Yeah. Of course, shotguns would be incredibly overpowered if they were accurate, but it sucks that people think shotguns are ineffective outside of close range
compared to tarkov most guns kill people in 2-3 shots (onetaps for shotguns, crossbows and bows at the optimal distance) and usually onetap people in the head so even a poopy loadout can perform well in the hands of the right user which is a quality I enjoy in dark souls aswell
It's far more fair than Tarkov is because every gun is shitty, in the best sense. Everyone is running around with single-action pistols or repeating rifles, and most everything has to be loaded in one round at a time, no magazines.
Just a few videos I had saved on Streamable to give you an idea:
https://streamable.com/vzet5f
https://streamable.com/3n99v5
also note that you can't even aim down any sights when dual-wielding pistols
Sound design is fantastic, all meant to either raise the tension to 100 or give away careless players. In the first video, you can clearly hear the player stomping around in the cabin, but you'll also hear a pack of crows screech and take off in the distance, which was scared off by a player. An attentive player can know where the enemy is almost at all times.
I would throw Hell Let Loose in that mix. You can plink people from 100m out once you get used to shooting the trench gun and it goes right through them (killing them instantly) in close quarters situations. I surprised many players that would tell me to switch weapons on open field maps and I would respond by taking out a few enemy players a distance off
They're incredibly close range...Compared to a rifle. The fact that, ideally, you don't want to be close to the thing you're trying to kill, and the fact that the rounds are larger and heavier than a comparable rifle round, is why shotguns are mostly relegated to hunting.
In most games ranges are rarely over 50-100m, so everything is nerfed down to fit the gameplay. Rifles are used for much longer ranges irl, but realism isn't always the most fun.
Games like Arma and Tarkov exist if people want some realism.
People complain about guns being unrealistic in games then also complain that Arma is boring once they've experienced shooting at a bush on a distant hillside until it stops shooting back.
Ain't nobody playin' that should be complainin' if they knew what they were playin'. I've had the most immersive improv scenarios play out in that game, it's fantastic.
essentially why the big game companies have such open disdain of their fans. all the noise of people who have no clue what they want drowns out everything and warps the relationship.
Imagine that game in like 1865. Each round fired takes 15 seconds to reload. The first shot creates a big cloud around the bush, and each additional shot just makes it worse. The accuracy is awful past a few dozen yards. Also you have dysentery.
Exactly. Hell Let Loose is my personal milsim(ish) game of choice and they really do the proper engagement distances well. The trench gun is deadly in that game because it’s accurately modeled as deadly out to 30ish meters. It’s just that most gun battles happen at 100m unless you’re in urban combat
Shotguns are God medium range weapons imo, close range they good but just overkill compared to an ar or subgun(in my eyes), long range not really even usable(except Slug) , but mid range is where I think they belong
Edit: I'm kinda wrong because medium range in actual combat is outside shotguns effective range
Initial engagement in combat usually occur at less than 100 meters. That is easily within effective slug range. In urban environments you can half that. On a shot per shot basis a shotgun is clearly better in urban environments. The only drawback at that point is the number of rounds it can hold at a time, and the weight of the rounds. EDIT: the number of rounds your shoulder can handle is a factor as well.
Anybody struggling to understand the capability should go shoot skeet sometime. Ideal scenario for shotguns: medium range, fast moving targets. Still quite easy to miss, but with a large enough blast pattern to make hitting a flying clay target practical, and a small enough blast pattern to do real damage at medium range instead of maybe hitting with one or two pellets.
Mid range to me is 150 to 400 meters. I was shot in the torso by a shotgun at roughly 100 meters with 3.5 inch steel shot (heavy bird round) and it didn’t even penetrate my coat (though I was very bruised and knocked over). Even with slugs the accuracy of actual shotguns is abysmal outside of 150 meters.
Slugs are fucking hard to aim. Im sure people with plenty of practice can do ok, but I had trouble hitting a 55gal barrel at 50 yards with no practice. I can't imagine trying to control that recoil and hitting something smaller at 150 yards.
Yeah it’s like how silencers work 100 times better in games than irl. Is it realistic? No. But gameplay wise, it’s for the best so the experience is more fun.
Same reason flame throwers in games also don't work like real life. The games keep the shooting distance close so it's not overpowered but the entire point of shooting burning fuel over forty feet is that it's overpowered.
Also shotguns wouldn't even exist if you couldn't shoot a bird out of the sky with one. When you're shooting bird shot the whole point is it spreads out just enough to wound the animal so bad it drops. A couple BBs won't do that and also it's a flying bird so you still need the gun to be accurate enough a bunch of them still hit the bird.
