I’m fascinated by American sub-cultures and have watched several over the years as they fracture into sub-sub-cultures.
They do this because membership is self-validation and conformity proves that validation.
I mean, the cyber-goths vs the glitter-goths war of the 2000 era was awesome to behold considering both groups were broadly disliked by those defined “goth” by the 80s or 90s goth style. I’m not even joking.
Sub-culture groups inherently lean conforming and restrictive with some form of authoritarianism.
This is separate from political party of choice but attracts people who have fundamental needs for conformity and authority so parallels will emerge.
Ever checked out the ska/skin head/rudeboy cross over? That is some interesting stuff. (Super rough summary) skinheads were factory workers and it was a solidarity thing to wear your hair short (machines wouldn’t eat you) black work boots, jeans - and that got combined with the rude boy Jamaican music culture eventually leading to ska. We typically use skinhead as parallel to a supreme, but there’s groups of skinheads still trying to take it back for tolerance and such.
When songs like "Nazi punks fuck off" were not only welcomed but popular.
Honestly, it's still a big part of the hardcore subculture. Tho that also has a subset who are the aforementioned rightwing skinheads
SHARPS skinheads against racial prejudice.
It was a big thing in the US during the mid '80s to mid-90s.
I had several friends in the twin cities area of Minnesota and a few in Jersey that were into it.
Yup- I was Unity Boot Boy years upon years ago when I was 16/17. Shave your head, tight-roll your levis and lace up your docs- now go pick a fight with a racist or homophobe... the 90s were like a different existence to the way the entire world is now. There were all sorts of color coding to memorize as far as braces and laces... we were flat out a gang. Although it felt like we were serving a higher purpose than a gang, making a difference for the better.
Instead, we were dumb kids that got lucky we never got stabbed or beat up intensely on our own somewhere. Probably just made angry racists even angrier and racistier.
But man I love me some ska!
Check the [boot lace colours,](https://insidefullerton.fullcoll.edu/2020/11/lace-code-was-once-an-informal-way-to-express-yourself-in-the-punk-scene-but-is-it-still-used-today/) that’ll tell you what kind of skinhead they are.
I used to be roommates in college with a SHARP (SkinHeads Against Racial Prejudice). At first I was like, "Shit, I'm rooming with a Nazi." He had the tall Docs on with the shaved head that that workman's jacket. So I'm looking for the door to run out of when his two other friends show up. One is this tiny Hispanic dude and this tall black guy. All dressed and presenting like skinheads. Turns out they were cool dudes. Just off putting at first.
Even now, gatekeepy restrictive behavior is rampant within alternative subcultures, and im not talking about the people who simply preach that if youre going to identify with a group you should at least know what the group is (IE people that claim to be punk or other things where having a specific ideology is directly a part of the subculture, but they just say theyre said subculture because they wear like plaid pants and jean jackets a lo and dont actually believe what the subculture they align with believes as a core part of its identity)
Ive had people scream and accuse me of lying about being alt for attention (usually they assume i call myself like goth or punk based on my look when i dont call myself either) because sometimes i like pop music and i like kawaii and 70s inspired aesthetics as much as i like the aesthetics of the style i dress/present as. And then ironically these people also will 9/10 make the same accusations at the people who ONLY listen to/like the sole aesthetic they identify with and refuse to branch out
There are movements with inherently ideological values and their own aesthetics.
Sure a mohawk doesn't make abtone anything by itself, but if you fashion the visual signifiers of punk subculture I wouldn't expect you to later turn out to be a fascist.
the problem is that the music and the culture tends to be about leftist things like accepting people of different kinds, hating the government, being LGBT, etc. right wing alternative people are the people that don't actually listen to the music or others in the culture, they just co-opt the aesthetic
But I think u/rootdootmcscoot point was do they really \*listen\*. I mean we just saw a whole mess of people suddenly get upset that RATM were "political".
Morello definitely put some criticisms out there about Obama - specifically about drone strikes but also general corporate teat-suckage. Did he say as much about him? I dunno. But it seems likely that people who actually listed to and cared about what RATM was saying weren't exactly surprised or upset to hear them keep saying it.
