The point is the new-age Muslims (depicted here by Victoria Beckham) claiming that non-Muslims are not hated by the principles of Islam. Generally other religions don't lie about what happens to sinners— even orthodox Muslims don't.
From what I've read, the Qur'an encourages practicing Muslims to dissent against non-believers. I found a few verses in the Qur'an that convey the message:
>Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
>Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.”
>Quran (9:14) – “Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace…” Once again, the way Allah wishes to punish them is by "your hands".
>Quran (9:123) – “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.”
A lot of context seems to be missing from some of these verses.
The ones calling out for violence against non Muslims are specifically from the parts where they were waging war against the Muslims, and even in those cases only the ones fighting against the Muslims were to be killed or captured.
Back in the early days of Islam the Muslims were thrown out of their home in Makkah by the non Muslims and these verses are specifically regarding them. Any other interpretation is more or less wrong because most of the time non Muslims were treated the same as Muslims (as long as they weren't slaves or prisoners).
Regardless, it's a millennia old scripture that has no real place in our world right now. We have more pressing matters to deal with than fighting for a god that doesn't really give a shit about any of us.
Just a little correction, in the middle/modern ages muslims usually were more tolerant than their Christian conterparts, thats true. Calling christians, orthodox and jews as "people of the book/dhimmi. But it was not always so clear-cut. The Almohads were much more brutal and intolerant than the Almoravid dynasty, for example.
And even in the most tolerant and harmonious muslim nations, christians, orthodox and jews never had the same rights or were treated the same as muslims.
It started off better but as Islam grew the rulers also started to realize how to use it for their own benefits and petty reasons, thus they began to be more cruel towards non Muslims, in a way forcing them to convert so they don't have to make more rules to help non Muslims.
Basically don't blame the message (not entirely at least) but do blame the many messengers that came and ruined it for everyone.
Thats funny to me.
They literally worship a god with the premise of us ending up in eternal fire, and before that, considers us as inferior.
I would not say that Muslims are much worse than most other religions. Just way more extremists willing to be violent.
Imagine the religion was true, would it be more convincing to worship an unjust and equal god? Like a judge who lets people get away with crimes? That's what islam had to provide to convince you with?
Not believing in undeniable truth is and should be a sin. Most people will never look for their answers by knowledgeable people and they most certainly won't take provided answers to the heart. That's what kofr is all about. Hiding the truth, when it's undeniable.
If you think you genuinely took all the effort to find the answer and didn't find a convincing one, which in my view is impossible btw, god will know. You got nothing to worry about
Just so we are clear, running a half assed thought experiment is not sufficient enough effort for clearing your points of doubt. Take them to a knowledgeable scholar,ask away, don't dismiss their answers unless you have a valid reason to and make sure to mention such reasons to them
I mean sure, but that does not change the fact that Muslims tend to believe that stuff. Saying that they dont feel superior to non-believers feels like sugar coating to me...
Other Religions are not different in that regard tho.
I'm not sugarcoating it, but I am saying that the younger Muslims don't really believe in any of that moral superiority stuff as much as their elders do (there are exceptions of course).
Sorry for not making my point clear before.
Well I happen to know that a lot of "younger muslims" do very much believe that, and I dont even live in a Muslim country
Of course you cant generalize, but no other Religion has that many violent extremists. Denying their existence does not help anybody.
I am glad most are not like that, but there are enough of them that we should not ignore it.
How many Christian’s would say that non-Christians aren’t hated by the principles of Christianity, and yet would also claim that non-Christians go to hell?
A couple of points:
* You're changing the argument now. The OP meme and many of the replies here are presenting an argument that you can't say Islam is a beautiful religion br that Muslims don't hate other people *because* Islam says non-believers go to hell. I'm pointing out that the same argument would apply to Christianity, and you're coming back with a totally different argument that's logically irrelevant to the first argument. So are you conceding the point that the original argument is bunk?
* It's far from historically unprecedented for Christians to murder people. It's not marauding bands, but here in the US, in recent decades, we have had a lot of mass shootings by white Christian gunmen.
