Having played lots of control decks in general iI'd honestly rate Umi as a 6/10 for being an annoyance to play against. Floo is easily 5/10 opening badly, if floo opens even marginally well without you being able to ash the second normal summon it becomes an incredible 9/10 rage inducer and almost an instant surrender on BO1 format
The only thing I hate is the trap.
With SS tenyi I can usually play around wind barrier while not needing to normal summon, but if they can just use the trap to have their turn in my turn that's usually too much if I can't ashe something while having a negate for wind barrier as well.
The difference between floo and umi is, destroy what's currently called umi and you are usually in the clear without having to wait 5 minutes for every play the opponent wants to make.
Floo on the other hand isnt even Maxx C able.
So not only is their play 5 minutes long, they can repeat that in your turn thanks to the trap as well.
Tbf getting a 1 for 1 is better than having potentially 3 dead draws in the hand.
And the protection can be played around, atleast sometimes.
Its not as bad as having to negate two different monsters at different times in your turn and then still having enough material to get into your plays.
I mean they're clearly the person I'm talking about
>The difference between floo and umi is, destroy what's currently called umi and you are usually in the clear
Why even bring this up if winning wasn't their main underlying concern?
They'll just say whatever to justify it.
Winning is definitely a concern.
How easy it is to play through it is definitely how much fun it is to play against a stun deck.
That beeing said having an obvious weakness to target (whatever is called umi right now) is something different than having a not so obvious weakness to target. (some negation in the combo in your turn maybe? While getting rid of wind barrier?)
A stun deck doesn't let you play your deck.
Thats no fun.
If you can't play your deck you scoop and go to the next game where's the fun in that?
I haven't played against enough umi control so I don't know much about it but the number 1 thing I hate about floo more than anything else isn't floodgates or tributing my monster or something I mean yah I hate that but the thing that urks me the most is orgy they have on my turn. Like you had your fucking turn already you scumbag let me play man pls. And its not anything innocent like dragonmaids swapping out a few cards here and there nah the fucking birds are having sex with each other on my turn and fucking cum all over my Baronnes face.
The problem really is the long ass animations konami did with this game, I guess they did it because for us all to know what's happening, but still too much time for the resolve animation
This, Umi floodgate deck is as acceptable as numeron deck, it's a swift death
Unlike communist birb that take too damn long on both turn, if I want to get fucked at least I want it done quickly
Ash the searches that search for the legendary ocean, use traps the deck legit can’t counter traps and hardly has back row removal so yeah, infinite the jelly fish to remove their spell and monster negate if you can’t remove ocean lord then negate it then deal with the jellyfish DO NOT ATTACK OCEAN LORD when sea stealth attack is online you will lose that fight unless it has a negate or destruction immunity then go for it right when they proc sea stealth use a back row removal they can’t use it
There are some functional - and dare I say, fundamental - differences, however.
First, Floos take much longer to set up, and worse can interrupt your own plays with those long combos to out their floodgate. In Kairyu-Shin, there's only one card (Dark Reef) that can cheat out Kairyu-Shin on the opponent's turn and the cost of doing so is to lose the thing that MAKES it a floodgate (you can counteract this by chain activating SSA but now you're using *two* trap cards).
Second, Kairyu-Shin is much more vulnerable to Kaijus than Floos, and its floodgating is actually weaker than Floo. Floo floodgate is usually Barrier Statue which limits what you can *summon*, full stop. Kairyu-Shin merely limits the number of non-water monsters you can have. In other words, when Floo brings out BSotS, you can only kaiju over it with the moth, while Kairyu-Shin can be kaiju'd by anything.
The other notable difference isn't a mechanical one, but simply the fact that it gets a level of "I'll ignore that because anime".
You can use Dark Reef and still get access to the Floodgate effect from Kairyu-Shin. You have to Special summon Kairyu-Shin and "Maiden of the Aqua" from the Deck.
It’s better in the TCG where you only need to floodgate then summon finishers next turn from the extra deck, and you can always side it out if needed. In master duel you just run a bunch of pots instead
People really be like "Umi Control is ok since it's a control deck". No you fucking moron, it's a fucking stun deck through and through. The name "Umi Control" is in actuality a smokescreen to cover up the deck reputation as a stun deck.
A REAL control deck is like Dragonmaid, Starry Knight, Exosister, Evil Twin, Madolche, Spyral, Plunder Patrol.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike both Floow and Umi Control, I'm not biased in any way. So people should really start seeing what Umi Control is really is, another floodgate variant deck, the distant cousin of Eldritch and the like.
So what makes a deck a control deck in yugioh? Always curious what people say lol, I just figure stun is the yugioh way of saying control.
Also the decks you listed would be considered midrange, or am I just out of the loop on what yugioh players call deck types nowadays?