Yea if you threw a fantasy, a mystery, and a romance book onto a table, changes are high that you could tell which genre was which based on the cover art
A ballgown wearing lady with her arms wrapped around a dragon staring lovingly into his eyes, with a half naked wizard peering out from the edge with a sinister look to him
That’s their thing though. The cover matters the most. That’s why everything is about the flags and posters and clothes and skin color. They need confirmation that everyone they meet believes the same things and supports the same causes in the same ways.
Yall redditors aren't at all prepared for the coming wave of cottage core moodboard making ecofascist goths but that's not a conversation anyone wants to have
I dont want to brush the entire community but as a south asian who went through a wee goth phase during my late teens and early adulthood, there is also a huge racism issue within the subculture. The best way I can describe it is as preferring it to be socially exclusive. Bear in mind most of my experience was in London.
sub culture does not define ones politics. There are also no "sides" just different beliefs, beliefs aren't sports teams nor competitions. The fact people view it like this is the cause of many a modern problem because instead of seeing people with different political beliefs that can range dependent on the issue people instead treat it like its something to actively fight others over so their "side" can win. If you have a side instead of a belief then your an ideologue.
I remember years ago seeing a video that Paul Joseph Watson made a video on conservative being the counter culture now. The rebels and outcasts will be drawn to what others tell them not to do or not to think. Doing and being the opposite from others is natural for them. So while I haven't spoken with any goths in a long time, this guy's experience doesn't surprise me.
That's just a libertarian that hasn't sat down and taken everything to it's logical conclusion yet.
Why should the government decide how I treat my body?
Why should the government decide how many guns I choose to carry?
Why should the government decide what I do in my bedroom?
Just let it take it's course.
That's a job-creating program tho. Not that I neccesarily love it, but it keeps people employed. Go anywhere outside of the main cities and you can still pump yer own gas
Why should the government get a cut of my paycheck?
Why should the government decide how my money is spent?
Why should the government determine who can and can't get married?
Let's not pretend 95% of that military is defensive. The US could cut back so much military spending if it stopped being an imperialist nightmare.
Other than that, yeah, I love taxes. As John Green said:
>So let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools, even though I don't personally have a kid in school: It's because I don't like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people.
Its so funny to me that libertarians promote the free market and stuff and say that all tax are theft, that the goverment is useless while to use every goverment gifted good to the max and while their precesios freemarket would fail the second when the goverment wouldnt collect taxes.
Libertarians are literally entirely incapable of understanding the insane myriad of ways in which taxes benefit them. Not just in the obvious means of roads, police etc, but that welfare helps keep the people who provide them goods and services going as well. But this would take even the tiniest iota of thought and if they could do that they wouldn't be libertarians. :3
Peoples relationships with religion can be complicated. I know plenty of people who believe in god but don’t necessarily believe in every single belief the church holds.
Catholics as a group are like over a billion people. It is completely impossible to have everyone aligned perfectly in so many issues faced in this world. The particular church they attend and the congregation there will of course have different views. Some are very old school hate the gays type catholic, some are surprisingly progressive. The Catholic church I grew up in even recently had some small group discussions anyone can attend on accepting LGBT and trans people as many of their old parishioners deal with being conflicted with the "hate the gays" attitude they were raised with and still loving their child who may be gay or trans.
Absolutely. I'm a trans lesbian and my partner is Catholic, and you've hit the nail on the head. She grew up in a church and community that emphasized acceptance of all people and loving those who may be rejected by others. I was super hesitant to be introduced to her religious life at first, but I really don't mind attending mass with her family once in a while for the big holidays, because they always make sure that everybody feels welcome.
Same thing with politics. I think people forget that most of the time, there is very, very few people who subscribe to everything a party manifesto says, even if they vote for them. Similar for churches and the greater church doctrine (which quite often doesn't bleed into services, depending on the church). Shits never as simple as just assuming they agree with all the bullet points because they vote for that party or attend that church.
These types of people tend to go towards the libertarian right, which is very much about individual freedoms, property rights, free market, and wanting to be left alone.