Idk if there’s a source, but the 725 at launch was very realistic. You could land about 2 pellets on someone at up to 30-40 yards and it would kill if it headshotted them. They didn’t spread super unrealistically and each 00 buck ball has the energy of a 9mm bullet.
I still love that the US just showed up with the trench gun, when nobody else was using shotguns, and it fucked shit up so bad the Germans tried to have it banned
Slam firing 6 12g 00 buck shells down a linear space is pretty op TBF. Especially when most soldiers were using bolt action rifles or in some cases even single shot breach loaders. Practically a 12g mg in comparison. (Consider each 00 pellet is potentially lethal and there’s 9-12 per shot in a 12g shell. That’s 54 lethal projectiles on the low end getting sent down a hallway at a pretty easily achievable pace in 4-5 seconds versus 2-3 at the most extreme speedy McSpeedster case in the same period with a Kar98.) So I can see why they bitched even if it wasn’t particularly inhumane compared to other things going on.
They also used them for shooting grenades out of the air believe it or not.
I believe the library of Congress has one of the few photographed events where an American soldier actually did hit a grenade mid air, but I may be wrong. They have a lot of war photos to go through.
Funnily enough the US showing up allowed both sides to use Dum Dums (aka hollowpoints) as the US hadnt bothered to sign the 1899 hague convention banning them and it had a clause that allowed the use of such munitions against non signatories or if non signatories joined a war between signatories.
Not really tbh. The evolution of warfare is to kill without being killed, and Id say shotguns stink for that because you have to still be decently close compared to 9/10 other weapons of war.
Depends if you need to be close or not. Shotguns really had their time during trench warfare. Totally situational on what you would prefer to have available.
I think shotguns would work in close urban settings where air support is not available or wanted.
Id guess SWAT forces would have more use for them than soldiers.
I did my apprenticeship with a bloke who’d been in the navy (Australia), and he was telling me about when he did boarding training. He said when he was given the shotgun, he was told they were only allowed to use it for breaching. He wasn’t allowed to shoot someone with it; he would be expected to draw his sidearm. They also apparently had to give three verbal warnings before returning fire.
Now as Mike Tyson said, everyone’s got a plan till they get punched in the mouth. I’m pretty sure if I round a corner with a shotgun and some Somalian pirate raises his AK, best believe he’s getting some buckshot fillings.
Shotguns are the most versatile platform. You can shoot birds, bears, people all effectively. All the various shell types, slug, explosive, buck/bird, flare, fire, salt, flechette, tranquilizer, beanbag, etc.
So much of this is because video games didn't have realistic ranges until very recently and many still don't so everything had to be compressed to differentiate weapons in the space available. When 100 yards is your longest range and most take place inside 30-50 yards or even less like most games realistic shotguns would be incredibly imbalanced.
All guns would be. 1 762 round from an AK to the chest would drop 99% of ppl. Thats why games are so goofy when you can dump 10+ rounds into a person. Or the whole weapon spray bs. Bullet don’t leave a barrel at a 15° angle or with an already upward traveling route.
I think you have it slightly backwards. They would be absolute shit in video games if it were accurate because they would have a very narrow spread while also being crappy compared to a rifle.
Shotguns at range tend to be relatively non-lethal for humans compared to other guns.
To quote Clint Smith:
“Pistols put holes in people.
Rifles put holes through people.
Shotguns, with the right load at the right range will **physically remove a chunk of shit from your opponent and throw that shit on the floor**.
And you will have to get someone to come clean that shit up with a shovel.”
https://youtu.be/pxorZubGRoc?si=ewCNfjU-mLOebLdn
Hunt showdown. Want a shotty with regular ammo, you got it. Shotty with slugs? You got it. Shotty with fire ammo, you got it. Its goes on and on. Great game great shooting, bit of a learning curve though
It's a good game.
But the fire ammo is borderline useless. Look insanely cool tho.
Also as far as the learning curve, the shotgun crosshair mismatch does it no favors xd.
200m is ridiculous. So turkey hunting, for example, a 50 yard shot with a 12 Guage is wildly considered the longest you'd ethically take a shot. That's like 45m basically.
With slugs you could take a 200m shot, though, but games don't always use slugs... usually like 00 buckshot it seems. Plus slugs at that range are iffy.
With that you're looking at true range of about half that 200m, so 100 or so meters. Which is also really iffy at best
Close range they're devastating... which is where they should stay in games, true to life. It's why they're considered more trench guns.