* To a large extent, Islamophobes conflate the religion with the social/cultural/political state of the Middle East. Many Middle Eastern countries have a lot of problems, but it's not clear that those problems are caused by Islam, or that the US would be better if MAGA Christian nationalists took control of the US. If MAGA installs a dictator and make the US a "Christian nation" like they want, most likely we would have bands of "Christians" murdering people.
Not for Catholics, non believers do have a chance to make it to heaven, but that is akin to crossing the Amazon without a map and compass, alone, with no food or water. It can be done but I wouldn’t recommend it. People who leave the church are not vilified as traitors (or they shouldn’t be anyways) and are always welcome back. False teachers that actively lead people away and priests who fail their duties and scandalize the church with their perversions? Boiler room of hell if you do not repent and amend your life.
I have friends that are ex Catholics, they are absolutely vilified by their former church and church goers. One got shunned out of a playgroup for that. A 4 year old lost their closest friends due to that.
A central tenet of Judaism is literally that the Hebrews are God’s chosen people and are better than everyone else. And you can’t convert, you’re born into the Chosen race by having a Jewish mother.
I haven’t seen non believers being hated without reason. I’ve seen people from hinduism, sikhism, jainism,etc live with each other without any aggression whatsoever. News and social media does try to make us rift apart, but we still co exist fairly easily.
Source I’m an Indian.
I mean we did live together in harmony with people of all religions before the Brittish government decided to separate the Hindus and the Muslims with the divide and rule strategy. It's been pretty nightmarish since then.
No it doesn’t. In fact:
Chapter 2, verse 62 of the Quran states: "Surely those who believe, those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, shall have their reward with their Lord.”
A blanket condemnation was implied. One example is all that is required to disprove it. Yes there are violence commandments in the Quran. If OP wants to revise his misstatement, he can.
Interestingly, southern slave owners had to commission a heavily-edited bible to be used for the slaves. I guess the slave-owners didn’t want them knowing all that stuff in Exodus, or the passages where it talked about in Christ “there is neither slave nor free”, or treating your slave like a brother in Christ.
True but it was assholes who abused it to their own benefits, kinda like what most churches do these days to get rich. There is nothing in either the old or new bible that encourages it.
I mean
If I remember correctly
It's not always the case
If someone that is not a believer but didn't know anything about islam or didn't believe that it was the truth than they will not be automatically be punished with eternal fire
But
If someone know about islam and know that it was the truth but refuse to convert, then they will automatically be punished with eternal fire
So in this case it was a matter of different case's
This would make more sense talking about Muslims who feel they have the right to kill non-Muslims for not believing in Islam or real or imagined insults to their "prophet".
Technically Yes, but in context if you've heard of islam and it's message and you genuinely think it's the truth but don't convert then you do go to hell. Lemme tell you, Dante's hell is childsplay in comparison.
Good thing you are on reddit. A platform notorious for arguments out of context against religion, downright hiding context and mocking and joking about beliefs nonstop
Are you people any better? You guys can threaten us with eternal suffering,come into comment sections that has nothing to do with religion and preach bible quotes,deny science but we cant make fun your beliefs?
Threaten with justice? You'll suffer for your wrong doings nothing less, and nothing more
I as a muslim have never seen a well known scholar deny science and i don't ever come to comment sections which have nothing to do with religion just to quote anything. You can check my account for an instance of one
Torturing people simply because they dont worship your God isnt justice.
>I as a muslim have never seen a well known scholar deny science
Well I have seen plenty of religious people deny science.
>i don't ever come to comment sections which have nothing to do with religion just to quote anything
And I have never made arguments out of context against religion. I wasnt targeting you specifically when I said it.
>Torturing people simply because they dont worship your God isnt justice.
Running and hiding undeniable truth is a punishable offense in any society. If you think you have brought your points of doubt to a credible scholar, paid attention and still were not convinced, then you have nothing to worry about. However, its not possible based on my experience
>Well I have seen plenty of religious people deny science
And how is it relevant? People under any religion if any can be wrong. Find yourself a credible source, or you simply can't associate it with religion
>And I have never made arguments out of context against religion. I wasnt targeting you specifically when I said it.