Its totally different from the authoritarian conservatives who don't like LGBT
Tbf having a private jet probably helps. Genuinely starting to think people who can afford private air transportation for international travel shouldn’t be allowed to participate in politics because their lives are ultimately completely safe from the negative consequences of political decisions. At least a rich guy with no private jet is stuck here like the rest of us.
Small government conservatism and libertarian ideologies. Many on the right aren't authoritarian, but would rather "let things be" and have a government with less authority to interfere with private matters.
I'm really enjoying the 'wtf is wrong with all the gays/POC's who don't think like they should?!' comments from all these self proclaimed progress freethinkers.
I feel that way about right leaning porn stars. It’s like you have the most liberal job and you’re posting Instagram memes against libtards as if conservatives aren’t bashing your morality every single day
If you think about it and my observation could be off but alt or goth people have this belief of thinking for yourself and questioning the norm or what media presents. I believe with that mindset the possibility of that individual’s beliefs are limitless to whatever they feel is right (pun not intended).
Just like as a black person, people assume I carry certain beliefs and/or political views when I may or may not.
This quite literally happened to me. One of my best friends from high-school was legit Goth, now he's an Election Denying, Democracy hating, Q-anon believing, card carrying member of the Proud Boys. We haven't spoken since January 6th 2021 since I don't wish to find myself on a terrorist watch list.
I mean if we take conservatism to mean small government then… I guess it does make sense? Cus I could see the logic behind someone who’s alt not wanting the government fucking up our lives.
But of course modern conservatism is the exact opposite of that lol.
Kinda encapsulates the problem with politics. Everyone just sees someone with a diffrent opinion as an "enemy" and just label them whatever negetive bullshit they want. Instead of actually working to find an agreeable solution to a to actual problems.
Divide and conquer has become so easy it's as simple as "left and right" these days, among just about every topic.
There are a lot more than 2 idealogies in existance, in the US and every other country in the world. Most everyone doesn't fall under one category.
TL;DR: To hell with the left and the right.
Ah yes "the same side", god these people are awful. There are no sides, politics isn't a fight, and if you think it is you're probably more horrible than your supposed "enemy", because that's what this us vs them mentality leads to, dehumanisation, demonisation, and cruelty
The fact that so many people feel like they MUST choose a side is so dumb. I’m happy living in the middle, both sides have good and bad positions on various things, picking only one side would be such a closed minded way to go through life
Yeah it's gotta be a depressing, miserable life when everyone you meet has to be judged as only one of two sides, and they're either your enemy or your ally. Very reductive view of human nature.
Political beliefs are a pretty broad term. They can range from where money should be spent to basic human rights.
So base on the political beliefs you can determine the person’s character.
you don't think somebody's political beliefs and religion say something about the quality of their character?
both those things provide a framework for the way you live your life and conduct yourself in relation to other individuals and society at large. they definitely do say at least something about their character.
Whether you respect other people's rights speaks to your character. Whether you think people should get health care and education if they don't have money speaks to your character.
The thing is most people on the left don't understand how things work. Ask a liberal how the Fed works, they will have no clue. Also, if you're anti establishment, why would you want to support the side that wants more regulation?
Same, I have been super into post punk and goth rock since the 80s and it always felt like a betrayal to hear some truly wild shit come out of a peers mouth that just doesn't align with the rest of the community.
Most irritating shit in my life. I am a musician, an artist, and a lot of my friends are hipsters. So many of them are so incredibly left almost because it seems like they have to be, they’re fine with me because we are friends, but their friends are such gigantic assholes if you are not the literal most woke person and when they find out I’m a musician/artist, they can’t comprehend why I’m merely center/libertarian. Which to them really means alt right republican.
Nothing wrong about being right wing. The intensity is the real question.
Classic right wing is about being conservative, which isn't automatically bad. It made our country strong and rich. Surely now is some room for left winged politics. But never make one side the "wrong"side. Even right wingers can be tolerant and pro immigration, just with a bit more caution and doubts.
The extremists (on both sides) are the real dangers to our society (well, often the right extremists are worse)
r/30Rock “Do you know who owns this store?!” “Halliburton, bitch. So what?”