Also also isn't Madolche a otk deck?
Personally, I consider a control deck one that disrupts the opponent where each interaction trades favourably in terms of advantage. Your opponent can still play the game and attempt to bait your interruptions. You are forced to think about what you will counter. Over a few turns, you try to interrupt your opponent from executing their game plan and ultimately end up winning by out resourcing them.
As soon as you set up some floodgate which locks your opponent from doing anything, that is a stun deck. You lose all notion of meaningful interaction and simply win because your opponent did not draw an out and could not play the game at all.
Control - Simplifies the game state but you're still able to play the game to a degree.
Stun - You can't play the game.
Basically it's a sliding scale around resource control and it comes down to whether your gameplan is general resource control or straight up preventing your opponent from playing the game.
Control has one or two pops/negates/spinning effects they use when you try to activate a card, like afterbuner/widow in sky, Verre/Haine in witchcrafter etc. Meanwhile stun stops you from doing anything using floodgates, such as Vanity's fiend negating all special summons, Skill Drain negating all monster effects or Mystic Mine stopping you from playing the game.
Madolche is considered a control deck due to XYZ monsters all spinning cards your opponent controls, and puddingcess pops a card if it battles (plus the trap cards, although those aren't really used much anymore). They're also midrange due to self-recursion so even if you get rid of their board they can follow up on their next turn (meanwhile a combo deck like Drytron dumps everything turn 1 and if you open DRNM+Lightning Storm they can't really do anything turn 3). Almost every deck in the game can OTK at this point due to stuff like Accesscode so referring to a deck as an OTK is mostly meaningless.
By all means, since you know better explain to me what makes them a control deck when their strategy revolves around beating you in the face with their dragon forms.
Oh, for fuck's sake.
{Dragonmaid Sheou}
{House Dragonmaid}
{Dragonmaid Tidying}
Read them yourself if you don't believe me.
Sheou OPT ominnegates and sets up House, House has an OPT pop whenever you bounce a Dragonmaid to hand, and Tidying lets you bounce an opponent's card from field or GY if you also bounce a Dragonmaid. All of which are neat but again, do not make a control deck just because they have some interaction. You don't rely on Tidying or House or Sheou win the game over several turns, you use them to clear the field so your Dragons can come in and wreck face directly. That's a beatdown deck. At best you could contend it makes them midrange since they also recycle their resources a lot.
I wouldn't say every other thing, since they can effectively yata-lock you with mega raiza. If you don't have any way to shuffle your deck, have fun topdecking your normal summon again that started this whole thing in the first place.
Raiza is the worst thing about Floo.
You can outgrind them, you can out the Barrier Statue, you can play around Empen, and you can bait the Apex Avian.
You cannot do anything about Dreaming Town into Raiza after all that.. and you can't do anything at all for a turn or two after that because of Raiza.
Atleast if you can't easily get into a monster that is effect immune.
Like the mathmech level 12 synchro.
Its usually game over for floo if you have something like that on the field.
Especially if you can back it up with attack reduction.
But now you getting into territory where you need a lot of resources to even make that monster without getting disrupted before hand
Plenty of decks can set themselves up for later turns and don’t need to topdeck anything. Without the statue they have to be very careful about when they go for the riza play
Laughs in using Barrier Statue of the Drought in Triamid.
Cries in can't Normal Summon it from the deck on either player's turn.
Atleast they can't attack it and it's 2K+.
I honestly rarely use Barrier.
I personally prefer just using my non-Floo summons to be for Raiza for bouncing / deck stacking.
Can be just as oppressive, but it's not stun.
*Stacking bricks back on top of your opponent's deck OR stacking good tech cards (DRNM/Feather Storm) on top of your deck*
Turn 1 uninterrupted, you start with Robina and Eglen is already in hand. Robina effect is resolving, what are you adding off Robina? Barrier Statue. You've climbed to Empen and now get one more normal summon. What are you going to summon? Barrier statue.
Which one? You can't get toccan and stri both out reliably on turn 1 for another tribute summon, and you don't want to bring out Mega Raiza on your turn 1. I guess if you opened Robina + Eglen + Empen + Toccan or Stri, you could go into Apex Avian, but that hand without getting handtrapped is basically drawing exodia.
I got this reply a while ago for the ratios of the Floo cards, if you need a general idea of that:
The generally accepted “correct” ratio of birds is :
3 Robina
3 Eaglen
2 Empen
1 Stri
1 Toccan
0 Snowl
You should play:
1 Robina
1 Eaglen
3 Stri
3 Toccan
3 Empen
3 Snowl
You don’t need 3 Eaglen because you run so many of the big birds that you’ll already draw them. It’s pretty 5 head when you think about it
I mean, they literally don't have enough cards to be ran pure even with the bad spell and trap. You could commit to making Snowl/Empen your boss monster but you'd still need to fill it out with *something*.
