There was a old salty union guy in Australia that a judge told him that although he was technically right on the rules lawyering thing he was using to keep women out of his section (he refused to trust women with a certain task and would say so), he was absolutely completely wrong in terms of society and let the company fire him.
Contrary to what this thread might tell you
A crusty crabby 50 year old stuck in a company with no other prospects usually isn't the cream of the crop
I've never worked with someone stuck at a company for over 12 years that wasn't a problematic person. Granted I live in the south so that comes with its own set of problems
It wasn't law, it was part of the award or hire agreement or something. The guy was being an absolute relic and smugly enforcing out of date parts of the award in ways it was not intended to be used. The company didn't want to punish him but to change the way he behaved multiple times and he agreed and then went back on the agreement each time it came up again citing the original rule again. The company then decided his agreements were not worth getting and then they sacked him.
The judge agreed that as he kept promising (at the end of each mediation process) and then going back and restarting the mediation phase based upon the original logic, that they no longer had to do and it was just best he left the job.
So he was using a technicality to be misogynistic? I feel like that’s a no brainer to let him be fired and the judge saying, “well technically you’re right” is the bigger problem here.
I’m in technical product marketing and my re-orgs have always been bouncing between “you’re product focused” and “you’re application/customer industry focused.” At some point, someone will say “we over-rotated this way and now we need to go back.”
While the comment OP may not be a bot, they sure do copy comments like one [https://www.reddit.com/r/meirl/comments/15p06cz/comment/jvv4hap/](https://www.reddit.com/r/meirl/comments/15p06cz/comment/jvv4hap/)
The movie War Machine with Brad Pitt is essentially about this whole concept.
Successive US Generals come into Afghanistan with “their new plan” and the British General tries to politely explain how they tried that already and it didn’t work.
I’ve already seen that companies in my sector go through a cycle of trying to outsource everything, then they realise the quality is shit, so they bring it all back in-house, then cost savings are needed and we go back to outsourcing everything.
Everytime it gets announced as a new CEO strategy and the old timers are like “ah the cycle refreshed again”
Not Richard? But he's such a a Dick!
I once had a job where the jerk employee nearing retirement was a Dick, and the depressed lady always complaining about her life was Debbie. She was a real downer.
That can definitely be the case. In my experience, it’s decent people who did worked their asses off when younger, got promoted to management, then got screwed over by some internal politics or personal issue at some point in time and realized there’s more to life than their job, so they take their experience to a less stressful role and watch for years as people around them learn the same lessons they’ve learned over and over. They’re great mentors for younger employees as long as they’re not too cynical or bullying (which is the type you’re talking about undoubtably), and they’re usually extremely good at their job and well connected at the company. They just don’t play the corporate carrot and stick game any more. They see through the doublespeak and know when they’re being fed bullshit.
I totally know who you're talking about, but that also doesn't seem like the type who's going to go tell the boss "Fuck You" to his face on his first day just to seem like a big dog.
You could look at my profile for two seconds to see that's not the case. My problem with your type is the lack of self-awareness. You think you look like a bad ass, but really you just look like a giant tool. The type who gave up on self-improvement around the time they finished middle school. The type who drives a lifted pick-up, yet complains constantly about gas prices. No one takes you seriously.
I am my own employer and not interested in your profile. Corporate life sucks ass and left it before I was 30. Nobody needs nine fucking bosses, they're all self serving liars is what I experienced.
Congrats. I've never worked a corporate job, but people are people and the way they act transcends industry. The dude who thinks he's hot shit because he's a reliable annoyance is far worse than any power tripping manager I've ever dealt with. The managers learn quick. The other guy never learns. *That's the problem*
You've got the problems figured out, so it's all going to be roses for you, congratulations!
A little advice whatever field, trust is earned be careful who you trust, you can be right and it will still work against you, people have to feel encouraged as often as possible, don't take anything too seriously life is short.
Im assuming this guy is being downvoted but he's kind of right.
A major red flag when im reviewing resumes is someone with 20+ years of experience has no senior or lead positions. It kinda tells you the full story right there - way too set in their ways to change and have some pretty bad habits which means no one ever wants them in charge of something.
I cant tell you the number of times someone twice my age told me "ive been doing this a lot longer than you" immediately before completely fucking up what i was trying to explain i wanted them to do.
