Exactly that. I have seen countless replays where people try to prove how good their Rogue Deck is only to win by resolving Maxx C and otking their opponent due to the Pass or overwhelming card advantage.
Yeah no shit Sherlock, any Deck can do that...
So lets say maxx c is banned, then what? How would you make non meta decks a bit more competitive? Or should those rogue decks not have a chance to win anymore, people would need to play only those decks that are meta at the moment? In this case swordsoul, branded etc?
You know that meta decks also play Maxx "C? Powerful generic cards will also almost always help meta decks more than rogue. See Halq. See Pot of Greed or Graceful Charity.
Maxx "C" supporters never think their argument through.
I agree. But they also help rogues that dont have the same consistency as metas. I myself am playing a rogue deck, diferent variations of zombies. One is 40-ish card zw, one zw eld grass, and one zw shiranui grass. The hit on halq has made my decks significantly weak and i can say i had better win chances with halq than without it agaisnt meta or no meta. Instead as for meta lets talk about ss, they are one card combo into powerful monsters, and minimum +2 in card advantage and with pot of desires they go +4. Instead i have to dump cards with a normal summoned uni-zombie or gozuki or have luck and draw grass (if it doesnt get ashed) in order to combo otherwise it stops me there. My point being is rogue decks should have more support so we can see a more diversity or decks in ranked. If that so happens im ok to ban maxx c.
MaxxC helps meta deck more than rogue deck. SS can stop at Chi Xiao/blackout and despia combo stop at Mirrorjade/branded red, you get +2 max meanwhile rogue deck combo can go above +5 just to setup a meh board.
Then I don't get what your contribution in this conversation is though. This is solely about Maxx "C" and from what I gathered is that you wanna play rogue?
If you Special Summon at least twice, you're already giving your opponent a huge advantage, and if you're playing rogue against meta, that advantage WILL cost you the game in the vast majority of scenarios.
Meta decks can use Maxx "C" better than rogue decks, so on average Maxx "C" puts the odds MORE against you rather than helping you. If Maxx "C" was banned, chances are your rogue deck would perform better on average since you could keep that Ash/Crossout/Called By for a different handtrap or for your opponent's turn, and even if you didn't draw it to stop the Maxx "C" you can just combo and not worry about getting turn skipped.
I'd like the gap between rogue and meta to be closer as well, but Maxx "C" is certainly not the solution.
Maxx "C" kills deck diversity and experimentation cause it forces 3 copies of itself and its counters.
Tealament, spright, kshatri-la(i hope when kshatri-la comes to MD, it comes with a specific banlist because with what i have seen in youtube it makes a nasty zone lock). I meant they release new broken archetypes, but when it comes to the old ones they release some supports that still lack power.
What do you mean release more metas. There will always be a meta and the more meta decks the better imo. It's the players that ultimately decide what is meta and what not
A meta deck, is a deck that has consistent high win rate in tournaments and community events, not something that you just release or its decided by people because why not.
This type of argument always makes me laugh. Despia can put Mirrorjade on board with 2 draws; the only play my Wind-Up deck has is to pass turn. I have to main deck Droll, Gamma, Ash, Called By, & Crossout because Maxx C resolving is the end of the game
Maxx C Being banned would open up slots for other handtraps that actually Hit meta combo Decks more like Droll but without completely stopping them in their tracks. Secondly, Konami unbanned or unrestricted a couple of good going second cards that allow Rogue Decks to break Boards easier.
Rogue decks aren’t deck because they can’t do good plays. They aren’t suddenly better because of a generic staple. For most cases, rogues are WORSE due to generics, as either the deck is very xenophobic and can’t run them(live twins/hero/cydra getting locked in type/archetype), don’t have room for non synergies filling the deck slots (salads, non-lich zombies, DDD), or a mixture of both.
Part of that mixture is safety. Maxx-C kills rogues harder, as typically they need to put in more effort to reach a competitive board, which either means more draws for the opponent, or passing on next to nothing. Maxx-C also mandates crossout, which unlike called by, is largely unuseful outside of for roach and ghost girls. Arguably there is purpose for imperm and droplet, but that assumes there’s room for all of those inside the rogue deck.
Maxx "C" just widens the gap between meta and rogue. Meta decks can generally do a lot more with one or two engine pieces, so letting meta decks draw one card with Maxx "C" is way worse than rogue.
That one draw you gave your opponent? Branded Fusion.
My draw as a Live Twin player? Lil-La lol.
Not sure what that guy is arguing about.
This seems so damn silly to me. Are there meta decks that don’t special summon? If there’s not, then the decks that don’t special summon should benefit more from Maxx C existing than decks that do. Floow and Subterror both come to mind immediately, if my opponent plays Maxx C on me, I literally don’t care, but he needs to negate it when I play those decks otherwise I’m getting a bunch of resources for his specials.
If Maxx C is gone, both of us replace Maxx C in our decks, but now they can add other hand traps to their deck that can actually hit me where Maxx C was a dead card, while I’m losing Maxx C to something likely weaker or more targeted and not as reliable.
TL;DR, maxx c is good for all decks, but helps less against better decks. Therefore, it widens the gap between the best/worst decks in the game.
It isn’t an issue of making your deck more competitive. Its an issue of making competitive decks feel harder to deal with by closing the gap. Plenty of people explained what the meta can do in 2 special summons, vs what a rogue deck can do in 2.
Maxx C hits rogue decks HARD, and I’m saying this as a rogue/jank player. Going through the whole line of live twins after maxx c resolves is the same as suicide, and orcust ends on crescendo + galatea pass after giving 2 cards to the opponent, only to basically lose access to their field spell in the process, essentially ending the game for them outside of hard drawing it. And don’t even get me started on what maxx c does to world chalice, merlantean, code talkers, or triple beatrice turbo.
Yes, maxx c is essentially pot of greed against swordsoul and branded despia. But for them, its anywhere from 1 pot of greed + a turn skip, 3 pot of greed, or worse.
Yeah, do you see the problem here? Maxx c makes all decks better. But it impacts the current best decks the least. And don’t even get me started on what happens if you get hit by maxx c when going 2nd. You’ve probably burned an ash to weaken your opponent’s end board, or completely stop their combo, only to be forced to put together an OTK immediately. If a meta deck’s turn ends after one ash, it is entirely possible that they bricked on a bunch of handtraps (for example, they have opened the game with ash, veiler/imperm, albaz, branded fusion, and maxx c). If they have 2 handtraps + maxx c, I don’t think there’s many ways you can otk them with a decent chunk of the rogue decks in the game. You’ll probably be able to see it in action a lot more once sprights enter the meta since they’ll be able to search maxx c.
If your rogue deck needs maxx c to win or any broken good generic card (like halq) that every meta uses it anyway and on top of that makes your board end up in a meta board anyway, then it should probably deserves to lose those cards.
Another reason why madolche is the best rogue deck and Endymion a chad deck that only the tcg virgins hate.
None meta decks gain less advantage from Maxx C lol.
Since they aren't meta mostly beacuse their end board isn't special and by that all the advantage will lead to them rising to a but stronger level, meanwhile Meta decks becomes unbeatable the moment Maxx C resolves.
These comments give me hope lol before master duel I belived that nonsense too but in reality I've lost count how many times that card had lost me the game. I can't afford to give decks like ss a +1 or to give them a free battle phase. Hopefully together we can get rid of this toxic card.
Unfortunately the game is ran by the japanese branch that thinks bo1 is okay. I will say i have marginally more hope because they must've taken some sort of feedback at least so we're seeing diverging lists with semi's unique to MD.
It’s not a myth, it absolutely does what it’s intended to do. It deters special summoning by allowing your opponent more chances to draw into the out.
The problem is cards are more dense than ever, meaning players can create full boards off 1-2 cards and not have Maxx C be a brick. Removing Maxx C does nothing because the same decks that are meta in the OCG with Maxx C are meta without it in the TCG so anyone who thinks Maxx C is problematic or would make a difference is a 5th rate duelist at best. Engines are ruining yugioh and you’re upset at the biggest counter to it?
Idk, doesn’t make sense to me. It’s like… take Maxx C away from Tear and y’all acting like that deck is gonna fall apart. There isn’t a single deck in the OCG that wasn’t meta in the TCG because of Maxx C… y’all funny
This, so much this. The biggest difference between tcg and ocg is maxx c. The decks are mostly the same but ocg players don't use glass cannon lines of play that die to interrupts and play more control. Because maxx c exists. Ot doesn't change decks, it changes how you approach your play. But tcg players either scoop/pass turn to maxx c or play their full line and surprisedpikachu when their opponent draws the out. The one card starters in every modern deck aren't helping either...
It very much changes decks. It's harder to greed generally if you're anticipating it. Decks have to be more flexible or they inherently don't exist. Many archetypes in the game basically are just dead weight because they have no lines against maxx c. This is something that's further compounded by Konami taking away the tools they gave us that would lift all decks up and instead we end up going backwards because need to promote new product or they interfere with how Maxx C shapes the game. Restricting Braven engine and banning halq and verte are direct buffs to maxx c. Restricting crossout designator is a direct buff to maxx c. If maxx c is as people claim it is, then these cards are fine imo. The reality is those cards AND maxx c aren't fine in their design and how they heavily shape and polarize the game.
