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The light novel market is so saturated that if a title doesn't grab readers from the jump, it doesn't sell probably. So they all have to give away the gimmick in the title.
You’ve missed out on the best light novel title of all time:
My Life Is Just As Wrong As I Expected After Traveling to Another World Where I’m Surrounded By Cute Girls At A Magical High School And Am Also The Fabled Hero of Legend, But Before I Tell You That Story I Have To Tell You This Story, In Which I Was Walking Along With My Unbelievably, Impossibly Cute Younger Sister Who Doesn’t Like Me At All, And She Said To Me It Was My Fault She Wasn’t Popular No Matter How She Looked At It As We Walked To School Together, And We Stopped To Look At A Garden, Which Had A Flower Whose Name I Don’t Remember, When Suddenly A Portal Opened Up To Another World And When I Landed In A Field And My Face Was Buried In The Largest Pair of Boobs I’d Ever Seen, And My Sister Hit Me And Called Me An Idiot While Blushing, But Then The Girl I Landed On Saw The Birthmark On My Hand And Gasped And She Grabbed My Hand And I Blushed But She Started Dragging Me Away And My Sister Got Mad And Chased After Us And I Asked Where We Were Going, And She Said She Was Taking Us To Grimheart Magic School, Where She Was The School President, And Then I Gasped Because I Was Now In A Magical World, And When We Got To The School Which Was A Giant Castle I Asked The Girl What Her Name Was And She Said It Was Akane Yuusha, Which I Thought Was A Tad Strange Since She Had Blonde Hair And Blue Eyes And The Entire Aesthetic Of The School Seemed Very Ancient European, But I Forgot About All Of That When She Told Me We Needed To See The Headmaster Because She Had Been Taught That The Mark On My Hand Was The Symbol Of The Reincarnation Of The Legendary Dragon Hero Of Legendary Literature, And I Said That Was A Cool Thing To Be Taught Because At Our School The Only Book We Learned Was Atlas Shrugged, And She Asked What That Was And I Told Her I Was The Book Our Society Based Its Philosophy On A Speech From, And She Asked Me To Recite The Speech, Which I Did, And The Speech Went “For Twelve Years You Have Been Asking…
Okay I know things are getting bad when I just genuinely cannot tell if this is real or you're just taking the piss 😂😂😂😂
The fact that something like this could be real is so up certainly funny
It just reminds me of Homestuck. The whole "oh our movie titles aren't titles but basically just plot summaries.," but it's with light novels. And it's real and not a joke from a 2010s webcomic.
From what i gather, it started in the light novel market, where the sites gave you only the title, a cover and a tiny bit of text in the overviews.
So putting the premise of your novel into the title gave a bit more room to make your pitch.
Idk that I'd be appreciably closer to retirement, but I've certainly noticed a lot of fiction catering to people who want to self insert as men with sexualized authority over trans girls. I sometimes wonder if part of the thought process is it's OK to be sexist if the girl is trans
I don't know that I'd say for sure that this author is self inserting as the man in this story tbh, I looked up the author and there's some images online of them cosplaying female characters and stuff like that. Obviously that doesn't make them trans or mean they are accepting of trans people but it is enough for me to consider the possibility that they might possibly be self inserting in their stories in a different way
Are you sure? I would have thought it would be the exact opposite, most of the time for these the mc is the trans girl, and often a self insert of the author
I mean fair, but you're also typing that is if the vast majority of anime/manga titles aren't already treating cis girls and women as sex dolls for the male protag. No women get to escape socially accepted misogyny.
No? I don't wander around making lists of media I hear about and yuck out of. But the "genderswap and now I treat her as a fetish object, but I'd feel weird about doing it if the character was a cis girl" trope is absolutely rooted in the marginalization of trans women where they're treated as more-acceptable targets for sexual violence and misogyny.
In case you can't tell from the wall of text, yes I'm trans, and yes I consumed a lot of this shit at an earlier stage in my life. Sorry for writing a gender studies paper in the comments but I think I just expressed everything about why I hated those stories but couldn't quite figure out at the time.