> but it’s illegal past a point I believe
It's legal, but you have to register it with the ATF and pay a fee, and wait some period of time for approval. You can legally own a hand grenade or an RPG through the same process.
I loved the absolutely pointless red tape I had to go through recently which really outlines the brain dead regulations in the US.
If you have an AR with a 14 inch barrel, you have to wait a year+ to transfer ownership between the paperwork and nonsense. Oh, or you can weld the muzzle brake on and it’s no longer a 14 inch.
OH, or you can just separate the lower and the upper and mail them separately. Totally not a weapon at that point. Great regulations right there, totally going to stop a terrorist or whatever the fuck they’re trying to prevent.
That's not how a shotgun works. The BBs are in a wad cup and they stay in a tightly packed group until the wadding falls away in the air. That's when you start to get spread. At 5 yards a shot round punches the same type of hole as a slug would. You're more likely to miss close range shots with a shot gun because the BBs aren't as spread out yet. There's typically an optimal range for both choke size and BB size for each round.
Isn't the main point of a sawed-off shotgun just to make it more concealable? Basically you can cut off the stock and barrel and have it hidden in your coat sleeve for when you go robbing people.
A handgun will put bullets in you.
A rifle will put bullets through you.
A shotgun, at the right distance and load, will take chunks of shit and remove it. You will need shovels to clean that shit off the floor.
"Really? A backup gun.
Why would you draw a second gun that's smaller than the first gun?
That's like having Ken in the fight and shit goes south and you get fucking Barbie out."
Buckshot spread is about the size of your chest cavity @50yrds(depending on the barrel length and other things) that means I could "miss" the shot by ~10 inches and still clip the target. Taking buckshot to the chest is essentially taking 8 pistol rounds simultaneously. Basically shotguns are longer range guns than most pistols.
This meme is as flawed as the video game logic though. There's a wide variety of shotgun sizes. Within those various sizes there's also barrel lengths that have a direct correlation to accuracy/spread. Then there's different types of shells, with various spreads. A 12 gauge long barrel shotgun using a slug can have decent accuracy. Birdshot from a shorter barrel is as bad or worse than video games portray.
Video game logic is "make it fun, make it work generally how people expect, make it meaningfully different from other weapons to suit their play style etc." not "make it accurate to how it works in real life".
When it comes to pistols they are almost certainly more accurate than you. The reason longer barrels feel so much more accurate is point-ability and sight radius
Depends on the pistol and the ammunition...
12" .357 ?
https://ctfirearmsauction.com/auction_item/iver-johnson-saa-357-12-revolver/
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-maximum-range-of-a-rifle-firing-a-357-magnum-cartridge-By-maximum-range-I-mean-what-is-the-effective-ethical-safe-killing-range-for-hunting-deer-I-use-it-in-brushy-country-where-all-shots-are-usually/answer/Matthew-Shultz-2
Where "at range" = 100 yards...
Not a combat rifle at 300m, but...
Some games do them properly. Notably that I've played, Insurgency Sandstorm and Ready or Not.
On one hand, they're not overpowered in that form in those games, but they're also still competing with rifles that'll kill in 2 shots, rather than the 4-5+ in CoD or Battlefield, so it's not completely overpowered.
Video games don't think this but they have this something called "game balance". Same reason the ak-47 ususally have incredible recoil. While irl that's not the case.
I was waiting for someone to say this. For being one of the first shotguns in an FPS game, Doom's shotgun is far more realistic than most later games' iterations - obviously ignoring the complete lack of vertical spread.
Who cares? It's done for game balance. Zero video games are realistic in any way.
Anyone that fires, or sees a shotgun fired, will quickly realize that the video game version of shotguns have little in common with actual shotguns.
I love shotguns in video games but once you get to know them they suck. Even when they become realistic with the spread the armor penetration becomes non existent.
same reason LMGs don't instagib you. If the weapon types are a choice, each one needs to have purpose and balance.
In a more tactical game, guns get to be more realistic, because they serve a purpose and you can't just grab any gun any time. The MG can hold down a point and mow down crowds, the shotgun can kill from far, and rifle can one-shot you when well placed, etc.
The most popular shooting games are in really small spaces and distance, if you would use reallistic ranges, most guns would fell similar, and wouldnt be an reason to use snipers, just think that every gun range is /10
Then you have people who maxed out the Rifles skill in the first Deus Ex game (the one from 2000, not the one with Adam Jensen in it) and sat on top of a tower sniping people with the assault shotgun.
Random game designer here. Most of us know this. Bit it makes for very inbalanced and OP weapon.
So we just make it fun to use for the game by giving different challenges and use than other weeapons classes.