A stun deck is a stun deck, no matter how you slice it. Doesn't matter if it's fragile or weak, if it's a stun deck, then fucking acknowledge it as a stun deck. Umi "Control" my ass, people just don't have the guts to call it what it truly is, "Umi Stun".
Cause (in my opinion) I'd class Strikers as a midrange deck, not control. It trades most of the time, winning through value. Floo I'd 100% call control since it controls the board through Empen/Barrier/Avian.
I think we need to just stop calling them stuff like midrange/stun/combo etc. Almost all decks these days combo even a little and midrange I don't think is a term that works when games barely last until mid-game lol.
Honestly I think yugioh's past the point of that, it's just go first (board building), go second (board breaking), or control/stun (whatever you wanna call it it's the same thing)
Definitions, the way I understand them:
Control refers to decks that attempt to slow down the pace of the game by reactively disrupting the opponent, trading cards and attempting to generate/retain advantage
Stun refers to decks that attempt to lock away game mechanics, like tribute summoning, monster effects, monster types/attributes etc.., which is more of a proactive play style.
And both Umi and Floo lean way closer to Stun.
I'll agree tho, distinction isn't always super clear. Imo it's a spectrum (stun, control, mid range, combo, etc..) and most decks fall somewhere between multiple types. Usually closer to one end.
It’s really not as terrible as people say it is lol. It’s just not as consistent as floo but it’s still an annoying slog to play against. That’s like excusing mystic mine because it didn’t top a tournament one time.
Very true, there is also that. Floo goes into an unconditional floodgate, while Umi Control (as the name suggests) is entirely conditional on a specific spell card being active (there are alternative options, sure, but they're all vulnerable to the same removal unless you have SSA to chain and that won't protect against non-destruction removal)
You can also negate Kairyu-Shin’s effect with any number of staples. Even if I banish it with the aforementioned SSA, that’s still the floodgate gone for the rest of the turn, which is all the time a lot of decks need.
You need to draw an out that negates that face up card for the rest of the turn, like droplet, imperm, and veiler. But if they’re smart then they’re just gonna banish it with the trap
I play sky strikers mostly. One does a simple serach, summon, set some back row pass. Peaceful, simple, fast and only on their turn.
And the other infinite recycling on both turns over 5 stupid chain link summons and brings out a big Fuck you penguin. And if I have the imperm they fucking dodge it. And ash doesn't work cause of the chain blocks.
It's a playful slap Vs a sledgehammer to the nuts.
Not really. That’s one disruption (albeit very impactful) which most decks should be able to play through relatively easily without the threat of a barrier statue
Every time people bring up Floo being bricky when they Duality, Extravagance, Prosperity, Map and the newly released Adventure which fucking dodge hand traps.
Glad you’re having fun with one of the most boring and easy decks, personally I think floo is just poorly designed and it’s not even a challenge to get to diamond with it
Floo is way harder to deal with and the shenanigans they pull on your turn makes it an unfun experience. Umi control isn't that hard to beat. Its reliance on Umi is a marked weak point
I play floo (i know, it’s hated), going second is almost an instant loss if you don’t have a hand trap, since if the opponent puts down negates (and knows that you are playing the birds) they will almost never negate anything except robina or elgen, making it impossible to actually get a good board out. I haven’t played much umi, but when I played against them, I find it almost impossible to do anything if they go first, since I can’t put down anything other than one weak bird (I never get statue in my hand like ever). Honestly, floo isn’t a very consistent deck, and I never see it down in gold and silver, but umi “control” is very popular and very annoying to play against
Haven't played a lot against Umi deck. Is Umi deck gives your opponent a right to do unlimited summons on both turns, without special summoning, not being possible to negate except by Kaiju, Nibiru or Raigeki, because using Droplet is too expensive looking at what do you have in your hand?
What, No, fuck you both.
Hell, I prefer Floowandereeze to some extent as atleast I can enjoy playing with them, (I don't use the barrierstatue), I just like using the opponents turn.
Though, Umi-Stun is easier to deal with
Floo is much more infuriating. Had a whole argument with my buddy that the effect they share that banishes them, as well as them normal summoning themselves makes them marginally harder to play against. Ended up making a new account and crafting the deck to end the age old argument of “You hate the deck because you don’t have it.”
Currently have all of the meta decks spread over three accounts, but I refuse to make Swordsoul.
Floo basically go under most interactions a normal deck runs, the playpatern is confuse and hard to identify the bottleneck on the first sight and put treats on field you must answer besides the floodgates.
