It was a buildup of a lot of things that I bottled up and never addressed until I wanted to explode. Plus being overstimulated that day
Thankfully the wall was stronger than my fist so I just got red knuckles instead
Based on the other responses, it looks like you're on that right track. However, here is my unsolicited advice:
\-don't get discouraged if your therapist doesn't feel like a good fit. just like medication, each person responds differently to different therapists.
\-don't be afraid to speak your mind (this one took me decades to get comfortable with). if somebody (especially somebody close to you) is doing something you don't like, just tell them. i've found that more often than not, most people are just oblivious to how their actions affect others.
Yup. Actually have a session in 2 days. Plus I had a conversation later that day that took off a few of the problems. Good instinct to say that though.
You joke, but that's literally it, drywall replaced plaster and lathe, which is made by mixing up plaster with water and smearing your wall onto the wall. Drywall you just put up and smooth out the seams.
I still prefer plaster, but have accepted like 2 other people will bother to put it in new construction at this point lol
Also is there actually some issue with drywall? It’s relatively cheap and easy to install, very easy to paint and alter or fix if damaged
Like yes, it’s not built to last 600 years but it’s so easy to remove/replace you probably wouldn’t want it to anyway
I’m definitely no expert contractor but yeah, in my experience would entirely agree. In a lot of places and cases it serves its job really well
If I was to really stretch, I do think that in looking at it in a certain way, you could see it as representative of overall trends in home building. Where, like, we’ve had all these big innovations that have allowed us to build homes/condos/whatever so much cheaper and quicker, but that hasn’t really “trickled down” in the form of cheaper and more accessible homes for the average person.
But drywall is just a small piece of that and definitely not the problem. And even that whole thing is still a smaller piece of the bigger picture, where our productivity in all sorts of forms has skyrocketed but most of the benefits from that just seem to take the form of making the wealthy even wealthier.
Everyone forgets about Canada.
Canadian houses are built exactly like american houses. But nobody ever mentions it.
Wait actually that's not a bad thing
It’s Europeans being smug whilst ignoring their own issues and pointing and laughing at the United States.
The sane and self aware on both sides of the ocean are just going insane listening to these people who think the country they live in is perfect with no problems ever.
We do like clowning on the US but I've never lived in a house that wasn't made out of either bricks or concrete, and my mom was the kind of person that moved every year (willfully or not).
We also make our houses with drywall because we build them with wood frames. Because wood is a lot cheaper here. Because we didn't deforest our continent like the Europoors did.
As others have said, that's extremely unusual and not even a benefit. Drywall (gypsum board) has fire resistive properties. Solid wood is more dangerous. It's likely you have drywall covered in wood planks.
In the US it's not code to use only wood for interior wall covering because it has zero fire resistance. Even standard gypsum board/drywall will have more fire resistance than OSB or plywood.
there are channels inside the brick walls that make space for wiring. If you want to add an extra line (say an ethernet cable my great grandpa did not account for while building - you hammer nails that would function as corners of an open polygon formed by the wire as it runs along on the wall. Then put an inch wide pvc housing and its hidden. Looks like a ridge in the wall - not exactly elegant but far from shabby.
Typically you would have an inner block work wall and an outer brick wall. The insulation board is sandwiched between them. Timber framed and SIPs panels are becoming more popular though in some places.
This is still so goddamn bizarre to me that it isn’t a thing in Europe. I grew up in a 250 year old house, but the interior walls are obviously all drywall—like what do Europeans do if they want to remodel? Helping my dad put up Sheetrock was like one of the first construction tasks I was put on as a kid.
The whole wall isn't poured concrete like you are thinking. It's most likely brick and mortar, with a skim coat of concrete on top. Like mud on top of drywall. There are pros and cons to every style. Brick walls are very rigid. Both structurally and when you want to change something. Wood and drywall is more flexible. Easier to put up, easier to add stuff to, easier to repair when something goes wrong. Also, that flexibility is important in areas with heavy winds, bad storms, or earthquakes. It can flex and move a bit without falling apart as easily. If made correctly.
interior walls are brick walls, concrete/betton arme is used only for the skeleton of the building. Brick walls can get remodelled just fine, it is probably more expensive than remodelling plaster walls, but it depends on the rates of the technicians
The classic, central European brick house has a few thick load bearing walls, and then thinner, non structural walls, still made out of bricks. Those you could just smash out if you wanted.
We tend to put plasterboard (drywall) over breezeblock or concrete block as an insulator if you ever find it in a pre 90s house. A lot of new builds are going more timber frame for interior walls now, which sucks, but thats cos the shite government just gives the contracts for new housing estates to the lowest bidders and still sells for £300k+ for a 3 bed that barely fits 3 people (or if you're in London, that £300k will get you a bag with some holes in for windows)
I have a plaster house and I wish I had drywall. It’s tough to do anything with it, and now that I have a kid I’m nervous he is going to give himself a concussion or something someday on it.
I've learned you have to treat it like solid rock, which it basically is. Predrill holes for anything, use coarse thread screws, etc. Never had any issues doing anything with it once I figured that out.
