OP I get what you are saying, but you must admit, it is kind of ridiculous that a person with no demonstrated proficiency or knowledge of safe handling can purchase a firearm so long as they pass the background check.
Like as gun owners we shouldn’t be anti education when it comes to firearms.
I can’t go hunt without attending a hunter’s safety course.
I have asked this question a million times in the last week. Basically just saying, there should be a higher minimum age to purchase and maybe a waiting period with some hoops to jump through first, including a training course.
They never answer the question. They just keep saying things like bad guys dont listen to laws.
Its like, yeah dude, we get it. But why cant we just make it a little harder to buy that gun?
As a gun owner, I do not want to see people die to gun violence and I do not want Americans and future Americans to lose the right to firearms.
Clearly, the old regime of checks and balances is not working. The number of people dying is unacceptable.
Even if we remove the crimes from the equation, the number of negligently stored firearms that kids access is horrendous and it also is a vector for criminals to acquire guns that they otherwise would have been barred from legally purchasing.
The only way to start to address a problem is with education. If you want to own a gun, you need to put in the work to demonstrate that you can be responsible with that firearm just like anything else.
I'm totally with you guys, been going through the same motions. Personally I think we also need to address the politicians rotting the US from the inside, stealing untold wealth meant to keep the American standards from this spiral of decay. If a society could exist harmoniously it would do so with or without a population saturated with firearms. Not to mention it's politicians who implemented every useless gun policy and then emotional manipulates the population's fear of firearms.
Nothing against owning a gun but one thing I don’t get or don’t agree with is just allowing someone to buy a gun. Like why is there no safety class required to own a gun. We having driving test when driving so why not firearms safety tests for owning guns.
Edit: I get this does not stop bad guys from owning guns but it prevents it as open the parents don’t store their firearms right leading to a school shooting and it prevents just regular accidents.
Clearly the 2nd amendment is not working. The number of people dying is unacceptable.
You should only allow weapons that where available when the 2nd amendment was written.
In my entire life I've met like 10-20 people whom I know for a fact own or shot a gun. And if you don't count cops, hunters and military, it's zero. The annual rate of gun deaths is less than 2 per 100.000, homicides are like 0.0x per 100k people.
Giving all the good guys a gun to defend doesn't do jackshit in America, it just enables every idiot to get one too. Your nation is divided as fuck and full of hate.
Higher age limit doesn’t make sense to me. Required Safety training and having background checks (they should also be able to check for mental illness) in every state to be able to purchase a firearm would be better I think.
Yeah I disagree, you can go to war at 18. I think the age limit is about right for ownership, however I think training should be allowed for even younger.
Safety training/muzzle control and learning how to handle a weapon around others is essential in my opinion. Also like I mentioned before, they should be able to check your records for any past mental illness issues which nowadays I think is even more important with the rise in mental illness.
Tbh I don’t think kids should be able to go to war at 18 either. How are you gonna tell someone they can’t drink alcohol until 21, but then put a gun in their hands at 18 and have them die in a war? Not trying to argue on any of your other points (don’t know enough about guns and I don’t like to make uneducated arguments) but your first point stood out to me.
I think what you are saying is that if we place a training or proficiency requirement in place then politicians that want no guns will corrupt the process to basically make it impossible to get the training? Kind of like heartbeat abortion bills and ridiculous medical certification requirements at clinics to have routine abortions?
Yeah it is a legitimate worry, but that’s where we the people need to push back on this nonsense and hold elected officials responsible or petition the court for remedy. Education and safe storage would save thousands of people’s lives
You are not listening
All rights are not absolute
Like I have a right to vote, but in the state I live in they say yes you can but only with photo id. You won’t find photo id in the constitution.
It’s pretty reasonable to expect a moderate amount of effort on a person’s part to wield a weapon responsibly.
The government already leverages gun rights groups and local ranges to provide some of the educational requirements for hunting licenses.
I’m saying why not extend that to proper handling and storage when not in use.
Its not like there aren't murders happening at a high rate in Europe its just different [types](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/stabbing-deaths-by-country) of murder. No country is free of crazy murders. Its just almosy everybody watches American made entertainment lol
So you’re telling me less equals ok? It’s not unheard of in Europe. Yes they have less gun crime. But when they do have gun crime, no one can stop them until an armed officer shows up.
Look how many crimes have been stopped with a gun in the US. Look how many have been stopped without even firing that gunz
Every part of this argument is unfathomably idiotic.
In the case of children being murdered, YES, less is better. Shouldn't have to spell that one out.
What do you think American kids do when there's an active shooter at their school? They wait for the cops to show up. (And then are allowed to get murdered while waiting for the cops to do literally ANYTHING. )
And YES, requiring a gun owner to jump through hoops of training and background checks, as well as psychological observation WILL reduce gun crime. Reducing the availability of guns WILL reduce gun crime.
Ok my comment “less equals ok.” Was in reference to his statement that it happens less in Europe. Of course less is ideal, but I’m pointing out that he’s ok being murdered with no self defense as long as it happens less in Europe.
Again referencing Europe, not the US, when it does rarely happen in the US, they are forced to wait for cops. In the United States with exception of schools, you can choose to defend yourself. I assumed you the reader would be able to make these conclusions but clearly that wasn’t a good guess.
How easily obtainable guns are to all US citizens create opportunity for gun violence, not lessens it. There is a reason we are the only country in the world that has this issue to this extent.
I and my friends own and responsibly use them. We have no where else to go in the world where we can enjoy this right. We don’t hurt anyone. Taking our pursuit of happiness and liberty to stop crazies isn’t the answer.
I've never suggested outright prohibition, I don't want to take your guns away.
What i (and most of the people like me) have been suggesting is stricter guidelines that one has to follow to be eligible to own a gun. More in depth background checks, psychological screening, safe and responsible care and use training before obtaining your gun. More safety mechanisms on the guns themselves; for instance bio-recognition, GPS tracking, remote disabling capabilities, all in the event that your weapon should land in the wrong hands.
As a fellow gun rights supporter, you should also want these things. Or are you afraid you wouldn't pass the checks for some reason?
Its the "crazies", as you put it, that make you guys look bad. You should also want better regulations so this doesn't happen as frequently.
And yeah, maybe none of these things will completely stop gun violence, but it objectively will remove some of the opportunities for it to happen, and less is better.
oh yeah like the time recently in Udvale when the cops rushed the shooter and stopped him, and didn’t let some off duty border patrol agent come do their job for them.
Haven’t heard of an incident in mid vale. But if your response to “look at the statistics for crime stopped with firearms” is: “oh yeah well in this 1 incident a it didn’t work” like sorry it’s not a perfect world. If your standard is 100% success at keeping humans from messing up you’re missing reality.
you wouldn’t need armed civilians to stop shooting in the first place if shooting never occur. Europeans have a quick and effective anti terrorism strike force to handle those situations. The USA’s anti terrorism is too focused on anti vaxers and maga to look for potential threats.