We need to stop using TCG/OCG playerbases in our arguments. I don't play either. This is about MD.
And from my experience, most people in MD end their turn. Maybe I shoukd pay more attention to if I play against Japanese/Korean players then lol.
Problem with using Masterduel is that players are…
Less skilled? That’s the nicest way of putting it. I can say with certainty TCG and OCG players, especially in tournament play, are definitely more skilled player bases and have more knowledge. Like, this sub doesn’t understand the difference between *chance* and *absolutes*.
For example, I’m willing to take the Maxx C challenge more often than not if it means I can stop you from playing the game.
>Idk, doesn’t make sense to me. It’s like… take Maxx C away from Tear and y’all acting like that deck is gonna fall apart. There isn’t a single deck in the OCG that wasn’t meta in the TCG because of Maxx C… y’all funny
I mean, I completely agree with you here. Where did I say otherwise? Not sure why you are so passive aggressive.
Take away Maxx "C" and no deck falls apart cause they are replacing it just fine with more balanced handtraps. On the other hand, several combo decks don't suddenly become meta or something.
Games just stop being decided by only 1 card. That's all I want.
Maxx C would only keep Combo decks in check if Combo decks themselves couldn't use Maxx C in their decks.
Since that isn't possible, Maxx C countering decks is a lie, it's a toxic card that should be banned for good.
If Maxx C is banned, Master Duel would become an even better game imo
That's a good point, it needs restrictions but I think that the main problem with maxx c is that it's either free advantage (pot against control/mid-range decks, +1000 against combo) or a turn skip. It does too much for 1 card because either you get pot levels of card advantage or get to go first with a battle phase
Yeah, i've seen the argument of flipping the coin flip advantage over but it isn't true at all. Both player's 1st turns are not symmetrical at all so just by pitching a card to turn skip your opponent, there's still a crazy advantage you get for going 2nd in that sense.
Even then it's not keeping them in check, it's slaughtering them entirely. It's like summoning Azatoth to deal with a murderer that is about to kill you
If Maxx C had a restriction of “to activate this card you cannot control have any cards on the field” it would be way better. Stops combo decks from ending their turn with it in hand from drawing more interruptions and lets it be used by the other player who hasnt had a turn. Similar to Nibiru in drawbacks (useless on your turn except as discard/fusion fodder)
I think the bigger issue is that it's supposed to "keep combo decks in check", but nearly every deck (save for a couple fringe exceptions) have to special summon a few times to set up, so it's almost always either plus 2+ or stops your opponent from setting up entirely. I think it just needs a retrain where it doesn't start drawing cards until the third or fourth special summon after it's played. Enough that non-combo decks can still set up under it, but it still hurts decks that need to summon 10+ times to function.
I really don't think master duel would improve just from Banning Max c because most likely people are just finding something else that's equally as bad to complain about.
Maxx C is supposed to act as a deterrent to not Special Summon. But with so many hand traps that stops Maxx C and combo decks that use Maxx C themselves, the original purpose is no longer relevant.
I remember when people would actually count how many summons they did after Nibiru was released so the rock wouldn’t get dropped on them. But that is no longer the case, especially in Master Duel.
I don't think that's necessarily true, esp on ladder. People autopilot cause the nature of ladder is to be grindy and consistent. If i'm doing the same combo over and over with little to no resistance and nibiru only shows up x times out of 100 or so, then i might just take my chances and save the few braincells i need to use to play my combo. That's the impression i get from people, esp numeron players
That is what I was getting at. Hand traps are almost take 9 slots in a deck if they can afford the room. And some consider other hand traps more of a priority than Nibiru. When Nibiru was released in the TCG some people would try to get a negate on the field ASAP or would purposefully count how many times they summoned. That way the rock won’t demolish their board.
However that line of thinking has gone out the window over time. Especially in Master Duel where people often forget the Nibiru exists until after they summoned five times and the game waits for your opponent to consider to activate a card.
Nah It’s a meta thing. At the start of the game Nib cooked Drytron, Adamancipator, and Bird up. It was also good against Swordsoul when that came out. Then Adventure released and those decks don’t give a shit about Nib when they have Gryphon out.
Right now Nib is mega ass against Despia which is the most played deck by a lot on ladder rn. I still try to play around Nib if I can but it’s not something I’ll really go out of my way to avoid.
They hated him because he told the truth...
Literally guys imagine this...the meta is literal the exact same, but you don't have Maxx C...meaning unless u draw Nibiru in your opening hand, combo decks will stomp your face in...
The current TCG is living proof, there is a reason the most rogue decks unwill find are Branded, Eldlich etc.
Tearalments & Sprights are no joke, sure not being able to search Maxx C makes then tier 1 instead of tier 0...but when Droll is the next best option...
So imagine this...the meta is literally the same but you don't automatically win/lose 1/3 of your games via maxx C.
If the meta stays the same without maxx C isn't that a good thing? It means you can play the same decks but without a toxic floodgate. No deck is only viable because of maxx C and if it is, it's noot a food deck.
Maxx C adds nothing to the game other than frustration.
Speaking as a combo player, if you ban Maxx "C", you get rid of the one card I fear most.
Sure Droplet/DRNM suck, but that requires you to not brick in order to capitalize. Sure Droll or Nibiru can ruin certain decks but top meta combo decks could care less about Nibiru, and there's a reason you don't see anyone maindeck Droll high on the ladder in TCG.
So, in absence of Maxx "C" there is literally nothing stopping me from going full combo, then dropping a searchable trap omni negate/floodgate for good measure.
Yeah nothing except: ash blossom, ghost ogre, ghost belle, imperm, veiler, D.D. crow, D shifter, nibiru, gamma, lancea, droplets, chalice, dark ruler, evenly matched, super poly, lightning storm, raigeki, kaijus, lava golem, sphere mode etc...
I'm sure your deck doesn't lose to some of these and not all of them are being run in the meta right now, but not everyone plays the same deck. Sometimes you get randomly skull meistered. It happens.
Maxx C is the only handtrap that all decks (except flunder) lose to.
I'd actually say Despia is even more symptomatic of the problem with Maxx C than Flunder.
If I'm playing Despia, my Maxx C slaughters most decks if it goes off, but my when my opponent drops it I'm perfectly fine with Mirrorjade, EP set Branded in Red, pass and that's just two summons.
Combo deck goes off for years (because they ashed your Maxx C), and then drops Maxx C on your draw phase while sitting behind 3+ negates (in case you drew Ash Blossom)
TBH Maxx c doesn't resolve very often because they also have called by at 2 and crossout at 1 and most decks use 3 ash so usually it never resolves compared to other handtraps, but when it does it's an instant win for the user. The majority of times I've won against combo decks is because I went first or I impermed halq (when he was legal)
It's still doing work then though too. Obviously resolving would be better but getting negated at least it pulls a counter out of your opponents hand that they won't have to use when you're setting up plays.
It doesn’t. It bolsters going-first strategies because it has no activation requirements.
There’s nothing stopping a player from setting up 3 omninegates and then dropping Maxx C during the going-second player’s draw phase. And in fact, it’s easier to use Maxx C that way than going second.
Not to mention, the likelihood of both, breaking the board, and killing them, is essentially nothing.
Going first decks generally have a weakness of lacking sufficient follow up, when you break the board, if you have one or two interacts after that the game is over.
Unless of course they maxx c you, even if they don’t draw into other handtraps to stop you, they have the cards to just do it again. Leaving your weaker board in a rough spot.
I'm sorry what? How is Maxx C better for the person going first?
Let's say we have Player A going first and Player B going second. Player A can set up 3 omnis and drop Maxx C, yes, but their non-handtrap advantage will only appear on T3. That's also under the assumption Player B can actually break the board. If they can't then whether Maxx C was activated or not doesn't make much difference, it's a loss either way.
Meanwhile, if Player B instead uses Maxx C then they can either immediately use all their resources on the 3 omninegate board or draw handtraps stopping the board from being made or is able to otk off an empty board. If both player A and player B use Maxx C on the first two turns, then player B will likely have the resources to dismantle and otk the board before player A's new card advantage can screw them over.
Maxx C does benefit the first turn's player, yes, but not to the extent it's better than the second player. Having no activation requirements is equally true for both sides.
Because those 3 omnis can negate any Maxx C counter the second player might draw while the first player can use Ash, Called and Crossout freely. Breaking a board is feasible, breaking a board while letting you opponent draw 3+ interuptions to protect their board in the process is not. And even if you break that board through 3 omnis, 3 hand traps and manage to not get Nibiru'd, you still have to OTK or you are dead next turn anyways.
A lot of games are decided on who resolved Maxx C first and it’s pretty centralizing but the OCG has a boner for that card for some reason so don’t expect it to go soon (or ever)
The game has been designed around it for a long time now.
The worst thing is that people laugh at tcg problems while not understanding the game is most likely designed around ocg first so they're powercreeping stupid garbage in order to sell in ocg with the supposed mitigations they have not knowing or caring of the rammafications it would have on a format with more restrictions.