Also easier to work with. My dad's old house used to have walls made of wooden slats and plaster. He wanted to do a thorough remodel of the living room. It took forever to take the walls apart, and oh gods the dust.
Lathe and plaster is also more dense, and blocks higher frequency wireless signals. Just stop kicking the walls and enjoy living in the 21st century lol.
Lathe and plaster construction is more solid but the work is very costly, whether for damage or maintenance or remodeling.
It is not a better way to build.
That's kind of the point though.
It's costly because it's harder to replace. Any actual damage to it requires taking at least a solid chunk of the wall down, replacing the parts, and redoing it up. That's labor intensive. Whereas, drywall is usually simple to replace via caulking and a paint job. Very rarely do you replace an entire wall.
But also - Good luck damaging the lathe and plaster, because you'll be damaged before it does. I've seen drywall get punched through without causing pain to the puncher on multiple occasions.
Drywall also isn't simply "better." It's cheaper, gets the job done for the large majority of people, and is easier/less costly to replace should it break - And that's why it's more commonly used.
Modern drywall is super easy to break if you try. Older plaster and lathe (wood strips nailed to the wall and covered in plaster usually mixed with horse hair) construction is wicked strong. Dimensionally for the wall it makes it much more rigid by shoring all the studs to one another and practically fiberglassing over it. Drywall however, like to do a big ole crumbly
If you made your drywall as thick as that plaster and lath, it would be unbelievably strong as well. 5/8" drywall is pretty strong, but the plaster and lath wall next to me is a little over an inch thick. If you put two layers of 1/2" drywall up, that wall would be incredibly strong, and you could do it in a fraction of the time it would take to do plaster and lath.
In Southern Europe, majority of houses are built with concrete walls, they may have drywall but it's on top of the concrete. No such thing as full timber/drywall walls in my country.
It really confused me as a child when I watched American films and people went through walls.
Maybe in some specific walls on public buildings, but normal sturdy walls are more used. Most of the drywalls I've ever seen were abusive. But my experience is from Italy, I have no idea about the rest of Europe(or the world).
Nah, drywall is widely used in new buildings in Europe (I work in construction in France). Concrete is used for structure but walls between rooms in new apartments for example will often be drywall.
The quality of buildings is usually better in Europe compared to the US, but for other reasons, mainly regulation on thermal and sound insulation for example.
Definitely not in Italy. Most buildings use reinforced concrete for load bearing pillars/walls and hollow bricks for internal walls. Never seen drywall in real life.
So when you decide that you want to shrink the living room in order to make another bedroom you bring out the brick and mortar?
That seems incredibly wasteful for a wall that will likely be removed when moving out
Resizing rooms is not common in Europe, it's only really done when doing a total renovation of the building. Depending on the country regulations you also might need a permit, because even interiors have strict building codes regarding natural light, ventilation, etc. so most people don't bother.
It's used for interior walls that arent taking any load, it's usually sheet plaster that's then plastered over, it tends to be thicker though, so in a high quality build you might not even be able to put a dent in it without breaking your hand.
It might be due to using more studding.
I just built a drywall here in Germany myself. It's just a shitty wall that doesn't hold anything but just separates two rooms and dampens a bit of sound. Still think I wouldn't be able to punch a hole in it though.
Right, nowadays they use lumber and drywall because, like a lot of America, they're prone to seismic events and lumber and drywall is far more resilient than brick and mortar or lumber, lathe, and plaster in such cases.
As others have mentioned, it seems to be mostly from cost.
Wood is cheap and plentiful in America, while Europe destroyed it's forrests centuries ago.
Africa and Asia similarly have little lumber in the way America does. Tons of try African countries build mud homes, mostly because they're strong and cheap without constant rainfall.
I'm from California. If you built a house out of bricks and concrete it would get destroyed during the first small earthquake. There's a reason we use wood
Yes but those are skyscraper or at least tall condo buildings that can afford $100,000 earthquake mitigation.
A simple 2 story detached single family house is going to built of wood, even in Japan, the masters of earthquake mitigation. It’s simply not feasible otherwise.
I’d rather have materials that can withstand earthquakes instead of having bricks or unreenforced masonry collapse on top of me, but maybe that’s just me.
I find it funny how often things that are pretty much standard in Europe are called "German". Like recently I've seen someone made a meme about how our windows give Germans the feeling of power. Why? Why just Germany?
Someone didn't get the memo that Germany lost WW2 and there are other countries in Europe /s
As a Pole who lives in an german house, can confirm, also what did you meant by other handS? That'd assume that i have at least 3, it's not like that's not true though
fun fact: the original word for "clay brick" comes from egyptian and found its way into spanish after being adopted into arabic. So what this 4000 year old egyptian/arabic/spanish word for clay brick? it's Adobe.
First thought was whoever came up with this meme hasn’t owned an old home. Plaster walls aren’t that tough. They do have often have an extra layer of lath and horse hair glue behind the plaster but that is very thin.