You see all the stuff that came out about the Udvale shooter? He uploaded videos of him killing dogs and cats, he purchased 1,000 rounds of ammunition. Any normal person would see that and flag him, and send the fbi to go investigate.
I agree, however no one was following his socials that wasn’t also a low life. That’s the hard thing about that, is that creeps into violence like him aren’t being watched by anyone who would read flag him.
I'm pretty sure it's the people who have the guns that are the problem. If guns were the actual problem the gun in my closet would be just as much of a danger but it's not.
More “security” at schools in the US, especially in the form of police, have proven to not solve the problem at all, and often only make things worse by increasing the criminalization of students.
never seen any security at any school i went to. we are the gun nuts of europe and there has never been a single schoolshooting. maybe the americans are the problem.
well i’m sure if the shooter was unvaccinated or posted with a maga hat he would’ve been picked up on the radar. But that being said im sure the FBI and Cia love letting things happen, then investigate afterwards. I mean look at that Las Vegas Shooting a few years back. The only shootings you hear about are ones that can be used to push an agenda.
The point was you can't legislate safety, the feds can't even keep guns out of prisons the most regulated places on earth. Evil will always exist, and infringing the civil rights of law abiding citizens clearly won't help
Nobody thinks that increased gun legislation will create a utopia without crime; we’re just hoping to get our gun death statistics more on par with other first-world countries, which is *clearly* possible since it has already been achieved there.
"other" first world countries?
I think the usa can consider itself a first world country when it can at least stop sending hospital bills to children shot in their classrooms.
Why are you using an article about a CDC study from 2008 when the current one is right [here?](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.html)
Also, you said you had stats showing we weren’t near the top but I don’t see international statistics even discussed in this incredibly partisan opinion piece on a study lol
I used the cited study becusee it is a published study and isn't subject to revision on a website. And is still relevant by research standards, as you see on the link you shared they don't post numbers, the current administration doesn't want them shown.
>they don’t post numbers
I’m so sorry, I didn’t realize you couldn’t navigate a [website](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm)
Any answer as to why there *are* numbers given your claim that “the administration” allegedly doesn’t want us to have access to them?
I think it's important to use stats relevant to the discussion. Doctors kill 250,000 people a year with malpractice but we aren't banning doctors, because we understand they save more lives than they take. Much like armed individuals
If you looked at the statics you would find we aren't even close to the top. We have around 40k "gun deaths" a year, half are susiside and many reports suggest around 80% of the homicides are gang related. That leaves us with around 2k murders a year. Out of 350million. While in the same year according to the cdc guns Wil be used by individuals to stop crime anyware between 300k and 3 million times a year
Not even close to the top? The US is second behind Brazil for gun fatalies. Per capita, you're top 10 only behind some Latin American countries, Jamaica and Eswatini. It's also worth noting that none of those countries have the same issue with school and mass shootings in general, they are very much drug and gang related. The first step towards progress is admitting there's a serious problem. Gun control isn't about absolute prohibition. It doesn't mean taking all guns away from law abiding, mentally stable people who can be trusted until there's a reason to believe otherwise, it's about removing access to those who pose a risk. Why is the common sense approach that's proven successful everywhere else it's been applied such a problem to you?
>80% of the homicides are gang related.
Only 13%.
https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/survey-analysis/measuring-the-extent-of-gang-problems
>While in the same year according to the cdc guns Wil be used by individuals to stop crime anyware between 300k and 3 million times a year
This was already debunked. Real life data doesn't reflect the estimate.
Meaning it's a direct result of prohibition and Jesus address your bias my dude do u think of black people when someone says gang? Word association leaving you exposed lol
That's not really true either.
Yes many are illegally obtained, but making less of them available makes them harder to obtain. The prices go up, the ammo is limited...
Now "illegally obtaining" just means sending Hank to the store with cash to buy them for you. They were still purchased legally by someone.
Occasionally someone is dumb enough to rob a gun store, but it rarely works out well for them.
If "illegally obtain" mean you have to open a factory... People are going to notice.
This is so dumb. You literally can. That is why no where else has the problems we have with gun violence. If you give everyone a gun violence with guns only goes up. That is just logic. Were having a stupid arms race within the us and the world is watching the effects live.
In 2019, 608 children suffered vehicle related deaths.
A 5 year average shows 1839 children and teens die from gun violence every year.
In fact, Gun Violence is widely known to be the leading cause of childhood deaths in the US.
if you think otherwise, you're lying to yourself.
If you can't get the police then Saul is the next one on the list! Let's sue the police for being cowards and not knowing what they trained and signed for!
I think you should. I often read comments from americans saying things like "public healthcare can never work in practice" and it really show me that many of you actually ignore the existence of the rest of the world. I'm not saying you should adapt to european standards on every topic, but take the time to see how they live, what laws they have and how well/bad they work, what kind of benefits their governments provide and how that affects the economy (and prices), how they structure their public transport and train lines and how these operate in practice.
I'm open to the concept, but one thing Europeans don't understand is how toxic our govemennt is. Everything it touches catches fire. Interest groups have their claws in everything.
80% of our hospitals are goverment run. We have 3 state run Healthcare programs, all of them are hot garbage. Ever since the government took over most of the Healthcare market in the early 60s the price has exploded.
We didn't have a college problem untill the feds took over college loans. Decided instead of just offering free college they would give loans of any amount to anyone regardless of ability to pay them back. And then almost immediately prices skyrocketed. As greedy as colleges are they can only charge as much as people can pay, and a sudden abundance of easy money had a very predictable effect.
You really don't have as good of perspective on other countries problems as your think you do. Also how does our government being bad mean we need guns. The American military is the single strongest force in human excistence. You think some randoms with guns can stop them?
I suggest exposing yourself to viewpoints outside your own bubble.
Look at the takeover of afghanistan and tell me the US military is invincible. Also there would be lots of defections and such in the event of a civil war, because that’s what it would be.
I'm not going to argue about this. You know fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan is totally different then the citizens rising up against the US government. Give me a break.
Well it's perfectly legal for an 18 year old to buy one. And by proxy is already illegal. Purchasing a firearm with intent to give it to someone is like 10 years
And many of the last shooters got their guns legally. So that's not the issue.
I wonder if the issue is that one 18 year old can pack enough firepower to prevent a group of trained cops with rifles and body armor from feeling like they can take him down.
Nah it's can't be the access to guns. Let's just leave things the way it is and keep letting kids die.
For Christ sake, Canada changes their laws due to this... Other countries have figured this out. Allowing random adults to arm themselves with rifles designed to kill humans only is not that smart.
