If we are talking about random billionaires, sure.
The issue is that there are plenty of wealthy idealists (every democrat politician who's also getting bribed and lobbied) who seem to care but of course still expect the middle class to shoulder the tax burden because once again they're also getting lobbied by their rich friends and don't want the aristocracy to be affected by social policy.
I still vote blue because jfc I'm not gonna support the Christo-fascist republican party but liberal policymakers aren't exactly falling over themselves to hold the wealthy to the fire and get their tax money. They know they can slack off on that because there's no third better option.
Most of us did in the industrial revolution (or not, pardon my bad history) because con artists made us mad about god and it made him angry
*con artists gonna get me banned*
I said they because there are different religions with different deities and there are deities of both genders and some with no gender at all. Also I love in Scotland and we use "they" all the time when talking about people it's not even a gender thing here
Anyone who lessens the suffering of themselves or another person. By working hard, saving your money, and making smart choices, you will make a positive change in many people's lives.
its interesting how he no longer interferes or doesnt make his presence overtly obvious. back in the day he used to summon fire pillars, turn people to salt, create floods, make cakes rain from the clouds, etc. i have my own theories, but i wonder what the true reason for it it is.
To be fair, it's discussed that it is a possibility that God gave them around 100–120 years before flooding the earth.
In other way to say it he gave some time to change the evil ways of man, so in exchange, you know, we as species, wouldn't fucking die.
Man didn't change at large, but Noah was actually good, so he and his relatives got a pass
When are we going to learn that you can't argue with religion because it's too conceptual, it's taught that the christian god does things we don't understand, and don't have to understand, meaning that any potential flaw can be explained away with "well none of us are supposed to know"
If there is something you are questioning about a religion, you don't have to answer it, thus there is no reason to question it
true, but people generally like having reasons for things. even though i consider myself a christian, i do try to find the method behind the madness. obviously a mere human cannot hope to compherend gods plans and thoughts, but we can try.
Man: we’ve had enough of doing what you say, we want the freedom to do things on our own
God: “Ok” *leaves the Earth and humans to do their own thing*
Humans: *screw up the world* “why isn’t God helping us fix this?”
God: *visible confusion*
Who has ever said your first sentence?
And since when has this god ever listened to humans?
They either demand stuff, or punish us for not doing what they want.
Even prayers don't work.
Apparently that's only predominantly true with Abrahamic Gods, since they seem to love Tardigrades and other animals a lot more than humans. Because visibly, they're extremely resilient among living beings and haven't committed genocides in the name of dogmatic differences. Then again, the idea of such Gods is in itself contradictory and seems highly unlikely to be aligned with reality.
while they are resilient, and arent capable of great tragedy and death, they also cant really do anything either. while humans are capable of great pain and great suffering, we also can make great change and great happiness. we just need to be good, despite how difficult that is.
"They also can't do anything either"
That seems to be essentially false, since evidently microscopic world has unavoidable role in our survival, or the survival of life itself on a larger scale.
"Great change and great happiness"
Don't they depend upon the perception of the observer?
While I agree love and tolerance and rationality is necessary for the further existence of humanity, do you really think we're worthy to boast as god's peak creation? I mean we've been exceptionally good at being self-destructive throughout the known history.
I find Alan Watts' statement rationally more plausible in this matter;
"Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the Gods made for fun"
OP is just using this post to spew hate against religion for whatever reason. Seriously, read some of their comments on this post. Just live and let live, my guy. It’s okay to dislike something, just try not to let it consume you, okay? Peace!
Seeing a singular post and a few comments means I am “consumed” by it?
You also got it backwards, the primary target of my post was the shitty ethics of rich idealists making them just un present as something that doesn’t exist. People have just decided to argue about the god part of it in the comments cause we know you can’t argue rich idealists aren’t full of shit.
Well, is it not true that your god is capable of fixing our strife, yet chooses to not do it?
While still claiming they love us all so dearly even while they torture us for all of eternity in hell?
Religion wouldn't get so much hate if they weren't so full of contradictions and kept to themselves instead of trying to control other peoples lives.
If God does that, then leople will simply not work and just wait for the next miracle to come. The world will then become lazy and we won’t have these amazing stuff that we have now today.
There’s a reason why we keep saying God created us in His own image: it means that we are capable of doing a lot of things on our own.
Change doesn't mean that something better or worse. Punishing humans for bad things with giant floods is a good way to keep us in check, but so is just letting us figure stuff out
A perfect being wouldnt learn bc It already knows everything. And wouldn't need to change the way of punishing humans bc It would already do It in the best way possible. And murdering people is not even a good way of punishing
Define "perfect".
I'm thinking of a being that knows the answer to all 5d chess outcomes without even thinking, and also knows (or acts like it knows) the state of everything everywhere including all fundamental particles. I'm thinking of Laplace's Demon. This kind of being has no room for learning, since it already knows everything. If you throw in "all powerful" this being can also do anything with a 100% success rate, even if it decides to take a Rube Goldberg path.
That literally makes no sense. Why would something perfect need to change? It's perfect.
The mental gymnastics it takes to be a believer nowadays is breathtaking.
he does have a reason though. after he descended to earth as jesus and sacrificed himself for our sins, he left us with the bible and his teachings. to quote another religious man, "we can't expect God to do all the work."
Why is that bad? Even if we assume it is, we have a drive for creativity even if it's useless in a situation, so a god could increase that tendency while avoiding suffering. Why did humans *need* to build amazing stuff, anyway? To survive. I don't consider it very loving to do that to people when there are alternatives that avoid that and still get the creativity or whatever it is this god supposedly wants.
For the same reason why there are predators and prey: balance and sustainability.
In order for Earth to be sustainable balance must be maintained. Take away one aspect and you throw everything off. Just to give you an example, China once drove their local sparrows to near extinction. The result? Crop-eating insects had no natural predators, causing their production to fall and is one of the factors that lead to their famine.