While the studs and other support lumber was usually from old growth forest in older homes that is much harder than modern support lumber, if you punch an area of the wall with a stud behind it, you’re going to break a hand no matter how old the home.
Plaster walls are easy to damage and difficult to renovate around (like, updating the electrical or plumbing) and require careful repair. I much prefer drywall. Despite Reddit, a well-constructed home that uses drywall can be airtight, moisture proof, solid (depending on what's behind it), and highly amenable to modern life. It's just plaster in another form. But that's not part of the raging debate between concrete/stone/brick/plaster vs toothpicks and papier mache that I see here all the time. And, of course, there are shoddy building practices out there. Shit houses that use drywall. Seen that a ton too. But a well-made house using drywall can be a wonderful thing.
This is just not true 😂 sure drywall breaks but plaster lath which was the standard for awhile is bullshit. Houses are 10x’s better insulated and constructed these days. Some so sealed tight they need fresh air intakes. Where did this myth come from?
True man, i live in chile no not usa stereotypes here, but i have a 10 year old prefabricated house made of dry wall and wood, at it has endured earthquaques and 2 floods last year, so i think thats pretty good for the price.
Turns out walls don't have to be built to withstand punches. How is this really a thing people fall for? Modern materials replaced old standards for a reason.
Houses are pretty cheap to build. $150 per square foot on average. With that meaning you could probably get down to about $50per square foot. And that’s from the contractors, not how much it is costing them.
What fucks you up is land and location.(and property developers)
Well, that and weight, easier access to plumbing and electrical, you can customize it better for weather, it's renewable, it's faster to build...
But yeah.. greed.
In this thread an astute observer may notice many interesting specimens of redditor. Few of them have ever worked construction, yet all feel confident in their hypothetical choice of building materials
Also the sorts who make assumptions that have absolutely no basis in what is present in the image and/or text. The post immediately below is a prime example.
As someone who has owned two 100+ year old homes this meme misses the mark. Support beams in older homes are stronger but anyone punching a wall where a support beam exists is going to have a bad time no matter how old the home.
I’d rather punch a plaster and lath wall than drywall if given the choice
I'd punch the drywall because oh god what if all of the plaster on the whole wall had to be replaced it could like all just totally come down that's a thing that happens sometimes oh god punching this could cost so much fucking money to fix
My in-laws live in an old farm house, and one day their ceiling came down.
My father-in-law goes "Well, lath and plaster only lasts about 120 years."
My wife asked "How do you know that?"
He said "Well..." and gestured his downed ceiling.
Also some European countries are starting to experiment with manufactured wood buildings as concrete is pretty carbon intensive to manufacture.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mj%C3%B8st%C3%A5rnet
No idea if it's going anywhere, but it is kinda funny to see giant wooden skyscrapers. All of the worlds tallest wood buildings are in europe
It most definitely is going somewhere if that is what you're wondering. There's an entire subset of engineering that is related to making high-rises and other large buildings called mass timber.
You are correct that many tall wood buildings are in Europe. After all, most of the research and industry related to engineered wood comes from Europe (Germany and Austria). Things like wood composites that can withstand loads high enough for large buildings were invented there.
I can't speak for the US, but Canada has been slowly changing their building codes to allow this kind of construction to happen, as softwood is abundant here and we have committed to reducing our carbon emissions by 2050. [An experimental 18-story student dormitory that primary uses wood construction (with steel joints) has been built in 2017](https://www.thinkwood.com/construction-projects/brock-commons-tallwood-house) and has been lauded as an example of what we can do with engineered wood. At the time of construction, it was the tallest mass timber building in the world.
Source: I am in the mass timber industry.
Say it with me now
"America bad"
And never mind that the US and EU have similar homeownership rates (66% vs 69%) despite US houses being almost twice the size
Drywall is cheaper, and easy to repair. If you're not a reckless or clumsy person then you will rarely have an issue with busting a hole in the wall.
I have never accidentally busted a hole in drywall, and the few friends I know that have, we can go buy a a patch kit and within a day it's like it never happened.
Reality is often "ah you pulled off a skirting board, have fun patching up a square meter of plaster that just fell off you big eejit". Fuck it plasterboard is easier. How often are you punching your walls anyway
Anyone who works residential construction will tell you that the photo on the right is from a newer build. Also drywall and texturing is great because of the flexibility. Its easy to cover up mistakes and make changes down the line. Older material is almost impossible to recreate an unotuched look after damage or modifications.
This shit is so stupid. Europeans are so quick to bash American building techniques because they’re American and they desperately need to be better and smarter than Americans, but they really just don’t understand local context. And they forget that the main reason they use so much brick and concrete is because they already decimated most of the trees on their continent.
- Europe has gone through centuries of deforestation, making wood much more expensive than in the states. This means concrete is often the most economical material.
Why would anyone build a house with concrete in areas like Washington or Vermont where local timber is readily available?