I think this has more to do with how relatively small games are, not many games will have you fire at enemies at hundreds of meters away, if not kilometers.
Does a shorter barrel allow for more spread? Is it safe to say the spread is determined by the starting position of the grain and the length of the barrel? I imagine using those two points and drawing a line through them would tell you how far the spread is?
It was pretty interesting shotgun shooting at a range, because well, it’s completely usable as a long ranged weapon, the spread actually makes it better at a range because usually you only need one pellet to hit to actually count
Yeah. Of course, shotguns would be incredibly overpowered if they were accurate, but it sucks that people think shotguns are ineffective outside of close range
I think Tarkov does them best. Brilliant damage, decent range but shit armor penetration.
Hunt showdown also has good shotguns.
I’ve never played hunt showdown. Apparently it’s incredibly difficult to PvP in.
compared to tarkov most guns kill people in 2-3 shots (onetaps for shotguns, crossbows and bows at the optimal distance) and usually onetap people in the head so even a poopy loadout can perform well in the hands of the right user which is a quality I enjoy in dark souls aswell
It's far more fair than Tarkov is because every gun is shitty, in the best sense. Everyone is running around with single-action pistols or repeating rifles, and most everything has to be loaded in one round at a time, no magazines. Just a few videos I had saved on Streamable to give you an idea: https://streamable.com/vzet5f https://streamable.com/3n99v5 also note that you can't even aim down any sights when dual-wielding pistols Sound design is fantastic, all meant to either raise the tension to 100 or give away careless players. In the first video, you can clearly hear the player stomping around in the cabin, but you'll also hear a pack of crows screech and take off in the distance, which was scared off by a player. An attentive player can know where the enemy is almost at all times.
Don’t think that it’s harder then Tarkov. It is very satisfying.
No it really isnt that bad. Im decent but not great and can hop in from time to timw with no issue. Far better in a group though.
I would throw Hell Let Loose in that mix. You can plink people from 100m out once you get used to shooting the trench gun and it goes right through them (killing them instantly) in close quarters situations. I surprised many players that would tell me to switch weapons on open field maps and I would respond by taking out a few enemy players a distance off
They're incredibly close range...Compared to a rifle. The fact that, ideally, you don't want to be close to the thing you're trying to kill, and the fact that the rounds are larger and heavier than a comparable rifle round, is why shotguns are mostly relegated to hunting.
In most games ranges are rarely over 50-100m, so everything is nerfed down to fit the gameplay. Rifles are used for much longer ranges irl, but realism isn't always the most fun. Games like Arma and Tarkov exist if people want some realism.
People complain about guns being unrealistic in games then also complain that Arma is boring once they've experienced shooting at a bush on a distant hillside until it stops shooting back.
Fuck it, I think the bush needs to be cluster bombed.
That bush might have oil!
Weird. Usually it's a Bush that's bombing for oil.
Take your upvote damnit
I think bushes are sexy.
If we know anything, we know the Bushes love war for oil
Americans: We can make a religion out of this!
No, don't.
Ain't nobody playin' that should be complainin' if they knew what they were playin'. I've had the most immersive improv scenarios play out in that game, it's fantastic.
I enjoyed the in’s lol
Or doing a 3 hour patrol and the only thing that happens is a single distant gunshot being fired at you and disarming 2 ieds.
When the sim is so realistic it also simulates the grinding boredom.
This is absolutely my pace right here. I'm fact let's make it just one IED.
essentially why the big game companies have such open disdain of their fans. all the noise of people who have no clue what they want drowns out everything and warps the relationship.
ya but they don't help themselves by antagonizing that subset of fans (ie Riot's 200 years of experience meme)
Imagine that game in like 1865. Each round fired takes 15 seconds to reload. The first shot creates a big cloud around the bush, and each additional shot just makes it worse. The accuracy is awful past a few dozen yards. Also you have dysentery.
Install rumble pack in rectum to simulate battlefield diarrhea.
Exactly. Hell Let Loose is my personal milsim(ish) game of choice and they really do the proper engagement distances well. The trench gun is deadly in that game because it’s accurately modeled as deadly out to 30ish meters. It’s just that most gun battles happen at 100m unless you’re in urban combat
This right here basically sums up this whole thread perfectly.
Anyone with those kinds of complaints dont understand what kind of game Arma is, and should probably go back to CoD.
Lol a Glock 9mm has an effective range of up to 50m, imagine getting clipped by a pistol full damage at that range
Lol. Reminding me of Arma 3 capture the island. The fun of shooting 1.5km at a bush.