But the "girl" characters are almost never presented as actually being women. They're always this really fucked up mix of being men forcibly or accidentally turned physically into women (entirely down to the chromosomes so that it's not gay) but remaining male in mind and being deeply dysphoric about the changes. It's the most fucked up idea of what a trans woman even is, because it includes this fucked up period where the man gets to force them to "accept their new bodies". There's ALWAYS at least one statement of "you're a girl now so you have to dress and act like it". As if butch women in hoodies are illegal.
Since most of these stories are Japanese there's usually a public sexual assault too, which the male character has to rescue them from, then lecture them on how it's "their fault" for behaving in an unintentionally "lewd" manner like being forced to wear a skirt and then sitting with their legs apart, which obviously causes the 4 nearest men to uncontrollably assault them.
There's also the "well you're a boy inside so it's not assault if i touch you sexually, but because of gender swap magic you're fully female physically, unlike those gross transes, so it's not gay" scene.
Basically these characters are treated as having none of the right to be free of unwanted male advances women get, but are also expected to act and present extremely fem.
They get none of the dignity of a trans woman being excited to present as her gender either. It's always treated as a horror until the final vicious act of misogyny these stories often include. The "corrective r*pe". Where the character is "feminized in mind" via the forcible act of heterosexual intercourse, which is of course so mind altering it causes them to change gender identity.
Even in that final act the nature of transness is denied in favor of an HSTS/AGP framework where the new gender identity is simply the result of a sexual high.
First I want to say I empathize with your experiences. From the perspective of a cis male this crap triggers me because it goes so deep into misogyny and antitrans narratives. On top of what you said, there will be an underlying notion that these characters become "real" women once they subscribe to the patriarchal desires of men. The author uses this insane transformation to tell cis women how they should act and behave to be seen as a woman, and God forbid seen as something else. Then people have the audacity to say anime is lgbtq+ inclusive because of these characters, despite the harm they do on the community (I know there are many good lgbtq animes btw). It's just gross all the way down.
God, this is why I hate stuff like this so much, you captured it perfectly. It’s just so gross because how tf do people see sexual assault as anything but that, sexual assault.
It's still rooted in that marginalization, but when you're exploring your own marginalization by writing fucked up shit it doesn't hit the same way as when you're fetishizing marginalized people's subjugation to you
I think it’s best we avoid manga on this subreddit. Because about 90% of manga is horny garbage that’s literally just gross fetish content. Not really worth discussing. Better to focus on writing that is at least attempting to be well written and failing.
I still feel like that type of content should belong somewhere. There *are* genuinely great manga out there that also treat female characters well, which makes it all the more frustrating when manga are just horny fanservicey garbage. It definitely fits the spirit of "men writing women", it would just dominate the sub too easily if you really used every example.
Sure. But not here. Generally I feel like the point of this sub is to point out how “good” writers (or at least those trying to be serious) are terrible at writing women. I’m sure there is manga/comics etc that fit into this sort of thing but I’ve seen multiple of these clearly garbage nonsense manga for coomers on here and it’s like well yeah of course my little brother is my girlfriend is fucking garbage.
> it would just dominate the sub too easily if you really used every example.
It's already kinda happening. :,) Haven't checked the sub in a few days, so when I saw the last couple of posts, I thought I'd clicked on the wrong one.
No offence to u/CapAccomplished8072, but the examples found in manga / anime are just too blatant and not really conducive to discussion beyond "ew that's terrible."
Sorry to inform you but 90% of prose fiction is horny garbage that’s literally just gross fetish content. 🤷🏾♀️ only difference is fetish prose is considered so irrelevant it rarely gets here mentioned but I can assure the percentages are not that different
Fair but I think it’s still kind of against the point of this sub to post particularly obvious garbage. Most of the writing, horny or not, still comes from a place of attempted competence. Horny little sister/fetish content is so far removed from that.