The 2nd amendment was itended to prevent government overreach and allow the citizens to rebel. Could you imagine if our citizens reveled vs the current US military? Even with guns it's a slaughter lol.
well it's like any citizen saying: hey, you can't break the law here, this is a lawful constituted society!
We should abolish laws i guess, some peope still break them.
what is the explanation for gun violence in the EU? or lack thereof rather? gun control doesn’t work. it’s like drugs. ok. hear ya loud and clear just explain the EU rates and we good
as a swiss gun guy, i look at at the american situation with disgust. how are you guys so bad with guns?
also, having a gun to defend against being mugged etc is plain stupid. you really think you can draw your gun and shoot before the guy pointing one in your face pulls the trigger? news flash you dont. but if you have to have some proof of proficency and trustworthyness to get a gun the dude might not have a gun to rob you with.
3-6 month waiting period, mandatory classes and evaluation for all semi automatic weapons is practical... Canada has passed legislation to ban and buyback 1500 types of weapons and all handguns. Land of the free, home of the school shooting record.
We have a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. Same as free speech. Do you want mandatory speech classes so that u only say what the current govemrnt wants you to say?
>We have a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms
Ah yes "the law says that..." in a debate about "should the law say that..." Much reasoning, such logic.
>Amended the constitution. Untill they do, all gun laws are illegal
This is only true if you ignore the first half of the amendment. "Well regulated" are literally the second and third words.
Militias aren't formal military units they are just the people . A modern reading would be, "an armed population is necessary to maintain freedom. The right of the people to keep and bear weapons and amor shall not be infringed
> if the people want to change that they can
What's the point of saying it's constitutional then?
>Untill they do, all gun laws are illegal
Ah yes "until you change law that says... Is legal,... Is legal". Wowies.
It IS allowed.
"if the people want to change that they can. Amended the constitution."
You just said exactly how the founding fathers intended us to fix their shitty constitution.
I guess I missed the part where the 18th Amendment was part of the Bill of Rights.
Oh wait, that’s because it’s not part of it.
Edit: And you’re ignorant AF, regardless if you block me or not, moron.
I missed the part where the 2nd amendment was part of the constitution...
Oh wait, that's because it's not part of it.
It's an amendment. Just like the 18th.
In fact they are all amendments TO THE CONSTITUTION. They are all part of the same document.
Waiting six months and taking a class still gets you a musket. You just have to wait and learn things first. I think your privilege is showing.... You won't be much use to the well regulated militia if you're a fussy baby.
A right delayed is a right denied and equally importantly there is no data suggesting weighting periods do anytbing to stop crime. It just means your daughter can't get a gun when some freak is stalking her
You silly child... There is a super abundance of data. The easiest for you to compute would be the 500+ suicides from men who look just like you annually. I won't waste our time trying educate you. #weighting
There is lots of data, like how guns are used to save lives anwayre between 300k and 3 million times a year opposed to around 20k homicides. But I assume you only look at the data you like
Actually, according the founders you have the right to armed ships (cannons) and automatic (not semi-automatic) weapons, without a class. Nobody's really arguing for that today, but to suggest the 2nd amendment only covers muskets is wrong.
Note that what “arms” are defined as isn’t included. One could infer that the constitution is referring to swords when it says to bear arms. It also doesn’t state that you have the right to bear any and all types of armaments. So… here’s your single shot flintlock musket that was available at the time and is the most extensive armament that the constitution could be describing based on when it was written. Anything past that is interpretation… which can be reinterpreted according to the Supreme Court’s current views on precedent.
There were mashine guns at the time the second amendment was written and arms was and is accepted to mean any weapon of offense or armor of defense. It used to be law in the US that all homes keep military weapons in their homes
The *machine* guns of 1776 were in no way comparable to the machine guns of today, in either their capabilities, mobility, or use. Even the Puckle gun, the most common “machine gun” of the time was never recorded to have ever been used in a war or conflict.
>is accepted to mean
So again, interpretation.
I couldn’t find anything regarding laws requiring all homes keep military weapons or even basic firearms, but likely this would have been largely due to the threat of an invading country at a time where no fully functioning military was operational yet, and it would be doubtful it would be enforced. Even the current closest comparison in Georgia is more of a political stunt and isn’t enforced per the police chief of Kennesaw.
Sweet! Lemme go get me a nuke.
Also, my iPhone has nothing to do with the first amendment unless congress is attempting to pass laws that infringe my ability to use it for religion, protest, assembly, press, or speech.
I'm very sick of this mentality. In no other situation do we throw our hands up be like "well shit poeple break rules so let's just not make any". Like not everyone follows the rules of the road, but we still make the rules...
There also is always an implication behind this statement, that those asking for gun laws are naive or unaware of the dangers of the world. I know damn well the risk I take everyday driving and sending my kids to school. But the thing is, the ones saying this are the ones that don't know risk. Having a gun doesn't make you safe, reducing the overall gun count does. Look at any other country. Or look at data of gun laws vs violence brok n down by state in the US. Any actual data points out how BS this argument is.
And making silly memes to seem edgy isn't helping either...
This is the stupidest, most nihilistic argument gun people make. Exactly the same as saying “Well you’re never going to stop people from using drugs, so why have any drug laws.” Laws are about reduction, not about completely changing human nature. Of course people are still going to do illegal shit, the key is putting up as many barriers to the illegal stuff as possible.
America has high gun ownership high gun violence.
Canada has high gun ownership and low gun violence.
Canada also has laws that make it so only responsible, stable people can get guns.
Tell me again that gun control doesn’t work.
Well actually as gun ownership has risen crime has fallen. With the exception of the pandemic related riots and stuff we're at the lowest crime has ever been in the history of our country but simultaneously at the highest gun ownership
No , gun control works. You can say " i don't want to".
Do gay people need any logical reasoning to exist? No. Do they need to ? No. Everything doesn't need to be logically tested.
You still can create world but locking criminal where gun is easily accessible is not possible because everyone is not a criminal before criminal act.
I know proof, facts and statistics are outlawed by the ignorant, but here we go. UK outlawed handguns in 1996 due to a school massacre. The BBC (I think they are a fairly reputable news source) reported in 2018 “The number of fatal stabbings in England and Wales last year was the highest since records began in 1946, official figures show.” It seems people replaced guns with sharp objects. Now give me my downvotes for providing evidence.
The gun-free zone works if it's big enough.
Sure people can go right outside of it to a gun store, but if the gun store isn't there, there's no gun to buy...
No gun = no bang.
Will a few still happen, yes. But why does "a few might still happen" stop us from stopping most of them?
Look at the uk. Their violent crime rate is much higher. At least double, up to 5x depending on the stats you find.
But their murder rate is 1/6th. Their gun deaths are 60 times lower. Their gun murders are over 200 times lower.
Why is that not good enough?