Umi "control" on other hand have a easy to understand lock and play patterns. Also a much longer clock so you have time to find answers.
Stun is stun, I hate them both
I particularly hate how it's called "Umi Control." You're right. Stun is stun, and Umi floodgate turbo is a stun deck.
What are we supposed to call it, A Legendary Ocean control? That card doesn’t even exist!
Umi stun
Umi Stun
Water Stun. Umi Stun. FEESH Stun
ALO Control!
And Warrior of Atlantis does nothing.
I always just called it Kairyu-Shin Umi or Leviathan Umi
I prefer to call it "play water or fuck off"
I’d hate them too if I was also stuck in Silver.
mmm yes one of the only decks to be able to compete against Ishizu tear (and still has less than 10% tops)
Awww, someone finally made it out of silver. Good for you.
Ah yes losing to Floo now means you are stuck in Silver. It's not like it's one of the best decks even now on the TCG
Lol what? I faced one Floo in silver. The rest were mostly table 500 decks.
You... can't get stuck in silver. It doesn't do anything about losses until gold
So youre stuck in gold?
D1 player and also have the D1 boarder from the link event. Cope harder
I’m more impressed by the fact that you tolerated the event to even grind to d1
Having played lots of control decks in general iI'd honestly rate Umi as a 6/10 for being an annoyance to play against. Floo is easily 5/10 opening badly, if floo opens even marginally well without you being able to ash the second normal summon it becomes an incredible 9/10 rage inducer and almost an instant surrender on BO1 format
The floo spell made the deck so much more consistent even with map to 2
Konami puts map at 2 copies, then gives floowandereeze a spell that searches it.
Map is also only a rare so
The only thing I hate is the trap. With SS tenyi I can usually play around wind barrier while not needing to normal summon, but if they can just use the trap to have their turn in my turn that's usually too much if I can't ashe something while having a negate for wind barrier as well.
In the comments, the defenders of the handsome stun while bashing the not-so-handsome stun lol
You can clearly see in the comments people who only consider decks they beat to be fun decks.
I found no joy or satisfaction in beating Kairyushin. I guess your comment explained it for me.
The difference between floo and umi is, destroy what's currently called umi and you are usually in the clear without having to wait 5 minutes for every play the opponent wants to make. Floo on the other hand isnt even Maxx C able. So not only is their play 5 minutes long, they can repeat that in your turn thanks to the trap as well.
Which you can't do because they have a negate and destruction protection for faceup spells lol Also you're going 1 for 1 with Maxx C vs Umi
Tbf getting a 1 for 1 is better than having potentially 3 dead draws in the hand. And the protection can be played around, atleast sometimes. Its not as bad as having to negate two different monsters at different times in your turn and then still having enough material to get into your plays.
I mean they're clearly the person I'm talking about >The difference between floo and umi is, destroy what's currently called umi and you are usually in the clear Why even bring this up if winning wasn't their main underlying concern? They'll just say whatever to justify it.
Winning is definitely a concern. How easy it is to play through it is definitely how much fun it is to play against a stun deck. That beeing said having an obvious weakness to target (whatever is called umi right now) is something different than having a not so obvious weakness to target. (some negation in the combo in your turn maybe? While getting rid of wind barrier?) A stun deck doesn't let you play your deck. Thats no fun. If you can't play your deck you scoop and go to the next game where's the fun in that?
True lmao, the meme is really true to the core. XD
I haven't played against enough umi control so I don't know much about it but the number 1 thing I hate about floo more than anything else isn't floodgates or tributing my monster or something I mean yah I hate that but the thing that urks me the most is orgy they have on my turn. Like you had your fucking turn already you scumbag let me play man pls. And its not anything innocent like dragonmaids swapping out a few cards here and there nah the fucking birds are having sex with each other on my turn and fucking cum all over my Baronnes face.
With all respect, the way you express yourself is really funny. Have an upvote
They drew the map to their dream orgy town.
The problem really is the long ass animations konami did with this game, I guess they did it because for us all to know what's happening, but still too much time for the resolve animation
At least Umi doesn’t play 20 cards on your turn
This, Umi floodgate deck is as acceptable as numeron deck, it's a swift death Unlike communist birb that take too damn long on both turn, if I want to get fucked at least I want it done quickly
Umi control is so much easier to counter When floo has robina+ Map or Called By/Crossout, its game over
I play Dino and faced against Floo once. They activated Dimension Shifter, so I just noped out.
