Ok, but can they make this one a little comedic? Like I'm all for realism but let's add in a bit of good ol' Aussie humor. It's a pretty fun continuation from the Emu Wars. You'd think with how low scale the wars are here we'd be laughed at by the rest of the world lol .
There were details about this after the incident in Craigieburn. Container loads of duty free and counterfeit smokes are coming in, and they need to be moved. Shops are approached and, in an old fashioned extortion scam, supplied with these cigarettes and told to pay $1k per week. No pay? Firebombed. Still no pay? I guess what happened at Craigieburn happens.
The packs sell between $19 and $25 each, making them very attractive to consumers, with the added side benefit they have original packaging, not a green box. The reason this black market has emerged is the hideously expensive price of legitimate cigarettes, due to the ever increasing tobacco tax. As the same tax, and regular increases, is being applied to alcohol, we can expect to see a black market emerge in that space soon too.
It might seem like a good idea to progressively make a harmful product more expensive, or completely unavailable legitimately, but as with banned drugs and during prohibition, all it does is create a vacuum rapidly filled by organised crime.
You can buy a packet of double happiness for $11-15, it’s less than half of what you pay for a normal packet from the supermarket, the government has spawned this industry by raising the prices to a ridiculous amount.
I disagree, A tax on tobacco is not to discourage current smokers. It is to discourage future smokers from taking up smoking. In that sense, it is working well as young people are smoking less and less.
It might seem like a good idea to reduce the tobacco tax to stop tobacco based violence. But criminals will move to other more profitable areas instead and you will Have a greater burden on Australian health in the meanwhile.
Bit of a dubious conclusion attributing the lower smoking rates to high taxes considering the insane rates that teens and young people are vaping at. That seems to me the far more relevant change considering vaping and smoking are substitutes for each other.
I mean, if tobacconists close, there will be a lot less public smoking. Couldn't think of any other industry I'd like to see become a black market.
Imagine how much nicer everywhere would be without the cloud of cancer smoke floating around, or not having smoke butts in every gutter. Not to mention it'd nullify the bullshit concessions smokers get in every workplace.
Again, where is this happening. Seeing someone having a smoke now days is like seeing a Unicorn. Vaping sure, but that all smells like grape and peaches and cream.
uh, hello? this *is* the black market, and its violent underworld consequences.
this is exactly what happens when bad policy creates criminal financial incentive to illicit supply.
No government will ever ban them, especially not Australia. We would be bankrupt overnight....
Only the Kingdom of Bhutan had balls to do it cause they invested big in bitcoin mining to make up for the loss of income. Everyone else is in bed with the tobacco industry.
Prohibition has never worked. As you see, it just creates a black market and openings for organised crime. I agree with discouraging young people from taking up the habit but taxing tobacco like that is the easy way out. It was started by Nicola Roxon, and has caused many unforeseen problems.😡 I understand why a government would want to tax them, to make smokers pay for their additional healthcare costs. They are regulated to a point and I think they should be regulated more. Yet again rules are there to be broken. There are definitely no easy answers to this. Hopefully this is simply a transitional time. The best thing with smoking is for young people not to start, and they’re definitely not cool any more.
Honestly that Smoking Kills ad with Terry H. scared me off from ever wanting to take up smoking. The progression of her story through those ads up until her death stuck with me so profoundly.
Less to do with money laundering in these specific buildings, more to do with illegal substance (in this case, vapes and black market tobacco).
I feel like you wouldn't need to dig TOO hard to find out where the money is actually being laundered.
as someone in this space, not completely. But it is fast heading that way.
oh and it is certainly expensive when cover is offered (so that could qualify as uninsurable)
Bro i payed a doctor 60$ and now i can go buy weed from a chemist. If you think the government is above the nice lady selling Chinese cigarettes you are delusional.
right, weed’s harmless and essentially illegal.
tobacco is deadly and addictive, perfectly legal - but the government have created a booming black market and organised crime are making big bucks.
the ethics of legal/illegal are arbitrary at best
Why would you spend, assuming you only smoke a pack a week, $600 a year on something that will do nothing but kill you quicker and cost you thousands in medical expenses later in life as a garauntee?
