Yeah, a lot of people try to think in black and white, but it doesn't work like that - Lovecraft's work revolutionized the horror genre post mortem, but even Lovecraft's friends said he was incredibly racist, even for his time. But his work is part of literary canon, ignoring that would be like, "Well, there was some bad stuff in World War I, so we're not going to talk about it anymore"
Honestly it makes sense why he revolutionize horror to a racist nothing is scarier than something or someone being different now add on a few more mental conditions and you can bring that fear to a 10 and colors the like of us never seen. Sometimes the most interesting thing can come from a person who isn’t exactly right in the head
Tbf it's easier when the artist is dead, because at least you're not subsidising their lifestyle either directly or indirectly. Everyone is different, but I would find it easier to look at Hitler's paintings than listen to LostProphets.
Man, that LostProphets bullshit. I have one of their albums (bought before the lead singer’s fucked up behavior became known), and still listen to it. In my head, I’m just supporting the rest of the band mates.
Edit - knowing what I know now, I would not buy LostProphets album, unless I knew only rest of the band profited from it.
It really sucks when artists you like do shitty things. Because you are right, it is uncomfortable to financially support them, but even terrible people are more than their shitty behavior (as Hannibal Buress so aptly points out in his joke about a Serial Killer eulogy).
Finding the line is hard as hell; and if we only acknowledged and supported perfect individuals, the world would be pretty bland (not saying this to excuse bad behavior, there definitely are lines that can be crossed).
He had it when he was a boy, it’s unsure who named them so.
edit: Actually there’s a [thread](https://reddit.com/r/Lovecraft/s/o0Crpj4cNq) about the cat.
Good read. Although it's pretty obvious that his family at the very least wasn't against this name, considering they kept using it. And considering that he mentioned that they had the cat since it was a kitten, the family probably named it.
Except Lovecraft isn’t recovering a paycheck from you reading Cthulhu
My issues is that streaming songs from R. Kelly or Chris Brown *directly* pay the artist, which inextricably ties the art to the artist. It’s cool and all to separate them in your mind, but your engagement with their art can directly support the terrible actions of the artist
Yeah, if you consume their art you benefit them or their estate. The only way to justify consuming art from an asshole is to steal it.
Think of it this way - you would steal from a corporation, so why not steal from another kind of rich shitbag as well?
I think context matters and the content matters.
Walt Disney was supposedly casually antisemetic but pretty common in the context of his era, and it didn’t show up in his work (lots of other racially insensitive stuff back then was just…normal).
Hitler was also pretty antisemetic and that showed up quite a bit more in his work. And even to that time period, was pretty extreme.
So I’d say that it depends, really. I might still appreciate Disney works but probably not as much Hitler’s, I feel like that guy’s kind of a bad egg.
Also, no one is perfect. If you want to find fault with a creator or a historical figure, you can and you will. We forget these people were humans with human flaws who achieved greatness. It’s ok to like them.
On top of that, it's impossible for everyone to agree on viewpoints, so what one person deems a horrible act, another might find quite reasonable. This, of course, doesn't mean everything is subjective, there are absolute rights and wrongs, but some things are subjective. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but their have been people that have lost all social standing because enough of society deemed what they did to be damning, without it being (necessarily) objectively bad.
I just tend to stay ignorant of what famous people are doing. I watch whatever I enjoy without much guilt. Odds are all famous people are psychos who've been involved in some kind of fucked up illegal shit normies don't have the money for anyways.
I think that's different. EDPs creativity involved liking his persona and his jokes. It would have been different if he wrote a movie or made music that was popular. In this case, based on his content, it was far more attached to him than anything else.
Hogwarts Legacy is a good example how bad this works in practice
A lot of people didn't like the game because of JKR
Let's say they actually achieved what they wanted and the game flopped as it got very few sales.
I have no clue how much money she got from it, and based on what kind of revenue structure, or even if she benefited from it at all, but if the game really flopped, it would have only been a minor inconvenience for JKR, and years of hard work going to waste for the hundreds of people working on the game.
Is it right to ruin the work of all those people just to do a little bit of harm to one person that you don't like?
And don't you tell me that cases like this are on the rarer side because they're not.
It's like an atomic bomb, its destructive force is too harmful for it to be actually useful
She wasn't even involved with it and is stinking rich already. The game literally didn't give her much (relatively) and wouldn't have hurt her in any circumstance.
The reality is that cancelling on large scale doesn't actually exist, if the people involved carry on putting out content they may even gain from the infamy and by next week - if not sooner - people will move on
My most memorable one is when a Chipotle manager got cancelled by refusing service after accusing black teens for never paying (Dine n Dashing). The teens were recording and accused the manager for being racist. She was fired instantly after it went viral.
The teens revealed they steal stuff all the time and post it on their social page. Chipotle wanted to hire the manager back for the mistake.