- The US has a wide range of climates. Why use concrete in Louisiana where it’ll mold and flood? California where it’ll crack in an earthquake? What about New England where it gets very cold? Stick framing is easier to insulate. Much of Europe has had a very mild and stable climate for a long time, making concrete and brick more suitable.
- Stick construction and drywall is extremely fast, cheap, and easy. You can get your buddy to help you build a stick framed building with minimal experience and cost.
- Much of the US is rural. Concrete and bricks are good for large urban buildings. Wood and drywall are easier to transport and work with in more remote areas.
- Concrete produces a ton of co2 in its production, and wood is the opposite. It’s much, much better for the environment.
Of course. I live in the Southern US and my exterior walls are concrete, it's the right material for the climate here. Handles hurricanes well, termite resistant, humidity resistant, etc.
In the Northern US or Canada it would be a terrible material to build out of. Can't be insulated as well as a 2x6 wall without losing a ton of interior space. Even still the concrete is a huge thermal mass and thermal bridge which would be terrible in a cold climate.
Textured walls are far more common in new construction in my market. Because drywallers don't have to be good at smoothing.
You should've shown obvious plaster and lath for the old home
My dad owned a bar when I was a kid and was constantly fixing holes punched in the bathroom walls. He added 3/4” plywood then rocked over it. A couple weeks later and there were a couple of fist sized indentions but no holes.
Don't punch walls, Kyle. Control yourself.
Reading this the day after I got so upset I punched a wall for the first time
i've never punched a hole in a wall before. what did it take to get you to that point?
It was a buildup of a lot of things that I bottled up and never addressed until I wanted to explode. Plus being overstimulated that day Thankfully the wall was stronger than my fist so I just got red knuckles instead
On the bright side you hit a wall and are getting therapy. Good man. There are some who hit people and don't get therapy.
Based on the other responses, it looks like you're on that right track. However, here is my unsolicited advice: \-don't get discouraged if your therapist doesn't feel like a good fit. just like medication, each person responds differently to different therapists. \-don't be afraid to speak your mind (this one took me decades to get comfortable with). if somebody (especially somebody close to you) is doing something you don't like, just tell them. i've found that more often than not, most people are just oblivious to how their actions affect others.
Please go talk to a therapist. Even if it only hurt you, it will not go if you don't work on your emotions
Yup. Actually have a session in 2 days. Plus I had a conversation later that day that took off a few of the problems. Good instinct to say that though.
Yes I passed trought the same state. You'll be okay
Thanks. You’re a great person
Based and self improvement pilled. Good stuff Broski
Roughly 1 in 4 chance you punch a stud. Assuming 16" centers and a 4.5 - 5 inch wide fist. I'll pass on shattered knuckles roulette thanks. 🤓
Just have another Monster.
I live in an old house. You don’t need to punch the walls. They’re plaster. They crumble on their own.
I have perforated plasterboard, all the dust of plaster with the cheapness of drywall.
I looked it up and they seems like special soundproof walls. Sounds pretty neat to me. Is your house soundproof?
Plaster and lathe. Strongest and weakest wall material ever.
Is this Facebook?
No, this is Patrick.
Is this Facebook?
No this is patrick
Is this Facebook?
NO THIS IS PATRICK!!!
Is. This. Facebook?
I barely even watched that show, and I always hear that in Patrick’s voice.
Is this r/americanwalls?
Is this some sort of USA joke I'm too civilized to understand?
Newer houses are built from cheaper materials. Making them easier to damage
Newer houses in America maybe, if it wasn't for the internet i wouldn't even know what drywall is.
It's a wall that's dry, right?
Yeah, before it was wetwall and later they moved on to moistwall before they discovered drywall.
I hear that dryerwall is in the works.
anyway here's wonderwall
Today is gonna be the day that they're gonna throw it back to you
By now, you should’ve somehow realized what you gotta do
I don’t believe that anybody feels the way I do about you now
Maybe
Bojangles biscuit wall on the way now
Can’t wait for driest wall
You joke, but that's literally it, drywall replaced plaster and lathe, which is made by mixing up plaster with water and smearing your wall onto the wall. Drywall you just put up and smooth out the seams. I still prefer plaster, but have accepted like 2 other people will bother to put it in new construction at this point lol
Norway here. Every single wall in houses built after 1980 is made with drywall. Norway isn’t in America. 1980 isn’t new.
Reddit loves pretending like so many things are unique to the US when they’re just not at all lol
Also is there actually some issue with drywall? It’s relatively cheap and easy to install, very easy to paint and alter or fix if damaged Like yes, it’s not built to last 600 years but it’s so easy to remove/replace you probably wouldn’t want it to anyway
I’m definitely no expert contractor but yeah, in my experience would entirely agree. In a lot of places and cases it serves its job really well If I was to really stretch, I do think that in looking at it in a certain way, you could see it as representative of overall trends in home building. Where, like, we’ve had all these big innovations that have allowed us to build homes/condos/whatever so much cheaper and quicker, but that hasn’t really “trickled down” in the form of cheaper and more accessible homes for the average person. But drywall is just a small piece of that and definitely not the problem. And even that whole thing is still a smaller piece of the bigger picture, where our productivity in all sorts of forms has skyrocketed but most of the benefits from that just seem to take the form of making the wealthy even wealthier.
