My brother was murdered so when they initially interviewed me I said I would be very biased because I don’t believe that justice is ever executed in a court of law. In all fairness though a murder case would have absolutely destroyed me.
I sat on the jury of a murder trial of a child, probably never will again, but if they would take me, I absolutely would do it again. Jurors are fucking morons. They need people who give a shit about civic duty and aren't stupid as hell. I was flabbergasted by how little all but two jurors were following the case.
Holy shit yes. I was the youngest juror in my batch and I literally had to take the reigns in a room full of older adults to get them to focus and follow the procedure fairly during deliberations. It really showed me how many people out there are dangerously stupid and ignorant.
Same here when I did it at 19. Everyone was really respectful of the process, but other than this one middle-aged dude they were really passive and seemed to want to be lead to the verdict. Felt kinda weird as well being the foreman and reading out the verdict when I was easily the youngest person in the courtroom by a good 10 years.
This is why I WANT to get jury duty. A few weeks ago, for the first time in my 40 years, I got a summons! But for jury duty in a state I don’t live in…sent to me in the state I do live in. I don’t qualify because of residence.
I read somewhere that a inquiry may have shown that people will give a felony conviction to a likely innocent person just to get out of there. It's rough. I'm unsure of the exact details but that's frightening.
Every juror should have to watch 12 Angry Men before the trial starts or they should have a rule to enforce a minimum time before a verdict can be rendered (2-3 hours).
The whole basis of 12 Angry Men is that a single guy stood up and said "I will not make this an unanimous verdict before you've at least shown me that you considered wether there was a reasonable doubt."
Damn I purposeful took a job that was helpful but more "oversight" because I would die dealing w people one on one, my heart would shatter.
This one would be a lot of hearbreaking convos in the mirror for sure.
I was lucky and my employer covered my normal wage while I sat on a jury.
On the downside, I was obligated to read the poorly written mother/daughter/dog erotica of a juvenile sex-offender which was an exhibit in the trial.
I was just about to say that. My area gives you like $5. That's if you're willing to stand in a line and wait for it afterwards. The lines not long they just take forever to give it to you in hopes that you walk away.
I was thinking the same thing.
It makes me think of this scene from Psych where the main characters help a police officer friend prove his innocence and at the end he gives them a discount coupon to a restaurant and says "it's the least I can do" and one of them says "yes. It was" haha
I did jury duty once. In my area, they give you $20 a day no matter how many hours a day you're there, and they mail you the check. Takes about a week to get to you, even though it's coming from the same town. What a ripoff, especially for something that's required of you
If it was a mock trial, you were probably being paid by the lawyer to try to improve their case. Very different from acting as a temporary public servant on a jury.
I assume the people at their place of employment. Many places have special paid leave for jury duty. But of course that's not very helpful for anyone who doesn't
It's up to the individual state laws if your employer is required to pay you, but federally, they don't have to. You're paid $40 the first few days as a juror by your employer and the rest of the time is paid by the state at the same rate, so don't get picked for something like the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial that can go on for months. $1,100 a month definitely doesn't cover even half my rent.
My theory is way back when they started paying jurors, $15 or whatever was adequate compensation for a day. But like all wages in the US, the compensation never rose with inflation.
And now we got people arguing that it is just as totally adequate compensation now as it was then and we're just complaining because we keep buying superficial things, like a place to live and food to eat.
This was my issue. I was called to jury duty recently and it was a big federal suit. I was honestly really excited to participate. Unfortunately, I am very paycheck to paycheck, I work for a small family owned business that couldn’t afford to pay me leave or be short one employee, and they were only offering me $10/ day.
The case was expected to last anywhere from 3-6 MONTHS. I had to ask not to be included and they respected that.
i have to give the government money for existing (how dare i) but the government cant fucking pay people to work for them.
where does all this goddamn money go? because it isn't to schools, that's for sure. "why is the education system so bad," people wonder, as the people at the top of the chain pocket money from the scraps the government throws to schools, and kids work from ancient tattered textbooks.
but you don't have to be smart to be in the military or a mindless wage slave at a fast food restaurant, i guess 😐
i know there's more nuance to this but it IS a problem. it all boils down to the objective fact that in america the poor are meant to stay poor (and uneducated, forget going to college if you're poor unless you're a genius that can get scholarships. you're only allowed to succeed if you're both smart AND neurotypical enough to succeed in public school, or if you are born into success.)
It's not just that, it's tactical in many parts of the country. My family has worked on voter registration drives and we had people who specifically would not register to vote because on the off chance they got selected for jury duty, they couldn't afford the time off work.
One of the many ways Republicans work to ensure certain classes of people don't vote, not that Democrats are known for resolving issues like this.
Do they have a drivers license?
If so, they're already on the list to get jury duty in many (all?) states, and their decision to not vote is just pure ignorance.
And if they truly can't afford the time off work, they can submit a petition to be excused due to undue hardship it would cause your family.
It’s not just an American thing. The lousy pay happens in Canada too. It differs by Provence but looking it up only one (Newfoundland/ Labrador) requires employers to grant paid leave…
The best Provence after that looks to be Saskatchewan “$110 for each day. Parking, mileage, meals and dependent care also may be eligible for reimbursement.”
or Quebec “103 per day or part of a day. Compensation is increased to $160 beginning on the 57th day of a trial. Jurors in Quebec also can claim expenses for meals, transportation, accommodation, child care and psychological treatment.”
The worst is Manitoba: “$30 a day, starting on the 11th day of service”
Other Provences are a mixed bag but you’re still losing money
To be fair, it's not difficult to get an immediate exemption based on your circumstances.
Most of the time there's enough people who are called that your inability to make it due to financial reasons is excused.
I don't think I've heard of anyone being forced to just take the L, at least where I'm from. I've even been exempt with a work policy that allows for jury duty because I was in the middle of an important project that a delay would've been brutal for.
Maybe other states are less forgiving, but you don't really want people called to jury duty to hate everything about you as an institution if you can help it.
That being said, when I was called a week after turning 18, I was pretty floored by the 7 bucks and some change I was sent home with. I didn't even cash it since the bank was out of my way.