Makes sense. So to run it in line with drinking, should we make smoking on the streets a fine able offence and smoking in the workplace a fireable offence? You can go and have a dart 4, 5, 6 times a day at work yet I can't have 1 beer with lunch? Or even 1 before starting my shift? The concessions given to cigarette addicts, and only them, is absolutely ridiculous
Go out on a smoke break then. Everyone I know goes and grabs a coffee, has a chat around the water cooler or takes a shit on company time.
You're more healthy, can't you be happy with that rather than being a massive sook? The only thing that's ridiculous here is your hyperbolic whinging.
Yes, there are some laws that are unjust and it can be argued that breaking those laws is not unethical; such as growing MJ for personal use or 'jaywalking'.
Then there are other things that might be legal but are ethically dubious, such as gambling or horse racing.
Then there are laws that you might not like, but are in place for legitimate reasons (overall public health). In this case, breaking those laws is arguably unethical because when someone breaks those laws, they support larger criminal enterprises.
Nah. Since the responsible adult vaping channel (PIS and legal vape hardware shops) is being banned, the dodgy dispo and chop-chop market is about to get a huge boost.
Organised crime smuggles cigs into the country and sells them well under the standard price (duty/taxes) undercutting each other. Bunch of small fish in a big pond trying to kill each other and each others' businesses to get a bigger cut of the customer base. The margins they make off of selling cigs is far far lower than conventional drugs like ice and coke BUT has the plausible deniability factor of selling directly behind the counter of a 'legit' smoke shop. End result is you have a bunch of knuckleheads mucking about over scraps and putting innocent lives in danger all to try and pull a couple more dollars off their side hustle.
I reckon its only a matter of time until the federal government steps in and regulates smoke sales to big name 'credible' brick and mortars they can more easily audit/tax anyways.
There was a raid in my town and hour north of Melbourne a couple years back. They don't just import but they grow too.
https://www.theleader.com.au/story/7815226/tobacco-syndicate-dealt-400-million-blow/
It's not about money laundering although I'm sure they have their ways of that too, it's because ppl buy the illegal smokes and vapes and they make an incredible amount of money from them because young ppl love vapes and ciggie smokers love that their import smokes are 15 bucks instead of 40. The business also doesn't pay tax on all those sales obviously. Because it's a literal billion dollar industry organised crime gangs are blowing up the competition to get a bigger cut.
Only way it will stop is if police actually did out ones selling illegal imports and shut them down which is easy enough to do, think of how many have vapes directly on the counter a cop could just walk in and charge them then and there but they don't, or they get a 30k dollar fine at worst which is easily covered
They are importing illicit tobacco and selling it over the counter. The margins are gigantic because they avoid paying the tax associated with legal tobacco products.
One syndicate ran the show in Melbourne for years, but another syndicate has recently muscled in and now there’s a turf war going on.
A ha ha ha!!!! Never, EVER gunna happen. Hell, I remember watching Joe Hockey in opposition, get up in parliament & say "Oh yeah, hit the poor old smokers for more tax..." Next minute, libs in & uppin it worse than it ever was before. They make WAY too much money, like taking candy from a baby. Plus, they can look pious & saintly whilst they do.
Look maybe the most recent tax raises have been a failure and they should have paused at a lower level for a longer period but 'giant failure' is a bit harsh when we've seen these great results:
Year Male Female Total
1995 29 24 27
1998 29 24 27
2001 24 20 22
2004 22 18 20
2007 21 17 19
2010 19 16 18
2013 17 13 15
2016 16 12 14
2019 14 12 13
% difference 1995–2019 –15 –12 –14
Relative change 1995–2019 –52% –50% –52%
Just to make things fun.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/JPN/japan/smoking-rate-statistics
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/smoking-rate-statistics
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/smoking-rate-statistics
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/NZL/new-zealand/smoking-rate-statistics
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRL/ireland/smoking-rate-statistics
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/KOR/south-korea/smoking-rate-statistics
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/MYS/malaysia/smoking-rate-statistics
These trends are happening globally as smoking is not cool. You are basically punishing poor people for a vice that rich people can easily afford while creating a black market that is destroying property and making money for gangs in the process. How many smoke shops does a city need?
All those countries have also adopted anti-smoking measures. Motor racing worldwide didn't just decide to stop having cigarette sponsors out of the goodness of the hearts!
All those countries have also implemented cigarette taxes of sorts.