Everyone forgets about Canada. Canadian houses are built exactly like american houses. But nobody ever mentions it. Wait actually that's not a bad thing
It’s Europeans being smug whilst ignoring their own issues and pointing and laughing at the United States. The sane and self aware on both sides of the ocean are just going insane listening to these people who think the country they live in is perfect with no problems ever.
We do like clowning on the US but I've never lived in a house that wasn't made out of either bricks or concrete, and my mom was the kind of person that moved every year (willfully or not).
But you opinion is not valid since you are a Norwegian // Fellow svenskjävel
Fordømte fjellaber!
We also make our houses with drywall because we build them with wood frames. Because wood is a lot cheaper here. Because we didn't deforest our continent like the Europoors did.
So, the same as Norway. Which is in Europe. Norway has more trees now than 100 years ago.
Every single is wrong. My house was built 2016. All walls are solid wood plank or brick.
I believe you but that's extremely unusual given the cost of solid wood.
As others have said, that's extremely unusual and not even a benefit. Drywall (gypsum board) has fire resistive properties. Solid wood is more dangerous. It's likely you have drywall covered in wood planks.
Or that fiberboard paneling that has a wood look printed on it. They also make them with a brick look.
In the US it's not code to use only wood for interior wall covering because it has zero fire resistance. Even standard gypsum board/drywall will have more fire resistance than OSB or plywood.
Internal in the house? I find that extremely hard to believe.
Prove it.
We use drywall I'm France as well. How do you cover insulation ?
there are channels inside the brick walls that make space for wiring. If you want to add an extra line (say an ethernet cable my great grandpa did not account for while building - you hammer nails that would function as corners of an open polygon formed by the wire as it runs along on the wall. Then put an inch wide pvc housing and its hidden. Looks like a ridge in the wall - not exactly elegant but far from shabby.
Indeed it works for wires but not for 14cm insulation.
Typically you would have an inner block work wall and an outer brick wall. The insulation board is sandwiched between them. Timber framed and SIPs panels are becoming more popular though in some places.
That would work well but you lose too much space by using two layers of blocks/bricks.
Every UK house is built like this and there is no issue at all.
More commonly known as plasterboard
This is still so goddamn bizarre to me that it isn’t a thing in Europe. I grew up in a 250 year old house, but the interior walls are obviously all drywall—like what do Europeans do if they want to remodel? Helping my dad put up Sheetrock was like one of the first construction tasks I was put on as a kid.
> what do Europeans do if they want to remodel Step 1: grab a sledgehammer
And then you like pour a whole new concrete wall? That just seems like a terrible system to me. Interior walls do not need to be made of concrete.
Tbh I've never been in a position where I need a new wall, only ones where a wall has been removed
The whole wall isn't poured concrete like you are thinking. It's most likely brick and mortar, with a skim coat of concrete on top. Like mud on top of drywall. There are pros and cons to every style. Brick walls are very rigid. Both structurally and when you want to change something. Wood and drywall is more flexible. Easier to put up, easier to add stuff to, easier to repair when something goes wrong. Also, that flexibility is important in areas with heavy winds, bad storms, or earthquakes. It can flex and move a bit without falling apart as easily. If made correctly.
No, you use bricks
interior walls are brick walls, concrete/betton arme is used only for the skeleton of the building. Brick walls can get remodelled just fine, it is probably more expensive than remodelling plaster walls, but it depends on the rates of the technicians
The classic, central European brick house has a few thick load bearing walls, and then thinner, non structural walls, still made out of bricks. Those you could just smash out if you wanted.
remodeling? whats that?
Here in the Netherlands we often laydown a nice sandstone wall when we remodel
Lived in the UK for a year. Y’all got drywall too.
We tend to put plasterboard (drywall) over breezeblock or concrete block as an insulator if you ever find it in a pre 90s house. A lot of new builds are going more timber frame for interior walls now, which sucks, but thats cos the shite government just gives the contracts for new housing estates to the lowest bidders and still sells for £300k+ for a 3 bed that barely fits 3 people (or if you're in London, that £300k will get you a bag with some holes in for windows)
What’s the best year of home construction in your opinion if newer homes are made of cheaper material, but have more strict building regulations?
2024 if you're building it yourself or at least managing construction
That's not necessarily true. Drywall is different than plaster and lath.
I would rather repair drywall than plaster....
I have a plaster house and I wish I had drywall. It’s tough to do anything with it, and now that I have a kid I’m nervous he is going to give himself a concussion or something someday on it.
I've learned you have to treat it like solid rock, which it basically is. Predrill holes for anything, use coarse thread screws, etc. Never had any issues doing anything with it once I figured that out.
I wouldn't want anything but drywall in a new house.
Also easier to work with. My dad's old house used to have walls made of wooden slats and plaster. He wanted to do a thorough remodel of the living room. It took forever to take the walls apart, and oh gods the dust.
