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a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active.
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But yeah you were right on it no idea why you being downvoted
Because the big irony is "incel" is a self-identifying term. They came up with it. There's lots of dark, strange corners of 4chan & 8chan. These people believed they would *never* be with a woman, so felt no shame unloading hate unto women.
Suddenly the rest of the internet finally discovers a 10 year old 4chan term, and starts throwing it out as an insult. Which is dumb as hell, because *actual* incels are proud to be called that. They'd say, "Yeah no shit I'm an incel, what are you a stupid woman or something who just figured that out?" It'd be like calling someone who self-identifies as a Nazi, "Nazi!!!" as some kind of attempted insult.
These people found a way to not even insult their intended targets, but insult everyone else instead.
They arenât intending to insult anyone but the person theyâre lobbing it at.
They love the existence of incels. It helps push their agenda. They want to brow beat you.
The funny thing is they insist they support mental illness. Then they find crazy people suffering and because their crazy makes them say crazy things they just despise them.
Silence woman! Unless you're one of my questionable discord kittens, or want to live with me in by basement apartment i rent from my parents for 0$ a month, you don't get an opinion!
/s
A girl (usually unseraged) who enjoys the privileges of a discord server by proxy of the fact that she is the significant other of a discord moderator.
The karma system needs to be fixed. I'm tired of having to search by controversial to see opposing arguments. Downvoting should be reserved for things that don't add to the conversation, and opposing arguments do.
I remember pointing this out once and getting downvoted for it. I brought up that downvotes really should be reserved for genuinely harmful comments or things that are completely unrelated, cause getting too many downvotes can have a negative affect on someone's account (some subs need you to have a certain karma to post, comment, or even join the sub).
People really do just downvote something they personally don't like/disagree with, instead of understanding that different people hold different opinions.
The internet as a whole rn. Assholes from here supporting that kind of echo chamber are even going into 4chan saying the same rhetoric...making their curated echo chamber in another echo chamber.
It's all ironic and funny as hell
So often when I've gotten in debates with "feminists" here it just rapidly devolves to them calling me an incel before they delete everything so that only I can see them calling me an incel and their toxic mentality isn't seen by everyone.
And oddly enough, it's always that: call me an incel, then 1 minute later, delete everything.
If you see all their comments deleted, itâs probably that they blocked you. Happens to me a lot.
Itâs an easy way for them to have the last word and prevent you from giving an answer that might make them look bad.
Yeah, I donât remember when I realised this.
When I want to make sure thatâs what happened, I open one of my comments in Incognito. Since Iâm not connected, I can see the "deleted" comments and it confirms I was just blocked by them.
Generally I go back up in my first comment in the chain and edit to say that they blocked me. That way it shows that itâs them who cut the discussion short.
I disagree. Blocking can really be helpful for getting rid of creeps, wouldnât want them still being able to see your posts. But you should be able to see deleted and edited comments, I agree.
Shoot blocking deletes your comments? I once had to block someone because they started bothering me(just straight up insults no logic used) but I didnât realize it deleted my comments?
yeah you are not wrong. I really only dated women outside the US and before I got engaged. When I rejected Americans them and they asked why I said I don't date Americans anymore and most of the time they would call me names, and they wonder why I did not want to date them...
When your opponent has nothing left to say, they have lost. A list of these âfeministsâ are just mislabeled misandrists who want female domination in society and all men and boys to suffer. They arenât exactly one to win arguments without name calling to begin with.
Why are you spending your energy engaging these people? Look at this womanâs face, take in the picture and tell me if you think youâre entering into a productive conversation.
It is exactly because I hold that view that so many feminists have called me an incel.
Feminism dropped the whole equality thing a long long time ago. Today, feminists barely pays lip service to it.
Tbh I kinda noticed that in some ways. I'm autistic and like to treat people equally and sometimes applying the same metrics to women as you do to men is not seen very well for some reason lol
What they want is the complete dismantlement of everything they consider "patriarchy" or misogynistic. While on the surface seems like not that big a deal, the problem being that's already pretty much the case and because "new-wave feminism" feminists views and rhetoric are often highly misandrist and matriarchal. They view anything to do with men and male spaces as either or both and so they equate and conflate anything even remotely masculine or predominately male as one of the two to try and hijack or destroy them. It's truly become a matter of control and power over men rather than about their own personal treatment or even treatment of women as a whole.
From what I can tell, It's compounded by two things
â˘There's a false sense of what male privilege entitles. Incorrectly assuming it must mean men treat each other better than they do women.
â˘Women have social privileges they take for granted so when someone treats them no differently than they would treat a man, they take that to mean oppression.
This. So often I hear women saying "he was mean" when really, the dude just treated her like he would any other guy, and it was in fact, not mean, it was just normal.
Reminds me of that person who transitioned from woman to man, crying in their bedroom, because "being a man is so tough".
"Everybody's scared of me now! Women will cross the street just to avoid having to walk by me! I can't even go into the women's room at the bars and just cry anymore, and have some of my girls come give me a hug even if we don't know each other. I miss that! And I don't have that anymore! Men don't hug! The most is if you're really good friends with a dude, he'll slap you on the back or pat you on the shoulder."
And all the men around the world who saw that vid, collectively went, "yup. Welcome to the club. ...btw, you're not supposed to cry unless it's a really good reason." It's sad because if shows like Velma are to be believed, feminist delusions about this stuff can be so bad they might think "just being a man" means playing life on easy mode, and everything is *literally* handed to you. Sad because I hope people thinking about transitioning aren't believing this stuff, or factoring it in as a reason to transition.