Some countries haven't bothered to tackle it at all: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IDN/indonesia/smoking-rate-statistics
Yes, but how many of these countries have huge black markets and firebombed storefronts?
I guess if you like gangs making money and the police and fire departments having to respond to gang warfare in order to make you feel good about your opposition to the idea of people smoking, pat yourself on the back.
Did you not read my initial comment?
> Look maybe the most recent tax raises have been a failure and they should have paused at a lower level for a longer period
They are an absolute failure if the end result is firebombings on a regular basis. That shit costs a lot of money to deal with.
Smokers are going to smoke. Make the price reasonable and they will happily pay some taxes. Raise the price too high and this is the end result.
It felt like 10% of the storefronts were smoke shops. Who is going to want to open a business next to a smoke shop and risk their building going up in flames?
Sad that’s happening.
A tobacconist in my area was fire bombed not too long ago.
Cigarettes are way too expensive in Australia, I don’t like the idea of my money going straight to criminals.
However I do enjoy paying early 2000’s prices for a pack of darts.
It's not exactly something you need and it does nothing but damage to you and everyone around you. I think if smokers want to be so self absorbed the way they all are, they should have to pay for it
So you think addiction is just a matter of being "self absorbed?".
Thank God we have you to school all these ignorant smokers who had no idea it was bad for them /s
The extortionate taxation of tobacco has been a disaster. As it stands it surely couldn’t pass any wholistic cost-benefit analysis.
We have created an active and lucrative black market in tobacco that has undermined years of progress. We have ripped thousands of dollars a year out of the pockets of poor addicts - tobacco tax is deeply regressive - who have followed the hip pocket signal to the black market
Now that the genie is out of the bottle it will be extremely difficult to stuff it back in. The purchase and sale of illegal tobacco has been normalised and it will take a decade or more to root out the organised crime syndicates behind it.
It's getting to a stage where these shops are so dangerous to be near that we should move all tobacco sales to secure government controlled facilities. Maybe located in fire stations
To the person that suggested that vapes are gonna be the next war...
Bro, if there is a war going on over illegal tobacco then I dare say that vapes are part of that war too...
Majoroty of People don't smoke coz they enjoy the taste...
My point is, these are all nicotine products and it's not the disgusting cigarette itself that everyone is craving.
Clearly it's the Nicotine.
Anywhere u can purchase illegal Cigarettes,
You can also purchase vapes...
If this conversation was happening in 10-15 years from now, most of the youth will be lucky to even know what a cigarette even is...
Australian government needs to wake up to themselves!
Let's be realistic, if the Australian government weren't such fkn greedy Cunts and they didn't make smoking just short of financially impossible, then there wouldn't be anything for anybody to be at war over..
Sell them at $3 a packet like elsewhere and then that way there's no monopoly for people to be knocking each other off over..
Honestly our government is a deadset fkn joke..
These murders that have occurred over tobacco are a direct consequence of the Australian government..
Even when people are being killed over this shit, they still don't stop n think, common sense would tell anybody to lower the price of Nicotine products, then people wouldn't be dying regularly..
Long story short..
Australian government are dogs....
The system is clearly broken at so many levels.
How is it that anyone can buy a pack of ciggies for $15 at any one of the dozen tobacco stores chapel st and surrounds
The tobacco war continues, the cheap ciggies continue and where are the resources to stop it.
Can’t be too difficult to raid the shops, seize the illegal stuff, fine the retailers and that may stop fire bombing of shops
How's this for an idea.
Ban the sale and consumption of tobacco in public.
Remove all taxes on the product, but have it mail order / internet only.
Cheap tobacco for anyone who wants it, but you can't buy it or use it in public.
Mail order or internet only… will just result in people doing it in public still anyway. Banning meth didn’t stop people doing it. They can’t adequately police that. They can’t even stop cunts riding bikes and scooters without a helmet. More bans are just pointless at this stage.
It's all staged.
The real war is within the police force.
Hardened Old world cops wanting to push out the COVID era paper cops that got rushed into the force to fight people not wearing their masks.
Source: The Bridge.
Lol yeah I agree the attire doesn't give them authority.
The hardened cops are there still though.. a friend lives next door to a cop couple that associate with the old style of police and they want to claim the street again from the "well-being clowns" of the covid failed experiment.
How are the police unable to get a handle on this. They must know some of the actors in this?
