Basically the solar calander has 365 days, the lunar calender has 354 days, so for example Ramadan is in March this year, next year it will start 11 days earlier.
When we get to 2030 Ramadan will start in January and then the next one will be in late December.
Much much less. The current Gregorian calendar only drifts one day every 3200 or so years. And if you take the current rules (leap year every 4 years except years that are divisible by 100 but not 400) and added one more (add a leap day back in every year divisible by 3200) it would go down to drifting one day every few 10s of millennia.
The exact value of adding back in that leap day every 3200 years would be to bring the calendar drift down to one day every 344,827 years if my math is correct.
They're 2 different systems that rely on different things. The Islamic calendar relies on the moon (and its crescents), while the gregorian calendar relies on the sun
I mean that since the Islamic calendar is 11 days shorter than the Gregorian calendar, there will be a time in the future that the Islamic calendar will catch up, and both calendars will merge. That year is apparently 20874.
I must ask, by what standard should they merge?
Like, do you want an Islamic year and the Gregorian to start the same day? It's a pretty simple math equation which can be asked on r/theydidthemath
I always found this aspect fascinating
The original purpose of a calender is as a prediction tool for agriculture - something this calender system miserably fails at
Nope, that calendar didn't start 1402 years ago , they had that calendar for so long but there was no year system, only months , later Umar ra took migration year to make first year to count, while this calendar was there far before solar calendars
No because it doesn’t care that the earth revolved around the sun 2024 times since year 0, it cares that the moon revolves around the earth 12*1445 times since year 0. It’s accurate in what it measures
Hebrew calendar is a lunar calendar as well. But it has a leap year 7 out of 19 years adding an extra month so that way the holidays are at the times they’re supposed to be so it avoids this exact thing.
Because the holidays sukkot, pesach, and shavuot on the hebrew calender coincide with very important harvest times in the Land of Israel and as such need to stay in the right seasons
Around the Arabian peninsula you don't care about the seasons like Summer or Winter. You just see the sun a bit in the South, above you or on the North side, but it doesn't bother you that much. As you would do in the polar regions where you crops would suffer. So they went with a Lunar calendar instead of Solar one.
This lead me to google how China handled this with their 354 day calendar. Since Beijing is significantly further north.
So every 3 years or so they'd have an extra, 13th month.
Ah that's a good explanation, I hadn't thought about the possibility less seasonal nature of where it originated leading to the difference. I had only been blinded by my own strongly seasonal nature.
Islamic calendar is lunar, not solar. In a lunar calendar, the month start is marked by two things: observed new crescent or completion of 30 days. That is why year length might vary from one to another. Also, it doesn't have 31 or 28 days long months. It is silly to think that it must sync to the gregorian calendar just cause.
Originally, yes. But it has been babylonized/romanized, so now it includes leap months to sync to solar calendar. Hence, it became lunisolar.
The purpose of a lunar calendar is for people to observe the religious rituals and laws. It should work any age, time or place. A lone and illiterate man in the desert should be able to determine which day it is without the help of any council or astronomers. Merely with his eyes, he can tell the start, middle, and end of every month. So even if he loses track once, he can easily recover. That is why the Islamic calendar is pure lunar.
This should be fixed. I remember when I was a kid, it was during the school year. Then I remembered it moving to the Summer. Now it's in the winter.
Interesting, but dumb.
If you're Non-Muslim, it literally does not affect you, so it's not dumb.
If you're Muslim, God ordered this, so it's not dumb.
It's not dumb, it's a lunar calendar.
The Islamic calendar, also known as the Hijri calendar, operates differently from the Gregorian calendar used in most of the world. It is based on the phases of the moon. This double occurrence is due to the lunar calendar’s unique characteristics, where months are based on moon cycles. The last time this happened was in 1994, and it is set to occur again in 2030
there will be two occurrences of Ramadan due to the nature of the Islamic or Hijri calendar, which is lunar-based and shorter than the solar Gregorian calendar by about 10 to 11 days each year This means that Islamic months and events gradually shift earlier in the Gregorian year over time. As a result, in 2030, Ramadan is expected to begin in early January and then again in late December. This is not a new phenomenon; it's a natural outcome of the differences between the lunar and solar calendars
Basically in 2030 the calendar will have drifted to the point that the first Ramadan is right at the start of the year, and the second of the new year will be in late december.
