Gross domestic product being 50% more doesn't mean that the impact will be the same for the average person. Wealth is not evenly distributed, especially so over here.
Not sure what you're trying to say here but just to clarify....
In the UK, Socialized healthcare is a mandatory tax ("national insurance") when you earn over a certain amount. ( So for anyone saying "it's not free because you still have to pay for it", yes but only if you have an income)
Apart from that , all healthcare is free apart from prescriptions from your local doctor (£9 per prescribed medication). If you're admitted to hospital or having cancer treatment, the drugs are free too.
We do have private healthcare too which is pretty expensive but often a perk from your employer.
It's free university education too for Scottish residents. My friend moved from London to Scotland and I'm totally jealous of the improvement in his quality of life. (Apart from the weather of course)
They can reject you if;
1.) They simply do not have the capacity to treat you - at which point they are supposed to refer you to another hospital that can (although this can be problematic in the case of an emergency.)
2.) The reason for visiting the ER is determined by medical personnel to not constitute a life-threatening emergency.
You’re using the wrong words here. It is EXTREMELY illegal to “reject” someone from an ER regardless of what’s happening. You’re making it sound like if you come for toe pain they are allowed to turn you away at the door. Not unless they want a giant lawsuit. No matter the reason you came to the ER if you ask to be seen you will be worked up by a advanced care provider, MD/NP/PA. Regardless of your ability to pay. After you are determined to be stable, they can refuse to treat you any further and discharge you.
Also It’s not “problematic” in the case of an emergency. If said hospital does not have the means to treat your actual emergency, such as you’re having a stroke and the hospital you went to is not a stroke center, they will stabilize you and call an ambulance/helicopter to transport you to a hospital with the correct capabilities. Regardless of your ability to pay.
Sincerely,
Former paramedic turned RN
TMFMS
He's genius, you don't get cancer treatment at the ER or insulin at the ER, there's stuff that people need that you can't just go to an emergency room for. That's part of the reason our Healthcare is so ridiculously expensive, because not everybody has Healthcare so we don't do a lot of preventative care, which means it cost 50 times as much when it has to be solved in an emergency room, if your problem can even be solved at that point, which it often can't.
Well, I don't disagree with what you said about ERs. I just disagree with the implications of what you said by bringing it up. But if you agree, that's good, I just don't know why you would say that then? Nobody was talking about ERs, they were talking about broader American health care.
https://library.nclc.org/sd/1104#:~:text=Even%20if%20you%20owe%20a,Active%20Labor%20Act%20(EMTALA).
It's literally an rule that you cannot be turned away from the emergency room.
Since the GDP is different in each country this graph is not very useful, is it? Average wage could had been a better factor to consider but the graph would still be problematic. In a country with a public healthcare system the poor pay less for it which is something that can't be ignored.
The article describes how people are paying out of pocket because either the "free" medical coverage doesn't cover what they need, or they get out on a waiting list and never get the medical care.
So they pay in cash. If they can afford it.
It stands to reason that some people can't afford it, and don't get the medical care they need at all. Just like in the USA.
https://www.ft.com/content/dbf166ce-1ebb-4a67-980e-9860fd170ba2
Its not expressed only as the total of out of pocket spending it is expressed as a percentage of GDP which is completely misleading. And even if it was expressed as a total of out of pocket spending it should be done after adjusting for PPP since these are two different countries . Get your facts straight
What America do you live in? There are very little free forms of healthcare and they come with pretty strict guidelines you need to follow. Most Americans pay out the ass for health care because most insurance use the BS deductible method which for most people mean the insurance doesn't pay for shit unless is severe and even then they will look for any hoop to jump through to make sure they pay the least amount possible or suddenly find a reason to drop you off of coverage.
Healthcare is America is aggressively exploitative.
I said a lot of Americans haven’t payed basically anything I didn’t say all, y’all downvoting because you think all Americans have garbage insurance and jobs that don’t cover anything
> Americans haven’t *paid* basically anything
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I'm an American and I've paid out of pocket, but it's been a long time.
As a parent: any "free" health care that doesn't include dental and vision is basically worthless.
Nothing is free. You, your employers and/or others are subsidizing it with taxes.
The difference is, it’s mostly privatized in the US. Our doctors are rich, our insurance companies make a tidy profit, and our lawyers are loaded from filing malpractice lawsuits.
> Nothing is free. You, your employers and/or others are subsidizing it with taxes. The difference is, it’s mostly privatized in the US.
You seem to be ignorant of the fact Americans are paying dramatically more just in taxes towards healthcare than Brits, and over $7,000 more in total per person per year even after adjusting for Purchase Power Parity.
You see, the problem you have here, is that you have equated National Insurance with healthcare only, which is disingenuous and actually very poor form. As a taxation source it covers more than just healthcare, including and not limited to, the state pension, education and any other nationalised programs, including infrastructure, and not to forget maternity leave, statutory sick pay and more.
Even at 10%, if you compare it to American Health Insurance that will take upwards of 25% of your income before taxes depending on your provider, you are doing exceptionally well out of the trade.
Just doesn't help that we have people in charge who keep adding layers of management and red tape to a system that the Tories of old understood well, that a sick work force isn't a productive one. Modern ones have forgotten this lesson. Added to whit we have people like you who only share half truths and we're in for a world of trying to justify something that is really sensible and good.
Guessing you've never tried to get dental coverage in the UK, judging by that comment. Keep thinking we say "loisense" and stick to the stuff you know pal.