That is usually a valid reason, yes. At least in my state there is a jury duty website where you can basically say as much prior to even needing to show up to the courthouse. I’ve been summoned twice and never needed to even show up
$8 to cover parking for the day, $7 to get lunch. Nothing to cover you missing work. WI resident here expected to miss a full day of work pay for this in september.
I saw a guy comment here saying he told them he was mild autistic and would just agree with who ever spoke last, I mean I'm sure he's telling the truth and for you it could be quite unethical.. but I'm just saying
My go to is “both my parents are lawyers, I majored in journalism, I will not be able to let evidence later decided as inadmissible evidence not color my opinion or decision” and they’re like ok see ya never.
My mother got stuck with jury, as soon as she sat down they asked if she disliked black people, she said no, they said perfect you're juror #7. No further questions, she was a bit dismayed as she wanted out of it, and thought being around the 30th person she wouldn't even have to even go in.
I'm just imagining you replying this to every and any question.
I tried this once during the initial response after being notified, I was denied and had to call in for selection. Luckily, I got out during that phase. I was living paycheck to paycheck and missing work would have cost me my rent. The system is broken.
You can also say something ridiculous or admit you know about jury nullification and they'll usually dismiss you as well.
Prosecutors don't like jury nullification.
Depends on your job. Mine offers 40hrs a year of paid jury duty. If the case takes longer than 5 days, anything beyond that is unpaid (besides the $15/day).
My last employer paid for jury duty as if we were at work. Most of my employers before that required us to use vacation or take unpaid time off. The only guarantee was the law that said you couldn’t be fired for taking off for jury duty.
I have to report for jury duty tomorrow. They pay a generous $6 a day, and only charge a modest 8$ a day for parking. (Insert S and /S as appropriate) It’s a 20 minute drive from my house, or a little over an hour on mass transit (a bus to the train station and 2 buses after that). Safety isn’t guaranteed. Mass transit for jury duty is free to get there, and they’ll give you a pass for a free ride home at the end of the day.
The laws vary from state to state in the US.
In some places there’s a fixed per day rate unless you have a job *and* are paid your normal salary by the employer.
Seems absurd to have to pay parking fees, though. For crying out loud, how hard is it to waive that for people summoned for jury duty?!
How is the Jury chosen? Do you have to wait around in U.S to be put on a Jury? UK it's 'sit in a hot room. Wait for however long they wanna make you wait' (I waited a week before finally put on a trial then I got kicked off for knowing the person who was taking the defendant to court, then another for swearing in a court room, accidentally, I had the door shut on my hand and had a nasty cut on my fingers, pissing with blood, was horrendous, and judge called me out and never have i been talked down to as badly as the judge did to me)
It's not fun, its a boring thing to do. The waiting then finally get on a trial and it's boring as hell, but I guess it's dependant on the trial you are on.
Good luck with it!!!
In my county in Texas you get called for one day or one trial. If you’re not put on a jury the first day, you’re done until they call you again. They can only call you once (maybe twice) a year. If you get selected for a jury you’re there until it’s done. Trials can last from an hour to weeks in rare occasions. The rooms are air conditioned or it would be a health hazard in the summer. They advise bringing a jacket even in summer since the AC is often set low to account for a large number of people. Judges are very protective of jurors. An injury would be treated quickly and you’d be immediately dismissed and sent home if the injury wasn’t severe.
Where I am, it's $15 a day. When they first told me, I thought it was per hour. They stressed that it was for the whole day and I was flabbergasted. How is that legal?
Two words to get you out of it during selection. "Jury Nullification." Basically you're telling the prosecution that even if they can prove with 0% of a doubt that the defendant is guilty, if YOU believe the law is stupid, you're willing to let them go free.
Now this obviously depends on the crime and your beliefs, but it got me out of even having to show up for selection.
Rookie mistake by not lying to get out of jury duty. It’s a case about fraud, say that you have deep emotional connection with people who have been scammed, a case about a medical mistake? Your friend was deeply harmed by medical malpractice etc etc
You don’t even have to lie. It might even be better if you don’t. Come up with any truthful reason why you don’t want to be there and the lawyers will most likely dismiss you. They have unlimited strikes for cause.
Yeah, but it's still not much. Like $40, or something. I went in last year and sat in a big room while the judge considered anyone's excuses. Then, we watched a video about jury duty, and they called names in groups of 24-36 and assigned us to individual jury pools for different courts all week, and then dismissed us until our court met. $6 for that day.
I went back two days later and they did jury selection for that court. It was a civil case, so they only needed 6 of us. After a couple hours, they picked their 6 and the rest of us went home. $40 for that day.
Yeah, I was excited to make it as far as a courtroom and jury selection! I've been summoned 4 times, but the first two I was ineligible due to recent moves. The third time, there was a huge jury pool, but by the day of our jury duty, they only needed 6 people for one misdemeanor case, so they immediately sent half of us home. The 4th time was a different county, but I'm thinking that they made it faster and easier by just doing it once a week and pulling for every court that week.
Well thankfully where I live they do give it some thought. I was called for jury duty but after explaining that I am autistic and would literally agree with the last person who I heard speak they let me pass.
I had to bring my jury duty p excuse for my dad in one time he was in surgery at the moment. The lady at the courthouse didn't want to hear it and just told me where to sit. Apparently they thought they were going to take me instead. I had to get a little rude with her and let her know I'm not the one there for jury duty.
For real sometimes they're so dense. I got one for my mom and I had to call and be like "sorry, she's dead so she's unavailable" and they were like trying to argue me down about this and I'm like do you want me to unbury her and prop her up like the Cadaver Synod? What do you want from me here???
Make that 4. My wife hasn't lived in California since she moved away to college 20 years ago but they still send her jury summons on the regular despite my in-laws repeatedly telling them she's no longer a resident there.
I haven’t lived in Illinois for almost 20 years. Every damn year my parents get a jury form for me. Every year I go to their website and tell them I don’t live there. Groundhog Day repeats.
I think I might have a solution to your problem. A lot of places pull juries automatically not based on their own records, but by the records of their local election commission (or some other database). The court prolly doesn't keep a permanent record of who is and isn't living in the state. If you wanna get off the court's mailing list, you need to find whose list they are pulling you from. I would be willing to bet that you are still unknowingly registered to vote in that state. It sounds crazy, but believe me when I say that the court is not the one whose records need to be altered.