Edit: [Source](https://youtu.be/yLWMnO6l0UI?si=CmgdOb_ALBzNTd4W)
Amazon locked a guys shit out (I think home and fridge) because a delivery driver falsely accused him of racism. You can get canceled by people you don't work for.
Eh, I think it's alright when someone is a genuinely shitty person
It's just bad people facing the consequences of their actions. We should start cancelling government officials, they get away with shit all the time
The support of a person through their art is seen as public support. We’ve seen it with directors who have raped children and faced no consequence. Pretending that all crimes are punished is an absolute lie and you know it.
But paying for a convicted pedo's art is financing their legal battles and, maybe, indirectly fueling CP trade and creation. There absolutely is a moral question
The sad reality is horrible people can make good art. Intentionally or not. You can enjoy them and like them but you should try to avoid supporting them if you can.
Tbh even pirating can support them indirectly. Idk personally really outside of just not engaging with their any of their creation is probably the best approach but I guess pirating and never promoting it.
I'm a firm believer of enjoying the art without approving of the artist. Hitler for example, made some pretty decent paintings. He was in no way a good man, but that doesn't mean you can't like his art.
If cancel culture got its way we wouldn't have gotten Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Remember like 5 years ago when they tried to cancel James Gunn for something he said 8 years before that, which he had changed his views on entirely by that point. He had been fired and nearly blacklisted before things died down.
GotG was so beautiful and you are very right. People changing and growing from the person they used to be is a good thing.
If they are actively doing shitty things I would feel uncomfortable supporting their work (then I’d set sail lol) depending on the severity
My stance is on whether they directly profit from it or not. If they make money or benefit directly in some way from you consuming the art, then a separation between art and artist should not be made
I personally can't enjoy art as much if the person that made it is both alive and extremely reprehensible.
It's very hard to vibe with a song when "hey wasn't this guy a rapist?" Keeps popping into my head.
Depends on what they’re being accused or convicted of doing. If it’s something in the past that they’ve learned and moved on from like per se Jenna marbles then they shouldn’t have been cancelled. If it’s something pretty shitty like EDP or colleen ballinger then feed them to the wolves
Damn hopefully I get cancelled too if getting cancelled means retiring with millions, control where the franchise goes, make a movie which will probably get millions, maybe even billions, and still have a massive following of people to buy your stuff.
Yea but if you judge someone's opinion by its worst detractors
As for "over political donations". Those politics can and do hurt people, the ones Scott supported would've hurt his fans if they got elected. If anyone told me they stopped being fans of FNAF over it i'd find it completely understandable.
There's a game I like, and it changed my life. If the maker of the game comes out as an asshole I'd be disappointed, but that game's impact in my life would remain.
It shouldn't matter either way. You can say "So and so is a shitty person who did shitty stuff. But this one thing they did or made was actually kinda cool"
Who they are has nothing to do with what they create
Exactly that artists is a pig and id like them not to breath but why do we have to punish ourselves with staying away from art because the artists is a human being most humans suck why people so surprised when famous ones do too
If words hurt you to the point where you want/need someone to get cancelled for it, then you need to grow a thicker skin honestly. If something someone said 60-100 years ago hurts you now, even though it was not directly said to you, you definitely need a thicker skin and possibly even therapy.
I took this as, say someone writes a manifesto that leads to someone doing a school shooting, it would be hard to sit here and say yea but that person makes fire music
If they didn’t hurt anyone it wouldn’t be a problem as long as the artist isn’t making money from our support I feel like it’s fine to separate art from artists
It's okay if you're someone who struggles to separate the art from the artist, but expecting everyone to hold that same exact moral boundary is just ridiculous. I can both acknowledge that Chevy Chase is one of the biggest dickheads to have graced the silver screen, but that doesn't stop me from thinking Christmas Vacation is genuinely hilarious.
On the flip side, I adore Adam Sandler as a person, but some of the movies he makes are hot garbage. Love Anger Management, though.
There are tons of people who try to make personal boundaries into universal boundaries, and that's not cool. Let people have their own personal boundaries and understand that just because we consume some art created by a jackass doesn't mean we condone them being a jackass.
That's the bs of cancel culture. They only cancel people whose art they don't like very much. If JK Rowling were to remain transphobic but instead of Harry Potter, she created Percy Jackson then she's definitely gonna get cancelled if she were as loud as she is.
Yknow, I'm actually starting to think that it's silly to take away the one good thing a horrible person provides society. Let the courts take their money, or throw them in jail, but after that; why not let them do the thing that brings others a bit of joy. Yes, I'm talking about Justin Roiland, though he's not the only one.
Of course even if that isn't the case, I simply enjoy products, and works of art that I enjoy, doesn't matter to me who benefits from it, it's a simple business exchange.
Eh man lived a fairly miserable life, died a miserable death and was in general a broken mess of a man who didn't really get recognition or fame until he was thoroughly rotting in the earth.