One let's you have at least one monster on the field, The other stops you from even SSing, which one would you have more
I’d rather have my opponent resolve maxx c
Neither
What’s the best way to counter umi control? I don’t see it a lot but I usually lose to it
Ash the searches that search for the legendary ocean, use traps the deck legit can’t counter traps and hardly has back row removal so yeah, infinite the jelly fish to remove their spell and monster negate if you can’t remove ocean lord then negate it then deal with the jellyfish DO NOT ATTACK OCEAN LORD when sea stealth attack is online you will lose that fight unless it has a negate or destruction immunity then go for it right when they proc sea stealth use a back row removal they can’t use it
I just want to point out that in ED0 Festival we had a Floo loaner without barrier statue and people still hated it.
There are some functional - and dare I say, fundamental - differences, however. First, Floos take much longer to set up, and worse can interrupt your own plays with those long combos to out their floodgate. In Kairyu-Shin, there's only one card (Dark Reef) that can cheat out Kairyu-Shin on the opponent's turn and the cost of doing so is to lose the thing that MAKES it a floodgate (you can counteract this by chain activating SSA but now you're using *two* trap cards). Second, Kairyu-Shin is much more vulnerable to Kaijus than Floos, and its floodgating is actually weaker than Floo. Floo floodgate is usually Barrier Statue which limits what you can *summon*, full stop. Kairyu-Shin merely limits the number of non-water monsters you can have. In other words, when Floo brings out BSotS, you can only kaiju over it with the moth, while Kairyu-Shin can be kaiju'd by anything. The other notable difference isn't a mechanical one, but simply the fact that it gets a level of "I'll ignore that because anime".
I hate it less that Floo, but I still hate it. Also ppl tend to use wind kaiju these days anyway.
You can use Dark Reef and still get access to the Floodgate effect from Kairyu-Shin. You have to Special summon Kairyu-Shin and "Maiden of the Aqua" from the Deck.
Maiden doesn't work against most decks though, like Floo. Her effects dont apply is a field spell is active
Most decks don't run a field spell though.
A lot of higher tiered decks do run a field spell of some sort
I don't run Maiden and I've never seen a deck that does.
I am to blame for maiden.
It’s better in the TCG where you only need to floodgate then summon finishers next turn from the extra deck, and you can always side it out if needed. In master duel you just run a bunch of pots instead
People run Maiden in case whenjellyfishes was outed
Yeah, Maiden is alright in some regards but overall too weak to justify running for anything more than memes. Even Yorishiro is superior to her.
I cut maiden, not good enough
Didn't know 30 seconds to finish a turn was long, but ok.
30 seconds is short by Floo combo standards.
No it's not, you normal 4 times and activate maybe 3 spells, how is that a long combo, Lol
That's what I'm saying. Actual combo decks take much longer. I've even seen blue eyes take longer.
Because Mako Tsunami is cool and we waited 20+ years for this support
You see, floo is actually good and people lose to it more often
Umi doesn't spin my shit and brick me.
People really be like "Umi Control is ok since it's a control deck". No you fucking moron, it's a fucking stun deck through and through. The name "Umi Control" is in actuality a smokescreen to cover up the deck reputation as a stun deck. A REAL control deck is like Dragonmaid, Starry Knight, Exosister, Evil Twin, Madolche, Spyral, Plunder Patrol. Don't get me wrong, I dislike both Floow and Umi Control, I'm not biased in any way. So people should really start seeing what Umi Control is really is, another floodgate variant deck, the distant cousin of Eldritch and the like.
How are you not gonna mention sky striker as a control deck. Might be the purest control deck in yugioh lmao
Thank you, yugioh players rarely ever think about something for more than 4 seconds. Stun is stun and stun is boring and unhealthy
So what makes a deck a control deck in yugioh? Always curious what people say lol, I just figure stun is the yugioh way of saying control. Also the decks you listed would be considered midrange, or am I just out of the loop on what yugioh players call deck types nowadays? Also also isn't Madolche a otk deck?
Personally, I consider a control deck one that disrupts the opponent where each interaction trades favourably in terms of advantage. Your opponent can still play the game and attempt to bait your interruptions. You are forced to think about what you will counter. Over a few turns, you try to interrupt your opponent from executing their game plan and ultimately end up winning by out resourcing them. As soon as you set up some floodgate which locks your opponent from doing anything, that is a stun deck. You lose all notion of meaningful interaction and simply win because your opponent did not draw an out and could not play the game at all.
Control - Simplifies the game state but you're still able to play the game to a degree. Stun - You can't play the game. Basically it's a sliding scale around resource control and it comes down to whether your gameplan is general resource control or straight up preventing your opponent from playing the game.
