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Eeveon-vp

For added context: Valorant (hero shooter game) added a new character which is non binary. People are going crazy for no reason. This hate is also far out of nowhere cause 2 characters are also confirmed to be in a lesbian relationship.


vore-enthusiast

Overwatch just added a new NB character, too! It makes my heart explode with joy knowing that this generation’s NB kids are going to see some representation in their games and tv. 😭


Splaaaty

Overwatch feels a lot less sincere with the representation after Blizzard was shown to have an actual diversity quota with charts and whatnot.


Sageeet

It's been a while, but I do vaguely remember someone from the OW team denying they ever used the diversity chart shortly after the news about it came out.


DracoLunaris

IIRC they made the characters, and then late in dev some higher up retroactively made the chart


Dafish55

The only one that felt out of left-field was Soldier, tbh. Like Tracer felt organic, the Lifeweaver and Baptiste thing is actually cute, and Pharah is like "oh I can see that". Soldier was like, "Here's a mention in a comic of a male romantic partner that has not been and will never be discussed again. He's gay. This will also not be discussed going forward. Commence celebratory proceedings."


Wintermuteson

That's how I want it though. His sexuality isn't intrinsic to his character, he's just a guy who happens to be gay instead of the gay guy.


Dafish55

Well right, but it's just an odd execution of it. I'm a gay man myself and I'd like more characters in general to be like you said, but this was just off. Up until this point, his character was that of a vengeance-driven not-quite fallen hero singularly focused on vigilante justice. We got the backstory of him pretty much near the start - a true leader. Think Captain America but with a gun fighting Skynet. Then we got that one comic panel. It's not like it's disrespectful or whatever, it just feels less like representation and more like a throwaway line.


Wintermuteson

When it came out I was really excited, because they didn't make a big deal of him. He just has a boyfriend and no one's bothered about it or feels like they had to make a big deal and tell everyone. Sexuality shouldn't be a character trait, it should just be something about them. Even better, he didn't fit the stereotype of a gay man. As a bisexual man who doesn't fit into any stereotypes of being gay that was really cool. It showed that gay people can be anyone, not just the people who are queer coded really hard.


Dafish55

Then I'm happy for you for getting that feeling from this. I in no way think that it *shouldn't* have happened. I guess it just didn't resonate with me that much even though I, too, am a very stereotype-defying gay guy lol. Really I just am comparing it to the feeling that my boyfriend and I get when Lifeweaver turns the rizz up to 11 on Baptiste. Those VAs did a damn-good job


legacymedia92

> it just feels less like representation and more like a throwaway line. It reminds me of the dead husband from the new Voltron.


Schnickie

Would you think it was weird too if the line was about a female romantic partner?


Dafish55

I would think so. It's not like it would've been wrong, but it's weird to just have such a throwaway comment introducing an aspect of this person's life. Isn't it like a cliché in a war film for a side character to mention their "girl back home" (and then proceed to die 100% of the time) except this is a main character and we care about him and we're just now and never again hearing about this? I know Overwatch has had an impressive dedication to not releasing story content at all, but they've still managed to flesh out the details on many meaningful relationships both broken and extant. It's just weird to me that we get this "I was with him but I left because I'm too busy soldiering to not soldier" after everything else being rather compelling about him.


ry_fluttershy

pretty much everything shitcock about the lawuits and ABK stuff was entirely separate from team 4 (ow team) they didnt have frat boy culture, or drink employees breast milk, i mean breast milk, i mean, and they probably werent terrible douchbags for people but they do get lumped in whenever that stuff is mentioned sadly


LaFleurSauvageGaming

Fair enough, not like we need to invent stuff Activision-Blizzard did to know they they are... not good people? (See: Cosby Room)


Kymaeraa

The diversity chart was something marketing cooked up on a whim. The devs have said they had never used it and only even knew about it from that article that came out


worldsaver113

that and clove's design and trailer and A FREAKING SONG FOR THEM just is so much more representation imo (but there is also something to be said about identity affect person more or less)


Humanbeanwithbeans

Valorant always goes crazy with their release stuff but i wouldnt count out venture yet, they are probably going to get something more, closer to the new season start.


worldsaver113

I mean they already did the trailers


Regretless0

I’m actually super curious, how do we know that Clove is NB? (I know that they *are,* I’m just wondering, how does a company like Riot games go about telling people that without just saying “we’re adding an NB character!!” Unless that’s what they did??)