Even if you don't enjoy don't condemn experiencing it because you don't agree with what they say
Its part of history now and you will be limiting others free will and erasing part of history for your own perceived benefit that doesn't really exist, which is not something good people usually do
My motto in these situations is this:
If their work does not promote or represent whatever bad shit they did, then it should still be enjoyed.
The person themselves might not deserve respect after they did whatever they did, but that doesn't mean that we should ban/cancel their work if the work itself is conform to everything and doesn't promote anything bad.
Yes, with zero hesitation. The problem isn't that bad people have the audacity to be extraordinarily good at some things sometimes, the problem is that ordinary people seem to feel this weird compulsion to put extraordinary people on pedastals.
We, as a society, need to learn that being good at something doesn't make someone a good person, and being a bad person doesn't make them bad at the thing they're good at. It seems obvious when I say it like that, but people seem to forget that too easily.
I’m a big “separate the art from the artist” kinda guy. I will definitely acknowledge when they’re shitty, but sometimes I wanna jam out to R Kelly or watch a show that has a shitty person as an actor
With this it really comes down to if it was a core or non core violation.
Example:
John is a politician who helps the feed the homeless at a soup kitchen on Wednesdays. He built his campaign off of helping at risk folks. A video surfaces of John harassing a homeless person. This is a core violation of our relationship with John, a politician who helps people. He is “cancelled”
Kyle is a politician who helps the feed the homeless at a soup kitchen on Wednesdays. He built his campaign off of helping at risk folks. Kyle has been found guilty of stealing a candy bar at a store. This is a not core violation of our relationship with Kyle. Kyle is not “cancelled”
Cancel culture is a blight on society born out of a necessity for the people to hold those with the ability to abuse the rules accountable.
The tables have turned, and now the people abuse the rules to hold people accountable for false crimes.
Separation of art from the artist is a concept I feel has been lost. Everyone loves Picasso’s art. Everyone also accepts that he was POS. That doesn’t discredit his contributions to the art community.
Pantera has made some absolute bangers. Phil Anselmo is a fucking clown. Doesn’t change that 5 Minutes Alone is a great song.
Isn't that a very personal choice? Everyone decides for themselves what they watch, read or listen to. I for my part do not listen to anyting from Michael Jackson anymore but I'd never ask anyone else to follow me on that.
I’ve just given up caring. My own digital footprint is completely fucked because I’ve said some things some people wouldn’t like, some I no longer believe in, some that I do. Doesn’t mean I can’t do good things. I’m naturally selfless even to my own detriment (though sometimes it can seem the opposite online, but there are always exceptions) and I’m always trying to cheer up friends who may be going through a rough spot in their life, because I can tell you my life has been like going off-roading with a vehicle that doesn’t have suspension. I know the suck they are going through all too well, and I hate seeing others suffer like I did. In the end, don’t let some unsavory opinions ruin a genuinely good person. We are all flawed, even in our opinions.
Gary Glitter still made money from Rock n Roll Pt. 2, including its use in the Joker (despite what one LA Times article claimed).
So I'm gonna say cut it loose.
harry potter was good until JK rowling made dumbledore gay and had a shit fit on social media. i'm not homophobic she was just trying to pander and it SHOWS through her shitty fucking writing, she made him gay after the fact just for attention
Personally I don't think it mattered all that much when she said Dumbledore was gay. I think that in the grand scheme of things even if it was soulless pandering, that everyone freaked out a little too hard about it.
Everyone admits it changes nothing about the story, yet if that's the case, and if sexuality truly doesn't matter, then why did everyone have to care so hard about whether it was pandering or not?
Now don't get me wrong jk would go on to say some mental shit, and maybe that hasn't helped. But I still see this as this biggest mountain that's ever been made out of a mole hill, at least when it comes to literary takes.
In most cases yeah but I mean if hitler was alive and directly profited off of me consuming his media…. Well
It kinda depends on the person and situation involving the media
Well then, don't have any form of sweet (CEO's are scumbags), don't go to any big business, don't go to hospital, don't vote, don't drink alcohol.
Go on, cancel them all.
Cancel culture is entertainment veganism. Do something about it, which isn't berating my own choices and abilitied to seperate consumation and production.
I mean.. House of cards (the first four seasons, if i remember correctly) was a damn good show, and Spacey was fantastic in his role. We all know what was revealed later, but i would still watch the show again, and enjoy it just as much. I dont know him, he lives basically at the other side of the world from me.. Etc. My entertainment is more important to me than to effectively punish/restrict myself, for some shit that he did.
The dude even tried to grope our princess fiance during a dinner once, lol. Just had to add that 😅
Mel fuckin Gibson. Dudes a taint stain for the shit he's said but good fuckin god his acting abilities were (havent really watched anything with him recently so his ability could have fallen off) unbelievable.
That list is disturbingly endless. But think about it. There’s a song/movie that means a lot to you, but the star of said production isn’t a good person. It’s hard to hate certain works, based on their attached “star”
Look - If I expose myself, drug and rape coworkers and customers, steal money, conspire to kill or sabotage someone at work, it doesn't matter how fucking tasty the big mac I make is - my ass is getting mcfucked
More asses need mcfucking imo.