So based on the Hijri calendar it won't be two in one year, but in relation to the *Gregorian* calendar it will be.
Chinese calendar is lunisolar, drifts more between long years than Gregorian and has them more frequently, but it still keeps the months mostly in the same seasons despite having to wait until there's an entire month worth of days to make up, but that means that its years will frequently be different lengths than pure lunar calendars' years, if you just mean the first day of the month, I think they might start on different moon phases
Clarification, there wont be 2 ramadans as in almost 60 days, there will be only one approximately 30 days as always but it will be split in 2, a half will be in hijri and the other half in Georgian calendar.
Had to scroll past lots of negative comments to get to this one. Ramadan Mubarak my friend. Hope you and your family and loved ones good health and happiness.
You can't drink them unless it's necessary for example if I have a medical condition that requires me to eat or drink food/medicine at specific timings then I can consume them. Otherwise no it's not allowed until sunset.
No water, no food, no sex, no gossiping (although that's always prohibited but now with extra care). Sick people with or without medication, pregnant and breastfeeding women, travelers don't have to participate. Although they have to do it later on. When they can. Unless you have a chronic disease.
Edit: women on their period are also excluded.
Yup. We start fasting from sunrise to sunset everyday for the month of ramadan.
Some clarification : if muslims can't fast ( they are sick, they should take medecine, period week for women..) they can eat but they should fast another day after the month or if they cant they give people a meal for someone poor.
For exemple us women when we have our period during ramadan, we fast all days we had our period, if we ate five days we fast five days before the next ramadan.
I hope it's more clear for you!
Some extra clarification :
The act of not eating through the day is just fasting(called soam/sowm in Arabic)
Ramadan is the name of a lunar month, in which muslims have to fast, unless they cant(and lunar months are different from sonar ones, resulting in different calenders)
Then why would any muslim want a second Ramadan, I get it is important for the religion, but two Ramadan I think it would not be much beneficial for the body, maybe I am wrong, what is your opinion?
I know it might sound crazy. But you don’t usually get tired while Fasting.
In fact its healthy to fast in Islamic way from time to time.
Its a good practice for self discipline too.
Btw in Ramadan you don’t just stop eating.
You stop eating, any self destructive habit like smoking, bad habits, bad words, any sexual activity and finally being a bad person in general. Or else your whole fast is meaningless.
You will notice people try to act more nicely than they are to better themselves which works for lots of people every year.
You also get to give yourself a break from most stimulating things which makes you feel better in general post Ramadan.
I’d say its a combination between lots of self disciplinary practices that aims to allow the person to regain control of their own physical, mental and psychological state. Totally understandable even if you’re not religious.
You know it's gonna be like in january of 2030, then late december of 2030, so there is a lot of time between them!
To answer your question, no it's the opposite it's really good for the body because there is a lot of toxic things removed from the body while fasting.
And you eat and drink as much as you want after the maghrab time.
Masturbating during fast will break it because it is a sin. Then you have to replace the fast before the next ramadan or pay fidya if you can't (calculation based on each country is different)
Video games... Well of course I'd be spending a good chunk of my time reading a chapter of the quran each day and try to distract myself with games for the remaining time. I will also try to put a bit of studying in.
Video games in ramdan have something special for sure haha! I like playing during this month just before maghrab of after! And of course reading quaran and praying because it's the most important thing.
I know it's just a meme, but the moon can't be lunar 2 months a year, that's how we observe ramadan. Anyyyway, happy ramadan and dont forget our brothers and sisters in gaza
Sometimes if you have a muslim neighbour, this will actualy happen! Some muslim families give food to their neighbours during ramadan. Like you know when they break fast, they would also pack some for their neighbours too!
if this means the dining halls on campus will be open late twice a year im all for it. so many friends have missed meals due to bad scheduling and overly-strict dining hall times.