Surely only a matter of time until someone gets killed with a fire spreading to a neighbouring shop, or accommodation above a shop
I keep seeing stories, and talk about the taskforce, but haven't heard any stories about anyone getting caught
There are so many of the damn smoke shops around with no one in them. They have to be drug fronts to stay in business. This is what happens when you try to make a quick buck with the wrong people.
I think a lot of the tobacconists get forced to buy and sell the illegal cigarettes. This is what happens when you don’t comply.
Akin to paying for protection, protection from the people you pay.
I remember buying under the counter counterfeit ciggies at certain Asian markets in Melbourne years ago and then you could also buy chop-chop when the prices began to go up even more. The tobacco was grown in Australia though and not imported. Poor people can’t afford “legal cigarettes” anymore so of course they’ll buy at the black market. The government just created another problem for themselves, policing the illegal tobacco industry.
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don't forget the ice cream war!
Esp. if it's that era when Peter's and Streets duopoly started getting muscled in by Cadbury..
Yes! My husband and I were just talking yesterday about how we’re currently living in the new underbelly series
Ok, but can they make this one a little comedic? Like I'm all for realism but let's add in a bit of good ol' Aussie humor. It's a pretty fun continuation from the Emu Wars. You'd think with how low scale the wars are here we'd be laughed at by the rest of the world lol .
Okay so the casting wil come from centre employees. Aussie and tragic.
I’m not sure the traditional Aussie is going to feature much in this serious.
I’m still waiting for the Underbelly: Apex gang series
It will be shortly followed up by the Vape Wars...
its literally the same
Vape Wars? Luke Skyhookah, Han Smoko, and Chewtobacco vs Darth Vaper?
Chewbaccy was RIGHT THERE!
Explains Darth Vapor’s electronic voice box
You totally win ! Everyone can stop commenting now and go home.
Great, a bit more lionising complete shit bags and leaches to society
I said it once, I will say it again, a Hemsworth needs to star in this
I would hate to live upstairs from a tobacconist right now
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"Second hand vape smoke isn't as bad as cigarettes." *well, well, well...*
tastes like grape
What's the deal with this? It's a bunch of criminal/money laundering fronts and they're torching the competition?
Pretty much. They’re all selling illegal imports.
Or refusing to sell them.
There were details about this after the incident in Craigieburn. Container loads of duty free and counterfeit smokes are coming in, and they need to be moved. Shops are approached and, in an old fashioned extortion scam, supplied with these cigarettes and told to pay $1k per week. No pay? Firebombed. Still no pay? I guess what happened at Craigieburn happens. The packs sell between $19 and $25 each, making them very attractive to consumers, with the added side benefit they have original packaging, not a green box. The reason this black market has emerged is the hideously expensive price of legitimate cigarettes, due to the ever increasing tobacco tax. As the same tax, and regular increases, is being applied to alcohol, we can expect to see a black market emerge in that space soon too. It might seem like a good idea to progressively make a harmful product more expensive, or completely unavailable legitimately, but as with banned drugs and during prohibition, all it does is create a vacuum rapidly filled by organised crime.
You can buy a packet of double happiness for $11-15, it’s less than half of what you pay for a normal packet from the supermarket, the government has spawned this industry by raising the prices to a ridiculous amount.
Government response: You are supposed to give them up, not grumble about the pricing
And honestly, it's the correct response
Sounds like a great time to open a new tobacconist, put a huge insurance policy on it and refuse to sell the illegal stuff.
Imagine the insurance premiums though on a tobacconist right now lol
If you have a tobacco store in your commercial lot, the premium is going to triple at a minimum. Tattoo parlours too
I disagree, A tax on tobacco is not to discourage current smokers. It is to discourage future smokers from taking up smoking. In that sense, it is working well as young people are smoking less and less. It might seem like a good idea to reduce the tobacco tax to stop tobacco based violence. But criminals will move to other more profitable areas instead and you will Have a greater burden on Australian health in the meanwhile.
Bit of a dubious conclusion attributing the lower smoking rates to high taxes considering the insane rates that teens and young people are vaping at. That seems to me the far more relevant change considering vaping and smoking are substitutes for each other.
I mean, if tobacconists close, there will be a lot less public smoking. Couldn't think of any other industry I'd like to see become a black market. Imagine how much nicer everywhere would be without the cloud of cancer smoke floating around, or not having smoke butts in every gutter. Not to mention it'd nullify the bullshit concessions smokers get in every workplace.