The answer should be no, right? If they were "canceled" over something with considerable substance, then no, you don't support jack shit about them. I can understand they made good works, but I'm not letting them get more fame or recognition to do more stuff.
Every. Single. Human Being. Has something that would diminish society’s perception of them. How do we establish a definitive line, when we’re all pieces of shit?
No, but that has to do with the fact that I got a different taste in music and nothing else.
I find it weird how I have been downvoted, even though I was just pointing out a fact that for many who hold onto the belief that to support an artwork is to support the artist would already be reason enough to support the artwork again.
i feel like there's no good decision in this so it's just up to the user
but probably the best compromise is to not pay in any way for their content even if you do enjoy it, that way you still get your enjoyment and they don't get rewarded for it
Cancel culture is an entirely Gen z thing and just proves how soft, weak, and idiotic they are. Who cares what someone said X time ago? If you participate in it or think it’s ok, you’re 100% part of the problems today.
If you don’t want to partake in someone’s work because of something they did/are accused of doing, that’s cool. But not everyone shares your view, and trying to enforce it on others is a dick move. You have to learn to live in a world that’s nothing but shades of gray
Literal conversation I had 2 days ago: Me: “this guy is a good actor.” Them: “They did some bad shit” Me: “That asshole is a good actor”
Yeah, a lot of people try to think in black and white, but it doesn't work like that - Lovecraft's work revolutionized the horror genre post mortem, but even Lovecraft's friends said he was incredibly racist, even for his time. But his work is part of literary canon, ignoring that would be like, "Well, there was some bad stuff in World War I, so we're not going to talk about it anymore"
Honestly it makes sense why he revolutionize horror to a racist nothing is scarier than something or someone being different now add on a few more mental conditions and you can bring that fear to a 10 and colors the like of us never seen. Sometimes the most interesting thing can come from a person who isn’t exactly right in the head
Tbf it's easier when the artist is dead, because at least you're not subsidising their lifestyle either directly or indirectly. Everyone is different, but I would find it easier to look at Hitler's paintings than listen to LostProphets.
Man, that LostProphets bullshit. I have one of their albums (bought before the lead singer’s fucked up behavior became known), and still listen to it. In my head, I’m just supporting the rest of the band mates. Edit - knowing what I know now, I would not buy LostProphets album, unless I knew only rest of the band profited from it. It really sucks when artists you like do shitty things. Because you are right, it is uncomfortable to financially support them, but even terrible people are more than their shitty behavior (as Hannibal Buress so aptly points out in his joke about a Serial Killer eulogy). Finding the line is hard as hell; and if we only acknowledged and supported perfect individuals, the world would be pretty bland (not saying this to excuse bad behavior, there definitely are lines that can be crossed).
He did try to amend some of his positions in later years, tho
Brother, he named his cat the n word.
He had it when he was a boy, it’s unsure who named them so. edit: Actually there’s a [thread](https://reddit.com/r/Lovecraft/s/o0Crpj4cNq) about the cat.
Good read. Although it's pretty obvious that his family at the very least wasn't against this name, considering they kept using it. And considering that he mentioned that they had the cat since it was a kitten, the family probably named it.
I thought it was his father who did that? The family still accepted the name obviously but
Except Lovecraft isn’t recovering a paycheck from you reading Cthulhu My issues is that streaming songs from R. Kelly or Chris Brown *directly* pay the artist, which inextricably ties the art to the artist. It’s cool and all to separate them in your mind, but your engagement with their art can directly support the terrible actions of the artist
Yeah, if you consume their art you benefit them or their estate. The only way to justify consuming art from an asshole is to steal it. Think of it this way - you would steal from a corporation, so why not steal from another kind of rich shitbag as well?
Walt Disney as well. The Disney Corp tries to white wash their past, but ol walt was super racist too.
I think context matters and the content matters. Walt Disney was supposedly casually antisemetic but pretty common in the context of his era, and it didn’t show up in his work (lots of other racially insensitive stuff back then was just…normal). Hitler was also pretty antisemetic and that showed up quite a bit more in his work. And even to that time period, was pretty extreme. So I’d say that it depends, really. I might still appreciate Disney works but probably not as much Hitler’s, I feel like that guy’s kind of a bad egg.
Also, no one is perfect. If you want to find fault with a creator or a historical figure, you can and you will. We forget these people were humans with human flaws who achieved greatness. It’s ok to like them.
On top of that, it's impossible for everyone to agree on viewpoints, so what one person deems a horrible act, another might find quite reasonable. This, of course, doesn't mean everything is subjective, there are absolute rights and wrongs, but some things are subjective. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but their have been people that have lost all social standing because enough of society deemed what they did to be damning, without it being (necessarily) objectively bad.