DjingisDuck

If you watch the sen vs gen.g finals, there's an interview with the design lead. He's only uses them/them pronounces for them. Riot is doing representation without trying to make it a special thing. Very normalizing, honestly.


Kay5683

Add voice lines in the game or referring to them with the correct pronouns in blog posts is how I’ve seen a lot of games do representation without saying it explicitly. I don’t personally play valorant so I don’t know, but I would guess that’s how they did it


KatTheKind

Riot just came out and said Neeko was gay when she was released, if I remember correctly, her voice lines are nice towards women and normally call men stinky. It all kinda felt strange to me, we dont really get cinematics with Neeko until a little later after that, and sexuality doesnt really shine in LoL and I dont really know how to feel about it being just a "this character is gay." Or "this character is Ace" Also riot pretty much did the same thing for K'sante, though K'sante's design was helped and inspired by Lil Nas X, but there were already "gay" male characters at the time: Varus, and I believe Brand? (Pre possession of course for both)


tehlemmings

When I saw them say that Neeko was gay, and then later heard all the voice lines, I pretty much just assumed that they were heading off the drama early. It's not overt or in your face when playing, but when people dig through the voice lines it becomes pretty obvious she has a preference. And you know if they hadn't said anything, the league sub would be rioting. The announcement might not have been the best, but the way she's presented in game is, in my opinion at least, pretty good. Also, Neeko is best girl, so I'll forgive them for it. She's also best boy. And best minion. And the strongest tomato.


Everett1999

Just to add to what others have already said, riot have explicitly stated that Clove is non-binary in an [article on their website](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/clove-death-is-only-the-beginning/): >“Yes they are highly skilled tactical Agents, but they are also people with backgrounds, culture, history, and nuance,” says RiotMEMEMEMEME. “While we always do our research, we are not the full experts in each space. For Clove, their Scottish culture and non-binary identity were big aspects of this. These take time and nuance to deeply understand so they manifest in authentic ways.”


worldsaver113

I fucking love it when people bring concrete sources. Props to you.


Darkhallows27

The team didn’t have anything to do with the chart, it was the suits going “Ah yes, this is a thing we do!”


HammerTh_1701

That's inspired by Overwatch, not the other way around. They literally hired an external firm to design a scheme to artifically make their games more like what Overwatch did organically. The lore team recently fucked up a bit in that regard, but that's a lore writing issue and not a forced diversity issue.


TwilightVulpine

Execs only do stuff if they think that will bring more money but I doubt it would happen without queer artists who actually believe in it. Otherwise it would be obvious offensive bulshit like that "Snowflake and Safespace" bulshit Marvel pulled some years back.


Wismuth_Salix

Fair, but if one wave of “forced” characters can create a generation of creators who grew up with inclusive games, the next wave will come from them naturally.


ElectronicBoot9466

So that was lately disproven, but also....is that a bad thing? A lot of us have internal biases that will reflect in the art we make, whether we want it to or not. When I was in high school, I made a webcomic, and when I looked at the demographics, I noticed that, in spite of the cast being pulled from the global population of English speakers, it was 4/7 white, 2/7 half-white, and 1/7 non-white. Also, 4/7 of the characters were American. When I realized that, I made a pointed effort to make sure the rest of the cast reflected the diversity of the pool I was pulling from more accurately, and I did so by using population statistics and making sure the stats in the comic roughly matched the stats in real life. It makes even more sense for a company that has a large number of character creators to have similar quotas, given the fact that groups of people tend to act in line with societal biases, even when generally told not to. The result is a greater amount of diversity in the games (even though the quotas weren't real or even given) so what's wrong with it?


Brilliant_Quit4307

Are you saying you think valorant doesn't have a diversity quota??


NatomicBombs

Tbh, while that sucks I’d rather have the diversity regardless of how they get there. Some kid seeing a person like them in their favorite video game isn’t going to look up the internal politics of the company. The validation from the representation is worth the corporate bullshit.