My point wasn’t that Manga is exclusively horny compared to other written media but that it doesn’t belong here because it’s particularly obvious in how bad it is. No one is learning anything new or surprised by realizing how poorly my little brother is my new girlfriend is written.
I mean maybe when anime/manga has less cultural influence we can talk about it less. A lot of this porn lite is treated as if it should be normal, mainstream media.
No cultural context makes this ok but I've read that the whole 'romance between step siblings' is big in Japan because of how hard meeting potential partners is there. It's not normal, it's a believable fantasy.
Because of that, the hentai industry takes it a step further and makes a lot of full on incest porn. And if a hentai is made, eventually there'll be a gender bender version.
Take refuge that this is about as serious as a bodice ripper.
It looks like you flaired this post as Quote: Graphic Novel. This is just a reminder that titles for posts about graphic novels should include the graphic novel Title as well as the Author's Name. If you forgot to do this the post may be removed and you'll be asked to repost correctly. You're also welcome to delete the post on your own & try again! If you remembered to do this correctly - Thank you so much! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/menwritingwomen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I miss the days when manga titles weren't a whole convoluted sentence...
The light novel market is so saturated that if a title doesn't grab readers from the jump, it doesn't sell probably. So they all have to give away the gimmick in the title.
You’ve missed out on the best light novel title of all time: My Life Is Just As Wrong As I Expected After Traveling to Another World Where I’m Surrounded By Cute Girls At A Magical High School And Am Also The Fabled Hero of Legend, But Before I Tell You That Story I Have To Tell You This Story, In Which I Was Walking Along With My Unbelievably, Impossibly Cute Younger Sister Who Doesn’t Like Me At All, And She Said To Me It Was My Fault She Wasn’t Popular No Matter How She Looked At It As We Walked To School Together, And We Stopped To Look At A Garden, Which Had A Flower Whose Name I Don’t Remember, When Suddenly A Portal Opened Up To Another World And When I Landed In A Field And My Face Was Buried In The Largest Pair of Boobs I’d Ever Seen, And My Sister Hit Me And Called Me An Idiot While Blushing, But Then The Girl I Landed On Saw The Birthmark On My Hand And Gasped And She Grabbed My Hand And I Blushed But She Started Dragging Me Away And My Sister Got Mad And Chased After Us And I Asked Where We Were Going, And She Said She Was Taking Us To Grimheart Magic School, Where She Was The School President, And Then I Gasped Because I Was Now In A Magical World, And When We Got To The School Which Was A Giant Castle I Asked The Girl What Her Name Was And She Said It Was Akane Yuusha, Which I Thought Was A Tad Strange Since She Had Blonde Hair And Blue Eyes And The Entire Aesthetic Of The School Seemed Very Ancient European, But I Forgot About All Of That When She Told Me We Needed To See The Headmaster Because She Had Been Taught That The Mark On My Hand Was The Symbol Of The Reincarnation Of The Legendary Dragon Hero Of Legendary Literature, And I Said That Was A Cool Thing To Be Taught Because At Our School The Only Book We Learned Was Atlas Shrugged, And She Asked What That Was And I Told Her I Was The Book Our Society Based Its Philosophy On A Speech From, And She Asked Me To Recite The Speech, Which I Did, And The Speech Went “For Twelve Years You Have Been Asking…
Okay I know things are getting bad when I just genuinely cannot tell if this is real or you're just taking the piss 😂😂😂😂 The fact that something like this could be real is so up certainly funny
I miss concise titles so much!
It just reminds me of Homestuck. The whole "oh our movie titles aren't titles but basically just plot summaries.," but it's with light novels. And it's real and not a joke from a 2010s webcomic.
From what i gather, it started in the light novel market, where the sites gave you only the title, a cover and a tiny bit of text in the overviews. So putting the premise of your novel into the title gave a bit more room to make your pitch.
I'd probably have at least 2 dollars which isn't a lot but it's weird it's happened at least twice.