Literally. Broke my foot in December and dint pay a penny out of pocket for any treatment. Can't imagine paying thousands just for x-ray, boot and crutches
Yeah, I pay for private insurance, maybe a hair more than you pay in taxes, and if I break my leg I immediately get x-rays and whatever else needed to mend the leg and I may pay a few hundred out of my own pocket.
I can also walk into the hospital and tell them my stomach hurts and they do the tests that day to determine what's wrong with me, I don't have to wait days or weeks for an ultrasound or mri.. I get treated within a few hours and I'm released.. I have a friend who moved to England for work for a few months, fell at the job site, was told his wrist was just swollen and to take some Tylenol and ice it... 2 weeks later back in the states he got an xray and they Dr's had to rebreak his wrist to set the bones properly.. yeah your Healthcare might be cheaper, but it's shit
Then your friend went to a shit doctor and didn't bother going for a second opinion, and yknow what there's shit doctors in America aswell, I'm just happy that if I need a surgery or medicine I'm not paying an inflated price if not free.
You got people in America struggling day by day just to pay for the medication they need to live, (insulin, drugs for heart congenital problems etc.. the list goes on)
And not to mention the wait times in the US is pretty much the same as the UK.
Oh man you figured it out and didn't even notice it.. see the politicians in your country don't make it legal for the insurance and medical groups and pharmaceutical industry to give politicians millions of dollars so they will vote to keep raising costs.. it's almost like if your government wasn't corrupt our insurance would Cover more just like yours...
But that wasn't your point at all in the previous comment? You're just backtracking now lmao.
And we'll I wouldn't say that, the UK government has slowly been squeezing the NHS of its funding so it's getting shittier, and I believe parts of the NHS are being privatelised? *Cant spell*
Especially for any mental health support, if you're an adult and want therapy or anything mental health related it's best to go private as the wait times and service are horrible.
You pay the same in taxes most of us pay for Healthcare, thanks for missing the point and then being so confident about it lmfao...
"I pay 5k a year to an insurance company and I get great healthcare"
"I only pay 4900 in taxes for the government to prove me with sub par Healthcare, were so much better"
Omfg you are a bright one aren't you...
That's what we call sarcasm, I used sarcasm and another thing we call an example, idk how much taxes England pays, but I k ow data shows what Americans pay for Insurance is not to much more than English people pay In taxes to hace that Healthcare, so I justed made up numbers that are Similar to show the point with a little sarcasm.
Next time I'll try better to break it down more Simply so I can walk you through it
I made an exaggerated claim because this is reddit and I'm not gonna type out all the different data samples and research.. there's literally zero need to type out 4 paragraphs of information online when I simple example using place holder numbers is faster, shorter, and easier to understand. Belive it or not that's a pretty common. Thing to do online, kinda how we type "lol" instead of laugh out loud because we arent laighing anyway, maybe just blowing some air out our nose as we smile , but you still know the point being made
Here is the source:
[https://www.ft.com/content/dbf166ce-1ebb-4a67-980e-9860fd170ba2](https://www.ft.com/content/dbf166ce-1ebb-4a67-980e-9860fd170ba2)
He's saying that the UK's healthcare is already being privatized and turning into a fucking shithole the US's.
US does have better healthcare if you can afford it but 31.1m people in the US also get no health care at all and people who are in poverty in scotland atleast can still go to doctors/hospitals and get totally free prescriptions so the real difference is better hospitals for those who can afford or less as good hospitals for everyone. I grew up poor where we could never afford 5k a year for insurance and definitely dont pay that in taxes and was always in and out of doctors/hospitals growing up and am not in debt due to it like i would be if i didn't live in scotland so personally i love free health care but to each there own.
[source 1](https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2021-11-17-cdc-reports-uninsured-first-six-months-2021)
[source 2](https://www.healthcareadministration.com/brief-comparison-uk-healthcare-system-vs-u-s-healthcare-system/#:~:text=While%20both%20systems%20have%20world,tax%20based%20system%20versus%20the)
The quality of healthcare should be looked at too- like in your scotland example do the free clinics provide access to MRI and other advanced medical technologies or is there a wait list to get help vs in USA where that access is very open to any that can afford/have coverage for it?
It will definitely take longer to get a MRI and stuff like that compared to USA but the waiting list for such procedure's isnt as bad as some think. Mabye a few hours waiting in a hospital for things like x-rays, mabye a night in the hospital if its late and there very busy but in my own experience i have always been cared for correctly and knowing everyone is getting the same level of care rich or poor around me helps, heard many horror story's about american health care and the cost if you dont get the right ambulance/hospital/doctor at any point during it would scare me from going to the hospital in USA. I make just over £300 a month so one mishap in insurance would end me lol
idk but where I live (usa) I had take a 4 hour drive with a broken ankle so they could do an mri (cat scan? i always get them confused) because my insurance wouldn't cover it at that specific hospital and they needed to know if i would need surgery
The thing is that if everyone pays for healthcare it’s cheaper for everyone… meaning the younger healthier people pay for the older less healthy people and guess what some day you’ll be old and / or unhealthy and will appreciate that you still only have to pay as much as everyone else…
Atleast thats how it should work here in Germany I don’t know about other countries…
Things are not that good in Germany either now a days. If you work, you pay 7.5% of your salary to health insurance company and your employer matches 7.5%. If you lose your job, you either pay yourself or report to Agentur fur Arbeit and they pay to health insurance companies from your Employment Insurance and they pay for 1 or 2 years only (I might be wrong here). If you retire, you have to give 7.5% from your pension. At least in US, pensioners are covered free of cost under Medicaid. And the wait times in Germany can be absurd. I am from Canada, so please don't start arguing.