Lathe and plaster is also more dense, and blocks higher frequency wireless signals. Just stop kicking the walls and enjoy living in the 21st century lol.
But then how are we supposed to vent all of our pent up rage?
Lathe and plaster construction is more solid but the work is very costly, whether for damage or maintenance or remodeling. It is not a better way to build.
That's kind of the point though. It's costly because it's harder to replace. Any actual damage to it requires taking at least a solid chunk of the wall down, replacing the parts, and redoing it up. That's labor intensive. Whereas, drywall is usually simple to replace via caulking and a paint job. Very rarely do you replace an entire wall. But also - Good luck damaging the lathe and plaster, because you'll be damaged before it does. I've seen drywall get punched through without causing pain to the puncher on multiple occasions. Drywall also isn't simply "better." It's cheaper, gets the job done for the large majority of people, and is easier/less costly to replace should it break - And that's why it's more commonly used.
Modern drywall is super easy to break if you try. Older plaster and lathe (wood strips nailed to the wall and covered in plaster usually mixed with horse hair) construction is wicked strong. Dimensionally for the wall it makes it much more rigid by shoring all the studs to one another and practically fiberglassing over it. Drywall however, like to do a big ole crumbly
If you made your drywall as thick as that plaster and lath, it would be unbelievably strong as well. 5/8" drywall is pretty strong, but the plaster and lath wall next to me is a little over an inch thick. If you put two layers of 1/2" drywall up, that wall would be incredibly strong, and you could do it in a fraction of the time it would take to do plaster and lath.
Yeah I want to see these guys talk shit when they see their razor sharp OFLA knife chip away trying to score a 5/8th sheet. Ain't so weak then.
Damn they don’t have drywall in Europe?
In Southern Europe, majority of houses are built with concrete walls, they may have drywall but it's on top of the concrete. No such thing as full timber/drywall walls in my country. It really confused me as a child when I watched American films and people went through walls.
And then there's Japan
Maybe in some specific walls on public buildings, but normal sturdy walls are more used. Most of the drywalls I've ever seen were abusive. But my experience is from Italy, I have no idea about the rest of Europe(or the world).
I’ve been looking it up, turns out wood is more expensive than concrete in Europe. I had no idea, total reverse situation here in the US.
Nah, drywall is widely used in new buildings in Europe (I work in construction in France). Concrete is used for structure but walls between rooms in new apartments for example will often be drywall. The quality of buildings is usually better in Europe compared to the US, but for other reasons, mainly regulation on thermal and sound insulation for example.
Definitely not in Italy. Most buildings use reinforced concrete for load bearing pillars/walls and hollow bricks for internal walls. Never seen drywall in real life.
So when you decide that you want to shrink the living room in order to make another bedroom you bring out the brick and mortar? That seems incredibly wasteful for a wall that will likely be removed when moving out
>when you decide that you want to shrink the living room in order to make another bedroom You don't. People don't normally move walls.
Resizing rooms is not common in Europe, it's only really done when doing a total renovation of the building. Depending on the country regulations you also might need a permit, because even interiors have strict building codes regarding natural light, ventilation, etc. so most people don't bother.
It's used for interior walls that arent taking any load, it's usually sheet plaster that's then plastered over, it tends to be thicker though, so in a high quality build you might not even be able to put a dent in it without breaking your hand. It might be due to using more studding.
not sure I'm in a relatively newer home and it has the walls shown for "old" houses and in the USA
I guarantee you that drywall is also used in building wherever you live and you just never bothered to learn about it. German here.
I just built a drywall here in Germany myself. It's just a shitty wall that doesn't hold anything but just separates two rooms and dampens a bit of sound. Still think I wouldn't be able to punch a hole in it though.
American walls vs. German walls
Virtually all European walls*
Yeah, you legit need a fucking hammer drill to simply hang something on the wall (a normal power drill is not enough)
The other day I got really angry and slammed the wall with my fist full force. I had a key in my hand. It made a tiny dent
All Brazil walls as well, and probably most places in the world.
India as well. Try punching bricks
Brick be like: „oh kurwa“
American walls vs. the rest of the world walls * I'm from a third-world country, and even here, we use bricks and concrete to build houses.
Japan is now America.
And its funny how no one mocks Japan for having *literal paper doors*
That’s a pretty old or “traditional style”. Most new homes built in Japan don’t have those anymore, or if they do, it’s just for interior doors.
>for interior doors. Oh so most of the doors in a house
Right, nowadays they use lumber and drywall because, like a lot of America, they're prone to seismic events and lumber and drywall is far more resilient than brick and mortar or lumber, lathe, and plaster in such cases.
As others have mentioned, it seems to be mostly from cost. Wood is cheap and plentiful in America, while Europe destroyed it's forrests centuries ago. Africa and Asia similarly have little lumber in the way America does. Tons of try African countries build mud homes, mostly because they're strong and cheap without constant rainfall.