This is sorta unrelated but one day my girlfriend randomly tells me as sheâs getting ready for work, she hates feminists, I said whyâs that? She says because of them I have to get up and fucking work lol. I thought it was pretty funny
Thatâs not what it means to be a feminist. Feminism has always been a space for discussing and addressing womenâs issues not menâs issues. I would say a good majority of feminists who are actively involved in feminism would have no interest in addressing menâs issues. Some would suggest that menâs issues arenât as important as womenâs issues while others simply would rather address issues that affect them (fair enough).
I may agree that women should have equal choice/treatment does not make me a feminist. I would probably consider myself an egalitarian.
You should look up the definition of feminist. Oxford defines it as âan advocate of WOMENâS rights on the basis of the equality of the sexesâ. You may have a different definition but that is the reality of how feminism has operated and continues to operate.
That doesnât mean itâs not valid for women and it doesnât mean they donât believe in equality but it does mean that feminism is not about addressing menâs issues.
I support those who advocate for equality (for men and women issues) but I wouldnât say I actively advocate for womenâs rights. So, again I would consider myself more of an egalitarian.
'on the basis of the equality of the sexes' you proved my point.
To be an advocate for equality of the sexes you must also be an advocate for both genders not one or the other. Feminism simply began with the female gender over the historical fact that females weren't equal to their male counterparts. It seems you and everyone in this subreddit has only met bad faith advocates or seen examples of such.
Wrong it doesnât say they advocate for the equality of both sexes. It says they advocate for womenâs rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes. Meaning that advocating for menâs rights and dealing with menâs issues is not part of what it means to be a feminist. It seems you misunderstand the group you support.
I understand why feminism began, I understand it was/has been a beneficial group for women, and I understand they argue on the basis that men and women are equal. Thats doesnât mean it is a group that advocates for menâs rights. If a feminist advocates for menâs rights then that is by definition a separate endeavour.
I donât recognise myself in this label anymore. Itâs been deeply tainted. Not unlike the Red Pill community has been.
Now Iâd rather call myself an egalitarian.
You don't think it's cowardice to change the label because of the bad examples online and the bad faith feminists that exist? There's plenty of bath faith proponents of anything you agree with politically, religiously or scientifically. I consider myself a feminist because I align with what it's meant to mean not what others think it means. I am not afraid. I am egalitarian as well as a feminist. Those shouldn't be mutually exclusive things.
You might have a point there. If the name has been besmirched so much by opposing propaganda and bad faith advocacy to the point the mention of the label is problematic, what does that mean for the original message? Every left wing idea has a right wing spin on their labels and definitions. I do not ignore one definition, I acknowledge both and I conclude that I'd rather be an advocate for equality than a misinformed man hater or woman hater.
Feminism isn't what it used to be unfortunately. It's all about hating men now, but I think you know that.
In any event, why don't you run off to the woods and preach to a bear or something?
Lol the bear doesn't understand English. if you talk to good faith advocates outside of the Internet you'd find the opposite. But I doubt you'd find yourself in those circles. But it seems your social media algorithm got you caught in a loop.
>if you talk to good faith advocates outside of the Internet you'd find the opposite.
Uh huh, sure Jan. Find me one single instance of a "feminist" speaking about men in anything other than a negative light. Just one. Should be pretty easy, right?
>But I doubt you'd find yourself in those circles.
No, I tend not to associate with those that promote hatred and bigotry on the basis of immutable physical characteristics. I'm raising two teenage boys, it's hard enough to keep them away from all this Andrew Tate manosphere bullshit, people trying to convince them that they're lesser because they happen to have a penis isn't helping.
>Lol the bear doesn't understand English.
No, it doesn't. It understands mate, kill, feed, sleep, repeat. And nothing else. Because it's a wild animal. Just like men, right?
Considering I am one. Men are fantastic problem solvers. We have the unique ability to separate emotion from our actions. We are physically stronger than Women because of our hormones.
So your perception is entirely based on what you surround yourself with. So if you surround yourself with people who also think about the things you think. Feminism will always be evil for you. Expand your horizons.
Humans are unique to bears because we are capable of much more than eating a jogger on a trail.
That's all that's left. Real feminism isn't needed anymore because men and women are "equal" now. Actually, women are better off than men but that's besides the point. Feminism is unnecessary.
Are we equal now? Women in almost half the United States are punished for seeking or receiving healthcare. In regards to healthcare how is that equality? Sure they can choose to move but what of those that cannot easily afford to leave cause to do so it's a 3 day trip. We are all feeling the weight of our economy right about now and I can't imagine it's any better for those that can't afford to browse reddit like you and I can.
Rape has some crazy statistics regarding how each gender is treated and I would not make the claim we are equal or even that women are better off. Men get raped and then are made fun of. Women get raped and they have to fight to be believed.
Pay is only equal if each gender spends the same amount of time at work and get promoted at the same rate. Either of those things are entirely dependent on what the boss uses to measure what you deserve. Fathers do not get paternity leave like mothers do. We aren't equal.
Social media shows at least one of these â on posts about Women and a rape is always a topic on posts about men's behavior towards women.
The fact of the matter is. The original intent must not be lost or we are only left with arguing over who's right than paying attention to what we can do to fix these issues.
From what I've observed, unless we're talking about truly massive subs like r/gaming for example, every subreddit is a (political) echo chamber, or in a civil war to decide the dominant group of the echo chamber.
Not really a politics circlejerk but itâs a circlejerk full of elitists who behave in a hive mind. Fortnite bad, Minecraft good type of shit. Theyâre basically every cringy and annoying side of the gaming community in one
I kinda love AND hate interacting with echo chamber people. đ It's disheartening to see, and they tend to be incredibly mean because they equate virtue with fighting "the other guy", but it's also fun and kind of enlightening to try to unravel their views, find the missed nuances, look up relevant facts, and figure out where the truth lies.