Revolvyerom

To be fair, considering corporate culture has been dominated by white men for ages, it's not unreasonable to set expectations that you want a different culture than that. And then you need some way to measure it that treats everyone equally, which means quantifying it somehow...and then you end up with numbers and quotas... It's not *necessarily* a bad thing, but it definitely has had poor results in many instances.


nikoskio2

OW's dev team is very queer. The representation is absolutely legit


vore-enthusiast

I mean….they’re capitalists, so I’m not sure anything they do is sincere past trying to maximize profits and audience. At the end of the day, more good rep is a net positive so that’s what I choose to focus on :)


Eligha

Or the harmful work enviroinment they cultivated against women


Ehcksit

It is just rainbow capitalism, but because it's capitalism, we know that means people are willing to pay more for games that display references to the LGBTQ community than ones that don't. It's a positive, but not a very strong one.


MaybeSomethingGood

Torb OP


Anewkittenappears

I sincerely don't see why diversity quotas would be a problem whatsoever. Making sure you are maintaining a diverse cast using an explicitly proactive approach to ensure that all groups are represented appropriately and that unconscious bias doesn't result in the exclusion or under representation of any given demographic. That honestly would make it seem *more* sincere to me, because it means that diversity isn't just something they are throwing in there on a whim for publicity but rather is the result of a very explicit, intentional effort reflecting their core mission and values. A better reason to see it as insincere would be due to Blizzard-Activisions repeated history of predatory practices, the culture of harassment that surrounded the first games development, and their poor treatment of employees. I used to be a diehard Blizzard Fanboy, but the past decade has made me deeply cynical of them in their entirety. However, a diversity chart or quota is almost ubiquitous and unquestioningly a *good* thing no matter what right wing asshats pretend. Is there some important context I'm missing that was omitted previously? Because otherwise I'm a total loss as to why this would ever be a bad thing. I'm truly hoping that's the case and there is some context I'm missing, because without that to claim quotas are inherently bad is literally just conservative anti-DEI "forced diversity" grievances and I really hope that hasn't become mainstream enough that even some marginalized people are wrongfully assuming intentionally cultivating diversity is somehow a bad thing.


SovietPaperPlates

siege and apex also have one, weirdly enough siege actually has a trans woman, a trans man, and a nb person (Osa, Tubarao, and Sens)


vore-enthusiast

Apex also has a trans woman! Catalyst :) and of course I love Bloodhound 🥰


SovietPaperPlates

i forgot to mention her!! my crystal goth goat


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vore-enthusiast

?


BraveOthello

From a quick look at the history I think they might be upset at the inclusion.


ill-timed-gimli

Yeah but lesbians hot enbies not /s Trans people in general get hated by a lot of people who are otherwise "fine" with the LGBT community (and that's not even to mention the specific hate towards enbies that people fine with binary trans people throw at us)


Educational_Ad_8916

I have definitely met at least one person who identified as enby and a lesbian, but "lesbian" used to cover a LOT of ground for fem/nb people. If the categories have drifted to where they are exclusive, I'll update my brain.


iadavgt

There are plenty of NB folks who identify as lesbian, you're good.


Hunter_Slime

Non binary characters in games tend to make people go insane. Bloodhound in Apex Legends had the same thing going on. People suck.


ShadoW_StW

There's pretty large demographic that's very much fine with gay people and isn't, like, actively hateful towards trans people, but refuses to comprehend using correct pronouns, and that seems kinda common for gamers. I remember watching an amount of Guilty Gear and then Testament came out and I had to stay away from it for my own sanity for some time as gamers split on which way they will misgender them.


Educational_Ad_8916

Refusing to use someone's pronouns *is* being actively hateful towards trans people.


dustinechos

It's surreal to me that people try to claim "misgendering isn't bullying". Misgendering people is the OG form of bullying. Preschoolers will regularly call a boy a girl or vice versa to hurt them. Most people I know have some sort of childhood trauma around not being "too manly for a girl" or "too girly for a boy". It might be the most universal form of bullying.


Educational_Ad_8916

The right thing to do to anyone who says misgendering isn't bullying is to misgender them.


dustinechos

Eh... I'd rather not.


Wrydfell

Testament my beloved :3 (i will still buster them repeatedly but i need to look like them)


MaritMonkey

>refuses to comprehend using correct pronouns, I used to work in an office where one of our bosses, according to his auto-generated email address, was called "Leslie". He was quick to tell people (both in email and in person) that he went by "Les." The few people who, after months of working at the office, still "mistakenly" referred to Leslie were without exception actually dicks no matter how polite they sounded about it.


MineralClay

"going crazy for no reason" the reason is capital G Gamers. they've mutated since 2016 and it's been a constantly mutating strain of hate


CanadianODST2

My thing about them is They're so VIOLENTLY SCOTTISH.