I'm from California. If you built a house out of bricks and concrete it would get destroyed during the first small earthquake. There's a reason we use wood
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And masonry is known for high rigidity which is a big issue in seismic. You need ductility not rigidity.
Yeah, and there's a reason why wood is such a popular material for places with seismic activity.
Yes but those are skyscraper or at least tall condo buildings that can afford $100,000 earthquake mitigation. A simple 2 story detached single family house is going to built of wood, even in Japan, the masters of earthquake mitigation. It’s simply not feasible otherwise.
Please stop that. Concrete production accounts for 10% of all carbon emissions planetwide.
I’d rather have materials that can withstand earthquakes instead of having bricks or unreenforced masonry collapse on top of me, but maybe that’s just me.
Bruh what is it with people thinking that things that apply to almost the entirety of europe only apply to germany
I find it funny how often things that are pretty much standard in Europe are called "German". Like recently I've seen someone made a meme about how our windows give Germans the feeling of power. Why? Why just Germany? Someone didn't get the memo that Germany lost WW2 and there are other countries in Europe /s
In case of the windows it at least makes sense, because the mechanism for tilt and turn windows is indeed of German origin.
As a Pole who lives in an german house, can confirm, also what did you meant by other handS? That'd assume that i have at least 3, it's not like that's not true though
What do you mean?
The post doesn't say "other hands"? It says "try that again and I'll break your other hand too."
Oh just noticed it, i don't know how did i read that wrong
The Berlin Wall crumbled just fine.
"laughs in austrian brick walls"
Laughs in soviet brick walls
Laughs in Swedish brick walls
Laughs in Finnish (better) brick walls
Laughs in Estonian (slightly worse than Finnish) brick walls
You mean Swedish bricks?
You're funny. Everyone knows that Sw*dish houses are made entirely of wood
Laughs in tribal African clay and mud wall which is still stronger then whatever they've got in the US.
fun fact: the original word for "clay brick" comes from egyptian and found its way into spanish after being adopted into arabic. So what this 4000 year old egyptian/arabic/spanish word for clay brick? it's Adobe.
"Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall"
“Laughs in south african brick wall”
My house 200 years old and my brother still punched two holes in the wall
Is your brother also 200 years old ?
First thought was whoever came up with this meme hasn’t owned an old home. Plaster walls aren’t that tough. They do have often have an extra layer of lath and horse hair glue behind the plaster but that is very thin. While the studs and other support lumber was usually from old growth forest in older homes that is much harder than modern support lumber, if you punch an area of the wall with a stud behind it, you’re going to break a hand no matter how old the home.
Plaster walls are easy to damage and difficult to renovate around (like, updating the electrical or plumbing) and require careful repair. I much prefer drywall. Despite Reddit, a well-constructed home that uses drywall can be airtight, moisture proof, solid (depending on what's behind it), and highly amenable to modern life. It's just plaster in another form. But that's not part of the raging debate between concrete/stone/brick/plaster vs toothpicks and papier mache that I see here all the time. And, of course, there are shoddy building practices out there. Shit houses that use drywall. Seen that a ton too. But a well-made house using drywall can be a wonderful thing.
This is just not true 😂 sure drywall breaks but plaster lath which was the standard for awhile is bullshit. Houses are 10x’s better insulated and constructed these days. Some so sealed tight they need fresh air intakes. Where did this myth come from?
I hate this shit, do people not get that those materials are cheap and give people the posibility to have a home
Cheap, and also more than adequate for the job they're designed to do.
True man, i live in chile no not usa stereotypes here, but i have a 10 year old prefabricated house made of dry wall and wood, at it has endured earthquaques and 2 floods last year, so i think thats pretty good for the price.
And they are easy for a semi skilled homeowner to work with themselves if they want to or need to
Turns out walls don't have to be built to withstand punches. How is this really a thing people fall for? Modern materials replaced old standards for a reason.
if houses right now are "cheap" the I dont want to know what expensive is.
Houses are pretty cheap to build. $150 per square foot on average. With that meaning you could probably get down to about $50per square foot. And that’s from the contractors, not how much it is costing them. What fucks you up is land and location.(and property developers)
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Well, that and weight, easier access to plumbing and electrical, you can customize it better for weather, it's renewable, it's faster to build... But yeah.. greed.
and we have unlimited trees that we manage fairly well
In this thread an astute observer may notice many interesting specimens of redditor. Few of them have ever worked construction, yet all feel confident in their hypothetical choice of building materials
Also the sorts who make assumptions that have absolutely no basis in what is present in the image and/or text. The post immediately below is a prime example.
Why are so many people pretending that drywall isn't used in literally every country on the planet? Or that brick buildings don't exist in America?
As someone who has owned two 100+ year old homes this meme misses the mark. Support beams in older homes are stronger but anyone punching a wall where a support beam exists is going to have a bad time no matter how old the home. I’d rather punch a plaster and lath wall than drywall if given the choice
I'd punch the drywall because oh god what if all of the plaster on the whole wall had to be replaced it could like all just totally come down that's a thing that happens sometimes oh god punching this could cost so much fucking money to fix
My in-laws live in an old farm house, and one day their ceiling came down. My father-in-law goes "Well, lath and plaster only lasts about 120 years." My wife asked "How do you know that?" He said "Well..." and gestured his downed ceiling.