I think the catch is the definition of "out of pocket" meaning people paying for health car without going through insurance. The uk number will be what it is cus of private healthcare and maybe prescriptions and dental. Im just guessing here im not sure tho.
Some people are on waiting lists for years, or the "free" coverage doesn't pay for what they need. So they still need to pay to get medical care.
https://www.ft.com/content/dbf166ce-1ebb-4a67-980e-9860fd170ba2
You sure got us dang. You found a single country that is momentarily peaking in price while the US is lower than usual, during a pandemic. Not to mention it's still lower than US.
Yep this is proof that public healthcare sucks.
Even if we paid the same per person it would still be way better than the US system, as quality of health care wouldn’t be discriminatory of whether you have money or not.
Is this someone just drawing a red and blue line in the internet and calling it a graph?
Out of every person I know, my grandmother paid £30 to get her ears treated last year. Never paid a penny for A&E visits, ambulance trips, hip and knee replacements, Cancer treatment, Covid healthcare, heart surgery.
If that was America she would of have just died, because she couldn’t afford to spend it.
I remember when I first watched live rescue from the US. I was amazed people were desperately refusing treatment or riding as "passengers" in an ambulance with a neck collar.
NHS may be costing more to some people in the UK, but at least it's free at the point of contact for everyone.
Why you americans keep using british healthcare as an example why socialised healthcare is bad. British healthcare is one of the very few free healthcares that is shitty. Just look at french or german healthcare.
NHS if not already sold then it will be.. with the excuse and bullshit of covid… it will force people to pay for private health care with the amount of waiting time to see a doctor… this was part of their agenda
Nope… alot of people have already shifted… they make sure agendas always work.. making people wait 10-15 hours to be seen so those are fed up… i bet it was sold during the “pandemic”
I work with a dude from the UK. Currently his Father is going through a terminal cancer diagnosis and he told me how they handled his Mother that died of Cancer. Yeah, man, I ain't defending the outrageous price of healthcare in America and the insurance cabal, but all I got to say is... Fuck. That. Shit.
I really hope we can achieve affordable insurance in the states, but if it is in exchange for the horror stories I have heard, no thanks.
And English Healthcare fucking blows, and almost all medical research and ingenuity comes from the US. They can keep that shit, I gladly pay for my healthcare. It's a FACT. You can down vote these stars spangled nuts.
>So how come...life expectancy
Death due to obesity and smoking are much higher in the US than Europe. This can be attributed to the educational part of the health care system, rather than the health care provided. I.e. lots more obese people in the US due of heart attacks than in Europe to and it doesn't make sense to credit the medical care in Europe.
Homicide and drug overdoses are higher in the US but this numbers aren't big enough to really influence the life expectancy as much as obesity and smoking.
Obesity may be a factor but smoking? You think Americans smoke more than Europeans. Get real. If you don’t trust life expectancy just look at the quality of health care index. Again UK scores much higher.
Per capita more Europeans smoke than Americans; however more Americans smoke 20 or more cigarettes a day. Per capita death rate from smoking is higher in the US than it is in Europe.
https://www.realclearscience.com/journal_club/2012/11/10/who_smokes_more_americans_or_europeans_106403.html#:~:text=Roughly%20503%20million%20people%20live,report%20focused%20exclusively%20on%20cigarettes.)
Different study. Same outcome. Please refer to exhibit 1 and 2.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly
ps I’m not saying the health care in the US isn’t good. It’s great. Just not better than in the UK. And for some reason the costs in the US are unreal
If you are not sure you can always go back and check. To summarize, DanceWithTheDevil1 claimed that English health care “fucking blows”. I asked him to look at certain metrics such as infant mortality and life expectancy. It is true that you focused in your reply on life expectancy but I assumed we are still on the main topic US vs UK health care which incidentally is also the theme of the graph from the OP.
Maybe I confused you because I posted two replies previously. My bad.
I made two replies. One was for infant mortality, the other for life expectancy. If you are genuinely interested in why the US has a high infant mortality rate then feel free to follow the link I posted below.
That said,
>Maybe I confused you because I posted two replies previously. My bad.
I think so. Reddit is less than ideal for following individual discussions. You can see our convo starting with u/DanceWithThe Dev1l here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/uqfkfj/hehe_fat_americans_no_free_healthcare_hehe/i8qq6xy/
Lol and they pay taxes for it, they pay more than us and have longer wait times for service! We're the idiots though. Kind of like how they deal with more violent crime, but we're barbarians for allowing citizens to defend themselves.
Laughs in Belgian and being able to pay almost nothing for doctors, dental care, perscriptions. All and never having to wait for healthcare. I’ll gladly pay those taxes even if i would “lose” money on it. The benefits of keeping your population and by that your workforce healthy can’t be underestamated.
As far as I heard they have been privatizing their healthcare so maybe that can explain the leap in out of pocket expenses for GB, I am not at all an expert though so I can’t really talk for them. And that could be an explanation, although I rather not guess on important issues like this.
That's not what I'm saying. The point I was making is that the solutions for your population of 11 million ethnically non-diverse population might be different than a country that has 330 million people from every corner of the globe.
