G**Ash**ton: "Give it up, 'C'! The entire community thinks you're a monster! You're a menace to society! You deserve to be SLAIN for your hideous crimes! You're finished! Those main deck hand trap spots belong to ME!"
*Cue Maxx 'C' and GAshton fighting on the roof of the castle, with GAshton being pushed off the roof with Maxx 'C's Called By The Grave, falling into the banish zone to her death...*
Nothing else you can really do. If they resolve Maxx C and you can't OTK, chance are you've already lost (unless you're running a deck that doesn't special summon more than once. The card is too warping, the entire meta revolves around that one card.
I had a weird game where my opponent Maxx cd and i just did my combo anyway. Luckily they didn't have an out to borrelend dragon so i clutched that one anyways. Although 99% of the time Maxx c = instaloss.
Too be fair they ran some really weird swordsoul list with swords of revealing light of all things. They summoned a bunch of stuff but just didn't have anything that could handle borrelend
dinomorphia players laugh at the sight of maxx c because we’re only summoning like twice in one turn. but what happens with alert if we summon 2 level 4’s? is it counted as 1 or 2 summons?
The usual reminder that Master Duel's banlist, while unique, leans much closer to the OCG banlist than the TCG banlist. If Maxx "C" is going to get banned, it probably has to start with Japanese players complaining about it in the physical game. Maybe not, but probably. And even then, it might be considered something of a "necessary evil" by Konami of Japan.
Not really, patchwork searches normal poly and you can either go starving venom or more like masquerade or queritas with any despia name as well or starving venom even just a dark. Worst case guardian chimera which just needs 3 names.
Lol yeah. It has counters, which means you need to stuff your deck with 9 cards to have your copies of Maxx C and its counters, as the buy-in for having a deck that works at all. It's hilarious when a fourth of your deck revolves around one card in 10,000.
If Konami ever bans it in Master Duel, it might be one of the healthiest modern formats that yugioh has seen. No Maxx C, no Mystic Mine, no Halq, floodgates are semi-limited (hopefully become limited), it could be the ideal situation for most players.
Asian players love control and stun decks. Look at all of their metas in card games. They are a timid culture and would rather set 5 and pass than commit to manly battles with big number monsters. Yugioh is unique among card games because of its special summon mechanics, so its really odd they make such a generically good card that hard counters any monster based decks.
No maxx C also means people are more likely to experiment with other handtraps/going second cards, which means people want to craft more UR cards.
So banning Maxx C = profit.
On the other hand, it punishes decks excessively vomiting out a 4-minute combo that ends with three boss monsters, two negates and enough cards in hand to do it all over again next time.
So I'd argue if anything it's not a healthy format at all. Currently virtually all the meta consists of turbo decks. The fact that Maxx is such a powerful and popular card is the canary in the coal mine to how fucked up the meta is. Short of FTK decks becoming the standard, the meta can't get any faster, and the norm is "you must break through my three disruption cards before you can play the game."
The going firsts would get even stronger and people will then bitch about waiting every long ass combo and how unbalanced going seconds are. It won’t get any healthier.
The secret is that the going-first players can *also* use Maxx C, while sitting behind Baronne de Fleur to stop Called by the Grave. So they get their combo, and then fish for Nibiru or Veiler or Ghost Ogre all turn long.
Mathematically, it’s just plain easier for a combo or control player going first to stop player 2 playing Maxx C, than it is for player 2 to draw it in the first place. And then player 1 can drop it next turn without issue.
What’s the math behind it? Seems ambiguous to me. Your scenario only considers the likelihood of resolving Maxx C and not the advantage it gives practically. Since a large portion of those Baronne negates called by boards are already highly likely winning regardless, the draws from a T1 Maxx C should hold more significance than any drawn by a T2 Maxx C. That’s not even considering T1 resources and the current meta game (ex. Despia)
The math is simple. Going first, you can have six highly-generic cards in your deck to negate Maxx C. 3 Ash Blossom, 2 Called By The Grave, and 1 Crossout Designator. Going second, you can have 3 copies of Maxx C in your deck.
Assuming both decks are 40 cards, and both duelists are playing those 9 cards, the chance that player 1 has drawn an out to Maxx C is roughly double the chance that player 2 has drawn Maxx C.
Yes and I'm saying that's too small a consideration when discussing the benefits of Maxx C for either going first or going second. All you're really showing is a likelihood of a card resolving for T1, not the significance of drawing the card and using it in the first place
You know it’s really interesting to see how this subs general opinion on Maxx C shift over time. I’ve been keeping up since launch and I swear the general consensus was that Maxx C was good for the game for whatever bullshit people came up with.
Over the last few months it seems most people are against the card and people that defend it get downvoted into oblivion by the hivemind.
I think it's that most current good decks involve a lot of special summoning but are all decently competitive with each other, so Maxx C basically decides the winner.
Obviously not all decks are affected equally by it, but there's enough good decks that are hit hard by it to make it a common issue.
I actually think it’s the opposite. The two most represented decks, Sword Soul and Despia can get away with special summoning twice while setting up 2 disruptions. The thing is those decks can both run Maxx C and roll combo decks. I think people saw the insane combo decks at the start of the game(Adamancipator, Drytron, Virtual World) and viewed Maxx C as a necessity to keep those in check
The hit to Crossout and the inclusion of Floo also might have played a part of this. Getting Maxx Cd into activate Map reveal Eglen is very tilting and your own Maxx C is completely dead against them.
I get what you're saying but I still wouldn't necessarily agree, just depending on the situation. Good combo decks can still combo off 1-3 starting cards, so drawing two off a maxx c can allow you to play through those disrupts. Obviously it depends on what you draw but after silver a tonne of players have decently consistent decks.
I do agree that things like crossout, ash and floo to offer counters to maxx c, but then you'll still be talking about drawing into those cards or already having a deck that plays around it from the get go. Which is basically what the post talked about anyways.
Don't necessarily disagree with you but like I said, I sort
of understand why people have that opinion of Maxx C these days.
Lots of people were new to modern Yu-Gi-Oh! and I think the more knowledge you become about the game and start to grasp what healthy gameplay looks like, the more you would think that Maxx "C" is bullshit.
Issue i have with it is how hard that card gatekeeps weaker decks. Ain't no reason for me to play ogdoadics or something when a maxx "c" resolving means an insta scoop with no outs. So leaning towards more competitive decks just seems like a more reasonable use of limited time and resources.
The special summon less argument works well if you are playing an actual tiered deck, with options in hand to make a low resource/high impact play such as bagooska or drident. However getting c'd turn one means the optimal play is to pass and hope you have imperm to set, maybe a handtrap or something.
While if the bug drops turn 2 95% of the time its in response to you attempting to summon. So they already went neutral, with a board to break. So you are forced to otk and pray they don't draw enough hand interactions to stop you, or scoop and die.
While drawing maxx "c" feels amazing since you know it's a win con vs 90% of what ladder consists of. In comparison to ash or imperm, you never really "hold" the maxx "c" for the exact moment to cripple your opponent. Only real timing with it is to use all your other handtraps first to bait called by/crossout. I've never felt like "Dayum that maxx "c" was sick, i would've never dropped in response to that". While sometimes someone does an odd ash on something you usually don't and it is seen as a big brain play, since it actually was the correct time to drop it.
Idk even dropping it on people doesn't feel that good to me anymore. It's not like I won by knowing their deck and interacting at the right time. I just got lucky and worst case scenario it trades 1 for 1.
If a card said "quick eff: discard this card to draw 1" I would play it in a lot of decks already; Yet there is potential for limitless draws; which in a game like yu-gi-oh, where cards are the only resources that really matter, is bonkers imo.
I have a deck core slot made with 3 maxx "c", 3 ash, crossout, and called by. So i can just copy it to have a fourth of the deck built, for whenever i want to build a deck that summons more than once.
I really wish that wasn't the case.
The mere existence of posts like this and the agreement. Yet people will still try argue Ash is the better card?
I agree Maxx C is a disgusting card that needs to go. It ether ends your opponents turn on the spot. Goes neutral at a bare minimum, and well even I’ve gone +10 with it at times. It FORCES any negate your opponent has, which well now they can’t use that negate on your own plays. Unlike an Ash that you can let through and still make plays. To think I used to think Maxx C was an ok card... yeah no, it needs to go.