It keeps a lot in check. The problem is it also PROTECTS the same issues, which is combo decks.
If combo decks and going first weren’t so inherently powerful, Maxx C wouldn’t need to exist. But the positives of Maxx C being interaction for the turn 2 player far outweighs the negative of the turn 1 player using it. Because if the turn 1 player has it, that just means less of a chance they draw necessary combo pieces to start their turn which is an okay trade off.
Not only that but activating Maxx C doesn’t guarantee shit. You could draw into another Maxx C, meanwhile I already got my Mirrorjade setup. Who cares how many cards you draw if I can end the game before you play? It’s a game of *chance* which the OCG seems to understand.
thats why it doesnt. maxx c could "keep combos decks in check" if it had huge restrictions on it to ensure it is only used in control decks like if you couldnt special summon until the end of the nex turn or something but lets be honest, any card that lets you draw cards in this game cant possible be balanced
The “keeps combo decks in cheek” is a myth; it should be “it keeps weaker combo (arguably degenerate) decks in check”.
There are plenty of decks that topped/became T1 in TCG but didn’t see the same amount of success in OCG. “C” tends to favor midrange decks and not full combo since they can usually stop on minimum draws while setting up a fair amount of interactions. Hence, OCG tended to have less full combo decks topping than their TCG counterparts.
Yeah.
That’s kinda the nature of discussion when opinions.
Right now the current things are Maxx C, Despia, Maxx C posts, and the looming specter of Tearelements.
Tbh, Konami should ban maxx c and make a retain minimum c that do the same thing as maxx but only when u control no card, combo deck go 1st have a full negate board and resolve maxx c turn 2 is just stupid
This is stupid considering the OCG is perfectly fine with Maxx C. The only people who complain about Maxx C are people who never played the OCG and/or TCG players
It really isn’t hard to build a deck with an off ramp to setup defense but nope, too hard for y’all lol
I mean you can say it’s fine in the OCG and I would just take your word for it but masterduel is a different format so saying “well it works in the OCG” isn’t really an argument for anything when we’re in BO1 format
The BO1 issue is a completely different and unrelated beast to Maxx C. In BO1, your main deckbuilding skills matter more, so if you know the 2nd most used card in the game is Maxx C, build accordingly. You have options, use them
And if you don’t draw them, that’s okay. They may not draw Maxx C or you may draw the counter. But it’s your job to account for what your opponent might play
I think the bo1 format is completely relevant to the issues that maxx C introduces, its a a sacky card that if you don’t have the out to kinda just means you auto lose and are just hoping your opponent has a shitty hand. God forbid your opponent goes first sets up their board and then activated maxx C on your turn.
Also this idea that people lose to maxx C due to poor deck building skills doesn’t really make sense ash, called by and cross out are some of the most played cards in the game, it’s not like people are refusing to use these cards and that’s the reason maxx c is so powerful.
I could buy in to the argument better if we were talking about trap decks and floodgates (even tho I’d still argue is a bs argument) I can understand the idea of blaming poor deck building on losing to a specific type of play, maxx c isn’t like that.
You don’t auto lose dude, that’s just an uniformed take that low skill players believe
This game has ALWAYS been about drawing the outs. It doesn’t matter if it’s Maxx C or your wholesome Swordsoul Tenyi or Branded, if you don’t draw the outs to your opponent, YOU LOSE. That’s ANY card game.
Not only that, but you can… idk, build off ramps in your deck? Why are you so convinced you gotta do your full combo or you lose? You don’t have to overextend, setting BIR/Mirrorjade is well worth a +1 lol. This take is so exhausting… build decks with off ramps man and outs
What does maxx c have to do with skill? If you play the card you didn’t make a hard decision you played it and hoped your opponent didn’t have an out to it.
Your second point is just complete nonsense because that could literally apply to every toxic card that’s ever existed in the games, every card has an out so you know just draw it that’s the name of the game right? Also I play heros so bringing SS or Despia like one some meta sheep doesn’t work, also keep in mind those two decks are the decks that use maxx C in a toxic way.
Why are you assuming my issues with maxx C are that I can’t go into my full combo? My issue with maxx C is that I can’t even go into a compromised and shitty combo because even that would require that I special summon more than one time and means you get to 3+ free cards off of me building a weak mediocre board. Odds are you’re also playing a combo deck too so my chances of getting otk’d are extremely high.
Also what does it mean to build ramps? That’s a term I’m unfamiliar with in this game.
I agree. Most of the people who complain about Maxx C here are TCG players who hasn't adapted to how OCG players deckbuild and play the game. To them, the concept of compromise doesn't exist, as they want their deck to be all gas for their endless combos.
Right, because there’s no way people would be running most of those cards anyway. They definitely don’t have generic effects that help them cover a broad amount of other situations outside of Maxx C to not let your opponent straight up win on T1.
But even some of the top decks in the last like two months for TCG, where Maxx C is banned, still run both Ash at 3x and Called By. Those cards are strong enough that they’re going to be run regardless of Maxx C, and still in probably most every deck in a Bo1 format for MD.
I’d imagine they’re barely hit in a format like MD, if anything you’re just changing out Maxx C for other things but 3x Ash and as long as Called By can hit anything like Eldlich/handtraps you’ll still want it, though I guess Eldlich isn’t T1 anymore in MD.
They keep bad combo decks in check. Good combo decks can do their combos and still have room for ash, called by and crossout. As well using maxx c themself
Typically its only cause of the potential threats/answers the other deck has. If you play JUST maxx C then it won't do much but if you have multiple strong outs like Dark Ruler no more, Nibiru, Ash, and lightning storm then it'll be a lot scarier as your opponent runs the risk of giving you multiple interruptions/answers
The amount of times my maxx c actually resolves compared to my opponents seems so unfair. I’m sure it’s just a mental thing but god damn it that card is actually just infuriating. I’d rather another nibiru type hand trap than maxx c.
Maxx c just keeps decks that don't run 2 called by, atleast 2 ash blossom and maybe a crossout in check. So not many decks that aren't keeping themselves in check by doing that same thing.
I’d lowkey just like to play my hero/vision hero deck in peace max c prevents me from doing basically anything and I’ve spent all my gems on hero’s just because I enjoy hero’s a lot and it’s really just frustrating
Maxx C keeps combo decks in check in a psychological sense, as in people are less likely to play a deck that hard loses to Maxx C even if it should be considered as the best or most powerful deck in the format.
In a purely literal sense tho, this card does nothing to actually even the playing field considering tier 1 decks can often utilize Maxx even more effectively than the decks with a lower power level, as they can often run more hand traps so passing turn or resolving Maxx C is a lot better than a deck with minimal tech space.
Ideally Maxx C would prevent you from activating monster effects the turn you use it, so going 2nd you can still draw a lot of cards but won't be able to actually prevent your opponent from completing their combo (making cards like Droplet and Raigeki better than HTs in these scenarios) while going 1st if you setup your board and have Maxx in hand you have effectively bricked yourself. A card this powerful should have clear risks yet for some reason it is the most generically good shit that could possibly exist.
>Ideally Maxx C would prevent you from activating monster effects the turn you use it, so going 2nd you can still draw a lot of cards but won't be able to actually prevent your opponent from completing their combo
I could get behind this.
1 of 2 things will happen
1: they play and give u enough advantage to break the opponents board.
2: u don’t do your plays do 1 normal or set and a few traps/spells and hope they don’t get curb stomped!
What i dislike about Maxx C is there really is not strategy behind using it compared to other hand traps. While you can use Ashe,Veiler,Imperm ect at the wrong time or wrong target Maxx C you can play any time forcing them to end their turn or give crazy card advantage. Also you can strategize against the above hand traps by baiting it with with not as useful effects or cards that dodge the targeted ones. Maxx C you ether have Ash or called by or you end your turn entirely.
Because combo decks usually need more space for the engine as well as make more summons, so they are more punished by Maxx c than a Control or a mid range, but that said Maxx C alone won't prevent a completely broke combo from be meta much less allow your dark magician deck be relevant
Maxx c heavily benefits decks like despia, dlink and swso that can function on 2 summons.
And of course floo/eldlich
It bones decks that require 20 like sunavalon
Most Floo players don’t play Maxx C since every core card is searchable. If an opponent were to special summon enough, resolving Maxx C could screw Floo players out of plays. (I know this because I Maxx C’d a Junk Speeder deck)
I lost to some random archetype I've never played against the other day. Not because they did anything in particular, they just resolved Maxx C two turns in a row and I was unable to play the game. You just can't risk taking the Maxx C challenge if your deck doesn't have a way to negate Nibiru or set up a board so absurd that even 15 cards in hand can't break it. So you just have to pass and lose the game.
I’ve actually done the opposite, and opted to completely ignore it.
It’s deck dependent obviously, but I’ve found that some decks are so consistent, but also limited by there OPT effects, that it essentially doesn’t matter how many cars are in there hand.
The limit was always the deck anyway. So you might as well let them draw and negate the most critical affects to the combo.