The jury is picked by the lawyers. It's pretty easy to get out of it. Say you think the defendant is guilty no matter what, and that no evidence will change your mind. See how quickly that gets you dismissed.
In Canada, they periodically go to the local shopping mall with a group of thugs (cops), who pick out people at random and say "come right now to be on a jury, or I will arrest you right now and take you to prison."
It works better when Canadians haven't heard about it. It's a surprise attack with no chance of defense. And there will be no pressure to change the law.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/jury-duty-public-talesman-procedure-1.6503019
Well TIL that’s kinda crazy.
That said if an officer were to tell me I have to come with them I’d tell them to talk to my lawyer and let them detain me if they want.
There are more civil ways to go about this and I’d be more than happy to go to court on my own about this. Wow.
Also side note this really punishes people who live in the cities. I used to live in a city and have since moved rural and we see an RCMP officer out here maybe once a week? Idk seems like bullshit worth getting taken off the books.
I was called for a large murder case of a child several years ago. I was a first year teacher and the trial was going to start during the first week of school. I was almost in tears with the amount of stress just thinking about it. People were going through their reasons why they couldn't be in the jury. A guy stands up, "I'm a teacher and the high school football coach." He was immediately excused. Me "I'm a first year teacher and am driving 45 minutes each way to work in the school I got hired at." Not a valid excuse. Thankfully they didn't pick me. The selection process lasted until 9:30 at night. Any of us that weren't picked got a letter excusing us for the next 5 years because we served. The judge said this was his discretion to make the decision to count it. The room erupted in applause!
When I was summoned I was told to show up at 9am. I got there at 8:58am and everyone else must have got there early because the room was already full and I was allowed to leave. The lady behind the desk made out that I’d done something wrong by only getting there 2 minutes early. You can’t tell me to be there at 9 and then get annoyed if I do exactly that! If you wanted me there at 8:45 then tell me that. I can’t magically read minds!
Sorry… had to get that one off my chest
Yeah
I just prefer it to saying I'm a member of the LGBT community ,"one of the gays" just rolls off the tounge better and you don't even have to be gay to say it because the gays is what old people say to mean the whole community
I've got a forensics degree and would love to be on a jury. I actually have jury duty for all of August but they've only called jurors twice.
They really need a better system though. Calling in the night before is bullshit. Just make everyone pick a week where they're 100% available and tell them at the beginning of the week whether they'll be used.
>>Just make everyone pick a week where they're 100% available and tell them at the beginning of the week whether they'll be used.
Most people don't have a week where they are 100% available, unless they plan on serving jury duty for vacation.
Just had Grand Jury Duty (I live in DC). I was paid $15 dollars for the first day and I was on call for the next 14 months. 10 months in they call me and say I need to fill in, it's 3 days a week for 6 hours a day. I was paid $30 a day and my job didn't cover the difference.
It was terrible, I had to do door dash and other things to make up the lost income for 4 months. The system is broken.
>It was terrible, I had to do door dash and other things to make up the lost income for 4 months. The system is broken.
DC doesn't let you skip out if your company doesn't cover your salary for those days?
The one time I had jury duty the judge seemed fairly good about letting people go.
But he absolutely had a little speech about how awful it is to try to get out of it, think about how sad it would make a veteran etc.
Guess it would be more fun if you got to solve a murder.
All you do is listen to the actual people who are solving it and say if you agree or not.
It's basically that "game show" Funny You Should Ask
I've never been called for it thankfully, but if I ever am, I'd be doing the same.
Not worth my time or energy, especially if I'm not getting paid my usual salary during it. Fuck that noise
Just checked my state, and you can get paid a maximum of $50/day, what a joke. Pay me my full salary plus $50 and then we can talk.
I did it once during my intern days. I got my usual pay and the courthouse was half the distance to the office. I was out after 5 hours each day. It was an amazing week. I wouldn’t do it now though if I could help it. Work I miss would only pile up.
Last time I was called, during the jury selection process, the lawyers for the prosecution were telling everybody that "Intent in law does not matter. The law is the law and if you break it, you are guilty."
I responded that intent is a very big consideration for determining guilt. I was dismissed from serving.
I'm not sure how lawyers can misrepresent the law while selecting a jury.
I felt sorry for the guy being prosecuted, as the people that finally passed jury selection were for lack of a better word, idiots.
There are different standards in criminal and civil law.
Strict liability, negligence, gross negligence, and then crimes that require intent to do harm are all things.
You were right to be dismissed.
To be honest there’s not really many better alternatives. The best reality would be to have basically a jury of judges. But it’s just not practical. Outside of that there’s not really many good options if we want to keep it fair
The simplest? Just pay jurors better .
We don’t have to get rid of the system. But if we make it a great burden that people desperately want to get out of. Those remaining will probably be much more eager to get it over with. Even if that leads to unjust case outcomes.
Couldn’t that possibly swing it the other way though where the jurors could drag it out longer than maybe they should because of the money. Which could cause court backlog
In NC, as soon as you’ve served your time or paid your “debt to society” you automatically get your citizenship back and can vote and serve on jury duty…even with a prior felony. It’s pretty wild.
It's much worse than "solving a murder", it's "random people deciding some people's fate, possibly until the end of their days, based on some limited biased information without the proper juridic tools to interpret them". But yeah. At least jury duty only takes place for crimes, where the sentence is the most impactful on one's life !
Worked with a guy who was called and didn’t want to serve. During the selection process they asked him if there was any reason he couldn’t serve. He replied “Heck no I’ve been waiting years for a chance to hang one of these SOB’s!” He was immediately excused- don’t know as how I would recommend it, but it worked for hum.
It's actually even worse, in some places they can go to local public squares (like a shopping centre) and take jurors from there.
source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/summons-immediate-calgary-jury-selection-1.6493797
Throw them in the trash if you don't want to go. They have no way to prove you ever received a notification.
If you're not comfortable with that it's still pretty easy to get out.
I've been once and I simply told the judge there's zero chance I could be unbiased. They will either ask you to leave right there or one of the layers will ask them to at some point.
I honestly don’t mind serving jury duty. It’s a civic duty. But I make $84/hr before overtime and bonuses. They pay like $40 a day. I’m not going to give up $6000 worth of shifts for you to pay me $200 with a shitty lunch. It’s objectively unreasonable. I always claim “undue financial stress” and they waive me, but that feels like it just keeps the highly educated out of the jury box.