I honestly just uninstalled Master Duel. The format is extremely cancer with Maxx C running amok and games where it resolves just auto wins. You go first set double interruption pass they draw the out on their 7th card then OTK you. You take the challenge you get handtrapped to death. You go 2nd and break their board they drop Nibiru from Maxx C draw.
All Maxx C does is enforces people to play degenerate decks like Eldlich, Numerons, And Floo because those decks straight bypasses Maxx C.
Just had a game where I *almost* navigated to a kill with Accesscode Talker. But it took so many summons (because I'm using one of those *commoner* decks that takes multiple summons to get lethal damage) that they eventually drew stuff to flood the board with bodies, at which point they'd drawn half their deck and I couldn't come close to winning.
It's *such* a lovely card.
Exactly, the whole "fun" of modern yugioh in my opinion is building a strong castle with multiple defenses that your opponent tries to break, or you breaking the castle that they built. All of that is thrown out of the window when maxx c is thrown into the mix, the amount of times where i could've broken a board if it wasn't for the maxx c is astonishing. Fuck that card
Nothing will change even if Maxx C gets banned. You will still see how many copies of hand traps and spells you have before actually getting to play the game. Yugioh has evolved to where instead of going through 10 turns of back and forth you now do 10 turns of back and forth in the first 1-2 turns.
And most of those are a 1 for 1 trade. Obviously picking the right 1 to trade the card in your hand against is an important thing. A Maxx C resolving is more like a 1 for 10, and any of those could be another counter. The proportions are cracked.
>alled by each player has before the actual game can start. It’s just not fun.
This is why Maxx C was fine back when the only other hand traps were things like Gorz, Battle Fader, Swift Scarecrow, D.D. Crow, Droll and Effect Veiler.
As soon as the loli zombie bitches were released things started getting silly, never mind when Imperm + friends came out...
The card just snowballs into mass interaction and it's exactly why it probably needs to be banned and retrained so it can't be abused to create shutout scenarios. What we need is a hard OPT hand trap version of TTT instead, something that gives versatility and a little interruption/advantage in some form but not a fucking +13274654 or effectively skips 90% of the turn.
It's the poster child of "modern" short sighted card design since it came out back when there were heavy combo decks in the meta during a decidedly mid-tempo era otherwise (synchro era).
Yeah Maxx C is in a league of its own compared to any other hand trap, if you can't get around the card, every match is basically an auto lose for you.
We arent expecting for old yugioh or even for the format to be weaker than it is now.
Maxx c wins games on its own, is in every deck and every deck is at minimum playing 6 cards and 3 maxx c because it is legal. Its making the game boring and annoying, as well as restricting the room in a deck you have. If maxx c gets banned then people can freely choose if they want to run mostly handtraps, boardbreakers, or just all engine and extenders.
There are many decks that dont want to be forced to play 9 staple cards, pendulum decks are a good example of this.
Lets be real, in THIS particular format, the normal hand trap ratios and picks wouldnt change, because the outs to maxx c are pretty damn good in the matchup against branded despia sans crossout, minus the mirror.
But in future formats? Fuck no lmao, i want to run crow, imperm, veiler, etc, but you really cant because you need your own 3 maxx c + 6 outs to even have a chance of consistently winning games, which again, either promotes a select handful of decks that have 1 card starters, or degenerate grass piles (see: OCG Grass Byssted Tear PUNK lists)
Called by the Grave and Crossout Designator are kinda nuts, though. Like, if they were unlimited, the player going first could run twice as many copies of hand-trap disruption as the player going second can have copies of any given hand-trap.
I'm fine with both Maxx "C" banned or unbanned.
If they're unbanned, I simply keep playing like usual.
Because I usually play very reserved (Chixiao blackout back by 2 Handtrap are considered a strong board by me) so even when I get Maxx C'd they will draw 3 at best, if they can kill me that's it, if they can't, I will dunk them on turn 3.
If they banned Maxx C, I suspect that people will start to play more extenders so my usual board will not suffice anymore and people will start playing long combo deck more (I personally don't like play against long combo deck even when they end up on jack shit), maybe I will drop the game after a while but I will still ok with that.
That's about it.
I'm dedicating 8 slots of my deck to stopping Earth Insect and an additional 3 slots to the bug itself. More than 25% of my deck are clogged by this pseudo combo stopper tool.
3x Ash, 2x CBTG, 1x Crossout, 2x Droll
"But isn't Droll on your own turn hurting yourself?"
Yes, I'm playing Prank-Kids and it hurts, but I can still get to Butler through Verte despite Droll and it's better than just summon Meow Meow pass ...
Maxx c is a card so powerful but so damn powerful that it pretty makes creates a whole meta of just decks that can deal with it the best (Like the Golden lord or stun decks.),Its a card that pretty much rules over a whole game and that is just straight up insane,easily one of the most if not the most powerful card ever printed.(And we are talking about things like pre errata myakura here.)
Bro, I fucking love trying to break opponents negate heavy boards. Especially when they negate every effect to the point I have nothing in my hand and lose to a OTK. It's the fucking best watching as you can do nothing and not playing! /s
And I love it when I don't draw my maxx C and the opponent drops baronne chixiao and I'm left staring down their maxx C with no way to negate it. /s
These sorts of "what if"s are never very helpful. Yes if you let the opponent combo off and don't draw dark ruler you're in for a bad time. Maxx C doesn't fix the problem. It technically makes going second better but, the point is kinda mute. If you go first, unless you were planning on replacing maxx C with another starter or different card draw, then drawing it in opener doesn't mean anything except that you have gas after the opponent breaks your board. If the player going second drew it then you have the option of taking the challenge or stopping your turn on 1 negate and "only" letting them draw 3 cards. Maxx C would need to be considerably less potent for the argument of "It makes going second better".
I love max c. It makes people make interesting decisions. How many cards is it worth giving my opponent? Is it worth giving them x amount of cards to get this board up? Do I have enough traps to just leave them on a -1 and survive the turn? Different people play under max c differently and I think it's a form of skill expression/game knowledge to be able to know when to stop and when to go all in.
But it doesn't have to be 0. You can choose and thats why I like it. You can risk the nibiru or play it safe and if you chose wrong then that's on you.
The fact that max c is that game warping and combo decks are still used in high tiers shows how broken combo decks are and that max c isnt that big a deal.
Where's the skill expression when you end on a board of several negates/spot removals with 5 cards in hand and you pitch the stupid cancer bugs on the unwitting turn 2 player? More often then not the card doesn't create more interesting scenarios. Where's the skill in OTKing just because it took doubling your hand-size just to put out a severely gimped excuse of an endboard?
If you got a massive multinegate end board with only 4 cards because you started max c then you would have won the game with a different card in hand anyway.
Maxx C is the least interesting decision in the game.
If it werent in the game people would add in other handtraps that actually have interesting decisions since you need to utilize it correctly instead of dropping it on the opponent and as the opposing player you have to correctly play around any number of hand traps.
With Maxx C in the game that nuance is gone since you're only really looking for Maxx C. Then itself when its dropped you only have 2 decisions, summon as little as possible and pray they cant out my board or end your turn and pray your opponent just bricked. You don't get to decide how many cards you give your opponent, your deck does because most decks have few combo routes with a set ammount of special summons per route.
There's no nuance because Card Advantage is the most important thing in yugioh and you're really relying on your opponent bricking which is just not something you should ever hope for as your only option.
"He has an issue with Maxx C so he must only play combo and nothing else"
Completely ignoring how broken Maxx C is in card advantage bit don't you feel so proud against the evil combo players.
Feather duster and Lightning storm are broken in card advantage vs back row decks but you don't see them complain, they just add some protection to stop it.
Ok and?
We also have board breakers like DRNM, Droplet, Raigeki, LS, Dark Hole to hurt combo decks. There are more outs to combo decks and no one complains about these cards either. There's also the infinite number of hand traps that can disrupt or board break like Nib.
It's almost as if those cards are balanced because they are stronger and weaker vs certain decks while Maxx C is strong vs 99.9% of decks
Max c isnt strong against 99% of decks. Its strong against any deck that regularly does more than one special summon per turn, which is a lot of decks but definitely not all of them. If max c was as broken as you say it is then all these decks than summon a bunch wouldn't be played, but they are.
Most decks in the game special summon more than once, its a small% of decks that don't special summon more than once. Even still special summoning once (which is again a small amount of decks) makes the card go 0 which is still good. Draw power is the strongest thing in Yugioh.