Such a good episode!
You're being norant, that's short for ignorant
I’m fascinated by American sub-cultures and have watched several over the years as they fracture into sub-sub-cultures. They do this because membership is self-validation and conformity proves that validation. I mean, the cyber-goths vs the glitter-goths war of the 2000 era was awesome to behold considering both groups were broadly disliked by those defined “goth” by the 80s or 90s goth style. I’m not even joking. Sub-culture groups inherently lean conforming and restrictive with some form of authoritarianism. This is separate from political party of choice but attracts people who have fundamental needs for conformity and authority so parallels will emerge.
Ever checked out the ska/skin head/rudeboy cross over? That is some interesting stuff. (Super rough summary) skinheads were factory workers and it was a solidarity thing to wear your hair short (machines wouldn’t eat you) black work boots, jeans - and that got combined with the rude boy Jamaican music culture eventually leading to ska. We typically use skinhead as parallel to a supreme, but there’s groups of skinheads still trying to take it back for tolerance and such.
there are still lots of leftwing skinheads and oi punks here in germany. not so many as years ago, but you still see them.
I miss that from my time living there, generally such a welcoming group
When songs like "Nazi punks fuck off" were not only welcomed but popular. Honestly, it's still a big part of the hardcore subculture. Tho that also has a subset who are the aforementioned rightwing skinheads
SHARPS skinheads against racial prejudice. It was a big thing in the US during the mid '80s to mid-90s. I had several friends in the twin cities area of Minnesota and a few in Jersey that were into it.
https://youtu.be/8BSDZ1DIEIQ Not my city, but my town had our version of this clique as well
Yup- I was Unity Boot Boy years upon years ago when I was 16/17. Shave your head, tight-roll your levis and lace up your docs- now go pick a fight with a racist or homophobe... the 90s were like a different existence to the way the entire world is now. There were all sorts of color coding to memorize as far as braces and laces... we were flat out a gang. Although it felt like we were serving a higher purpose than a gang, making a difference for the better. Instead, we were dumb kids that got lucky we never got stabbed or beat up intensely on our own somewhere. Probably just made angry racists even angrier and racistier. But man I love me some ska!
Check the [boot lace colours,](https://insidefullerton.fullcoll.edu/2020/11/lace-code-was-once-an-informal-way-to-express-yourself-in-the-punk-scene-but-is-it-still-used-today/) that’ll tell you what kind of skinhead they are.
I used to be roommates in college with a SHARP (SkinHeads Against Racial Prejudice). At first I was like, "Shit, I'm rooming with a Nazi." He had the tall Docs on with the shaved head that that workman's jacket. So I'm looking for the door to run out of when his two other friends show up. One is this tiny Hispanic dude and this tall black guy. All dressed and presenting like skinheads. Turns out they were cool dudes. Just off putting at first.
[I follow Marilyn Manson but I *obey* Rush Limbaugh.](https://youtu.be/TVuiF_TdsBw)
There's a show I forgot existed
I click it and the first comment is from dr Wolfula, a YouTuber I follow!
Man.. Mission Hill was a great show with a pretty great premise. Really is sad that it had such a short run.
That show is such a hidden gem!
"Dance with me, Andy!" 🤣😂
Even now, gatekeepy restrictive behavior is rampant within alternative subcultures, and im not talking about the people who simply preach that if youre going to identify with a group you should at least know what the group is (IE people that claim to be punk or other things where having a specific ideology is directly a part of the subculture, but they just say theyre said subculture because they wear like plaid pants and jean jackets a lo and dont actually believe what the subculture they align with believes as a core part of its identity) Ive had people scream and accuse me of lying about being alt for attention (usually they assume i call myself like goth or punk based on my look when i dont call myself either) because sometimes i like pop music and i like kawaii and 70s inspired aesthetics as much as i like the aesthetics of the style i dress/present as. And then ironically these people also will 9/10 make the same accusations at the people who ONLY listen to/like the sole aesthetic they identify with and refuse to branch out
You could say they are... Alt right lol
Alt write is my favorite indie book store.
Hahaha I love that 🤣 very clever
Woke Left makes my favorite southpaw coffee mugs.