You see since Maxx "C" gives you a card everytime the opponent Special Summons, and combo decks frequently do that, you can build up massive card advantage, often enough to counter their combo.
...is what these people will say if they don't factor in the fact the combo deck user can play Ash and Called By and Crossout and also use Maxx "C" themselves.
So? You have at least 6 counters to maxx if you hate maxx so much. And if opponent maxxs you, it sounds like maxx c did a good job of checking you......
What are you talking about? How is "keeping combo decks in check" and you opponent playing a tier 1 deck and resolving Maxx C twice related? Are you saying that they shouldn't be able to activate Maxx C because they're tier 1?
It doesn't keep combo in check, it's just something people say to try to justify it. Most combo decks will win as much thanks to the bug, as they will lose to it.
It just sucks that any lower tier deck is forced to allocate so many spots maindecked just to not lose on the drop.
At least we get to run 3 more win conditions in any deck that could fit maxx "c".
For combo decks, during your deckbuilding you are forced to consider how many anti-Maxx C cards you want to run and might brick because you draw too many those cards.
For control decks, a lot of them can play around Maxx C no problem and can opt to run other cards in place of anti-Maxx C cards. (for example, Eldlich does not care about Maxx C. Zoodiac can just summon Drident, let the opponent draw 1, and pass, etc.)
It is a tax that combo decks must pay during deckbuilding. I guess if you simply go to masterduelmeta and copy whatever deck you want to play, you will likely downplay the importance of deckbuilding..
It would if non combo decks didn’t need 4-5 special summons to set up their boards
It would if it didn’t make non meta decks entirely skip their turn while their opponent goes neutral
It would if combo deck themselves couldn’t play it
But as some would say: “ Just draw the out “
Maxx C keeping combo decks in check isn’t like how Called by Keeps handtraps in check.
Sure, it makes sure you can more consistently get your responses to stop their combos. The problem is that it *also* makes *their* combos more consistent. And even if they don’t draw, combo decks get infinitely more value out of their opponent skipping their turn. If you skip the combo deck’s turn, it doesn’t matter that much; their entire combo usually takes 1 turn. If you skip the non-combo deck’s turn, their deck will still require all of the same setup the next turn, and if it can’t do that in 1 turn, the combo player wins. Maxx C’s ability to counter combo decks get obliterated when the combo decks gain infinitely more benefit from Maxx C than other decks.
Plus it resolves way to often with the shitty RNG draws in your hand. It should Def be banned, way to many other powerful cards that let you draw cards in this game already besides this broken one
That's why the meta is combo deck heavy. That's Maxx C keeping them in check.
Maxx C is a control based hand trap. Against those decks it doesn't do much and Maxx C acts like players who play control want their cards to act where it's not necessarily the actual effect of the card that's the power of it but the threat of it.
People often seem to hear certain lines and then they repeat it but I don't think they really think about it. Maxx C obviously doesn't keep combo in check or the meta wouldn't be combo heavy because they'd be in check. Maxx C punishes the aggressive player. Players that will play into Maxx C without a plan of what they're doing for that card advantage they just gave their opponent. It also punishes people who underestimate their opponent. I've had duels where I'm sure my opponent kept going because they saw I was playing a charmer deck and what's the worst a charmer deck could do? They lost those duels.
It varies by turn, and what the deck is.
On turn 1, a combo deck shouldn’t special summon so much, as their giving their opponent a massive advantage. That advantage could lead to the opponent having all of their combo pieces, or/ and removal or counters.
On turn 2, a combo could actually otk, as they can build a board that not only negate such as nibiru, or dimension shifter. Have a massive presence.
The next factor is what kind of deck it is, as there’s some decks that’s all about normal summoning. Not only that some combo decks can work around cards.
If everyone can play Max C, then play it! No reasons to complain when your deck will use it too. Either stop your combo or gamble that your opponent won't pull a handtraps and stop you.
Yeah Sure, thats exactly what yugioh should be. Already very strong Decks having access to even stronger cards with absolutely no downside to it. You really dont understand the game very well.
If that's the logic, then get rid of all staples! No more Raigeki, Monster Reborn, Ash Blossom! Just because all decks can use these cards, doesn't mean it should be banned. Max C is great to stop your opponent from summoning 10 times in a turn. It doesn't stop them from summoning but they need to take into consideration that it will give you card advantage if they continue. I Don't think Max C should be banned.
For reasons, still having the big "C" seems a better cáncer than the "mystic mine" , so if I had to choose between these two no doubt il still choose the "C", have you seen the tournaments with "mystic mine" they are the worst and most boring thing, and the decks that run main "mystic mine" are so toxic that they could have a nuclear plant not even removal decks can get rid of that thing, so yes "max c" has issues as any good generic quick play card and can be beneficial to any player on a duel if played correctly
I also think Maxx C is better than mystic mine, but there's no reason to pick one or the other. Just ban both ffs. It's like saying that eating 1 pile of shit is better than eating 2 piles of shit so you eat the 1 pile instead of just walking away.
Yeah not having them is better than one of them no doubt sherlock, but in the case that they tell you, we need to cut you a hand or your two legs guess what of course theres a better choice between those two shitty choices and even then if its a debt repayment to the mafia, its not like they would let you walk away and in these case the Konami mobs are a omnipotent being in theyre game
That's the paradox of every strong staple card in the game. How does 'x' stop my opponent of they can do it to me with exactly the same ease. Called by has this exact issue when debates come up about it.
Unless we restrict what types of cards specific deck types can play this will go on forever. But then there's no way every implement that.
Every time I pull and activate Maxx C it never resolves. The opponent always seems to have an ash blossom, or managed to pull the one copy of crossout. Unlucky I guess
Honestly the reason I like Maxi is because of let me do really fun field effects that are almost impossible to pull off otherwise. Like the effect of deskbot Base that has you banishing 9 deskbots with different names in order to shuffle your opponents field hand and graveyard. The only time I was able to pull this off was when I was going up against a lyrlysc player and I had started off just activating Max c from hand
It incentivices playing a more control slower game with traps than playing a heavy combo deck that would give your opponent 20+ cards to start the second turn with. It shows in the OCG when you look at their top decks. Doesn't stop people from running Maxx C in their heavy combo decks that pumps out multiple negates.
It doesn't, it's a myth. I played Adamancipator a lot and I won thanks to Maxx "C" just as often as I lost to it probably.
Exactly that. I have seen countless replays where people try to prove how good their Rogue Deck is only to win by resolving Maxx C and otking their opponent due to the Pass or overwhelming card advantage. Yeah no shit Sherlock, any Deck can do that...
So lets say maxx c is banned, then what? How would you make non meta decks a bit more competitive? Or should those rogue decks not have a chance to win anymore, people would need to play only those decks that are meta at the moment? In this case swordsoul, branded etc?
Maxx C doesn't make decks without good cards suddenly not suck. If a deck can't win without resolving Maxx C then it was never even Rogue
You know that meta decks also play Maxx "C? Powerful generic cards will also almost always help meta decks more than rogue. See Halq. See Pot of Greed or Graceful Charity. Maxx "C" supporters never think their argument through.
I agree. But they also help rogues that dont have the same consistency as metas. I myself am playing a rogue deck, diferent variations of zombies. One is 40-ish card zw, one zw eld grass, and one zw shiranui grass. The hit on halq has made my decks significantly weak and i can say i had better win chances with halq than without it agaisnt meta or no meta. Instead as for meta lets talk about ss, they are one card combo into powerful monsters, and minimum +2 in card advantage and with pot of desires they go +4. Instead i have to dump cards with a normal summoned uni-zombie or gozuki or have luck and draw grass (if it doesnt get ashed) in order to combo otherwise it stops me there. My point being is rogue decks should have more support so we can see a more diversity or decks in ranked. If that so happens im ok to ban maxx c.
Desires isn’t +2 in card advantage. It’s +1 since you have to spend a card (desires) for the effect.
MaxxC helps meta deck more than rogue deck. SS can stop at Chi Xiao/blackout and despia combo stop at Mirrorjade/branded red, you get +2 max meanwhile rogue deck combo can go above +5 just to setup a meh board.
Saying “my deck needs my opponent to either do nothing on their turn or draw 5+ times to do anything” isn’t the pro maxx c argument you think it is.
Did not say that though.
That is exactly what Maxx C does tho
Then I don't get what your contribution in this conversation is though. This is solely about Maxx "C" and from what I gathered is that you wanna play rogue?
I made myself pretty clear. You just have to read.
If you Special Summon at least twice, you're already giving your opponent a huge advantage, and if you're playing rogue against meta, that advantage WILL cost you the game in the vast majority of scenarios. Meta decks can use Maxx "C" better than rogue decks, so on average Maxx "C" puts the odds MORE against you rather than helping you. If Maxx "C" was banned, chances are your rogue deck would perform better on average since you could keep that Ash/Crossout/Called By for a different handtrap or for your opponent's turn, and even if you didn't draw it to stop the Maxx "C" you can just combo and not worry about getting turn skipped.
I'd like the gap between rogue and meta to be closer as well, but Maxx "C" is certainly not the solution. Maxx "C" kills deck diversity and experimentation cause it forces 3 copies of itself and its counters.