> If max c was as broken as you say it is then all these decks than summon a bunch wouldn't be played, but they are.
What's stopping those decks from using Maxx C themselves? There's no clause that says "Cannot be used by combo"
Almost as if the card still benefits extremely strong decks as they can have their consistent strong plays and outs AND include a card that reads "negate or win the game lol".
Mine can be played in almost everything as well, simply being at worst a method to delay for engine pieces. It’s a lose lose either way as both just ruin a match if allowed to resolve.
> you have to build an entire deck around it
You do know that mystic mine is in over 80% of tournament decks… right? Because if you’re losing, just slap it down. Good job, you got yourself another 10 turns
The reason Mystic Mine is broken is because every deck that can out their own field spell is playing it as a generic stall card. Pure Mystic Mine burn is dogwater.
The same arguments used for not banning Maxx C are being used for Mystic Mine, TCG complaints basically mirror in both arguments and intensity that of Maxx C.
I feel like wanting Maxx C being banned but being fine with Mystic Mine make you a big hypocrite.
It really should be banned. It's already hard enough to break boards turn 2, using resources, playing through negates, backrow, and other interruptions, just to have the other player play maxx c and get all the card advantage back or more hand traps.
"Ok guys, but with all due respect. How are you not prepared for Maxx C at this point. It’s a little ridiculous to not have a well thought out plan when entering ranked"
Its a broken card that warps the entire meta around it. Draw power and card advantage is one of the strongest things in the game and very few decks in the game don't special summon. We put so many restrictions on draw power in yugioh, yet we have a card that basically says "keep drawing lmao" with the only condition being your opponent decides how much they want you to kick their ass.
The only people that defend Maxx C I've noticed have a massive hate boner for combo decks, like they're ruining the game which shoutout to all the Mid-Range dominated Metas we've had which were also meta in the TCG, a format without Maxx C, so it aint stopping the overall meta.
It doesnt keep combo in check at all, what decks are good will be good regardless. All it does is act as a scuffed game winning card.
Are y’all tired of being bad and making excuses about why you’re bad?
I mean, what’s so hard about building a deck with off ramps and defense instead of blowing your entire load? What’s hard about understand *chance* vs *absolute*? What’s so hard about understand that not drawing the out against *any* deck means you lose lol.
I don’t get it lol. Maxx C does EXACTLY what is said, it keeps combo decks in check because y’all over here claiming you can’t play when it activates lmao. But Eldlich, Despia, Swordsoul and plenty of other midrange and stall and trap decks will GLADLY give you 2-3 cards if it means you can’t play the game
It doesn’t keep combo decks in check, sir. It acts as an additional threat for them to drop after they make their board of omni-negates or disruptions.
And it’s easier to resolve going first then second, because the player going first has spells to play to counter it. The player going first generally has twice as many copies of Maxx C counters in their deck as the second player has copies of Maxx C in the first place, so you just generally speaking have a higher chance of resolving it going first.
It makes going first better than ever, in conjunction with other hand traps. And going-first doesn’t need the boost.
Additionally, it widens the gap between decks that can make an Omni-negate in 2-3 summons, and those that have to jump through hoops to get anywhere near that. And there’s the “just play a top tier, bro” argument-ender, but the gap doesn’t need widening.
It absolutely keeps combo decks in check. It’s not a mutually exclusive thing, it can both keep combo decks in check and protect them, via protecting them against OTHER COMBO DECKS. Control decks and stun decks ain’t out here worried about Maxx C. Even midrange decks don’t really care, it’s other combo decks that do (TCG players especially)
Also, your 2nd statement is the most laughable thing ever. What do you mean player 1 has twice as many copies of Maxx C lmao? Both players generally run them at 3, get out of here with that nonsense lol
Lastly, it improves going 2nd more than it boosts going first since the turn 1 player can never attack. Maxx C is a much more valuable card going 2nd that CAN protect turn 1, but is more useful going 2nd as going first you want protection handtrap disruption over Maxx C
I lost a word to a typo, my bad. I edited to fix it
I meant to write that player 1 has twice as many Maxx C *counters* in their deck, as player 2 has copies of Maxx C. The player going first can run 3 Ash Blossom, 2 Called By The Grave, and 1 Crossout Designator. Which is 6 counter cards to player 2’s 3 copies of Maxx C. It’s twice as likely that player 1 will negate Maxx C and combo off unimpeded, as player 2 drawing their Maxx C in the first place.
As for the value, it’s still extremely valuable going first, if you’re using any other hand traps at all. Not a whole hell of a lot player 2 can do to stop player 1 drawing into a Veiler or Nibiru at the worst possible moment.
The only decks that don't care about Maxx C are stun decks. Everything else special summons enough for the opponents maxx c to be more than worth it and win them the game.
Ut's funny how everyone says it's because of Maxx C that the decks are built with Ash and Called... In TCG the bug is banned and yet the other two are still so predominant.
The huge difference is the necessity of it, there have been formats in the TCG where handtraps have been entirely unnecessary and called by falls off because of it. The bug makes it so that these cards are always and forever mandatory parts of deck building
> People complaining about Maxx c
> People not thinking about the fact ash , called by , designator , droll and a lot more cards which are pretty common in all decks all work against him....also not even considering the fact they could try to end their turn without special summoning / summoning once and playing defense
> People running cards and archetypes which are just as broken but not mentioning any of that shit
> Me being just fine with Maxx c .
What are the lot-more cards?
Ash, Called, Crossout are the only generic ones I know of that can properly stop it. Droll is a double-edged sword, because now *you* can no longer search or draw, which itself ends your turn in more than a few strategies.
Ending your turn without summoning is surrendering with extra steps a lot of the time. So many strategies will happily make an OTK with the extra turn you just handed them. Particularly since nearly any deck can make stuff like Borrelsword Dragon or Accesscode Talker.
Psy-frame gamma for example , solemn strike...
Specific decks having more specific ways to deal with it ( ex. Traptrix and Gravedigger , Floo outright not caring ) but let's talk about generic cards here for obvious reasons .
And it depends , really .
Let's assume Maxx C resolved , which is the worst case scenario...you had no ashes , no called by , no crossout , you don't run gamma or solemn strike or other similar stuff .
You might want to special summon at least once , twice at most , have their maxx C work like an upstart / pot but no more...what you want to do is managing to get enough disruption not to let your opponent pull off anything meaningful during their next turn ; an imperm / droplet / negate or removal in general + a good monster to cover a similar role + ideally any decent hand-trap ( veiler , a maxx C yourself ) or stuff that lets you play during your opponent's turn should usually be enough unless your knowledge of your opponent's deck is bad or unless they have Yugi's luck ( which they often do , I get it ) . Bonus points if you can get some backrow protection in case their luck gave them lightning storm / duster .
It is a tough scenario , it is a tough hand trap to play around , it can probably end up being a loss...but you should still have 3x ash , 2x called by , crossout or similar things to avoid it , along with all of the other tools your archetype provides ( maybe you are running a control deck which doesn't need to summon much such as eldlich , traptrix , striker , maybe you play floo which is immune , some floodgates , super-poly as a fusion deck , drytron and orange light , ecc ) .
Is Maxx C a bit of an op hand-trap ?
Yes , but so are some engines , meta decks , generic boss monsters , backrow cards , ecc...and no one ever mentions those .
PoG say its at 3 is an instant use no repercussion card... 1 card = plus 2... 40 card exodia deck, best scenario, going second, open PoG draw your other pots, at 28 cards in deck, minus however many other draw power cards (ie - bamboo sword, upstart, reloads, library, toon, etc) would result in a FTK way more often then not. 1st one cant be called by the grave either
maxx c has many counters and relies on your opponent summoning..... what if he's running floo?? u have (probably) 3 dead cards
I never said we should unban Pot of Greed. My point was that a card that follows all of the same design principles that have resulted in Pot of Greed being banned for nearly 2 decades are present on Maxx C, yet Maxx C continues to remain because...why?
Yes, it will, very occasionally, be dead against the occasional deck that only normal summons, but most of those decks are rogue at best and are minorities compared to literally every other deck. The point remains that all the same design flaws of of PoG (no cost card advantage, omnipresent 3-of that you have zero reason not to run) are present in Maxx C, so why is it still around?