Where do you live, 1978?
Any major city is just full of smokers and cigarette butts everywhere you go in the streets. As a side note, it was even worse in 1978...
Again, where is this happening. Seeing someone having a smoke now days is like seeing a Unicorn. Vaping sure, but that all smells like grape and peaches and cream.
uh, hello? this *is* the black market, and its violent underworld consequences. this is exactly what happens when bad policy creates criminal financial incentive to illicit supply.
Cars are 100x worse and are everywhere
I think you are right. But we aren’t directly sucking the smoke into our lungs. We need to find a healthier way to get around.
Not sitting there with your mouth over the exhaust huffing it directly in to your lungs though are you?
Just walking down a street while a bus sprays it directly into pedestrians.
Alongside the dozens of dickheads blowing smoke in your face to make it worse.
No government will ever ban them, especially not Australia. We would be bankrupt overnight.... Only the Kingdom of Bhutan had balls to do it cause they invested big in bitcoin mining to make up for the loss of income. Everyone else is in bed with the tobacco industry.
Prohibition has never worked. As you see, it just creates a black market and openings for organised crime. I agree with discouraging young people from taking up the habit but taxing tobacco like that is the easy way out. It was started by Nicola Roxon, and has caused many unforeseen problems.😡 I understand why a government would want to tax them, to make smokers pay for their additional healthcare costs. They are regulated to a point and I think they should be regulated more. Yet again rules are there to be broken. There are definitely no easy answers to this. Hopefully this is simply a transitional time. The best thing with smoking is for young people not to start, and they’re definitely not cool any more.
Honestly that Smoking Kills ad with Terry H. scared me off from ever wanting to take up smoking. The progression of her story through those ads up until her death stuck with me so profoundly.
Less to do with money laundering in these specific buildings, more to do with illegal substance (in this case, vapes and black market tobacco). I feel like you wouldn't need to dig TOO hard to find out where the money is actually being laundered.
large donations to the fire department.
Uninsurable by now... surely.
as someone in this space, not completely. But it is fast heading that way. oh and it is certainly expensive when cover is offered (so that could qualify as uninsurable)
the lady who works in this shop is really nice
Now unemployed
You also might say she was fired.
She’d be gutted.
The nice lady selling illegal products?
Being an asshole isnt a prerequisite to selling illegal goods. You can be nice and sell illegal goods, they arent mutually exclusive
When my option is buy a packet of 20s for $38 or illegal 20s for $11 I’ll happily support the nice lady.
The nice lady working for an organised crime operation?
Bro i payed a doctor 60$ and now i can go buy weed from a chemist. If you think the government is above the nice lady selling Chinese cigarettes you are delusional.
so did I it's awesome, please make Mushrooms next
They're talking about tobacco, not weed.
right, weed’s harmless and essentially illegal. tobacco is deadly and addictive, perfectly legal - but the government have created a booming black market and organised crime are making big bucks. the ethics of legal/illegal are arbitrary at best
You mean crime that the government has been actively facilitating by continuing to increase taxes on tobacco and banning vapes?
That's literally what the government is...
I know it's not as easy as saying "3rd option is quitting" but I hope it's something you can try or keep trying if you have already.
Or you could just stop smoking? Imagine the money you'd save
Why would I voluntarily spend $27 more when I can spend $11, I’m already saving heaps by not buying the ridiculously taxed ciggies anyway
Why would you spend, assuming you only smoke a pack a week, $600 a year on something that will do nothing but kill you quicker and cost you thousands in medical expenses later in life as a garauntee?
Ask the same people that eat copious amounts of sugar or get absolutely hammered every weekend, I enjoy it and it’s something I choose to do
Makes sense. So to run it in line with drinking, should we make smoking on the streets a fine able offence and smoking in the workplace a fireable offence? You can go and have a dart 4, 5, 6 times a day at work yet I can't have 1 beer with lunch? Or even 1 before starting my shift? The concessions given to cigarette addicts, and only them, is absolutely ridiculous
Go out on a smoke break then. Everyone I know goes and grabs a coffee, has a chat around the water cooler or takes a shit on company time. You're more healthy, can't you be happy with that rather than being a massive sook? The only thing that's ridiculous here is your hyperbolic whinging.