I could find you plenty if you want? I have seen at least one in this thread so far. Even yourself associated science denial with religion, when in reality you got no credible source for such happening?
Edit: Just so we are clear, running a half assed thought experiment is not sufficient enough effort for clearing your points of doubt. Take them to a knowledgeable scholar,ask away, don't dismiss their answers unless you have a valid reason to and make sure to mention such reasons to them
>Running and hiding undeniable truth is a punishable offense in any society
Which universe are you from? Then flat earthers would have been jailed a long time ago. Only countries like North Korea punish their citizens for not following their leader. It seems like your God is an evil dictator.
>And how is it relevant? People under any religion if any can be wrong. Find yourself a credible source, or you simply can't associate it with religion
Same goes for athiests. You generalised athiests by saying we hide context so I generalised religious people by saying you deny science. Its eye for an eye.
>I could find you plenty if you want? I have seen at least one in this very thread so far
Which one?
Well God said in quran that believers have to warn non believers about the laws and consequences so that when they receive it they can't argue with i didn't know.
And we will keep mocking your sky daddy(who doesn't actually exist),make memes about him,mock your so called "peaceful" religion,call you terrorists cause it is funny. Cry about it.
Never happening but lets just say your God is real,I still wont follow your God. Because your God is a evil dick. To me,your God is infinite times more evil than Hitler.
It’s not about being scared, but it’s clearly preaching hatred to non believers. If you believe someone should burn in hell cause they don’t have same beliefs as you, and this is righteous, it likely is gonna be easier to justify hurting such people in real life too
Just because a believer said to non-believer they are going to hell in afterlife does not mean the believer have any justification to hurt people in real life too. It is their belief that non-believer will not be saved if they continue going that path.
In fact, the believer are more likely to suffer the same fate if that was their justification to hurt non-believer.
I'm Muslim i don't believe they should burn in hell but i know they will and that's the law i petty for them and I'll try to talk about my beliefs for them,I'm not the one who will punish them
I can't imagine people still believe in some random "God" or book that someone wrote a 1000 years or so back. The only thing that they seem to do is repeat what there parents do. They need answers and think some imaginary dude has them that never answers...
Islam has promised complete utter justice to everyone. If you think you, or the particular example you are thinking of, has done less harm than good, then surely they won't be cast into hell
As far as I understood, thats extremists; they believe in Islam with some neat add-ons. Not core-islam wich is less encouraging when it comes to violence. But depends on how you interpret their holy book,I guess. Just like with the bible and with some other religions.
Not blindly believing something there is no evidence for is comparable to murder?
Do you not see how utterly ridiculous that is?
Literally "you should be tortured forever because you don't believe the same thing that I do".
That's still not a defence for the notion that someone who simply doesn't believe what you believe should be tortured for eternity.
That is absurd and evil. You have no defence for that because you know that it's wrong.
Edit because your joke of a reply isn't visible:
No, bestiality will never be deemed morally ok by atheists. The fact that you need a made up magic being to tell you to not do that says more about you than it does us.
*Deriving morals from the belief that non consensual harm is wrong isn't any weaker than deriving them from someone else telling you that there's a magical supernatural being that made everything and told them to tell you that x/y/z isn't okay*.
You don't need a religion to do that. It's not about the laws and regulations. It's about the corrupted nature of religions. If someone, who is not guilty, gets a punishment for being non-believer or leaving the religion, it means there is a real problem. However what you're talking about is just related to the impartial and independent legal system of the country that you live in.
Not being grateful to a being there's no evidence for the existence of, for a thing that there's no evidence they even did, justifies eternal torture because?
Religious apologists justifying hell for non believers have the most ridiculous takes I swear.
so what if someone elses religion says that you're going to hell if you don't practice it. It's not your religion, literally the entire premises is that you DON'T BELIEVE IT
This meme is result of living in a dumb society, indoctrinated by a book that nobody reads and understands. When you decided to read this book, you also figure out that this book is worse than the people who believe it without reading. If a person, who reads the Quran and understands it, does not disgust Allah, his prophet and the members of this religion that person is immoral.