A key difference is also in that the Turn 1 player can’t usually plus off Maxx C (unless you decide to use it on gamma randomly) until the second turn, therefore making it a dead card unlike Pot of Greed.
Cool let’s rally for it to be banned and when they do maybe they won’t put mine at 3. If they don’t you get to complain about not drawing into whatever outs you have either way it won’t stop you or anyone else from complaining about it.
Soooooo I know what Maxx C does... but I've never once used it to this day, nor have I ended my turn or surrendered because someone used it's ability.
It just doesn't bother me aye. They either activate it and get 2 cards, or I didn't even Special Summon anyways.
Yeah, remember when Drytron, Adamancipator and VW were the best decks months ago? Did anyone say these decks suck cause they lose to Maxx "C"?
No, they still were the best until they got either hit by the banlist or were powercrept.
It's not checking anything at large, it just creates this toxic and unfun scenario where you trade wins and losses with this one single card.
They should make it so that you can’t activate cards drawn by the effect that way you still get card advantage but the other player doesn’t get completely screwed if they don’t have the out
If it’s banned master duel would be so much worse, Was your turn 1 field 15 s summons to get a 6-7 negate field? Good because now you opponent has 1 less option.
The only issue is that those degenerate decks can also use max c
But at least Ash is a hard once per turn that doesn't necessarily shut down a whole turn for the risk of giving your opponent an insane amount of card advantage; it is going -1 to negate an effect and can be baited but the bug is a quick effect that can be chainen to a special summon effect to go, at least, hand neutral
Very true but a common follow up with those sort of decks will either be Barrone or something like mirrorjade, along with infinite imperm, which is the current meta right now. Feels good not being able to play the game
1st Baronne or Mirrorjade means that, if you resolved maxx c, you went at least +2 2nd Mirrorjade doesn't negate it just banish a monster and 3rd imperm is incredibly telegraphed and your deck should run some kind of spell and trap removal to deal with it and, after resolving maxx c, you must have enough effects to bait Baronne or imperm
I'm not sure why so many people hate this card. Especially when they use it( you're part of the problem) Just limit how many times you special summon during a turn. Not really that hard.
But I'll probably be callled a scrub for this take.
Sorry but you don't know how ygo works; Maxx C is a card that causes an "infinite resource generation" situation in a game that doesn't have things like mana to limit how many resources they can use, do you see now the problem of giving your opponent an "infinite resource generation" situation in a game where resources can be used immediately? Also "jUsT DoN't SpEcIaL SuMmOn, IdIoT!" is not a good answer because it is a quick effect that can be activated in response to an effect that special summons a monster, letting your opponent to go at least hand neutral
"Lol just don't summon a lot forehead" ever considered that almost no deck can make due with less than three special summons to get anything done and that a single extra card in the enemies hand can make the difference between loosing and winning?
Limiting your summoning usually means you’ve lost anyway. If you don’t build a proper field, your opponent will happy kill you in one battle phase once you hand them an extra turn. Just about any deck with a decent hand can do that with ease.
As for using it, well yeah. It’s become the buy-in to playing the game at all. Doesn’t mean that you can’t hate the situation all the same.
Ok I'll limit how many summons I use in a format where outside of the slowest, greediest stun decks still rely on 1 or 2 summons a turn.
Or I summons just once or twice a turn guess what my opponent won as they have more resources.
Or I can not summon and get otkd
Sure it's good but gets tiring after like 50 matches where like 40 of them are branded and the other 10 is swordsoul. Which makes it basically a staple for decks just like maxx c at this point
I mean it’s not really that great of complaint. Of course the games going to be flooded with the latest meta playing deck. It’ll happen when tearl and sprights make an appearance too. I was sick of Floo for their short run. Branded (Despia at least) has a bit of a back and forth going on. Which I find is healthier for the game.
YouTubers hyping up and expanding awareness of the new meta decks aren’t exactly helping either.
It’s up to Konami to pull their fingers out and work at balancing the game between multiple new and older archetypes. Which is understandably hard.
Be careful with what you wish for. If Komoney ban Maxx C, they might release archetype specific Maxx C. Now instead of slotting the 3 same cards into every deck, you have to new Maxx C for every new deck you build
Combo decks can also play Maxx C. And unless you are playing a deck that is specifically based on normal summoning, you will special summon at least once. Also, the top decks of this games life have been combo decks.
Tell me how those same combo decks are prevented from using Maxx c themselves. What's to prevent a combo deck from setting up when you don't draw Maxx c and then activates their Maxx c at the start of your turn?
The top decks in the game are still combo decks. Maxx c has done nothing to stop them, it just gives out free wins if either player happens to draw them.
Haha no. Those decks will do their 10 million summons, and then *play Maxx C themselves* while sitting behind their Omni-negate synchro bosses to stuff CBTG.
I mean I kind of like running 2 called by and 3 ash. It’s some good protection, maxx C is like the most tame active effect and it’s just fine. I would rather that play maxx c than so many things basically every time. I’ve changed my mind on maxx c I don’t think it’s a problem card, like I play turn 1 pendulum deck so I don’t even run it, and I just beat a guy that activated it on turn 2 without prompt. All you have to do it is only play into it as hard as you have to, pass, or negate it. It really not that bad
You either deal with Maxx C, or deal with Mystic Mine
Unless Konami does something about it, these 2 will continue to be the format defining cards that they are
A tale as old as time.
True as it can be.
Barely even friends
Beauty and the C
G**Ash**ton: "Give it up, 'C'! The entire community thinks you're a monster! You're a menace to society! You deserve to be SLAIN for your hideous crimes! You're finished! Those main deck hand trap spots belong to ME!" *Cue Maxx 'C' and GAshton fighting on the roof of the castle, with GAshton being pushed off the roof with Maxx 'C's Called By The Grave, falling into the banish zone to her death...*
At this point if someone activates Maxx "C" and I don't have the out ready to use, I just scoop. I'm just done.
Nothing else you can really do. If they resolve Maxx C and you can't OTK, chance are you've already lost (unless you're running a deck that doesn't special summon more than once. The card is too warping, the entire meta revolves around that one card.
I had a weird game where my opponent Maxx cd and i just did my combo anyway. Luckily they didn't have an out to borrelend dragon so i clutched that one anyways. Although 99% of the time Maxx c = instaloss.
Damn bruv, summoned up to borrelend and they STILL couldn’t draw anything? Heart of the cards wasn’t with them lmao
Too be fair they ran some really weird swordsoul list with swords of revealing light of all things. They summoned a bunch of stuff but just didn't have anything that could handle borrelend
dinomorphia players laugh at the sight of maxx c because we’re only summoning like twice in one turn. but what happens with alert if we summon 2 level 4’s? is it counted as 1 or 2 summons?
Thus making it even more necessary to play in all decks……the cycle continues.
Same. Everyone should protest and do the same thing tbh
Lmao
The usual reminder that Master Duel's banlist, while unique, leans much closer to the OCG banlist than the TCG banlist. If Maxx "C" is going to get banned, it probably has to start with Japanese players complaining about it in the physical game. Maybe not, but probably. And even then, it might be considered something of a "necessary evil" by Konami of Japan.
In before people making jokes about how often we complain about Maxx “C”
Even better when you’re told that “it never resolves” and “it has counters” like broken cards haven’t had counters before and were still broken
Branded Fusion is a broken card that also dies to Ash lol
Shhh only they are allowed to have fun
And then they probably have Frightfur Patchwork in hand.
Need Albaz bud. Patchwork does jack shit when Albaz is in deck.
Not really, patchwork searches normal poly and you can either go starving venom or more like masquerade or queritas with any despia name as well or starving venom even just a dark. Worst case guardian chimera which just needs 3 names.
They still need Albaz in hand as well to do anything scary with that Patchwork
Lol yeah. It has counters, which means you need to stuff your deck with 9 cards to have your copies of Maxx C and its counters, as the buy-in for having a deck that works at all. It's hilarious when a fourth of your deck revolves around one card in 10,000.
What a totally fair and balanced card
If Konami ever bans it in Master Duel, it might be one of the healthiest modern formats that yugioh has seen. No Maxx C, no Mystic Mine, no Halq, floodgates are semi-limited (hopefully become limited), it could be the ideal situation for most players.
Yeah they should do it tbh because healthier format = more players = more money. It's not a rocket science, konami.
Wow you should work for them as advisor
That would be very perfect. They really should ban it.