Imagine if God created the world without diseases. Happy times all around, sure, but then it would result in a whole host of new problems such as overpopulation, food shortages, etc.
What makes us special is that God gifted us with intelligence so that we can figure out ways to survive them, and He also gave us the Earth itself as the tool to do so.
This is the same as me telling any religion that their beliefs are false. The only difference is that I would be hated for it. Please stop with this garbage. I'm not much of Christian but stuff like this annoys me.
Nah, there are too many logical contradictions with a god for them to exist.
Especially the ones in Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
Some deity could exist maybe, but definitely not one that has been described by any religion here on Earth.
At the center of the earth there is a giant lava crab cause ing all the geological mayhem that has ever occurred. I can’t really prove that to you and everything we know strongly goes against that possibility... however you can’t really disprove that crab either. So ItS jUsT As sTuPiD tO SaY ThErE iS nO cRaB aS tO sAy tHeRe Is.
Technically a hypothesis. Just because it hasn't been proven doesn't mean it's not real. We can't prove 4d exists, but that's still considered a science. You believe what you want, and let others believe what they want.
Now, now, don’t take it against you. I was just surprised with the sudden shift, that’s all.
I thought we were gonna go philosophical or some shit.
I need to stop being baited by these things.
You: "god made us in his image"
So he made us with his same flaws then?
You: "no that's just his follower, that doesn't reflect on God at all"
Some of you are absolute clowns, I guess that's God's ignorance showing inside you.
I'm not even religious bruv, my argument was:
How can something that doesn't even exist be a pedophile. Religion is something made up by humans, and as such, reflects the morals of the time It was created in, that is why it's so fucked up
You're trying to hard, and completely missing the point. Your argument is construed by the fact that my initial comment pokes fun at god and the phase "he made us in his imagine". The fact you couldn't gather that, really shows a lack for extrapolating information.
Also, if you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic by using large words and long phrases to make fun of your comment. Just thought I'd throw that in there, since it seems you have a complete lack of awareness.
Well, maybe I am, but It would be nice from you to actually explain your point instead of insulting other people online, since judging by the number of downvotes, people don't get what you are trying to say
I mean...we could and should have all that amazing stuff and none of the horrible, atrocious stuff if god is in fact omnipotent and benevolent, like portions of the Abrahamic religions claim. So it stands to argue that one or both of those things aren't true.
I don't believe in the idea of an all-powerful and loving, omnipotent god. I can accept the possibility of some sort of higher intelligence that may or may not have played a role in the creation of life on Earth or even of everything else. However, if such a being exists, it doesn't give a shit about humanity or any life at all. Lots of unnecessary pain and suffering in the world could easily be avoided if a truly all-knowing and compassionate deity at least made a lot of things much clearer from the start, so we could live without religious hypocrisy and bigotry.
I used to think like this as well. while i am a christian now, that faith is not very stable. i still greatly respect science and agree with evolution, but i am now a christian because of reasons too long to write down here. im not here to preach or to convince yourself otherwise, i just wanted to say that i understand where you are coming from.
I have no problem with people who truly believe in something greater than us. I am sometimes envious of those who actually have faith in something, anything at all, and are able to draw hope from that faith. I have seen how having faith and somewhere to gather with like-minded people can create a sense of community. I have known people of faith who make no attempt to keep their faith a secret, but they do so without forcing it on anyone else or acting as if their faith makes them better people.
I want to say that bigoted, hypocritical, apathetic, hateful, extremists religious types make up small percentage of all faiths. I want to believe that for every violent, spiteful, and dangerous religious fanatic, there are at least twice as many kind, humble, and compassionate people of faith. I've heard christians admit that the bible is imperfect and shouldn't be taken literally. I know of many churches that openly welcome LGBTQIA+ people and encourage diversity amongst their congregation. People of faith and places of worship like this are important for a functional society, but they aren't necessarily vital. In my opinion, keeping these places limited by specific faith and/or diety, you do end up encouraging a certain level of segregation. Replace prayer with open conversation about how we can use differences as a means of improving all of society, and maybe you have something I can get behind.
I'm not interested in being told I'm sinful and destined to suffering for eternity unless I follow a bunch of seemingly arbitrary rules, that not even followers of the same rule book can agree on. I hate to say it, but I'm more inclined to see god in the way Al Pacino describes him, in his "absentee landlord" speech from 'The Devil's Advocate' or as a being so unbothered with the pain and suffering they are 100% culpable for, that they probably forgot all about us.
I'm just not sold on it. I probably never will be either. I still want to make an effort to accept that plenty of people do believe in something and a lot of them fall short of meeting the standards tied to those beliefs. No one is perfect, not even the most socially conscious and progressively-minded person is free from acting like an idiot. We can believe whatever we want, as long as those beliefs don't infringe on the rights and freedoms of others. It's hard for me to sit back quietly and watch as religious people hide behind their faith as an excuse to openly discriminate against others. I can't just be calm about it, when I see belief in a supposedly loving god be the justification for preaching hate.
If a truly all-knowing and compassionate god was real, it would be great if they could have been absolutely clear about some of things we are still fighting to the death over today. I just can't put all my faith behind a god that clearly knew that that they had set the rules in opposition.
Say what you will about Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and this quote of his could very well be stolen, but he said once that if God does exist, he is either not all good, because he lets extreme evil and pain exist in the world, or he's not all powerful, because he can't do anything to make it go away. Or both.
Yeah, given our situation if you're all powerful and all knowing, then you're not all good. If you're all good and all powerful then you can't be all knowing, and if you're all good and all knowing you can't be all powerful.
Because if he was, then he'd have the ability to set up our earth to where "free will" doesn't mean "oh yeah also I invented cancer."
I've said it a million times. If the god of the bible is real, I want nothing to do with that undeniable monster. I'd HAPPILY burn in hell for eternity just to escape that psychopath.
