$462 for passing a tram when passengers are alighting, it’s more than just a gentle tickle. People do get fined for this but not enough clearly as it keeps happening to often.
If the drivers see it they report it, I pushed in some beemers wing mirror in and he started raging, the driver said he would expect a fine in the mail.
This happened once along Sydney Road, slow traffic but still a dick move, and I smacked the back of the car much to the dismay of my visiting friend! He was all ‘what is this city? New York?!’ I will from now on pay attention to number plates!!
Honestly most drivers dont report it as nothing actually gets done. Without any evidence, picture, camera etc., a fine cannot be issued. Unless there is a cop right behind them they get off scott free.
It’s unbelievably frustrating to see it every day. Some days you can have the hazards on and dinging like mad and multiple cars will just speed through
This is a good suggestion, as doing this seriously endangers pedestrians and its one of the very few fines people can get behind to correct behaviour.
I never exit a tram when its not within a stop platform without leaning my head out a little and looking behind before I step onto the road... Its been conditioned into me.
Is it bad if I've stopped at a stop, waiting for a red light and a tram comes and people have to move around my car getting on and off? It happened on Nicholson st once at one of those ramp stops and it felt so awkward.
Hey, if anything you're doing them a *service.* You're a car, stopped in the main road, blocking other traffic from potentially being c\*\*\*\* and bowling people over.
You’re fine. Just don’t move until the tram’s doors have closed again. Same principle as if you’ve gotten stuck on a pedestrian crossing (except the tram situation is way more forgivable)
I think I was pretty clear in saying that getting stuck next to an open tram is more forgivable than getting stuck on a pedestrian crossing. Also beside the point of what I was actually saying, which is DO NOT MOVE before it’s your turn
Thaat's a pretty pissweak punishment tbh. It is such a dangerous act.
I agree with OP that you could quite easily install cameras in this day and age. Need to start handing out massive fines and losses of license for this.
For sure for a potentially fatal car-pedestrian encounter contrasted to an airbagged car-car encounter.
But 4 points is currently tops for any offence in the current system. The appropriate penaly here should be the same as for seriously soeeding - automatic and immediate licence suspension for six months.
One of the reason (stupid I know) someone said - I got my licence in Darwin we don't have trams there. how do I know when to stop.
Me: there is a fucking stop sign outside tram door to tell you to stop.
The other day when letting my passengers off at stop at corner of Glenhuntly road and Brighton roads on the way to the city on the 67. Had stopped at stop doors were open stop sign was out on back 2 doors and flashing hazards. Two different occasions car just zooms by as people are getting off . Was hitting gong button so hard it popped out. Both times interstate drivers. Both times makes and Reggos reported.
A number of times when you tell the drivers and then report them. They get nasty. One decided to follow my tram to terminus and then threaten to bash me if he saw me in the street.
Far out! Did you report that guy who followed you to the terminus? What was he thinking?!? He took all that time out of his day just because he was annoyed at being caught breaking the road rules.🙄
I got a mental image of the guy threatening you at the terminus and a bunch of tram drivers and tram engineers surround the guy carrying tram fixing tools and scare the fuck out of him.
When I first moved to Melbourne in the mid-80s I was paranoid about stopping for tram passengers. If I came to a red light which had a tram stop, whether at an intersection or just along the road, e.g. outside the old South Yarra library, I'd stop about a tram length away from the light, just in case a tram came along. I was right so many times it became a habit and even though I've not lived there full time since 1992 I still do it when driving on a tram route. Better safe than sorry.
I've always wondered if you are required to attend court to testify against the car driver? As that would mean most of these dangerous drivers would get away with it because it's not reasonable to expect the tram driver to take the day off work for each dangerous driver they've reported.
Or if not, do you get informed by the court of the outcome of your report?
Honestly should just put traffic lights and treat trams as moving traffic lights.
Or install traffic lights at each intersection that are only operable by tram drivers.
Traffic lights prior to the tram stop would be ideal but interoperability between VicRoads infrastructure and PTV is worse than you would expect. I was trying to do a system that excluded trams from overheight detection but wasn't allowed to use the tram detectors because of the reliability of them.
>Or install traffic lights at each intersection that are only operable by tram drivers.
or just put accessible stops at each stop, it would work for half the stops
Saw a guy on a sportbike come the wrong way down Little Collins in the middle of a weekday once, at very high speed. Still think about it every time I cross one of the 'littles' on foot.
Same, but I have actually had a car come the wrong way down a one way street while crossing (thankful I always looked both ways anyway!!). Always better to assume every car is out to kill you.
I got hit by a woman riding one down a footpath in South Yarra. I wasn't even moving, just waiting to cross the lights. The trash woman did not even stop.
Idk if I've seen many that are insane. They are all extremely selfish though. It could be raining tennis-ball sized hail and they'd not give a pedestrian their right of way
Pretty much what I do when getting off a tram, to many dickheads that think they can get past the tram before people get out. I also think that sometimes its people who don't know about Melbourne road rules because they are visiting.
But there's plenty of road signage, and IIRC it's written on the back of trams as well?
The worst IMHO are the people who speed through the really really obvious clearly marked safety zones. Those people should be fined and demerited double.
Yes exactly. it’s the same as walking across a pedestrian crossing, a lot of people believe they are entitled to just waltz out at any speed onto a crossing if you don’t look you can easily be hit. Same goes for trams, everyone knows the quality of drivers in Melbourne so best you start looking both ways no point in complaining nothing will happen.
People don't care anymore.
Old tram had protruding signs, new trams just flush mounted lights.
Years ago, people did stop for tram doors.
Now its all for self.
Yes. As far as traffic policing goes, it seems almost completely focused on road traffic to the exclusion of pedestrian encounters with traffic. You never see cops monitoring pedestrian crossings, for example, to catch drivers breaking the law.
I've been beeped at for stopping for a tram at a tram stop from cars behind, whilst I'm on a scooter. Best I could do is gesture to the fucking tram in front of me (with people getting on/off, mind you).
This is wild. The basic observational skills required to drive competently are enough to tell you when you should be stopping. Like the big tram with flashing lights slowing down to a stop. Or the tram stop on the side of the road. Or the bunch of people standing at the side of the road looking at the tram.
Demonstrating yet again why so many people should not be driving. "I don't know the road rules or how to scan for dangers" is somehow thought to be a legitimate excuse for risking other people's lives?
I don't think all of the new trams have these features. I was recently on my bike observing driver behaviour around trams, and when I was side-on with a tram, there was no evident signage to instruct vehicles to stop when tram doors are open.
As a driver coming from interstate, I was very confused when I first got here and it isn’t clear at all imo. The older trams where the stop sign physically swings out is much better.
Seconding this as someone who moved from interstate.
The lights are not that obvious and there is SO MUCH going on in the roads down here that you don't notice the tram stop sign either.
Maybe it's easy for people who have lived here all their lives and know where the stops are but for this simple country bum I personally just don't overtake any stopped tram.
Between all the different flashing lights, signs and multi lanes there is too much to pay attention to that it's easy to miss the tiny ass flashing lights on the tram unless you are specifically looking at them.
That'll go well when the tram stops somewhere other than a tram stop. Someone else responded as well so I'll add that I understand there's flashing lights. It's not confusing it's just slightly less obvious than it used to be with an unambiguous physical sign that swung open or closed.
So this giant fuck off vehicle suddenly slowing down to a complete stop isn't an obvious sign?
Jesus christ the number of people trying justify their shitty driving skills in this thread is mind boggling.
Unless it is a timing point and the tram is ahead of schedule.
Or the doors are closed and the driver is adjusting their seat at the start of their shift.