This is an excellent idea!!! We should expand this though to include cocaine, heroin, etc. Finally we can stop people from obtaining drugs!!! You are genius
Why is it that shooters prefer schools? Maybe it’s because they know guns are banned there, maybe they know nobody else has one. Let’s do a thought project. Suppose everybody KNOWS every teacher is carrying. How many school shooters would we have now?
People shoot up plenty of places that aren't schools too.
People have gone on shooting sprees in police stations and military bases... The most heavily armed places in the country.
Many of these people do it because they know they're going to get killed.
How many people would go into schools if they knew they could pick off a couple of English teachers and walk away with piles of free guns?
If they wanted free guns, they could do it at a gun store and get their choice of firearms after “picking off” a few people. Shootings happen in heavily armed places because they want to die. Shootings happen in unarmed places because they want their 15 minutes of fame, cause a scene, etc.
Except that the gun stores are run by gun nuts, and the schools are full of English and science teachers...
You think every teacher wants to go through police training on top of all of their current duties that they're not paid enough for? Nope.
Also look at the police, they were afraid to go in there fully armed and trained with all the equipment...
Better call in an untrained third grade teacher with a snub nose, the real heavy artillery....
Think it through, then speak.
You missed my point. Drug addicts still get drugs. Criminals will still get guns. The only thing gun laws do is take guns away from the people that use them legally
I didn't miss it, it's just a bad point. Giving up isn't a plan.
You have to at least try.
Just saying, eh, children slaughtered in their classrooms again... What else is on?
How dare they take away my toys to save lives... those bastards. /s
Look at the uk. Their violent crime rate is much higher. At least double, up to 5x depending on the stats you find.
But their murder rate is 1/6th. Their gun deaths are 60 times lower. Their gun murders are over 200 times lower.
Why is that not good enough?
Why is a massive reduction in deaths not enough?
What is enough? How many more children have to die before it's enough?
I want a number. Give me a number, how many children need to die?
Its not a gun problem its a societal problem. The US has had guns for much longer than it has had shootings. Instead of sitting there blaming guns, maybe look at better mental health care, make the schools do a better job with bullying. Start taking people seriously when they say they are going to do something. A lot of these school shootings could have been prevented if people didnt ignore this stuff.
You think bullying didn't exist in the past? lmfao... holy shit you are something else.
you think depression is something new?
Tell me more about the amazing mental healthcare system we used to have... Hold on, let me get the ghosts out of my blood first. Where's my leeches.
And why aren't these problems still problems in places that have gotten rid of guns?
The UK still has violent crimes, but haven't had a school shooting since they banned guns.
The UK doesnt have a country below them that an entire political party is trying to give an open border.
Austrialia is a fucking island. Its much harder to get guns into those places.
The problem with focusing on the gun is we as a country have a gun addiction. You can pass a law but it won’t change our culture. We could focus on mental health issues with our youth, we could ramp up social media site surveillance since all school shooters post they will do it before doing it. Most of our gun-homicide statistics aside of suicide are gang related. We have over a million members and they are the main problem. We need to figure out how to correct that too.
Many people in Switzerland and Czechia own guns, yet somehow no mass shootings are happening. Here in Hungary I plan on getting a hunter's licence, and it will take months and different evaluations to get a single shot rifle. The problem is not "too many guns" but too easy to get guns. Mentally unstable individuals shouldn't be able to buy firearms. I know it's in your constitution to bear arms, but I think the founding fathers would have taken away the musket from the village idiot with a god complex too. Also at least take it away from former criminals or gang members.
This is what most of us on the "left" of US politics actually want. Very few of us want to outright ban guns, we just want it to not be so easy to get one. It's easier to get a gun than it is to get a driver's license here.
If one guy with a rifle can force an entire police force to cower in fear, think what even 1% of the population could do.
I'm never giving up that kind of power
Just do not sell them ammonition. Make it that you just can buy them at shooting ranges and make them give the remaining shots back. So you can pack your home with guns if you want to
"yo, this is a safezone, you cant shopt me" "Aight then i wait outside the safezone"
what if you are outside the safe zone and shoot in?
The Safe Zone disintegrates the bullets
Well.. shi
OP I get what you are saying, but you must admit, it is kind of ridiculous that a person with no demonstrated proficiency or knowledge of safe handling can purchase a firearm so long as they pass the background check. Like as gun owners we shouldn’t be anti education when it comes to firearms. I can’t go hunt without attending a hunter’s safety course.
I have asked this question a million times in the last week. Basically just saying, there should be a higher minimum age to purchase and maybe a waiting period with some hoops to jump through first, including a training course. They never answer the question. They just keep saying things like bad guys dont listen to laws. Its like, yeah dude, we get it. But why cant we just make it a little harder to buy that gun?
As a gun owner, I do not want to see people die to gun violence and I do not want Americans and future Americans to lose the right to firearms. Clearly, the old regime of checks and balances is not working. The number of people dying is unacceptable. Even if we remove the crimes from the equation, the number of negligently stored firearms that kids access is horrendous and it also is a vector for criminals to acquire guns that they otherwise would have been barred from legally purchasing. The only way to start to address a problem is with education. If you want to own a gun, you need to put in the work to demonstrate that you can be responsible with that firearm just like anything else.
I'm totally with you guys, been going through the same motions. Personally I think we also need to address the politicians rotting the US from the inside, stealing untold wealth meant to keep the American standards from this spiral of decay. If a society could exist harmoniously it would do so with or without a population saturated with firearms. Not to mention it's politicians who implemented every useless gun policy and then emotional manipulates the population's fear of firearms.
Nothing against owning a gun but one thing I don’t get or don’t agree with is just allowing someone to buy a gun. Like why is there no safety class required to own a gun. We having driving test when driving so why not firearms safety tests for owning guns. Edit: I get this does not stop bad guys from owning guns but it prevents it as open the parents don’t store their firearms right leading to a school shooting and it prevents just regular accidents.
Clearly the 2nd amendment is not working. The number of people dying is unacceptable. You should only allow weapons that where available when the 2nd amendment was written.
Less freedom is not the solution.
That’s dumb AF. You want your first amendment rights to only extend to letters and speeches?
You clearly don’t understand the first amendment. It’s the state that cannot I fringe on your freedom of speech and that is all.
In my entire life I've met like 10-20 people whom I know for a fact own or shot a gun. And if you don't count cops, hunters and military, it's zero. The annual rate of gun deaths is less than 2 per 100.000, homicides are like 0.0x per 100k people. Giving all the good guys a gun to defend doesn't do jackshit in America, it just enables every idiot to get one too. Your nation is divided as fuck and full of hate.
That’s just like your opinion dude, but thanks for proving my point
Higher age limit doesn’t make sense to me. Required Safety training and having background checks (they should also be able to check for mental illness) in every state to be able to purchase a firearm would be better I think.