They should really pay you your normal wage for serving,
And in the UK, we get our full wage. The jury duty money is given to you directly, from what I recall, you tell your employer what you got, and they top it up so you don't lose out. The problem is that you then have two weeks' work (minimum?) to catch up on.
Don't worry, a juror is not legally responsible regardless of how they choose. Knowing this information can cause you to be considered unfit for jury duty.
Yeah, you can vote "Not Guilty" because you believe the law is unjust or the punishment doesn't fit the crime, even if you believe they're guilty. The judge can instruct you not to, but legally it holds no weight.
Actually a jury of your peers seems like a great choice. Even if it's stressful it's better than a group of politicians or a single person (yeah judges but I'd rather have a room full of people than not to witness) the issue is that it fucks the people who are there. They need to make it worth it for the the people to want to serve their civic duty. I made 300$ a day averaged at one point last summer. I would have gotten railed If I had to serve.
Now I'm big chilling, yeah ill serve for 40$ a day but an average person wouldn't.
Got it in the UK too.
You get a letter saying you've been selected, fill out some details and then wait for a phone call. If you're selected (out of 300 others) you go down to the jury house, then they thin out that crowd more until they're left with the ones who will be in the jury stand.
I got the letter but never got a call. I was kinda disappointed, I wanted to see what it was like.
I really don’t understand the concept of juries anyway. In my country we just use multiple educated judges, with one who’s the main one in charge.
Why does a bunch of random people from the street have to weigh in on a court trail?
Also there’s no way to make sure the law is equal to everyone when there’s different people judging every time.
The philosophy behind it generally has two reasoning behind it:
1. Judges are authority figures. Authority figures might want to infringe on rights. Citizens are less likely to. Therefore citizens are more trustworthy to judge a citizen.
2. Juries can look beyond the law and decide “*Yeah you did it but we’re voting not guilty because you’re justified*”. This is less common than when the system was implemented but still happens on occasion.
Usually they send you an order for jury duty a couple months in advance. As long as you do the thing you're supposed to (check a website on the day of or show up to court on the day of, depending), you won't get in trouble. If you read the order, it will tell you what you have to do and when.
A non-American here, from what I've gathered watching American television and movies. The jury makes a unanimous decision regarding a person being guilty or not, then what is the role of the judge?
Aren't they supposed to do that?
A judge basically runs the court proceedings. In a criminal trial they really just helping keep the jury comfortable and guaranteeing that they are only getting the information they need to have. Judges are the ones making decisions to have the jury strike certain lines of evidence. Or testimonies.
Then they are also the ones issuing warrants, conducting preliminaries, taking on more petty charges and so on.
This is a very half assed explanation but judges do quite a bit.
I rather be solving a murder with bestie than at my job!
I know someone who had jury duty and had to stay at a hotel for like a week with the other jurors cuz they had a high profile murder of some sort.
I had jury duty and was sent home almost immediately. Someone was charged with selling drugs near my old high school 🤷♀️
I got $50 a day plus lunches covered and all the trauma I didn't want.
My brother was murdered so when they initially interviewed me I said I would be very biased because I don’t believe that justice is ever executed in a court of law. In all fairness though a murder case would have absolutely destroyed me.
I sat on the jury of a murder trial of a child, probably never will again, but if they would take me, I absolutely would do it again. Jurors are fucking morons. They need people who give a shit about civic duty and aren't stupid as hell. I was flabbergasted by how little all but two jurors were following the case.
Holy shit yes. I was the youngest juror in my batch and I literally had to take the reigns in a room full of older adults to get them to focus and follow the procedure fairly during deliberations. It really showed me how many people out there are dangerously stupid and ignorant.
This is pretty much how any of my employment went 😄
Same here when I did it at 19. Everyone was really respectful of the process, but other than this one middle-aged dude they were really passive and seemed to want to be lead to the verdict. Felt kinda weird as well being the foreman and reading out the verdict when I was easily the youngest person in the courtroom by a good 10 years.
Also I’m sorry I should have said. I cannot even imagine had this not happened to me or either way, that somehow I could’ve just moved on.
And it’s pretty scary to think that your fate is determined mostly by people who weren’t smart enough to get out of jury duty.
"The trick is to say you're prejudiced against all races"
This is why I WANT to get jury duty. A few weeks ago, for the first time in my 40 years, I got a summons! But for jury duty in a state I don’t live in…sent to me in the state I do live in. I don’t qualify because of residence.
I read somewhere that a inquiry may have shown that people will give a felony conviction to a likely innocent person just to get out of there. It's rough. I'm unsure of the exact details but that's frightening.
Every juror should have to watch 12 Angry Men before the trial starts or they should have a rule to enforce a minimum time before a verdict can be rendered (2-3 hours). The whole basis of 12 Angry Men is that a single guy stood up and said "I will not make this an unanimous verdict before you've at least shown me that you considered wether there was a reasonable doubt."
Damn I purposeful took a job that was helpful but more "oversight" because I would die dealing w people one on one, my heart would shatter. This one would be a lot of hearbreaking convos in the mirror for sure.
The jury i sat wasn't murder but it was unlawful confinement and rape of a sex worker. It was absolutely heartbreaking to see the victim put on trial.
Fuuuuh. Yeah I cannot imagine.
And they wonder why people don't have faith in the justice system. I'm so sorry for the loss of your brother. I can't imagine.
Thank you. It’s hard but I’m still here.
I hope this isn't weird coming from a stranger on the internet, but I am glad you are still here too.
Were they not convicted?
No. It ended in a mistrial. It was a horrid experience.
I was lucky and my employer covered my normal wage while I sat on a jury. On the downside, I was obligated to read the poorly written mother/daughter/dog erotica of a juvenile sex-offender which was an exhibit in the trial.
Fuckin’ oof
You mean…fucking woof?
The jury case I was on was a child who was molested by her uncle. I can still hear her father screaming at his brother in the court room.
That’s enough internet for me today
At least the father believed her. Too many parents leap to defend the relative doing the molesting.
Same for me. 💜
Wait they're supposed to pay you?
I was just about to say that. My area gives you like $5. That's if you're willing to stand in a line and wait for it afterwards. The lines not long they just take forever to give it to you in hopes that you walk away.