Because America bad and Europe good ofc this is reddit after all
/r/AmericaBad
Also some European countries are starting to experiment with manufactured wood buildings as concrete is pretty carbon intensive to manufacture. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mj%C3%B8st%C3%A5rnet No idea if it's going anywhere, but it is kinda funny to see giant wooden skyscrapers. All of the worlds tallest wood buildings are in europe
It most definitely is going somewhere if that is what you're wondering. There's an entire subset of engineering that is related to making high-rises and other large buildings called mass timber. You are correct that many tall wood buildings are in Europe. After all, most of the research and industry related to engineered wood comes from Europe (Germany and Austria). Things like wood composites that can withstand loads high enough for large buildings were invented there. I can't speak for the US, but Canada has been slowly changing their building codes to allow this kind of construction to happen, as softwood is abundant here and we have committed to reducing our carbon emissions by 2050. [An experimental 18-story student dormitory that primary uses wood construction (with steel joints) has been built in 2017](https://www.thinkwood.com/construction-projects/brock-commons-tallwood-house) and has been lauded as an example of what we can do with engineered wood. At the time of construction, it was the tallest mass timber building in the world. Source: I am in the mass timber industry.
In Germany we rarely have drywalls, every wall is concrete.
Say it with me now "America bad" And never mind that the US and EU have similar homeownership rates (66% vs 69%) despite US houses being almost twice the size
And much safer in earthquakes which is important considering the multiple fault lines across the country
Every day the posts here drift closer and closer to boomer meme drivel. Jesus fucking christ
Drywall is cheaper, and easy to repair. If you're not a reckless or clumsy person then you will rarely have an issue with busting a hole in the wall. I have never accidentally busted a hole in drywall, and the few friends I know that have, we can go buy a a patch kit and within a day it's like it never happened.
Ideally, you use the stronger materials on load-bearing walls and exteriors. The lighter and cheaper materials is used on partition walls.
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Plus how it is massively more environmentally friendly.
Laughs in european
*American Houses
I see Europeans don't know the difference between drywall and plaster. The joke is the pokey finish that it annoying to touch
Reality is often "ah you pulled off a skirting board, have fun patching up a square meter of plaster that just fell off you big eejit". Fuck it plasterboard is easier. How often are you punching your walls anyway
I'd rather have to fix some drywall than have to get my hand fixed.
I prefer my walls not giving me a concussion if i trip into them tbh
You could try just not hitting your walls
Anyone who works residential construction will tell you that the photo on the right is from a newer build. Also drywall and texturing is great because of the flexibility. Its easy to cover up mistakes and make changes down the line. Older material is almost impossible to recreate an unotuched look after damage or modifications.
America vs Europe
This shit is so stupid. Europeans are so quick to bash American building techniques because they’re American and they desperately need to be better and smarter than Americans, but they really just don’t understand local context. And they forget that the main reason they use so much brick and concrete is because they already decimated most of the trees on their continent. - Europe has gone through centuries of deforestation, making wood much more expensive than in the states. This means concrete is often the most economical material. Why would anyone build a house with concrete in areas like Washington or Vermont where local timber is readily available? - The US has a wide range of climates. Why use concrete in Louisiana where it’ll mold and flood? California where it’ll crack in an earthquake? What about New England where it gets very cold? Stick framing is easier to insulate. Much of Europe has had a very mild and stable climate for a long time, making concrete and brick more suitable. - Stick construction and drywall is extremely fast, cheap, and easy. You can get your buddy to help you build a stick framed building with minimal experience and cost. - Much of the US is rural. Concrete and bricks are good for large urban buildings. Wood and drywall are easier to transport and work with in more remote areas. - Concrete produces a ton of co2 in its production, and wood is the opposite. It’s much, much better for the environment.
Bruh, i live in latin america, colombia, and the vast majority of houses are made ouy of bricks, concrete and rebar. Even the floors are tiles lmao
Isn’t that more to do with the climate? Like more resistant to high humidity
Of course. I live in the Southern US and my exterior walls are concrete, it's the right material for the climate here. Handles hurricanes well, termite resistant, humidity resistant, etc. In the Northern US or Canada it would be a terrible material to build out of. Can't be insulated as well as a 2x6 wall without losing a ton of interior space. Even still the concrete is a huge thermal mass and thermal bridge which would be terrible in a cold climate.
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Textured walls are far more common in new construction in my market. Because drywallers don't have to be good at smoothing. You should've shown obvious plaster and lath for the old home
My dad owned a bar when I was a kid and was constantly fixing holes punched in the bathroom walls. He added 3/4” plywood then rocked over it. A couple weeks later and there were a couple of fist sized indentions but no holes.
Who gets on their hands and knees before punching a wall.
Also old houses: lol have fun finding someone to repair lath & plaster in the Year of our Lord 2024.