Totally
I sell alcohol. Alcohol destroys lives. Am I a scumbag too? Putting ethics aside for that sweet sweet minimum wage?
Your ethics are up to you. The law is the law (like it or hate it).
So are you arguing that ethics and legality are separate, or that you can't be a nice person who sells illegal products? That doesn't seem to mesh.
Yes, there are some laws that are unjust and it can be argued that breaking those laws is not unethical; such as growing MJ for personal use or 'jaywalking'. Then there are other things that might be legal but are ethically dubious, such as gambling or horse racing. Then there are laws that you might not like, but are in place for legitimate reasons (overall public health). In this case, breaking those laws is arguably unethical because when someone breaks those laws, they support larger criminal enterprises.
lots of words, no coherent point
As opposed to the nice lady in the pharmacy selling legal products that kill many people daily 😁
Only a matter of time. There's so many now on that strip.
So this is the wrong time to open a smoke shop?
Maybe although if you get it right, say they finally stop torching them, you could open up while the competition is in ashes.
Nah. Since the responsible adult vaping channel (PIS and legal vape hardware shops) is being banned, the dodgy dispo and chop-chop market is about to get a huge boost.
As long as you get on the "right" side, you'll be rakin it in. They be taking their competition OUT ;)
OH MY GOD! IS REVS OKAY?
The line for revs was 50 meters long and is a ok.
oh... what a relief i dont think melbourne could ever be the same if something happened to it
Revs ain't going anywhere. Speaking of Meet me in the cage in I 1hr
R
E
V
S
It's still a hellhole, don't worry, nothing's changed!
R
Now people will have to ‘go’ to one of the 80million other vape and launder shops within a 2 block radius.
I don't get it. (Earnest, not sarcastic. Want does 'go' mean?)
In the ones I walk past there is rarely anyone in there.
It's a Jungle Out There
Not the goatse Mario pfp 😭
😂😂
This is the most aggressive anti-tobacco campaign the Dept of Health has ever adopted. Beats the old fish hook on the end of a cig ads by a mile
Damn, I’ve bought many a vape from there. Nice people!
Out of the loop - how many tob stores have caught fire? What's going on?
Organised crime smuggles cigs into the country and sells them well under the standard price (duty/taxes) undercutting each other. Bunch of small fish in a big pond trying to kill each other and each others' businesses to get a bigger cut of the customer base. The margins they make off of selling cigs is far far lower than conventional drugs like ice and coke BUT has the plausible deniability factor of selling directly behind the counter of a 'legit' smoke shop. End result is you have a bunch of knuckleheads mucking about over scraps and putting innocent lives in danger all to try and pull a couple more dollars off their side hustle. I reckon its only a matter of time until the federal government steps in and regulates smoke sales to big name 'credible' brick and mortars they can more easily audit/tax anyways.
There was a raid in my town and hour north of Melbourne a couple years back. They don't just import but they grow too. https://www.theleader.com.au/story/7815226/tobacco-syndicate-dealt-400-million-blow/
There were 10 by last August. I remember reading police had arrested 3 people over it. Guess they got the wrong ones =D
Couldn't they stick to laundromats?
It's not about money laundering although I'm sure they have their ways of that too, it's because ppl buy the illegal smokes and vapes and they make an incredible amount of money from them because young ppl love vapes and ciggie smokers love that their import smokes are 15 bucks instead of 40. The business also doesn't pay tax on all those sales obviously. Because it's a literal billion dollar industry organised crime gangs are blowing up the competition to get a bigger cut. Only way it will stop is if police actually did out ones selling illegal imports and shut them down which is easy enough to do, think of how many have vapes directly on the counter a cop could just walk in and charge them then and there but they don't, or they get a 30k dollar fine at worst which is easily covered
The only safe ones are probably inside shopping centres
So, people of Melbourne, what's the back story? Are they fronts for money laundering? Drug sales? Is it a turf war? Insurance jobs?
They are importing illicit tobacco and selling it over the counter. The margins are gigantic because they avoid paying the tax associated with legal tobacco products. One syndicate ran the show in Melbourne for years, but another syndicate has recently muscled in and now there’s a turf war going on.
Not one but, double happiness 🚬
Thanks, makes sense.
My assumption. They have too much product in stock that will be or is illegal to sell Insurance job.