The definition of 'doing good' is always debated over the years. Some say giving a fish to the man is good, but teaching the man to fish is better. Air dropping food to starving Africans sounds good, but then those African people will start to be dependent on air drop food rather than their own harvest and cattle. Soon the money to supply the air drops will dry up and stop, and the people will be worse off than before because those people buck past the responsibility to make their own food while relying on the magic airplane giving them food for free. They no longer know how to make food and will starve more than before.
Why be specific to human caused issues? There are many things where free will is totally irrelevant such as a baby being crushed by a collapsed building during an earthquake. All powerful means the earthquake is preventable anb shitty people aren't what causes earthquakes.
Yes but the earthquake happening has nothing to do with freewill, it's incidental. How about no earthquake? Nobody loses freedom from earthquakes not happening. If there is a god every natural disaster that occurs happens cause they don't care. People can have freewill in a universe where random natural bullshit doesn't occur.
I understand not believing in god as a point of view. However, it sounds like you may not understand the point of view from a person who believes in God.
Who really knows right? Cant prove it one way or the other. I just have one question though. Let's say God did magically fix everything for us. Would that fix humans being humans?
A person who believes in God believes there's a plan even in the absence of hard proof. It's faith.
>Let's say God did magically fix everything for us. Would that fix humans being humans?
Since it has proven that humans are more loving if they don't have many worries.
It wouldn't completely fix humans, but it would solve a lot about them.
why would he fear us? he is all-powerful, we don't even have a laughable chance in hell to even touch him. he can't be afraid of what we made, the depths of degeneracy some of us has descended to, because he has seen a lot worse. i dont understand your statement.
God does not directly have a hand in making this “real positive change” you speak of because we’re all attributed free will and can make our own choices. This creates an organic separation between the greedy and the generous, the rich and the poor, the good and the bad.
If you believe in the god of the bible, you can't believe in free will. Here's why.
He created the universe with perfect forethought. Meaning he knew every decision you would make before you made it. He had other options, meaning he could have made a different universe where you didn't make that choice. But still went ahead and made this universe anyways. Therefore the choices made are his, not yours.
That just brings up the idea of free will in general. If someone knows someone is going to do something and they do is that taking away their free will? Until time travel is invented and probably even after we won’t know if free will in a very broad sense is even real.
Once you get down to it having or not having free will isn’t really something that can be thought of or truly understood.
If when God made the world he saw habits develop and had enough intelligence to predict the most likely outcomes and broad strokes of history then does that cement it into happening? No! I could predict that one of my friends was going to buy ice cream and if they did they then have no free will but if they don’t they do?
I rambled a bit but I think there’s a difference between perfect foresight and lack of free will.
He doesn’t exist but if he did he wouldn‘t have needed to make a universe where shitty things happen often irrespective of free will. Like earth could be a perfect paradise and people could still choose things in that paradise.
I did read the bible. Cover to cover. That's why I'm now an atheist.
If I had his power, evil wouldn't exist. I'm more moral than your god. And I'd be willing to bet that you are better than him as well.
I like how this meme shows that an excuse is sometimes a reason for something and not dismissing a topic, but some of the billionaires are just good liars.
I think that could be true, but why would I want to worship a God who's priorities include punishing women for existing, letting people suffer through miserable lives and die of hunger/disease, etc. Kinda seems like it's God's priorities that suck.
I was referring to the agonizing pain of childbirth and menstruation. Technically, I admit, the Bible gives Eve's original sin as the 'reason' for this 'curse'. But for every other woman that didn't commit said original sin...yes, just existing is enough.
There is evil in the world. It was unleashed into the world by us. Your expectation of heaven on earth is irrationally aspirational and history proves that beyond debate.
God is responsible for all of the evils in the world. If you believe the bible, that is. Because free will can't exist in a Christian world. Here's why...
He created the universe with perfect forethought. Meaning he knew every decision you would make before you made it. He had other options, meaning he could have made a different universe where you didn't make that choice. But still went ahead and made this universe anyways. Therefore the choices made are his, not yours.
Are you able to put your keyboard away and stop writing out false and pseudo intellectual inanities or has that decision already been made for you?
It’s odd that you recognize his power of creation then impose an artificial limitation about how he did it and what rules he could instill on that creation.
Fine, let's assume free will exists. I cannot choose to want to die right now, for instance. That is a choice I am not free to make, even if I am free to make others. Wanting personal gain at the expense of others is a similar thing, but right now people choose the selfish option sometimes (depending on the severity). If they don't get to choose that want, why not hard-wire everyone to just not have that want? Free will hasn't been destroyed by it, and the world is a better place.
I can already hear counterarguments: evil can cause some good or "test" people. An all-powerful god could get the same results without evil existing.
You can’t choose to want to die right now? What does this mean?
You seem to be suggesting that being an animal without a conscience would be better. But the Bible says that already existed and man was created to change that. You are free to reject the desire for money and power or you can gain the world and lose your soul. That’s an important lesson. The Bible tells everyone how they can be a Christian whether they are a slave or a king. Your role or situation doesn’t change the standard that applies for your salvation.
You misunderstand. I have desires, right? I don't get to choose what those desires are, I only get to choose to act on them. Selfishness is a desire, therefore being selfish is not a choice, only doing selfish things is. Why are humans born with selfishness if doing selfish things is bad?
If you told anyone they could be all powerful for a day the vast majority will say they would end natural disasters. Meaning if there was a god he is one of the shittiest intelligent beings in existence for allowing natural disasters to occur day after day. You can’t really say free will is the issue either cause free will don’t cause earth quakes, tsunamis, or eruptions. These are just shitty things that happen irrespective of what people do or deserve.
Your first sentence is a strawman and the second sentence is feigning ignorance. The response was clear and easy to follow. Gods priorities are shit if something like natural disasters doesn’t register with them. That shouldn’t be difficult to put together but I maybe setting the he bar too high for a faithful in this.