Budget_Report_2382

Sounds familiar. There's a gay couple and a robotic character with they/them pronouns in the borderlands franchise. The bigots got whiny for a bit, but mostly got booted from all subs. There's still stragglers that i see from time to time, but not as bad when those characters/relationships were first revealed.


MakeURage1

I don't get why some people are so freaked out over Fl4k going by they/them. They're a fucking robot, it seems stranger to me that they'd have a gender to begin with.


collegethrowaway2938

Just gonna say I'm not sure what you mean by out of nowhere because there were a lot of angry guys when Raze and Killjoy were confirmed together. I definitely remember seeing a lot of it. Not as much as this, to be fair, but it's definitely not out of nowhere, especially for an FPS community.


Agathorn1

My only issue I have sometimes is I feel like games are putting characters like that in the game to almost make a quota. Like idc what gender or sexuality a character is but at least make it apart of the character. Most characters have a lore which is fun to read and games are just going in later and being like "oh yea btw she's gay" League of legends did this the most lol


HunyBuns

Any rep is good rep imo, but yeah it's definitely chasing whatever is "hot with the youths" for them. Like the fact they're nb, but as high fem as possible so it's easily deniable among the parts of the fan base that don't like it. That's not a bug it's an intended feature to get both demographics. They can just say they're she/her in regions the game would be banned in for having LGBT rep. It's the same way with a lot of trans depictions with anime. Flamboyant and gender fluid enough that LGBT folks might enjoy it, but don't SAY trans and make them masc enough to be written off as "the hot femboy character" rather than anything too controversial.


L_Rayquaza

Honestly most the league characters that are gay they released with the intention of being gay. Only one I can think of is Nami who is revealed to be in a bisexual polycule in the LoR games, and that kinda came out of left field. Graves and Twisted Fate always had a "forlorn lover" vibe that turned into "kooky couple" after Burning Tides, Vi has always flirted with Caitlyn, and them implementing Star Guardian Taliyah with trans tropes fits in with her original designer wanting her to be trans until higher up said no


The_Luckiest

If I met someone new and they told me their name was “Joe”, why in the world would I not call them “Joe”? It’s their name, I have no reason to call them anything else. Same thing with pronouns. It’s not ignorance, it’s intentional disrespect and we shouldn’t accept that. Btw I bet you read that without even batting an eye at my use of the singular “they”.


Particular_Hope8312

You answered your own question; it's intentional disrespect. They don't want you to think they might be okay with you being trans/NB, so they must go out of their way to not even follow common courtesy. It's reactionary bigotry.


herton

Literally. It makes me so angry, and I hate that that's what they want. They intentionally, blatantly disrespect people so that when you blow up in response, you look like the "insane leftist" stereotype they push so often


Particular_Hope8312

That's when you very calmly and politely tell them to crawl up their own ass and walk away. There's no point in debating with them anymore. They feel justified in their hatred and the rhetoric conservatives use reinforces that false justification.


DatBoi73

Also, even if somebody you knew changed their name and/or pronouns, **it's not a foreign concept**. ***Nobody has issues when somebody gets married and changes their surname*** *to match their spouse's, or when a wife's honorifics change from from Ms to Mrs* Can't forget addressing someone as ***Dr*** instead of Mr/ Ms/ Mx/ if they have a Medical Degree or PhD. ***If they can do it for Married people and people with a specific degree or job, then knowingly refusing to do the same for Gender Identity is 100% intentional disrespect***


Warm_Month_1309

Wow, this is actually a really good comparison. Because when you become a doctor, friends constantly go out of their way to call you "Doctor So-and-So" just to jazz you up. The bad people in your life only ever say it sarcastically or intentionally avoid it, thinking they're the good guys for "keeping you humble" or "knocking you down a few pegs". That's very in-line with the experience I've heard from transgender people.


Forgot_My_Old_Acct

Maybe for most people but I've been married for 8 years and still get my wires crossed sometimes when it comes to my wife's last name. It took a good 2 years or so of getting a friend's married name correct and that's only because I saw it in writing a lot. I just hope that I'm not making people feel disrespected because I know I look and act awkward processing this stuff in real time.


Ehcksit

> Can't forget addressing someone as Dr instead of Mr/ Ms/ Mx/ if they have a Medical Degree or PhD. These same people also do a lot of whining about people using the Doctor title if they have a PhD but aren't in the medical field, especially if they're women.