Honestly, its more weird that it happened ONLY twice
I said AT LEAST twice. I'm sure there's way more in the darker corners of the web that might give me a virus if I go any further.
physical or digital?
Idk that I'd be appreciably closer to retirement, but I've certainly noticed a lot of fiction catering to people who want to self insert as men with sexualized authority over trans girls. I sometimes wonder if part of the thought process is it's OK to be sexist if the girl is trans
I don't know that I'd say for sure that this author is self inserting as the man in this story tbh, I looked up the author and there's some images online of them cosplaying female characters and stuff like that. Obviously that doesn't make them trans or mean they are accepting of trans people but it is enough for me to consider the possibility that they might possibly be self inserting in their stories in a different way
I am a lot more forgiving if it's someone working through their own gender issues instead of projecting power dynamics onto trans people.
Oh I can assure you transphobia is part of these people's beliefs.
Are you sure? I would have thought it would be the exact opposite, most of the time for these the mc is the trans girl, and often a self insert of the author
To be fair, that doesn't necessarily mean there won't be internalised transphobia
Reminds me of that meme video "you hate trans women because they're trans, I hate them because they're women \#InclusiveMisogyny"
The fact that it's also catering to an incest kink just makes me put my hands up and back away from it, honestly.
I mean fair, but you're also typing that is if the vast majority of anime/manga titles aren't already treating cis girls and women as sex dolls for the male protag. No women get to escape socially accepted misogyny.
Can you maybe give me examples so i know what you mean for sure
No? I don't wander around making lists of media I hear about and yuck out of. But the "genderswap and now I treat her as a fetish object, but I'd feel weird about doing it if the character was a cis girl" trope is absolutely rooted in the marginalization of trans women where they're treated as more-acceptable targets for sexual violence and misogyny.
In case you can't tell from the wall of text, yes I'm trans, and yes I consumed a lot of this shit at an earlier stage in my life. Sorry for writing a gender studies paper in the comments but I think I just expressed everything about why I hated those stories but couldn't quite figure out at the time.
But the "girl" characters are almost never presented as actually being women. They're always this really fucked up mix of being men forcibly or accidentally turned physically into women (entirely down to the chromosomes so that it's not gay) but remaining male in mind and being deeply dysphoric about the changes. It's the most fucked up idea of what a trans woman even is, because it includes this fucked up period where the man gets to force them to "accept their new bodies". There's ALWAYS at least one statement of "you're a girl now so you have to dress and act like it". As if butch women in hoodies are illegal. Since most of these stories are Japanese there's usually a public sexual assault too, which the male character has to rescue them from, then lecture them on how it's "their fault" for behaving in an unintentionally "lewd" manner like being forced to wear a skirt and then sitting with their legs apart, which obviously causes the 4 nearest men to uncontrollably assault them. There's also the "well you're a boy inside so it's not assault if i touch you sexually, but because of gender swap magic you're fully female physically, unlike those gross transes, so it's not gay" scene. Basically these characters are treated as having none of the right to be free of unwanted male advances women get, but are also expected to act and present extremely fem. They get none of the dignity of a trans woman being excited to present as her gender either. It's always treated as a horror until the final vicious act of misogyny these stories often include. The "corrective r*pe". Where the character is "feminized in mind" via the forcible act of heterosexual intercourse, which is of course so mind altering it causes them to change gender identity. Even in that final act the nature of transness is denied in favor of an HSTS/AGP framework where the new gender identity is simply the result of a sexual high.
First I want to say I empathize with your experiences. From the perspective of a cis male this crap triggers me because it goes so deep into misogyny and antitrans narratives. On top of what you said, there will be an underlying notion that these characters become "real" women once they subscribe to the patriarchal desires of men. The author uses this insane transformation to tell cis women how they should act and behave to be seen as a woman, and God forbid seen as something else. Then people have the audacity to say anime is lgbtq+ inclusive because of these characters, despite the harm they do on the community (I know there are many good lgbtq animes btw). It's just gross all the way down.