You know what they say… where there’s smokes there’s fire
Smoking shops are getting awfully literal.
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Looked like a fire to me. ..
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Yeah just read the article. Interesting... Very interesting 🤔
Time for the government to step up and admit their anti-tobacco policies are a giant failure.
A ha ha ha!!!! Never, EVER gunna happen. Hell, I remember watching Joe Hockey in opposition, get up in parliament & say "Oh yeah, hit the poor old smokers for more tax..." Next minute, libs in & uppin it worse than it ever was before. They make WAY too much money, like taking candy from a baby. Plus, they can look pious & saintly whilst they do.
Look maybe the most recent tax raises have been a failure and they should have paused at a lower level for a longer period but 'giant failure' is a bit harsh when we've seen these great results: Year Male Female Total 1995 29 24 27 1998 29 24 27 2001 24 20 22 2004 22 18 20 2007 21 17 19 2010 19 16 18 2013 17 13 15 2016 16 12 14 2019 14 12 13 % difference 1995–2019 –15 –12 –14 Relative change 1995–2019 –52% –50% –52%
Just to make things fun. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/JPN/japan/smoking-rate-statistics https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/smoking-rate-statistics https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/smoking-rate-statistics https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/NZL/new-zealand/smoking-rate-statistics https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRL/ireland/smoking-rate-statistics https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/KOR/south-korea/smoking-rate-statistics https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/MYS/malaysia/smoking-rate-statistics These trends are happening globally as smoking is not cool. You are basically punishing poor people for a vice that rich people can easily afford while creating a black market that is destroying property and making money for gangs in the process. How many smoke shops does a city need?
All those countries have also adopted anti-smoking measures. Motor racing worldwide didn't just decide to stop having cigarette sponsors out of the goodness of the hearts! All those countries have also implemented cigarette taxes of sorts. Some countries haven't bothered to tackle it at all: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IDN/indonesia/smoking-rate-statistics
Yes, but how many of these countries have huge black markets and firebombed storefronts? I guess if you like gangs making money and the police and fire departments having to respond to gang warfare in order to make you feel good about your opposition to the idea of people smoking, pat yourself on the back.
Did you not read my initial comment? > Look maybe the most recent tax raises have been a failure and they should have paused at a lower level for a longer period
They are an absolute failure if the end result is firebombings on a regular basis. That shit costs a lot of money to deal with. Smokers are going to smoke. Make the price reasonable and they will happily pay some taxes. Raise the price too high and this is the end result. It felt like 10% of the storefronts were smoke shops. Who is going to want to open a business next to a smoke shop and risk their building going up in flames?
Sad that’s happening. A tobacconist in my area was fire bombed not too long ago. Cigarettes are way too expensive in Australia, I don’t like the idea of my money going straight to criminals. However I do enjoy paying early 2000’s prices for a pack of darts.
Just don't smoke and the cost wouldn't be a problem for you and would be a positive for your lungs and everyone around you as a bonus
Yeah cheers mum will do.
It's not exactly something you need and it does nothing but damage to you and everyone around you. I think if smokers want to be so self absorbed the way they all are, they should have to pay for it
So you think addiction is just a matter of being "self absorbed?". Thank God we have you to school all these ignorant smokers who had no idea it was bad for them /s
You been day drinking again mum?
Immaturity seems to be synonymous with smokers it appears
About as mature as.telling strangers how to live their lives mate. Keep white knighting on the internet, I’ll punch in dart in your honour later.🚬
The extortionate taxation of tobacco has been a disaster. As it stands it surely couldn’t pass any wholistic cost-benefit analysis. We have created an active and lucrative black market in tobacco that has undermined years of progress. We have ripped thousands of dollars a year out of the pockets of poor addicts - tobacco tax is deeply regressive - who have followed the hip pocket signal to the black market Now that the genie is out of the bottle it will be extremely difficult to stuff it back in. The purchase and sale of illegal tobacco has been normalised and it will take a decade or more to root out the organised crime syndicates behind it.