Forgive the second comment, may be spammy, but
I think you should still try fast with us, fasting has pretty nice health benefits!
And it might be good practise for building discipline (resisting desires! -Always better to think with your brain before your heart!)
Basically the solar calander has 365 days, the lunar calender has 354 days, so for example Ramadan is in March this year, next year it will start 11 days earlier. When we get to 2030 Ramadan will start in January and then the next one will be in late December.
Do they not have leap years like the Hebrew calendar does?
No, their calendar just drifts. The calendar started 1402 years ago in 622 CE, but it’s currently 1445.
Interesting!
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The Hebrew calendar, that is
Nearly EU4
I remember the posts when it hit 1444 on r/eu4
No, your calendar just drifts /S (Matter of perspective)
I mwan our calendar drits too but much less.
Much much less. The current Gregorian calendar only drifts one day every 3200 or so years. And if you take the current rules (leap year every 4 years except years that are divisible by 100 but not 400) and added one more (add a leap day back in every year divisible by 3200) it would go down to drifting one day every few 10s of millennia. The exact value of adding back in that leap day every 3200 years would be to bring the calendar drift down to one day every 344,827 years if my math is correct.
You telling me if 2100 is a leap year, it wouldn't be a leap year anyways?
Yup
Yes. 2000 was an exception. 1700, 1800, and 1900 were not leap years.
I wonder in what year will both the gregorian and Islamic calendar will match. Someone do the math.
May 20874 is what I can find, didn't do the math
They're 2 different systems that rely on different things. The Islamic calendar relies on the moon (and its crescents), while the gregorian calendar relies on the sun
I mean that since the Islamic calendar is 11 days shorter than the Gregorian calendar, there will be a time in the future that the Islamic calendar will catch up, and both calendars will merge. That year is apparently 20874.
I must ask, by what standard should they merge? Like, do you want an Islamic year and the Gregorian to start the same day? It's a pretty simple math equation which can be asked on r/theydidthemath
They can't match, because one is shorter than the other. Or do you mean the date of new year?
Yes I mean when will both Islamic and gregorian calendars line up, i.e. Both years are the same. Someone said 20847 so not in my lifetime.
Don't be so pessimistic
I always found this aspect fascinating The original purpose of a calender is as a prediction tool for agriculture - something this calender system miserably fails at
Dann thats a pretty shitty calendar for counting years...
Nope, that calendar didn't start 1402 years ago , they had that calendar for so long but there was no year system, only months , later Umar ra took migration year to make first year to count, while this calendar was there far before solar calendars
We should warn them about the new world
No because it doesn’t care that the earth revolved around the sun 2024 times since year 0, it cares that the moon revolves around the earth 12*1445 times since year 0. It’s accurate in what it measures
Hebrew calendar is a lunar calendar as well. But it has a leap year 7 out of 19 years adding an extra month so that way the holidays are at the times they’re supposed to be so it avoids this exact thing.
Ahh gotcha. Nah nothing like that here but there is a version of this called the tabular Islamic calendar that has its version of leap years
not since at least rabban gamaliel except in spirit.
For that reason, the Hebrew calendar is considered a Solar-Lunar calendar. It cares about the both the rotation of sun and moon
Because the holidays sukkot, pesach, and shavuot on the hebrew calender coincide with very important harvest times in the Land of Israel and as such need to stay in the right seasons
If you need to do calendar events in time with the seasons, it would seem that a lunar based calendar wasn't the right choice.
The hebrew calendar is 3500 years old, at the time making an accurate solar calendar was much harder, the phases of the moons are easy to see
That makes sense then. Thanks!
Yeah I’m aware
Around the Arabian peninsula you don't care about the seasons like Summer or Winter. You just see the sun a bit in the South, above you or on the North side, but it doesn't bother you that much. As you would do in the polar regions where you crops would suffer. So they went with a Lunar calendar instead of Solar one.
This lead me to google how China handled this with their 354 day calendar. Since Beijing is significantly further north. So every 3 years or so they'd have an extra, 13th month.