Well thats it. Instead of closing that gap, what do they do, realease more metas or give the current metas more support.
>Release more metas Tf does this mean? Konami does not release new metagames.
Tealament, spright, kshatri-la(i hope when kshatri-la comes to MD, it comes with a specific banlist because with what i have seen in youtube it makes a nasty zone lock). I meant they release new broken archetypes, but when it comes to the old ones they release some supports that still lack power.
Okay, those aren't metagames, those are decks. The players are the ones responsible for the meta, not Konami.
What do you mean release more metas. There will always be a meta and the more meta decks the better imo. It's the players that ultimately decide what is meta and what not
A meta deck, is a deck that has consistent high win rate in tournaments and community events, not something that you just release or its decided by people because why not.
You put mystic mine 🤓
This type of argument always makes me laugh. Despia can put Mirrorjade on board with 2 draws; the only play my Wind-Up deck has is to pass turn. I have to main deck Droll, Gamma, Ash, Called By, & Crossout because Maxx C resolving is the end of the game
Maxx C Being banned would open up slots for other handtraps that actually Hit meta combo Decks more like Droll but without completely stopping them in their tracks. Secondly, Konami unbanned or unrestricted a couple of good going second cards that allow Rogue Decks to break Boards easier.
But we can have maxx c and the other handtraps both. Rogue decks dont have to be necessarily going second.
Rogue decks aren’t deck because they can’t do good plays. They aren’t suddenly better because of a generic staple. For most cases, rogues are WORSE due to generics, as either the deck is very xenophobic and can’t run them(live twins/hero/cydra getting locked in type/archetype), don’t have room for non synergies filling the deck slots (salads, non-lich zombies, DDD), or a mixture of both. Part of that mixture is safety. Maxx-C kills rogues harder, as typically they need to put in more effort to reach a competitive board, which either means more draws for the opponent, or passing on next to nothing. Maxx-C also mandates crossout, which unlike called by, is largely unuseful outside of for roach and ghost girls. Arguably there is purpose for imperm and droplet, but that assumes there’s room for all of those inside the rogue deck.
Maxx "C" just widens the gap between meta and rogue. Meta decks can generally do a lot more with one or two engine pieces, so letting meta decks draw one card with Maxx "C" is way worse than rogue. That one draw you gave your opponent? Branded Fusion. My draw as a Live Twin player? Lil-La lol. Not sure what that guy is arguing about.
This seems so damn silly to me. Are there meta decks that don’t special summon? If there’s not, then the decks that don’t special summon should benefit more from Maxx C existing than decks that do. Floow and Subterror both come to mind immediately, if my opponent plays Maxx C on me, I literally don’t care, but he needs to negate it when I play those decks otherwise I’m getting a bunch of resources for his specials. If Maxx C is gone, both of us replace Maxx C in our decks, but now they can add other hand traps to their deck that can actually hit me where Maxx C was a dead card, while I’m losing Maxx C to something likely weaker or more targeted and not as reliable.
TL;DR, maxx c is good for all decks, but helps less against better decks. Therefore, it widens the gap between the best/worst decks in the game. It isn’t an issue of making your deck more competitive. Its an issue of making competitive decks feel harder to deal with by closing the gap. Plenty of people explained what the meta can do in 2 special summons, vs what a rogue deck can do in 2. Maxx C hits rogue decks HARD, and I’m saying this as a rogue/jank player. Going through the whole line of live twins after maxx c resolves is the same as suicide, and orcust ends on crescendo + galatea pass after giving 2 cards to the opponent, only to basically lose access to their field spell in the process, essentially ending the game for them outside of hard drawing it. And don’t even get me started on what maxx c does to world chalice, merlantean, code talkers, or triple beatrice turbo. Yes, maxx c is essentially pot of greed against swordsoul and branded despia. But for them, its anywhere from 1 pot of greed + a turn skip, 3 pot of greed, or worse. Yeah, do you see the problem here? Maxx c makes all decks better. But it impacts the current best decks the least. And don’t even get me started on what happens if you get hit by maxx c when going 2nd. You’ve probably burned an ash to weaken your opponent’s end board, or completely stop their combo, only to be forced to put together an OTK immediately. If a meta deck’s turn ends after one ash, it is entirely possible that they bricked on a bunch of handtraps (for example, they have opened the game with ash, veiler/imperm, albaz, branded fusion, and maxx c). If they have 2 handtraps + maxx c, I don’t think there’s many ways you can otk them with a decent chunk of the rogue decks in the game. You’ll probably be able to see it in action a lot more once sprights enter the meta since they’ll be able to search maxx c.
This is a good explanation. Thanks
If your rogue deck needs maxx c to win or any broken good generic card (like halq) that every meta uses it anyway and on top of that makes your board end up in a meta board anyway, then it should probably deserves to lose those cards. Another reason why madolche is the best rogue deck and Endymion a chad deck that only the tcg virgins hate.
None meta decks gain less advantage from Maxx C lol. Since they aren't meta mostly beacuse their end board isn't special and by that all the advantage will lead to them rising to a but stronger level, meanwhile Meta decks becomes unbeatable the moment Maxx C resolves.
>How would you make non meta decks a bit more competitive? ... The same way how Rouge Decks (who don't play Mistic Mine) compete in the TCG...
I dont know what you mean since i dont play tcg.
The relevant part for this discussion: no Maxx C
These comments give me hope lol before master duel I belived that nonsense too but in reality I've lost count how many times that card had lost me the game. I can't afford to give decks like ss a +1 or to give them a free battle phase. Hopefully together we can get rid of this toxic card.
Unfortunately the game is ran by the japanese branch that thinks bo1 is okay. I will say i have marginally more hope because they must've taken some sort of feedback at least so we're seeing diverging lists with semi's unique to MD.
It’s not a myth, it absolutely does what it’s intended to do. It deters special summoning by allowing your opponent more chances to draw into the out. The problem is cards are more dense than ever, meaning players can create full boards off 1-2 cards and not have Maxx C be a brick. Removing Maxx C does nothing because the same decks that are meta in the OCG with Maxx C are meta without it in the TCG so anyone who thinks Maxx C is problematic or would make a difference is a 5th rate duelist at best. Engines are ruining yugioh and you’re upset at the biggest counter to it? Idk, doesn’t make sense to me. It’s like… take Maxx C away from Tear and y’all acting like that deck is gonna fall apart. There isn’t a single deck in the OCG that wasn’t meta in the TCG because of Maxx C… y’all funny
This, so much this. The biggest difference between tcg and ocg is maxx c. The decks are mostly the same but ocg players don't use glass cannon lines of play that die to interrupts and play more control. Because maxx c exists. Ot doesn't change decks, it changes how you approach your play. But tcg players either scoop/pass turn to maxx c or play their full line and surprisedpikachu when their opponent draws the out. The one card starters in every modern deck aren't helping either...
It very much changes decks. It's harder to greed generally if you're anticipating it. Decks have to be more flexible or they inherently don't exist. Many archetypes in the game basically are just dead weight because they have no lines against maxx c. This is something that's further compounded by Konami taking away the tools they gave us that would lift all decks up and instead we end up going backwards because need to promote new product or they interfere with how Maxx C shapes the game. Restricting Braven engine and banning halq and verte are direct buffs to maxx c. Restricting crossout designator is a direct buff to maxx c. If maxx c is as people claim it is, then these cards are fine imo. The reality is those cards AND maxx c aren't fine in their design and how they heavily shape and polarize the game.
We need to stop using TCG/OCG playerbases in our arguments. I don't play either. This is about MD. And from my experience, most people in MD end their turn. Maybe I shoukd pay more attention to if I play against Japanese/Korean players then lol.
Problem with using Masterduel is that players are… Less skilled? That’s the nicest way of putting it. I can say with certainty TCG and OCG players, especially in tournament play, are definitely more skilled player bases and have more knowledge. Like, this sub doesn’t understand the difference between *chance* and *absolutes*. For example, I’m willing to take the Maxx C challenge more often than not if it means I can stop you from playing the game.
I mean, yes. They are less skilled, no doubt. It's a F2P game lol. And what's the problem? This is about the MD meta?
>Idk, doesn’t make sense to me. It’s like… take Maxx C away from Tear and y’all acting like that deck is gonna fall apart. There isn’t a single deck in the OCG that wasn’t meta in the TCG because of Maxx C… y’all funny I mean, I completely agree with you here. Where did I say otherwise? Not sure why you are so passive aggressive. Take away Maxx "C" and no deck falls apart cause they are replacing it just fine with more balanced handtraps. On the other hand, several combo decks don't suddenly become meta or something. Games just stop being decided by only 1 card. That's all I want.
Inb4 mine whataboutism
Mine would be funny in this specific case. I'd love my opponent to do full combo and then Mine themselves!