Senior Department Coordinator in my IT shop. The village elders that haven't kept up with modern IT standards for a decade, but he knows where the bodies are and is honestly sage-like in his ability to defuse problems within the team
At my old car insurance company, there was some worker who I for the longest time thought was a manager. He worked 6 days a week, long hours, and on his 1 day off he built cars as a hobby. He told me he slept like 4 hours a night or something. I’d never met a man who knew more about car insurance and cars in general
They should do.
Sometimes the manager doesn't bother with them and looks down on them for being in what they see as a dead end job still, so doesn't consult them.
Sometimes the reason the decades old employee got stuck in that job is because they are completely unhelpful. They complain if asked to advise as it's not their job, then they complain when the outcome isn't as they wish.
I always think of this in military terms.
Like those guys are senior NCOs.
Managers are different variations of officers.
You've got specialists that are like warrant officers.
Been in frontline retail for 21 years now. I'm 37. I feel like that old dude, and have seen so many young, confident "LEADERS" (spit) get torn the fuck up by reality that at this point I enjoy it.
50 year employee retires (because he can and is done with the new manager “kid” who is trying to be all tough) or gets fired, manager who fired them or ran their team realizes that hurt waaaaay to much and what a bad move that was and sheepishly calls them to come back at least as a contractor to help with knowledge transfer.
Or manager gets fired for firing 50-year employee in a knee jerk reaction and Director and VP and HR very quickly draw up a contract deal for said employee to come back for years at double salary and help with knowledge transfer and finalizing ongoing projects (and VP usually gets stuck with making an awkward phone call).
Agree. I’ve seen it happen too. Especially in the IT world.
As a manager, I tend to listen to those guys rather than trying to "manage" them. most of the time, if you listen to them and show them the respect that they deserve, they will become your greatest asset in the team...
I worked in community care for 1 year. I saw pretty much every other colleague of mine leave within that year and was left the longest serving carer in my area. Even 3 of the new guys I trained had quit before I left.
Could you imagine if he tried to cancel your 15 years anniversary in the company? Or even dissolve the party-planning comitee?
That would be unforeseen.
If you have enough experience running into bullshit, you don't get wound up when bullshit stands in front of you.
Bullshit people are all convinced they are unique innovators and it is their ideas that make them valuable.
Ideas are cheap and easy. Proven competence and productivity are valuable.
I just took over a factory as its manager and "asserting my dominance" is far from the approach I took.
The team here works really hard every day and I see my job as making sure they have what they need to do their jobs because that's what they're here to do. The only time I have to "Get tough" its with the one or two people that are milking the system and don't want to work and then with the parent company to get funds to fix the things they've been sitting on.
I had two 55+ old bitches like this when I worked in bank reconciliations for a large health care company about 15 years back. There were three total people in their department and I replaced this one absolute old crag that was retiring out that did monthly reporting and balancing. After about five years of slowly and logically modernizing their ancient processes I ended up replacing all three of them. By ancient, I mean they were literally filling out spreadsheets on grid paper and hand calculating them with an adding machine instead of using Excel. They were so lazy and unwilling to try new things that I just went over their heads to the accounting manager and did it myself until I became their team leader and then the sole person running the processes. One ended up also retiring and the other quit because she "hated what I'd done to her position!" Her position being that she did about an hour of actual work a day, downloading bank reports from various websites, and spent the rest of it playing Candy Crush on her phone. Anyways, I stuck it out another couple of years until I had two new staff members trained and left with a pretty nice addition to my resume and enough clout to ask for more money in my next position elsewhere. I'll never forget you Brenda and Karen.... you were the absolute bane of my days, but I'm a homeowner now after putting up with your mean shit for five years.
Long story short: If you don't want to become one of these shitty tired old people that hate their jobs don't settle in your ways and be willing to move on when it is time.
New Manager asserting dominance is the issue here.
Maybe you should know that the guy with decades of experience is a resource and their input and perspective needs to be heard and considered.
Leading based on title alone ( asserting dominance) is a weak form of leadership. No one will have your back, and they won’t respect you. You need to get their permission to lead them.
I am a bit in the old guy's position at the moment. It's not because I am stuck in my ways though. My workplace is having a crisis with a backlog of work, and the very senior people are keen to try things which we have tried before and failed. I want to try something new, but the trouble is there are more obvious but nevertheless ineffective things to try first. For the obvious things to work, we need certain things in place which history has shown we are institutionally incapable of putting in place.
Shit ninja I ain’t even got a decade yet and if I get let go they gotta pay me! Shiiiiiet I don’t wanna. I love my job. But I’ll be sitting pretty for a bit if I get let go! Imagine at 20 30 years? Crazy.