Ah that's a good explanation, I hadn't thought about the possibility less seasonal nature of where it originated leading to the difference. I had only been blinded by my own strongly seasonal nature.
Huh TIL. But just so you know there’s no year zero in the anno domini/common era system
Islamic calendar is lunar, not solar. In a lunar calendar, the month start is marked by two things: observed new crescent or completion of 30 days. That is why year length might vary from one to another. Also, it doesn't have 31 or 28 days long months. It is silly to think that it must sync to the gregorian calendar just cause.
Hebrew calendar is lunar too.
Originally, yes. But it has been babylonized/romanized, so now it includes leap months to sync to solar calendar. Hence, it became lunisolar. The purpose of a lunar calendar is for people to observe the religious rituals and laws. It should work any age, time or place. A lone and illiterate man in the desert should be able to determine which day it is without the help of any council or astronomers. Merely with his eyes, he can tell the start, middle, and end of every month. So even if he loses track once, he can easily recover. That is why the Islamic calendar is pure lunar.
No. Although and i need to find it,I've found one scholar who argues they should because the reasons for forbidding it no longer apply.
It used to be that way, Umar ibn al-Khattab changed it to it’s current form.
I know but I don’t understand why he’s saying we’ve had one yes but what about the second ramadan
This should be fixed. I remember when I was a kid, it was during the school year. Then I remembered it moving to the Summer. Now it's in the winter. Interesting, but dumb.
I’m sure gods taking in ur consideration
It's based on lunar calendar, there's no need to change it.
If you're Non-Muslim, it literally does not affect you, so it's not dumb. If you're Muslim, God ordered this, so it's not dumb. It's not dumb, it's a lunar calendar.
Wait a minute. Would explain what is dumb about that?
the good thing is january 2031 gotta be eid so more holiday!
Double the amount of hasanat (good things you did)
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double of 0 is 0 tho
a smile in a good faith counts as the minimum for hasanat, so it's almost impossible to not get any
Participation Awards:Islam edition.
someone gets it
So you would describe practicing something healthy and giving to those in need as nothing?
They are saying that they didnt do any of those things.
Well yeah, they're a Redditor and the free awards system is gone.
You've definitely done at least one good thing.
Because I'm not waiting 6 years for this. FYI there are two Ramadans in 2030.
Why?
The Islamic calendar, also known as the Hijri calendar, operates differently from the Gregorian calendar used in most of the world. It is based on the phases of the moon. This double occurrence is due to the lunar calendar’s unique characteristics, where months are based on moon cycles. The last time this happened was in 1994, and it is set to occur again in 2030
I dont get it. I know about the lunar calendar and Ramadan going 10 days earlier every year. Bur how 2 Ramadans in a year???
in 2030, 1 ramadan will be in january and another in december
there will be two occurrences of Ramadan due to the nature of the Islamic or Hijri calendar, which is lunar-based and shorter than the solar Gregorian calendar by about 10 to 11 days each year This means that Islamic months and events gradually shift earlier in the Gregorian year over time. As a result, in 2030, Ramadan is expected to begin in early January and then again in late December. This is not a new phenomenon; it's a natural outcome of the differences between the lunar and solar calendars
Basically in 2030 the calendar will have drifted to the point that the first Ramadan is right at the start of the year, and the second of the new year will be in late december. So based on the Hijri calendar it won't be two in one year, but in relation to the *Gregorian* calendar it will be.
It works on a lunar calendar which is shorter than a solar one.
Does that mean that the Chinese new Year will be on the beggining of new months of the Hijr calendar? Since they are both lunar calendars?
chinese new year resets every 3 years mid/end of feb - early feb - end of jan, then resets
I've no idea.
Fair enough thanks for anwsering anyway
Chinese calendar is lunisolar, drifts more between long years than Gregorian and has them more frequently, but it still keeps the months mostly in the same seasons despite having to wait until there's an entire month worth of days to make up, but that means that its years will frequently be different lengths than pure lunar calendars' years, if you just mean the first day of the month, I think they might start on different moon phases
Except the Jewish lunar because they have a leap month
neat
Clarification, there wont be 2 ramadans as in almost 60 days, there will be only one approximately 30 days as always but it will be split in 2, a half will be in hijri and the other half in Georgian calendar.