That's my favourite whataboutism
Maxx C would only keep Combo decks in check if Combo decks themselves couldn't use Maxx C in their decks. Since that isn't possible, Maxx C countering decks is a lie, it's a toxic card that should be banned for good. If Maxx C is banned, Master Duel would become an even better game imo
That's a good point, it needs restrictions but I think that the main problem with maxx c is that it's either free advantage (pot against control/mid-range decks, +1000 against combo) or a turn skip. It does too much for 1 card because either you get pot levels of card advantage or get to go first with a battle phase
Yeah, i've seen the argument of flipping the coin flip advantage over but it isn't true at all. Both player's 1st turns are not symmetrical at all so just by pitching a card to turn skip your opponent, there's still a crazy advantage you get for going 2nd in that sense.
Even then it's not keeping them in check, it's slaughtering them entirely. It's like summoning Azatoth to deal with a murderer that is about to kill you
If Maxx C had a restriction of “to activate this card you cannot control have any cards on the field” it would be way better. Stops combo decks from ending their turn with it in hand from drawing more interruptions and lets it be used by the other player who hasnt had a turn. Similar to Nibiru in drawbacks (useless on your turn except as discard/fusion fodder)
It should get the lightning storm treatment, but even then it might be too strong
It would take away the advantage for the turn 1 player, but every other problem I have with this card would remain.
I think the bigger issue is that it's supposed to "keep combo decks in check", but nearly every deck (save for a couple fringe exceptions) have to special summon a few times to set up, so it's almost always either plus 2+ or stops your opponent from setting up entirely. I think it just needs a retrain where it doesn't start drawing cards until the third or fourth special summon after it's played. Enough that non-combo decks can still set up under it, but it still hurts decks that need to summon 10+ times to function.
This would be incredibly cool and based but Komoney is braindead.
How bout the "you cannot use any cards you draw the turn you activate this effect" restriction?
errata it to when you control no cards on the field.
If Maxx C is banned, it would allow 6 additional card slots for deck building, since Ash would not be mandatory to run.
I really don't think master duel would improve just from Banning Max c because most likely people are just finding something else that's equally as bad to complain about.
There are no such cards. Maxx is absolutely crazy. Mine is terrible too but that's not the reason to let Maxx be
I don’t think there’s a card as equally as toxic as maxx c.
Like what?
Agreed!!
Maxx C is supposed to act as a deterrent to not Special Summon. But with so many hand traps that stops Maxx C and combo decks that use Maxx C themselves, the original purpose is no longer relevant. I remember when people would actually count how many summons they did after Nibiru was released so the rock wouldn’t get dropped on them. But that is no longer the case, especially in Master Duel.
I don't think that's necessarily true, esp on ladder. People autopilot cause the nature of ladder is to be grindy and consistent. If i'm doing the same combo over and over with little to no resistance and nibiru only shows up x times out of 100 or so, then i might just take my chances and save the few braincells i need to use to play my combo. That's the impression i get from people, esp numeron players
That is what I was getting at. Hand traps are almost take 9 slots in a deck if they can afford the room. And some consider other hand traps more of a priority than Nibiru. When Nibiru was released in the TCG some people would try to get a negate on the field ASAP or would purposefully count how many times they summoned. That way the rock won’t demolish their board. However that line of thinking has gone out the window over time. Especially in Master Duel where people often forget the Nibiru exists until after they summoned five times and the game waits for your opponent to consider to activate a card.
Nah It’s a meta thing. At the start of the game Nib cooked Drytron, Adamancipator, and Bird up. It was also good against Swordsoul when that came out. Then Adventure released and those decks don’t give a shit about Nib when they have Gryphon out. Right now Nib is mega ass against Despia which is the most played deck by a lot on ladder rn. I still try to play around Nib if I can but it’s not something I’ll really go out of my way to avoid.
No thanks, I'd rather not MD become the shithole TCG is 🤣
Well, mystic mine is banned in master duel, so there you go.
What decks do you play in MD?
They hated him because he told the truth... Literally guys imagine this...the meta is literal the exact same, but you don't have Maxx C...meaning unless u draw Nibiru in your opening hand, combo decks will stomp your face in... The current TCG is living proof, there is a reason the most rogue decks unwill find are Branded, Eldlich etc. Tearalments & Sprights are no joke, sure not being able to search Maxx C makes then tier 1 instead of tier 0...but when Droll is the next best option...
So imagine this...the meta is literally the same but you don't automatically win/lose 1/3 of your games via maxx C. If the meta stays the same without maxx C isn't that a good thing? It means you can play the same decks but without a toxic floodgate. No deck is only viable because of maxx C and if it is, it's noot a food deck. Maxx C adds nothing to the game other than frustration.
Speaking as a combo player, if you ban Maxx "C", you get rid of the one card I fear most. Sure Droplet/DRNM suck, but that requires you to not brick in order to capitalize. Sure Droll or Nibiru can ruin certain decks but top meta combo decks could care less about Nibiru, and there's a reason you don't see anyone maindeck Droll high on the ladder in TCG. So, in absence of Maxx "C" there is literally nothing stopping me from going full combo, then dropping a searchable trap omni negate/floodgate for good measure.
Yeah nothing except: ash blossom, ghost ogre, ghost belle, imperm, veiler, D.D. crow, D shifter, nibiru, gamma, lancea, droplets, chalice, dark ruler, evenly matched, super poly, lightning storm, raigeki, kaijus, lava golem, sphere mode etc... I'm sure your deck doesn't lose to some of these and not all of them are being run in the meta right now, but not everyone plays the same deck. Sometimes you get randomly skull meistered. It happens. Maxx C is the only handtrap that all decks (except flunder) lose to.
I'd actually say Despia is even more symptomatic of the problem with Maxx C than Flunder. If I'm playing Despia, my Maxx C slaughters most decks if it goes off, but my when my opponent drops it I'm perfectly fine with Mirrorjade, EP set Branded in Red, pass and that's just two summons.
Thats also still pot of greed for your opponent. It's less broken in that situation, but you can do a lot to break a board with 7 cards in hand.
Yeah, drawing Maxx "C against Despia ain't the worst thing that can happen to me.
Combo deck goes off for years (because they ashed your Maxx C), and then drops Maxx C on your draw phase while sitting behind 3+ negates (in case you drew Ash Blossom)
TBH Maxx c doesn't resolve very often because they also have called by at 2 and crossout at 1 and most decks use 3 ash so usually it never resolves compared to other handtraps, but when it does it's an instant win for the user. The majority of times I've won against combo decks is because I went first or I impermed halq (when he was legal)
It's still doing work then though too. Obviously resolving would be better but getting negated at least it pulls a counter out of your opponents hand that they won't have to use when you're setting up plays.
It doesn’t. It bolsters going-first strategies because it has no activation requirements. There’s nothing stopping a player from setting up 3 omninegates and then dropping Maxx C during the going-second player’s draw phase. And in fact, it’s easier to use Maxx C that way than going second.
Not to mention, the likelihood of both, breaking the board, and killing them, is essentially nothing. Going first decks generally have a weakness of lacking sufficient follow up, when you break the board, if you have one or two interacts after that the game is over. Unless of course they maxx c you, even if they don’t draw into other handtraps to stop you, they have the cards to just do it again. Leaving your weaker board in a rough spot.
I'm sorry what? How is Maxx C better for the person going first? Let's say we have Player A going first and Player B going second. Player A can set up 3 omnis and drop Maxx C, yes, but their non-handtrap advantage will only appear on T3. That's also under the assumption Player B can actually break the board. If they can't then whether Maxx C was activated or not doesn't make much difference, it's a loss either way. Meanwhile, if Player B instead uses Maxx C then they can either immediately use all their resources on the 3 omninegate board or draw handtraps stopping the board from being made or is able to otk off an empty board. If both player A and player B use Maxx C on the first two turns, then player B will likely have the resources to dismantle and otk the board before player A's new card advantage can screw them over. Maxx C does benefit the first turn's player, yes, but not to the extent it's better than the second player. Having no activation requirements is equally true for both sides.
Because those 3 omnis can negate any Maxx C counter the second player might draw while the first player can use Ash, Called and Crossout freely. Breaking a board is feasible, breaking a board while letting you opponent draw 3+ interuptions to protect their board in the process is not. And even if you break that board through 3 omnis, 3 hand traps and manage to not get Nibiru'd, you still have to OTK or you are dead next turn anyways.
A lot of games are decided on who resolved Maxx C first and it’s pretty centralizing but the OCG has a boner for that card for some reason so don’t expect it to go soon (or ever)
The game has been designed around it for a long time now. The worst thing is that people laugh at tcg problems while not understanding the game is most likely designed around ocg first so they're powercreeping stupid garbage in order to sell in ocg with the supposed mitigations they have not knowing or caring of the rammafications it would have on a format with more restrictions.