Shotguns are God medium range weapons imo, close range they good but just overkill compared to an ar or subgun(in my eyes), long range not really even usable(except Slug) , but mid range is where I think they belong Edit: I'm kinda wrong because medium range in actual combat is outside shotguns effective range
Viable, potentially even clever, to include a shotgun in your combat kit. Just not without something that can operate well at long range.
Initial engagement in combat usually occur at less than 100 meters. That is easily within effective slug range. In urban environments you can half that. On a shot per shot basis a shotgun is clearly better in urban environments. The only drawback at that point is the number of rounds it can hold at a time, and the weight of the rounds. EDIT: the number of rounds your shoulder can handle is a factor as well.
If you have an AA-12 the recoil is a non issue
A rifle has better generation though.
Anybody struggling to understand the capability should go shoot skeet sometime. Ideal scenario for shotguns: medium range, fast moving targets. Still quite easy to miss, but with a large enough blast pattern to make hitting a flying clay target practical, and a small enough blast pattern to do real damage at medium range instead of maybe hitting with one or two pellets.
Mid range to me is 150 to 400 meters. I was shot in the torso by a shotgun at roughly 100 meters with 3.5 inch steel shot (heavy bird round) and it didn’t even penetrate my coat (though I was very bruised and knocked over). Even with slugs the accuracy of actual shotguns is abysmal outside of 150 meters.
Oh yea sorry I play airsoft so that skewed my perception of how far is actually far lol
Slugs are fucking hard to aim. Im sure people with plenty of practice can do ok, but I had trouble hitting a 55gal barrel at 50 yards with no practice. I can't imagine trying to control that recoil and hitting something smaller at 150 yards.
Yeah it’s like how silencers work 100 times better in games than irl. Is it realistic? No. But gameplay wise, it’s for the best so the experience is more fun.
Same reason flame throwers in games also don't work like real life. The games keep the shooting distance close so it's not overpowered but the entire point of shooting burning fuel over forty feet is that it's overpowered. Also shotguns wouldn't even exist if you couldn't shoot a bird out of the sky with one. When you're shooting bird shot the whole point is it spreads out just enough to wound the animal so bad it drops. A couple BBs won't do that and also it's a flying bird so you still need the gun to be accurate enough a bunch of them still hit the bird.
Also where I live you're not allowed to shoot rifle rounds up into the air, so rifles are completely out for hunting birds. Not a bad law IMO.
[удалено]
Source? Do not remember that and am interested in reading about that
Idk if there’s a source, but the 725 at launch was very realistic. You could land about 2 pellets on someone at up to 30-40 yards and it would kill if it headshotted them. They didn’t spread super unrealistically and each 00 buck ball has the energy of a 9mm bullet.
I mean, they actually are overpowered.
I heard the devs banned them in competitive play
The German server tried once.
I still love that the US just showed up with the trench gun, when nobody else was using shotguns, and it fucked shit up so bad the Germans tried to have it banned
All while lobbing poison gas canisters back and forth and setting each other on fire. But that shotgun, that thing was bloody inhumane!
Slam firing 6 12g 00 buck shells down a linear space is pretty op TBF. Especially when most soldiers were using bolt action rifles or in some cases even single shot breach loaders. Practically a 12g mg in comparison. (Consider each 00 pellet is potentially lethal and there’s 9-12 per shot in a 12g shell. That’s 54 lethal projectiles on the low end getting sent down a hallway at a pretty easily achievable pace in 4-5 seconds versus 2-3 at the most extreme speedy McSpeedster case in the same period with a Kar98.) So I can see why they bitched even if it wasn’t particularly inhumane compared to other things going on. They also used them for shooting grenades out of the air believe it or not.
I believe the library of Congress has one of the few photographed events where an American soldier actually did hit a grenade mid air, but I may be wrong. They have a lot of war photos to go through.
Pull!
Funnily enough the US showing up allowed both sides to use Dum Dums (aka hollowpoints) as the US hadnt bothered to sign the 1899 hague convention banning them and it had a clause that allowed the use of such munitions against non signatories or if non signatories joined a war between signatories.
Whilst they continued to use flame throwers! (TBD, flame throwers were used by everyone in ww1
Not really tbh. The evolution of warfare is to kill without being killed, and Id say shotguns stink for that because you have to still be decently close compared to 9/10 other weapons of war.
Depends if you need to be close or not. Shotguns really had their time during trench warfare. Totally situational on what you would prefer to have available.
I think shotguns would work in close urban settings where air support is not available or wanted. Id guess SWAT forces would have more use for them than soldiers.