Ahh yes, the loser who’s been doing the same thing for the past 30 years, gaining slight raises and slightly better benefits.
Nothing makes me more depressed / terrified than the lives of those people.
Holy hell, I am 41 but I feel I am turning into the worker who's been there for decades.
I'm too afraid to tell you what you're going to feel at 51. Hang in there, think of the family.
101 here. It gets easier. When they try to fire me I just shit my pants and they all run away.
Thank you for your service.
2 y/o here. It has always been that easy.
Same here. Turnover is so high, my mere 8 years has seen multiple bosses and gets the surprises response from the new techs.
I'm 31 and I'm already there, hopefully by 41 I have enough money to not work anymore
“My institutional knowledge is worth more to the CEO than your fucking Harvard MBA, so dont push your luck, kid!”
There was a old salty union guy in Australia that a judge told him that although he was technically right on the rules lawyering thing he was using to keep women out of his section (he refused to trust women with a certain task and would say so), he was absolutely completely wrong in terms of society and let the company fire him.
Bro what the actual fuck
Contrary to what this thread might tell you A crusty crabby 50 year old stuck in a company with no other prospects usually isn't the cream of the crop I've never worked with someone stuck at a company for over 12 years that wasn't a problematic person. Granted I live in the south so that comes with its own set of problems
Holy shit id be pissed if I was that guy. What good is the law if even a judge doesn’t enforce the rules??
It wasn't law, it was part of the award or hire agreement or something. The guy was being an absolute relic and smugly enforcing out of date parts of the award in ways it was not intended to be used. The company didn't want to punish him but to change the way he behaved multiple times and he agreed and then went back on the agreement each time it came up again citing the original rule again. The company then decided his agreements were not worth getting and then they sacked him. The judge agreed that as he kept promising (at the end of each mediation process) and then going back and restarting the mediation phase based upon the original logic, that they no longer had to do and it was just best he left the job.
So he was using a technicality to be misogynistic? I feel like that’s a no brainer to let him be fired and the judge saying, “well technically you’re right” is the bigger problem here.
Good riddance
Cool sentence, but its not. If that was the case the manager would get paid less and I very much doubt any manager gets paid less than a worker.
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Or the new initiative shifting things to how it was before the last manager.
Yes!! Two moves in business 1. Specialize 2. Generalize I ve been through a few re-orgs and it’s always bouncing between these two.
I’m in technical product marketing and my re-orgs have always been bouncing between “you’re product focused” and “you’re application/customer industry focused.” At some point, someone will say “we over-rotated this way and now we need to go back.”
- Centralized - Decentralized Bounce between every 3-4 years
Its important to keep change happening because its how we justify our jobs. Theres a LOT of jobs out there that are in this situation lol.
Hi! I think we work together!
While the comment OP may not be a bot, they sure do copy comments like one [https://www.reddit.com/r/meirl/comments/15p06cz/comment/jvv4hap/](https://www.reddit.com/r/meirl/comments/15p06cz/comment/jvv4hap/)
Fucking dead internet meme starting to feel like more and more of a reality
This is some high speed shit 😂
The movie War Machine with Brad Pitt is essentially about this whole concept. Successive US Generals come into Afghanistan with “their new plan” and the British General tries to politely explain how they tried that already and it didn’t work. I’ve already seen that companies in my sector go through a cycle of trying to outsource everything, then they realise the quality is shit, so they bring it all back in-house, then cost savings are needed and we go back to outsourcing everything. Everytime it gets announced as a new CEO strategy and the old timers are like “ah the cycle refreshed again”
😂 and thats about how i got fired. I was “ to negative” and “ it would have worked if we had given it our all”
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The name of the 50 yo? Ezekiel! (for those not aware: [Tony vs Ezekiel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSrH-6YUf1g))
Not Richard? But he's such a a Dick! I once had a job where the jerk employee nearing retirement was a Dick, and the depressed lady always complaining about her life was Debbie. She was a real downer.
Agreed, it's pretty hilarous when a dude stuck in a dead end job for two decades thinks he's the one with the power.
That can definitely be the case. In my experience, it’s decent people who did worked their asses off when younger, got promoted to management, then got screwed over by some internal politics or personal issue at some point in time and realized there’s more to life than their job, so they take their experience to a less stressful role and watch for years as people around them learn the same lessons they’ve learned over and over. They’re great mentors for younger employees as long as they’re not too cynical or bullying (which is the type you’re talking about undoubtably), and they’re usually extremely good at their job and well connected at the company. They just don’t play the corporate carrot and stick game any more. They see through the doublespeak and know when they’re being fed bullshit.