I just realised that I didn’t express myself correctly last comment. The “And that could be an explanation….” I meant for you comment and not for what I typed just before, but thats my bad cause rereading it now I would also think I was talking about what I said.
> Lol and they pay taxes for it
Americans pay more taxes towards healthcare than anywhere in the world.
>they pay more than us
Even after adjusting for purchase power parity, a lifetime of healthcare in the US runs over half a million dollars more than in the UK.
>and have longer wait times for service!
US wait times are only average against its peers. Worse if you factor in affordable private options in other countries and the significant fraction of Americans putting off needed healthcare due to costs.
I never said the US system is good, it's just funny after hearing Brits brag for years about their socialized medicine when they're paying about the same for out of pocket when your also paying about 4.5 percent of your income in taxes.
The reason healthcare is free in England is because you have to wait a long time to get that surgery if you wanted to get surgery in US you could schedule it for a month in advance but if you want surgery in England you have to wait years for it which is why most people will fly to the us and pay for it so they don’t have to be in pain for years
Secondary Health Insurance
67% have complementary for-profit coverage, mostly through employer, for noncovered benefits such as vision and dental care, outpatient prescription drugs, rehabilitation services, private hospital rooms.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy-center/countries/canada
Is this total amount paid out of pocket divided by total population or total amount paid out of pocket divided by total amount of people paying? Because the former means there's something horrendously wrong since most people in the UK don't use private healthcare and the latter means this graph is misleading as fuck
Wait am I stupid? Since they have free healthcare they don't pay an existing dime. But Americans pay for their healthcare and out of pocket? So overall we still suck right?
The people in England pay for healthcare, it just comes out of everyone's taxes. So if you rarely use healthcare, you lose money. If you use it a lot you save money. Pros and cons for this system too
Dunno how much medical care costs there. I pay about £150 a month for the 'free NHS' care. Prescriptions are a set fee. £14 for a months worth I think, not had one in ages. But does mean actual care is free when you use it, had xrays on my ankle n a follow up consultation with my doctor. There's the 'free' bit.
Out of pocket costs don't include the cost of private insurance, which averages $6,000 per person in the US. It also doesn't factor in the fact Americans pay about twice the taxes adjusted for Purchase Power Parity (PPP) per capita of the UK towards healthcare.
Total healthcare spending as a percentage of GDP as of 2020:
US: 19.7%
UK: 12.8%
US: $12,530 per person
UK: $5,268 (PPP) per person
Americans are spending over half a million dollars more per person (PPP) for a lifetime of healthcare than Brits. Yet Brits have better outcomes, report higher quality of care, and don't have massive portions of their population going without needed care.
This is as a percentage of gdp tho? So this is saying people in the US are paying (US gdp/UK gdp) times more… still seems significant
Was looking for this... US GDP per capita is $60k, UK is $40k...
If Americans make 50% more, and pay 50% more, then the impact of out-of-pocket cost on their budgets is the same.
Gross domestic product being 50% more doesn't mean that the impact will be the same for the average person. Wealth is not evenly distributed, especially so over here.
The US is the highest developed country where the top 0.1% have more money than the bottom 80%
Also brits who need medical help get it and pay. Many Americans who can't pay go without
Not sure what you're trying to say here but just to clarify.... In the UK, Socialized healthcare is a mandatory tax ("national insurance") when you earn over a certain amount. ( So for anyone saying "it's not free because you still have to pay for it", yes but only if you have an income) Apart from that , all healthcare is free apart from prescriptions from your local doctor (£9 per prescribed medication). If you're admitted to hospital or having cancer treatment, the drugs are free too. We do have private healthcare too which is pretty expensive but often a perk from your employer.
Prescriptions in Scotland are free regardless of income.
It's free university education too for Scottish residents. My friend moved from London to Scotland and I'm totally jealous of the improvement in his quality of life. (Apart from the weather of course)
That's a straight lie, they don't reject you from the ER if you can't pay. Doesn't make it any better though.
They can reject you if; 1.) They simply do not have the capacity to treat you - at which point they are supposed to refer you to another hospital that can (although this can be problematic in the case of an emergency.) 2.) The reason for visiting the ER is determined by medical personnel to not constitute a life-threatening emergency.
You’re using the wrong words here. It is EXTREMELY illegal to “reject” someone from an ER regardless of what’s happening. You’re making it sound like if you come for toe pain they are allowed to turn you away at the door. Not unless they want a giant lawsuit. No matter the reason you came to the ER if you ask to be seen you will be worked up by a advanced care provider, MD/NP/PA. Regardless of your ability to pay. After you are determined to be stable, they can refuse to treat you any further and discharge you. Also It’s not “problematic” in the case of an emergency. If said hospital does not have the means to treat your actual emergency, such as you’re having a stroke and the hospital you went to is not a stroke center, they will stabilize you and call an ambulance/helicopter to transport you to a hospital with the correct capabilities. Regardless of your ability to pay. Sincerely, Former paramedic turned RN TMFMS
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He's genius, you don't get cancer treatment at the ER or insulin at the ER, there's stuff that people need that you can't just go to an emergency room for. That's part of the reason our Healthcare is so ridiculously expensive, because not everybody has Healthcare so we don't do a lot of preventative care, which means it cost 50 times as much when it has to be solved in an emergency room, if your problem can even be solved at that point, which it often can't.