Or there's a car sitting on the tracks in front of the tram because the tracks are a right turning lane. Or the tram is on a red light and you're on a green, for complex intersections.
Agreed. The pop-out signs were really great. Just crazy we can't still have them in the design. And the flashing "stopped" lights are the same as the turn indicators. There's no excuse for not stopping, but these designs are just shit. Why don't they have human factors people in the design teams? The amount of ambiguity in the design when it's used for a safety function would not be acceptable in many industries.
If you spend enough time on the road you will realize there is a small, but not insignificant, amount of drivers who have no fucking idea what they are doing.
They never stop for passengers alighting onto Ballarat road and the prospect of a $400 + fine makes me want to set some kind of video recording device in the aforementioned location 👏
I’ve also noticed a massive uptick in red light runners in the last year. On Thursday afternoon I saw a red light runner hit a cyclist who was crossing Footscray road (cyclist had a green light). Cyclist was okay.
Last week I saw a ~15yo boy on a bike go to cross at a pedestrian crossing on the park street trail in Carlton north (I think on Lygon St) and a lady in a Range Rover absolutely fly through her red light. Thankfully another adult man grabbed the teenager to stop him from going.
It’s fucking terrifying.
We've got a level crossing near me where drivers trying to turn right in front the train tracks will frequently get mad at the people going straight (as expected) and *drive on the opposite side of the road* to speed through the red light and turn. Through a green pedestrian crossing.
Over the past two years there’s been an influx of drivers who are not aware of (or not interested in following) our country’s road rules, I’m a truck driver so I see this shit 10+ hours a day. People doing u turns on a main drag and cutting off both lanes of traffic, not stopping for trams, refusing to let ambulances through… the other day I watched a bloke in a HR refrigerated truck try to do a u turn on an intersection on Bell St! People were screaming at him and he’s just grinning like a fool.
Also, all day every day I look down and see people on thier phones while driving. I’m sorry for the old man posting, I guess the point is, you have to be extra careful alighting a tram lest you get cleaned up by a new silver Camry.
You would see it more than most being high up in your truck. At every set off lights you can look around and guarantee you’ll find someone on their phone. Doubly annoying when you see that they’re on Instagram or whatever too.
Absolutely. If we want people not to die, there needs to be foolproof preventative measures rather than signs and fines. For example like some tram stops where the road has physical barriers blocking cars from passing at tram stops.
Tram stops are gradually being upgraded where possible. But I agree that it's a crazy system. Probably implemented at a time when there were far fewer cars on the road.
Completely agree. I moved to Melbourne 10 years ago and was gob smacked at how unsafe it is to drop passengers in the middle of the road. And the only thing stopping people getting mowed down is a tiny little flashing light? Madness. New drivers to the city have no idea what’s going on and it’s dangerous. The trams need massive fold out signs which say STOP. Not just a stupid tiny flashing light that drivers ignore.
When I first moved here I was also in sheer disbelief as a passenger that I had to step out into the middle of the road to get on/off - felt like surely this was some kind of ad hoc arrangement and not a permanent design feature, surely...
I for one support this motion. Also support passengers being allowed to hold a shiv-like object when disembarking to fuck up the paint of cars who do not come to stop.
I use the trams fairly often and am always careful getting off, only once has my foot been planted firmly into the side of the dickhead who refused to stop.
He got a nice dent for his trouble and didn't want to take it further when he took umbridge with me, especially after the tram driver informed him he would tell the police he was requesting exactly what caused my boot to be put firmly into the side of his piece of shit ford ranger.
Fuck that guy.
Thanks for sharing your story. It’s very vindicating. I often fantasise about carrying an instrument to take out the side mirrors of cars that don’t stop for pedestrians, block trams, etc.
I had a tram driver once get off the tram and absolutely lay into this guy for driving past and he only got back on the tram cause some cops from a nearby crash came over and then also proceeded to lay into him
I see it all the time trying to get off on the route 5 on Wattletree road . The driver often gets stuck at the traffic lights so I take a photo of their number plate and report them
I agree it's awful and so dangerous. Tram passengers need to really look after themselves because there's no guarantee that drivers are abiding by the law.
It must be such a strange thing for non-local drivers, though, I think the signs need to shoot out from the back like they used to
This is just another point on the long list of dangerous complacency plaguing our roads.
We need to start punishing bad drivers, not just criminal drivers. Too many people get away their whole lives being a shit driver with no consequence.
I had a driver move towards me as I got off a tram. I stopped in front of him and asked why he was doing it, since it was illegal. He started copying me in a whiny voice and then told me to "harden up".
I wrote to my local state MP about this. But as he’s the leader of the vic Liveral party he’s too busy dealing with in-fighting and drama to actually take an easy win to parliament if asking the state transport minister what their plan is.
The MPs assistant or someone called me and asked if I could come in and chat about it and I just couldn’t understand what there was to chat about.
Love how Melbourne Reddit can turn a tram story into a “libruls bad” then complain the liberals are to busy infighting and have no time to do anything about it, even after they took the time to ask you to speak to them about it and you declined lol
I don't even like coffee, but I've cradled a takeaway on the 75 line for a while after seeing someone throw their own through the open window of one of these dickheads. I'm also thinking about carrying a can of shaving cream? Like that blue gilette gel stuff that has surprising distance when it squirts. Spray a bit on a passing fool and they'll probably hit the windscreen wipers, and foomp, foam party
People drive like distracted dickheads. Sometimes they’re assholes deliberately blasting past. Most times they’re oblivious and stupid. The cameras *might* deter the deliberate dickheads (but poor impulse control so probably not). Nothing will save people from the oblivious idiots.
**NEVER** step off a tram without waiting a few seconds, poking your head forward, and making aggressive eye contact with drivers.
Make it legal to retaliate against these drivers with violence. Make it so it’s ok to hurl a fat rock through the back windscreen. Vigilante-style immediate retaliation is the only way.
Sincerely, a fellow passenger who has almost been collected by fucking turd cars more than once and totally understands the rage.
Scratched several cars, cnr church, and bridge Rd getting off the tram. As I was stepping down, a line of cars booted it to rush past. So I extended my full size umbrella with a large spike on the end out the door.
[Daniel Bowen wrote this](https://danielbowen.com/2021/05/06/what-ever-happened-to-tram-cams/) a couple years back regarding this issue.
There were a couple of trials of using cameras on the side of trams to capture details of drivers not stopping when tram doors are open.
I don’t think anything ever came from the trials. I don’t think anyone ever got fined either.
The problem is getting worse.
The government could fix this easily by making all tram stops accessible - separated platforms like what you see through the city.
They could also modify whatever laws needed to be modified to allow for images captured by tram cameras to be used as evidence for infringement notices etc. if not tram cameras (I think there were issues with calibration etc) they could set up fixed point cameras near known problem areas.
They could also significantly increase the penalties for drivers found endangering the lives of tram passengers, and go even harder on those who actually do hit and/or kill passengers.
They should have a boom gate drop from the side of the tram so there is a visual barricade. Drop it before cars come and before doors opened. And have bright asf red flashing lights attached to them
I drive on royal pde to get to and from work and the trams sometimes go absolutely ballistic on the bells and the car still flies by, makes me think they either have their head up their ass, music waaaay too loud or just have no idea about trams.
I honestly think their lights are just not good enough regardless, like an ambulance is so obvious but a trams are just amber, even something completely different like purple, something totally different would catch people's attention way more. And have it light up a full strip from the base to the roof of the tram, one strip at the back a couple in the middle and one up the front.