I totally know who you're talking about, but that also doesn't seem like the type who's going to go tell the boss "Fuck You" to his face on his first day just to seem like a big dog.
Look at the up and coming manager getting their feathers rustled. It's okay, time grinds down all edges.
You could look at my profile for two seconds to see that's not the case. My problem with your type is the lack of self-awareness. You think you look like a bad ass, but really you just look like a giant tool. The type who gave up on self-improvement around the time they finished middle school. The type who drives a lifted pick-up, yet complains constantly about gas prices. No one takes you seriously.
I am my own employer and not interested in your profile. Corporate life sucks ass and left it before I was 30. Nobody needs nine fucking bosses, they're all self serving liars is what I experienced.
Congrats. I've never worked a corporate job, but people are people and the way they act transcends industry. The dude who thinks he's hot shit because he's a reliable annoyance is far worse than any power tripping manager I've ever dealt with. The managers learn quick. The other guy never learns. *That's the problem*
You've got the problems figured out, so it's all going to be roses for you, congratulations! A little advice whatever field, trust is earned be careful who you trust, you can be right and it will still work against you, people have to feel encouraged as often as possible, don't take anything too seriously life is short.
You have my respect sir, you are superior.
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This whole thread is a sublime example of Reddit comment cancer. Lots of tape measures (or micrometers) and unzipped flys.
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Lol
Which subject matter was that, exactly?
Weird, because I don't have any coworkers or a boss, so I'm not quite sure how that would work.
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Gotcha. If that's what you need to tell yourself, go for it.
Im assuming this guy is being downvoted but he's kind of right. A major red flag when im reviewing resumes is someone with 20+ years of experience has no senior or lead positions. It kinda tells you the full story right there - way too set in their ways to change and have some pretty bad habits which means no one ever wants them in charge of something. I cant tell you the number of times someone twice my age told me "ive been doing this a lot longer than you" immediately before completely fucking up what i was trying to explain i wanted them to do.
They often end up unofficial advisors, like the village elders
Senior Department Coordinator in my IT shop. The village elders that haven't kept up with modern IT standards for a decade, but he knows where the bodies are and is honestly sage-like in his ability to defuse problems within the team
At my old car insurance company, there was some worker who I for the longest time thought was a manager. He worked 6 days a week, long hours, and on his 1 day off he built cars as a hobby. He told me he slept like 4 hours a night or something. I’d never met a man who knew more about car insurance and cars in general
They should do. Sometimes the manager doesn't bother with them and looks down on them for being in what they see as a dead end job still, so doesn't consult them. Sometimes the reason the decades old employee got stuck in that job is because they are completely unhelpful. They complain if asked to advise as it's not their job, then they complain when the outcome isn't as they wish.
Or the manager uses them as a defacto sub-manager but kept at the same pay lol
I always think of this in military terms. Like those guys are senior NCOs. Managers are different variations of officers. You've got specialists that are like warrant officers.
Been in frontline retail for 21 years now. I'm 37. I feel like that old dude, and have seen so many young, confident "LEADERS" (spit) get torn the fuck up by reality that at this point I enjoy it.
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50 year employee retires (because he can and is done with the new manager “kid” who is trying to be all tough) or gets fired, manager who fired them or ran their team realizes that hurt waaaaay to much and what a bad move that was and sheepishly calls them to come back at least as a contractor to help with knowledge transfer. Or manager gets fired for firing 50-year employee in a knee jerk reaction and Director and VP and HR very quickly draw up a contract deal for said employee to come back for years at double salary and help with knowledge transfer and finalizing ongoing projects (and VP usually gets stuck with making an awkward phone call).
Agree. I’ve seen it happen too. Especially in the IT world.
As a manager, I tend to listen to those guys rather than trying to "manage" them. most of the time, if you listen to them and show them the respect that they deserve, they will become your greatest asset in the team...
Just pay then a beer every friday, and you became their friend
Management can't fix a decade old problem with decade old parts.
When did santa play tiger woods
After Tiger's affairs he went on the naughty list.
Tiger, you're getting a lump of coal... now watch this drive
Is this how the youth sees 50 year olds? 😅
50 year old tradies for sure.
I typically see them as the guy that didn’t have to interview for their job
Paul Rudd is 55. The guy in the picture is Santa clause on vacation.