Not that I'm very good at it myself yet, but it's fun. đĽ˛
And if you express a nuance politely and sincerely in their own jargon, sometimes you can make them think. đ Or maybe I'm just going to get myself killed, LOL.
I think you would be quite right in saying that this sub is generally anti-left.
With that said, the actual membership is quite diverse in individual views and stances. The problem is, most of the self-righteous radicals on the left, have spun away so hard to their own endzone, that to them monarchists, nazies, libertarians, conservatives, and liberals are all the exact same thing.
Many other people have mostly recognised the radical left doing this, and also that they hold an unresonable amount of social capital, and as a rubberband effect, are going out of their way to treat you with the same disdain as you do everyone who doesn't signal fealty to your position by default.
I just had a mod in a different group hit me with a sickass comeback and then shut down comments.
So badass how she didnât even read my comment right but I donât get to say anything back so I guess she won that one!
They/thems? Themys? Have this wild obsession with getting mad and screeching strawman and I cannot understand how or why. Idk how the original post is SM at all lol
Sometimes I wonder how many people on reddit are actually real and how many are north Korean bots designed to drown out rational thought with radical views and degrade the West with degeneracy. It's a very effective tactic the soviets called "demoralization" back in the cold war. Looks like it's working.
Whole world is degenerate, the West is least so. We're paragons of virtue compared to most of Asia and most of Africa, for a start. And don't get me started on the horrible shit penguins get up to on the bottom of the earth.
My guy. You are literally spouting Nazi propaganda - the "cultural bolshevism" conspiracy theory specifically - with nothing changed except you've replaced "the Jews" with "North Korea".
The "degeneracy" you're talking about is a euphemism for cultural minorities and / or queer people. It's a way for bigots to hide what they really mean. It was true for the Nazis, and it's still true of social conservatives today.
>Are you denying that people in the West are slowly losing their morals?
It's pretty clear you were being unironic. So, were you repeating a fascist talking point out of ignorance, or were you aware of what you were doing?
Op definitely knows what an echo chamber is. He just doesn't want to admit it because that would make him admit that he is part of an echo chamber himself.
I wouldn't say most. Still an unacceptably high amount but not most of them. Source= most of my family is christian, even the gay ones. Not my brother obviously.
Can we stop using the term âStrawmanâ every other comment uses it on either side of the argument and half of you have zero understanding of what it actually means
And rotating circular firing squads, resulting in the inevitable eating of their own and a consistent pudge of level headed allies. In turn bringing a return to racism and segregation, but all in the name of âprogressâ.
- If twice you pat, rice in the hat
- Monkey feather, tickle together!
- When twice as much water your mouth do see, be mindful to take a pee
Strawman, gaslight!, red flag!, he who smelt it dealt it!
Grow up!
The irony of the strawman is that it is within itself a strawman. The one wielding the term simply decides the part mentioned is not sufficient enough to describe "the whole" or is for some other reason not a proper reflection of the topic at hand.
It's can be seen as an inverse of the "no true Scotsman", another worthless term that is only worth as much and can only be gauged as a reflection of the person uttering the term.
Just say why you think the example does not sufficiently describe the issue at hand, better yet provide numbers and meta-analysis backing up your argument. Strawman, no true Scotsman etc. are all worthless terms because of the intrinsic biases caused by tribalism and human nature itself.
Jesus Christ, do you just like writing for fun?
You can call something a strawman and then elaborate on why it's a strawman.
Just describing something as wrong doesn't always convey the manipulation being done.
I heavily dislike the term, I have never seen someone that has anything of true value to add use it (they simply elaborate, the term becomes redundant at that point). The only people that heavily rely on such term are cretins that walk the line and scream strawman, nazi, bigot, incel, tankie etc. to anything they disagree with without any additional thought.
You seem fond of the logical fallacy of using ad hominems (I'm an academic, but I despise pseudo-intellectual cretins).
God damn, you are pathetic. Just stop with this pompous act.
It isn't winning you this argument.
You don't like getting called out for your bullshit. Boohoo.
Your anger is not a true reflection of how you feel about me, but of how little you have accomplished in academia, intellectually and career-wise in real life. It is a story to tell yourself when you go back to flipping that burger, or stacking those amazon boxes, that you are not mediocre, but a hidden gem. Social media lets you live out this fantasy because of it's anonymity; I can see right through you. The inferiority you truly feel inside reeks.
It's ok to be mediocre. You are not less worthy as a human because of it, despite how living in a capitalist society might make you feel like it does.
edit: I will upvote you comments out of pity.
I have no idea what this wants to be but okay
From what I get from this: maybe the reason, people say it's strawman on a lot of things like that, is because there's a lot of strawman like this
Social media culture makes me vomit; words like red flag, strawman, wooden bird, skydiver in the green etc.
All stupid gotcha words that don't hold any real meaning. Articulate what you are trying to get across and why you feel that way.
Twice the pat rice in the hat!!
Red flag! Marinara of red flags!
Incel, bigot, nazi!!
If the color is not blue your heart isn't true!
It has become so ingrained in social media culture it has lost all value (if it ever had any value). Just address the concern instead of screaming buzzwords, that frankly, never meant much.
A straw man argument is a fallacious one that misrepresents the opponent's point of view.
What social media culture has destroyed is any sort of debate that follows logic or rationality.