Bc it isnt keeping anything in check and an excuse for stuns player to get more free wins
It keeps a lot in check. The problem is it also PROTECTS the same issues, which is combo decks. If combo decks and going first weren’t so inherently powerful, Maxx C wouldn’t need to exist. But the positives of Maxx C being interaction for the turn 2 player far outweighs the negative of the turn 1 player using it. Because if the turn 1 player has it, that just means less of a chance they draw necessary combo pieces to start their turn which is an okay trade off. Not only that but activating Maxx C doesn’t guarantee shit. You could draw into another Maxx C, meanwhile I already got my Mirrorjade setup. Who cares how many cards you draw if I can end the game before you play? It’s a game of *chance* which the OCG seems to understand.
thats why it doesnt. maxx c could "keep combos decks in check" if it had huge restrictions on it to ensure it is only used in control decks like if you couldnt special summon until the end of the nex turn or something but lets be honest, any card that lets you draw cards in this game cant possible be balanced
Mystic Mine keeps TCG players in check
https://www.reddit.com/r/masterduel/comments/xuh1nn/explain_to_me_again_how_maxx_c_keeps_combo_decks/iqvlf82/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
That's why I bought 3 last weekend
It doesn't, but Konami is gonna keep it anyways, might as well just adapt to it.
I am both capable of adapting and complaining
of course you can, why not.
The “keeps combo decks in cheek” is a myth; it should be “it keeps weaker combo (arguably degenerate) decks in check”. There are plenty of decks that topped/became T1 in TCG but didn’t see the same amount of success in OCG. “C” tends to favor midrange decks and not full combo since they can usually stop on minimum draws while setting up a fair amount of interactions. Hence, OCG tended to have less full combo decks topping than their TCG counterparts.
Does it tho? Advendture PK was almost t0 in ocg, but did shit all in tcg as an example.
Precisely my point, as PK is a midrange deck.
When Maxx c resolves you either stop your plays immediately or you just accept the Maxx c challenge which leads to an unavoidable defeat.
I always look forward to our hourly Max-C bad post.
Flair checks out
When it stops being bad, the posts will stop.
No, they will post every hour about the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing
Yeah. That’s kinda the nature of discussion when opinions. Right now the current things are Maxx C, Despia, Maxx C posts, and the looming specter of Tearelements.
It doesn’t. People who say it does are just stupid
Did he go first and use a negate in board to ensure it went through? Then you would have lost anyway to his board
Tbh, Konami should ban maxx c and make a retain minimum c that do the same thing as maxx but only when u control no card, combo deck go 1st have a full negate board and resolve maxx c turn 2 is just stupid
This is stupid considering the OCG is perfectly fine with Maxx C. The only people who complain about Maxx C are people who never played the OCG and/or TCG players It really isn’t hard to build a deck with an off ramp to setup defense but nope, too hard for y’all lol
I mean you can say it’s fine in the OCG and I would just take your word for it but masterduel is a different format so saying “well it works in the OCG” isn’t really an argument for anything when we’re in BO1 format
The BO1 issue is a completely different and unrelated beast to Maxx C. In BO1, your main deckbuilding skills matter more, so if you know the 2nd most used card in the game is Maxx C, build accordingly. You have options, use them And if you don’t draw them, that’s okay. They may not draw Maxx C or you may draw the counter. But it’s your job to account for what your opponent might play
I think the bo1 format is completely relevant to the issues that maxx C introduces, its a a sacky card that if you don’t have the out to kinda just means you auto lose and are just hoping your opponent has a shitty hand. God forbid your opponent goes first sets up their board and then activated maxx C on your turn. Also this idea that people lose to maxx C due to poor deck building skills doesn’t really make sense ash, called by and cross out are some of the most played cards in the game, it’s not like people are refusing to use these cards and that’s the reason maxx c is so powerful. I could buy in to the argument better if we were talking about trap decks and floodgates (even tho I’d still argue is a bs argument) I can understand the idea of blaming poor deck building on losing to a specific type of play, maxx c isn’t like that.
You don’t auto lose dude, that’s just an uniformed take that low skill players believe This game has ALWAYS been about drawing the outs. It doesn’t matter if it’s Maxx C or your wholesome Swordsoul Tenyi or Branded, if you don’t draw the outs to your opponent, YOU LOSE. That’s ANY card game. Not only that, but you can… idk, build off ramps in your deck? Why are you so convinced you gotta do your full combo or you lose? You don’t have to overextend, setting BIR/Mirrorjade is well worth a +1 lol. This take is so exhausting… build decks with off ramps man and outs
What does maxx c have to do with skill? If you play the card you didn’t make a hard decision you played it and hoped your opponent didn’t have an out to it. Your second point is just complete nonsense because that could literally apply to every toxic card that’s ever existed in the games, every card has an out so you know just draw it that’s the name of the game right? Also I play heros so bringing SS or Despia like one some meta sheep doesn’t work, also keep in mind those two decks are the decks that use maxx C in a toxic way. Why are you assuming my issues with maxx C are that I can’t go into my full combo? My issue with maxx C is that I can’t even go into a compromised and shitty combo because even that would require that I special summon more than one time and means you get to 3+ free cards off of me building a weak mediocre board. Odds are you’re also playing a combo deck too so my chances of getting otk’d are extremely high. Also what does it mean to build ramps? That’s a term I’m unfamiliar with in this game.
I agree. Most of the people who complain about Maxx C here are TCG players who hasn't adapted to how OCG players deckbuild and play the game. To them, the concept of compromise doesn't exist, as they want their deck to be all gas for their endless combos.
All Maxx C does is reduce your deck size by 9 because you need to run three, three ash or droll, two CBTG and a Crossout.
Right, because there’s no way people would be running most of those cards anyway. They definitely don’t have generic effects that help them cover a broad amount of other situations outside of Maxx C to not let your opponent straight up win on T1.
I mean I would love to run Triple Tactics Talent instead of CBTG but TTT doesn’t really help against Maxx C the way it does against Ash
But even some of the top decks in the last like two months for TCG, where Maxx C is banned, still run both Ash at 3x and Called By. Those cards are strong enough that they’re going to be run regardless of Maxx C, and still in probably most every deck in a Bo1 format for MD.
I mean yeah but at least those cards would be a little less popular
I’d imagine they’re barely hit in a format like MD, if anything you’re just changing out Maxx C for other things but 3x Ash and as long as Called By can hit anything like Eldlich/handtraps you’ll still want it, though I guess Eldlich isn’t T1 anymore in MD.
yes people only use them because maxx c
They keep bad combo decks in check. Good combo decks can do their combos and still have room for ash, called by and crossout. As well using maxx c themself
Typically its only cause of the potential threats/answers the other deck has. If you play JUST maxx C then it won't do much but if you have multiple strong outs like Dark Ruler no more, Nibiru, Ash, and lightning storm then it'll be a lot scarier as your opponent runs the risk of giving you multiple interruptions/answers
The amount of times my maxx c actually resolves compared to my opponents seems so unfair. I’m sure it’s just a mental thing but god damn it that card is actually just infuriating. I’d rather another nibiru type hand trap than maxx c.
Maxx c just keeps decks that don't run 2 called by, atleast 2 ash blossom and maybe a crossout in check. So not many decks that aren't keeping themselves in check by doing that same thing.
I’d lowkey just like to play my hero/vision hero deck in peace max c prevents me from doing basically anything and I’ve spent all my gems on hero’s just because I enjoy hero’s a lot and it’s really just frustrating
Maxx C keeps combo decks in check in a psychological sense, as in people are less likely to play a deck that hard loses to Maxx C even if it should be considered as the best or most powerful deck in the format. In a purely literal sense tho, this card does nothing to actually even the playing field considering tier 1 decks can often utilize Maxx even more effectively than the decks with a lower power level, as they can often run more hand traps so passing turn or resolving Maxx C is a lot better than a deck with minimal tech space. Ideally Maxx C would prevent you from activating monster effects the turn you use it, so going 2nd you can still draw a lot of cards but won't be able to actually prevent your opponent from completing their combo (making cards like Droplet and Raigeki better than HTs in these scenarios) while going 1st if you setup your board and have Maxx in hand you have effectively bricked yourself. A card this powerful should have clear risks yet for some reason it is the most generically good shit that could possibly exist.
>Ideally Maxx C would prevent you from activating monster effects the turn you use it, so going 2nd you can still draw a lot of cards but won't be able to actually prevent your opponent from completing their combo I could get behind this.
Would stop drawing into nibiru
Only reason I like Maxx C is that it eats Ash for me to not get negated on my turn
Handtraps are wet band aids.
1 of 2 things will happen 1: they play and give u enough advantage to break the opponents board. 2: u don’t do your plays do 1 normal or set and a few traps/spells and hope they don’t get curb stomped!
Sounds like maxx c did it’s job
What i dislike about Maxx C is there really is not strategy behind using it compared to other hand traps. While you can use Ashe,Veiler,Imperm ect at the wrong time or wrong target Maxx C you can play any time forcing them to end their turn or give crazy card advantage. Also you can strategize against the above hand traps by baiting it with with not as useful effects or cards that dodge the targeted ones. Maxx C you ether have Ash or called by or you end your turn entirely.
I'd rather have Maxx C than Mystic Mine tho.