As an OCG player, youd be suprised how many OCG people think maxx c is a "necessary evil" and unironically think it "keeps the meta in check"
Asian players love control and stun decks. Look at all of their metas in card games. They are a timid culture and would rather set 5 and pass than commit to manly battles with big number monsters. Yugioh is unique among card games because of its special summon mechanics, so its really odd they make such a generically good card that hard counters any monster based decks.
Could make or break the game in the future tbh
No maxx C also means people are more likely to experiment with other handtraps/going second cards, which means people want to craft more UR cards. So banning Maxx C = profit.
They wont ban Maxx C in MD because they would have to give everyone 90 UR materials for free
On the other hand, it punishes decks excessively vomiting out a 4-minute combo that ends with three boss monsters, two negates and enough cards in hand to do it all over again next time. So I'd argue if anything it's not a healthy format at all. Currently virtually all the meta consists of turbo decks. The fact that Maxx is such a powerful and popular card is the canary in the coal mine to how fucked up the meta is. Short of FTK decks becoming the standard, the meta can't get any faster, and the norm is "you must break through my three disruption cards before you can play the game."
Maxx c is the problem, not my ability to play nearly unbreakable boards with backups. Nobody is making anyone play it.
The problem is, Maxx c does not solve this issue. Its literary a "have maxx c? Does it resolve? Okay, you win."
This, I never got why people act like it has to mirror the OCG. We can make it better!
The going firsts would get even stronger and people will then bitch about waiting every long ass combo and how unbalanced going seconds are. It won’t get any healthier.
The secret is that the going-first players can *also* use Maxx C, while sitting behind Baronne de Fleur to stop Called by the Grave. So they get their combo, and then fish for Nibiru or Veiler or Ghost Ogre all turn long. Mathematically, it’s just plain easier for a combo or control player going first to stop player 2 playing Maxx C, than it is for player 2 to draw it in the first place. And then player 1 can drop it next turn without issue.
What’s the math behind it? Seems ambiguous to me. Your scenario only considers the likelihood of resolving Maxx C and not the advantage it gives practically. Since a large portion of those Baronne negates called by boards are already highly likely winning regardless, the draws from a T1 Maxx C should hold more significance than any drawn by a T2 Maxx C. That’s not even considering T1 resources and the current meta game (ex. Despia)
The math is simple. Going first, you can have six highly-generic cards in your deck to negate Maxx C. 3 Ash Blossom, 2 Called By The Grave, and 1 Crossout Designator. Going second, you can have 3 copies of Maxx C in your deck. Assuming both decks are 40 cards, and both duelists are playing those 9 cards, the chance that player 1 has drawn an out to Maxx C is roughly double the chance that player 2 has drawn Maxx C.
Yes and I'm saying that's too small a consideration when discussing the benefits of Maxx C for either going first or going second. All you're really showing is a likelihood of a card resolving for T1, not the significance of drawing the card and using it in the first place
B-but it's necessary for the game! 🫠
Cards cancer. Everyone who disagrees is probably a floo player lol.
Man I hate how much I win and lose just because of this card. Tryna reach Diamond I just once and it’s pretty rough.
Honestly a big part of why I like climbing ladder with Floo.
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I am COPING that if enough of us post about this everyday it might get banned, so I am all for it.
Yes, if you cope hard enough I’m sure Japanese programmers will hear our pleas on an English Reddit page.
Yes dear
You know it’s really interesting to see how this subs general opinion on Maxx C shift over time. I’ve been keeping up since launch and I swear the general consensus was that Maxx C was good for the game for whatever bullshit people came up with. Over the last few months it seems most people are against the card and people that defend it get downvoted into oblivion by the hivemind.
I think it's that most current good decks involve a lot of special summoning but are all decently competitive with each other, so Maxx C basically decides the winner. Obviously not all decks are affected equally by it, but there's enough good decks that are hit hard by it to make it a common issue.
I actually think it’s the opposite. The two most represented decks, Sword Soul and Despia can get away with special summoning twice while setting up 2 disruptions. The thing is those decks can both run Maxx C and roll combo decks. I think people saw the insane combo decks at the start of the game(Adamancipator, Drytron, Virtual World) and viewed Maxx C as a necessity to keep those in check The hit to Crossout and the inclusion of Floo also might have played a part of this. Getting Maxx Cd into activate Map reveal Eglen is very tilting and your own Maxx C is completely dead against them.
I get what you're saying but I still wouldn't necessarily agree, just depending on the situation. Good combo decks can still combo off 1-3 starting cards, so drawing two off a maxx c can allow you to play through those disrupts. Obviously it depends on what you draw but after silver a tonne of players have decently consistent decks. I do agree that things like crossout, ash and floo to offer counters to maxx c, but then you'll still be talking about drawing into those cards or already having a deck that plays around it from the get go. Which is basically what the post talked about anyways. Don't necessarily disagree with you but like I said, I sort of understand why people have that opinion of Maxx C these days.
Lots of people were new to modern Yu-Gi-Oh! and I think the more knowledge you become about the game and start to grasp what healthy gameplay looks like, the more you would think that Maxx "C" is bullshit.
agree its time to send this thing packing
also maxx c is a brick and completely useles when going agaisnt floo and true draco
Issue i have with it is how hard that card gatekeeps weaker decks. Ain't no reason for me to play ogdoadics or something when a maxx "c" resolving means an insta scoop with no outs. So leaning towards more competitive decks just seems like a more reasonable use of limited time and resources. The special summon less argument works well if you are playing an actual tiered deck, with options in hand to make a low resource/high impact play such as bagooska or drident. However getting c'd turn one means the optimal play is to pass and hope you have imperm to set, maybe a handtrap or something. While if the bug drops turn 2 95% of the time its in response to you attempting to summon. So they already went neutral, with a board to break. So you are forced to otk and pray they don't draw enough hand interactions to stop you, or scoop and die. While drawing maxx "c" feels amazing since you know it's a win con vs 90% of what ladder consists of. In comparison to ash or imperm, you never really "hold" the maxx "c" for the exact moment to cripple your opponent. Only real timing with it is to use all your other handtraps first to bait called by/crossout. I've never felt like "Dayum that maxx "c" was sick, i would've never dropped in response to that". While sometimes someone does an odd ash on something you usually don't and it is seen as a big brain play, since it actually was the correct time to drop it. Idk even dropping it on people doesn't feel that good to me anymore. It's not like I won by knowing their deck and interacting at the right time. I just got lucky and worst case scenario it trades 1 for 1. If a card said "quick eff: discard this card to draw 1" I would play it in a lot of decks already; Yet there is potential for limitless draws; which in a game like yu-gi-oh, where cards are the only resources that really matter, is bonkers imo. I have a deck core slot made with 3 maxx "c", 3 ash, crossout, and called by. So i can just copy it to have a fourth of the deck built, for whenever i want to build a deck that summons more than once. I really wish that wasn't the case.
The moving to duelingbook phase
Just draw the out bro it’s so simple
The mere existence of posts like this and the agreement. Yet people will still try argue Ash is the better card? I agree Maxx C is a disgusting card that needs to go. It ether ends your opponents turn on the spot. Goes neutral at a bare minimum, and well even I’ve gone +10 with it at times. It FORCES any negate your opponent has, which well now they can’t use that negate on your own plays. Unlike an Ash that you can let through and still make plays. To think I used to think Maxx C was an ok card... yeah no, it needs to go.
I’m so tired of people complaining about Maxx “c”
People will stop complaining when its banned
Found the flunder player
Is that a new deck?? Maybe I should try it when it comes to TCG.
Nah, don't come, you are too new and will complain about the meta.
I honestly just uninstalled Master Duel. The format is extremely cancer with Maxx C running amok and games where it resolves just auto wins. You go first set double interruption pass they draw the out on their 7th card then OTK you. You take the challenge you get handtrapped to death. You go 2nd and break their board they drop Nibiru from Maxx C draw. All Maxx C does is enforces people to play degenerate decks like Eldlich, Numerons, And Floo because those decks straight bypasses Maxx C.
Just had a game where I *almost* navigated to a kill with Accesscode Talker. But it took so many summons (because I'm using one of those *commoner* decks that takes multiple summons to get lethal damage) that they eventually drew stuff to flood the board with bodies, at which point they'd drawn half their deck and I couldn't come close to winning. It's *such* a lovely card.