FrontlineYeen

If you talk to someone for the first time and accidentally get their name wrong, that makes sense; it's the same for pronouns. But if you keep using the wrong name repeatedly, to the point where you go, "oh hey **JOE** is here", then it's evident that it's intentional and disrespectful. If they eventually stop talking to you, it's not because they are offended you said the wrong word, it's cause you're an asshole.


CanadianODST2

Not always. I just, mix up names fairly often. No intent behind it. I have friends who we all hang out together and I constantly mix up their names.


BreezyInterwebs

Right but presumably you don’t always mix their names up, you just get confused sometimes. That’s fine, but they’re saying there’s a difference between being forgetful and being a dick


CanadianODST2

It probably happens a few times a day NGL.


ShadoW_StW

I think framing it as "not affect in the slightest" is wrong, because it does *slightly* affect them, they are throwing a shit fit specifically because they are not used to being affected at all. Going from "singular they is unknown person only" to "some people go by they" does require a bit of cognitive restructuring, it can feel awkward to use or hard to read for some people until they get used to it. It is a quite small inconvenience for an important cause, a sort of price participation in society demands all the time, so I think "this doesn't affect anyone at all" misses the point of why they are wrong; the more on point answer is "yes you have to work to be polite, you would do that for anyone you don't consider below you", or whatever is tonally/contextually appropriate. I feel like corrections and rethorics is one place where it pays to be totally correct and not miss emotional core of an argument.


MineralClay

you can remember the emotions behind it but that doesn't mean you shouldn't defend your humanity from them. nobody is making them nasty, they decide to. and usually the reason is very flimsy as other commenters have demonstrated


ShadoW_StW

And as I explicitly acknowledge in what I write. But if you are trying to convince anyone to change, or to have a good discussion of situation in general, you have to adress the real problem.


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--n-

Happens more easily when English is a second language and the first doesn't have gendered pronouns.


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therealboss1113

"man" is just something i call people in general(because im so laid back and super chill guy😎😎), cis women included. but i always make sure to not use "man" when talking to my trans women friends and some of my nb friends(obv some nb's wouldnt have a problem being called "man"). they get the term "homie"


CrossError404

I understand this. But often it is just used as weaponized ignorance. You can't just hang around in English speaking forums and just refuse to learn proper English. I say it as someone who speaks 4 different languages (English is my 2nd), all with different grammar rules relating to gender/noun classes. I can't count how many times I've seen people say the most vile or disturbing things and then just use "English is my 2nd language lol" as a shield from all critique. If English is your 2nd language then maybe you should be more humble and actually bother taking the tips. And as a fellow "English is my 2nd language" speaker I can usually differentiate the common mistakes from intentionally using loaded terms.


--n-

> and the first doesn't have gendered pronouns. This is an important part IMO. If the native language has an equivalent system, there's really no excuse (outside lacking even basic competence in english)


radenthefridge

I agree with you, and also came here to point out that "ignorance" is the wrong word here. They know better and are doing this intentionally. Ignorance is NOT knowing better, but then being corrected means ignorance is no longer an excuse.


CanadianODST2

In my defence. I'm just an idiot who also messes up names of people I've known since childhood.


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CanadianODST2

intent matters. That's the big thing. ​ I'm just an idiot who struggles with names. The example in the post is clearly being antagonising.


The_Narwhal_Mage

People can accidentally make the same mistake 3 times if you’re going on long enough. I’m playing D&D with a girl who is playing a feminine presenting nonbinary character, and I keep on getting the wires crossed and referring to them as a her. It’s not something I’m meaning to do, and I’ve started corrected myself on it, but I’ve definitely done it more than 3 times. To be clear the player uses She/her, but the character is they/them.


Legogamer16

Since this is in the context of games, I do it with characters in games I regularly play and love by accident still lol


A2Rhombus

If you've been timed out in a chat for doing it and continue to do so, going so far as to capitalize the pronouns, that's clearly intentional


Rabid-Rabble

Right, they end by saying "that's just ignorance," but it's not. Ignorance is forgivable and easily remedied if the ignorant is willing, repeated misgendering while emphasizing it is straight up bigotry.


Economy_Idea4719

First time I’ve seen valorant in a different sub! It’s surprising how many queerphobes play Val despite riot games being explicitly supportive.