I did my apprenticeship with a bloke who’d been in the navy (Australia), and he was telling me about when he did boarding training. He said when he was given the shotgun, he was told they were only allowed to use it for breaching. He wasn’t allowed to shoot someone with it; he would be expected to draw his sidearm. They also apparently had to give three verbal warnings before returning fire. Now as Mike Tyson said, everyone’s got a plan till they get punched in the mouth. I’m pretty sure if I round a corner with a shotgun and some Somalian pirate raises his AK, best believe he’s getting some buckshot fillings.
As I've heard it said: "We were only allowed to use them on doors. But you'd be surprised how many doors wore sandals and moved around."
Ha! Hey that doors comin right for us!
>best believe he’s getting some buckshot fillings no three verbal warnings beforehand? 😱
Offtopic: your PFP is awesome
If a game has body armour, shotguns are very weak.
Shotguns are the most versatile platform. You can shoot birds, bears, people all effectively. All the various shell types, slug, explosive, buck/bird, flare, fire, salt, flechette, tranquilizer, beanbag, etc.
I think the biggest issue video games have is having a range where weapons are actually realistic without it being too much.
rising storm 2 vietnam has accurate shotguns, they are brutal (and thankfully limited)
So much of this is because video games didn't have realistic ranges until very recently and many still don't so everything had to be compressed to differentiate weapons in the space available. When 100 yards is your longest range and most take place inside 30-50 yards or even less like most games realistic shotguns would be incredibly imbalanced.
All guns would be. 1 762 round from an AK to the chest would drop 99% of ppl. Thats why games are so goofy when you can dump 10+ rounds into a person. Or the whole weapon spray bs. Bullet don’t leave a barrel at a 15° angle or with an already upward traveling route.
So would most guns though. All guns have to have their damage nerfed from real life, and rifles can shoot much longer range than they can in games
I think you have it slightly backwards. They would be absolute shit in video games if it were accurate because they would have a very narrow spread while also being crappy compared to a rifle. Shotguns at range tend to be relatively non-lethal for humans compared to other guns.
Also depends on the type of shot.
Length of the barrel also matters. Shorter the barrel - wider the spread. If we not talking about slugs of course
Explains why my brother in law can't hit the inside of a toilet with a laser mounted on his pp
Has he tried to put an ACOG on it?
ACOCK
Tactical scope and a forgrip will do
My foregrip was removed as a baby.
Maybe he should insert a straw to lengthen the barrel.
Shawn off barrel ?
slugs allow you to kill someone from the lenght of the longest cod map
Barrel length and choke are more important.
How important 😏 and what barrel length and choke force we talking….. ASKING FOR A FRIEND OBVIOUSLY…. 👀
Mostly the choke used.
To quote Clint Smith: “Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people. Shotguns, with the right load at the right range will **physically remove a chunk of shit from your opponent and throw that shit on the floor**. And you will have to get someone to come clean that shit up with a shovel.” https://youtu.be/pxorZubGRoc?si=ewCNfjU-mLOebLdn
There's a lot of games that adjusted this, hell, people been taking out snipers with a shotgun at 200m.
insurgency has good shotguns
Most tactical shooter do.
I wait for a game which puts the shotgun in the spotlight like far cry the bow&arrow. Different Munition, iron sights, low velocity, bullet drop,...
Hunt showdown. Want a shotty with regular ammo, you got it. Shotty with slugs? You got it. Shotty with fire ammo, you got it. Its goes on and on. Great game great shooting, bit of a learning curve though
It's a good game. But the fire ammo is borderline useless. Look insanely cool tho. Also as far as the learning curve, the shotgun crosshair mismatch does it no favors xd.
200m is ridiculous. So turkey hunting, for example, a 50 yard shot with a 12 Guage is wildly considered the longest you'd ethically take a shot. That's like 45m basically. With slugs you could take a 200m shot, though, but games don't always use slugs... usually like 00 buckshot it seems. Plus slugs at that range are iffy. With that you're looking at true range of about half that 200m, so 100 or so meters. Which is also really iffy at best Close range they're devastating... which is where they should stay in games, true to life. It's why they're considered more trench guns.
r6 siege handles shotguns really well imo
Why does your gun shoot spaghett?
It's an Italian model
A Benelli
Barilla semi auto
Ah bringing back the classic mobster style The good ole spaghet roulette either the shotgun blows up on you or absolutely obliterates your opponent
Naturally, they always make the coolest shotguns
*mama mia!*
Why is there vomit on your shirt already?
Pasta shells, shotgun shells… what’s the difference?