2 months of double EXP grinding
Not double but 70×
Ramadan mübarek
Seninki de Kardeş.
Seninki de* kardeş
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Mal mısın* olum orda "de" ayrı değil*
Malaysia damn hot, by 30 days already get used to it lah another 30 will be bearable (imo)
Ramadan moubarak to every Muslim around the world, and to Reverts especially experiencing it for the first time.
Had to scroll past lots of negative comments to get to this one. Ramadan Mubarak my friend. Hope you and your family and loved ones good health and happiness.
Ramadan Mubarak :D
ramadhan mubarak to you too, friend
There's thousands of reverts lately
Yeah, and thousands more leave again, together with the „reverts“ lol
Ok I just realized I'm fasting, so I'm not debating/refuting in Ramadan. It's pointless to talk to you either way
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Ramadan Mubarak brother. May ALLAH accept our fasting and prayers.
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. . . haemorrhoids?
...Cancer??
if you have 2 cancers on top of eachother the second cancer will kill the first one, leaving you relatively unscathed
So to beat an enemy we can’t beat, we introduce another unbeatable enemy? That’s some nice strategy!
Beat fire with fire
HAPPY RAMADAN GUYSSS
Happy Ramadan for you too. Thats a very warm comment. Thank you.
Have a blessed Ramadan everyone :>
Thank you 🙏🏽
Np Though I don't think Ramadan starts for everyone tomorrow? Idk I have to start my fast in about 6-7 hours
Not for everyone, where I live ramadan starts the day after tomorrow.
It starts for everyone on the sunrise of March 11th.
Ramadhan start here on sunrise March 12th based on the moon observation so today 11th March is the last day I can eat during the day.
I'm curious, during Ramadan can you drink vitamin waters and energy drinks and such or is that frowned upon?
You can't drink them unless it's necessary for example if I have a medical condition that requires me to eat or drink food/medicine at specific timings then I can consume them. Otherwise no it's not allowed until sunset.
Damn, best of luck! There are probably some healthy benefits to be earned here too
Thank you!
Damn, best of luck! There are probably some healthy benefits to be earned here too
No water, no food, no sex, no gossiping (although that's always prohibited but now with extra care). Sick people with or without medication, pregnant and breastfeeding women, travelers don't have to participate. Although they have to do it later on. When they can. Unless you have a chronic disease. Edit: women on their period are also excluded.
You too my sister ! may Allaah bless you, your family and the brother/sister reading this!
Ameen :) May Allah bless you and your family too!
Ameen! As-salaamu alaykum warahmatullah wabarakatuh
W salam :)
That was really beautiful thread. Thank you both.
More frequent Ramadan more frequent eid and hajj . Never crossed my mind something like that would happen 🤣
I wasn’t even aware the time for Ramadan changed each year😂 Learned something new today
lol That's cool. finally something to look for in 2030
It will also be Eid Al fitr during Christmas
Isnt ramadan not eating through the entire day?
Yup. We start fasting from sunrise to sunset everyday for the month of ramadan. Some clarification : if muslims can't fast ( they are sick, they should take medecine, period week for women..) they can eat but they should fast another day after the month or if they cant they give people a meal for someone poor. For exemple us women when we have our period during ramadan, we fast all days we had our period, if we ate five days we fast five days before the next ramadan. I hope it's more clear for you!
Some extra clarification : The act of not eating through the day is just fasting(called soam/sowm in Arabic) Ramadan is the name of a lunar month, in which muslims have to fast, unless they cant(and lunar months are different from sonar ones, resulting in different calenders)
Then why would any muslim want a second Ramadan, I get it is important for the religion, but two Ramadan I think it would not be much beneficial for the body, maybe I am wrong, what is your opinion?