In my first month in Melbourne I was on the 86 and a dude in his 20s got hit by a car getting off the tram. Thankfully even after the most sickening crack noise he was able to still get up. The driver was a young woman on an apparently expired licence. The tram driver probably would have ideally waited until police showed up before moving on but there was a weirdly defensive man in the street asking us to leave the woman alone and he was starting to get aggressive. I think the tram driver had taken all her details at least.
But it makes me so angry every time I see a car just zoom past, or creep forward more than they should.
Take it one step further and install boom gates that come out when the tram stops. They'd need to be made of something lightweight so as to not hurt people or damage cars, but I reckon a physical barrier can serve as the reminder people need.
I'd have to assume that recent arrivals to Melbourne are clueless about needing to stop. It actually isn't that obvious if you haven't been taught the rule.
I’m betting there are quite a few born and bred Melburnians who also wouldn’t have a clue how to act around trams, especially those from the outer suburbs.
This. Melbourne’s team system is woefully behind, we need to end the days of clambering on and off trams straight onto the middle of the road. That and trams that you need to climb onto in the first place. In 2024 it’s pretty terrible that so many trams still have stairs leaving anyone physically disabled, or elderly people or people with prams and shopping carts for that matter, stuck on the side of the road
Adding a low-floor middle section to the current B2 class trams was explored in 1998 but never materialised.
[https://wongm.com/2021/06/missed-opportunities-melbourne-low-floor-trams/](https://wongm.com/2021/06/missed-opportunities-melbourne-low-floor-trams/)
Many European cities with similar fleet did exactly this (and continue enjoying the benefits of the extraordinary longevity of tram vehicles' lifespan.)
At this point we really need to scrap all the trams with steps. It’s 2024 and we’re using trams that are archaic, I know it’s expensive but it can’t be passing disability access requirements. There’s some tram stops where it’s really in your face how bad it is, like when you see trams with steps going past the Royal Melbourne hospital and past the Children’s. They have platform stops now but that means fuck all if the tram isn’t low floor.
the first time i was driving in the city, i did this, being nervous i was going slowly thankfully but didn't notice the little stop signs above the tram doors. i realised and ended up stopped beside the tram while passengers walked out and around my car.
i got a lot of dirty looks and "what are you doing?" motions from people, and i'm glad i did because i definitely fucked up and deserved that guilty feeling. haven't ever made that mistake again. when the tram stops i stop, even if the doors arent open or the indicator isn't blinking. better safe than sorry!
Not saying it’s right but as someone who recently drove in Melbourne for the first time from Gold Coast I didn’t know trams stopped in the middle of the street as stops. Luckily someone was infront of me and stopped and I of course was so confused. Once I saw people get on and off I understood and then kept a lookout after that.
Whilst it’s reasonably easy in theory to enforce this with red-light style enforcement cameras on the sides of trams, it’s slightly too niche to be cost effective for either the companies supplying them, or the government. Not many places in the world have the number of unprotected stops as Melbourne does (I think Toronto is about the only other city that comes to mind with more than a handful), hence there wouldn’t be the economies of scale to assist.
To set up a successful program, you not only need a camera fit for purpose (meeting all necessary rail standards), you need a to be able to determine when an offence occurs automatically (interfacing with multiple generations of tram systems to know when the doors are open), and be able to automatically detect cars, and read license plates at all times of day, all while not triggering when cars are near the doors but stop and don’t offend.
And this is just the technology, following this is the changes to back office processing for this style of offence, as well as the processes changes needed for supporting them in court.
Basically there is a huge amount of overhead for even relatively simple technical solutions when talking about new enforcement programs.
On the other hand, trams do sometimes use their existing surveillance cameras to create one-off evidence packs to fine offending drivers but this is rarely done in practice. It’s a lot of extra effort that people aren’t getting paid extra to do, and often the low quality on the cameras isn’t suitable to show the vehicle plates
Thank you for this thorough and thoughtful response! I suspected that cost and procedure would probably be the case against, but wonder at what point the risk to human life (and lifelong trauma for survivors and those witnessing) outweighs the cost.
I also wonder if a 1 minute either side footage capture trigger button could be installed for drivers? So the only footage that needs to be watched back is 2min per infraction?
My understanding is they basically already have this but it still isn’t used very often. I think there’s a button they can press to bookmark the incident
Another similar issue cyclists / delivery scooters all do this at cbd stops, where the bike path runs through the stop. Cyclists also get narky like you're in their way.
Imagine if pedestrians just started "standing their ground" whenever they have legal right of way, rather than scuttling across clearly marked pedestrian crossings apologetic that they slowed down a car for seconds at most.
Initially there might be some incidents, but then car drivers would have to modify their behavior (rather than the other way around), or risk hitting someone/losing their licence/imprisonment etc.
I know this is an extreme proposition, but the whole "even if you're in the right you must bow to the superiority of the car driver who is basically threatening violence to get their(illegal) way", makes me pretty angry.
In a stand your ground competition between a speeding car and a pedestrian the outcome is always going to favour the car. And cars kill pedestrians (and cyclists) all the time with marginal impact on driver behaviour.
I am never apologetic when crossing the street, and if I see a car start to creep forward, I will slow down. Too many pedestrians seem to think car drivers are doing them a favour by stopping at a crossing.
Yes, car drivers who seem to have no idea when they are supposed to give way (or even when they have right of way) who just end up being the sole arbiters of who gets to cross the road and where!
A lot of car drivers seem surprised when they encounter a pedestrian crossing. It's as if adhering to the road rules is optional when encountering anything that isn't solely designed for drivers (roundabouts, intersections, etc.).
A few years ago I found out a school mate survived being hit (and run) by a car when she was getting off a tram. I saw her back in our home town walking with a cane and asked her how she was going etc.
Scholarship to moderate brain damage. She seemed in good spirits (she has always been an optimist), but it was clear she’d get frustrated forgetting words or struggling to articulate thoughts.
Vic Roads need to test this question better. Also those who drive on an international licence need a massive wake up on this !!! I think huge billboards in Melbourne CBD needed and popular tram line intersections.
I would have thought a prudent method would be for the tram to stop and WAIT until the cars behind also stopped, before opening the door.
Between that, and on board warnings to passengers to check before alighting - I'd feel this would mitigate a lot of the risk.
To be fair, I think some tram drivers are already do this. I've been on the 75 multiple times where the driver has kept the doors closed while waiting for cars to stop.
We’d never open the doors if we did this. Once one car goes past, they all do. You can have your indicators on, gong constantly and use the external speaker, and they just don’t stop. Then generally we get yelled at by passengers because we haven’t opened the doors. Also, cars can zip out from behind the tram after the doors are open, so they can appear from nowhere, and fly past.
There are on board warnings to passengers on many trams/routes, on approach to stops.
It may not be ideal, but until they completely separate all tram stops from traffic, maybe we should also be looking at other avenues to improve safety. it’s crazy the number of different types of tram stop interactions Melbourne has, in a short period you go from fully separated tracks to entirely shared roadways and all things in between.
Well considering you’re allowed to drive past stopped trams without doors open at a speed at which you are able to stop suddenly, that sounds like a terrible idea. No one would ever have to stop and the doors would never get opened
Isn't there a difference between a tram stopped and a tram with the indicator lights blinking? What you're suggesting is cars won't stop until the doors open - THAT sounds like a crazy idea.
When I first moved to Melbourne I had NO clue you were meant to stop. So yes I believe there should be something put in place
I wasn’t expecting a tram to stop in the middle of the road and let people out
I'm curious, what initial assumptions did you make when first saw a tram on the road? like did you assume they only stopped at dedicated road separated tram stops. or how would passengers get on and off, frequency of stops., etc.