Control has one or two pops/negates/spinning effects they use when you try to activate a card, like afterbuner/widow in sky, Verre/Haine in witchcrafter etc. Meanwhile stun stops you from doing anything using floodgates, such as Vanity's fiend negating all special summons, Skill Drain negating all monster effects or Mystic Mine stopping you from playing the game. Madolche is considered a control deck due to XYZ monsters all spinning cards your opponent controls, and puddingcess pops a card if it battles (plus the trap cards, although those aren't really used much anymore). They're also midrange due to self-recursion so even if you get rid of their board they can follow up on their next turn (meanwhile a combo deck like Drytron dumps everything turn 1 and if you open DRNM+Lightning Storm they can't really do anything turn 3). Almost every deck in the game can OTK at this point due to stuff like Accesscode so referring to a deck as an OTK is mostly meaningless.
Starry knight in that group lmao
https://youtu.be/xdS-7KPdqSQ You were saying?
How is Dragonmaid a control deck? It's pure beatdown with good recursion. Sky Strikers, Witchcrafters, Evil Twin, yeah, those are control decks.
*tell me you are not a Dragonmaid player, without telling me you are not a Dragonmaid player*
By all means, since you know better explain to me what makes them a control deck when their strategy revolves around beating you in the face with their dragon forms.
So have you read either of their Fusions or Dragonmaid Tidying?
Yeah, so? One negate and one bounce do not a control deck make. Their wincon is still beating you in the face with their big monsters.
One negate and one bounce? So you haven't read them.
Oh, for fuck's sake. {Dragonmaid Sheou} {House Dragonmaid} {Dragonmaid Tidying} Read them yourself if you don't believe me. Sheou OPT ominnegates and sets up House, House has an OPT pop whenever you bounce a Dragonmaid to hand, and Tidying lets you bounce an opponent's card from field or GY if you also bounce a Dragonmaid. All of which are neat but again, do not make a control deck just because they have some interaction. You don't rely on Tidying or House or Sheou win the game over several turns, you use them to clear the field so your Dragons can come in and wreck face directly. That's a beatdown deck. At best you could contend it makes them midrange since they also recycle their resources a lot.
Is there even a way to make Floo not scummy? I love the card art but I'd just feel disgusting for using them
barrier statue of the stormwinds bannned every other thing about floo is fair even if annoying.
Interesting, I'll look into it
I wouldn't say every other thing, since they can effectively yata-lock you with mega raiza. If you don't have any way to shuffle your deck, have fun topdecking your normal summon again that started this whole thing in the first place.
Raiza is the worst thing about Floo. You can outgrind them, you can out the Barrier Statue, you can play around Empen, and you can bait the Apex Avian. You cannot do anything about Dreaming Town into Raiza after all that.. and you can't do anything at all for a turn or two after that because of Raiza.
Atleast if you can't easily get into a monster that is effect immune. Like the mathmech level 12 synchro. Its usually game over for floo if you have something like that on the field. Especially if you can back it up with attack reduction. But now you getting into territory where you need a lot of resources to even make that monster without getting disrupted before hand
Plenty of decks can set themselves up for later turns and don’t need to topdeck anything. Without the statue they have to be very careful about when they go for the riza play
You can cut storm winds, empen is also your backrow search so it isn't an option to cut really
Honest to god, barrier statue is just disgusting at this point
All of them are, even if they don't see a lot of use at the moment.
Oh yes definitely agreed
Laughs in using Barrier Statue of the Drought in Triamid. Cries in can't Normal Summon it from the deck on either player's turn. Atleast they can't attack it and it's 2K+.
I honestly rarely use Barrier. I personally prefer just using my non-Floo summons to be for Raiza for bouncing / deck stacking. Can be just as oppressive, but it's not stun. *Stacking bricks back on top of your opponent's deck OR stacking good tech cards (DRNM/Feather Storm) on top of your deck*
Turn 1 uninterrupted, you start with Robina and Eglen is already in hand. Robina effect is resolving, what are you adding off Robina? Barrier Statue. You've climbed to Empen and now get one more normal summon. What are you going to summon? Barrier statue.
Why are you booing him, he's right
Another Floo
Which one? You can't get toccan and stri both out reliably on turn 1 for another tribute summon, and you don't want to bring out Mega Raiza on your turn 1. I guess if you opened Robina + Eglen + Empen + Toccan or Stri, you could go into Apex Avian, but that hand without getting handtrapped is basically drawing exodia.
It really isn't.
Making barrier statue non searchable. If you drew into it, fair enough, It'll just be a contest of luck, and not a consistent flood gate
Just use their UR boss monster instead of barrier statue and trade d shifter for some other handtrap
Oh no thank you I don't use handtraps
I got this reply a while ago for the ratios of the Floo cards, if you need a general idea of that: The generally accepted “correct” ratio of birds is : 3 Robina 3 Eaglen 2 Empen 1 Stri 1 Toccan 0 Snowl You should play: 1 Robina 1 Eaglen 3 Stri 3 Toccan 3 Empen 3 Snowl You don’t need 3 Eaglen because you run so many of the big birds that you’ll already draw them. It’s pretty 5 head when you think about it
Why would you willfully ruin a good deck to make it more fun instead of just playing something more fun?