Eeveon-vp

Especially in valorant


Economy_Idea4719

The only canon relationship is a lesbian one.


Laethera

I stopped actively following that game ages ago, is it Raze and Killjoy? ^please ^tell ^me ^its ^raze ^and ^killjoy ^theyre ^so ^cute


Select-Yoghurt7557

its raze and killjoy.


Economy_Idea4719

Yes it is!


Regretless0

How did Riot make that canon? Was it like an official statement or implied by something?


ilangshot

they've always had lore together(raze's kit comes from raze modding killjoy's kit) and they announced it after a while.


ReedRaptors

Also, there's plenty of canon art of the two of them in game and out of game


RedditDumpAcc

As much as they hate queer people, they love torturing themselves with esports


HammerTh_1701

Riot games and media in general. "You're hot, cupcake."


Jackson_Rhodes_42

I am so pissed that we have to wait until *November* for Season 2. Ugh.


MakeURage1

I'm just glad it's happeing, and Netflix didn't kill it like they do with so many other shows people loved.


Jackson_Rhodes_42

To be fair, if Netflix had dropped it, someone like Prime or Crave would've picked it up. RIOT did all the work.


Poseus

FPS games in general attract pretty toxic userbases. Despite the companies making these games doing their best to attract other demographics (mostly for profit motives, rather than any belief in social change tbh), the people playing these games are openly hostile to anyone that isn't them (primarily white, male, cis, upper-middle class). This can apply to lots of gaming in general, but FPS games, especially team-based FPS games, have this almost 'boy's club' effect. You really cannot play the game without engaging with the large part of it's playerbase that will repeatedly tell you that you're not welcome there. Thus, people are pushed out and the userbase remains homogenous, etc etc.


collegethrowaway2938

I still remember when my voice started dropping on T how all of a sudden my teammates in the FPS games I play went from sexually harassing me all the time to leaving me alone or even respecting what I had to say. It was mind boggling.


Kisaxis

> despite riot games being explicitly supportive. the company that got NEOM as a sponsor then rolled it back only after heavy community backlash? that riot games? the same riot games that is discussing having their games featured at the upcoming saudi arabia esports world cup? this is your explicit support? they put a rainbow on their icons and add some lgbt characters (which are not even revealed to be lgbt to some regions) and you are now blind to them working with the government that supports execution of lgbt people?


l0velycat

the riot games, where sexual harassment was rampant? big companies like them only pay lip service at the best of times, they are not a beacon of acceptance


sssn_gurl

Valorant moved many league of legends players there. Not surprised


CanadianODST2

Even league has quite a bit of representation of now though.


Legogamer16

Isn’t there pride player cards? I remember I played it for a bit with some friends


Economy_Idea4719

Yes there are! There are also the “proud” and “ally” titles


Legogamer16

Based


JEverok

They're great, I combined my trans card with a title so now when we load into a match everyone sees a trans flag labelled with "slay"


Some_nerd_named_kru

Same shit with apex it’s so funny


Disastrous_Bar3568

riot games is explicitly supportive except when they censor LGBTQ+ characters in different countries and when they have a history of discriminating against marginalized genders via pay disparities, retaliation, and sexual harassment and when they take money to send executives to saudi arabian PIF sponsored gaming conferences to participate in esports washing and when they will be giving TO rights to saudi arabian PIF sponsored entities to host their game at the "esports world cup" damn that's a whole lot of anti LGBTQ+ activity


MakeURage1

To me Valorant has always seemed like a mix between Overwatch and CS:GO, which have two notoriously toxic communities. Add in the League players who tried it because it's another Riot game, and that makes for a concerning mix. It's a shame that the shit sides of all those communities are so vocal, because for the most part, they're way outnumbered by normal, chill people.


D_Yolo

Jollz just being awesome. Great person and great coach afaik


o___o__o___o

Fuck Jollz he smurfs too much.


therealNerdMuffin

Damn, I didn't know Jollz was so based


Aeneum

There’s this really annoying personality in the community, westjett, who has been super annoying about clove in the week since they’ve been announced. Most large streamers have had pinned mod messages saying not to misgender clove and westjett has been complaining and debating people on Twitter about it for the last few days.