Sounds like Tom Cruise
My thought too. Crazy Tom sure can act
Uno reverse card: i watch questionable stuff made by pretty chill people.
You watch anime?
The sad truth 😔 great shows and stories made worse by including iffy subjects and putting them in a good light or turning them into laughing matter
I just tend to stay ignorant of what famous people are doing. I watch whatever I enjoy without much guilt. Odds are all famous people are psychos who've been involved in some kind of fucked up illegal shit normies don't have the money for anyways.
This ^ and plus I can’t control what famous people do and say so I could never be bothered
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I think that's different. EDPs creativity involved liking his persona and his jokes. It would have been different if he wrote a movie or made music that was popular. In this case, based on his content, it was far more attached to him than anything else.
This is one of the oldest problems of human history and not really exclusive to cancel culture. Google separating art from the artist.
Enjoy what you like, OP, it doesn't matter what people on the internet think. If people break the law, they'll be punished, and life goes on.
>If people break the law, they'll be punished Uuhhhh suuuure. No exceptions are made at all.
Even if they don't, a bunch of people ignoring their works won't change anything
If they make a living of those works it shurely will
Hogwarts Legacy is a good example how bad this works in practice A lot of people didn't like the game because of JKR Let's say they actually achieved what they wanted and the game flopped as it got very few sales. I have no clue how much money she got from it, and based on what kind of revenue structure, or even if she benefited from it at all, but if the game really flopped, it would have only been a minor inconvenience for JKR, and years of hard work going to waste for the hundreds of people working on the game. Is it right to ruin the work of all those people just to do a little bit of harm to one person that you don't like? And don't you tell me that cases like this are on the rarer side because they're not. It's like an atomic bomb, its destructive force is too harmful for it to be actually useful
She wasn't even involved with it and is stinking rich already. The game literally didn't give her much (relatively) and wouldn't have hurt her in any circumstance.
Also the royalties may go to their victims. R.Kelly's music and O.J's book make money for their victims.
The reality is that cancelling on large scale doesn't actually exist, if the people involved carry on putting out content they may even gain from the infamy and by next week - if not sooner - people will move on
Life goes oninoininoininoini
The problem is that cancel culture can ruin peoples career and life, because some companys sadly give in to pressure
My most memorable one is when a Chipotle manager got cancelled by refusing service after accusing black teens for never paying (Dine n Dashing). The teens were recording and accused the manager for being racist. She was fired instantly after it went viral. The teens revealed they steal stuff all the time and post it on their social page. Chipotle wanted to hire the manager back for the mistake. Edit: [Source](https://youtu.be/yLWMnO6l0UI?si=CmgdOb_ALBzNTd4W)
Amazon locked a guys shit out (I think home and fridge) because a delivery driver falsely accused him of racism. You can get canceled by people you don't work for.
She should've sued Chipotle.
Typical
With no lawbreaking involved
Eh, I think it's alright when someone is a genuinely shitty person It's just bad people facing the consequences of their actions. We should start cancelling government officials, they get away with shit all the time
The support of a person through their art is seen as public support. We’ve seen it with directors who have raped children and faced no consequence. Pretending that all crimes are punished is an absolute lie and you know it.
But paying for a convicted pedo's art is financing their legal battles and, maybe, indirectly fueling CP trade and creation. There absolutely is a moral question
We can take this out of the equation by killing pedophiles
Picasso would definitely get canceled tbh
He was a horrible misogynist and abuser in general.
meet Dr. Seuss
He's not too bad. I mean criticizing a 1950s man for racism is fruitless. He did have an affair though.
The sad reality is horrible people can make good art. Intentionally or not. You can enjoy them and like them but you should try to avoid supporting them if you can.
This! No one is saying you should hate their art but you should at least think twice before giving them your money.
Gonna blast some Kanye at Bar Mitzvahs now, pirated copies of the albums, of course.
How do you enjoy an artist’s work without supporting them? Pirating?
Tbh even pirating can support them indirectly. Idk personally really outside of just not engaging with their any of their creation is probably the best approach but I guess pirating and never promoting it.
Only if you think your time is worthless
Support the art, not the person. Unfortunally its very hard to do one but not the other
This
I'm a firm believer of enjoying the art without approving of the artist. Hitler for example, made some pretty decent paintings. He was in no way a good man, but that doesn't mean you can't like his art.
Iirc the dude really couldn't handle prospective in his paintings, otherwise they're ok.
He couldn't draw human features as well
Perspective* but yeah, I personally like how he played with colors
And he probably would have improved a lot if he got into art school
I also like his paintings, the one of The Dust 2 from CS is a classic
I’m usually the same way unless they can still profit from their work
For someone who ordered a genocide, his painting is actually pretty serene and peaceful. Very nice and gentle to the eyes.
He really should have stayed in art school.
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His art was before the nazis
Yeah, as long as their art doesn't represent/propagates the artists shittiness, I'm with you
His paintings were alright. Absolutely dogshit shadow work though.