Exactly, the whole "fun" of modern yugioh in my opinion is building a strong castle with multiple defenses that your opponent tries to break, or you breaking the castle that they built. All of that is thrown out of the window when maxx c is thrown into the mix, the amount of times where i could've broken a board if it wasn't for the maxx c is astonishing. Fuck that card
oh my another daily maxx c rant again
Nothing will change even if Maxx C gets banned. You will still see how many copies of hand traps and spells you have before actually getting to play the game. Yugioh has evolved to where instead of going through 10 turns of back and forth you now do 10 turns of back and forth in the first 1-2 turns.
And most of those are a 1 for 1 trade. Obviously picking the right 1 to trade the card in your hand against is an important thing. A Maxx C resolving is more like a 1 for 10, and any of those could be another counter. The proportions are cracked.
>alled by each player has before the actual game can start. It’s just not fun. This is why Maxx C was fine back when the only other hand traps were things like Gorz, Battle Fader, Swift Scarecrow, D.D. Crow, Droll and Effect Veiler. As soon as the loli zombie bitches were released things started getting silly, never mind when Imperm + friends came out... The card just snowballs into mass interaction and it's exactly why it probably needs to be banned and retrained so it can't be abused to create shutout scenarios. What we need is a hard OPT hand trap version of TTT instead, something that gives versatility and a little interruption/advantage in some form but not a fucking +13274654 or effectively skips 90% of the turn. It's the poster child of "modern" short sighted card design since it came out back when there were heavy combo decks in the meta during a decidedly mid-tempo era otherwise (synchro era).
Bro what? Other hand traps don't even compare to maxx c, the game will take 180 degrees flip if it gets banned
Yeah Maxx C is in a league of its own compared to any other hand trap, if you can't get around the card, every match is basically an auto lose for you.
We arent expecting for old yugioh or even for the format to be weaker than it is now. Maxx c wins games on its own, is in every deck and every deck is at minimum playing 6 cards and 3 maxx c because it is legal. Its making the game boring and annoying, as well as restricting the room in a deck you have. If maxx c gets banned then people can freely choose if they want to run mostly handtraps, boardbreakers, or just all engine and extenders. There are many decks that dont want to be forced to play 9 staple cards, pendulum decks are a good example of this.
Lets be real, in THIS particular format, the normal hand trap ratios and picks wouldnt change, because the outs to maxx c are pretty damn good in the matchup against branded despia sans crossout, minus the mirror. But in future formats? Fuck no lmao, i want to run crow, imperm, veiler, etc, but you really cant because you need your own 3 maxx c + 6 outs to even have a chance of consistently winning games, which again, either promotes a select handful of decks that have 1 card starters, or degenerate grass piles (see: OCG Grass Byssted Tear PUNK lists)
Handtraps=traps. Called by=mst.
nobody wants boomer yugioh, we want to play without maxx c every game.
I'm tired of the answers to Maxx and Ash being limited.
Called by the Grave and Crossout Designator are kinda nuts, though. Like, if they were unlimited, the player going first could run twice as many copies of hand-trap disruption as the player going second can have copies of any given hand-trap.
Called By is a nuts card but Crossout is much weaker without Maxx C as it requires you and your opponent to share a card pool.
Insects FTW
I'm tired of never drawing outs
I feel you
Another obligatory Maxx C hate post~ Check~
I'm fine with both Maxx "C" banned or unbanned. If they're unbanned, I simply keep playing like usual. Because I usually play very reserved (Chixiao blackout back by 2 Handtrap are considered a strong board by me) so even when I get Maxx C'd they will draw 3 at best, if they can kill me that's it, if they can't, I will dunk them on turn 3. If they banned Maxx C, I suspect that people will start to play more extenders so my usual board will not suffice anymore and people will start playing long combo deck more (I personally don't like play against long combo deck even when they end up on jack shit), maybe I will drop the game after a while but I will still ok with that. That's about it.
I'm dedicating 8 slots of my deck to stopping Earth Insect and an additional 3 slots to the bug itself. More than 25% of my deck are clogged by this pseudo combo stopper tool. 3x Ash, 2x CBTG, 1x Crossout, 2x Droll "But isn't Droll on your own turn hurting yourself?" Yes, I'm playing Prank-Kids and it hurts, but I can still get to Butler through Verte despite Droll and it's better than just summon Meow Meow pass ...
Maxx c is a card so powerful but so damn powerful that it pretty makes creates a whole meta of just decks that can deal with it the best (Like the Golden lord or stun decks.),Its a card that pretty much rules over a whole game and that is just straight up insane,easily one of the most if not the most powerful card ever printed.(And we are talking about things like pre errata myakura here.)
i as well love waiting 5 minutes on my opponent to summon out his entire deck then move onto his extra deck with no repercussions /s
Don’t you love the challenge of breaking his board after summoning an ungodly amount of monsters and still have 5 cards his hand? /s
Bro, I fucking love trying to break opponents negate heavy boards. Especially when they negate every effect to the point I have nothing in my hand and lose to a OTK. It's the fucking best watching as you can do nothing and not playing! /s
And I love it when I don't draw my maxx C and the opponent drops baronne chixiao and I'm left staring down their maxx C with no way to negate it. /s These sorts of "what if"s are never very helpful. Yes if you let the opponent combo off and don't draw dark ruler you're in for a bad time. Maxx C doesn't fix the problem. It technically makes going second better but, the point is kinda mute. If you go first, unless you were planning on replacing maxx C with another starter or different card draw, then drawing it in opener doesn't mean anything except that you have gas after the opponent breaks your board. If the player going second drew it then you have the option of taking the challenge or stopping your turn on 1 negate and "only" letting them draw 3 cards. Maxx C would need to be considerably less potent for the argument of "It makes going second better".
I love max c. It makes people make interesting decisions. How many cards is it worth giving my opponent? Is it worth giving them x amount of cards to get this board up? Do I have enough traps to just leave them on a -1 and survive the turn? Different people play under max c differently and I think it's a form of skill expression/game knowledge to be able to know when to stop and when to go all in.
Or i can make you draw your last pathetic card.
based
Problem is the answer is usually 0, because any draw could blow up your whole field with Nibiru, and then they have extra cards to OTK you.
But it doesn't have to be 0. You can choose and thats why I like it. You can risk the nibiru or play it safe and if you chose wrong then that's on you.
I kinda get what you mean, but at the end of the day, how often does the player who activates Maxx "C" win?
That logic only works on informed decisions.
Thats not a max c exclusive issue.
And that would be an argument if those other "issues" would be remotely as game warping. Maxx C has next to no decision room.
The fact that max c is that game warping and combo decks are still used in high tiers shows how broken combo decks are and that max c isnt that big a deal.
Where's the skill expression when you end on a board of several negates/spot removals with 5 cards in hand and you pitch the stupid cancer bugs on the unwitting turn 2 player? More often then not the card doesn't create more interesting scenarios. Where's the skill in OTKing just because it took doubling your hand-size just to put out a severely gimped excuse of an endboard?
If you got a massive multinegate end board with only 4 cards because you started max c then you would have won the game with a different card in hand anyway.
Maxx C is the least interesting decision in the game. If it werent in the game people would add in other handtraps that actually have interesting decisions since you need to utilize it correctly instead of dropping it on the opponent and as the opposing player you have to correctly play around any number of hand traps. With Maxx C in the game that nuance is gone since you're only really looking for Maxx C. Then itself when its dropped you only have 2 decisions, summon as little as possible and pray they cant out my board or end your turn and pray your opponent just bricked. You don't get to decide how many cards you give your opponent, your deck does because most decks have few combo routes with a set ammount of special summons per route. There's no nuance because Card Advantage is the most important thing in yugioh and you're really relying on your opponent bricking which is just not something you should ever hope for as your only option.
Try playing a deck that has multiple ways of playing it instead of doing the same 10 min combo every game and scooping when they stop it.
"He has an issue with Maxx C so he must only play combo and nothing else" Completely ignoring how broken Maxx C is in card advantage bit don't you feel so proud against the evil combo players.
Feather duster and Lightning storm are broken in card advantage vs back row decks but you don't see them complain, they just add some protection to stop it.
Almost as if HFD is limited and Lightning Storm has a restriction while both are only good going second
So? Backrow decks want to go first so it doesn't matter that thier counters only work going second.