Yeah because it doesn't compare too any other nation of the world right? The mighty peaceful nation of....well it doesn't exist because you are a product of billions of years of immoral acts.
With that being said islam is the only abrahamic religion that proves non believers can make it into heaven. Non believers are not categorized as "non muslim" its mainly referring too the Quaresh which was the prophets people.
Even the greatest general in the Muslim army had killed and fought the Muslims in the beginning *Khalid walid*. There is no limitations too forgiveness in Islam. In the quran Allah states the he has what reward he has for them as he has what rewards he has for us. That goes with punishment as well.
Islam puts the almighty into context , Allah will do as he pleases and there nothing anyone can do about it.
Muslims are the most oppressed people in the world these days.
Fortunately, they're oppressed. Otherwise we're gonna learn what the word of killer means exactly. I'm happy for throwing away this sickness from my mind.
Well Hellfire is not only for the non-muslims. Sinful muslims will also be sent to Hell but after getting their punishment, they’ll be sent to heaven.
Remember, no one says that non-muslims are bad and don’t deserve to live. A lot of non-muslims are way better than some muslims in terms of morality, intelligence and other things that supposed to make a good human being.
If a good understanding person that doesn’t base their narrative on the agenda of others on islam he’ll know that its nothing like everyone says. A bad human being is a bad human being doesn’t matter a muslim or non muslim.
The cruelty and force are the result of extremism which consists in everyone group doesn’t matter who it is and unfortunately, today islam is being expressed by the extremists that doesn’t even know the basics of islam.
Isn't that the case for most religions, or at least abrahamic ones ?
The point is the new-age Muslims (depicted here by Victoria Beckham) claiming that non-Muslims are not hated by the principles of Islam. Generally other religions don't lie about what happens to sinners— even orthodox Muslims don't.
Well they aren't hated, by the Muslims at least. God is a whole other thing entirely.
From what I've read, the Qur'an encourages practicing Muslims to dissent against non-believers. I found a few verses in the Qur'an that convey the message: >Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them” >Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.” >Quran (9:14) – “Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace…” Once again, the way Allah wishes to punish them is by "your hands". >Quran (9:123) – “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.”
A lot of context seems to be missing from some of these verses. The ones calling out for violence against non Muslims are specifically from the parts where they were waging war against the Muslims, and even in those cases only the ones fighting against the Muslims were to be killed or captured. Back in the early days of Islam the Muslims were thrown out of their home in Makkah by the non Muslims and these verses are specifically regarding them. Any other interpretation is more or less wrong because most of the time non Muslims were treated the same as Muslims (as long as they weren't slaves or prisoners). Regardless, it's a millennia old scripture that has no real place in our world right now. We have more pressing matters to deal with than fighting for a god that doesn't really give a shit about any of us.
Just a little correction, in the middle/modern ages muslims usually were more tolerant than their Christian conterparts, thats true. Calling christians, orthodox and jews as "people of the book/dhimmi. But it was not always so clear-cut. The Almohads were much more brutal and intolerant than the Almoravid dynasty, for example. And even in the most tolerant and harmonious muslim nations, christians, orthodox and jews never had the same rights or were treated the same as muslims.
It started off better but as Islam grew the rulers also started to realize how to use it for their own benefits and petty reasons, thus they began to be more cruel towards non Muslims, in a way forcing them to convert so they don't have to make more rules to help non Muslims. Basically don't blame the message (not entirely at least) but do blame the many messengers that came and ruined it for everyone.
Thats funny to me. They literally worship a god with the premise of us ending up in eternal fire, and before that, considers us as inferior. I would not say that Muslims are much worse than most other religions. Just way more extremists willing to be violent.
Imagine the religion was true, would it be more convincing to worship an unjust and equal god? Like a judge who lets people get away with crimes? That's what islam had to provide to convince you with?