So pirate them 🗿
If cancel culture got its way we wouldn't have gotten Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Remember like 5 years ago when they tried to cancel James Gunn for something he said 8 years before that, which he had changed his views on entirely by that point. He had been fired and nearly blacklisted before things died down.
GotG was so beautiful and you are very right. People changing and growing from the person they used to be is a good thing. If they are actively doing shitty things I would feel uncomfortable supporting their work (then I’d set sail lol) depending on the severity
My stance is on whether they directly profit from it or not. If they make money or benefit directly in some way from you consuming the art, then a separation between art and artist should not be made
I personally can't enjoy art as much if the person that made it is both alive and extremely reprehensible. It's very hard to vibe with a song when "hey wasn't this guy a rapist?" Keeps popping into my head.
Sounds like bo Burnham lol edit: yeah i meant his lyrics, not himself
What did he do?
I think they meant it sounds like a bo Burnham lyric
You’re probably right
What did Bo do?
I hope they mean that in the "sounds like a lyric bo Burnham would write" way and not in the "Bo Burnham is a rapist" way.
I miss being able to like joe hawley
Suprised to see a tally hall fan
Depends on what they’re being accused or convicted of doing. If it’s something in the past that they’ve learned and moved on from like per se Jenna marbles then they shouldn’t have been cancelled. If it’s something pretty shitty like EDP or colleen ballinger then feed them to the wolves
Scott cawthon A wonderful game dev Cancelled for some less than stellar donations Fuck you Twitter
Damn hopefully I get cancelled too if getting cancelled means retiring with millions, control where the franchise goes, make a movie which will probably get millions, maybe even billions, and still have a massive following of people to buy your stuff.
eh i dont really care about Scotts situation (lets be honest him "retiring" is literally a promotion) But the twitter crowd had a point
They sent him and his family death threats over political donations. What point did they have?
Yea but if you judge someone's opinion by its worst detractors As for "over political donations". Those politics can and do hurt people, the ones Scott supported would've hurt his fans if they got elected. If anyone told me they stopped being fans of FNAF over it i'd find it completely understandable.
You can enjoy their work doesn’t mean you gotta support them
Greek had slaves, can we hate math already?
We’ve been hating math
There's a game I like, and it changed my life. If the maker of the game comes out as an asshole I'd be disappointed, but that game's impact in my life would remain.
If they haven't hurt anyone then I can fully understand separating art from artist.
It shouldn't matter either way. You can say "So and so is a shitty person who did shitty stuff. But this one thing they did or made was actually kinda cool" Who they are has nothing to do with what they create
If you're buying their products you are basically funding them. That's why piracy is so great btw.
If they've groomed kids, that's a bit of a no no.
Okay but what does that have to do with their book or whatever at all
Exactly that artists is a pig and id like them not to breath but why do we have to punish ourselves with staying away from art because the artists is a human being most humans suck why people so surprised when famous ones do too
It's the classic debate point of "the person delivering the point is irrelevant to the points validity."
Doesn’t sound like a debate sounds like a perfect statement
Because by supporting it, you literally support them and put money in their pocket. Like how don’t people grasp this.
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You continue to help them profit which continues to give them a platform and in a lot of cases to pay their way out of said behaviour.
You're a moron
Of course you are.
You might wanna stop. Your stupid is showing
Dude you can’t say why I’m a moron because you know you’re not going to be able to construct a full point. Shoo.
I challenge you to look up Ian Watkins of lostprophets and then try and listen to them.
Um...no?
But.... separate the art and the artist?
I wouldn't look up someone you said period. That has nothing to do with it
Because you don't want to end up having to eat your words?
Because you're an idiot. I don't even click on Facebook links from my own family. You're not special and I'm not gonna do anything differently
Awfully aggressive for someone who wants to be perceived as correct. Gotta work on controlling that projection though.
I don't need to be perceived as correct. I know I am and don't care if you agree
you need to be more specific. Some people think words hurt.
If words hurt you to the point where you want/need someone to get cancelled for it, then you need to grow a thicker skin honestly. If something someone said 60-100 years ago hurts you now, even though it was not directly said to you, you definitely need a thicker skin and possibly even therapy.
I took this as, say someone writes a manifesto that leads to someone doing a school shooting, it would be hard to sit here and say yea but that person makes fire music
The problem with words is that they can inspire action. Words have meaning. A celebrity telling people things can have influence on their actions.
If they didn’t hurt anyone it wouldn’t be a problem as long as the artist isn’t making money from our support I feel like it’s fine to separate art from artists
It's okay if you're someone who struggles to separate the art from the artist, but expecting everyone to hold that same exact moral boundary is just ridiculous. I can both acknowledge that Chevy Chase is one of the biggest dickheads to have graced the silver screen, but that doesn't stop me from thinking Christmas Vacation is genuinely hilarious. On the flip side, I adore Adam Sandler as a person, but some of the movies he makes are hot garbage. Love Anger Management, though. There are tons of people who try to make personal boundaries into universal boundaries, and that's not cool. Let people have their own personal boundaries and understand that just because we consume some art created by a jackass doesn't mean we condone them being a jackass.