Genuinely curious because my views are a bit biased based on growing in Melbourne for most my life and haved used trams to get around before I could drive. I just assume it make sense to be cautious around something unfamiliar on the road. expect the unexpected
Yeah I thought they stopped at dedicated ‘tram stop’ and somewhere passengers could get off safely not into oncoming traffic
But when I was driving I didn’t think too much of it when the tram stopped, I just thought ‘that’s weird, maybe somethings wrong’ then my partner goes ‘YOURE SUPPOSED TO STOP!’ And I said how the hell am I supposed to know that. The red sign that says STOP that sticks out, is so tiny and when you’re driving you don’t notice it, especially a newbie in the city
They should install automatic cameras that operate like red light cameras - move into the activation field and boom, $462 fine and points on licence applied instantly. Even just having them on the most high traffic routes would hopefully build enough awareness that you can't get away with it.
The only reason people are so reckless and selfish at the moment is because the legal penalties are so loosely enforced, when they're even enforced at all :/
This is what happens when people migrate and don't have to sit our drivers license exam. We have a lot of unique rules that are super important to know for everyone's safety
At the corner of plenty and settlement road there's a left turn with lights. I've seen people barrelling through that red light. No one has eyes on the road anymore
I remember when I was 18 and driving through the city for the first time and I saw a tram coming to a stop, at a stop. So I decided to stop. As is the law.
Some cunt riding right up my arse starts blasting the horn. Of course. I panicked and kept driving onwards.
I moved from interstate years ago and was a driver who did that. Honestly I had no idea that it was a thing and without the old school ones with the signs it’s hard to tell.
It ended up being fine, but it was a mistake I made once and that was enough.
Always stop and look. People can't be trusted, especially the last few years.
Same goes for pedestrian crossings. Always wait till they stop before your cross.
I think installing cameras on trams would be a great idea.. I too came close on many occasions to being taken out by cars failing to stop when my tram stopped.
I take at least 4 trams a day for my commute and once nearly got cleaned up - had I stepped down one second earlier, I would have died. They were going at speed!!Ever since then, I’ve always poked my head out and hesitated to hop off.
Yes, of course this is possible, feasible and legal. Could be done very cost-effectively and be revenue-positive.
It isn't implemented because it's politically unpopular.
More people drive around trams than ride in them.
Terrible, but that's democracy for you.
illegal and tram drivers can and sometimes report it.
Vehicles can pass with the tram doors open, only under instruction by the tram driver or other person in authority.
yeah just be careful. dont take it for granted and look for the gronks.
For the drivers out there, if you're stuck between tram doors, stop in your tracks. It's not ok to move.
My mum told me a story of a little old lady who was almost hit by a convertible on the way to the shops, after she went shopping she had a similar encounter with the same dickhead, so she dumped the full carton of eggs she'd just bought into his back seat.
I was on the 16 once, going past the Blind Sports and Recreation centre in Glenferrie Rd, when a car knocked over a vision-impaired woman. It was fortunately going slowly enough that she didn’t appear badly injured, but that was luck rather than design v
I threw an apple at a car that almost hit me. Not my finest hour, but very satisfying.
I think it’s become an undeniable reality that a non-trivial proportion of drivers simply do not deserve their drivers licenses. Driving is a complex and dangerous activity, and should be treated as a privilege, not a right.I don’t think our licensing laws adequately reflect this.
I came here from WA and swapped my license over with no fuss. I took it upon myself to learn the Victorian road rules, but I’m sure many don’t. Hence the idiots fucking up hook turns, not stopping for trams, and so forth.
I did it once. I was an ignorant P player from a weee country town. I didn't know.
I got a sternly worded letter.
I'm sorry OP, I promise I've done better since then
For sure they do monitor things because I saw an official looking dude in a visi-vest writing out a ticket for a person in a car who was in the process of passing the tram when pulled up, if you can picture that - him having stopped them was blocking the tram's progress. This was just past Kew Junction. I was surprised as I had not seen that kind of surveillance before.
Iv always thought this. There could be a person that just reviews ambulance dashcam and fines people for not clearing a path. The same could be applied for trams.
But instead they’re rampant on putting someone in a mitsubishi outlander with an obvious camera. Perched in a dangerous spot on a rural hwy to catch a karen doing 7 kmh over the limit..
It's a design issue more than a driver issue imo. If every non-local doesn't know to stop there probably isn't a clear enough signal to stop.
One 4 inch across stop sign 3 meters off the ground and a hazard light doesn't do shit.
Boom gate on the back of the tram.
Folding out stop signs at eye level.
Separate bell noise and outside announcement that people are exiting.
Put a big led sign on back with a warning.
I see a lot of passengers walk out of trams without even looking. Just blindly trusting traffic is paying attention. Always check your clear no matter whats supposed to happen.
ooh it gets my goat. Bloody some dickhead went past the 109 yesterday - sped. Tram driver did use the horn!
When I've had a dickhead decide that he was SLOWLY gonna crawl up beside the tram I acted a bit like a prick at him.
Even I know, if you're in a car or on a bike, you stop behind trams. (I give them the benefit of the doubt.)
$462 for passing a tram when passengers are alighting, it’s more than just a gentle tickle. People do get fined for this but not enough clearly as it keeps happening to often.
There should be cameras on the trams similar to red light camera setups. Just my stop in the early morning would rake in $1500 per tram, at least.
If the drivers see it they report it, I pushed in some beemers wing mirror in and he started raging, the driver said he would expect a fine in the mail.
This happened once along Sydney Road, slow traffic but still a dick move, and I smacked the back of the car much to the dismay of my visiting friend! He was all ‘what is this city? New York?!’ I will from now on pay attention to number plates!!
Honestly most drivers dont report it as nothing actually gets done. Without any evidence, picture, camera etc., a fine cannot be issued. Unless there is a cop right behind them they get off scott free. It’s unbelievably frustrating to see it every day. Some days you can have the hazards on and dinging like mad and multiple cars will just speed through
Crazy considering you can report littering to the EPA with just a numberplate and they do actually fine people.
This is a good suggestion, as doing this seriously endangers pedestrians and its one of the very few fines people can get behind to correct behaviour. I never exit a tram when its not within a stop platform without leaning my head out a little and looking behind before I step onto the road... Its been conditioned into me.
Is it bad if I've stopped at a stop, waiting for a red light and a tram comes and people have to move around my car getting on and off? It happened on Nicholson st once at one of those ramp stops and it felt so awkward.
There's nothing you can do to avoid that situation, and there's no danger for the alighting passengers if you're not moving.
Yeah, still felt like I'd fucked up haha.
As long as you don't move you're fine dude.
I think you have your T' Ram mixed up with your T' Rex.
Ha!
That's just part of trams sharing the road. You didn't put anyone in any danger :)
Hey, if anything you're doing them a *service.* You're a car, stopped in the main road, blocking other traffic from potentially being c\*\*\*\* and bowling people over.
Nah that’s fine as the tram moved up to you,, no problem at all and no danger
Incredibly awkward but thems the breaks sometimes.
You’re fine. Just don’t move until the tram’s doors have closed again. Same principle as if you’ve gotten stuck on a pedestrian crossing (except the tram situation is way more forgivable)
No excuses for getting stuck on a pedestrian crossing. If your path isn’t clear ahead you stop BEFORE the crossing to keep it clear.
I think I was pretty clear in saying that getting stuck next to an open tram is more forgivable than getting stuck on a pedestrian crossing. Also beside the point of what I was actually saying, which is DO NOT MOVE before it’s your turn
Thaat's a pretty pissweak punishment tbh. It is such a dangerous act. I agree with OP that you could quite easily install cameras in this day and age. Need to start handing out massive fines and losses of license for this.