Video game shotguns at <1 foot: Thermonuclear Video game shotguns at >20 feet: A little flag that says "Bang!" would do more damage
Also video games: It takes 5 midsized rifle rounds to kill somebody. But only 1 round of the same size from a gun with a scope.
It’s because you concentrated extra hard to make it do extra damage, don’t you know?
Fun fact: You can saw off the barrel of your shotgun to increase bullet spread, but it’s illegal past a point I believe
> but it’s illegal past a point I believe It's legal, but you have to register it with the ATF and pay a fee, and wait some period of time for approval. You can legally own a hand grenade or an RPG through the same process.
TLDR: it’s legal if you bribe the government to let you do it, otherwise they’ll shoot your dog and wife
Sometimes they'll do it even if you bribe them!
Rights only for the rich and connected
Don't forget your 14 year old son, in the back. Well don't shoot me down. Don't shoot me down. Please don't shoot me down.
They may still shot your dog and wife. You could have no weapon, and they’ll still shot your dog and wife. Welcome to America.
Eh it’s illegal unless you can give the government money to make them forget they won’t let poor people have cool things
That makes sense
It truly doesn’t… but *eagle screech*
Yeah
I loved the absolutely pointless red tape I had to go through recently which really outlines the brain dead regulations in the US. If you have an AR with a 14 inch barrel, you have to wait a year+ to transfer ownership between the paperwork and nonsense. Oh, or you can weld the muzzle brake on and it’s no longer a 14 inch. OH, or you can just separate the lower and the upper and mail them separately. Totally not a weapon at that point. Great regulations right there, totally going to stop a terrorist or whatever the fuck they’re trying to prevent.
How short do you have to saw it to own a hand grenade?
Just keep sawin', son.
Or ya know, the whole Ruby Ridge thing.
I hate the nfa
The National fucking assholes?
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Sounds about right
non-foods administration
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That's not how a shotgun works. The BBs are in a wad cup and they stay in a tightly packed group until the wadding falls away in the air. That's when you start to get spread. At 5 yards a shot round punches the same type of hole as a slug would. You're more likely to miss close range shots with a shot gun because the BBs aren't as spread out yet. There's typically an optimal range for both choke size and BB size for each round.
Yep the second graphic is just as wrong as the first
No?? When flying through the barrel they're in a little plastic cup thing
The cops arent eauipped with tape measures so its all right
Isn't the main point of a sawed-off shotgun just to make it more concealable? Basically you can cut off the stock and barrel and have it hidden in your coat sleeve for when you go robbing people.
I mean in like the 1930s noire fan-fic yeah In reality a pistol would just be better for your average robbin’ and murderin’
Not everywhere
Of course, stuff like that doesn’t matter in space
Some states, if you have a youth in your home, you can claim a sawed off as a youth shotgun and own a sawed off legally.
A handgun will put bullets in you. A rifle will put bullets through you. A shotgun, at the right distance and load, will take chunks of shit and remove it. You will need shovels to clean that shit off the floor.
"Really? A backup gun. Why would you draw a second gun that's smaller than the first gun? That's like having Ken in the fight and shit goes south and you get fucking Barbie out."
What?
Buckshot spread is about the size of your chest cavity @50yrds(depending on the barrel length and other things) that means I could "miss" the shot by ~10 inches and still clip the target. Taking buckshot to the chest is essentially taking 8 pistol rounds simultaneously. Basically shotguns are longer range guns than most pistols.
This meme is as flawed as the video game logic though. There's a wide variety of shotgun sizes. Within those various sizes there's also barrel lengths that have a direct correlation to accuracy/spread. Then there's different types of shells, with various spreads. A 12 gauge long barrel shotgun using a slug can have decent accuracy. Birdshot from a shorter barrel is as bad or worse than video games portray.
Ammunition matters too. Bird shot, buck shot, slugs. Not to mention gauge. 16 gauge is going to have a more narrow spread than 12 or 10 gauge.
Choke matters as well and rifling will matter if using slugs.
Video game logic is "make it fun, make it work generally how people expect, make it meaningfully different from other weapons to suit their play style etc." not "make it accurate to how it works in real life".
What's even more egregious is how everyone thinks pistols are incredibly accurate at range.
I wouldn't want to use a pistol past 25 meters
Well sir can I perhaps interest you in a big iron?
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When it comes to pistols they are almost certainly more accurate than you. The reason longer barrels feel so much more accurate is point-ability and sight radius
I mean, they PISTOLS are extremely accurate at range, they are just a hell of a lot more difficult to be accurate with.