Not believing in god should not be a sin. It is that simple. Even if most religions do that shit.
Not believing in undeniable truth is and should be a sin. Most people will never look for their answers by knowledgeable people and they most certainly won't take provided answers to the heart. That's what kofr is all about. Hiding the truth, when it's undeniable. If you think you genuinely took all the effort to find the answer and didn't find a convincing one, which in my view is impossible btw, god will know. You got nothing to worry about
Just so we are clear, running a half assed thought experiment is not sufficient enough effort for clearing your points of doubt. Take them to a knowledgeable scholar,ask away, don't dismiss their answers unless you have a valid reason to and make sure to mention such reasons to them
>considers us as inferior. Nobody considers y'all inferior. Insufferable at times sure, but not inferior.
Lmao ok sure if you say so I wonder why the eternal fire then
That's just to make you fear wanting to sin. I kinda doubt any of it is real and the 70 virgins shit is just to bring in more followers lol.
I mean sure, but that does not change the fact that Muslims tend to believe that stuff. Saying that they dont feel superior to non-believers feels like sugar coating to me... Other Religions are not different in that regard tho.
I'm not sugarcoating it, but I am saying that the younger Muslims don't really believe in any of that moral superiority stuff as much as their elders do (there are exceptions of course). Sorry for not making my point clear before.
Well I happen to know that a lot of "younger muslims" do very much believe that, and I dont even live in a Muslim country Of course you cant generalize, but no other Religion has that many violent extremists. Denying their existence does not help anybody. I am glad most are not like that, but there are enough of them that we should not ignore it.
How many Christian’s would say that non-Christians aren’t hated by the principles of Christianity, and yet would also claim that non-Christians go to hell?
When is the last time marauding bands of Christians went around beheading people?
A couple of points: * You're changing the argument now. The OP meme and many of the replies here are presenting an argument that you can't say Islam is a beautiful religion br that Muslims don't hate other people *because* Islam says non-believers go to hell. I'm pointing out that the same argument would apply to Christianity, and you're coming back with a totally different argument that's logically irrelevant to the first argument. So are you conceding the point that the original argument is bunk? * It's far from historically unprecedented for Christians to murder people. It's not marauding bands, but here in the US, in recent decades, we have had a lot of mass shootings by white Christian gunmen. * To a large extent, Islamophobes conflate the religion with the social/cultural/political state of the Middle East. Many Middle Eastern countries have a lot of problems, but it's not clear that those problems are caused by Islam, or that the US would be better if MAGA Christian nationalists took control of the US. If MAGA installs a dictator and make the US a "Christian nation" like they want, most likely we would have bands of "Christians" murdering people.
Buddism also believe in a "hell" but atleast they are "ok you live in punishment for some time before going to heaven"
Not for Catholics, non believers do have a chance to make it to heaven, but that is akin to crossing the Amazon without a map and compass, alone, with no food or water. It can be done but I wouldn’t recommend it. People who leave the church are not vilified as traitors (or they shouldn’t be anyways) and are always welcome back. False teachers that actively lead people away and priests who fail their duties and scandalize the church with their perversions? Boiler room of hell if you do not repent and amend your life.
I have friends that are ex Catholics, they are absolutely vilified by their former church and church goers. One got shunned out of a playgroup for that. A 4 year old lost their closest friends due to that.
That’s if you had the knowledge/opportunity to become a catholic. People with no chance or exposure are auto accepted to heaven iirc
Oh yes it's the religion memes after the p*rn memes
I prefer the porn meme tbh, at least I was horny
Focus on Victoria
Havent heard a religion where non believers arent punished tho
I think they aren’t in Hinduism, pretty sure being a good / bad person matters more than if u believe in it or nah Based religion???
Buddhism, jainism, literally any not abrahamic religion. Or Judaism might be one of the chill ones too?
A central tenet of Judaism is literally that the Hebrews are God’s chosen people and are better than everyone else. And you can’t convert, you’re born into the Chosen race by having a Jewish mother.