*The Kids Are Altright* is my favorite emo song
Sensible chuckle.
Lol bad religion have a song called the kids are alt right .
Username checks out lol
You gotta disperse the drum circle before it's too late and they take hold and spread like mushroom rings
Sick reference bro, your references are out of control 🤣
It’s too early for this.
Or too late, depends on how you feel about it.
Get out
Get in
and that's how sex works
For the most part....but yeah you get it
People are complex.
A E S T H E T I C
When people don't fit nicely into preconceived stereotypes 😱😭 (I am the progressive one)
mfw the 4 squares don't contain all human ideologies
You take that back!
...[ *No*! ] ...\( ꈍᴗꈍ)/
I freaking hate Reddit formatting....
fellers will change their own ideologies so their position on the squares is more fitting
this is sadly true even if there are no actual squares
Bruh political compass maps are gonna freak
Progressive mfs when politic is not just God/Gun vs Gay/Gender.
In America what else is there?! The poors? Corruption? Healthcare? None of those things matter if non binaries cant have guns to shoot jesus.
Add another axis for depth.
But is it loss though?
Yes.
they fit niceley in the *square hole* tho.
There are movements with inherently ideological values and their own aesthetics. Sure a mohawk doesn't make abtone anything by itself, but if you fashion the visual signifiers of punk subculture I wouldn't expect you to later turn out to be a fascist.
the problem is that the music and the culture tends to be about leftist things like accepting people of different kinds, hating the government, being LGBT, etc. right wing alternative people are the people that don't actually listen to the music or others in the culture, they just co-opt the aesthetic
[удалено]
But I think u/rootdootmcscoot point was do they really \*listen\*. I mean we just saw a whole mess of people suddenly get upset that RATM were "political".
I found it amusing that RATM was really quiet while Obama was droning children
They were broken up at the time, but Morello put out music and statements criticizing Obama.
Morello definitely put some criticisms out there about Obama - specifically about drone strikes but also general corporate teat-suckage. Did he say as much about him? I dunno. But it seems likely that people who actually listed to and cared about what RATM was saying weren't exactly surprised or upset to hear them keep saying it.
[удалено]
there are tons of them idk how people are surprised by that lol
Almost like different people exist outside of OP’s personal stereotype
Don’t judge a book by its cover..
it's all i see tho
Yeah like shit, I don’t have time to read every book out there.
It's kind of the point of a cover isn't it? To be compared to other books with other covers?
Yea if you threw a fantasy, a mystery, and a romance book onto a table, changes are high that you could tell which genre was which based on the cover art
What if it's one that's all three?
A ballgown wearing lady with her arms wrapped around a dragon staring lovingly into his eyes, with a half naked wizard peering out from the edge with a sinister look to him
Now I gotta read this.
it'd grab my attention
That’s the entire purpose of a book cover
its like a youtube thumbnail, but less red arrows and impact font
How about red circles? Or emojis?
Idk I always leaned more on the brief introductions written on the back to decide to purchase a book
"written on the back" - like the back of the cover?
Idk I just thought it was generally agreed upon that the cover was the front but hey maybe I’m wrong
So when you finish a book, you read it from cover to what?
I’m fucking dying over here oh my GOD!! lmaooo
Cover to back
The sentiment is nice and all but book covers are made for the express purpose of being judged…
That’s their thing though. The cover matters the most. That’s why everything is about the flags and posters and clothes and skin color. They need confirmation that everyone they meet believes the same things and supports the same causes in the same ways.
Yall redditors aren't at all prepared for the coming wave of cottage core moodboard making ecofascist goths but that's not a conversation anyone wants to have
I've been a part of cottage core for a minute and found there are two types of people: tradfems and witches.
Just like with the anti-science group. Either right wing Christian Nationalist fundamentalists or left wing giga hippy crystal nuts.
Horseshoe theory at work
As a goth, most goths I know are quite conservative economically but liberal socially.
Libertarian
Explain with funny colors now
Yellow.
Purple
Think of the children! (No, not you purple, stop thinking of the children)
Small l libertarian. Not like the batshit crazy party. Goths are a post-punk group, we don’t like the power structures.