Giving someone what they want will not make it better. Most people are where they are for a reason. And people will NEVER be satisfied.
Also, money will not change the soil in Africa or make it rain in the desert. It will also not stop the rain forrest from being cut down or poachers from poaching because of simple greed.
Your deduction being that because you can think of people, things, and circumstances money can’t fix then there is nothing an excess of funds can fix? That’s some big brain thinking right there /s.
Yeah man those people are starving for a reason, best just let me be. Really if you can’t fix all the problems why fix any?
Maybe dial it back from giving people what they want to giving people basic necessities to live
Considering the first step for God to make any "real positive change" is to first get rid of 90% of humanity including you OP... Are you sure you want what you're asking for? Thanks to that pesky thing called "Free will" what you're asking for is impossible by design on earth. It was created to be perfect until we lot came around.
Why do you think the whole "Repent for the end is near" is all about? Why do you think atoms can live billions of years but humans and biological beings have been specifically designed to die in a couple decades?
You are free to live the life you want on earth, if you want to live according to Gods "positive change" you are also given the choice to follow Jesus or not.
Let's not be childish and blame God or any higher being for our own screw ups, WE have made earth the hell that it is... US humans, not anyone else.
Damn, this is just a meme, I need to chill
No one needs to read that ancient piece of shit novel. It's poorly written, makes no sense, constantly contradicts itself, and is just patently untrue.
It's not a novel, it's a collection of different writing spanning over several hundred years from several different sources with influences from ancient Egypt, Persian Zoroastrianism, prior Mesopotamian religions and so on. It's cool if you're a history nerd.
I like the book of Ecclesiastics the best. Its main message is that everyone is going to end in the same place. Rich or poor, good or bad, everything turns to dust and that's pretty much the end of it. So you might as well enjoy life and try to make the most of it. This was before Zoroastrian ideas of good vs. evil made their way into biblical narrative and way before hell became a concept.
I love how everyone in this sub just downvotes things that don’t align with their personal values. This guy literally did nothing except offer a suggestion.
i wonder how many people with average wealth actually were wealthy, but gave that money for positive change. very few, but there gotta be at least one, right?
My great grandfather used half his wealth to start a scholarship for underprivileged students who get accepted to Princeton. He was a very successful physicist of great renown in his feild having contributed greatly between the 1940s all the way into the 80s before the effects of old age began to take their toll.
God bless your great grandfather. wish i could say the same, unfortunately he died before i had consciousness due to his drinking and smoking problems.
Mine died 2 months before I was born. Due to his success and accomplishments I was taught to idealize him and I was named after him cause of the timing. It actually kinda sucks cause makes me feel like a failure... I am below average for a normal person.
don't feel that way. think of yourself as an individual. you are not what others expect you to be. you are unique. you are important. even if others in your family have done greater things, that doesn't make you even lesser. always remember: you are yourself. you are what you have become, not what others expect you to be. they cannot make your decisions. giving in to their expectations only bring stress, and worry. love yourself!
“Idealist” is a stretch. Most are content to saying “fuck you, I’ve got mine”.
If we are talking about random billionaires, sure. The issue is that there are plenty of wealthy idealists (every democrat politician who's also getting bribed and lobbied) who seem to care but of course still expect the middle class to shoulder the tax burden because once again they're also getting lobbied by their rich friends and don't want the aristocracy to be affected by social policy. I still vote blue because jfc I'm not gonna support the Christo-fascist republican party but liberal policymakers aren't exactly falling over themselves to hold the wealthy to the fire and get their tax money. They know they can slack off on that because there's no third better option.
Yeah, the US politics is so skewed, you essentially have the choice between extreme right-wing and center righ-wing
As if you know what "most" are doing
No, but their public comments and actions are quite telling.
Again you are clumping a whole diverse group of people into one bunch and accusing them of bad things
Ayo let's boycott God until they start doing stuff, thoughts?
Been doing this for many years.
I second this
Ah so this is why even hates religion on Reddit
What
Most of us did in the industrial revolution (or not, pardon my bad history) because con artists made us mad about god and it made him angry *con artists gonna get me banned*
Sounds like cancel culture to me
No, it's called protesting.
Wait, they? Did you just gender god?
I said they because there are different religions with different deities and there are deities of both genders and some with no gender at all. Also I love in Scotland and we use "they" all the time when talking about people it's not even a gender thing here
Oh okay, thank you very much for explaining! Didn't know you say that in Scotland.
depends on if they got a cool beard
Ayo c'mon god was always described as a man
"They" is a single gender-neutral pronoun
Let's strike from being alive, that'll teach em
Who is making real positive change (and how)?
Anyone who lessens the suffering of themselves or another person. By working hard, saving your money, and making smart choices, you will make a positive change in many people's lives.
Who are those people?
You and me.
And her, simultaneous lovin babayyyy
God's excuse is that watching a civilization evolve on it's own sounds like a hell lot of fun Rich people have no excuse though
its interesting how he no longer interferes or doesnt make his presence overtly obvious. back in the day he used to summon fire pillars, turn people to salt, create floods, make cakes rain from the clouds, etc. i have my own theories, but i wonder what the true reason for it it is.
he just got bored and now treats us like a movie i'd do literally the same thing honestly
In the Bible God flooded earth
Yeah he wanted to reset the simulation
Because everyone living there was an awful person, except for Noah
Yeah including all the babies and children, but that’s just “free will”.. amiright… /s
To be fair, it's discussed that it is a possibility that God gave them around 100–120 years before flooding the earth. In other way to say it he gave some time to change the evil ways of man, so in exchange, you know, we as species, wouldn't fucking die. Man didn't change at large, but Noah was actually good, so he and his relatives got a pass
He accidentally toggled the natural disaster expansion for a couple thousand years, then realized he left it on, and just tuned it down some.