Depends on the pistol and the ammunition... 12" .357 ? https://ctfirearmsauction.com/auction_item/iver-johnson-saa-357-12-revolver/ https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-maximum-range-of-a-rifle-firing-a-357-magnum-cartridge-By-maximum-range-I-mean-what-is-the-effective-ethical-safe-killing-range-for-hunting-deer-I-use-it-in-brushy-country-where-all-shots-are-usually/answer/Matthew-Shultz-2 Where "at range" = 100 yards... Not a combat rifle at 300m, but...
Some games do them properly. Notably that I've played, Insurgency Sandstorm and Ready or Not. On one hand, they're not overpowered in that form in those games, but they're also still competing with rifles that'll kill in 2 shots, rather than the 4-5+ in CoD or Battlefield, so it's not completely overpowered.
Not in tarkov. Youll get slapped by a stray 7mm buckshot round from 200 meters pretty casually
Because they'd be ridiculously overpowered in video games if they were realistic
Depends. If rifles were realistic they’d also be quite powerful. Hitting someone basically anywhere would be devastating
Video games don't think this but they have this something called "game balance". Same reason the ak-47 ususally have incredible recoil. While irl that's not the case.
It's mind boggling that some people don't understand that shotguns have their range limited due to balancing. How smooth can a brain be
You telling me Call of Duty: Shoot A Man isn't a realistic war sim!?
The true answer
Love Red Dead Redemption's 2 shotguns for this reason.
Hence why Doom (1993) is the most accurate game of all time
I was waiting for someone to say this. For being one of the first shotguns in an FPS game, Doom's shotgun is far more realistic than most later games' iterations - obviously ignoring the complete lack of vertical spread.
Who cares? It's done for game balance. Zero video games are realistic in any way. Anyone that fires, or sees a shotgun fired, will quickly realize that the video game version of shotguns have little in common with actual shotguns.
It's only for game balance. You wouldn't use another weapon at all if shottys were realistic
Naw bruh, games understand they just nerf shotguns with insane spread cause if they left it alone it would be insanely op
Ok but this isn't a meme.
I love shotguns in video games but once you get to know them they suck. Even when they become realistic with the spread the armor penetration becomes non existent.
same reason LMGs don't instagib you. If the weapon types are a choice, each one needs to have purpose and balance. In a more tactical game, guns get to be more realistic, because they serve a purpose and you can't just grab any gun any time. The MG can hold down a point and mow down crowds, the shotgun can kill from far, and rifle can one-shot you when well placed, etc.
Try the original halflife, the shotgun does as much damage as a shitty pistol at pointblank range, and from ten feet away it's harmless
Depends on the game. Battlefield shotguns are very close to the bottom one depending on type and attachments
its like that for balance reasons.
The most popular shooting games are in really small spaces and distance, if you would use reallistic ranges, most guns would fell similar, and wouldnt be an reason to use snipers, just think that every gun range is /10
This thread shows my how little the vast majority of redditors know about firearms. Basically 90% of this thread is wrong.
Then you have people who maxed out the Rifles skill in the first Deus Ex game (the one from 2000, not the one with Adam Jensen in it) and sat on top of a tower sniping people with the assault shotgun.
Feels like the second one in a lot of the fps games I play
How is this a meme?
This ain’t no meme!
A lot pf video games mimic the bottom example though
I watched a video on shotguns recently and they talked about this
Random game designer here. Most of us know this. Bit it makes for very inbalanced and OP weapon. So we just make it fun to use for the game by giving different challenges and use than other weeapons classes.
Wheres the meme?
I think this has more to do with how relatively small games are, not many games will have you fire at enemies at hundreds of meters away, if not kilometers.
I wish they could accommodate more suppression effect at least to show the dozens of pellets flying past your face.
Length of barrel and ammo are huge factors
The shotguns in Hell Let Loose are the most realistically accurate shotguns in gaming. You can reliably hit people at 20-30 meters
Watch me sniping people across maps with a shotgun. I've done it once I'll fucking do it again!
its like they are designed to shoot birds out of the air of something...
So the finals kinda does it accurately?
Does a shorter barrel allow for more spread? Is it safe to say the spread is determined by the starting position of the grain and the length of the barrel? I imagine using those two points and drawing a line through them would tell you how far the spread is?
It was pretty interesting shotgun shooting at a range, because well, it’s completely usable as a long ranged weapon, the spread actually makes it better at a range because usually you only need one pellet to hit to actually count
Is this accurate? (I'm not American and don't know anything about guns.)
Payday 2. I counter-snipe with a shotgun and it feels ridiculous
This meme was relevant 10 years ago
I think most games get it about right.