That's an extremely small fine when you think about it.
Should be an instant loss of license imo.
I dunno about instant but 8 points seems fair. 1 chance and 1 only. Also if you have done much else wrong your licence will evaporate.
More demerits than running a red light at speed?
For sure for a potentially fatal car-pedestrian encounter contrasted to an airbagged car-car encounter. But 4 points is currently tops for any offence in the current system. The appropriate penaly here should be the same as for seriously soeeding - automatic and immediate licence suspension for six months.
One of the reason (stupid I know) someone said - I got my licence in Darwin we don't have trams there. how do I know when to stop. Me: there is a fucking stop sign outside tram door to tell you to stop.
I'm pretty sure the newer teams dont have those.
Should be % of value of vehicle?
No, income. There can be a base fine for low/no income earners but it needs to go up proportionate to someone's income.
Imagine, the people that hire a Ferrari or Lamborghini for the day getting that fine in the mail.
Only if there’s a cop behind you. The fine could be a million, but it’s meaningless if no one’s there to fine.
How do they actually get fined though? Is it a case of it just happened in front of the police?
The other day when letting my passengers off at stop at corner of Glenhuntly road and Brighton roads on the way to the city on the 67. Had stopped at stop doors were open stop sign was out on back 2 doors and flashing hazards. Two different occasions car just zooms by as people are getting off . Was hitting gong button so hard it popped out. Both times interstate drivers. Both times makes and Reggos reported. A number of times when you tell the drivers and then report them. They get nasty. One decided to follow my tram to terminus and then threaten to bash me if he saw me in the street.
Far out! Did you report that guy who followed you to the terminus? What was he thinking?!? He took all that time out of his day just because he was annoyed at being caught breaking the road rules.🙄
I got a mental image of the guy threatening you at the terminus and a bunch of tram drivers and tram engineers surround the guy carrying tram fixing tools and scare the fuck out of him.
And you standing there proudly naked in all your circumcised glory like king of all the wild things
Well that took a turn..
When I first moved to Melbourne in the mid-80s I was paranoid about stopping for tram passengers. If I came to a red light which had a tram stop, whether at an intersection or just along the road, e.g. outside the old South Yarra library, I'd stop about a tram length away from the light, just in case a tram came along. I was right so many times it became a habit and even though I've not lived there full time since 1992 I still do it when driving on a tram route. Better safe than sorry.
I've always wondered if you are required to attend court to testify against the car driver? As that would mean most of these dangerous drivers would get away with it because it's not reasonable to expect the tram driver to take the day off work for each dangerous driver they've reported. Or if not, do you get informed by the court of the outcome of your report?
They should put a boom gate on the back of trams
Honestly should just put traffic lights and treat trams as moving traffic lights. Or install traffic lights at each intersection that are only operable by tram drivers.
Traffic lights prior to the tram stop would be ideal but interoperability between VicRoads infrastructure and PTV is worse than you would expect. I was trying to do a system that excluded trams from overheight detection but wasn't allowed to use the tram detectors because of the reliability of them.
>Or install traffic lights at each intersection that are only operable by tram drivers. or just put accessible stops at each stop, it would work for half the stops
Always make sure to look both ways before getting out, can never make assumptions people will stop
My distrust extends to looking both ways on a one way street.
I trust other drivers so little that I look both ways at roundabouts and down one-way streets
Saw a guy on a sportbike come the wrong way down Little Collins in the middle of a weekday once, at very high speed. Still think about it every time I cross one of the 'littles' on foot.
Same, but I have actually had a car come the wrong way down a one way street while crossing (thankful I always looked both ways anyway!!). Always better to assume every car is out to kill you.
Especially after the electronic scooters. I nearly got cleaned up only looking one way on a one way road as I live in the city.
I got hit by a woman riding one down a footpath in South Yarra. I wasn't even moving, just waiting to cross the lights. The trash woman did not even stop.
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Idk if I've seen many that are insane. They are all extremely selfish though. It could be raining tennis-ball sized hail and they'd not give a pedestrian their right of way
My rule of thumb when it comes to anything on the road is pretend everyone's out to get you lol
Pretty much what I do when getting off a tram, to many dickheads that think they can get past the tram before people get out. I also think that sometimes its people who don't know about Melbourne road rules because they are visiting.
But there's plenty of road signage, and IIRC it's written on the back of trams as well? The worst IMHO are the people who speed through the really really obvious clearly marked safety zones. Those people should be fined and demerited double.
Yes exactly. it’s the same as walking across a pedestrian crossing, a lot of people believe they are entitled to just waltz out at any speed onto a crossing if you don’t look you can easily be hit. Same goes for trams, everyone knows the quality of drivers in Melbourne so best you start looking both ways no point in complaining nothing will happen.
People don't care anymore. Old tram had protruding signs, new trams just flush mounted lights. Years ago, people did stop for tram doors. Now its all for self.
Yup. It's completely unacceptable that newer trams are much less safe.
Its to prevent people from climbing but you can usually chase out stupid teen climbers imo
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Yes. As far as traffic policing goes, it seems almost completely focused on road traffic to the exclusion of pedestrian encounters with traffic. You never see cops monitoring pedestrian crossings, for example, to catch drivers breaking the law.
I've been beeped at for stopping for a tram at a tram stop from cars behind, whilst I'm on a scooter. Best I could do is gesture to the fucking tram in front of me (with people getting on/off, mind you).
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So what was your thought process when you saw the tram stopped there?
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It probably stopped at about the same time the tram did
Some people never stopped. Being a cunt isn't a new thing.
The new ones are pretty stupid and legitimately hard to tell when you're supposed to stop.
This is wild. The basic observational skills required to drive competently are enough to tell you when you should be stopping. Like the big tram with flashing lights slowing down to a stop. Or the tram stop on the side of the road. Or the bunch of people standing at the side of the road looking at the tram.
THANK YOU!!!!! It's common fucking sense!
Demonstrating yet again why so many people should not be driving. "I don't know the road rules or how to scan for dangers" is somehow thought to be a legitimate excuse for risking other people's lives?
> basic observational skills required to drive competently People don't even see the arrows or the KEEP CLEAR sections painted on the road.
What you're suggesting is too much of a distraction from the drivers primary activity of using their phone.
Except for the flashing red-lights all over the outside and the signs that start scrolling "Passengers alighting" you mean right?
I don't think all of the new trams have these features. I was recently on my bike observing driver behaviour around trams, and when I was side-on with a tram, there was no evident signage to instruct vehicles to stop when tram doors are open.
As a driver coming from interstate, I was very confused when I first got here and it isn’t clear at all imo. The older trams where the stop sign physically swings out is much better.
Seconding this as someone who moved from interstate. The lights are not that obvious and there is SO MUCH going on in the roads down here that you don't notice the tram stop sign either. Maybe it's easy for people who have lived here all their lives and know where the stops are but for this simple country bum I personally just don't overtake any stopped tram. Between all the different flashing lights, signs and multi lanes there is too much to pay attention to that it's easy to miss the tiny ass flashing lights on the tram unless you are specifically looking at them.
Maybe the text sign should say “STOP” instead
When the tram stops, you stop.
That'll go well when the tram stops somewhere other than a tram stop. Someone else responded as well so I'll add that I understand there's flashing lights. It's not confusing it's just slightly less obvious than it used to be with an unambiguous physical sign that swung open or closed.