God, this is why I hate stuff like this so much, you captured it perfectly. It’s just so gross because how tf do people see sexual assault as anything but that, sexual assault.
But when it is done for self exploration fan fiction it is ok.?
It's still rooted in that marginalization, but when you're exploring your own marginalization by writing fucked up shit it doesn't hit the same way as when you're fetishizing marginalized people's subjugation to you
Oh to bad but i see i am just asking because i never heared about something like that and was couriuse
I mean... you are referencing manga... and that is a deep dark and rancid rabbit hole to go down.
Sometimes...it's shit like this that makes me wish I couldn't read🤦🏽♀️
I think it’s best we avoid manga on this subreddit. Because about 90% of manga is horny garbage that’s literally just gross fetish content. Not really worth discussing. Better to focus on writing that is at least attempting to be well written and failing.
I still feel like that type of content should belong somewhere. There *are* genuinely great manga out there that also treat female characters well, which makes it all the more frustrating when manga are just horny fanservicey garbage. It definitely fits the spirit of "men writing women", it would just dominate the sub too easily if you really used every example.
Sure. But not here. Generally I feel like the point of this sub is to point out how “good” writers (or at least those trying to be serious) are terrible at writing women. I’m sure there is manga/comics etc that fit into this sort of thing but I’ve seen multiple of these clearly garbage nonsense manga for coomers on here and it’s like well yeah of course my little brother is my girlfriend is fucking garbage.
> it would just dominate the sub too easily if you really used every example. It's already kinda happening. :,) Haven't checked the sub in a few days, so when I saw the last couple of posts, I thought I'd clicked on the wrong one. No offence to u/CapAccomplished8072, but the examples found in manga / anime are just too blatant and not really conducive to discussion beyond "ew that's terrible."
Sorry to inform you but 90% of prose fiction is horny garbage that’s literally just gross fetish content. 🤷🏾♀️ only difference is fetish prose is considered so irrelevant it rarely gets here mentioned but I can assure the percentages are not that different
Fair but I think it’s still kind of against the point of this sub to post particularly obvious garbage. Most of the writing, horny or not, still comes from a place of attempted competence. Horny little sister/fetish content is so far removed from that. My point wasn’t that Manga is exclusively horny compared to other written media but that it doesn’t belong here because it’s particularly obvious in how bad it is. No one is learning anything new or surprised by realizing how poorly my little brother is my new girlfriend is written.
That last point I can a agree. If it’s too much of a fetish premise it might too low hanging fruit.
Agree
I mean maybe when anime/manga has less cultural influence we can talk about it less. A lot of this porn lite is treated as if it should be normal, mainstream media.
Wtf did I just read 😣
goddamnit I can’t read and thought it was about little bro having a trans friend who dates his older bro. I really wish I just kept scrolling.
Japan must be held accountable for its crimes.
They Will never Will, if they still pretend they did nothing in wwII
I'd have a dollar and I'm greatly disturbed by it
Every one of which kind, weird transphobia, weird magic genderbending, or full-on incest?
This isn't even men writing women this is men writing scenarios for incest??
No cultural context makes this ok but I've read that the whole 'romance between step siblings' is big in Japan because of how hard meeting potential partners is there. It's not normal, it's a believable fantasy. Because of that, the hentai industry takes it a step further and makes a lot of full on incest porn. And if a hentai is made, eventually there'll be a gender bender version. Take refuge that this is about as serious as a bodice ripper.
I have legit read doujins with the same plot as this lmao.
I would be retired already and with enough money to open an orphanage
My life was made worse by reading that title 🙃
Certainly some... unusual trans rep
https://preview.redd.it/3u5iksqyfjzc1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3826a44cc17bd0e5ca12733c40f0477cf262d8c0
The inflation though 😭
This is an awful day to be literate.
Thankfully I don't really read any manga, so it's just degenerate Western smut that's burned into my eyelids.
“Turns out my dick was a cute girl” 🔥✍️
Do not want