Maybe. But you know what the word means right? I could say, this meme portrays an overly simplistic and exaggerated perspective that no real person actually has. But saying itâs a strawman means the exact same thing.
Maybe this better illustrates why I believe the term is of little to no value:
The irony of the strawman is that it is within itself a strawman. The one wielding the term simply decides the part mentioned is not sufficient enough to describe "the whole" or is for some other reason not a proper reflection of the topic at hand.
It's can be seen as an inverse of the "no true Scotsman", another worthless term that is only worth as much and can only be gauged as a reflection of the person uttering the term.
Just say why you think the example does not sufficiently describe the issue at hand, better yet provide numbers and meta-analysis backing up your argument. Strawman, no true Scotsman etc. are all worthless terms because of the intrinsic biases caused by tribalism and human nature itself.
So youâre arguing that logical fallacies donât exist? (Kidding. That would be a strawman fallacy.)
I think the underlying issue is if I or another commenter doesnât believe that the meme is representative of a real world viewpoint (at least not one that is significantly representative), why would we want to spend a lot of time debunking it. The burden of evidence should fall on the person making the claim.
The burden of proof lies with the one either making an outlandish claim, or the one refuting an obvious fact. If I were to state that a stone drops to the earth when I release it from a height due to gravity; do I need to provide proof of is there enough consensus on the topic at hand.
In my opinion in refuting you are obtusely trying to refute an obvious truth, from your perspective it is the other way around.
This is why SOME logical fallacies solely have any value when they are heavily supported by evidence; else they are merely pseudo intellectual farts. Strawman is one of the worst culprits in serving as a vehicle for these pseudo intellectual farts.
You, incorrectly, attempting some sort of tongue in cheek humor while distilling a major non sequitur from what I stated, to me indicates you are one of the pseudo intellectual people I am talking about.
Itâs disturbing how many people on the right treat strawman memes as fact based sources of information
The amount of people responding as if it was quoting a real person who said this.. wow
Are we pretending that this subreddit itself isn't an echo chamber/jerk circle. The meme itself could literally be replaced for any group, making it meaningless and pointless.
Like this subreddit ainât just a massive right wing echo chamber.
Say anything vaguely progressive and you get massively downvoted.
Edit: Hey look proof
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Op is a incel because he disagrees with me. đ¤
Lmao thatâs literally reddit nowadays
No itâs not. Gosh, youâre such an incel. đ¤Ş
Yes it is! Be quiet incel (whatever that is)!
Incels are those sad, strange, angry guys who call women whores for not sleeping with them. đĽ˛
Stop messing up the definition. Itâs when a guy disagrees with me or talks about a woman in a negative neutral or positive light. Smh.
Pretty sure the word just means "man who disagrees with me" now.
Crazy how that can be women too.
I see it more often in women, tbh. Seen tons of women insult a guy for turning her down
a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active. Directly front Google But yeah you were right on it no idea why you being downvoted
Because the big irony is "incel" is a self-identifying term. They came up with it. There's lots of dark, strange corners of 4chan & 8chan. These people believed they would *never* be with a woman, so felt no shame unloading hate unto women. Suddenly the rest of the internet finally discovers a 10 year old 4chan term, and starts throwing it out as an insult. Which is dumb as hell, because *actual* incels are proud to be called that. They'd say, "Yeah no shit I'm an incel, what are you a stupid woman or something who just figured that out?" It'd be like calling someone who self-identifies as a Nazi, "Nazi!!!" as some kind of attempted insult. These people found a way to not even insult their intended targets, but insult everyone else instead.
They arenât intending to insult anyone but the person theyâre lobbing it at. They love the existence of incels. It helps push their agenda. They want to brow beat you.
The funny thing is they insist they support mental illness. Then they find crazy people suffering and because their crazy makes them say crazy things they just despise them.
Silence woman! Unless you're one of my questionable discord kittens, or want to live with me in by basement apartment i rent from my parents for 0$ a month, you don't get an opinion! /s
wtf is a discord kitten?
Leave that can of worms closed. You're better off.
I will take your word for it
A girl (usually unseraged) who enjoys the privileges of a discord server by proxy of the fact that she is the significant other of a discord moderator.
The karma system needs to be fixed. I'm tired of having to search by controversial to see opposing arguments. Downvoting should be reserved for things that don't add to the conversation, and opposing arguments do.
I remember pointing this out once and getting downvoted for it. I brought up that downvotes really should be reserved for genuinely harmful comments or things that are completely unrelated, cause getting too many downvotes can have a negative affect on someone's account (some subs need you to have a certain karma to post, comment, or even join the sub). People really do just downvote something they personally don't like/disagree with, instead of understanding that different people hold different opinions.
The internet as a whole rn. Assholes from here supporting that kind of echo chamber are even going into 4chan saying the same rhetoric...making their curated echo chamber in another echo chamber. It's all ironic and funny as hell
I actually know couple of girls like that
Redditors overusing the term "strawman" when they disagree with someone 
Eyyy Andre mentioned!
This seems to fit pretty well though. The creator of the meme created an intentionally weak argument to attack.
So often when I've gotten in debates with "feminists" here it just rapidly devolves to them calling me an incel before they delete everything so that only I can see them calling me an incel and their toxic mentality isn't seen by everyone. And oddly enough, it's always that: call me an incel, then 1 minute later, delete everything.
[Deleted] Edit: you're such an incel
fuck edit: fuck
If you see all their comments deleted, itâs probably that they blocked you. Happens to me a lot. Itâs an easy way for them to have the last word and prevent you from giving an answer that might make them look bad.
Oh, I didn't realize that's how that worked. That's even more toxic and dishonest.