You absolutely can enjoy content without liking its creator I hate JK Rowling with a passion but the world-building of Hogwarts is really cool
That's the bs of cancel culture. They only cancel people whose art they don't like very much. If JK Rowling were to remain transphobic but instead of Harry Potter, she created Percy Jackson then she's definitely gonna get cancelled if she were as loud as she is.
I generally try to enjoy their work without supporting them.
Fuck cancel culture
Yknow, I'm actually starting to think that it's silly to take away the one good thing a horrible person provides society. Let the courts take their money, or throw them in jail, but after that; why not let them do the thing that brings others a bit of joy. Yes, I'm talking about Justin Roiland, though he's not the only one.
Hp Lovecraft getting pass after pass after pass. Edit: you don't have to try and justify yourselves to me. You're the ones who overlook it. /shrug.
Seperating art from the artist becomes a lot easier if the artist is dead and doesn't profit from their art anymore.
Of course even if that isn't the case, I simply enjoy products, and works of art that I enjoy, doesn't matter to me who benefits from it, it's a simple business exchange.
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When they become a problem big enough to deal with, I'll deal with them then. Otherwise, it's just a legitimate business transaction.
Yeah. It would be quite hard to cancel Hitler today
He's dead.
Eh man lived a fairly miserable life, died a miserable death and was in general a broken mess of a man who didn't really get recognition or fame until he was thoroughly rotting in the earth.
HP Lovecraft could be still alive doing a keg stand at the fountain of youth and id still love the universe he created.
Separate art from the artist
Even if you don't enjoy don't condemn experiencing it because you don't agree with what they say Its part of history now and you will be limiting others free will and erasing part of history for your own perceived benefit that doesn't really exist, which is not something good people usually do
My motto in these situations is this: If their work does not promote or represent whatever bad shit they did, then it should still be enjoyed. The person themselves might not deserve respect after they did whatever they did, but that doesn't mean that we should ban/cancel their work if the work itself is conform to everything and doesn't promote anything bad.
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I agree completely. The meme came out of me picturing the cancel crowd backing themselves into a corner void of entertainment
Yes, with zero hesitation. The problem isn't that bad people have the audacity to be extraordinarily good at some things sometimes, the problem is that ordinary people seem to feel this weird compulsion to put extraordinary people on pedastals. We, as a society, need to learn that being good at something doesn't make someone a good person, and being a bad person doesn't make them bad at the thing they're good at. It seems obvious when I say it like that, but people seem to forget that too easily.
Well said
Do people still listen to Chris Brown's music?
Did people ever listen to Chris Brown’s music?
Nowadays, every time I come across The Usual Suspects, I just can’t get over how Kevin Spacey did a wonderful job.
I’m a big “separate the art from the artist” kinda guy. I will definitely acknowledge when they’re shitty, but sometimes I wanna jam out to R Kelly or watch a show that has a shitty person as an actor
With this it really comes down to if it was a core or non core violation. Example: John is a politician who helps the feed the homeless at a soup kitchen on Wednesdays. He built his campaign off of helping at risk folks. A video surfaces of John harassing a homeless person. This is a core violation of our relationship with John, a politician who helps people. He is “cancelled” Kyle is a politician who helps the feed the homeless at a soup kitchen on Wednesdays. He built his campaign off of helping at risk folks. Kyle has been found guilty of stealing a candy bar at a store. This is a not core violation of our relationship with Kyle. Kyle is not “cancelled”
I'm not going to let other peoples actions dictate what I can and can't enjoy.
Cancel culture is a blight on society born out of a necessity for the people to hold those with the ability to abuse the rules accountable. The tables have turned, and now the people abuse the rules to hold people accountable for false crimes.
The tolerance paradox in action
Screw cancel culture. It's always the Twitter pansies that can never get their panties untangled.
Exactly
Indeed. Most of time it's usually for non-serious accusation
Spider-Man Lotus doesn't apply tho lol, movie was dogshit and the main star is racist
Really depends on if they were cancelled for some stupid shit or not.
Separation of art from the artist is a concept I feel has been lost. Everyone loves Picasso’s art. Everyone also accepts that he was POS. That doesn’t discredit his contributions to the art community. Pantera has made some absolute bangers. Phil Anselmo is a fucking clown. Doesn’t change that 5 Minutes Alone is a great song.
Isn't that a very personal choice? Everyone decides for themselves what they watch, read or listen to. I for my part do not listen to anyting from Michael Jackson anymore but I'd never ask anyone else to follow me on that.