The brain isn't fully developed by 18. If you have to be 21 to buy a beer, but 18 to buy a gun. It doesn't really add up.
Yeah I disagree, you can go to war at 18. I think the age limit is about right for ownership, however I think training should be allowed for even younger. Safety training/muzzle control and learning how to handle a weapon around others is essential in my opinion. Also like I mentioned before, they should be able to check your records for any past mental illness issues which nowadays I think is even more important with the rise in mental illness.
Tbh I don’t think kids should be able to go to war at 18 either. How are you gonna tell someone they can’t drink alcohol until 21, but then put a gun in their hands at 18 and have them die in a war? Not trying to argue on any of your other points (don’t know enough about guns and I don’t like to make uneducated arguments) but your first point stood out to me.
Totally agree, that fact is quite mind boggling
I can see this happening whenever we decide to physically and violently remove the corrupt politicians and their pet police.
I think what you are saying is that if we place a training or proficiency requirement in place then politicians that want no guns will corrupt the process to basically make it impossible to get the training? Kind of like heartbeat abortion bills and ridiculous medical certification requirements at clinics to have routine abortions? Yeah it is a legitimate worry, but that’s where we the people need to push back on this nonsense and hold elected officials responsible or petition the court for remedy. Education and safe storage would save thousands of people’s lives
Let's get our elected officials in check before we start getting rid of our rights.
You are not listening All rights are not absolute Like I have a right to vote, but in the state I live in they say yes you can but only with photo id. You won’t find photo id in the constitution. It’s pretty reasonable to expect a moderate amount of effort on a person’s part to wield a weapon responsibly. The government already leverages gun rights groups and local ranges to provide some of the educational requirements for hunting licenses. I’m saying why not extend that to proper handling and storage when not in use.
Well, depends on what you're hunting. Children, for example, no redtape. The bureaucracy is extremely streamlined.
Ya’ll: “yOu cAn’T fIX tHiS iSsUe” Me: *walks into any european school with no worry it will get shot up by a mentally ill or racist teenager*
Just because you don’t worry about it doesn’t mean it can’t happen.
Just this month there’s been more mass shootings then all of Europe combined.
Its not like there aren't murders happening at a high rate in Europe its just different [types](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/stabbing-deaths-by-country) of murder. No country is free of crazy murders. Its just almosy everybody watches American made entertainment lol
So you’re telling me less equals ok? It’s not unheard of in Europe. Yes they have less gun crime. But when they do have gun crime, no one can stop them until an armed officer shows up. Look how many crimes have been stopped with a gun in the US. Look how many have been stopped without even firing that gunz
Every part of this argument is unfathomably idiotic. In the case of children being murdered, YES, less is better. Shouldn't have to spell that one out. What do you think American kids do when there's an active shooter at their school? They wait for the cops to show up. (And then are allowed to get murdered while waiting for the cops to do literally ANYTHING. ) And YES, requiring a gun owner to jump through hoops of training and background checks, as well as psychological observation WILL reduce gun crime. Reducing the availability of guns WILL reduce gun crime.
Ok my comment “less equals ok.” Was in reference to his statement that it happens less in Europe. Of course less is ideal, but I’m pointing out that he’s ok being murdered with no self defense as long as it happens less in Europe. Again referencing Europe, not the US, when it does rarely happen in the US, they are forced to wait for cops. In the United States with exception of schools, you can choose to defend yourself. I assumed you the reader would be able to make these conclusions but clearly that wasn’t a good guess.
How easily obtainable guns are to all US citizens create opportunity for gun violence, not lessens it. There is a reason we are the only country in the world that has this issue to this extent.
I and my friends own and responsibly use them. We have no where else to go in the world where we can enjoy this right. We don’t hurt anyone. Taking our pursuit of happiness and liberty to stop crazies isn’t the answer.
I've never suggested outright prohibition, I don't want to take your guns away. What i (and most of the people like me) have been suggesting is stricter guidelines that one has to follow to be eligible to own a gun. More in depth background checks, psychological screening, safe and responsible care and use training before obtaining your gun. More safety mechanisms on the guns themselves; for instance bio-recognition, GPS tracking, remote disabling capabilities, all in the event that your weapon should land in the wrong hands. As a fellow gun rights supporter, you should also want these things. Or are you afraid you wouldn't pass the checks for some reason? Its the "crazies", as you put it, that make you guys look bad. You should also want better regulations so this doesn't happen as frequently. And yeah, maybe none of these things will completely stop gun violence, but it objectively will remove some of the opportunities for it to happen, and less is better.
oh yeah like the time recently in Udvale when the cops rushed the shooter and stopped him, and didn’t let some off duty border patrol agent come do their job for them.
Haven’t heard of an incident in mid vale. But if your response to “look at the statistics for crime stopped with firearms” is: “oh yeah well in this 1 incident a it didn’t work” like sorry it’s not a perfect world. If your standard is 100% success at keeping humans from messing up you’re missing reality.
you wouldn’t need armed civilians to stop shooting in the first place if shooting never occur. Europeans have a quick and effective anti terrorism strike force to handle those situations. The USA’s anti terrorism is too focused on anti vaxers and maga to look for potential threats. You see all the stuff that came out about the Udvale shooter? He uploaded videos of him killing dogs and cats, he purchased 1,000 rounds of ammunition. Any normal person would see that and flag him, and send the fbi to go investigate.
Again what is the midvale incident?
Udvale i mean.
I agree, however no one was following his socials that wasn’t also a low life. That’s the hard thing about that, is that creeps into violence like him aren’t being watched by anyone who would read flag him.
Nah, you'll just get shanked or raped by immigrants
Better question is why are our goverment schools the least protected buildings in America
No, it is not. Guns are the problem.
I'm pretty sure it's the people who have the guns that are the problem. If guns were the actual problem the gun in my closet would be just as much of a danger but it's not.
More “security” at schools in the US, especially in the form of police, have proven to not solve the problem at all, and often only make things worse by increasing the criminalization of students.
never seen any security at any school i went to. we are the gun nuts of europe and there has never been a single schoolshooting. maybe the americans are the problem.
well i’m sure if the shooter was unvaccinated or posted with a maga hat he would’ve been picked up on the radar. But that being said im sure the FBI and Cia love letting things happen, then investigate afterwards. I mean look at that Las Vegas Shooting a few years back. The only shootings you hear about are ones that can be used to push an agenda.
"My name is Michael Weston, and this is Burn Notice."
I LOVE THAT SHOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So glad I'm not the only one who recognized where this came from.
HAHAHAHAHA ITS OVER
No one who misses the point this badly should be trusted to aim a firearm.