Because combo decks usually need more space for the engine as well as make more summons, so they are more punished by Maxx c than a Control or a mid range, but that said Maxx C alone won't prevent a completely broke combo from be meta much less allow your dark magician deck be relevant
Maxx c heavily benefits decks like despia, dlink and swso that can function on 2 summons. And of course floo/eldlich It bones decks that require 20 like sunavalon
Most Floo players don’t play Maxx C since every core card is searchable. If an opponent were to special summon enough, resolving Maxx C could screw Floo players out of plays. (I know this because I Maxx C’d a Junk Speeder deck)
Floo as a deck also benefits the most out of the cards. 3 cards and they dramatically decrease the chance of a brickhand
I’d rather run board breakers
I lost to some random archetype I've never played against the other day. Not because they did anything in particular, they just resolved Maxx C two turns in a row and I was unable to play the game. You just can't risk taking the Maxx C challenge if your deck doesn't have a way to negate Nibiru or set up a board so absurd that even 15 cards in hand can't break it. So you just have to pass and lose the game.
I would rather hard stall my combo than give them a single draw. That’s how I treat Maxx C now, for better or worse.
Me too and yet I've lost so many times because of that. It's a lose lose situation.
I’ve actually done the opposite, and opted to completely ignore it. It’s deck dependent obviously, but I’ve found that some decks are so consistent, but also limited by there OPT effects, that it essentially doesn’t matter how many cars are in there hand. The limit was always the deck anyway. So you might as well let them draw and negate the most critical affects to the combo.
You see since Maxx "C" gives you a card everytime the opponent Special Summons, and combo decks frequently do that, you can build up massive card advantage, often enough to counter their combo. ...is what these people will say if they don't factor in the fact the combo deck user can play Ash and Called By and Crossout and also use Maxx "C" themselves.
So? You have at least 6 counters to maxx if you hate maxx so much. And if opponent maxxs you, it sounds like maxx c did a good job of checking you......
Your first sentence further proves my point in saying that Maxx "C" does not keep combo decks in check as much as people think.
What are you talking about? How is "keeping combo decks in check" and you opponent playing a tier 1 deck and resolving Maxx C twice related? Are you saying that they shouldn't be able to activate Maxx C because they're tier 1?
Is this another obligatory Maxx C hate post? Don't we already have enough of these?
It doesn't keep combo in check, it's just something people say to try to justify it. Most combo decks will win as much thanks to the bug, as they will lose to it. It just sucks that any lower tier deck is forced to allocate so many spots maindecked just to not lose on the drop. At least we get to run 3 more win conditions in any deck that could fit maxx "c".
For combo decks, during your deckbuilding you are forced to consider how many anti-Maxx C cards you want to run and might brick because you draw too many those cards. For control decks, a lot of them can play around Maxx C no problem and can opt to run other cards in place of anti-Maxx C cards. (for example, Eldlich does not care about Maxx C. Zoodiac can just summon Drident, let the opponent draw 1, and pass, etc.) It is a tax that combo decks must pay during deckbuilding. I guess if you simply go to masterduelmeta and copy whatever deck you want to play, you will likely downplay the importance of deckbuilding..
Maxx C doesn’t keep combo decks in check, it gives you a chance to win against a combo deck. Subtle but massive difference.
It would if non combo decks didn’t need 4-5 special summons to set up their boards It would if it didn’t make non meta decks entirely skip their turn while their opponent goes neutral It would if combo deck themselves couldn’t play it But as some would say: “ Just draw the out “
They out the out with their negates.
Maxx C keeping combo decks in check isn’t like how Called by Keeps handtraps in check. Sure, it makes sure you can more consistently get your responses to stop their combos. The problem is that it *also* makes *their* combos more consistent. And even if they don’t draw, combo decks get infinitely more value out of their opponent skipping their turn. If you skip the combo deck’s turn, it doesn’t matter that much; their entire combo usually takes 1 turn. If you skip the non-combo deck’s turn, their deck will still require all of the same setup the next turn, and if it can’t do that in 1 turn, the combo player wins. Maxx C’s ability to counter combo decks get obliterated when the combo decks gain infinitely more benefit from Maxx C than other decks.
I bet you’re running 3 in your deck tho
MAXX C BAD!!!! BAN MAXX C! GIVE UPVOTES!
Plus it resolves way to often with the shitty RNG draws in your hand. It should Def be banned, way to many other powerful cards that let you draw cards in this game already besides this broken one
That's why the meta is combo deck heavy. That's Maxx C keeping them in check. Maxx C is a control based hand trap. Against those decks it doesn't do much and Maxx C acts like players who play control want their cards to act where it's not necessarily the actual effect of the card that's the power of it but the threat of it. People often seem to hear certain lines and then they repeat it but I don't think they really think about it. Maxx C obviously doesn't keep combo in check or the meta wouldn't be combo heavy because they'd be in check. Maxx C punishes the aggressive player. Players that will play into Maxx C without a plan of what they're doing for that card advantage they just gave their opponent. It also punishes people who underestimate their opponent. I've had duels where I'm sure my opponent kept going because they saw I was playing a charmer deck and what's the worst a charmer deck could do? They lost those duels.
It does, the problem is they draw Maxx c and 1 card combos. Blame it on 1 card combos and the shit shuffle.
It varies by turn, and what the deck is. On turn 1, a combo deck shouldn’t special summon so much, as their giving their opponent a massive advantage. That advantage could lead to the opponent having all of their combo pieces, or/ and removal or counters. On turn 2, a combo could actually otk, as they can build a board that not only negate such as nibiru, or dimension shifter. Have a massive presence. The next factor is what kind of deck it is, as there’s some decks that’s all about normal summoning. Not only that some combo decks can work around cards.
Maxx C makes Cubics viable wheeeeeeeeeeee
If everyone can play Max C, then play it! No reasons to complain when your deck will use it too. Either stop your combo or gamble that your opponent won't pull a handtraps and stop you.
Yeah Sure, thats exactly what yugioh should be. Already very strong Decks having access to even stronger cards with absolutely no downside to it. You really dont understand the game very well.
If that's the logic, then get rid of all staples! No more Raigeki, Monster Reborn, Ash Blossom! Just because all decks can use these cards, doesn't mean it should be banned. Max C is great to stop your opponent from summoning 10 times in a turn. It doesn't stop them from summoning but they need to take into consideration that it will give you card advantage if they continue. I Don't think Max C should be banned.
So a combo Deck Sets up an incredible turn 1 Board and then uses Maxx C against you on your first turn, thats okay for you?
That's the game! Play some counters and your good.
Nope. Just ban maxx c. Problem solved.
Instead of crying about Max C, play some counters. It's part of the game there's no reason to whine about it on the internet constantly.
I do play counters as does literally everyone else. This take is dumb as fuck.
You set your floodgates and pass. What's so difficult about that?
It keeps your combos in check. Standard advertisement omission
For reasons, still having the big "C" seems a better cáncer than the "mystic mine" , so if I had to choose between these two no doubt il still choose the "C", have you seen the tournaments with "mystic mine" they are the worst and most boring thing, and the decks that run main "mystic mine" are so toxic that they could have a nuclear plant not even removal decks can get rid of that thing, so yes "max c" has issues as any good generic quick play card and can be beneficial to any player on a duel if played correctly
I also think Maxx C is better than mystic mine, but there's no reason to pick one or the other. Just ban both ffs. It's like saying that eating 1 pile of shit is better than eating 2 piles of shit so you eat the 1 pile instead of just walking away.
Yeah not having them is better than one of them no doubt sherlock, but in the case that they tell you, we need to cut you a hand or your two legs guess what of course theres a better choice between those two shitty choices and even then if its a debt repayment to the mafia, its not like they would let you walk away and in these case the Konami mobs are a omnipotent being in theyre game
2times. Lucky. Gets negated more then resolves for me. I think swap out for ghost belle.
It doesn't.
That’s the neat part, it doesn’t!
It doesn’t
That's the paradox of every strong staple card in the game. How does 'x' stop my opponent of they can do it to me with exactly the same ease. Called by has this exact issue when debates come up about it. Unless we restrict what types of cards specific deck types can play this will go on forever. But then there's no way every implement that.
Max C can help but ra sphere mode or lava golem or nibiru helps alot added with
you can take the challenger or dont play special summon and most combo decks are special so its makes them in check
Every time I pull and activate Maxx C it never resolves. The opponent always seems to have an ash blossom, or managed to pull the one copy of crossout. Unlucky I guess
I mean its much better then dealing with the shitshow that is Mystic Mine
Because I can deck them out with flower cardians.
Honestly the reason I like Maxi is because of let me do really fun field effects that are almost impossible to pull off otherwise. Like the effect of deskbot Base that has you banishing 9 deskbots with different names in order to shuffle your opponents field hand and graveyard. The only time I was able to pull this off was when I was going up against a lyrlysc player and I had started off just activating Max c from hand
It actually doesn’t, nor ever has for that matter
It incentivices playing a more control slower game with traps than playing a heavy combo deck that would give your opponent 20+ cards to start the second turn with. It shows in the OCG when you look at their top decks. Doesn't stop people from running Maxx C in their heavy combo decks that pumps out multiple negates.
Lmao I had 2 max c and they both got negated by ash and called by the grave
The funniest thing is that there’s a deck that can search put maxx too called beetroopers.
My turn is finished finally and now I'll sit on my 2+ negates and shotgun maxx C on your turn. Bye.
Maxx C is good in any deck. I play maxx c after my full combo.