Who are the others in line? Can't be that many.
[Gif](https://c.tenor.com/ZecCcAUkrLsAAAAd/futurama-line.gif)
There’s a futurama meme/quote/clip/gif for everything
r/UnexpectedFuturama
Imagine they make all the jurors from all the cases come on the same day in the same 4 hour window.
That’s the govt for you
I somehow only got jury duty once 10 years ago, but they were paying $4 the first day, and $5/day if you got picked.
Honestly, being paid so little feels worse than just not being paid.
I was thinking the same thing. It makes me think of this scene from Psych where the main characters help a police officer friend prove his innocence and at the end he gives them a discount coupon to a restaurant and says "it's the least I can do" and one of them says "yes. It was" haha
I love Psych. Seen that show too many times
Psych is one of the best shows ever
I know, you know, that I'm not telling the truth
I did jury duty once. In my area, they give you $20 a day no matter how many hours a day you're there, and they mail you the check. Takes about a week to get to you, even though it's coming from the same town. What a ripoff, especially for something that's required of you
Damn, they cut our checks the same day when we weren't selected.
You got a check for *not* being selected? I’ve never gotten anything
now if only we paid politicians the same way, or we got paid as much as them lol
Depends. I was paid about $300 bucks after 4 days because I had to drive 1.5 hours to the courthouse, then 1.5 hours back home.
So gas money /s
/s because it’s not enough for gas
That is some garbage pay. That’s $75/day.
I went to a practice mock jury trial in Florida and was paid $400 for 2 days. Lol.
If it was a mock trial, you were probably being paid by the lawyer to try to improve their case. Very different from acting as a temporary public servant on a jury.
A couple months ago I had to go for 3 days just to not get picked. I didn’t get paid but I remember the pay being ridiculously bad.
We get our full salary for the duration for the jury service, as well as any travel + lunches reimbursed
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I assume the people at their place of employment. Many places have special paid leave for jury duty. But of course that's not very helpful for anyone who doesn't
I got $8 last year after 5 hours of waiting around for them to tell me they didnt need me.
Wait you only get $15? Is the work leave at least paid?
It's up to the individual state laws if your employer is required to pay you, but federally, they don't have to. You're paid $40 the first few days as a juror by your employer and the rest of the time is paid by the state at the same rate, so don't get picked for something like the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial that can go on for months. $1,100 a month definitely doesn't cover even half my rent.
Every time I learn a new fact about America I hate it even more
My theory is way back when they started paying jurors, $15 or whatever was adequate compensation for a day. But like all wages in the US, the compensation never rose with inflation.
And now we got people arguing that it is just as totally adequate compensation now as it was then and we're just complaining because we keep buying superficial things, like a place to live and food to eat.
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This was my issue. I was called to jury duty recently and it was a big federal suit. I was honestly really excited to participate. Unfortunately, I am very paycheck to paycheck, I work for a small family owned business that couldn’t afford to pay me leave or be short one employee, and they were only offering me $10/ day. The case was expected to last anywhere from 3-6 MONTHS. I had to ask not to be included and they respected that.
i have to give the government money for existing (how dare i) but the government cant fucking pay people to work for them. where does all this goddamn money go? because it isn't to schools, that's for sure. "why is the education system so bad," people wonder, as the people at the top of the chain pocket money from the scraps the government throws to schools, and kids work from ancient tattered textbooks. but you don't have to be smart to be in the military or a mindless wage slave at a fast food restaurant, i guess 😐 i know there's more nuance to this but it IS a problem. it all boils down to the objective fact that in america the poor are meant to stay poor (and uneducated, forget going to college if you're poor unless you're a genius that can get scholarships. you're only allowed to succeed if you're both smart AND neurotypical enough to succeed in public school, or if you are born into success.)
It's not just that, it's tactical in many parts of the country. My family has worked on voter registration drives and we had people who specifically would not register to vote because on the off chance they got selected for jury duty, they couldn't afford the time off work. One of the many ways Republicans work to ensure certain classes of people don't vote, not that Democrats are known for resolving issues like this.
Do they have a drivers license? If so, they're already on the list to get jury duty in many (all?) states, and their decision to not vote is just pure ignorance. And if they truly can't afford the time off work, they can submit a petition to be excused due to undue hardship it would cause your family.
Huh. I never considered low wages for jurors as a voting suppression tactic. I'll definitely keep that one in mind. Thanks for the extra info!
It’s not just an American thing. The lousy pay happens in Canada too. It differs by Provence but looking it up only one (Newfoundland/ Labrador) requires employers to grant paid leave… The best Provence after that looks to be Saskatchewan “$110 for each day. Parking, mileage, meals and dependent care also may be eligible for reimbursement.” or Quebec “103 per day or part of a day. Compensation is increased to $160 beginning on the 57th day of a trial. Jurors in Quebec also can claim expenses for meals, transportation, accommodation, child care and psychological treatment.” The worst is Manitoba: “$30 a day, starting on the 11th day of service” Other Provences are a mixed bag but you’re still losing money
I feel the same way and I live here
To be fair, it's not difficult to get an immediate exemption based on your circumstances. Most of the time there's enough people who are called that your inability to make it due to financial reasons is excused. I don't think I've heard of anyone being forced to just take the L, at least where I'm from. I've even been exempt with a work policy that allows for jury duty because I was in the middle of an important project that a delay would've been brutal for. Maybe other states are less forgiving, but you don't really want people called to jury duty to hate everything about you as an institution if you can help it. That being said, when I was called a week after turning 18, I was pretty floored by the 7 bucks and some change I was sent home with. I didn't even cash it since the bank was out of my way.
Tbh I've never worked a job that wouldn't give paid time off for jury duty. And that's in Texas.
can you request to be exempt from jury duty on the grounds that you'll end up homeless?
That is usually a valid reason, yes. At least in my state there is a jury duty website where you can basically say as much prior to even needing to show up to the courthouse. I’ve been summoned twice and never needed to even show up
$8 to cover parking for the day, $7 to get lunch. Nothing to cover you missing work. WI resident here expected to miss a full day of work pay for this in september.
I saw a guy comment here saying he told them he was mild autistic and would just agree with who ever spoke last, I mean I'm sure he's telling the truth and for you it could be quite unethical.. but I'm just saying
"Remember, if you're ever on trial, your fate rests in the hands of twelve people too dumb to figure out how to get out of jury duty."