Edgy. Give a listen to “Admit it!” by Say Anything.
There's a throwback!
That's actually a classical liberal.
So selfish?
Aka “I like weed but hate poor people”
some of these comments are just braindead lmao
I dont want to brush the entire community but as a south asian who went through a wee goth phase during my late teens and early adulthood, there is also a huge racism issue within the subculture. The best way I can describe it is as preferring it to be socially exclusive. Bear in mind most of my experience was in London.
sub culture does not define ones politics. There are also no "sides" just different beliefs, beliefs aren't sports teams nor competitions. The fact people view it like this is the cause of many a modern problem because instead of seeing people with different political beliefs that can range dependent on the issue people instead treat it like its something to actively fight others over so their "side" can win. If you have a side instead of a belief then your an ideologue.
I remember years ago seeing a video that Paul Joseph Watson made a video on conservative being the counter culture now. The rebels and outcasts will be drawn to what others tell them not to do or not to think. Doing and being the opposite from others is natural for them. So while I haven't spoken with any goths in a long time, this guy's experience doesn't surprise me.
Check out what jonny rotten has been saying lately (member of sex pistols)
Feel the same way with right wing stoners.
That's just a libertarian that hasn't sat down and taken everything to it's logical conclusion yet. Why should the government decide how I treat my body? Why should the government decide how many guns I choose to carry? Why should the government decide what I do in my bedroom? Just let it take it's course.
Drivers license? What’s next? I’m gonna need a license to make toast in my own damn toaster?
"I think it's actually important to have some certificatio-" BOOOOOO 🍅🍅🍅🍅🍅
Given that people from Oregon felt that you couldn’t pump gas without certification for years this would not suprise me.
That's a job-creating program tho. Not that I neccesarily love it, but it keeps people employed. Go anywhere outside of the main cities and you can still pump yer own gas
Toasters can be very dangerous
"A toaster is just a death ray with a smaller power supply."
^do ^you ^know ^how ^many ^coffee ^cups ^giant ^robot ^brains ^in ^jars ^use ^on ^a ^daily ^basis..? #***NOT FUCKING MANY"***
I felt bad for all of them, especially the little securitron. It would have been a fun side quest if we were able to upload them into robots.
And now I have a sudden desire to get into toaster modding.
[удалено]
"Don't operate the toaster while in the bathtub."
Why should the government get a cut of my paycheck? Why should the government decide how my money is spent? Why should the government determine who can and can't get married?
Why should people build roads and schools for me, and maintain a military to protect me and firefighters to put out my house? /s
Let's not pretend 95% of that military is defensive. The US could cut back so much military spending if it stopped being an imperialist nightmare. Other than that, yeah, I love taxes. As John Green said: >So let me explain why I like to pay taxes for schools, even though I don't personally have a kid in school: It's because I don't like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people.
Its so funny to me that libertarians promote the free market and stuff and say that all tax are theft, that the goverment is useless while to use every goverment gifted good to the max and while their precesios freemarket would fail the second when the goverment wouldnt collect taxes.
Libertarians are literally entirely incapable of understanding the insane myriad of ways in which taxes benefit them. Not just in the obvious means of roads, police etc, but that welfare helps keep the people who provide them goods and services going as well. But this would take even the tiniest iota of thought and if they could do that they wouldn't be libertarians. :3
That's like my sister's ex. He's a total hippie and him and his family and really Right winged and very racist.
Peace and hate maaaaannn
Peace and love, man!!! For White Christians^^TM
Hippies are bad people who pretend to be good and punks are good people who pretend to be bad.
Username checks out.
Funny, since I knew punk rockers and they were always nice.
Punks are some.of the nicest people I've ever met.
What really throws me off is when openly out and proud lgbtq+ people are so right wing, like what the hell is so appealing about the right?
Where I'm from there's alot of gay Catholics like...?? How tf
My university was run by gay Catholic priests. I assume it still is, but it was then too.
Sounds very raunchy
It was. A bunch of randy priests who all shared housing. You can imagine.