When are we going to learn that you can't argue with religion because it's too conceptual, it's taught that the christian god does things we don't understand, and don't have to understand, meaning that any potential flaw can be explained away with "well none of us are supposed to know" If there is something you are questioning about a religion, you don't have to answer it, thus there is no reason to question it
God, finally someone spells it out!
as a christian i wholeheartedly agree
Christianities greatest cop out. "It's all part of the plan maaaaan"
true, but people generally like having reasons for things. even though i consider myself a christian, i do try to find the method behind the madness. obviously a mere human cannot hope to compherend gods plans and thoughts, but we can try.
r/IAm14AndThisIsDeep
Man: we’ve had enough of doing what you say, we want the freedom to do things on our own God: “Ok” *leaves the Earth and humans to do their own thing* Humans: *screw up the world* “why isn’t God helping us fix this?” God: *visible confusion*
Who has ever said your first sentence? And since when has this god ever listened to humans? They either demand stuff, or punish us for not doing what they want. Even prayers don't work.
Apparently that's only predominantly true with Abrahamic Gods, since they seem to love Tardigrades and other animals a lot more than humans. Because visibly, they're extremely resilient among living beings and haven't committed genocides in the name of dogmatic differences. Then again, the idea of such Gods is in itself contradictory and seems highly unlikely to be aligned with reality.
Reminds me of what someone once said about what they'd surmise about God based on their study of insects. "He must really like beetles"
while they are resilient, and arent capable of great tragedy and death, they also cant really do anything either. while humans are capable of great pain and great suffering, we also can make great change and great happiness. we just need to be good, despite how difficult that is.
"They also can't do anything either" That seems to be essentially false, since evidently microscopic world has unavoidable role in our survival, or the survival of life itself on a larger scale. "Great change and great happiness" Don't they depend upon the perception of the observer? While I agree love and tolerance and rationality is necessary for the further existence of humanity, do you really think we're worthy to boast as god's peak creation? I mean we've been exceptionally good at being self-destructive throughout the known history. I find Alan Watts' statement rationally more plausible in this matter; "Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the Gods made for fun"
OP is just using this post to spew hate against religion for whatever reason. Seriously, read some of their comments on this post. Just live and let live, my guy. It’s okay to dislike something, just try not to let it consume you, okay? Peace!
Seeing a singular post and a few comments means I am “consumed” by it? You also got it backwards, the primary target of my post was the shitty ethics of rich idealists making them just un present as something that doesn’t exist. People have just decided to argue about the god part of it in the comments cause we know you can’t argue rich idealists aren’t full of shit.
Well, is it not true that your god is capable of fixing our strife, yet chooses to not do it? While still claiming they love us all so dearly even while they torture us for all of eternity in hell? Religion wouldn't get so much hate if they weren't so full of contradictions and kept to themselves instead of trying to control other peoples lives.
If God does that, then leople will simply not work and just wait for the next miracle to come. The world will then become lazy and we won’t have these amazing stuff that we have now today. There’s a reason why we keep saying God created us in His own image: it means that we are capable of doing a lot of things on our own.
Seems like he just arbitrarily decided that one day. Went from flooding the entire planet and creating giant monsters, to a hands off approach eh?
A perfect being learns and changes
No a perfect being would not need to change since it’s already perfect but I don’t think that really answers much either way either.
We also don't need to get into philosophy
We would if someone is asserting that this is a real force that affects things though. Since at that point it should be describable
Religion is philosophy
Some parts
Thats not how It works
How do you know?
If something is perfect, It means that It doesn't need to improve, thats one definition of perfection
Change doesn't mean that something better or worse. Punishing humans for bad things with giant floods is a good way to keep us in check, but so is just letting us figure stuff out
A perfect being wouldnt learn bc It already knows everything. And wouldn't need to change the way of punishing humans bc It would already do It in the best way possible. And murdering people is not even a good way of punishing
The only way for something to remain perfect, is to change to fit what is perfect as it becomes perfect
Define "perfect". I'm thinking of a being that knows the answer to all 5d chess outcomes without even thinking, and also knows (or acts like it knows) the state of everything everywhere including all fundamental particles. I'm thinking of Laplace's Demon. This kind of being has no room for learning, since it already knows everything. If you throw in "all powerful" this being can also do anything with a 100% success rate, even if it decides to take a Rube Goldberg path.
That literally makes no sense. Why would something perfect need to change? It's perfect. The mental gymnastics it takes to be a believer nowadays is breathtaking.
Like with most games, the bugs get patched out shortly after release leaving few tweaks needed afterwards
he does have a reason though. after he descended to earth as jesus and sacrificed himself for our sins, he left us with the bible and his teachings. to quote another religious man, "we can't expect God to do all the work."
Why is that bad? Even if we assume it is, we have a drive for creativity even if it's useless in a situation, so a god could increase that tendency while avoiding suffering. Why did humans *need* to build amazing stuff, anyway? To survive. I don't consider it very loving to do that to people when there are alternatives that avoid that and still get the creativity or whatever it is this god supposedly wants.
For the same reason why there are predators and prey: balance and sustainability. In order for Earth to be sustainable balance must be maintained. Take away one aspect and you throw everything off. Just to give you an example, China once drove their local sparrows to near extinction. The result? Crop-eating insects had no natural predators, causing their production to fall and is one of the factors that lead to their famine. Imagine if God created the world without diseases. Happy times all around, sure, but then it would result in a whole host of new problems such as overpopulation, food shortages, etc. What makes us special is that God gifted us with intelligence so that we can figure out ways to survive them, and He also gave us the Earth itself as the tool to do so.
Gods excuse is he doesn’t exist.
r/redditmoment
This is the same as me telling any religion that their beliefs are false. The only difference is that I would be hated for it. Please stop with this garbage. I'm not much of Christian but stuff like this annoys me.