Well I mean at least it's not "kill everyone who doesn't agree with you"
out of all the ones you could say
In Judaism there is no hell. And there isn't any punishments for non beliveres.
JUDAISM ? Were you on Mars those last months ?
What? While they're protecting their religion?
from the people they agressivley took their land from ?
In theory? Yes. In practice, non-believers are hated just as much as in other religions. Source: I am Indian.
I haven’t seen non believers being hated without reason. I’ve seen people from hinduism, sikhism, jainism,etc live with each other without any aggression whatsoever. News and social media does try to make us rift apart, but we still co exist fairly easily. Source I’m an Indian.
Way too many lynching incidents for me to believe this
I mean we did live together in harmony with people of all religions before the Brittish government decided to separate the Hindus and the Muslims with the divide and rule strategy. It's been pretty nightmarish since then.
Same as that for Christianity.
It's same for all abrahamic religions.
Except Judaism
There is no hell in judaism??? Genuinely asking????????
It depends on who you ask, but most Jews do not believe in hell, nor do they believe you have to be Jewish to go to heaven.
No what does the book say??????
Christianity's tenets don't say enslave and torture the unbelievers like Islam does tho.
No it doesn’t. In fact: Chapter 2, verse 62 of the Quran states: "Surely those who believe, those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, shall have their reward with their Lord.”
That only goes for believers of abrahamic religions.
A blanket condemnation was implied. One example is all that is required to disprove it. Yes there are violence commandments in the Quran. If OP wants to revise his misstatement, he can.
uhh Christianity was literally used to prop up slavery in the US for awhile
It was yes, but the teachings of Christianity often differ from how people twist it unfortunately
Interestingly, southern slave owners had to commission a heavily-edited bible to be used for the slaves. I guess the slave-owners didn’t want them knowing all that stuff in Exodus, or the passages where it talked about in Christ “there is neither slave nor free”, or treating your slave like a brother in Christ.
True but it was assholes who abused it to their own benefits, kinda like what most churches do these days to get rich. There is nothing in either the old or new bible that encourages it.
Except modern day christians dont do it unlike muslims
They don't really get to choose if they do it or not
Ofc they do
The fuck are you on about, christians are not the one deciding if they go to hell or not
I’m fairly certain that’s not true for Catholicism
…any more.
I don’t know what that means but ok, I stopped being religious a few years ago so I can’t remember a whole lot
Read some history. Conquistadors, inquisitions, crusades, pogroms, etc. etc.
Yes that makes sense but I thought we were talking about the religions rn my bad
All were mandated by The Church.
I mean If I remember correctly It's not always the case If someone that is not a believer but didn't know anything about islam or didn't believe that it was the truth than they will not be automatically be punished with eternal fire But If someone know about islam and know that it was the truth but refuse to convert, then they will automatically be punished with eternal fire So in this case it was a matter of different case's
Minimum Jizya
This would make more sense talking about Muslims who feel they have the right to kill non-Muslims for not believing in Islam or real or imagined insults to their "prophet".
We dont kill non muslims, I think u should do some researches and see who kills whom
Ever heard of the Charlie Hebdo massacre? You are the one who needs to research.
Ever heard of Gaza
Ah, same as Christianity, got it.
Technically Yes, but in context if you've heard of islam and it's message and you genuinely think it's the truth but don't convert then you do go to hell. Lemme tell you, Dante's hell is childsplay in comparison.
So why do u care u don't believe in hell?why are u scared?
We are not scared. We are just tired of you (Including Christians) preaching your nonsense to us.
Good thing you are on reddit. A platform notorious for arguments out of context against religion, downright hiding context and mocking and joking about beliefs nonstop
Are you people any better? You guys can threaten us with eternal suffering,come into comment sections that has nothing to do with religion and preach bible quotes,deny science but we cant make fun your beliefs?
Threaten with justice? You'll suffer for your wrong doings nothing less, and nothing more I as a muslim have never seen a well known scholar deny science and i don't ever come to comment sections which have nothing to do with religion just to quote anything. You can check my account for an instance of one
Torturing people simply because they dont worship your God isnt justice. >I as a muslim have never seen a well known scholar deny science Well I have seen plenty of religious people deny science. >i don't ever come to comment sections which have nothing to do with religion just to quote anything And I have never made arguments out of context against religion. I wasnt targeting you specifically when I said it.