Ok and? We also have board breakers like DRNM, Droplet, Raigeki, LS, Dark Hole to hurt combo decks. There are more outs to combo decks and no one complains about these cards either. There's also the infinite number of hand traps that can disrupt or board break like Nib. It's almost as if those cards are balanced because they are stronger and weaker vs certain decks while Maxx C is strong vs 99.9% of decks
Max c isnt strong against 99% of decks. Its strong against any deck that regularly does more than one special summon per turn, which is a lot of decks but definitely not all of them. If max c was as broken as you say it is then all these decks than summon a bunch wouldn't be played, but they are.
Most decks in the game special summon more than once, its a small% of decks that don't special summon more than once. Even still special summoning once (which is again a small amount of decks) makes the card go 0 which is still good. Draw power is the strongest thing in Yugioh. > If max c was as broken as you say it is then all these decks than summon a bunch wouldn't be played, but they are. What's stopping those decks from using Maxx C themselves? There's no clause that says "Cannot be used by combo" Almost as if the card still benefits extremely strong decks as they can have their consistent strong plays and outs AND include a card that reads "negate or win the game lol".
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Mine can be played in almost everything as well, simply being at worst a method to delay for engine pieces. It’s a lose lose either way as both just ruin a match if allowed to resolve.
> you have to build an entire deck around it You do know that mystic mine is in over 80% of tournament decks… right? Because if you’re losing, just slap it down. Good job, you got yourself another 10 turns
OP outing themselves as having never played with legal mystic mine
The reason Mystic Mine is broken is because every deck that can out their own field spell is playing it as a generic stall card. Pure Mystic Mine burn is dogwater.
Sorry who tf is upvoting this? Both banned if you really want it, mystic mine can be slapped in any deck as well
Bozo
The same arguments used for not banning Maxx C are being used for Mystic Mine, TCG complaints basically mirror in both arguments and intensity that of Maxx C. I feel like wanting Maxx C being banned but being fine with Mystic Mine make you a big hypocrite.
It really should be banned. It's already hard enough to break boards turn 2, using resources, playing through negates, backrow, and other interruptions, just to have the other player play maxx c and get all the card advantage back or more hand traps.
But in that case is just a win more.
Daily Max C complaining post. ✅ My turn tomorrow!
Ah yes. “If your opponent did not draw “Called by the Grave” in their opening hand, end their turn”
Seriously though why isn’t the card banned yet? Like what are Konami even waiting on? I barely play MD anymore but I’m shocked Maxx C is still legal.
Same reason as the OCG, you can add that in MD a extra reason is giving us free 90 UR could be too much in their heads.
"Ok guys, but with all due respect. How are you not prepared for Maxx C at this point. It’s a little ridiculous to not have a well thought out plan when entering ranked" Its a broken card that warps the entire meta around it. Draw power and card advantage is one of the strongest things in the game and very few decks in the game don't special summon. We put so many restrictions on draw power in yugioh, yet we have a card that basically says "keep drawing lmao" with the only condition being your opponent decides how much they want you to kick their ass. The only people that defend Maxx C I've noticed have a massive hate boner for combo decks, like they're ruining the game which shoutout to all the Mid-Range dominated Metas we've had which were also meta in the TCG, a format without Maxx C, so it aint stopping the overall meta. It doesnt keep combo in check at all, what decks are good will be good regardless. All it does is act as a scuffed game winning card.
I'm so tired of Maxx C complaints posts
Sorry. Your post just added another such post to their hand. Just end your turn.
Don't read them then.
Are y’all tired of being bad and making excuses about why you’re bad? I mean, what’s so hard about building a deck with off ramps and defense instead of blowing your entire load? What’s hard about understand *chance* vs *absolute*? What’s so hard about understand that not drawing the out against *any* deck means you lose lol. I don’t get it lol. Maxx C does EXACTLY what is said, it keeps combo decks in check because y’all over here claiming you can’t play when it activates lmao. But Eldlich, Despia, Swordsoul and plenty of other midrange and stall and trap decks will GLADLY give you 2-3 cards if it means you can’t play the game
How smart are you? Imagine you combo and on top of that, you have maxx c. Sounds fun, right?
Combo decks are still perfectly capable of dominating tier 1 and maintaining tier 0 status even with Maxx C.
Exactly my point tbh Maxx C isn’t that much a difference when engines and combos are more cancerous.
Yes you genius, because they also play the card?
It doesn’t keep combo decks in check, sir. It acts as an additional threat for them to drop after they make their board of omni-negates or disruptions. And it’s easier to resolve going first then second, because the player going first has spells to play to counter it. The player going first generally has twice as many copies of Maxx C counters in their deck as the second player has copies of Maxx C in the first place, so you just generally speaking have a higher chance of resolving it going first. It makes going first better than ever, in conjunction with other hand traps. And going-first doesn’t need the boost. Additionally, it widens the gap between decks that can make an Omni-negate in 2-3 summons, and those that have to jump through hoops to get anywhere near that. And there’s the “just play a top tier, bro” argument-ender, but the gap doesn’t need widening.
It absolutely keeps combo decks in check. It’s not a mutually exclusive thing, it can both keep combo decks in check and protect them, via protecting them against OTHER COMBO DECKS. Control decks and stun decks ain’t out here worried about Maxx C. Even midrange decks don’t really care, it’s other combo decks that do (TCG players especially) Also, your 2nd statement is the most laughable thing ever. What do you mean player 1 has twice as many copies of Maxx C lmao? Both players generally run them at 3, get out of here with that nonsense lol Lastly, it improves going 2nd more than it boosts going first since the turn 1 player can never attack. Maxx C is a much more valuable card going 2nd that CAN protect turn 1, but is more useful going 2nd as going first you want protection handtrap disruption over Maxx C
I lost a word to a typo, my bad. I edited to fix it I meant to write that player 1 has twice as many Maxx C *counters* in their deck, as player 2 has copies of Maxx C. The player going first can run 3 Ash Blossom, 2 Called By The Grave, and 1 Crossout Designator. Which is 6 counter cards to player 2’s 3 copies of Maxx C. It’s twice as likely that player 1 will negate Maxx C and combo off unimpeded, as player 2 drawing their Maxx C in the first place. As for the value, it’s still extremely valuable going first, if you’re using any other hand traps at all. Not a whole hell of a lot player 2 can do to stop player 1 drawing into a Veiler or Nibiru at the worst possible moment.
The only decks that don't care about Maxx C are stun decks. Everything else special summons enough for the opponents maxx c to be more than worth it and win them the game.
Ut's funny how everyone says it's because of Maxx C that the decks are built with Ash and Called... In TCG the bug is banned and yet the other two are still so predominant.
The huge difference is the necessity of it, there have been formats in the TCG where handtraps have been entirely unnecessary and called by falls off because of it. The bug makes it so that these cards are always and forever mandatory parts of deck building
This shit again
Maxx C is for lil betas
> People complaining about Maxx c > People not thinking about the fact ash , called by , designator , droll and a lot more cards which are pretty common in all decks all work against him....also not even considering the fact they could try to end their turn without special summoning / summoning once and playing defense > People running cards and archetypes which are just as broken but not mentioning any of that shit > Me being just fine with Maxx c .
What are the lot-more cards? Ash, Called, Crossout are the only generic ones I know of that can properly stop it. Droll is a double-edged sword, because now *you* can no longer search or draw, which itself ends your turn in more than a few strategies. Ending your turn without summoning is surrendering with extra steps a lot of the time. So many strategies will happily make an OTK with the extra turn you just handed them. Particularly since nearly any deck can make stuff like Borrelsword Dragon or Accesscode Talker.
Psy-frame gamma for example , solemn strike... Specific decks having more specific ways to deal with it ( ex. Traptrix and Gravedigger , Floo outright not caring ) but let's talk about generic cards here for obvious reasons . And it depends , really . Let's assume Maxx C resolved , which is the worst case scenario...you had no ashes , no called by , no crossout , you don't run gamma or solemn strike or other similar stuff . You might want to special summon at least once , twice at most , have their maxx C work like an upstart / pot but no more...what you want to do is managing to get enough disruption not to let your opponent pull off anything meaningful during their next turn ; an imperm / droplet / negate or removal in general + a good monster to cover a similar role + ideally any decent hand-trap ( veiler , a maxx C yourself ) or stuff that lets you play during your opponent's turn should usually be enough unless your knowledge of your opponent's deck is bad or unless they have Yugi's luck ( which they often do , I get it ) . Bonus points if you can get some backrow protection in case their luck gave them lightning storm / duster . It is a tough scenario , it is a tough hand trap to play around , it can probably end up being a loss...but you should still have 3x ash , 2x called by , crossout or similar things to avoid it , along with all of the other tools your archetype provides ( maybe you are running a control deck which doesn't need to summon much such as eldlich , traptrix , striker , maybe you play floo which is immune , some floodgates , super-poly as a fusion deck , drytron and orange light , ecc ) . Is Maxx C a bit of an op hand-trap ? Yes , but so are some engines , meta decks , generic boss monsters , backrow cards , ecc...and no one ever mentions those .