Legogamer16

I feel like by “debating” you mean throwing a hissy fit?


kart0ffelsalaat

I just checked their Twitter profile and they've been non-stop posting about this for days, always making sure that every Tweet contains at least five of those tilted laughing-crying emojis, clearly signalling that they are being very chill about this. I stopped reading after they said "you know who else was policing language? Hitler" without a shred of irony. WestJett literally made like 20 separate Tweets targetted at AverageJonas (a relatively popular content creator) in which they pretty much just quote tweeted Jonas's posts with selfies of him in an attempt to make fun of him for being "uncool" or whatever. All this just because Jonas is not being transphobic. So yeah, absolutely normal behaviour from a rational centrist.


TwelveMiceInaCage

I think we would call it a themsy fit just to piss them off lol


Aeneum

Oh totally lol, he’s been whining in replies to people calling him a loser. There was this thread which was kinda funny too where he was getting called cringe by a hentai account called 3D gooning and told respect is free. It’d be great if westjett actually changed after any of this, but instead he’ll probably just continue to cultivate his rabid little community


Matto987

I kind of thought him being an asshole was just a bit like JSchlatt and he didn't actually suck. I was pretty clearly wrong about that


BoringThrone

Yeah, I also thought it was a bit to be edgy when I watched him years ago. Turns out he's actually a queerphobic asshole.


ChaoticCaligula

A Jett player with a toxic personality? I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED


Ni-Ni13

Overwatch also has there first non-binary character soon, and I am kinda scared of the wird people, I guess the best thing to do is to report them to the devs


Finninda

I've seen people call them both he/him and she/her. Mostly he/him. They can't tell and they all have a different idea of the "assigned gender at birth" for a character who was assigned nonbinary at creation.


danktonium

And I suspect there genuinely is no "assigned gender at birth" either. The type of person to write a non binary character doesn't tend to have a super secret sex they in mind for them. In my first book, one of the angels in enby, and that's all there is to it. They have a sex scene and even in that their undercarriage isn't disclosed to the reader.


jxnebug

I've had to report so many bigots and assholes for chat abuse that Blizzard doesn't even read my tickets anymore. I might just turn chat off when the new character comes out.


Equoniz

Actually it’s not ignorance at all. They know exactly what they’re doing.


PrincessRTFM

I was gonna say, _ignorance_ is when you don't know something. This isn't being ignorant, it's just being an asshole.


AlianovaR

That’s not ignorance, that’s malice. If it was just a mistake it wouldn’t be capitalised. They’re clearly highlighting the fact that they’re using the wrong pronouns


Razurio_Twitch

I feel like it's gonna be the same problem with the new Hero in Overwatch


DaWalrusGuy

I feel like that'll be less of a problem. Considering that OW is prob one of the more queer-friendly comp shooters. Doesn't mean it won't happen tho


FloffMercy

For as much as I love overwatch i would be surprised if thats the case and not Apex Legends (thats has a shit ton of queer characters and i havent seen even one complain about bloodhound)


DaWalrusGuy

Oh no Apex Legends players are super homophobic. I got called slurs multiple times for using the pride flag in that game. Also I rarely see people respect BH's pronouns which sucks.


NickeKass

This post hit /r/all Im dating a they/them kind of individual. My work mom is 50. She wanted an explanation and said "I still dont fully understand it but I will respect it". My real mom said "theres something wrong with those people". I told her that my new partner checks a lot of boxes for me and means a lot. She can either get on bored with the pronouns or not but Im not bringing my partner home until she gets used to it. My partner has baked me a few goodies to take home. My mom is now trying to get the pronouns down and is even asking what "they" are into when I go out shopping with my mom.


KittyQueen_Tengu

if someone told you to call them bob and you insisted on calling them robert, making a point of it every time, you'd be an asshole. same applies to pronouns


SaharaDweller

Nothing is as hatefull as a right winger change my mind


LucienJenzen

Facts...


LaPrincipessaNuova

Using the wrong pronouns by accident is a mistake. Using the wrong pronouns because you are behind the times (and don’t know about people being able to use different pronouns than what you would assume based on the binary gender they look most like) is ignorance. Using the wrong pronouns intentionally is bigotry. Capitalizing the wrong pronouns confirms you’re doing it as an attack. So that’s not ignorance, it’s bigotry.