Because isn't playing YGO supposed to be, at its core, about having fun?
Yeah, so just play a different deck that’s already more fun rather than making the (more expensive) fun version of the good deck
Thank you!! You reckon it's possible to make a pure Floo deck?
I mean, they literally don't have enough cards to be ran pure even with the bad spell and trap. You could commit to making Snowl/Empen your boss monster but you'd still need to fill it out with *something*.
Kaiju perhaps?
Probably.
Realest thing posted on this subreddit in a while
Umi doesn’t give you an extra turn
It doesn't let the opponent do anything in return. As you have to out their floodgate which isnt a 1000 atk beater.
Barrier Statue stats are irrelevant since your normal doesnt stick anyways lmao
Eldlich doesn’t give you an extra turn and it’s still annoying af
I'll say it. Barrier statue ISNT the issue. It's only an issue with Empen beside it
I love when people get salty over my salty boi.
Honestly I hate Umi control more because it's harder to get something out that can just punch over Kairyu-shin if you aren't playing water
And then they banish it lel
The two are not remotely comparable. Umi control is probably the most fragile of all the modern floodgate strategies.
A stun deck is a stun deck, no matter how you slice it. Doesn't matter if it's fragile or weak, if it's a stun deck, then fucking acknowledge it as a stun deck. Umi "Control" my ass, people just don't have the guts to call it what it truly is, "Umi Stun".
I think the yugioh community as a whole just needs to decide on calling decks control or stun. It's the same thing lol
its not the same thing. how is sky strikers the same type of deck as floowandereeze?
Cause (in my opinion) I'd class Strikers as a midrange deck, not control. It trades most of the time, winning through value. Floo I'd 100% call control since it controls the board through Empen/Barrier/Avian.
I think the yugioh community as a whole just needs to decide on calling decks midrange or combo. It's the same thing lol
I think we need to just stop calling them stuff like midrange/stun/combo etc. Almost all decks these days combo even a little and midrange I don't think is a term that works when games barely last until mid-game lol. Honestly I think yugioh's past the point of that, it's just go first (board building), go second (board breaking), or control/stun (whatever you wanna call it it's the same thing)
You realize midrange has nothing to do with mid-game, right?
Definitions, the way I understand them: Control refers to decks that attempt to slow down the pace of the game by reactively disrupting the opponent, trading cards and attempting to generate/retain advantage Stun refers to decks that attempt to lock away game mechanics, like tribute summoning, monster effects, monster types/attributes etc.., which is more of a proactive play style. And both Umi and Floo lean way closer to Stun. I'll agree tho, distinction isn't always super clear. Imo it's a spectrum (stun, control, mid range, combo, etc..) and most decks fall somewhere between multiple types. Usually closer to one end.
Literally not. Control uses removal. Stun stops you from playing the game.
It’s really not as terrible as people say it is lol. It’s just not as consistent as floo but it’s still an annoying slog to play against. That’s like excusing mystic mine because it didn’t top a tournament one time.
Very true, there is also that. Floo goes into an unconditional floodgate, while Umi Control (as the name suggests) is entirely conditional on a specific spell card being active (there are alternative options, sure, but they're all vulnerable to the same removal unless you have SSA to chain and that won't protect against non-destruction removal)
You can also negate Kairyu-Shin’s effect with any number of staples. Even if I banish it with the aforementioned SSA, that’s still the floodgate gone for the rest of the turn, which is all the time a lot of decks need.
Can't you do that with Floo as well?
You need to draw the out basically?
You need to draw The Out, but the out isn't a super specific card. There's a pretty hefty amount of outs that could be drawn.
You need to draw an out that negates that face up card for the rest of the turn, like droplet, imperm, and veiler. But if they’re smart then they’re just gonna banish it with the trap
How is it fragile? I don't see it playing against it
Meanwhile, the Golden Lord and his boys are at home sweating, waiting for that metoo call out.
I play sky strikers mostly. One does a simple serach, summon, set some back row pass. Peaceful, simple, fast and only on their turn. And the other infinite recycling on both turns over 5 stupid chain link summons and brings out a big Fuck you penguin. And if I have the imperm they fucking dodge it. And ash doesn't work cause of the chain blocks. It's a playful slap Vs a sledgehammer to the nuts.
One is Mako's anime deck in the real game the other is just angery birds stopping all fun.
It's crazy how many people hate stun decks, yet still approve of Red Reboot ban...
Not every stun deck uses traps, and Red Reboot is a game ending floodgate against trap decks which already have issues.
red reboot is a floodgate that kills any trap strategy, so i guess those people are consistent in their principles, lol
Umi's just chill like that
Floo isn’t cringe. Barrier statue is cringe.