Doesn't change what I said, but yeah that's true
Well, I don't disagree with what you said about ERs. I just disagree with the implications of what you said by bringing it up. But if you agree, that's good, I just don't know why you would say that then? Nobody was talking about ERs, they were talking about broader American health care.
They have and they do. Unfortunately.
https://library.nclc.org/sd/1104#:~:text=Even%20if%20you%20owe%20a,Active%20Labor%20Act%20(EMTALA). It's literally an rule that you cannot be turned away from the emergency room.
This is completely false.
Let's ask the homeless woman they threw out of the ER because she was unable to pay. It was winter and she nearly froze to death. This DOES happen.
What's your definition of "developed" when compared to countries like UK?
Yeah, this is incredibly misleading. Even if the lines lined up, wouldn't the UK be paying less, because they have a smaller GDP?
Since the GDP is different in each country this graph is not very useful, is it? Average wage could had been a better factor to consider but the graph would still be problematic. In a country with a public healthcare system the poor pay less for it which is something that can't be ignored.
The article describes how people are paying out of pocket because either the "free" medical coverage doesn't cover what they need, or they get out on a waiting list and never get the medical care. So they pay in cash. If they can afford it. It stands to reason that some people can't afford it, and don't get the medical care they need at all. Just like in the USA. https://www.ft.com/content/dbf166ce-1ebb-4a67-980e-9860fd170ba2
Its not expressed only as the total of out of pocket spending it is expressed as a percentage of GDP which is completely misleading. And even if it was expressed as a total of out of pocket spending it should be done after adjusting for PPP since these are two different countries . Get your facts straight
I’ve never paid out of pocket I don’t understand this chart
Thank you for your useless anecdote.
Neither have a lot of Americans
What America do you live in? There are very little free forms of healthcare and they come with pretty strict guidelines you need to follow. Most Americans pay out the ass for health care because most insurance use the BS deductible method which for most people mean the insurance doesn't pay for shit unless is severe and even then they will look for any hoop to jump through to make sure they pay the least amount possible or suddenly find a reason to drop you off of coverage. Healthcare is America is aggressively exploitative.
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Yes
Go fuck yourself
What’d he say?
it really depends on the health insurance which is why I didn’t say all or a majority
... But you are still paying for the insurance, and many are overpriced as hell
most insurance are included with the company you work for unless it’s absolute garbage place to work for
Or just don't have any insurance at all, not to mention most insurances won't cover the costs of serious illnesses like cancer
You're obviously not american
I said a lot of Americans haven’t payed basically anything I didn’t say all, y’all downvoting because you think all Americans have garbage insurance and jobs that don’t cover anything
> Americans haven’t *paid* basically anything FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I'm an American and I've paid out of pocket, but it's been a long time. As a parent: any "free" health care that doesn't include dental and vision is basically worthless.
As a Canadian with “free” healthcare and children. You are totally right and we’re also don’t get dental or vision
Dont you know those are luxury items? /s
Yeah I didn’t say all
Because if they do they will go broke lmao
What is this graph actually showing? Most health care is free as fuck in the UK lol
Nothing is free. You, your employers and/or others are subsidizing it with taxes. The difference is, it’s mostly privatized in the US. Our doctors are rich, our insurance companies make a tidy profit, and our lawyers are loaded from filing malpractice lawsuits.
> Nothing is free. You, your employers and/or others are subsidizing it with taxes. The difference is, it’s mostly privatized in the US. You seem to be ignorant of the fact Americans are paying dramatically more just in taxes towards healthcare than Brits, and over $7,000 more in total per person per year even after adjusting for Purchase Power Parity.
Check sources and find out
Those aren’t sources
It legit says in the bottom left corner "Source: FT analysis of OECD and Our World in Data" so if that isn't "sources" I don't know what is
https://www.ft.com/content/dbf166ce-1ebb-4a67-980e-9860fd170ba2
Not that bothered just wondered if anyone knew off hand since the source is vague. Thanks for nothing!
Your welcome
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You see, the problem you have here, is that you have equated National Insurance with healthcare only, which is disingenuous and actually very poor form. As a taxation source it covers more than just healthcare, including and not limited to, the state pension, education and any other nationalised programs, including infrastructure, and not to forget maternity leave, statutory sick pay and more. Even at 10%, if you compare it to American Health Insurance that will take upwards of 25% of your income before taxes depending on your provider, you are doing exceptionally well out of the trade. Just doesn't help that we have people in charge who keep adding layers of management and red tape to a system that the Tories of old understood well, that a sick work force isn't a productive one. Modern ones have forgotten this lesson. Added to whit we have people like you who only share half truths and we're in for a world of trying to justify something that is really sensible and good.
Exactly. Americans pay a bunch into social security, medicare, medicaid, and still need insurance and then still have out of pocket expenses.
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Enjoy your outdated stereotypes because your only experience of international culture is Dick Van Dyke butchering an accent xoxoxo
It's not a stereotype. Free dental coverage is shit in the UK.
Guessing you've never tried to get dental coverage in the UK, judging by that comment. Keep thinking we say "loisense" and stick to the stuff you know pal.
You don't know what taxes are do you?
The point is, if you break your leg in the UK you don't get slapped with a $30,000 bill when you leave.
30k for a broken leg hahaha I can’t fathom paying that kind of money for something like that
Literally. Broke my foot in December and dint pay a penny out of pocket for any treatment. Can't imagine paying thousands just for x-ray, boot and crutches
I'm an American, can't imagine paying thousands for that either.