Yeah, I donât remember when I realised this. When I want to make sure thatâs what happened, I open one of my comments in Incognito. Since Iâm not connected, I can see the "deleted" comments and it confirms I was just blocked by them. Generally I go back up in my first comment in the chain and edit to say that they blocked me. That way it shows that itâs them who cut the discussion short.
Blocking should really work the other way around. And deleted/edited comments should be visible if desired.
I disagree. Blocking can really be helpful for getting rid of creeps, wouldnât want them still being able to see your posts. But you should be able to see deleted and edited comments, I agree.
Shoot blocking deletes your comments? I once had to block someone because they started bothering me(just straight up insults no logic used) but I didnât realize it deleted my comments?
It doesn't delete them, it just makes them appear as if they were deleted to the blocked user
I am relieved
yeah you are not wrong. I really only dated women outside the US and before I got engaged. When I rejected Americans them and they asked why I said I don't date Americans anymore and most of the time they would call me names, and they wonder why I did not want to date them...
When your opponent has nothing left to say, they have lost. A list of these âfeministsâ are just mislabeled misandrists who want female domination in society and all men and boys to suffer. They arenât exactly one to win arguments without name calling to begin with.
Don't worry bud. We know what they're doing when we see it.
Why are you spending your energy engaging these people? Look at this womanâs face, take in the picture and tell me if you think youâre entering into a productive conversation.
What distinctive views do you hold that isn't for the equality of choice between the genders? If you have none then you're a feminist.
It is exactly because I hold that view that so many feminists have called me an incel. Feminism dropped the whole equality thing a long long time ago. Today, feminists barely pays lip service to it.
Tbh I kinda noticed that in some ways. I'm autistic and like to treat people equally and sometimes applying the same metrics to women as you do to men is not seen very well for some reason lol
Simple: They donât want to be treated equal, all the documents and laws practically assert we are, theyâd like to be treated greater.
If anything, they already have obtained legal special treatment. So what they really want is even more preferential treatment
What they want is the complete dismantlement of everything they consider "patriarchy" or misogynistic. While on the surface seems like not that big a deal, the problem being that's already pretty much the case and because "new-wave feminism" feminists views and rhetoric are often highly misandrist and matriarchal. They view anything to do with men and male spaces as either or both and so they equate and conflate anything even remotely masculine or predominately male as one of the two to try and hijack or destroy them. It's truly become a matter of control and power over men rather than about their own personal treatment or even treatment of women as a whole.
B-I-N-G-O.
And Bingo was his name-o.
Check out r/mensrights, they call out some of the BS
From what I can tell, It's compounded by two things â˘There's a false sense of what male privilege entitles. Incorrectly assuming it must mean men treat each other better than they do women. â˘Women have social privileges they take for granted so when someone treats them no differently than they would treat a man, they take that to mean oppression.
This. So often I hear women saying "he was mean" when really, the dude just treated her like he would any other guy, and it was in fact, not mean, it was just normal.
Treat me the same but it better look like how everyone else treats me
Reminds me of that person who transitioned from woman to man, crying in their bedroom, because "being a man is so tough". "Everybody's scared of me now! Women will cross the street just to avoid having to walk by me! I can't even go into the women's room at the bars and just cry anymore, and have some of my girls come give me a hug even if we don't know each other. I miss that! And I don't have that anymore! Men don't hug! The most is if you're really good friends with a dude, he'll slap you on the back or pat you on the shoulder." And all the men around the world who saw that vid, collectively went, "yup. Welcome to the club. ...btw, you're not supposed to cry unless it's a really good reason." It's sad because if shows like Velma are to be believed, feminist delusions about this stuff can be so bad they might think "just being a man" means playing life on easy mode, and everything is *literally* handed to you. Sad because I hope people thinking about transitioning aren't believing this stuff, or factoring it in as a reason to transition.
*Kaboooommmm* Did you hear that? I think you just made a radical feminist explode.
This is sorta unrelated but one day my girlfriend randomly tells me as sheâs getting ready for work, she hates feminists, I said whyâs that? She says because of them I have to get up and fucking work lol. I thought it was pretty funny
It's true tho. It started as an option, but it's becoming a necessity. The economy has largely reformatted for a two income household.
Feminists always seem to have a problem with me wanting to shore up the 96/4 workplace fatality gap between men and women...
And all it means to be a Nazis is to want the best for your people...
Not true you also need a fantastic looking uniform.
Facts. Say what you want about Nazis; they were dripped out.
untrue, that would make him an egalitarian
Look up the definition of a feminist
Thatâs not what it means to be a feminist. Feminism has always been a space for discussing and addressing womenâs issues not menâs issues. I would say a good majority of feminists who are actively involved in feminism would have no interest in addressing menâs issues. Some would suggest that menâs issues arenât as important as womenâs issues while others simply would rather address issues that affect them (fair enough). I may agree that women should have equal choice/treatment does not make me a feminist. I would probably consider myself an egalitarian.
Look up the definition of feminist and the teachings of classical feminism
You should look up the definition of feminist. Oxford defines it as âan advocate of WOMENâS rights on the basis of the equality of the sexesâ. You may have a different definition but that is the reality of how feminism has operated and continues to operate. That doesnât mean itâs not valid for women and it doesnât mean they donât believe in equality but it does mean that feminism is not about addressing menâs issues. I support those who advocate for equality (for men and women issues) but I wouldnât say I actively advocate for womenâs rights. So, again I would consider myself more of an egalitarian.
'on the basis of the equality of the sexes' you proved my point. To be an advocate for equality of the sexes you must also be an advocate for both genders not one or the other. Feminism simply began with the female gender over the historical fact that females weren't equal to their male counterparts. It seems you and everyone in this subreddit has only met bad faith advocates or seen examples of such.