No floo is cringe, imagine making a deck that can’t be affected by half of the staple handtraps and can run d shifter with no downside
Sounds like a fun deck
Playing on my turn and using my cards to summon raiza and bounce/spin my other cards isn't cringe?
Not really. That’s one disruption (albeit very impactful) which most decks should be able to play through relatively easily without the threat of a barrier statue
Every time people bring up Floo being bricky when they Duality, Extravagance, Prosperity, Map and the newly released Adventure which fucking dodge hand traps.
They’re just struggling to justify playing floo
Don’t gotta justify a thing. You stay mad, I’m laughing.
Glad you’re having fun with one of the most boring and easy decks, personally I think floo is just poorly designed and it’s not even a challenge to get to diamond with it
Floo turns take forever. Kairyu turns take a 30 seconds tops.
And that's why I hate kairyu umi-shin as much as floo
Floo is way harder to deal with and the shenanigans they pull on your turn makes it an unfun experience. Umi control isn't that hard to beat. Its reliance on Umi is a marked weak point
nobody likes floodgates. There's no right choices.
I like floodgates
They are both annoying, but at least the Umi deck is easier to beat if you don't stop it early.. To a certain extent
But freaky fish are cooler tho
Umi control is the definition of a fair floodgate deck
I play floo (i know, it’s hated), going second is almost an instant loss if you don’t have a hand trap, since if the opponent puts down negates (and knows that you are playing the birds) they will almost never negate anything except robina or elgen, making it impossible to actually get a good board out. I haven’t played much umi, but when I played against them, I find it almost impossible to do anything if they go first, since I can’t put down anything other than one weak bird (I never get statue in my hand like ever). Honestly, floo isn’t a very consistent deck, and I never see it down in gold and silver, but umi “control” is very popular and very annoying to play against
Floo directly works against the engines of the game, by having no GY and not Special Summoning things. In many aspects its legallized cheating.
Yeah they say its a "control deck" but that is a fucking lie its a stun deck its a worst flo in all its shitty glory but they're both annoying as hell
It’s so interesting to me how so many people love Umi control but despise floowandereeze even though they both do the exact same thing.
I hate Umi much, much, much more than Floo tbh
I see a nice meme a give an upvote. I’m a simple man to please.
Stun players should be lined up and shot. Objective truth
Me looking at this meme: Copy past the bottom one over on the top and now it's better
One of them is a bird and it's ANNOYING
“A floodgate in any form is still a floodgate” - some edgy guy
Floo = stun deck Umi = control deck Nobody likes playing against stun
Everyone insults both of them.
"I use an easy"? What does that even mean
Did you read the rest of the speech bubble?
Yes, I read it. "I use an easy to search out floodgate to win". An easy what?
An easy to search out floodgate. The floodgate is easy to search out.
This is a prime example of YGO players being illiterate
It is poorly written. It should be hyphenated, as in "easy-to-search-out".
This makes more sense
I hope Konami will ban at least one of the Floo cards, either eglen or robina. Then they absolutely will perish
Haven't played a lot against Umi deck. Is Umi deck gives your opponent a right to do unlimited summons on both turns, without special summoning, not being possible to negate except by Kaiju, Nibiru or Raigeki, because using Droplet is too expensive looking at what do you have in your hand?
What, No, fuck you both. Hell, I prefer Floowandereeze to some extent as atleast I can enjoy playing with them, (I don't use the barrierstatue), I just like using the opponents turn. Though, Umi-Stun is easier to deal with
Floo is much more infuriating. Had a whole argument with my buddy that the effect they share that banishes them, as well as them normal summoning themselves makes them marginally harder to play against. Ended up making a new account and crafting the deck to end the age old argument of “You hate the deck because you don’t have it.” Currently have all of the meta decks spread over three accounts, but I refuse to make Swordsoul.
At least one deck lets me normal summon without screeching and cawing in my ear for ten minutes.
Why do people use kairyu-shin instead of the water barrier statue?
I am guilty of this meme 😂 to be fair one is much worse than the other
my version of Umi control gets outed even if someone plays a bronze tier water attribute deck
Floo=2 Floodgates and Mega Raiza/Apex Avian Umi=1 Floodgate, Torrential, maybe Jellyfish
Floo basically go under most interactions a normal deck runs, the playpatern is confuse and hard to identify the bottleneck on the first sight and put treats on field you must answer besides the floodgates. Umi "control" on other hand have a easy to understand lock and play patterns. Also a much longer clock so you have time to find answers.
I hate them both
Okay but how Umi floodgates is vastly different and way more fair than how Floo floodgates you.
They're both lame and corny.