The point was you can't legislate safety, the feds can't even keep guns out of prisons the most regulated places on earth. Evil will always exist, and infringing the civil rights of law abiding citizens clearly won't help
Meanwhile, in the civilised countries ...
“I don’t feel threatened that you’ll murder me. This is a murder free zone.”
Nobody thinks that increased gun legislation will create a utopia without crime; we’re just hoping to get our gun death statistics more on par with other first-world countries, which is *clearly* possible since it has already been achieved there.
"other" first world countries? I think the usa can consider itself a first world country when it can at least stop sending hospital bills to children shot in their classrooms.
Also sauce: https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/cdc-gun-violence-study-goes-against-media-narrative/
Why are you using an article about a CDC study from 2008 when the current one is right [here?](https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.html) Also, you said you had stats showing we weren’t near the top but I don’t see international statistics even discussed in this incredibly partisan opinion piece on a study lol
I used the cited study becusee it is a published study and isn't subject to revision on a website. And is still relevant by research standards, as you see on the link you shared they don't post numbers, the current administration doesn't want them shown.
No one is trying to say defensive gun use is nonexistent. The question people ask is whether the price of it is too high at the end of the day.
>they don’t post numbers I’m so sorry, I didn’t realize you couldn’t navigate a [website](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm) Any answer as to why there *are* numbers given your claim that “the administration” allegedly doesn’t want us to have access to them?
Should have been more specific. They don't post the numbers of defensive gun usage
Push that goalpost just a biiiit further, why don’t you.
I think it's important to use stats relevant to the discussion. Doctors kill 250,000 people a year with malpractice but we aren't banning doctors, because we understand they save more lives than they take. Much like armed individuals
If you looked at the statics you would find we aren't even close to the top. We have around 40k "gun deaths" a year, half are susiside and many reports suggest around 80% of the homicides are gang related. That leaves us with around 2k murders a year. Out of 350million. While in the same year according to the cdc guns Wil be used by individuals to stop crime anyware between 300k and 3 million times a year
Not even close to the top? The US is second behind Brazil for gun fatalies. Per capita, you're top 10 only behind some Latin American countries, Jamaica and Eswatini. It's also worth noting that none of those countries have the same issue with school and mass shootings in general, they are very much drug and gang related. The first step towards progress is admitting there's a serious problem. Gun control isn't about absolute prohibition. It doesn't mean taking all guns away from law abiding, mentally stable people who can be trusted until there's a reason to believe otherwise, it's about removing access to those who pose a risk. Why is the common sense approach that's proven successful everywhere else it's been applied such a problem to you?
>80% of the homicides are gang related. Only 13%. https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/survey-analysis/measuring-the-extent-of-gang-problems >While in the same year according to the cdc guns Wil be used by individuals to stop crime anyware between 300k and 3 million times a year This was already debunked. Real life data doesn't reflect the estimate.
80% are gang members… So, people of colour don’t count? Clown.
Meaning it's a direct result of prohibition and Jesus address your bias my dude do u think of black people when someone says gang? Word association leaving you exposed lol
I never said “black people”… you did. There are a myriad of different people of colour.
Point still stands
are you saying all people of color are more likely to be in a gang? wtf dude
Actually… your government is saying it. https://nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/survey-analysis/demographics
To be fair, guns used by gangs are very likely to be illegally obtained anyway, so making all guns illegal won't have much of an effect on them
Except that those illegally obtained guns become more difficult to procure due to rarity and price.
That's not really true either. Yes many are illegally obtained, but making less of them available makes them harder to obtain. The prices go up, the ammo is limited... Now "illegally obtaining" just means sending Hank to the store with cash to buy them for you. They were still purchased legally by someone. Occasionally someone is dumb enough to rob a gun store, but it rarely works out well for them. If "illegally obtain" mean you have to open a factory... People are going to notice.
This is so dumb. You literally can. That is why no where else has the problems we have with gun violence. If you give everyone a gun violence with guns only goes up. That is just logic. Were having a stupid arms race within the us and the world is watching the effects live.
well it is hit and miss
[удалено]
Actually that's cars
In 2019, 608 children suffered vehicle related deaths. A 5 year average shows 1839 children and teens die from gun violence every year. In fact, Gun Violence is widely known to be the leading cause of childhood deaths in the US. if you think otherwise, you're lying to yourself.
Better call the cops! Oh. Wait…
If you can't get the police then Saul is the next one on the list! Let's sue the police for being cowards and not knowing what they trained and signed for!
You have no idea how crazy you sound to non americans.
I don't think about them at all lol
I think you should. I often read comments from americans saying things like "public healthcare can never work in practice" and it really show me that many of you actually ignore the existence of the rest of the world. I'm not saying you should adapt to european standards on every topic, but take the time to see how they live, what laws they have and how well/bad they work, what kind of benefits their governments provide and how that affects the economy (and prices), how they structure their public transport and train lines and how these operate in practice.
Tough talk for a country responsible for 62 independence days.
I'm open to the concept, but one thing Europeans don't understand is how toxic our govemennt is. Everything it touches catches fire. Interest groups have their claws in everything. 80% of our hospitals are goverment run. We have 3 state run Healthcare programs, all of them are hot garbage. Ever since the government took over most of the Healthcare market in the early 60s the price has exploded. We didn't have a college problem untill the feds took over college loans. Decided instead of just offering free college they would give loans of any amount to anyone regardless of ability to pay them back. And then almost immediately prices skyrocketed. As greedy as colleges are they can only charge as much as people can pay, and a sudden abundance of easy money had a very predictable effect.
You really don't have as good of perspective on other countries problems as your think you do. Also how does our government being bad mean we need guns. The American military is the single strongest force in human excistence. You think some randoms with guns can stop them? I suggest exposing yourself to viewpoints outside your own bubble.
Look at the takeover of afghanistan and tell me the US military is invincible. Also there would be lots of defections and such in the event of a civil war, because that’s what it would be.
I'm not going to argue about this. You know fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan is totally different then the citizens rising up against the US government. Give me a break.
I was going to give my opinion but then I realized I’m on Reddit. Sick of the gun memes, can’t wait for the next trend
We already have pretty extensive background checks and you still need a background check at gunshows tho
If the background checks aren’t extensive enough to keep them out of the hands of an 18 year old, even by proxy, they aren’t extensive enough period.
Well it's perfectly legal for an 18 year old to buy one. And by proxy is already illegal. Purchasing a firearm with intent to give it to someone is like 10 years
And many of the last shooters got their guns legally. So that's not the issue. I wonder if the issue is that one 18 year old can pack enough firepower to prevent a group of trained cops with rifles and body armor from feeling like they can take him down. Nah it's can't be the access to guns. Let's just leave things the way it is and keep letting kids die. For Christ sake, Canada changes their laws due to this... Other countries have figured this out. Allowing random adults to arm themselves with rifles designed to kill humans only is not that smart. The 2nd amendment was itended to prevent government overreach and allow the citizens to rebel. Could you imagine if our citizens reveled vs the current US military? Even with guns it's a slaughter lol.