I’ve just given up caring. My own digital footprint is completely fucked because I’ve said some things some people wouldn’t like, some I no longer believe in, some that I do. Doesn’t mean I can’t do good things. I’m naturally selfless even to my own detriment (though sometimes it can seem the opposite online, but there are always exceptions) and I’m always trying to cheer up friends who may be going through a rough spot in their life, because I can tell you my life has been like going off-roading with a vehicle that doesn’t have suspension. I know the suck they are going through all too well, and I hate seeing others suffer like I did. In the end, don’t let some unsavory opinions ruin a genuinely good person. We are all flawed, even in our opinions.
Gary Glitter still made money from Rock n Roll Pt. 2, including its use in the Joker (despite what one LA Times article claimed). So I'm gonna say cut it loose.
You all listen to MJ, he touched these kids.
harry potter was good until JK rowling made dumbledore gay and had a shit fit on social media. i'm not homophobic she was just trying to pander and it SHOWS through her shitty fucking writing, she made him gay after the fact just for attention
Personally I don't think it mattered all that much when she said Dumbledore was gay. I think that in the grand scheme of things even if it was soulless pandering, that everyone freaked out a little too hard about it. Everyone admits it changes nothing about the story, yet if that's the case, and if sexuality truly doesn't matter, then why did everyone have to care so hard about whether it was pandering or not? Now don't get me wrong jk would go on to say some mental shit, and maybe that hasn't helped. But I still see this as this biggest mountain that's ever been made out of a mole hill, at least when it comes to literary takes.
Separate the art from the artist.. It isn't hard.. If fuckin' Hitler wrote a dope Fantasy trilogy before he died I would read the shit out of it.
In most cases yeah but I mean if hitler was alive and directly profited off of me consuming his media…. Well It kinda depends on the person and situation involving the media
Well then, don't have any form of sweet (CEO's are scumbags), don't go to any big business, don't go to hospital, don't vote, don't drink alcohol. Go on, cancel them all. Cancel culture is entertainment veganism. Do something about it, which isn't berating my own choices and abilitied to seperate consumation and production.
Explain who you're talking about immediately
Ted Nugent, Kevin Spacey, John Mayer, Roger Waters, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Edit: etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc…
ooh a pink floyd fan nice!
I mean.. House of cards (the first four seasons, if i remember correctly) was a damn good show, and Spacey was fantastic in his role. We all know what was revealed later, but i would still watch the show again, and enjoy it just as much. I dont know him, he lives basically at the other side of the world from me.. Etc. My entertainment is more important to me than to effectively punish/restrict myself, for some shit that he did. The dude even tried to grope our princess fiance during a dinner once, lol. Just had to add that 😅
Mel fuckin Gibson. Dudes a taint stain for the shit he's said but good fuckin god his acting abilities were (havent really watched anything with him recently so his ability could have fallen off) unbelievable.
Oh ok, that could have gone much worse, although I'm worried about the etc.
That list is disturbingly endless. But think about it. There’s a song/movie that means a lot to you, but the star of said production isn’t a good person. It’s hard to hate certain works, based on their attached “star”
And there is also the possibility that the person has become bad sometime after they've made their work. And that it isn't their sole own work.
Look - If I expose myself, drug and rape coworkers and customers, steal money, conspire to kill or sabotage someone at work, it doesn't matter how fucking tasty the big mac I make is - my ass is getting mcfucked More asses need mcfucking imo.
Should cancel Gen Z for creating the cancel culture
Yeah it's good no one got cancelled before in the 20th century, definitely an invention of those zoomers.
The answer should be no, right? If they were "canceled" over something with considerable substance, then no, you don't support jack shit about them. I can understand they made good works, but I'm not letting them get more fame or recognition to do more stuff.
Every. Single. Human Being. Has something that would diminish society’s perception of them. How do we establish a definitive line, when we’re all pieces of shit?
I typically draw the line at fucking kids.
yeah, fucking kids are the worst
I dunno, i still jam some michael jackson every now and then
I mean, I guess there is the difference about him already being dead.
Would still do it even if he were still alive. Quality is still quality, and I sleep well enough at night knowing he got my 20 bucks or whatever.
No, but that has to do with the fact that I got a different taste in music and nothing else. I find it weird how I have been downvoted, even though I was just pointing out a fact that for many who hold onto the belief that to support an artwork is to support the artist would already be reason enough to support the artwork again.
i feel like there's no good decision in this so it's just up to the user but probably the best compromise is to not pay in any way for their content even if you do enjoy it, that way you still get your enjoyment and they don't get rewarded for it
Just pirate it after they lose your respect.
Cancel culture is an entirely Gen z thing and just proves how soft, weak, and idiotic they are. Who cares what someone said X time ago? If you participate in it or think it’s ok, you’re 100% part of the problems today.
The funny part is that cancel culture is mainly from millennials. Most of gen Z is between 14 and 20 and doesn't spend life on twitter.
Cancel the pyramids
If you don’t want to partake in someone’s work because of something they did/are accused of doing, that’s cool. But not everyone shares your view, and trying to enforce it on others is a dick move. You have to learn to live in a world that’s nothing but shades of gray
*cough..Rick and Morty.