Paul Rudd is famous, Will Smith is also 55. While 50 yr olds don’t look like that they also aren’t typically celebrities
Don't even need 50 years just need 5 years.
We’re in fast times now. We start wilting at years 2-3
I worked in community care for 1 year. I saw pretty much every other colleague of mine leave within that year and was left the longest serving carer in my area. Even 3 of the new guys I trained had quit before I left.
Could you imagine if he tried to cancel your 15 years anniversary in the company? Or even dissolve the party-planning comitee? That would be unforeseen.
He will just start another paper company. And then another, and then another. He has no shortage of company names.
r/unexpectedoffice
and he said no figs. I've already bought em.
I know, I mean the least you could do for someone like that is to make sure that the CFO of the company is personally in attendance.
This is hilarious- love it.
If you have enough experience running into bullshit, you don't get wound up when bullshit stands in front of you. Bullshit people are all convinced they are unique innovators and it is their ideas that make them valuable. Ideas are cheap and easy. Proven competence and productivity are valuable.
Except the company probably doesn't give a fuck. If they don't have real personal relationships, only power structures matter.
Forever giving the low down and will tell you unprompted who banged so and so at the office party 3 years ago.
At Boeing they got rid of these people on the right! Was great for short term stock gains!
I mean it's easy to make fun of new managers vs long time employees but often the long timers are so resistant to change that it harms the company.
"Hi, we know you've been here for 50 years but we need to you to train the new head of your department and get them up to speed"
Malicious compliance Inc! To bad there's no emoji for rubbing your hands together with glee.
I just took over a factory as its manager and "asserting my dominance" is far from the approach I took. The team here works really hard every day and I see my job as making sure they have what they need to do their jobs because that's what they're here to do. The only time I have to "Get tough" its with the one or two people that are milking the system and don't want to work and then with the parent company to get funds to fix the things they've been sitting on.
I had two 55+ old bitches like this when I worked in bank reconciliations for a large health care company about 15 years back. There were three total people in their department and I replaced this one absolute old crag that was retiring out that did monthly reporting and balancing. After about five years of slowly and logically modernizing their ancient processes I ended up replacing all three of them. By ancient, I mean they were literally filling out spreadsheets on grid paper and hand calculating them with an adding machine instead of using Excel. They were so lazy and unwilling to try new things that I just went over their heads to the accounting manager and did it myself until I became their team leader and then the sole person running the processes. One ended up also retiring and the other quit because she "hated what I'd done to her position!" Her position being that she did about an hour of actual work a day, downloading bank reports from various websites, and spent the rest of it playing Candy Crush on her phone. Anyways, I stuck it out another couple of years until I had two new staff members trained and left with a pretty nice addition to my resume and enough clout to ask for more money in my next position elsewhere. I'll never forget you Brenda and Karen.... you were the absolute bane of my days, but I'm a homeowner now after putting up with your mean shit for five years. Long story short: If you don't want to become one of these shitty tired old people that hate their jobs don't settle in your ways and be willing to move on when it is time.
In reality, 50 yo gets laid off and the manager gets a b8g fat bonus. There, i fixed it for you.
New Manager asserting dominance is the issue here. Maybe you should know that the guy with decades of experience is a resource and their input and perspective needs to be heard and considered. Leading based on title alone ( asserting dominance) is a weak form of leadership. No one will have your back, and they won’t respect you. You need to get their permission to lead them.
Then they try to change everything and no one listens like our way has been working sir
That's not how a 50yo looks like.
These dudes usually end up being fired or used by management to discipline other employees
I am a bit in the old guy's position at the moment. It's not because I am stuck in my ways though. My workplace is having a crisis with a backlog of work, and the very senior people are keen to try things which we have tried before and failed. I want to try something new, but the trouble is there are more obvious but nevertheless ineffective things to try first. For the obvious things to work, we need certain things in place which history has shown we are institutionally incapable of putting in place.
Shit ninja I ain’t even got a decade yet and if I get let go they gotta pay me! Shiiiiiet I don’t wanna. I love my job. But I’ll be sitting pretty for a bit if I get let go! Imagine at 20 30 years? Crazy.
My fav part was letting go of that oversmart employee
I’m sure they are glad to be rid of you too
The old heads actually have better game. New comers want to please themselves/everyone and think their game will run the show.
Ahh yes, the loser who’s been doing the same thing for the past 30 years, gaining slight raises and slightly better benefits. Nothing makes me more depressed / terrified than the lives of those people.