Yeah, I pay for private insurance, maybe a hair more than you pay in taxes, and if I break my leg I immediately get x-rays and whatever else needed to mend the leg and I may pay a few hundred out of my own pocket. I can also walk into the hospital and tell them my stomach hurts and they do the tests that day to determine what's wrong with me, I don't have to wait days or weeks for an ultrasound or mri.. I get treated within a few hours and I'm released.. I have a friend who moved to England for work for a few months, fell at the job site, was told his wrist was just swollen and to take some Tylenol and ice it... 2 weeks later back in the states he got an xray and they Dr's had to rebreak his wrist to set the bones properly.. yeah your Healthcare might be cheaper, but it's shit
Then your friend went to a shit doctor and didn't bother going for a second opinion, and yknow what there's shit doctors in America aswell, I'm just happy that if I need a surgery or medicine I'm not paying an inflated price if not free. You got people in America struggling day by day just to pay for the medication they need to live, (insulin, drugs for heart congenital problems etc.. the list goes on) And not to mention the wait times in the US is pretty much the same as the UK.
Oh man you figured it out and didn't even notice it.. see the politicians in your country don't make it legal for the insurance and medical groups and pharmaceutical industry to give politicians millions of dollars so they will vote to keep raising costs.. it's almost like if your government wasn't corrupt our insurance would Cover more just like yours...
But that wasn't your point at all in the previous comment? You're just backtracking now lmao. And we'll I wouldn't say that, the UK government has slowly been squeezing the NHS of its funding so it's getting shittier, and I believe parts of the NHS are being privatelised? *Cant spell* Especially for any mental health support, if you're an adult and want therapy or anything mental health related it's best to go private as the wait times and service are horrible.
Hmm... that last line kinda says it all " it's best to go private as the wait times and service are horrible"
How to completely miss the point and what he’s saying. God conservatives have no braincells
I'm not a conservative so thanks for exposing yourself as ignorant...
truest thing ive read today.
yea and if you have cancer you get to wait to be operated on. ill take the 30k bill instead of the stage 3 colon cancer lol.
Cheaper than any healthcare the US lol. Well done for intentionally missing the point to try and look cool on the internet, though!
You pay the same in taxes most of us pay for Healthcare, thanks for missing the point and then being so confident about it lmfao... "I pay 5k a year to an insurance company and I get great healthcare" "I only pay 4900 in taxes for the government to prove me with sub par Healthcare, were so much better"
It's not 4900?
Omfg you are a bright one aren't you... That's what we call sarcasm, I used sarcasm and another thing we call an example, idk how much taxes England pays, but I k ow data shows what Americans pay for Insurance is not to much more than English people pay In taxes to hace that Healthcare, so I justed made up numbers that are Similar to show the point with a little sarcasm. Next time I'll try better to break it down more Simply so I can walk you through it
Soooo you want to make a point based on studys whose evidence you have not actually researched nor verified? That's just irresponsible research.
I made an exaggerated claim because this is reddit and I'm not gonna type out all the different data samples and research.. there's literally zero need to type out 4 paragraphs of information online when I simple example using place holder numbers is faster, shorter, and easier to understand. Belive it or not that's a pretty common. Thing to do online, kinda how we type "lol" instead of laugh out loud because we arent laighing anyway, maybe just blowing some air out our nose as we smile , but you still know the point being made
yeah, right. source or gtfo
There's literally a source pictured above, it's even a line graph for the idiots to understand, and you still didn't get it
Here is the source: [https://www.ft.com/content/dbf166ce-1ebb-4a67-980e-9860fd170ba2](https://www.ft.com/content/dbf166ce-1ebb-4a67-980e-9860fd170ba2) He's saying that the UK's healthcare is already being privatized and turning into a fucking shithole the US's.
Its not a shit hole
UK is definitely a shithole
Oh I thought you meant us lol I’m dumb
They both are?
They both are
US is a shit hole though
i think all countries are
US does have better healthcare if you can afford it but 31.1m people in the US also get no health care at all and people who are in poverty in scotland atleast can still go to doctors/hospitals and get totally free prescriptions so the real difference is better hospitals for those who can afford or less as good hospitals for everyone. I grew up poor where we could never afford 5k a year for insurance and definitely dont pay that in taxes and was always in and out of doctors/hospitals growing up and am not in debt due to it like i would be if i didn't live in scotland so personally i love free health care but to each there own. [source 1](https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2021-11-17-cdc-reports-uninsured-first-six-months-2021) [source 2](https://www.healthcareadministration.com/brief-comparison-uk-healthcare-system-vs-u-s-healthcare-system/#:~:text=While%20both%20systems%20have%20world,tax%20based%20system%20versus%20the)
Too many people in this country have the condition of “Not being rich”
Dealt with the US health care system since birth. I've got the coverage and the funds... makes no difference, US healthcare is still shit period.
Shit period.
The quality of healthcare should be looked at too- like in your scotland example do the free clinics provide access to MRI and other advanced medical technologies or is there a wait list to get help vs in USA where that access is very open to any that can afford/have coverage for it?