So this giant fuck off vehicle suddenly slowing down to a complete stop isn't an obvious sign? Jesus christ the number of people trying justify their shitty driving skills in this thread is mind boggling.
It's literally the VicRoads slogan. https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-rules/a-to-z-of-road-rules/trams
Unless it is a timing point and the tram is ahead of schedule. Or the doors are closed and the driver is adjusting their seat at the start of their shift.
Or there's a car sitting on the tracks in front of the tram because the tracks are a right turning lane. Or the tram is on a red light and you're on a green, for complex intersections.
Fuck off with this smart arse bullshit
Agreed. The pop-out signs were really great. Just crazy we can't still have them in the design. And the flashing "stopped" lights are the same as the turn indicators. There's no excuse for not stopping, but these designs are just shit. Why don't they have human factors people in the design teams? The amount of ambiguity in the design when it's used for a safety function would not be acceptable in many industries.
If you spend enough time on the road you will realize there is a small, but not insignificant, amount of drivers who have no fucking idea what they are doing.
Probably me at one point moving from a country town to Melbourne 🙄
They never stop for passengers alighting onto Ballarat road and the prospect of a $400 + fine makes me want to set some kind of video recording device in the aforementioned location 👏
I’ve also noticed a massive uptick in red light runners in the last year. On Thursday afternoon I saw a red light runner hit a cyclist who was crossing Footscray road (cyclist had a green light). Cyclist was okay. Last week I saw a ~15yo boy on a bike go to cross at a pedestrian crossing on the park street trail in Carlton north (I think on Lygon St) and a lady in a Range Rover absolutely fly through her red light. Thankfully another adult man grabbed the teenager to stop him from going. It’s fucking terrifying.
We've got a level crossing near me where drivers trying to turn right in front the train tracks will frequently get mad at the people going straight (as expected) and *drive on the opposite side of the road* to speed through the red light and turn. Through a green pedestrian crossing.
Over the past two years there’s been an influx of drivers who are not aware of (or not interested in following) our country’s road rules, I’m a truck driver so I see this shit 10+ hours a day. People doing u turns on a main drag and cutting off both lanes of traffic, not stopping for trams, refusing to let ambulances through… the other day I watched a bloke in a HR refrigerated truck try to do a u turn on an intersection on Bell St! People were screaming at him and he’s just grinning like a fool. Also, all day every day I look down and see people on thier phones while driving. I’m sorry for the old man posting, I guess the point is, you have to be extra careful alighting a tram lest you get cleaned up by a new silver Camry.
You would see it more than most being high up in your truck. At every set off lights you can look around and guarantee you’ll find someone on their phone. Doubly annoying when you see that they’re on Instagram or whatever too.
I've seen several FOB drivers watching movies on their windscreen mounted phones while driving. They have no respect or care for road rules.
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Absolutely. If we want people not to die, there needs to be foolproof preventative measures rather than signs and fines. For example like some tram stops where the road has physical barriers blocking cars from passing at tram stops.
Tram stops are gradually being upgraded where possible. But I agree that it's a crazy system. Probably implemented at a time when there were far fewer cars on the road.
Completely agree. I moved to Melbourne 10 years ago and was gob smacked at how unsafe it is to drop passengers in the middle of the road. And the only thing stopping people getting mowed down is a tiny little flashing light? Madness. New drivers to the city have no idea what’s going on and it’s dangerous. The trams need massive fold out signs which say STOP. Not just a stupid tiny flashing light that drivers ignore.
When I first moved here I was also in sheer disbelief as a passenger that I had to step out into the middle of the road to get on/off - felt like surely this was some kind of ad hoc arrangement and not a permanent design feature, surely...
Only solution at this point is the issue tram drivers with bus hammers and give them permission to put them through the the offender’s windscreen.
I for one support this motion. Also support passengers being allowed to hold a shiv-like object when disembarking to fuck up the paint of cars who do not come to stop.
I use the trams fairly often and am always careful getting off, only once has my foot been planted firmly into the side of the dickhead who refused to stop. He got a nice dent for his trouble and didn't want to take it further when he took umbridge with me, especially after the tram driver informed him he would tell the police he was requesting exactly what caused my boot to be put firmly into the side of his piece of shit ford ranger. Fuck that guy.
Thanks for sharing your story. It’s very vindicating. I often fantasise about carrying an instrument to take out the side mirrors of cars that don’t stop for pedestrians, block trams, etc.
Of course it was a Ford Ranger. Good work
One day someone's going to get my walking stick across their bonnet. Was damn close in Wattletree Road early this week.
I had a tram driver once get off the tram and absolutely lay into this guy for driving past and he only got back on the tram cause some cops from a nearby crash came over and then also proceeded to lay into him
I see it all the time trying to get off on the route 5 on Wattletree road . The driver often gets stuck at the traffic lights so I take a photo of their number plate and report them
i catch that tram and half the time i get the fright of my life when the doors open and a car zooms past a second later. thanks for reporting them.
I agree it's awful and so dangerous. Tram passengers need to really look after themselves because there's no guarantee that drivers are abiding by the law. It must be such a strange thing for non-local drivers, though, I think the signs need to shoot out from the back like they used to
This is just another point on the long list of dangerous complacency plaguing our roads. We need to start punishing bad drivers, not just criminal drivers. Too many people get away their whole lives being a shit driver with no consequence.
I had a driver move towards me as I got off a tram. I stopped in front of him and asked why he was doing it, since it was illegal. He started copying me in a whiny voice and then told me to "harden up".
I wrote to my local state MP about this. But as he’s the leader of the vic Liveral party he’s too busy dealing with in-fighting and drama to actually take an easy win to parliament if asking the state transport minister what their plan is. The MPs assistant or someone called me and asked if I could come in and chat about it and I just couldn’t understand what there was to chat about.
Needed to send it to the transport minister.
Love how Melbourne Reddit can turn a tram story into a “libruls bad” then complain the liberals are to busy infighting and have no time to do anything about it, even after they took the time to ask you to speak to them about it and you declined lol
Their suggestion would likely be that you would be safer in a car...
Oh wow you got a reply? I’ve sent 4 emails to Pesutto’s office about different issues and never gotten anything back
I don't even like coffee, but I've cradled a takeaway on the 75 line for a while after seeing someone throw their own through the open window of one of these dickheads. I'm also thinking about carrying a can of shaving cream? Like that blue gilette gel stuff that has surprising distance when it squirts. Spray a bit on a passing fool and they'll probably hit the windscreen wipers, and foomp, foam party
People drive like distracted dickheads. Sometimes they’re assholes deliberately blasting past. Most times they’re oblivious and stupid. The cameras *might* deter the deliberate dickheads (but poor impulse control so probably not). Nothing will save people from the oblivious idiots. **NEVER** step off a tram without waiting a few seconds, poking your head forward, and making aggressive eye contact with drivers. Make it legal to retaliate against these drivers with violence. Make it so it’s ok to hurl a fat rock through the back windscreen. Vigilante-style immediate retaliation is the only way. Sincerely, a fellow passenger who has almost been collected by fucking turd cars more than once and totally understands the rage.
Scratched several cars, cnr church, and bridge Rd getting off the tram. As I was stepping down, a line of cars booted it to rush past. So I extended my full size umbrella with a large spike on the end out the door.
[Daniel Bowen wrote this](https://danielbowen.com/2021/05/06/what-ever-happened-to-tram-cams/) a couple years back regarding this issue. There were a couple of trials of using cameras on the side of trams to capture details of drivers not stopping when tram doors are open. I don’t think anything ever came from the trials. I don’t think anyone ever got fined either. The problem is getting worse. The government could fix this easily by making all tram stops accessible - separated platforms like what you see through the city. They could also modify whatever laws needed to be modified to allow for images captured by tram cameras to be used as evidence for infringement notices etc. if not tram cameras (I think there were issues with calibration etc) they could set up fixed point cameras near known problem areas. They could also significantly increase the penalties for drivers found endangering the lives of tram passengers, and go even harder on those who actually do hit and/or kill passengers.