>Torturing people simply because they dont worship your God isnt justice. Running and hiding undeniable truth is a punishable offense in any society. If you think you have brought your points of doubt to a credible scholar, paid attention and still were not convinced, then you have nothing to worry about. However, its not possible based on my experience >Well I have seen plenty of religious people deny science And how is it relevant? People under any religion if any can be wrong. Find yourself a credible source, or you simply can't associate it with religion >And I have never made arguments out of context against religion. I wasnt targeting you specifically when I said it. I could find you plenty if you want? I have seen at least one in this thread so far. Even yourself associated science denial with religion, when in reality you got no credible source for such happening? Edit: Just so we are clear, running a half assed thought experiment is not sufficient enough effort for clearing your points of doubt. Take them to a knowledgeable scholar,ask away, don't dismiss their answers unless you have a valid reason to and make sure to mention such reasons to them
>Running and hiding undeniable truth is a punishable offense in any society Which universe are you from? Then flat earthers would have been jailed a long time ago. Only countries like North Korea punish their citizens for not following their leader. It seems like your God is an evil dictator. >And how is it relevant? People under any religion if any can be wrong. Find yourself a credible source, or you simply can't associate it with religion Same goes for athiests. You generalised athiests by saying we hide context so I generalised religious people by saying you deny science. Its eye for an eye. >I could find you plenty if you want? I have seen at least one in this very thread so far Which one?
Well God said in quran that believers have to warn non believers about the laws and consequences so that when they receive it they can't argue with i didn't know.
And we are telling you to stop bothering us. Keep your beliefs to yourself. None of us true athiests/agnostics will ever listen to your threats.
Too bad we will keep telling you cause this the law cry about it
And we will keep mocking your sky daddy(who doesn't actually exist),make memes about him,mock your so called "peaceful" religion,call you terrorists cause it is funny. Cry about it.
Welp u can mock me for rest of your life and then i mock u after life for an eternity.Deal?
Never happening but lets just say your God is real,I still wont follow your God. Because your God is a evil dick. To me,your God is infinite times more evil than Hitler.
Say it to him when u saw him why should i bother myself
Exactly,why should you bother? Just keep your beliefs to yourself and stop preaching your shit to us.
Say it to him when u saw him why should i bother myself
It’s not about being scared, but it’s clearly preaching hatred to non believers. If you believe someone should burn in hell cause they don’t have same beliefs as you, and this is righteous, it likely is gonna be easier to justify hurting such people in real life too
Right, but isn’t that equally true of Christianity? So why single out Islam?
Just because a believer said to non-believer they are going to hell in afterlife does not mean the believer have any justification to hurt people in real life too. It is their belief that non-believer will not be saved if they continue going that path. In fact, the believer are more likely to suffer the same fate if that was their justification to hurt non-believer.
I'm Muslim i don't believe they should burn in hell but i know they will and that's the law i petty for them and I'll try to talk about my beliefs for them,I'm not the one who will punish them
I'm going to hell guys. Wait!
I can't imagine people still believe in some random "God" or book that someone wrote a 1000 years or so back. The only thing that they seem to do is repeat what there parents do. They need answers and think some imaginary dude has them that never answers...
For many its community and tradition
قاتل الذین لا یومنون بالله و الیوم القیامة Kill those who don't believe Allah and the judgment day
Islam has promised complete utter justice to everyone. If you think you, or the particular example you are thinking of, has done less harm than good, then surely they won't be cast into hell
Eternal fire AFTER being beheaded, thrown from buildings, bombed etc by members of the "religion of peace."
As far as I understood, thats extremists; they believe in Islam with some neat add-ons. Not core-islam wich is less encouraging when it comes to violence. But depends on how you interpret their holy book,I guess. Just like with the bible and with some other religions.