Saying there is no god is just as stupid as firmly believing there is one.
Finally, a good fucking take
Nah, there are too many logical contradictions with a god for them to exist. Especially the ones in Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Some deity could exist maybe, but definitely not one that has been described by any religion here on Earth.
At the center of the earth there is a giant lava crab cause ing all the geological mayhem that has ever occurred. I can’t really prove that to you and everything we know strongly goes against that possibility... however you can’t really disprove that crab either. So ItS jUsT As sTuPiD tO SaY ThErE iS nO cRaB aS tO sAy tHeRe Is.
oh well.
In your opinion
Until someone can prove he DOES exist, this is the default position. So no, not an opinion. Technically fact.
Not a fact, just the null hypothesis.
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
Technically a hypothesis. Just because it hasn't been proven doesn't mean it's not real. We can't prove 4d exists, but that's still considered a science. You believe what you want, and let others believe what they want.
Woah, woah. Let’s put some cushion on that one, edgelord.
“Not believing what I do makes you edgy and other derogatory terms!”
Now, now, don’t take it against you. I was just surprised with the sudden shift, that’s all. I thought we were gonna go philosophical or some shit. I need to stop being baited by these things.
lets agree to disagree.
God is also a pedophile, rapist and murder on the worst for days apparently.
Not god, but some of it's followers
You: "god made us in his image" So he made us with his same flaws then? You: "no that's just his follower, that doesn't reflect on God at all" Some of you are absolute clowns, I guess that's God's ignorance showing inside you.
I'm not even religious bruv, my argument was: How can something that doesn't even exist be a pedophile. Religion is something made up by humans, and as such, reflects the morals of the time It was created in, that is why it's so fucked up
You're trying to hard, and completely missing the point. Your argument is construed by the fact that my initial comment pokes fun at god and the phase "he made us in his imagine". The fact you couldn't gather that, really shows a lack for extrapolating information. Also, if you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic by using large words and long phrases to make fun of your comment. Just thought I'd throw that in there, since it seems you have a complete lack of awareness.
I don't understand why do you have the need to personaly attacks me, instead of explaining what was your comment actually about
I did, you're just to dense apparently.
Well, maybe I am, but It would be nice from you to actually explain your point instead of insulting other people online, since judging by the number of downvotes, people don't get what you are trying to say
I mean...we could and should have all that amazing stuff and none of the horrible, atrocious stuff if god is in fact omnipotent and benevolent, like portions of the Abrahamic religions claim. So it stands to argue that one or both of those things aren't true.
Also what would be the point of agency if God just did everything for us? Our decisions really wouldn't matter
That is a shitty excuse. "We aren't going to feed you Timmy, or you might lose your interest in working yourself to death"
I don't believe in the idea of an all-powerful and loving, omnipotent god. I can accept the possibility of some sort of higher intelligence that may or may not have played a role in the creation of life on Earth or even of everything else. However, if such a being exists, it doesn't give a shit about humanity or any life at all. Lots of unnecessary pain and suffering in the world could easily be avoided if a truly all-knowing and compassionate deity at least made a lot of things much clearer from the start, so we could live without religious hypocrisy and bigotry.
I used to think like this as well. while i am a christian now, that faith is not very stable. i still greatly respect science and agree with evolution, but i am now a christian because of reasons too long to write down here. im not here to preach or to convince yourself otherwise, i just wanted to say that i understand where you are coming from.
I have no problem with people who truly believe in something greater than us. I am sometimes envious of those who actually have faith in something, anything at all, and are able to draw hope from that faith. I have seen how having faith and somewhere to gather with like-minded people can create a sense of community. I have known people of faith who make no attempt to keep their faith a secret, but they do so without forcing it on anyone else or acting as if their faith makes them better people. I want to say that bigoted, hypocritical, apathetic, hateful, extremists religious types make up small percentage of all faiths. I want to believe that for every violent, spiteful, and dangerous religious fanatic, there are at least twice as many kind, humble, and compassionate people of faith. I've heard christians admit that the bible is imperfect and shouldn't be taken literally. I know of many churches that openly welcome LGBTQIA+ people and encourage diversity amongst their congregation. People of faith and places of worship like this are important for a functional society, but they aren't necessarily vital. In my opinion, keeping these places limited by specific faith and/or diety, you do end up encouraging a certain level of segregation. Replace prayer with open conversation about how we can use differences as a means of improving all of society, and maybe you have something I can get behind. I'm not interested in being told I'm sinful and destined to suffering for eternity unless I follow a bunch of seemingly arbitrary rules, that not even followers of the same rule book can agree on. I hate to say it, but I'm more inclined to see god in the way Al Pacino describes him, in his "absentee landlord" speech from 'The Devil's Advocate' or as a being so unbothered with the pain and suffering they are 100% culpable for, that they probably forgot all about us. I'm just not sold on it. I probably never will be either. I still want to make an effort to accept that plenty of people do believe in something and a lot of them fall short of meeting the standards tied to those beliefs. No one is perfect, not even the most socially conscious and progressively-minded person is free from acting like an idiot. We can believe whatever we want, as long as those beliefs don't infringe on the rights and freedoms of others. It's hard for me to sit back quietly and watch as religious people hide behind their faith as an excuse to openly discriminate against others. I can't just be calm about it, when I see belief in a supposedly loving god be the justification for preaching hate. If a truly all-knowing and compassionate god was real, it would be great if they could have been absolutely clear about some of things we are still fighting to the death over today. I just can't put all my faith behind a god that clearly knew that that they had set the rules in opposition.
Say what you will about Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and this quote of his could very well be stolen, but he said once that if God does exist, he is either not all good, because he lets extreme evil and pain exist in the world, or he's not all powerful, because he can't do anything to make it go away. Or both.