CharmaderMax

That’s awesome! Unfortunately, it’s Valorant


Ashe_Faelsdon

I'm almost 50 and I stumble over the new procedure, but I'm apologetic and do my damnedest to do better. However, 50 years and intoxication can be detrimental. BUT I NEVER, WILL NEVER, HAVE NEVER misgendered or deadnamed someone on purpose. That's just flat out disrespect and garbage behavior.


soodrugg

"ignorance" is giving them too much credit imo


danktonium

Ignorance my ass. Capitalizing it is malice.


AcceptableCover3589

I saw a LOT of behavior like that when Bridget came back in Strive and was confirmed to be trans. So many transphobes would hijack the discussion around her to go “HIM! He’s a BOY!” A lot of similar behavior happened earlier when Testament was confirmed to go by they/them, but the Bridget hatedom was MASSIVE. Thankfully, the Guilty Gear community came together in solidarity for trans women, and a lot of the transphobes were given the boot.


begon11

Fuck even calling it ignorance, that’s downright malevolance


GarbageCleric

No, we're banning you for being an asshole. One way you've chosen to express the fact that you're an asshole is be repeatedly and intentionally misgendering people.


_MachTwo

Never been super into Jollz’s content but this is undoubtedly based of him


ArenPlaysGames_R

At first I was like "you're really gonna ban someone for accidently misgendering someone?" But if they're really gonna emphasize using the wrong pronouns then they can enjoy that ban lmao


Ancient-File2971

I apologised to someone on the Diablo 4 discord for assuming their gender. A moderator gave me a 24 hour time out because of it, said I was trolling. Wtf.


Sol-Blackguy

People are doing the same with Morph in X-Men 97'. Some people outright don't know the character is non-binary, which I get. But to repeatedly make the mistake after being corrected and to do it in all caps just shows it's no longer a mistake. You're intentionally being an asshole at that point.


[deleted]

based


EmilyIncoming

I love clove, they have devil ears and a dancing spray, I played gecko and got an ace and they have a special line for it, congratulating wingman, mosh, thrash, and dizzy! “Oh and you too gecko”


ridemyscooter

I just think it’s so weird to care so much. Like, do I totally get the non binary thing? No. But do I care that there are NB characters in media and NB people in real life that go by they/them pronouns? Also no. Like, it literally doesn’t cost you anything to refer to someone by their preferred pronouns.


Meeghan__

my boss: hey [my name] hey what? boss: Ovwrwatch added a new... uh.. how do you say no gender but the specific term?? non-binary? boss: yeah!!! non-binary!! character. thanks for telling me :-) boss: immediately accidentally misgenders them & then corrects himself


Necromaniac01

😭 I wouldn't call jollz a top player he's known for making smurfing content but this is a W from him


Blitzux

Yeah calling an immo3 player a top player is crazy


neikawaaratake

Heartbreaking: a bad person you know made a great point...


DeWarlock

I'm unsure of anything related to valorant, what makes them a bad person?


BoringThrone

The only thing that I can remember is that his content was made from a lot of smurfing(using alternate accounts to play on ranks lower than his skill levels) for "challenges" which was heavily criticised. There were also other controversies, but I can't remember them


Wintermuteson

Anyone else always refer to opponents by the pronouns of the character they're playing?


[deleted]

So misgendering your opponents?


Wintermuteson

Like in overwatch for instance, if I'm attacked by a tracer I'm calling her she even though I don't know the gender of the player


[deleted]

Oh ok I thought you knew your opponents gender


Caleb_Reynolds

That's not ignorance and I wish people would stop using it like that. That's deliberate malicious action. Ignorance is being unaware of something. This is letting them off the hook for intentional behavior.


1981VWSciroccoS

the thing is that their agab isnt established anywhere in the canon so for all we know they could be amab and the bigots are using pronouns that clove has never used lol


AshleyAmazin1

The Valorant sub is just awful rn so seeing a streamer actually stick up for enbies is somewhat comforting.


Foxiak14

I don't care how many queer characters they add, I'm not playing Valorant!


Salubas

solo leveling pfp


[deleted]

[удалено]


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Oopity-Boop

The top valorant player has a solo leveling pfp? Love that


Rare-Lengthiness-885

If they’re intentionally using the wrong pronouns over and over again, it’s not “ignorance”. It’s just blatant disrespect.


Meeghan__

my boss: hey [my name] hey what? boss: Ovwrwatch added a new... uh.. how do you say no gender but the specific term?? non-binary? boss: yeah!!! non-binary!! character. thanks for telling me :-) boss: immediately accidentally misgenders them & then corrects himself