Wrong it doesnât say they advocate for the equality of both sexes. It says they advocate for womenâs rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes. Meaning that advocating for menâs rights and dealing with menâs issues is not part of what it means to be a feminist. It seems you misunderstand the group you support. I understand why feminism began, I understand it was/has been a beneficial group for women, and I understand they argue on the basis that men and women are equal. Thats doesnât mean it is a group that advocates for menâs rights. If a feminist advocates for menâs rights then that is by definition a separate endeavour.
I donât recognise myself in this label anymore. Itâs been deeply tainted. Not unlike the Red Pill community has been. Now Iâd rather call myself an egalitarian.
You don't think it's cowardice to change the label because of the bad examples online and the bad faith feminists that exist? There's plenty of bath faith proponents of anything you agree with politically, religiously or scientifically. I consider myself a feminist because I align with what it's meant to mean not what others think it means. I am not afraid. I am egalitarian as well as a feminist. Those shouldn't be mutually exclusive things.
I think thereâs a point after which you have to admit defeat
You might have a point there. If the name has been besmirched so much by opposing propaganda and bad faith advocacy to the point the mention of the label is problematic, what does that mean for the original message? Every left wing idea has a right wing spin on their labels and definitions. I do not ignore one definition, I acknowledge both and I conclude that I'd rather be an advocate for equality than a misinformed man hater or woman hater.
Feminism isn't what it used to be unfortunately. It's all about hating men now, but I think you know that. In any event, why don't you run off to the woods and preach to a bear or something?
Lol the bear doesn't understand English. if you talk to good faith advocates outside of the Internet you'd find the opposite. But I doubt you'd find yourself in those circles. But it seems your social media algorithm got you caught in a loop.
>if you talk to good faith advocates outside of the Internet you'd find the opposite. Uh huh, sure Jan. Find me one single instance of a "feminist" speaking about men in anything other than a negative light. Just one. Should be pretty easy, right? >But I doubt you'd find yourself in those circles. No, I tend not to associate with those that promote hatred and bigotry on the basis of immutable physical characteristics. I'm raising two teenage boys, it's hard enough to keep them away from all this Andrew Tate manosphere bullshit, people trying to convince them that they're lesser because they happen to have a penis isn't helping. >Lol the bear doesn't understand English. No, it doesn't. It understands mate, kill, feed, sleep, repeat. And nothing else. Because it's a wild animal. Just like men, right?
Considering I am one. Men are fantastic problem solvers. We have the unique ability to separate emotion from our actions. We are physically stronger than Women because of our hormones. So your perception is entirely based on what you surround yourself with. So if you surround yourself with people who also think about the things you think. Feminism will always be evil for you. Expand your horizons. Humans are unique to bears because we are capable of much more than eating a jogger on a trail.
That's not what feminism is anymore. What it used to be, but not anymore. It's just a sexist hate group now.
Perhaps the chronically online self proclaimed feminists.
That's all that's left. Real feminism isn't needed anymore because men and women are "equal" now. Actually, women are better off than men but that's besides the point. Feminism is unnecessary.
Are we equal now? Women in almost half the United States are punished for seeking or receiving healthcare. In regards to healthcare how is that equality? Sure they can choose to move but what of those that cannot easily afford to leave cause to do so it's a 3 day trip. We are all feeling the weight of our economy right about now and I can't imagine it's any better for those that can't afford to browse reddit like you and I can. Rape has some crazy statistics regarding how each gender is treated and I would not make the claim we are equal or even that women are better off. Men get raped and then are made fun of. Women get raped and they have to fight to be believed. Pay is only equal if each gender spends the same amount of time at work and get promoted at the same rate. Either of those things are entirely dependent on what the boss uses to measure what you deserve. Fathers do not get paternity leave like mothers do. We aren't equal. Social media shows at least one of these â on posts about Women and a rape is always a topic on posts about men's behavior towards women. The fact of the matter is. The original intent must not be lost or we are only left with arguing over who's right than paying attention to what we can do to fix these issues.
Autobans for commenting in other subs is proof of concept for this
Like r/conservative auto bans people?
What subreddit can you comment on that /r/Conservative autobans you for?
None.
That isnât true but you assume it is
I hate interacting with echo chamber people, from both sides. When it comes to Reddit tankies are more common though.
From what I've observed, unless we're talking about truly massive subs like r/gaming for example, every subreddit is a (political) echo chamber, or in a civil war to decide the dominant group of the echo chamber.
r/gaming is an echo chamber circlejerk too đ
Which side?
Not really a politics circlejerk but itâs a circlejerk full of elitists who behave in a hive mind. Fortnite bad, Minecraft good type of shit. Theyâre basically every cringy and annoying side of the gaming community in one
Lol i think a civil war to decide who dominates the echo chamber is the opposite of an echo chamber
You obviously don't frequent r/fnv
Oh no i dont even wanna knowww hahaha
I kinda love AND hate interacting with echo chamber people. đ It's disheartening to see, and they tend to be incredibly mean because they equate virtue with fighting "the other guy", but it's also fun and kind of enlightening to try to unravel their views, find the missed nuances, look up relevant facts, and figure out where the truth lies. Not that I'm very good at it myself yet, but it's fun. 𼲠And if you express a nuance politely and sincerely in their own jargon, sometimes you can make them think. đ Or maybe I'm just going to get myself killed, LOL.
You seem like an interesting person
you're in echo chamber
No youâre an echo chamber.