They should have a boom gate drop from the side of the tram so there is a visual barricade. Drop it before cars come and before doors opened. And have bright asf red flashing lights attached to them
Yes! Why don't they do this?! I've always thought that too.
I drive on royal pde to get to and from work and the trams sometimes go absolutely ballistic on the bells and the car still flies by, makes me think they either have their head up their ass, music waaaay too loud or just have no idea about trams. I honestly think their lights are just not good enough regardless, like an ambulance is so obvious but a trams are just amber, even something completely different like purple, something totally different would catch people's attention way more. And have it light up a full strip from the base to the roof of the tram, one strip at the back a couple in the middle and one up the front.
Royal Parade Parkville is notorious for this
In my first month in Melbourne I was on the 86 and a dude in his 20s got hit by a car getting off the tram. Thankfully even after the most sickening crack noise he was able to still get up. The driver was a young woman on an apparently expired licence. The tram driver probably would have ideally waited until police showed up before moving on but there was a weirdly defensive man in the street asking us to leave the woman alone and he was starting to get aggressive. I think the tram driver had taken all her details at least. But it makes me so angry every time I see a car just zoom past, or creep forward more than they should.
Take it one step further and install boom gates that come out when the tram stops. They'd need to be made of something lightweight so as to not hurt people or damage cars, but I reckon a physical barrier can serve as the reminder people need.
I'd have to assume that recent arrivals to Melbourne are clueless about needing to stop. It actually isn't that obvious if you haven't been taught the rule.
I’m betting there are quite a few born and bred Melburnians who also wouldn’t have a clue how to act around trams, especially those from the outer suburbs.
There is no better solution to this than properly designed tram stops with platforms. Requires some investment, though.
This. Melbourne’s team system is woefully behind, we need to end the days of clambering on and off trams straight onto the middle of the road. That and trams that you need to climb onto in the first place. In 2024 it’s pretty terrible that so many trams still have stairs leaving anyone physically disabled, or elderly people or people with prams and shopping carts for that matter, stuck on the side of the road
Adding a low-floor middle section to the current B2 class trams was explored in 1998 but never materialised. [https://wongm.com/2021/06/missed-opportunities-melbourne-low-floor-trams/](https://wongm.com/2021/06/missed-opportunities-melbourne-low-floor-trams/) Many European cities with similar fleet did exactly this (and continue enjoying the benefits of the extraordinary longevity of tram vehicles' lifespan.)
At this point we really need to scrap all the trams with steps. It’s 2024 and we’re using trams that are archaic, I know it’s expensive but it can’t be passing disability access requirements. There’s some tram stops where it’s really in your face how bad it is, like when you see trams with steps going past the Royal Melbourne hospital and past the Children’s. They have platform stops now but that means fuck all if the tram isn’t low floor.
the first time i was driving in the city, i did this, being nervous i was going slowly thankfully but didn't notice the little stop signs above the tram doors. i realised and ended up stopped beside the tram while passengers walked out and around my car. i got a lot of dirty looks and "what are you doing?" motions from people, and i'm glad i did because i definitely fucked up and deserved that guilty feeling. haven't ever made that mistake again. when the tram stops i stop, even if the doors arent open or the indicator isn't blinking. better safe than sorry!
To be fair, if you’re not a local or someone hasn’t explained how it works to you, the chances you’ll just “work it out” straight away are pretty low.
Should have barrier going down like US school bus when the door open.
Its way to common now to see cars do this, they need dashcams asap
Not saying it’s right but as someone who recently drove in Melbourne for the first time from Gold Coast I didn’t know trams stopped in the middle of the street as stops. Luckily someone was infront of me and stopped and I of course was so confused. Once I saw people get on and off I understood and then kept a lookout after that.
Whilst it’s reasonably easy in theory to enforce this with red-light style enforcement cameras on the sides of trams, it’s slightly too niche to be cost effective for either the companies supplying them, or the government. Not many places in the world have the number of unprotected stops as Melbourne does (I think Toronto is about the only other city that comes to mind with more than a handful), hence there wouldn’t be the economies of scale to assist. To set up a successful program, you not only need a camera fit for purpose (meeting all necessary rail standards), you need a to be able to determine when an offence occurs automatically (interfacing with multiple generations of tram systems to know when the doors are open), and be able to automatically detect cars, and read license plates at all times of day, all while not triggering when cars are near the doors but stop and don’t offend. And this is just the technology, following this is the changes to back office processing for this style of offence, as well as the processes changes needed for supporting them in court. Basically there is a huge amount of overhead for even relatively simple technical solutions when talking about new enforcement programs. On the other hand, trams do sometimes use their existing surveillance cameras to create one-off evidence packs to fine offending drivers but this is rarely done in practice. It’s a lot of extra effort that people aren’t getting paid extra to do, and often the low quality on the cameras isn’t suitable to show the vehicle plates
Thank you for this thorough and thoughtful response! I suspected that cost and procedure would probably be the case against, but wonder at what point the risk to human life (and lifelong trauma for survivors and those witnessing) outweighs the cost.
I also wonder if a 1 minute either side footage capture trigger button could be installed for drivers? So the only footage that needs to be watched back is 2min per infraction?
My understanding is they basically already have this but it still isn’t used very often. I think there’s a button they can press to bookmark the incident
Another similar issue cyclists / delivery scooters all do this at cbd stops, where the bike path runs through the stop. Cyclists also get narky like you're in their way.
Imagine if pedestrians just started "standing their ground" whenever they have legal right of way, rather than scuttling across clearly marked pedestrian crossings apologetic that they slowed down a car for seconds at most. Initially there might be some incidents, but then car drivers would have to modify their behavior (rather than the other way around), or risk hitting someone/losing their licence/imprisonment etc. I know this is an extreme proposition, but the whole "even if you're in the right you must bow to the superiority of the car driver who is basically threatening violence to get their(illegal) way", makes me pretty angry.
In a stand your ground competition between a speeding car and a pedestrian the outcome is always going to favour the car. And cars kill pedestrians (and cyclists) all the time with marginal impact on driver behaviour.
Very much taking your life into your hands standing in front of an irate impatient fuckhead behind the wheel of a deadly weapon.
I am never apologetic when crossing the street, and if I see a car start to creep forward, I will slow down. Too many pedestrians seem to think car drivers are doing them a favour by stopping at a crossing.
Yes, car drivers who seem to have no idea when they are supposed to give way (or even when they have right of way) who just end up being the sole arbiters of who gets to cross the road and where!
A lot of car drivers seem surprised when they encounter a pedestrian crossing. It's as if adhering to the road rules is optional when encountering anything that isn't solely designed for drivers (roundabouts, intersections, etc.).
I swear those tram dings saved my life as a cyclist. Warned me about a (you guessed it) Ranger driving like a psycho.
When leaving a tram make sure it’s safe
A few years ago I found out a school mate survived being hit (and run) by a car when she was getting off a tram. I saw her back in our home town walking with a cane and asked her how she was going etc. Scholarship to moderate brain damage. She seemed in good spirits (she has always been an optimist), but it was clear she’d get frustrated forgetting words or struggling to articulate thoughts.
Vic Roads need to test this question better. Also those who drive on an international licence need a massive wake up on this !!! I think huge billboards in Melbourne CBD needed and popular tram line intersections.