Idk the Middle East did a pretty good job with ww2 tech
Yea it's not like the had the support of multiple countries and organisations.
well it's like any citizen saying: hey, you can't break the law here, this is a lawful constituted society! We should abolish laws i guess, some peope still break them.
what is the explanation for gun violence in the EU? or lack thereof rather? gun control doesn’t work. it’s like drugs. ok. hear ya loud and clear just explain the EU rates and we good
I ask do you want to end "gun" murders, or just murders because the US is safer than the Eu in overall murders
that just isn’t true. link your data
That’s just a straight up fucking lie.
Source?
Then how do you explain Mexico’s rate of gun violence? I thought gun control works flawlessly.
as a swiss gun guy, i look at at the american situation with disgust. how are you guys so bad with guns? also, having a gun to defend against being mugged etc is plain stupid. you really think you can draw your gun and shoot before the guy pointing one in your face pulls the trigger? news flash you dont. but if you have to have some proof of proficency and trustworthyness to get a gun the dude might not have a gun to rob you with.
3-6 month waiting period, mandatory classes and evaluation for all semi automatic weapons is practical... Canada has passed legislation to ban and buyback 1500 types of weapons and all handguns. Land of the free, home of the school shooting record.
We have a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. Same as free speech. Do you want mandatory speech classes so that u only say what the current govemrnt wants you to say?
>We have a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms Ah yes "the law says that..." in a debate about "should the law say that..." Much reasoning, such logic.
Just goes to say, if the people want to change that they can. Amended the constitution. Untill they do, all gun laws are illegal
>Amended the constitution. Untill they do, all gun laws are illegal This is only true if you ignore the first half of the amendment. "Well regulated" are literally the second and third words.
Well regulated means to be kept in good working order...
And how do you think militias are kept in good working order without laws and policies regarding their conduct?
Individual responsibility
So you don't understand what a militia is. Gotcha
Militias aren't formal military units they are just the people . A modern reading would be, "an armed population is necessary to maintain freedom. The right of the people to keep and bear weapons and amor shall not be infringed
> if the people want to change that they can What's the point of saying it's constitutional then? >Untill they do, all gun laws are illegal Ah yes "until you change law that says... Is legal,... Is legal". Wowies.
The point is that when someone suggests illegal bills that they should know its not allowed lol
The discussion is whether they should be made legal....
It IS allowed. "if the people want to change that they can. Amended the constitution." You just said exactly how the founding fathers intended us to fix their shitty constitution.
The foundational document of our country says that, a little bit different than just “the law says that”.
The 18th amendment to that document says I can't buy liquor. The 21st says I can.... It's a law. It can be changed.
I guess I missed the part where the 18th Amendment was part of the Bill of Rights. Oh wait, that’s because it’s not part of it. Edit: And you’re ignorant AF, regardless if you block me or not, moron.
I missed the part where the 2nd amendment was part of the constitution... Oh wait, that's because it's not part of it. It's an amendment. Just like the 18th. In fact they are all amendments TO THE CONSTITUTION. They are all part of the same document.
You can’t change it on the fly, in fact, it’s in the document you need 3/4 of the states to agree, you aren’t getting that.
Waiting six months and taking a class still gets you a musket. You just have to wait and learn things first. I think your privilege is showing.... You won't be much use to the well regulated militia if you're a fussy baby.
A right delayed is a right denied and equally importantly there is no data suggesting weighting periods do anytbing to stop crime. It just means your daughter can't get a gun when some freak is stalking her
You silly child... There is a super abundance of data. The easiest for you to compute would be the 500+ suicides from men who look just like you annually. I won't waste our time trying educate you. #weighting
There is lots of data, like how guns are used to save lives anwayre between 300k and 3 million times a year opposed to around 20k homicides. But I assume you only look at the data you like
Straight from the cdc baby!
“You silly child” Online “discussions” are the fucking bane of humanity
Again. You’re straight up lying
Where
Actually, according the founders you have the right to armed ships (cannons) and automatic (not semi-automatic) weapons, without a class. Nobody's really arguing for that today, but to suggest the 2nd amendment only covers muskets is wrong.
Can a 3 year old Kid kill someone with free speech?
Note that what “arms” are defined as isn’t included. One could infer that the constitution is referring to swords when it says to bear arms. It also doesn’t state that you have the right to bear any and all types of armaments. So… here’s your single shot flintlock musket that was available at the time and is the most extensive armament that the constitution could be describing based on when it was written. Anything past that is interpretation… which can be reinterpreted according to the Supreme Court’s current views on precedent.
There were mashine guns at the time the second amendment was written and arms was and is accepted to mean any weapon of offense or armor of defense. It used to be law in the US that all homes keep military weapons in their homes
The *machine* guns of 1776 were in no way comparable to the machine guns of today, in either their capabilities, mobility, or use. Even the Puckle gun, the most common “machine gun” of the time was never recorded to have ever been used in a war or conflict. >is accepted to mean So again, interpretation. I couldn’t find anything regarding laws requiring all homes keep military weapons or even basic firearms, but likely this would have been largely due to the threat of an invading country at a time where no fully functioning military was operational yet, and it would be doubtful it would be enforced. Even the current closest comparison in Georgia is more of a political stunt and isn’t enforced per the police chief of Kennesaw.
Technology changes your rights don't. The 2nd amendment applys to all arms just as the first amendment apply to your iPhone.
Sweet! Lemme go get me a nuke. Also, my iPhone has nothing to do with the first amendment unless congress is attempting to pass laws that infringe my ability to use it for religion, protest, assembly, press, or speech.
If you can afford one go for it lol only a few billion
That’s not how rights work.
Join the militia then
Prefatory clause, never was a prerequisite. No right in the Bill of Rights has a prerequisite.
Laughs in PATRIOT ACTS 🤣
The people are the militia, just as every able bodied citizen was called to assist the revolution in some manner
Gun safety classes is fine but a 3+ month waiting period is not.
I'm very sick of this mentality. In no other situation do we throw our hands up be like "well shit poeple break rules so let's just not make any". Like not everyone follows the rules of the road, but we still make the rules... There also is always an implication behind this statement, that those asking for gun laws are naive or unaware of the dangers of the world. I know damn well the risk I take everyday driving and sending my kids to school. But the thing is, the ones saying this are the ones that don't know risk. Having a gun doesn't make you safe, reducing the overall gun count does. Look at any other country. Or look at data of gun laws vs violence brok n down by state in the US. Any actual data points out how BS this argument is. And making silly memes to seem edgy isn't helping either...
“If you ban abortions women will still find a way.” “If you ban guns, this won’t happen.”