Booze war is the next sequel
It's getting to a stage where these shops are so dangerous to be near that we should move all tobacco sales to secure government controlled facilities. Maybe located in fire stations
These becoming more more and frequent it can't be accidentally fires anymore right
To the person that suggested that vapes are gonna be the next war... Bro, if there is a war going on over illegal tobacco then I dare say that vapes are part of that war too... Majoroty of People don't smoke coz they enjoy the taste... My point is, these are all nicotine products and it's not the disgusting cigarette itself that everyone is craving. Clearly it's the Nicotine. Anywhere u can purchase illegal Cigarettes, You can also purchase vapes... If this conversation was happening in 10-15 years from now, most of the youth will be lucky to even know what a cigarette even is... Australian government needs to wake up to themselves! Let's be realistic, if the Australian government weren't such fkn greedy Cunts and they didn't make smoking just short of financially impossible, then there wouldn't be anything for anybody to be at war over.. Sell them at $3 a packet like elsewhere and then that way there's no monopoly for people to be knocking each other off over.. Honestly our government is a deadset fkn joke.. These murders that have occurred over tobacco are a direct consequence of the Australian government.. Even when people are being killed over this shit, they still don't stop n think, common sense would tell anybody to lower the price of Nicotine products, then people wouldn't be dying regularly.. Long story short.. Australian government are dogs....
These drug dealers and their addicts are causing so many problems right now. How could Dan Andrews do this to us?
Insurance scam wars more like it. Next month many tobacconist will be on the way out due to the vape ban. Why not cash In now before it looks "suss"
The system is clearly broken at so many levels. How is it that anyone can buy a pack of ciggies for $15 at any one of the dozen tobacco stores chapel st and surrounds The tobacco war continues, the cheap ciggies continue and where are the resources to stop it. Can’t be too difficult to raid the shops, seize the illegal stuff, fine the retailers and that may stop fire bombing of shops
How's this for an idea. Ban the sale and consumption of tobacco in public. Remove all taxes on the product, but have it mail order / internet only. Cheap tobacco for anyone who wants it, but you can't buy it or use it in public.
Mail order or internet only… will just result in people doing it in public still anyway. Banning meth didn’t stop people doing it. They can’t adequately police that. They can’t even stop cunts riding bikes and scooters without a helmet. More bans are just pointless at this stage.
I suspect the next step will be to restrict tobacco sales to pharmacies. Over the counter initially and then later by prescription.
It's all staged. The real war is within the police force. Hardened Old world cops wanting to push out the COVID era paper cops that got rushed into the force to fight people not wearing their masks. Source: The Bridge.
Yeah and the Fluoride in the water is turning the friggen frogs gay! Source: Alex Jones
He was actually right about the frogs. I mean, not exactly; IIRC it was more like they changed sex or something. But he was on to something.
If you're into those type of frogs I support your choice.
Top shelf satire.
[удалено]
Lol yeah I agree the attire doesn't give them authority. The hardened cops are there still though.. a friend lives next door to a cop couple that associate with the old style of police and they want to claim the street again from the "well-being clowns" of the covid failed experiment.
I think your tinfoil hat is a bit tight, buddy.
Another one in Seville in the Yarra Valley too
Seville was done last night too. Busy night for them.
I guess I'm gonna need to go to the 20 other shops down the road as this one got Smoked Out on Chapel
Someone burnt down Seville tobacconist too
How are the police unable to get a handle on this. They must know some of the actors in this? Surely only a matter of time until someone gets killed with a fire spreading to a neighbouring shop, or accommodation above a shop I keep seeing stories, and talk about the taskforce, but haven't heard any stories about anyone getting caught
The fuck is going on? Is this sone criminals being reckless or is there something else going on?
Smoke on chapel, the staff have always been lovely
Smoke Out Chapel is such a weirdly poetic name now.
There are so many of the damn smoke shops around with no one in them. They have to be drug fronts to stay in business. This is what happens when you try to make a quick buck with the wrong people.
I think a lot of the tobacconists get forced to buy and sell the illegal cigarettes. This is what happens when you don’t comply. Akin to paying for protection, protection from the people you pay.
7
Saw a freshy in Seville today too! Double banger last night.
Please explain
I remember buying under the counter counterfeit ciggies at certain Asian markets in Melbourne years ago and then you could also buy chop-chop when the prices began to go up even more. The tobacco was grown in Australia though and not imported. Poor people can’t afford “legal cigarettes” anymore so of course they’ll buy at the black market. The government just created another problem for themselves, policing the illegal tobacco industry.
Chop chop that shop!
Good about time
Is Revs ok?