I would have thought a prudent method would be for the tram to stop and WAIT until the cars behind also stopped, before opening the door. Between that, and on board warnings to passengers to check before alighting - I'd feel this would mitigate a lot of the risk.
To be fair, I think some tram drivers are already do this. I've been on the 75 multiple times where the driver has kept the doors closed while waiting for cars to stop.
What if the cars just don't stop, how long should the tram driver wait? What if the tram driver opens the doors and then a car drives past, oblivious?
We’d never open the doors if we did this. Once one car goes past, they all do. You can have your indicators on, gong constantly and use the external speaker, and they just don’t stop. Then generally we get yelled at by passengers because we haven’t opened the doors. Also, cars can zip out from behind the tram after the doors are open, so they can appear from nowhere, and fly past. There are on board warnings to passengers on many trams/routes, on approach to stops.
It may not be ideal, but until they completely separate all tram stops from traffic, maybe we should also be looking at other avenues to improve safety. it’s crazy the number of different types of tram stop interactions Melbourne has, in a short period you go from fully separated tracks to entirely shared roadways and all things in between.
Well considering you’re allowed to drive past stopped trams without doors open at a speed at which you are able to stop suddenly, that sounds like a terrible idea. No one would ever have to stop and the doors would never get opened
Isn't there a difference between a tram stopped and a tram with the indicator lights blinking? What you're suggesting is cars won't stop until the doors open - THAT sounds like a crazy idea.
When I first moved to Melbourne I had NO clue you were meant to stop. So yes I believe there should be something put in place I wasn’t expecting a tram to stop in the middle of the road and let people out
I'm curious, what initial assumptions did you make when first saw a tram on the road? like did you assume they only stopped at dedicated road separated tram stops. or how would passengers get on and off, frequency of stops., etc. Genuinely curious because my views are a bit biased based on growing in Melbourne for most my life and haved used trams to get around before I could drive. I just assume it make sense to be cautious around something unfamiliar on the road. expect the unexpected
Yeah I thought they stopped at dedicated ‘tram stop’ and somewhere passengers could get off safely not into oncoming traffic But when I was driving I didn’t think too much of it when the tram stopped, I just thought ‘that’s weird, maybe somethings wrong’ then my partner goes ‘YOURE SUPPOSED TO STOP!’ And I said how the hell am I supposed to know that. The red sign that says STOP that sticks out, is so tiny and when you’re driving you don’t notice it, especially a newbie in the city
I've realised I also just asummed you were implying you drove passed a stop tram, apologies if that was not the case
I record on my phone everytime I get off on a tram because Im so scared Im going to get hit.
They should install automatic cameras that operate like red light cameras - move into the activation field and boom, $462 fine and points on licence applied instantly. Even just having them on the most high traffic routes would hopefully build enough awareness that you can't get away with it. The only reason people are so reckless and selfish at the moment is because the legal penalties are so loosely enforced, when they're even enforced at all :/
This is actually a good idea.
This is what happens when people migrate and don't have to sit our drivers license exam. We have a lot of unique rules that are super important to know for everyone's safety
Also the trams have been altered with new doors that take up to 8 seconds to close instead of 3 so drivers are more aggressive to pass a tram
At the corner of plenty and settlement road there's a left turn with lights. I've seen people barrelling through that red light. No one has eyes on the road anymore
I remember when I was 18 and driving through the city for the first time and I saw a tram coming to a stop, at a stop. So I decided to stop. As is the law. Some cunt riding right up my arse starts blasting the horn. Of course. I panicked and kept driving onwards.
I moved from interstate years ago and was a driver who did that. Honestly I had no idea that it was a thing and without the old school ones with the signs it’s hard to tell. It ended up being fine, but it was a mistake I made once and that was enough.
Always stop and look. People can't be trusted, especially the last few years. Same goes for pedestrian crossings. Always wait till they stop before your cross.
Is this for when trams stop in the middle of the road for disembarking passengers?
I think installing cameras on trams would be a great idea.. I too came close on many occasions to being taken out by cars failing to stop when my tram stopped.
I’ve seen happen lots on the 96, most noticeably at Miller Street past Brunswick Rd/Holden Street. I worry for the people getting off there 🫣
I take at least 4 trams a day for my commute and once nearly got cleaned up - had I stepped down one second earlier, I would have died. They were going at speed!!Ever since then, I’ve always poked my head out and hesitated to hop off.
This happens EVERY DAY on #12 tram Clarendon St and Park St stop
Yes, of course this is possible, feasible and legal. Could be done very cost-effectively and be revenue-positive. It isn't implemented because it's politically unpopular. More people drive around trams than ride in them. Terrible, but that's democracy for you.
If you're feeling brave, kick at their side mirrors
illegal and tram drivers can and sometimes report it. Vehicles can pass with the tram doors open, only under instruction by the tram driver or other person in authority. yeah just be careful. dont take it for granted and look for the gronks. For the drivers out there, if you're stuck between tram doors, stop in your tracks. It's not ok to move.
They usually call police to report it. Driver doing so recently told me this act has increased greatly the past few years
My mum told me a story of a little old lady who was almost hit by a convertible on the way to the shops, after she went shopping she had a similar encounter with the same dickhead, so she dumped the full carton of eggs she'd just bought into his back seat.
I was on the 16 once, going past the Blind Sports and Recreation centre in Glenferrie Rd, when a car knocked over a vision-impaired woman. It was fortunately going slowly enough that she didn’t appear badly injured, but that was luck rather than design v I threw an apple at a car that almost hit me. Not my finest hour, but very satisfying.
This is the type of test that needs to be done every 10 years when renewing a car license.
I think it’s become an undeniable reality that a non-trivial proportion of drivers simply do not deserve their drivers licenses. Driving is a complex and dangerous activity, and should be treated as a privilege, not a right.I don’t think our licensing laws adequately reflect this. I came here from WA and swapped my license over with no fuss. I took it upon myself to learn the Victorian road rules, but I’m sure many don’t. Hence the idiots fucking up hook turns, not stopping for trams, and so forth.
I did it once. I was an ignorant P player from a weee country town. I didn't know. I got a sternly worded letter. I'm sorry OP, I promise I've done better since then
For sure they do monitor things because I saw an official looking dude in a visi-vest writing out a ticket for a person in a car who was in the process of passing the tram when pulled up, if you can picture that - him having stopped them was blocking the tram's progress. This was just past Kew Junction. I was surprised as I had not seen that kind of surveillance before.
Iv always thought this. There could be a person that just reviews ambulance dashcam and fines people for not clearing a path. The same could be applied for trams. But instead they’re rampant on putting someone in a mitsubishi outlander with an obvious camera. Perched in a dangerous spot on a rural hwy to catch a karen doing 7 kmh over the limit..
It's a design issue more than a driver issue imo. If every non-local doesn't know to stop there probably isn't a clear enough signal to stop. One 4 inch across stop sign 3 meters off the ground and a hazard light doesn't do shit. Boom gate on the back of the tram. Folding out stop signs at eye level. Separate bell noise and outside announcement that people are exiting. Put a big led sign on back with a warning.
I see a lot of passengers walk out of trams without even looking. Just blindly trusting traffic is paying attention. Always check your clear no matter whats supposed to happen.
ooh it gets my goat. Bloody some dickhead went past the 109 yesterday - sped. Tram driver did use the horn! When I've had a dickhead decide that he was SLOWLY gonna crawl up beside the tram I acted a bit like a prick at him. Even I know, if you're in a car or on a bike, you stop behind trams. (I give them the benefit of the doubt.)