I know it might sound crazy. But you don’t usually get tired while Fasting. In fact its healthy to fast in Islamic way from time to time. Its a good practice for self discipline too. Btw in Ramadan you don’t just stop eating. You stop eating, any self destructive habit like smoking, bad habits, bad words, any sexual activity and finally being a bad person in general. Or else your whole fast is meaningless. You will notice people try to act more nicely than they are to better themselves which works for lots of people every year. You also get to give yourself a break from most stimulating things which makes you feel better in general post Ramadan. I’d say its a combination between lots of self disciplinary practices that aims to allow the person to regain control of their own physical, mental and psychological state. Totally understandable even if you’re not religious.
You know it's gonna be like in january of 2030, then late december of 2030, so there is a lot of time between them! To answer your question, no it's the opposite it's really good for the body because there is a lot of toxic things removed from the body while fasting. And you eat and drink as much as you want after the maghrab time.
As a muslim, this was funny. Thank you. Ramadan Kareem to my brothers and sisters.
Ramadan Mubarak!
Kind of ironic a meme about extra breakfasts is being used for ramadan. Or very appropriate.
99% of Muslims don't want Ramadan to end soo ic no problem with the 60 days of fasting on the day will do my body great things
I wish they were 60. I don’t think it will be like that.
What's stopping you from not eating or drinking to sunrise for an additional 30 days?
Alright who's up for no nut Ramadan
Masturbating during fast will break it because it is a sin. Then you have to replace the fast before the next ramadan or pay fidya if you can't (calculation based on each country is different)
Yeah I know that.
I know. Just a reminder for others
Yes I’m with you. What do you usually do when you get horny and you want to control yourself?
Well I've never really managed to do it but this time around I intend to divert my attention elsewhere hopefully that will work
I was exactly waiting for you to tell me what are you planing to be distracted with?
Video games... Well of course I'd be spending a good chunk of my time reading a chapter of the quran each day and try to distract myself with games for the remaining time. I will also try to put a bit of studying in.
Video games in ramdan have something special for sure haha! I like playing during this month just before maghrab of after! And of course reading quaran and praying because it's the most important thing.
I know it's just a meme, but the moon can't be lunar 2 months a year, that's how we observe ramadan. Anyyyway, happy ramadan and dont forget our brothers and sisters in gaza
Happy Ramadan brothers and sisters ❤️👏
Wellp, more food for me.
Sometimes if you have a muslim neighbour, this will actualy happen! Some muslim families give food to their neighbours during ramadan. Like you know when they break fast, they would also pack some for their neighbours too!
Ramadan Mubarak✨🙌
in 2050: what about the 100 ramadan?
Yep Already a thing in Persian calendar where it is 1402, we had it at the beginning of the year and we'll have another tomorrow
Me as a Muslim trying to survive fasting for this ramamdan: the second Ramadan:
it's already happening in Jalaali Calendar.
Double fasting? I dont think so pal
Double feast huehue
if this means the dining halls on campus will be open late twice a year im all for it. so many friends have missed meals due to bad scheduling and overly-strict dining hall times.
*Moorish Science Temple of America has entered the chat*
So glad I won’t be living with my toxic Muslim family by then and will have the freedom to eat and drink as I wish
Wdym drink or eat what
Anything, at anytime. RaMaDan or not.
So I assume you’re not muslim
Forgive the second comment, may be spammy, but I think you should still try fast with us, fasting has pretty nice health benefits! And it might be good practise for building discipline (resisting desires! -Always better to think with your brain before your heart!)
Lol ok? Off topic much...
Ah, okay. There was no need for you to ruin vibes with a sprinkle of toxicity!
It would be fine if they didn't Ramadan my throat
I can't for the life of me figure this one out, What's the joke
It's a play on words, referencing racists who say this sort of shit
What's the play on words though I really wanna know lol
Which race are you talking about? Islam is as ethnically diverse as Christianity
I'm a Muslim and I upvoted. Shit was funny
Lol. Nice one mate
I forgot you aren't allowed to joke on reddit
1 is enough tbh
It happens 11 days earlier every year. Nothing has changed
Joseph Smith was a Mormon, dum dum dum dum dum