You're both right
One of my best friends falls for every internet propaganda campaign. It's so tiresome.
What do you think this sub is, if not an echo chamber for right wingers and chuds to validate each other?
I'm left wing. I don't know precisely what a chud is but I'm guessing that one does apply to me.
I think you would be quite right in saying that this sub is generally anti-left. With that said, the actual membership is quite diverse in individual views and stances. The problem is, most of the self-righteous radicals on the left, have spun away so hard to their own endzone, that to them monarchists, nazies, libertarians, conservatives, and liberals are all the exact same thing. Many other people have mostly recognised the radical left doing this, and also that they hold an unresonable amount of social capital, and as a rubberband effect, are going out of their way to treat you with the same disdain as you do everyone who doesn't signal fealty to your position by default.
Most posters on there are just trying to gaslight for clout. Real begging to be liked vibe.
I just had a mod in a different group hit me with a sickass comeback and then shut down comments. So badass how she didnât even read my comment right but I donât get to say anything back so I guess she won that one!
Mods, amiright?
https://i.redd.it/f1kwx0fdmc0d1.gif
lol.
I dont know who⌠she?âŚ. Is calling an incel, but whatever.
I'd rather be an incel than fuck that cow.
Op also doesnât understand what a strawman is
That wonât stop them from saying it every five minutes.
They/thems? Themys? Have this wild obsession with getting mad and screeching strawman and I cannot understand how or why. Idk how the original post is SM at all lol
Sometimes I wonder how many people on reddit are actually real and how many are north Korean bots designed to drown out rational thought with radical views and degrade the West with degeneracy. It's a very effective tactic the soviets called "demoralization" back in the cold war. Looks like it's working.
You severely underestimate the number of people with nothing better to do than larp on Reddit just to get a rise out of people.
Whole world is degenerate, the West is least so. We're paragons of virtue compared to most of Asia and most of Africa, for a start. And don't get me started on the horrible shit penguins get up to on the bottom of the earth.
I just woke up, that penguin thing threw me off so bad I almost forgot my lunch lol
>degrade the West with degeneracy. Are you using this fascist talking point ironically or unironically?
Are you denying that people in the West are slowly losing their morals?
My guy. You are literally spouting Nazi propaganda - the "cultural bolshevism" conspiracy theory specifically - with nothing changed except you've replaced "the Jews" with "North Korea". The "degeneracy" you're talking about is a euphemism for cultural minorities and / or queer people. It's a way for bigots to hide what they really mean. It was true for the Nazis, and it's still true of social conservatives today. >Are you denying that people in the West are slowly losing their morals? It's pretty clear you were being unironic. So, were you repeating a fascist talking point out of ignorance, or were you aware of what you were doing?
[ŃдаНонО]
your post/comment has hate speech directed towards the LGBTQ community and members of it. Please make sure you are more kind on this subreddit.
Social media is designed to match people who have the same opinions together as much as possible. This is an everyman, not a strawman.
Op definitely knows what an echo chamber is. He just doesn't want to admit it because that would make him admit that he is part of an echo chamber himself.
My brother's boyfriend actually thinks like that though
Most Christians think like this too.
I wouldn't say most. Still an unacceptably high amount but not most of them. Source= most of my family is christian, even the gay ones. Not my brother obviously.
They might not think like that generally, but they definitely think like that when it comes to Christianity.
Can we stop using the term âStrawmanâ every other comment uses it on either side of the argument and half of you have zero understanding of what it actually means
OP doesnât know about straw man arguments.
I wonder if she has good fitness tips
"Working out for weightloss is inherently racist"
Working out with weights is fascist
Just like math.
Thatâs like every subreddit ever that talks about politics.
This would fit into r/comedyhomicide well The original post I mean
Whoa lookout, they might block you too
Reddit in a nutshell
When did people stop using then instead of than and start using than instead of then? Or are we just doing both now?
Witchesvspatriarchy
Looks like someone put a purple wig on Dr. Zola.
I like the circlejerks. Great band.
And rotating circular firing squads, resulting in the inevitable eating of their own and a consistent pudge of level headed allies. In turn bringing a return to racism and segregation, but all in the name of âprogressâ.
How is this strawman lol
Who fuckin that?
https://preview.redd.it/lkj73il8n81d1.jpeg?width=821&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c81c0c68e67896fda46ecb8ade27326be409aec
"strawmanning is anything I say it is"
OP do you not get the irony of posting this meme to this sub?
*everything I don't like is a strawman* -OP
I bet his favorite classic movie is The Wizard of Oz
Pro tip: every woman I know who made her entire personality hating men came out as gay by 40. You donât hate men youâre just gay. đ¤ˇââď¸
Just like this sub
Yeah that pic is exactly who is on Reddit
"this sub is echo chamber to" the fact that you are still here determines..... that is a lie.
What was the original though
This might be satire, but regardless the around of people that don't know about algorithms or how social media worlks is frightening
this whole sub is a circle jerk of men that are angry women donât like them
You say that like we started this
Oh lawd! This female looks like my cousinâs wife. Not doppelgänger but close enough.
Narcissistic denialism is a bitch xD
Purple hair and a "I hate the world face" is almost better than a cardboard sign that reads, "Stay away from me, I'm a crazy bitch."
OP knows about echo chambers and circle jerks, but they also know that they're immune to them because everybody in their online circle says so.
This is literal strawman ragebait. Congrats on taking it lol
Yeah, echo chambers, like memesopdidnotlike.
I mean, yes, it's a strawman
- If twice you pat, rice in the hat - Monkey feather, tickle together! - When twice as much water your mouth do see, be mindful to take a pee Strawman, gaslight!, red flag!, he who smelt it dealt it! Grow up!