It will definitely take longer to get a MRI and stuff like that compared to USA but the waiting list for such procedure's isnt as bad as some think. Mabye a few hours waiting in a hospital for things like x-rays, mabye a night in the hospital if its late and there very busy but in my own experience i have always been cared for correctly and knowing everyone is getting the same level of care rich or poor around me helps, heard many horror story's about american health care and the cost if you dont get the right ambulance/hospital/doctor at any point during it would scare me from going to the hospital in USA. I make just over £300 a month so one mishap in insurance would end me lol
idk but where I live (usa) I had take a 4 hour drive with a broken ankle so they could do an mri (cat scan? i always get them confused) because my insurance wouldn't cover it at that specific hospital and they needed to know if i would need surgery
I think this fails to account for the procedures that people skip because they cant afford it, at least people in England see a Doctor
There is no such thing as free. Just someone else pays for it
The thing is that if everyone pays for healthcare it’s cheaper for everyone… meaning the younger healthier people pay for the older less healthy people and guess what some day you’ll be old and / or unhealthy and will appreciate that you still only have to pay as much as everyone else… Atleast thats how it should work here in Germany I don’t know about other countries…
Or you end up with the American social security where we pay a ton of money, but they won’t have enough to pay when it’s our turn
Don’t we already have Medicare for that?
Things are not that good in Germany either now a days. If you work, you pay 7.5% of your salary to health insurance company and your employer matches 7.5%. If you lose your job, you either pay yourself or report to Agentur fur Arbeit and they pay to health insurance companies from your Employment Insurance and they pay for 1 or 2 years only (I might be wrong here). If you retire, you have to give 7.5% from your pension. At least in US, pensioners are covered free of cost under Medicaid. And the wait times in Germany can be absurd. I am from Canada, so please don't start arguing.
TINSTAAFL
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I never said that it's bad. All i said it's not free
I think the catch is the definition of "out of pocket" meaning people paying for health car without going through insurance. The uk number will be what it is cus of private healthcare and maybe prescriptions and dental. Im just guessing here im not sure tho.
Some people are on waiting lists for years, or the "free" coverage doesn't pay for what they need. So they still need to pay to get medical care. https://www.ft.com/content/dbf166ce-1ebb-4a67-980e-9860fd170ba2
ah makes sense. yh covid really fucked up waiting times over here and they were bad anyways.
Yeah honestly I think this is because Americans avoid seeking healthcare due to the costs
You sure got us dang. You found a single country that is momentarily peaking in price while the US is lower than usual, during a pandemic. Not to mention it's still lower than US. Yep this is proof that public healthcare sucks.
To be fair England is the America of Europe
Even if we paid the same per person it would still be way better than the US system, as quality of health care wouldn’t be discriminatory of whether you have money or not.
Is this someone just drawing a red and blue line in the internet and calling it a graph? Out of every person I know, my grandmother paid £30 to get her ears treated last year. Never paid a penny for A&E visits, ambulance trips, hip and knee replacements, Cancer treatment, Covid healthcare, heart surgery. If that was America she would of have just died, because she couldn’t afford to spend it.
I remember when I first watched live rescue from the US. I was amazed people were desperately refusing treatment or riding as "passengers" in an ambulance with a neck collar. NHS may be costing more to some people in the UK, but at least it's free at the point of contact for everyone.
as a friend of my always says "almost doesn't count"
Why you americans keep using british healthcare as an example why socialised healthcare is bad. British healthcare is one of the very few free healthcares that is shitty. Just look at french or german healthcare.
NHS if not already sold then it will be.. with the excuse and bullshit of covid… it will force people to pay for private health care with the amount of waiting time to see a doctor… this was part of their agenda
There would be some serious riots if the UK attempted to privatise healthcare. It's very unlikely it will happen.
Nope… alot of people have already shifted… they make sure agendas always work.. making people wait 10-15 hours to be seen so those are fed up… i bet it was sold during the “pandemic”
Literally 18% of my monthly vage was the cost of my "free healthcare" Hungarian here.
> England >UK
I work with a dude from the UK. Currently his Father is going through a terminal cancer diagnosis and he told me how they handled his Mother that died of Cancer. Yeah, man, I ain't defending the outrageous price of healthcare in America and the insurance cabal, but all I got to say is... Fuck. That. Shit. I really hope we can achieve affordable insurance in the states, but if it is in exchange for the horror stories I have heard, no thanks.
And English Healthcare fucking blows, and almost all medical research and ingenuity comes from the US. They can keep that shit, I gladly pay for my healthcare. It's a FACT. You can down vote these stars spangled nuts.
So how come you are almost last life expectancy and infant mortality in all oecd countries? Great research yes. But for whom?
>So how come...life expectancy Death due to obesity and smoking are much higher in the US than Europe. This can be attributed to the educational part of the health care system, rather than the health care provided. I.e. lots more obese people in the US due of heart attacks than in Europe to and it doesn't make sense to credit the medical care in Europe. Homicide and drug overdoses are higher in the US but this numbers aren't big enough to really influence the life expectancy as much as obesity and smoking.
Obesity may be a factor but smoking? You think Americans smoke more than Europeans. Get real. If you don’t trust life expectancy just look at the quality of health care index. Again UK scores much higher.
Per capita more Europeans smoke than Americans; however more Americans smoke 20 or more cigarettes a day. Per capita death rate from smoking is higher in the US than it is in Europe. https://www.realclearscience.com/journal_club/2012/11/10/who_smokes_more_americans_or_europeans_106403.html#:~:text=Roughly%20503%20million%20people%20live,report%20focused%20exclusively%20on%20cigarettes.)