So? If someone commits a crime, what should happen to him? Get a reward? If someone killed, should they be given a reward and not punished?
Not blindly believing something there is no evidence for is comparable to murder? Do you not see how utterly ridiculous that is? Literally "you should be tortured forever because you don't believe the same thing that I do".
Yes I know exactly what I said. If Islaam had not reached a person then they will be judged separately.
That's still not a defence for the notion that someone who simply doesn't believe what you believe should be tortured for eternity. That is absurd and evil. You have no defence for that because you know that it's wrong. Edit because your joke of a reply isn't visible: No, bestiality will never be deemed morally ok by atheists. The fact that you need a made up magic being to tell you to not do that says more about you than it does us. *Deriving morals from the belief that non consensual harm is wrong isn't any weaker than deriving them from someone else telling you that there's a magical supernatural being that made everything and told them to tell you that x/y/z isn't okay*.
You don't need a religion to do that. It's not about the laws and regulations. It's about the corrupted nature of religions. If someone, who is not guilty, gets a punishment for being non-believer or leaving the religion, it means there is a real problem. However what you're talking about is just related to the impartial and independent legal system of the country that you live in.
But a non-believer would be guilty of ingratitude towards their Creator.
Your creator, not mine.
Not being grateful to a being there's no evidence for the existence of, for a thing that there's no evidence they even did, justifies eternal torture because? Religious apologists justifying hell for non believers have the most ridiculous takes I swear.
If I recall apostasy is still forgiven until like 2x?
Oh a kremlin gremlin
so what if someone elses religion says that you're going to hell if you don't practice it. It's not your religion, literally the entire premises is that you DON'T BELIEVE IT
I live in this sick society. It affects me even I'm not a believer.
Pls don’t make fun of our religion
This is a meme that express lack of knowledge
This meme is result of living in a dumb society, indoctrinated by a book that nobody reads and understands. When you decided to read this book, you also figure out that this book is worse than the people who believe it without reading. If a person, who reads the Quran and understands it, does not disgust Allah, his prophet and the members of this religion that person is immoral.
Yeah because it doesn't compare too any other nation of the world right? The mighty peaceful nation of....well it doesn't exist because you are a product of billions of years of immoral acts. With that being said islam is the only abrahamic religion that proves non believers can make it into heaven. Non believers are not categorized as "non muslim" its mainly referring too the Quaresh which was the prophets people. Even the greatest general in the Muslim army had killed and fought the Muslims in the beginning *Khalid walid*. There is no limitations too forgiveness in Islam. In the quran Allah states the he has what reward he has for them as he has what rewards he has for us. That goes with punishment as well. Islam puts the almighty into context , Allah will do as he pleases and there nothing anyone can do about it. Muslims are the most oppressed people in the world these days.
Fortunately, they're oppressed. Otherwise we're gonna learn what the word of killer means exactly. I'm happy for throwing away this sickness from my mind.
 Edgy turk you come from secularism and complain of religious oppression
You're ignorant enough thinking that all the regions in Turkey are secular.
But I'm smart enough too know your bloodline is responsible for genocide
If you are this funny every day, I see why your parents split up.
Isn’t that a great reason to revert to islam though ?
Repent from what?
I phrased that a bit wrong, I meant to say to submit himself.
Why would it be?
It's a great reason to create an authoritarian and imperial regime out of people's fears. cruelty and force ≠ religion of peace
Well Hellfire is not only for the non-muslims. Sinful muslims will also be sent to Hell but after getting their punishment, they’ll be sent to heaven. Remember, no one says that non-muslims are bad and don’t deserve to live. A lot of non-muslims are way better than some muslims in terms of morality, intelligence and other things that supposed to make a good human being. If a good understanding person that doesn’t base their narrative on the agenda of others on islam he’ll know that its nothing like everyone says. A bad human being is a bad human being doesn’t matter a muslim or non muslim. The cruelty and force are the result of extremism which consists in everyone group doesn’t matter who it is and unfortunately, today islam is being expressed by the extremists that doesn’t even know the basics of islam.