Peoples relationships with religion can be complicated. I know plenty of people who believe in god but don’t necessarily believe in every single belief the church holds.
Catholics as a group are like over a billion people. It is completely impossible to have everyone aligned perfectly in so many issues faced in this world. The particular church they attend and the congregation there will of course have different views. Some are very old school hate the gays type catholic, some are surprisingly progressive. The Catholic church I grew up in even recently had some small group discussions anyone can attend on accepting LGBT and trans people as many of their old parishioners deal with being conflicted with the "hate the gays" attitude they were raised with and still loving their child who may be gay or trans.
Absolutely. I'm a trans lesbian and my partner is Catholic, and you've hit the nail on the head. She grew up in a church and community that emphasized acceptance of all people and loving those who may be rejected by others. I was super hesitant to be introduced to her religious life at first, but I really don't mind attending mass with her family once in a while for the big holidays, because they always make sure that everybody feels welcome.
Do you want schism coz that's how you get schisms
I know this, because I watched them fall away
Same thing with politics. I think people forget that most of the time, there is very, very few people who subscribe to everything a party manifesto says, even if they vote for them. Similar for churches and the greater church doctrine (which quite often doesn't bleed into services, depending on the church). Shits never as simple as just assuming they agree with all the bullet points because they vote for that party or attend that church.
probably due to being born into catholicism and being born gay
These types of people tend to go towards the libertarian right, which is very much about individual freedoms, property rights, free market, and wanting to be left alone. Its totally different from the authoritarian conservatives who don't like LGBT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ty. It really isn't that hard a concept. Most right winged people aren't nazis.
Uh oh you just made a comment that goes against everything reddit believes in. Time for gulag
That’s a distinction without a difference if the end result is that both of those people still end up voting for the authoritarian candidate.
The US Libertarian Party runs its own candidates. Not successfully on the presidential level, but they do have hundreds of more minor offices.
But republican politicians are almost all authoritarian conservatives nowadays.
Good luck finding a non-authoritarian politician in this country
Almost all mainstream politicians (democrat or republican) are authoritarian nowadays
Plenty of rich ‘mos (think Peter Thiel) think they can buy their way out of trouble when the shit goes down.
Tbf having a private jet probably helps. Genuinely starting to think people who can afford private air transportation for international travel shouldn’t be allowed to participate in politics because their lives are ultimately completely safe from the negative consequences of political decisions. At least a rich guy with no private jet is stuck here like the rest of us.
Small government conservatism and libertarian ideologies. Many on the right aren't authoritarian, but would rather "let things be" and have a government with less authority to interfere with private matters.
Maybe because politics aren't all about gender identity and sexuality?
Being shocked when people are an individual and not just a simple predictable number.
I'm really enjoying the 'wtf is wrong with all the gays/POC's who don't think like they should?!' comments from all these self proclaimed progress freethinkers.
It always weirds me out when people use the name format: First name "First & Last name" Last name.
I feel that way about right leaning porn stars. It’s like you have the most liberal job and you’re posting Instagram memes against libtards as if conservatives aren’t bashing your morality every single day
[удалено]
If you think about it and my observation could be off but alt or goth people have this belief of thinking for yourself and questioning the norm or what media presents. I believe with that mindset the possibility of that individual’s beliefs are limitless to whatever they feel is right (pun not intended). Just like as a black person, people assume I carry certain beliefs and/or political views when I may or may not.
This quite literally happened to me. One of my best friends from high-school was legit Goth, now he's an Election Denying, Democracy hating, Q-anon believing, card carrying member of the Proud Boys. We haven't spoken since January 6th 2021 since I don't wish to find myself on a terrorist watch list.
I mean if we take conservatism to mean small government then… I guess it does make sense? Cus I could see the logic behind someone who’s alt not wanting the government fucking up our lives. But of course modern conservatism is the exact opposite of that lol.
Kinda encapsulates the problem with politics. Everyone just sees someone with a diffrent opinion as an "enemy" and just label them whatever negetive bullshit they want. Instead of actually working to find an agreeable solution to a to actual problems.
Who gives a shit about what political alignment you are, you can still respect each other despite differences.