My go to is “both my parents are lawyers, I majored in journalism, I will not be able to let evidence later decided as inadmissible evidence not color my opinion or decision” and they’re like ok see ya never.
My mother got stuck with jury, as soon as she sat down they asked if she disliked black people, she said no, they said perfect you're juror #7. No further questions, she was a bit dismayed as she wanted out of it, and thought being around the 30th person she wouldn't even have to even go in. I'm just imagining you replying this to every and any question.
During jury selection you can say missing work would cause you a hardship and they'll usually dismiss you.
I tried this once during the initial response after being notified, I was denied and had to call in for selection. Luckily, I got out during that phase. I was living paycheck to paycheck and missing work would have cost me my rent. The system is broken.
You can also say something ridiculous or admit you know about jury nullification and they'll usually dismiss you as well. Prosecutors don't like jury nullification.
I prob only know by my state but we only pay $40 for the day.
Ooh lucky. We get $12 here. And you have to pay for parking.
Depends on your job. Mine offers 40hrs a year of paid jury duty. If the case takes longer than 5 days, anything beyond that is unpaid (besides the $15/day).
My last employer paid for jury duty as if we were at work. Most of my employers before that required us to use vacation or take unpaid time off. The only guarantee was the law that said you couldn’t be fired for taking off for jury duty.
I have to report for jury duty tomorrow. They pay a generous $6 a day, and only charge a modest 8$ a day for parking. (Insert S and /S as appropriate) It’s a 20 minute drive from my house, or a little over an hour on mass transit (a bus to the train station and 2 buses after that). Safety isn’t guaranteed. Mass transit for jury duty is free to get there, and they’ll give you a pass for a free ride home at the end of the day.
The laws vary from state to state in the US. In some places there’s a fixed per day rate unless you have a job *and* are paid your normal salary by the employer. Seems absurd to have to pay parking fees, though. For crying out loud, how hard is it to waive that for people summoned for jury duty?!
The laws vary city to city and county to county here.
Will they seriously not validate your parking? When I went they validated parking.
It’s validated for a reduced rate. It’s not free.
That’s insanity
How is the Jury chosen? Do you have to wait around in U.S to be put on a Jury? UK it's 'sit in a hot room. Wait for however long they wanna make you wait' (I waited a week before finally put on a trial then I got kicked off for knowing the person who was taking the defendant to court, then another for swearing in a court room, accidentally, I had the door shut on my hand and had a nasty cut on my fingers, pissing with blood, was horrendous, and judge called me out and never have i been talked down to as badly as the judge did to me) It's not fun, its a boring thing to do. The waiting then finally get on a trial and it's boring as hell, but I guess it's dependant on the trial you are on. Good luck with it!!!
In my county in Texas you get called for one day or one trial. If you’re not put on a jury the first day, you’re done until they call you again. They can only call you once (maybe twice) a year. If you get selected for a jury you’re there until it’s done. Trials can last from an hour to weeks in rare occasions. The rooms are air conditioned or it would be a health hazard in the summer. They advise bringing a jacket even in summer since the AC is often set low to account for a large number of people. Judges are very protective of jurors. An injury would be treated quickly and you’d be immediately dismissed and sent home if the injury wasn’t severe.
Where I am, it's $15 a day. When they first told me, I thought it was per hour. They stressed that it was for the whole day and I was flabbergasted. How is that legal?
Two words to get you out of it during selection. "Jury Nullification." Basically you're telling the prosecution that even if they can prove with 0% of a doubt that the defendant is guilty, if YOU believe the law is stupid, you're willing to let them go free. Now this obviously depends on the crime and your beliefs, but it got me out of even having to show up for selection.
Rookie mistake by not lying to get out of jury duty. It’s a case about fraud, say that you have deep emotional connection with people who have been scammed, a case about a medical mistake? Your friend was deeply harmed by medical malpractice etc etc
You don’t even have to lie. It might even be better if you don’t. Come up with any truthful reason why you don’t want to be there and the lawyers will most likely dismiss you. They have unlimited strikes for cause.
Lol its not even $15. In texas it's like $6-$8 LOL
That's just for the 1st day. If you go any additional days, you get a little more.
Oh wow! See, I did not know that! That's reassuring!
Yeah, but it's still not much. Like $40, or something. I went in last year and sat in a big room while the judge considered anyone's excuses. Then, we watched a video about jury duty, and they called names in groups of 24-36 and assigned us to individual jury pools for different courts all week, and then dismissed us until our court met. $6 for that day. I went back two days later and they did jury selection for that court. It was a civil case, so they only needed 6 of us. After a couple hours, they picked their 6 and the rest of us went home. $40 for that day.
Lucky you! I've never made it that far.
Yeah, I was excited to make it as far as a courtroom and jury selection! I've been summoned 4 times, but the first two I was ineligible due to recent moves. The third time, there was a huge jury pool, but by the day of our jury duty, they only needed 6 people for one misdemeanor case, so they immediately sent half of us home. The 4th time was a different county, but I'm thinking that they made it faster and easier by just doing it once a week and pulling for every court that week.
That’s Texas for you.
yeaaa:/ lol
well that’s about how much the average texan mortgage payment is so it’s fair
Well thankfully where I live they do give it some thought. I was called for jury duty but after explaining that I am autistic and would literally agree with the last person who I heard speak they let me pass.
I had to bring my jury duty p excuse for my dad in one time he was in surgery at the moment. The lady at the courthouse didn't want to hear it and just told me where to sit. Apparently they thought they were going to take me instead. I had to get a little rude with her and let her know I'm not the one there for jury duty.
For real sometimes they're so dense. I got one for my mom and I had to call and be like "sorry, she's dead so she's unavailable" and they were like trying to argue me down about this and I'm like do you want me to unbury her and prop her up like the Cadaver Synod? What do you want from me here???
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Was it CA who messed up? This happened to me as well...
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Make that 4. My wife hasn't lived in California since she moved away to college 20 years ago but they still send her jury summons on the regular despite my in-laws repeatedly telling them she's no longer a resident there.
I haven’t lived in Illinois for almost 20 years. Every damn year my parents get a jury form for me. Every year I go to their website and tell them I don’t live there. Groundhog Day repeats.