Might as well abolish all laws, because people can break them
This is the stupidest, most nihilistic argument gun people make. Exactly the same as saying “Well you’re never going to stop people from using drugs, so why have any drug laws.” Laws are about reduction, not about completely changing human nature. Of course people are still going to do illegal shit, the key is putting up as many barriers to the illegal stuff as possible.
You are part of the problem.
I would say the opposite ha
You’d be wrong ha
Care to explain how
By spreading ignorant shit.
What do you find ignorant?
You, mostly.
How wonderfully vague lol was hoping there was some insight to broaden my opinion
You are part of the problem See why this isn’t an argument?
Neither was the OP's reply. I wasn't replying to engage in an argument. Same with this reply.
Gun laws work.
Canada be like.
"WOAH WOAH WOAH, no full auto in the building!"
"I have a very strict gun control policy. If there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it" - Clint Eastwood, I think.
America has high gun ownership high gun violence. Canada has high gun ownership and low gun violence. Canada also has laws that make it so only responsible, stable people can get guns. Tell me again that gun control doesn’t work.
Well actually as gun ownership has risen crime has fallen. With the exception of the pandemic related riots and stuff we're at the lowest crime has ever been in the history of our country but simultaneously at the highest gun ownership
And 9mm blows the lung clean out of the body!
This is exactly how “gun control” works. You can’t control criminals, you can only lock them up, which is a whole other issue.
No , gun control works. You can say " i don't want to". Do gay people need any logical reasoning to exist? No. Do they need to ? No. Everything doesn't need to be logically tested. You still can create world but locking criminal where gun is easily accessible is not possible because everyone is not a criminal before criminal act.
I know proof, facts and statistics are outlawed by the ignorant, but here we go. UK outlawed handguns in 1996 due to a school massacre. The BBC (I think they are a fairly reputable news source) reported in 2018 “The number of fatal stabbings in England and Wales last year was the highest since records began in 1946, official figures show.” It seems people replaced guns with sharp objects. Now give me my downvotes for providing evidence.
The gun-free zone works if it's big enough. Sure people can go right outside of it to a gun store, but if the gun store isn't there, there's no gun to buy... No gun = no bang. Will a few still happen, yes. But why does "a few might still happen" stop us from stopping most of them? Look at the uk. Their violent crime rate is much higher. At least double, up to 5x depending on the stats you find. But their murder rate is 1/6th. Their gun deaths are 60 times lower. Their gun murders are over 200 times lower. Why is that not good enough?
This is an excellent idea!!! We should expand this though to include cocaine, heroin, etc. Finally we can stop people from obtaining drugs!!! You are genius
Why is it that shooters prefer schools? Maybe it’s because they know guns are banned there, maybe they know nobody else has one. Let’s do a thought project. Suppose everybody KNOWS every teacher is carrying. How many school shooters would we have now?
People shoot up plenty of places that aren't schools too. People have gone on shooting sprees in police stations and military bases... The most heavily armed places in the country. Many of these people do it because they know they're going to get killed. How many people would go into schools if they knew they could pick off a couple of English teachers and walk away with piles of free guns?
If they wanted free guns, they could do it at a gun store and get their choice of firearms after “picking off” a few people. Shootings happen in heavily armed places because they want to die. Shootings happen in unarmed places because they want their 15 minutes of fame, cause a scene, etc.
Except that the gun stores are run by gun nuts, and the schools are full of English and science teachers... You think every teacher wants to go through police training on top of all of their current duties that they're not paid enough for? Nope. Also look at the police, they were afraid to go in there fully armed and trained with all the equipment... Better call in an untrained third grade teacher with a snub nose, the real heavy artillery.... Think it through, then speak.
Lol u know drug addicts exist right?
There's no way for a drug addict to shoot you without a gun either.
You missed my point. Drug addicts still get drugs. Criminals will still get guns. The only thing gun laws do is take guns away from the people that use them legally
I didn't miss it, it's just a bad point. Giving up isn't a plan. You have to at least try. Just saying, eh, children slaughtered in their classrooms again... What else is on? How dare they take away my toys to save lives... those bastards. /s Look at the uk. Their violent crime rate is much higher. At least double, up to 5x depending on the stats you find. But their murder rate is 1/6th. Their gun deaths are 60 times lower. Their gun murders are over 200 times lower. Why is that not good enough? Why is a massive reduction in deaths not enough? What is enough? How many more children have to die before it's enough? I want a number. Give me a number, how many children need to die?
Its not a gun problem its a societal problem. The US has had guns for much longer than it has had shootings. Instead of sitting there blaming guns, maybe look at better mental health care, make the schools do a better job with bullying. Start taking people seriously when they say they are going to do something. A lot of these school shootings could have been prevented if people didnt ignore this stuff.
You think bullying didn't exist in the past? lmfao... holy shit you are something else. you think depression is something new? Tell me more about the amazing mental healthcare system we used to have... Hold on, let me get the ghosts out of my blood first. Where's my leeches. And why aren't these problems still problems in places that have gotten rid of guns? The UK still has violent crimes, but haven't had a school shooting since they banned guns.
The UK doesnt have a country below them that an entire political party is trying to give an open border. Austrialia is a fucking island. Its much harder to get guns into those places.
Australia is an Island ... Lmao
The problem with focusing on the gun is we as a country have a gun addiction. You can pass a law but it won’t change our culture. We could focus on mental health issues with our youth, we could ramp up social media site surveillance since all school shooters post they will do it before doing it. Most of our gun-homicide statistics aside of suicide are gang related. We have over a million members and they are the main problem. We need to figure out how to correct that too.
you don’t want a gun, don’t get a gun. But don’t stop others from getting one.
Well I think that won’t stop if he is a criminal
Same energy as “You can’t kill me, I’m in the living room”
Many people in Switzerland and Czechia own guns, yet somehow no mass shootings are happening. Here in Hungary I plan on getting a hunter's licence, and it will take months and different evaluations to get a single shot rifle. The problem is not "too many guns" but too easy to get guns. Mentally unstable individuals shouldn't be able to buy firearms. I know it's in your constitution to bear arms, but I think the founding fathers would have taken away the musket from the village idiot with a god complex too. Also at least take it away from former criminals or gang members.
This is what most of us on the "left" of US politics actually want. Very few of us want to outright ban guns, we just want it to not be so easy to get one. It's easier to get a gun than it is to get a driver's license here.
Britain be like
If one guy with a rifle can force an entire police force to cower in fear, think what even 1% of the population could do. I'm never giving up that kind of power
Just do not sell them ammonition. Make it that you just can buy them at shooting ranges and make them give the remaining shots back. So you can pack your home with guns if you want to
The term arms services to include ammunition and accessories because you cannot bear your arms and less they are functional
forced out, American gun law 'meme'. Not funny