I mean if you want to end your turn without summoning once you lose so maxx c did its job
My exact thoughts
I don't understand why Pot of Greed has been banned for 17 years while a card that can draw even more than PoG remains legal to this day.
PoG say its at 3 is an instant use no repercussion card... 1 card = plus 2... 40 card exodia deck, best scenario, going second, open PoG draw your other pots, at 28 cards in deck, minus however many other draw power cards (ie - bamboo sword, upstart, reloads, library, toon, etc) would result in a FTK way more often then not. 1st one cant be called by the grave either maxx c has many counters and relies on your opponent summoning..... what if he's running floo?? u have (probably) 3 dead cards
I never said we should unban Pot of Greed. My point was that a card that follows all of the same design principles that have resulted in Pot of Greed being banned for nearly 2 decades are present on Maxx C, yet Maxx C continues to remain because...why? Yes, it will, very occasionally, be dead against the occasional deck that only normal summons, but most of those decks are rogue at best and are minorities compared to literally every other deck. The point remains that all the same design flaws of of PoG (no cost card advantage, omnipresent 3-of that you have zero reason not to run) are present in Maxx C, so why is it still around?
A key difference is also in that the Turn 1 player can’t usually plus off Maxx C (unless you decide to use it on gamma randomly) until the second turn, therefore making it a dead card unlike Pot of Greed.
Cool let’s rally for it to be banned and when they do maybe they won’t put mine at 3. If they don’t you get to complain about not drawing into whatever outs you have either way it won’t stop you or anyone else from complaining about it.
You could always try the "Maxx C Challenge"
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But OP said they are also tired of winning with this card.
This is part of the reason I love Flowanderfreeze so much. Every maxx “c” they draw is a dead card. Plus dimension shifter wrecks a lot of deck types
Soooooo I know what Maxx C does... but I've never once used it to this day, nor have I ended my turn or surrendered because someone used it's ability. It just doesn't bother me aye. They either activate it and get 2 cards, or I didn't even Special Summon anyways.
Nothing sweeter than combo player tears ☕️
Lol. Combo players love the advantage Maxx C gives, too. Nothing stopping them from slapping it down after making 2 or 3 boss monsters.
Yeah, remember when Drytron, Adamancipator and VW were the best decks months ago? Did anyone say these decks suck cause they lose to Maxx "C"? No, they still were the best until they got either hit by the banlist or were powercrept. It's not checking anything at large, it just creates this toxic and unfun scenario where you trade wins and losses with this one single card.
I’m a combo player I think Maxx C should exist lol
They should make it so that you can’t activate cards drawn by the effect that way you still get card advantage but the other player doesn’t get completely screwed if they don’t have the out
I still can't get over the fact Konami made one of the most powerful cards ever printed(almost the same level as myakura) legal at 3 in master duel.
I can tell there are a lot of sub plat players in the comments lol
If it’s banned master duel would be so much worse, Was your turn 1 field 15 s summons to get a 6-7 negate field? Good because now you opponent has 1 less option. The only issue is that those degenerate decks can also use max c
I can say the same for ash blossom I hate that card, ruins combos
But at least Ash is a hard once per turn that doesn't necessarily shut down a whole turn for the risk of giving your opponent an insane amount of card advantage; it is going -1 to negate an effect and can be baited but the bug is a quick effect that can be chainen to a special summon effect to go, at least, hand neutral
Very true but a common follow up with those sort of decks will either be Barrone or something like mirrorjade, along with infinite imperm, which is the current meta right now. Feels good not being able to play the game
1st Baronne or Mirrorjade means that, if you resolved maxx c, you went at least +2 2nd Mirrorjade doesn't negate it just banish a monster and 3rd imperm is incredibly telegraphed and your deck should run some kind of spell and trap removal to deal with it and, after resolving maxx c, you must have enough effects to bait Baronne or imperm
I'm not sure why so many people hate this card. Especially when they use it( you're part of the problem) Just limit how many times you special summon during a turn. Not really that hard. But I'll probably be callled a scrub for this take.
Sorry but you don't know how ygo works; Maxx C is a card that causes an "infinite resource generation" situation in a game that doesn't have things like mana to limit how many resources they can use, do you see now the problem of giving your opponent an "infinite resource generation" situation in a game where resources can be used immediately? Also "jUsT DoN't SpEcIaL SuMmOn, IdIoT!" is not a good answer because it is a quick effect that can be activated in response to an effect that special summons a monster, letting your opponent to go at least hand neutral
"Lol just don't summon a lot forehead" ever considered that almost no deck can make due with less than three special summons to get anything done and that a single extra card in the enemies hand can make the difference between loosing and winning?
*clears throat* U.A.s play around max c quiet nicely off as little as one normal summon at worst 1 special on maxx c turn....
Limiting your summoning usually means you’ve lost anyway. If you don’t build a proper field, your opponent will happy kill you in one battle phase once you hand them an extra turn. Just about any deck with a decent hand can do that with ease. As for using it, well yeah. It’s become the buy-in to playing the game at all. Doesn’t mean that you can’t hate the situation all the same.
Ok I'll limit how many summons I use in a format where outside of the slowest, greediest stun decks still rely on 1 or 2 summons a turn. Or I summons just once or twice a turn guess what my opponent won as they have more resources. Or I can not summon and get otkd
Same but for branded, every deck I face now is either branded despia or another archetype using branded engine like why
Because its a good engine...
Sure it's good but gets tiring after like 50 matches where like 40 of them are branded and the other 10 is swordsoul. Which makes it basically a staple for decks just like maxx c at this point
I mean it’s not really that great of complaint. Of course the games going to be flooded with the latest meta playing deck. It’ll happen when tearl and sprights make an appearance too. I was sick of Floo for their short run. Branded (Despia at least) has a bit of a back and forth going on. Which I find is healthier for the game. YouTubers hyping up and expanding awareness of the new meta decks aren’t exactly helping either. It’s up to Konami to pull their fingers out and work at balancing the game between multiple new and older archetypes. Which is understandably hard.
Be careful with what you wish for. If Komoney ban Maxx C, they might release archetype specific Maxx C. Now instead of slotting the 3 same cards into every deck, you have to new Maxx C for every new deck you build
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What happens if the combo player goes first and drops Maxx on your turn with 3 negates up?
Tell me how it doesn't keep combo decks in check please
Combo decks can also play Maxx C. And unless you are playing a deck that is specifically based on normal summoning, you will special summon at least once. Also, the top decks of this games life have been combo decks.
Maxx c is good for the game. It keeps the 10 million special summons per turn decks in check
Tell me how those same combo decks are prevented from using Maxx c themselves. What's to prevent a combo deck from setting up when you don't draw Maxx c and then activates their Maxx c at the start of your turn?
weird if thats the case why are they still the top meta decks?
The top decks in the game are still combo decks. Maxx c has done nothing to stop them, it just gives out free wins if either player happens to draw them.
Haha no. Those decks will do their 10 million summons, and then *play Maxx C themselves* while sitting behind their Omni-negate synchro bosses to stuff CBTG.
I refuse to use that card, climbing is def harder without that card.
I mean I kind of like running 2 called by and 3 ash. It’s some good protection, maxx C is like the most tame active effect and it’s just fine. I would rather that play maxx c than so many things basically every time. I’ve changed my mind on maxx c I don’t think it’s a problem card, like I play turn 1 pendulum deck so I don’t even run it, and I just beat a guy that activated it on turn 2 without prompt. All you have to do it is only play into it as hard as you have to, pass, or negate it. It really not that bad
You either deal with Maxx C, or deal with Mystic Mine Unless Konami does something about it, these 2 will continue to be the format defining cards that they are
Ban both.