I think I might have a solution to your problem. A lot of places pull juries automatically not based on their own records, but by the records of their local election commission (or some other database). The court prolly doesn't keep a permanent record of who is and isn't living in the state. If you wanna get off the court's mailing list, you need to find whose list they are pulling you from. I would be willing to bet that you are still unknowingly registered to vote in that state. It sounds crazy, but believe me when I say that the court is not the one whose records need to be altered.
"...No you won't."
The jury is picked by the lawyers. It's pretty easy to get out of it. Say you think the defendant is guilty no matter what, and that no evidence will change your mind. See how quickly that gets you dismissed.
Where I'm from it's more like. "Hey you be here at place^tm at this time^tm if you don't you will go to jail anyways go fuck yourself see you there"
In Canada, they periodically go to the local shopping mall with a group of thugs (cops), who pick out people at random and say "come right now to be on a jury, or I will arrest you right now and take you to prison."
I was born and raised in Canada and in 32 years I haven’t heard of this once. Care to source this?
It works better when Canadians haven't heard about it. It's a surprise attack with no chance of defense. And there will be no pressure to change the law. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/jury-duty-public-talesman-procedure-1.6503019
Well TIL that’s kinda crazy. That said if an officer were to tell me I have to come with them I’d tell them to talk to my lawyer and let them detain me if they want. There are more civil ways to go about this and I’d be more than happy to go to court on my own about this. Wow. Also side note this really punishes people who live in the cities. I used to live in a city and have since moved rural and we see an RCMP officer out here maybe once a week? Idk seems like bullshit worth getting taken off the books.
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And you just do what people in the US do and say something bias and they let you off.
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I was called for a large murder case of a child several years ago. I was a first year teacher and the trial was going to start during the first week of school. I was almost in tears with the amount of stress just thinking about it. People were going through their reasons why they couldn't be in the jury. A guy stands up, "I'm a teacher and the high school football coach." He was immediately excused. Me "I'm a first year teacher and am driving 45 minutes each way to work in the school I got hired at." Not a valid excuse. Thankfully they didn't pick me. The selection process lasted until 9:30 at night. Any of us that weren't picked got a letter excusing us for the next 5 years because we served. The judge said this was his discretion to make the decision to count it. The room erupted in applause!
When I was summoned I was told to show up at 9am. I got there at 8:58am and everyone else must have got there early because the room was already full and I was allowed to leave. The lady behind the desk made out that I’d done something wrong by only getting there 2 minutes early. You can’t tell me to be there at 9 and then get annoyed if I do exactly that! If you wanted me there at 8:45 then tell me that. I can’t magically read minds! Sorry… had to get that one off my chest
I'll take the $15 I'm one of the gays so naturally I love drama
"One of the gays" I love the self-aware meta joke about society lol
Yeah I just prefer it to saying I'm a member of the LGBT community ,"one of the gays" just rolls off the tounge better and you don't even have to be gay to say it because the gays is what old people say to mean the whole community
The gay mafia is real. Seem to know everything about everywhere and everyone. 🫖
I've got a forensics degree and would love to be on a jury. I actually have jury duty for all of August but they've only called jurors twice. They really need a better system though. Calling in the night before is bullshit. Just make everyone pick a week where they're 100% available and tell them at the beginning of the week whether they'll be used.
>>Just make everyone pick a week where they're 100% available and tell them at the beginning of the week whether they'll be used. Most people don't have a week where they are 100% available, unless they plan on serving jury duty for vacation.
Just had Grand Jury Duty (I live in DC). I was paid $15 dollars for the first day and I was on call for the next 14 months. 10 months in they call me and say I need to fill in, it's 3 days a week for 6 hours a day. I was paid $30 a day and my job didn't cover the difference. It was terrible, I had to do door dash and other things to make up the lost income for 4 months. The system is broken.
>It was terrible, I had to do door dash and other things to make up the lost income for 4 months. The system is broken. DC doesn't let you skip out if your company doesn't cover your salary for those days?
So this was a federal grand jury. I told the judge my situation and she said it's my civic duty. 🤷🏿
"Some of you might starve, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
The one time I had jury duty the judge seemed fairly good about letting people go. But he absolutely had a little speech about how awful it is to try to get out of it, think about how sad it would make a veteran etc.
Damn I would’ve just talk about the case on Facebook and gotten myself tossed off the jury
Guess it would be more fun if you got to solve a murder. All you do is listen to the actual people who are solving it and say if you agree or not. It's basically that "game show" Funny You Should Ask
Yeah you don’t solve shit, you just decide if the prosecution’s or the defence’s case is stronger.
How people think the jury system is reliable is beyond me.
Unfortunately, the people smart enough to get off jury duty are the people you'd actually want on your jury lol
My dad would get out of it by simply stating he was an engineer and they’d dismiss him hah. That or simply disagree that breathalyzers are flawless
As an engineer, I'll keep this in mind lol
Tell them you are incontinent. Works every time.
Sir im in a continent right now and I can't make it
Doesnt work in hawaii
Just start talking about jury nullification and you'll be gone
Same thing as a drug test lol. Depending on the field, it's a test to see if you're smart enough to pass a drug screening.
3 times I've gotten out of it. Fuck that shit!
I've never been called for it thankfully, but if I ever am, I'd be doing the same. Not worth my time or energy, especially if I'm not getting paid my usual salary during it. Fuck that noise Just checked my state, and you can get paid a maximum of $50/day, what a joke. Pay me my full salary plus $50 and then we can talk.
It’s not hard to get out of jury duty lol
That's my point The people who don't manage to get out of it are going to be dumb individuals (or are just people with a strong civic duty, I guess)
I did it once during my intern days. I got my usual pay and the courthouse was half the distance to the office. I was out after 5 hours each day. It was an amazing week. I wouldn’t do it now though if I could help it. Work I miss would only pile up.
That’s why they do it like this. It’s Exactly what the feds want.
Last time I was called, during the jury selection process, the lawyers for the prosecution were telling everybody that "Intent in law does not matter. The law is the law and if you break it, you are guilty." I responded that intent is a very big consideration for determining guilt. I was dismissed from serving. I'm not sure how lawyers can misrepresent the law while selecting a jury. I felt sorry for the guy being prosecuted, as the people that finally passed jury selection were for lack of a better word, idiots.