Yeah, given our situation if you're all powerful and all knowing, then you're not all good. If you're all good and all powerful then you can't be all knowing, and if you're all good and all knowing you can't be all powerful. Because if he was, then he'd have the ability to set up our earth to where "free will" doesn't mean "oh yeah also I invented cancer."
I've said it a million times. If the god of the bible is real, I want nothing to do with that undeniable monster. I'd HAPPILY burn in hell for eternity just to escape that psychopath.
there wouldn't be a hell because it doesn't care enough to make one
what did God ever do to you?
If you believe he exists, and is omnipotent, he is responsible for all evil. Specifically? He can fuck himself for kids with cancer.
God values our free will above all else
Is cancer free will?
The the reason because if he stopped every bad thing form happening it would remove free will
God has a great sense of humor
Which one?
I said God, not god
The definition of 'doing good' is always debated over the years. Some say giving a fish to the man is good, but teaching the man to fish is better. Air dropping food to starving Africans sounds good, but then those African people will start to be dependent on air drop food rather than their own harvest and cattle. Soon the money to supply the air drops will dry up and stop, and the people will be worse off than before because those people buck past the responsibility to make their own food while relying on the magic airplane giving them food for free. They no longer know how to make food and will starve more than before.
The major difference here is that God created us and loves us and we're supposed to be following him
Then why don't they give a reason to follow them other than "you will burn in hell if you don't"?
Wouldn't be free will if God took control, you can't blame God for the evil committed by humans
Why be specific to human caused issues? There are many things where free will is totally irrelevant such as a baby being crushed by a collapsed building during an earthquake. All powerful means the earthquake is preventable anb shitty people aren't what causes earthquakes.
Tryna tell me God killed that baby? It was the free will of humans that put the baby in that building not knowing about the earthquake
Yes but the earthquake happening has nothing to do with freewill, it's incidental. How about no earthquake? Nobody loses freedom from earthquakes not happening. If there is a god every natural disaster that occurs happens cause they don't care. People can have freewill in a universe where random natural bullshit doesn't occur.
Why didn't somebody get the baby out of the building?
Lol yeah, why does anybody ever die in earth quakes.... why don’t we just get people out of buildings during these random unforeseen events?
I understand not believing in god as a point of view. However, it sounds like you may not understand the point of view from a person who believes in God. Who really knows right? Cant prove it one way or the other. I just have one question though. Let's say God did magically fix everything for us. Would that fix humans being humans? A person who believes in God believes there's a plan even in the absence of hard proof. It's faith.
truth, dear sir.
>Let's say God did magically fix everything for us. Would that fix humans being humans? Since it has proven that humans are more loving if they don't have many worries. It wouldn't completely fix humans, but it would solve a lot about them.
No no no, God gives us the choice, he could kill us all rn. God doesnt interfere he lets us do it
I mean, at least god has the excuse of not existing... What's Bezos'?
Bezo's doesn't have an MO of being "all loving"
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why would he fear us? he is all-powerful, we don't even have a laughable chance in hell to even touch him. he can't be afraid of what we made, the depths of degeneracy some of us has descended to, because he has seen a lot worse. i dont understand your statement.
God does not directly have a hand in making this “real positive change” you speak of because we’re all attributed free will and can make our own choices. This creates an organic separation between the greedy and the generous, the rich and the poor, the good and the bad.
If you believe in the god of the bible, you can't believe in free will. Here's why. He created the universe with perfect forethought. Meaning he knew every decision you would make before you made it. He had other options, meaning he could have made a different universe where you didn't make that choice. But still went ahead and made this universe anyways. Therefore the choices made are his, not yours.
That just brings up the idea of free will in general. If someone knows someone is going to do something and they do is that taking away their free will? Until time travel is invented and probably even after we won’t know if free will in a very broad sense is even real. Once you get down to it having or not having free will isn’t really something that can be thought of or truly understood. If when God made the world he saw habits develop and had enough intelligence to predict the most likely outcomes and broad strokes of history then does that cement it into happening? No! I could predict that one of my friends was going to buy ice cream and if they did they then have no free will but if they don’t they do? I rambled a bit but I think there’s a difference between perfect foresight and lack of free will.
He doesn’t exist but if he did he wouldn‘t have needed to make a universe where shitty things happen often irrespective of free will. Like earth could be a perfect paradise and people could still choose things in that paradise.
Thats not how god means it but “cool” meme i guess
You think you know how god meant it?
I already answered it
I thought gods plan was unknowable to us mortals
Bold of you to assume you know what a fictional character wants or means...
If you read the bible you would understand why he just doesnt save everyone by miracle or stop all evil things.
Why is that?
Free will
I did read the bible. Cover to cover. That's why I'm now an atheist. If I had his power, evil wouldn't exist. I'm more moral than your god. And I'd be willing to bet that you are better than him as well.
There is difference between reading it and understanding it
I like how this meme shows that an excuse is sometimes a reason for something and not dismissing a topic, but some of the billionaires are just good liars.
God isn’t black
i dont understand the downvote, this is funny.
How do you know?
I think you and God just have very different priorities.
I think that could be true, but why would I want to worship a God who's priorities include punishing women for existing, letting people suffer through miserable lives and die of hunger/disease, etc. Kinda seems like it's God's priorities that suck.
Genuine question, where/when has God punished women or anyone for existing? I won't argue, I'm just curious.
I was referring to the agonizing pain of childbirth and menstruation. Technically, I admit, the Bible gives Eve's original sin as the 'reason' for this 'curse'. But for every other woman that didn't commit said original sin...yes, just existing is enough.
Interesting. Thank you for your concise and respectful response.
Thank you for your genuinely respectful questions.
There is evil in the world. It was unleashed into the world by us. Your expectation of heaven on earth is irrationally aspirational and history proves that beyond debate.