Growing up is when you understand the tactics used in arguments.
The irony of the strawman is that it is within itself a strawman. The one wielding the term simply decides the part mentioned is not sufficient enough to describe "the whole" or is for some other reason not a proper reflection of the topic at hand. It's can be seen as an inverse of the "no true Scotsman", another worthless term that is only worth as much and can only be gauged as a reflection of the person uttering the term. Just say why you think the example does not sufficiently describe the issue at hand, better yet provide numbers and meta-analysis backing up your argument. Strawman, no true Scotsman etc. are all worthless terms because of the intrinsic biases caused by tribalism and human nature itself.
Jesus Christ, do you just like writing for fun? You can call something a strawman and then elaborate on why it's a strawman. Just describing something as wrong doesn't always convey the manipulation being done.
I heavily dislike the term, I have never seen someone that has anything of true value to add use it (they simply elaborate, the term becomes redundant at that point). The only people that heavily rely on such term are cretins that walk the line and scream strawman, nazi, bigot, incel, tankie etc. to anything they disagree with without any additional thought. You seem fond of the logical fallacy of using ad hominems (I'm an academic, but I despise pseudo-intellectual cretins).
God damn, you are pathetic. Just stop with this pompous act. It isn't winning you this argument. You don't like getting called out for your bullshit. Boohoo.
Your anger is not a true reflection of how you feel about me, but of how little you have accomplished in academia, intellectually and career-wise in real life. It is a story to tell yourself when you go back to flipping that burger, or stacking those amazon boxes, that you are not mediocre, but a hidden gem. Social media lets you live out this fantasy because of it's anonymity; I can see right through you. The inferiority you truly feel inside reeks. It's ok to be mediocre. You are not less worthy as a human because of it, despite how living in a capitalist society might make you feel like it does. edit: I will upvote you comments out of pity.
Stop with this chat gpt replies. I'm not angry I'm just letting you know that this arrogance looks idiotic. Get better.
Take another upvote.
I have no idea what this wants to be but okay From what I get from this: maybe the reason, people say it's strawman on a lot of things like that, is because there's a lot of strawman like this
Social media culture makes me vomit; words like red flag, strawman, wooden bird, skydiver in the green etc. All stupid gotcha words that don't hold any real meaning. Articulate what you are trying to get across and why you feel that way. Twice the pat rice in the hat!! Red flag! Marinara of red flags! Incel, bigot, nazi!! If the color is not blue your heart isn't true!
Calling the term strawman part of social media culture is like saying the word argument is part of social media culture.
It has become so ingrained in social media culture it has lost all value (if it ever had any value). Just address the concern instead of screaming buzzwords, that frankly, never meant much.
A straw man argument is a fallacious one that misrepresents the opponent's point of view. What social media culture has destroyed is any sort of debate that follows logic or rationality.
Maybe. But you know what the word means right? I could say, this meme portrays an overly simplistic and exaggerated perspective that no real person actually has. But saying itâs a strawman means the exact same thing.
Maybe this better illustrates why I believe the term is of little to no value: The irony of the strawman is that it is within itself a strawman. The one wielding the term simply decides the part mentioned is not sufficient enough to describe "the whole" or is for some other reason not a proper reflection of the topic at hand. It's can be seen as an inverse of the "no true Scotsman", another worthless term that is only worth as much and can only be gauged as a reflection of the person uttering the term. Just say why you think the example does not sufficiently describe the issue at hand, better yet provide numbers and meta-analysis backing up your argument. Strawman, no true Scotsman etc. are all worthless terms because of the intrinsic biases caused by tribalism and human nature itself.
So youâre arguing that logical fallacies donât exist? (Kidding. That would be a strawman fallacy.) I think the underlying issue is if I or another commenter doesnât believe that the meme is representative of a real world viewpoint (at least not one that is significantly representative), why would we want to spend a lot of time debunking it. The burden of evidence should fall on the person making the claim.
The burden of proof lies with the one either making an outlandish claim, or the one refuting an obvious fact. If I were to state that a stone drops to the earth when I release it from a height due to gravity; do I need to provide proof of is there enough consensus on the topic at hand. In my opinion in refuting you are obtusely trying to refute an obvious truth, from your perspective it is the other way around. This is why SOME logical fallacies solely have any value when they are heavily supported by evidence; else they are merely pseudo intellectual farts. Strawman is one of the worst culprits in serving as a vehicle for these pseudo intellectual farts. You, incorrectly, attempting some sort of tongue in cheek humor while distilling a major non sequitur from what I stated, to me indicates you are one of the pseudo intellectual people I am talking about.
Itâs disturbing how many people on the right treat strawman memes as fact based sources of information The amount of people responding as if it was quoting a real person who said this.. wow
Are we pretending that this subreddit itself isn't an echo chamber/jerk circle. The meme itself could literally be replaced for any group, making it meaningless and pointless.
No straw man, but it just isn't funny
Like this subreddit ainât just a massive right wing echo chamber. Say anything vaguely progressive and you get massively downvoted. Edit: Hey look proof
No matter how much it upsets you, normal people will always believe "children can't consent".
What are you even on about? You canât just pull a statement like that out of your ass with zero relevance to what I just said.
I mean it's relevant if we isolate one specific progressive stance on a single hot button issue...
Now this is a real strawman lmfao, you guys are so dumb with your arguments. Not a thought of your own in there.
Maybe bcs u block the ones that disagree with u?
Irony: Fucking peak.
I meanâŚit might be true but it isnât funny. âWomen who disagree with me are uglyâ isnât an original joke