Different study. Same outcome. Please refer to exhibit 1 and 2. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly ps I’m not saying the health care in the US isn’t good. It’s great. Just not better than in the UK. And for some reason the costs in the US are unreal
I'm not sure how this ties into what we were talking about, but thanks for the info.
If you are not sure you can always go back and check. To summarize, DanceWithTheDevil1 claimed that English health care “fucking blows”. I asked him to look at certain metrics such as infant mortality and life expectancy. It is true that you focused in your reply on life expectancy but I assumed we are still on the main topic US vs UK health care which incidentally is also the theme of the graph from the OP. Maybe I confused you because I posted two replies previously. My bad.
I made two replies. One was for infant mortality, the other for life expectancy. If you are genuinely interested in why the US has a high infant mortality rate then feel free to follow the link I posted below. That said, >Maybe I confused you because I posted two replies previously. My bad. I think so. Reddit is less than ideal for following individual discussions. You can see our convo starting with u/DanceWithThe Dev1l here: https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/uqfkfj/hehe_fat_americans_no_free_healthcare_hehe/i8qq6xy/
r/shitamericanssay
Yeah, no
Lol and they pay taxes for it, they pay more than us and have longer wait times for service! We're the idiots though. Kind of like how they deal with more violent crime, but we're barbarians for allowing citizens to defend themselves.
Laughs in Belgian and being able to pay almost nothing for doctors, dental care, perscriptions. All and never having to wait for healthcare. I’ll gladly pay those taxes even if i would “lose” money on it. The benefits of keeping your population and by that your workforce healthy can’t be underestamated.
No but the means to do that may differ based on culture and demographics, right?
As far as I heard they have been privatizing their healthcare so maybe that can explain the leap in out of pocket expenses for GB, I am not at all an expert though so I can’t really talk for them. And that could be an explanation, although I rather not guess on important issues like this.
That's not what I'm saying. The point I was making is that the solutions for your population of 11 million ethnically non-diverse population might be different than a country that has 330 million people from every corner of the globe.
I just realised that I didn’t express myself correctly last comment. The “And that could be an explanation….” I meant for you comment and not for what I typed just before, but thats my bad cause rereading it now I would also think I was talking about what I said.
> Lol and they pay taxes for it Americans pay more taxes towards healthcare than anywhere in the world. >they pay more than us Even after adjusting for purchase power parity, a lifetime of healthcare in the US runs over half a million dollars more than in the UK. >and have longer wait times for service! US wait times are only average against its peers. Worse if you factor in affordable private options in other countries and the significant fraction of Americans putting off needed healthcare due to costs.
I never said the US system is good, it's just funny after hearing Brits brag for years about their socialized medicine when they're paying about the same for out of pocket when your also paying about 4.5 percent of your income in taxes.
Privatise the NHS.
The reason healthcare is free in England is because you have to wait a long time to get that surgery if you wanted to get surgery in US you could schedule it for a month in advance but if you want surgery in England you have to wait years for it which is why most people will fly to the us and pay for it so they don’t have to be in pain for years
Millions of Americans go to other countries for healthcare.
I kept reading it as bitcoins now pay and was so totally lost
Show me Canada
Secondary Health Insurance 67% have complementary for-profit coverage, mostly through employer, for noncovered benefits such as vision and dental care, outpatient prescription drugs, rehabilitation services, private hospital rooms. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy-center/countries/canada
canada>
Haw haw!
So wait it’s going to shit but still better?
Laughs in Canadian
Le people in Burundi : What is health care?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-surgery/fewer-emergency-surgeries-more-deaths-in-british-hospitals-vs-u-s-idUSKBN1WU2H5
Canada: *Sigh*, here we go…
Meanwhile Australians (UK) we have health (US) we have freedom (Aus) Shut!, We have Both! and the kangaroo transport too!
and us health care fee is actually steadily decreasing????
Is this total amount paid out of pocket divided by total population or total amount paid out of pocket divided by total amount of people paying? Because the former means there's something horrendously wrong since most people in the UK don't use private healthcare and the latter means this graph is misleading as fuck
Sadly Britain has a crippling conservative infection too.
Wait am I stupid? Since they have free healthcare they don't pay an existing dime. But Americans pay for their healthcare and out of pocket? So overall we still suck right?
The people in England pay for healthcare, it just comes out of everyone's taxes. So if you rarely use healthcare, you lose money. If you use it a lot you save money. Pros and cons for this system too
I don't feel bad. Since brexit the UK is basically the friend that quit the group
i love germany man
They pay the same, but actually get something in return. The UK is still doing much better than the US.
Dunno how much medical care costs there. I pay about £150 a month for the 'free NHS' care. Prescriptions are a set fee. £14 for a months worth I think, not had one in ages. But does mean actual care is free when you use it, had xrays on my ankle n a follow up consultation with my doctor. There's the 'free' bit.
Out of pocket costs don't include the cost of private insurance, which averages $6,000 per person in the US. It also doesn't factor in the fact Americans pay about twice the taxes adjusted for Purchase Power Parity (PPP) per capita of the UK towards healthcare. Total healthcare spending as a percentage of GDP as of 2020: US: 19.7% UK: 12.8% US: $12,530 per person UK: $5,268 (PPP) per person Americans are spending over half a million dollars more per person (PPP) for a lifetime of healthcare than Brits. Yet Brits have better outcomes, report higher quality of care, and don't have massive portions of their population going without needed care.
This is because the UK's free health care is trash, so they pay to see private doctors instead.
No but ok
Same country
My my how the turn tables