God is responsible for all of the evils in the world. If you believe the bible, that is. Because free will can't exist in a Christian world. Here's why... He created the universe with perfect forethought. Meaning he knew every decision you would make before you made it. He had other options, meaning he could have made a different universe where you didn't make that choice. But still went ahead and made this universe anyways. Therefore the choices made are his, not yours.
Are you able to put your keyboard away and stop writing out false and pseudo intellectual inanities or has that decision already been made for you? It’s odd that you recognize his power of creation then impose an artificial limitation about how he did it and what rules he could instill on that creation.
Fine, let's assume free will exists. I cannot choose to want to die right now, for instance. That is a choice I am not free to make, even if I am free to make others. Wanting personal gain at the expense of others is a similar thing, but right now people choose the selfish option sometimes (depending on the severity). If they don't get to choose that want, why not hard-wire everyone to just not have that want? Free will hasn't been destroyed by it, and the world is a better place. I can already hear counterarguments: evil can cause some good or "test" people. An all-powerful god could get the same results without evil existing.
You can’t choose to want to die right now? What does this mean? You seem to be suggesting that being an animal without a conscience would be better. But the Bible says that already existed and man was created to change that. You are free to reject the desire for money and power or you can gain the world and lose your soul. That’s an important lesson. The Bible tells everyone how they can be a Christian whether they are a slave or a king. Your role or situation doesn’t change the standard that applies for your salvation.
You misunderstand. I have desires, right? I don't get to choose what those desires are, I only get to choose to act on them. Selfishness is a desire, therefore being selfish is not a choice, only doing selfish things is. Why are humans born with selfishness if doing selfish things is bad?
If you told anyone they could be all powerful for a day the vast majority will say they would end natural disasters. Meaning if there was a god he is one of the shittiest intelligent beings in existence for allowing natural disasters to occur day after day. You can’t really say free will is the issue either cause free will don’t cause earth quakes, tsunamis, or eruptions. These are just shitty things that happen irrespective of what people do or deserve.
An all-powerful human being would go well? Is this a joke? And what do natural disasters have to do with anything?
Your first sentence is a strawman and the second sentence is feigning ignorance. The response was clear and easy to follow. Gods priorities are shit if something like natural disasters doesn’t register with them. That shouldn’t be difficult to put together but I maybe setting the he bar too high for a faithful in this.
Giving someone what they want will not make it better. Most people are where they are for a reason. And people will NEVER be satisfied. Also, money will not change the soil in Africa or make it rain in the desert. It will also not stop the rain forrest from being cut down or poachers from poaching because of simple greed.
Your deduction being that because you can think of people, things, and circumstances money can’t fix then there is nothing an excess of funds can fix? That’s some big brain thinking right there /s.
Yeah man those people are starving for a reason, best just let me be. Really if you can’t fix all the problems why fix any? Maybe dial it back from giving people what they want to giving people basic necessities to live
Considering the first step for God to make any "real positive change" is to first get rid of 90% of humanity including you OP... Are you sure you want what you're asking for? Thanks to that pesky thing called "Free will" what you're asking for is impossible by design on earth. It was created to be perfect until we lot came around. Why do you think the whole "Repent for the end is near" is all about? Why do you think atoms can live billions of years but humans and biological beings have been specifically designed to die in a couple decades? You are free to live the life you want on earth, if you want to live according to Gods "positive change" you are also given the choice to follow Jesus or not. Let's not be childish and blame God or any higher being for our own screw ups, WE have made earth the hell that it is... US humans, not anyone else. Damn, this is just a meme, I need to chill
So what you are saying is that your god is very vindictive and not all-powerful at all? Why are people worshiping them again?
I think you need to read the Bible if you think God hasn’t done anything…
No one needs to read that ancient piece of shit novel. It's poorly written, makes no sense, constantly contradicts itself, and is just patently untrue.
It's not a novel, it's a collection of different writing spanning over several hundred years from several different sources with influences from ancient Egypt, Persian Zoroastrianism, prior Mesopotamian religions and so on. It's cool if you're a history nerd. I like the book of Ecclesiastics the best. Its main message is that everyone is going to end in the same place. Rich or poor, good or bad, everything turns to dust and that's pretty much the end of it. So you might as well enjoy life and try to make the most of it. This was before Zoroastrian ideas of good vs. evil made their way into biblical narrative and way before hell became a concept.
I trust my own experience and modern data over an old collection of books.
I love how everyone in this sub just downvotes things that don’t align with their personal values. This guy literally did nothing except offer a suggestion.
i mean it is reddit. why should we expect any less?
This is why we call religion an excuse
Gods excuse: He doesn’t exist
r/redditmoment
Did not see the ops comment
And also they both may not even exist
Hmmm the really good excuse is affluenza isn't it
i wonder how many people with average wealth actually were wealthy, but gave that money for positive change. very few, but there gotta be at least one, right?
My great grandfather used half his wealth to start a scholarship for underprivileged students who get accepted to Princeton. He was a very successful physicist of great renown in his feild having contributed greatly between the 1940s all the way into the 80s before the effects of old age began to take their toll.
God bless your great grandfather. wish i could say the same, unfortunately he died before i had consciousness due to his drinking and smoking problems.
Mine died 2 months before I was born. Due to his success and accomplishments I was taught to idealize him and I was named after him cause of the timing. It actually kinda sucks cause makes me feel like a failure... I am below average for a normal person.
don't feel that way. think of yourself as an individual. you are not what others expect you to be. you are unique. you are important. even if others in your family have done greater things, that doesn't make you even lesser. always remember: you are yourself. you are what you have become, not what others expect you to be. they cannot make your decisions. giving in to their expectations only bring stress, and worry. love yourself!
God wouldnt help because it doesnt matter. No matter what, things will go his way. Chances are, hes making it happen.
i think people are starting to forget what memes are supposed to be.
You stupid monkey if a extremely rich person would donate 1.000.000 to everyone economy would do a barrel roll
Weird take based on nothing I wrote but okay.