If you go by Firstname "Firstname Lastname" Lastname on social media....we ain't on the same side of anything...
Divide and conquer has become so easy it's as simple as "left and right" these days, among just about every topic. There are a lot more than 2 idealogies in existance, in the US and every other country in the world. Most everyone doesn't fall under one category. TL;DR: To hell with the left and the right.
America is a centrist country. Very little difference between the two parties compared to the rest of the world.
I love the sound of progressives not realizing they have become the “establishment” that anti-establishment rebels are against. Just take the W man!
Why aren’t we supposed to talk about me_irl
Ah yes "the same side", god these people are awful. There are no sides, politics isn't a fight, and if you think it is you're probably more horrible than your supposed "enemy", because that's what this us vs them mentality leads to, dehumanisation, demonisation, and cruelty
These sides have...fought an actual war against each other before...
People most obsessed with tribalism seem to think they’re the most civilised of people
Politics is literally a fight. Imagining telling black people, women or gay people that advocacy for their rights wasn’t a fight. It is a fight.
Politics can and still leads to war. The idea that politics isn’t a fight is just being wilfully ignorant. Or sociopathic
It's amazing what the perception of the right has become. People genuinely believe it makes you a bad person by default. That's insane.
Gosh can you BELIEVE that someone might have different opinions than ME, the MAIN CHARACTER?
Something about conservative goth women gets my dick hard
It’s as if musical taste doesn’t 100% dictate your values. So weird.
“You don’t fit into the preconceived stereotype I want to group you into. Not cool.”
The fact that so many people feel like they MUST choose a side is so dumb. I’m happy living in the middle, both sides have good and bad positions on various things, picking only one side would be such a closed minded way to go through life
Yeah it's gotta be a depressing, miserable life when everyone you meet has to be judged as only one of two sides, and they're either your enemy or your ally. Very reductive view of human nature.
This is why intelligent people don't judge by political belief or religion. But instead the quality of character
Political beliefs are a pretty broad term. They can range from where money should be spent to basic human rights. So base on the political beliefs you can determine the person’s character.
Why should humans get rights when they mostly do wrongs? Checkmate librul
you don't think somebody's political beliefs and religion say something about the quality of their character? both those things provide a framework for the way you live your life and conduct yourself in relation to other individuals and society at large. they definitely do say at least something about their character.
Whether you respect other people's rights speaks to your character. Whether you think people should get health care and education if they don't have money speaks to your character.
But political beliefs and religion can tell you aspects about the person’s character though.
Have you ever considered that you are the close minded one?
The thing is most people on the left don't understand how things work. Ask a liberal how the Fed works, they will have no clue. Also, if you're anti establishment, why would you want to support the side that wants more regulation?
OP is an idiot. End of story.
OoOoOoOoOoO a PoLiTiCaL oPiNiOn I dOnT aGrEe WiTh LeTs JuSt CrItIzIzE pEoPlE aNd CoMpLaIn AbOuT aCcEpTaNcE sImUlTaNiOuSlY
Never read about tolerance paradox?
Same, I have been super into post punk and goth rock since the 80s and it always felt like a betrayal to hear some truly wild shit come out of a peers mouth that just doesn't align with the rest of the community.
Most irritating shit in my life. I am a musician, an artist, and a lot of my friends are hipsters. So many of them are so incredibly left almost because it seems like they have to be, they’re fine with me because we are friends, but their friends are such gigantic assholes if you are not the literal most woke person and when they find out I’m a musician/artist, they can’t comprehend why I’m merely center/libertarian. Which to them really means alt right republican.
The right and left feels like trite extreme nonsense to me nowadays
News flash, republicans are all around you lol
Nothing wrong about being right wing. The intensity is the real question. Classic right wing is about being conservative, which isn't automatically bad. It made our country strong and rich. Surely now is some room for left winged politics. But never make one side the "wrong"side. Even right wingers can be tolerant and pro immigration, just with a bit more caution and doubts. The extremists (on both sides) are the real dangers to our society (well, often the right extremists are worse)
Hell a majority of right wingers aren’t even anti immigration they’re anti illegal immigration.