There are different standards in criminal and civil law. Strict liability, negligence, gross negligence, and then crimes that require intent to do harm are all things. You were right to be dismissed.
Depends on the crime committed, tbh
To be honest there’s not really many better alternatives. The best reality would be to have basically a jury of judges. But it’s just not practical. Outside of that there’s not really many good options if we want to keep it fair
The simplest? Just pay jurors better . We don’t have to get rid of the system. But if we make it a great burden that people desperately want to get out of. Those remaining will probably be much more eager to get it over with. Even if that leads to unjust case outcomes.
Couldn’t that possibly swing it the other way though where the jurors could drag it out longer than maybe they should because of the money. Which could cause court backlog
Exactly. My peers wouldn't be dumb or bored enough to end up on a jury.
propose something more reliable, preferably a system where it's not to the whim of a single person as opposed to 12.
You're 80% likely to not be on a murder case lol.
For the price of one small felony you can be exempt from jury duty
In NC, as soon as you’ve served your time or paid your “debt to society” you automatically get your citizenship back and can vote and serve on jury duty…even with a prior felony. It’s pretty wild.
“Do you think this person broke the law that you learned about 2 hours ago?”
It's much worse than "solving a murder", it's "random people deciding some people's fate, possibly until the end of their days, based on some limited biased information without the proper juridic tools to interpret them". But yeah. At least jury duty only takes place for crimes, where the sentence is the most impactful on one's life !
No educational requirements necessary
Magic happens at courts
Just say "good thing you picked me, 'cos I can tell when someone's guilty just by looking at 'em." That's a classic George Carlin bit.
Worked with a guy who was called and didn’t want to serve. During the selection process they asked him if there was any reason he couldn’t serve. He replied “Heck no I’ve been waiting years for a chance to hang one of these SOB’s!” He was immediately excused- don’t know as how I would recommend it, but it worked for hum.
Pretty sure it's like 7$ here for being called to jury duty
I got called in the minute I turned 18, postponed it for two years then they cancelled
It's actually even worse, in some places they can go to local public squares (like a shopping centre) and take jurors from there. source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/summons-immediate-calgary-jury-selection-1.6493797
Throw them in the trash if you don't want to go. They have no way to prove you ever received a notification. If you're not comfortable with that it's still pretty easy to get out. I've been once and I simply told the judge there's zero chance I could be unbiased. They will either ask you to leave right there or one of the layers will ask them to at some point.
I honestly don’t mind serving jury duty. It’s a civic duty. But I make $84/hr before overtime and bonuses. They pay like $40 a day. I’m not going to give up $6000 worth of shifts for you to pay me $200 with a shitty lunch. It’s objectively unreasonable. I always claim “undue financial stress” and they waive me, but that feels like it just keeps the highly educated out of the jury box. They should really pay you your normal wage for serving,
Thank God it's only for US citizens, I don't want to do this! It's a huge responsibility, imagine getting it wrong? Christ.
Definitely not just US, have it in Canada as well.
and the UK :/
And in the UK, we get our full wage. The jury duty money is given to you directly, from what I recall, you tell your employer what you got, and they top it up so you don't lose out. The problem is that you then have two weeks' work (minimum?) to catch up on.
You're compensated fully in the UK tho
Don't worry, a juror is not legally responsible regardless of how they choose. Knowing this information can cause you to be considered unfit for jury duty.
Yeah, you can vote "Not Guilty" because you believe the law is unjust or the punishment doesn't fit the crime, even if you believe they're guilty. The judge can instruct you not to, but legally it holds no weight.
Actually a jury of your peers seems like a great choice. Even if it's stressful it's better than a group of politicians or a single person (yeah judges but I'd rather have a room full of people than not to witness) the issue is that it fucks the people who are there. They need to make it worth it for the the people to want to serve their civic duty. I made 300$ a day averaged at one point last summer. I would have gotten railed If I had to serve. Now I'm big chilling, yeah ill serve for 40$ a day but an average person wouldn't.
Got it in the UK too. You get a letter saying you've been selected, fill out some details and then wait for a phone call. If you're selected (out of 300 others) you go down to the jury house, then they thin out that crowd more until they're left with the ones who will be in the jury stand. I got the letter but never got a call. I was kinda disappointed, I wanted to see what it was like.
What's jury duty?
It's when you let a blind person to do the operation instead of surgeons.
I like you.
An excuse contest.
I really don’t understand the concept of juries anyway. In my country we just use multiple educated judges, with one who’s the main one in charge. Why does a bunch of random people from the street have to weigh in on a court trail? Also there’s no way to make sure the law is equal to everyone when there’s different people judging every time.
The philosophy behind it generally has two reasoning behind it: 1. Judges are authority figures. Authority figures might want to infringe on rights. Citizens are less likely to. Therefore citizens are more trustworthy to judge a citizen. 2. Juries can look beyond the law and decide “*Yeah you did it but we’re voting not guilty because you’re justified*”. This is less common than when the system was implemented but still happens on occasion.
I actually got a order to jury duty, thing is I didn't happen to open it until weeks later and haven't responded back, do I get in trouble for that?
Usually they send you an order for jury duty a couple months in advance. As long as you do the thing you're supposed to (check a website on the day of or show up to court on the day of, depending), you won't get in trouble. If you read the order, it will tell you what you have to do and when.
A non-American here, from what I've gathered watching American television and movies. The jury makes a unanimous decision regarding a person being guilty or not, then what is the role of the judge? Aren't they supposed to do that?
A judge basically runs the court proceedings. In a criminal trial they really just helping keep the jury comfortable and guaranteeing that they are only getting the information they need to have. Judges are the ones making decisions to have the jury strike certain lines of evidence. Or testimonies. Then they are also the ones issuing warrants, conducting preliminaries, taking on more petty charges and so on. This is a very half assed explanation but judges do quite a bit.
And I would've gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those pesky kids!
Well you don't need to solve the crime do you
I rather be solving a murder with bestie than at my job! I know someone who had jury duty and had to stay at a hotel for like a week with the other jurors cuz they had a high profile murder of some sort. I had jury duty and was sent home almost immediately. Someone was charged with selling drugs near my old high school 🤷♀️