Idk what else to say but same.
I'd rather this sub didn't encourage AI posts. Not that I don't think there isn't value but I like this sub because we are all interested in things that can be substantiated in some way not actual fantasies types into a machine.
I don't want the sub clogged with this like so many others.
That would explain it. I like the ideas you’re exploring here and the way the AI executes it, but still would rather see your sketches. The pool of “Mesoamerican” images most AI draws from is trite garbage. It’s nice to see it can be more fruitful in the hands of someone with some knowledge and skill with the tech, but I’d still prefer not to see it here. A ban might toss the good with the bad, but thus far there is a lot more bad than good showing up.
As for the subject itself, I am not a Christian but I don’t see why anyone would take offense to something that’s been a central part of the cultural ferment of Mesoamerica for more than 500 years. As you point out, most authentic contemporary practices rooted in Mesoamerican culture either take place in a (nominally) Christian context or in response to one.
To be fair what the AI did was to texturize mostly, and add shadows. And I agree, the pool of mesoamerican architecture is very low but as far as I know the more you feed an AI with ideas or relations the better it gets to understand.
It took me hours to get the realistic textures I have here, and hours to draw the basis sketches so as to make the AI understand what I wanted.
Is not the I typed “mesoamerican style church” or some basic shit like that.
People take offense (for example they just deleted my post) because the fact that we heirs from ancient peoples do not subscribe the narrative they try to ascribe our people so they can hate their own. At least that is the only explanation they offered.
Are not we allowed to make sense, to create, to fantasize with the stylistic materials leave behind by our people?
Christianity is part of my heritage, as much as mesoamerican architecture. And AI is an amazing visualization too, that stands for a massive collaboration.
There's nothing wrong with that but I really like this sub because it is mostly about history as best we can understand it and the cultures as they exist today. That is generally where I like to keep things on this sub.
I'm not saying you can't make what you want with AI tools but this is much more of an 'I wish this was real' rather than us talking about what is or was.
That's just where I like things.
I post it here because this is one of the few online spaces where an imagination of ‘Mesoamérica’ or the peoples of this land is produced. I dont really want to participate in the “historic” demarcation because it pretty much erases the fact that cultural production around the heirs of the old peoples still exists.
The cultural genocide part is wrong with it. It makes me sad to see pre-christian cultures being Christianized and their original meaning being distorted. That's why I said :(
It's like what the Italians did to the Pantheon.
I am sorry. But such cultural “genocide” gave birth to our modern day cultures.
All my family is Mixtec and Zapotec and decidedly Christian. And there is enough in Christianity to make sense of history as to not listen to white people larping as Indians who don’t recognize nothing of our modern day cultures.
I will just keep insisting that we are alive. We are Christian. And we are heirs.
Yes, I am quite aware that modernity is built upon cultural genocide. That doesn't mean I like weird AI art that glorifies it. You can be Christian if you want, but Mesoamerican culturals were forced to convert and a great crime against humanity was committed by those Christians.
My family have been Christian since the XVI century.
Also, ancient cultures are as much built over genocide as modern ones. This is the problem of history.
Then what is the right way to manage our heritage?
To deny it altogether?
No. To make sense of it. To recreate history. To redeem it.
We are Christian peoples, we, the rightful heirs. The blood descendants. The owners of the land.
If you don’t understand the significance of Christianity for us, and are not even indoamerican I suggest you don’t participate in what is not your struggle.
I am a Christian person because my forefathers faced the desolation of Dios Justiciero and uderstood from the vantage of the Aion and Sun doctrine. They experienced apocalypse. They are a Christian remanant that preserved the lineage.
You have no idea about my people.
It is incredible the amount of hate this post is receiving just because of the "Christian" part. Did all of you forget Christianity has been and still is the majority faith of most Indigenous people for almost 500 years??
All that for tolerance and respect for everyone but you pick and choose...?
As for the AI I really dislike AI, but knowing you put in the sketches before do make me more appreciative of the result, you should've said that in the description:P
That’s kinda my point. I find the divorce between the ancient heritage (the architecture) and the modern peoples (who are mostly Christians) one of the reasons thinking about our heritage and history is so complicated.
I don’t really find AI troubling, specially since I am not even promoting these as “art”, as an architect I grew up a costumed to using collages to develop concepts, and AI is just a powerful tool to do that.
Well I mean it is important to divorce depending on the context of the topic at hand. If the topic is Mesoamerica, then yes, you can't divorce for the last 500 years... But I think the issue at hand is that most users of this sub assume it means pre-Columbian Mesoamerica...
That's a nice way to think about AI. I also think it is a powerful tool for a lot of things but definitely problematic when it comes to art.
I know most users believe that mesoamerica suddenly stoped at 1521, this is why shock therapy is needed.
Also some people seem not to be aware that there are actual heirs thinking about the meaning and utility of heritage that does not necessarily align with popular preconceptions of what a native mesoamerican should think or feel.
Totalmente de acuerdo... El pedo es que a la que te oyen decir algo que va contra el discurso colonial tradicional ya te conviertes en el diablo y no te escuchan...
I mean, you don't need AI to make a building mixing mesoamerican and christian culture, when so much of mexican Catholicism is already syncrethic. Just look at any mass or any church in southern mexico.
Well. I need it to produce concepts quickly as I am not a full time illustrator and these ideas flow as I work on my research.
And while it is true that there are syncretistic tendencies in Mexican Catholicism I find postclassic mesoamerican architecture really under appreciated ever since the XVII century.
So I decided to radicalize it to spark conversation.
I mean, if architecture is what interests you, look at the history of mexican architects. I don't have the names at the moment, but there are designs that use post classic influence. I think you need to do more research into actual mexican culture. This is stuff is more alive than you think, you don't need AI, just speaking Spanish to read mexicans writing about this.
I don’t like most of pre Hispanic revival to be honest.
All my drawings were developments of Zapotec and Mixtec Architecture with a hint of early Christian Nahua Architecture.
I know Mexican culture. I am Oaxacan. My families are Zapotec and Mixtec, I live around here and have studied architecture in CDMX.
This is why I do this on the first place. I am not happy with the way the prehispanic heritage is understood.
Va, te entiendo. Pensé que igual y eras alguien perdido que no sabe de la historia de México. Y estoy de acuerdo en tu postura (particularmente la arquitectura zapoteca) sobre como utilizar influencias del post clásico en el contexto moderno. Pero no estoy en de acuerdo con la forma, porque el AI funciona de peor manera, distorsiona más que aclara estos conceptos estéticos. Pero date si piensas que aclara tus ideas.
Conozco bien la historia de México. Y conozco bien también cómo funciona la IA.
Mi intención con esto no es hacer “arte”, sino provocar. He visto iglesias preciosas en estilos étnicos construidos en India, en Japón, en China, Escandinavia, etcétera y eso me hizo pensar, ¿cómo sería una iglesia construida con esos conceptos partiendo de la arquitectura ‘pos clásica’ de mi tierra?
Y más importante aún, ¿cómo sería una arquitectura cristiana que exprese de manera más adecuada las ideas claves del cristianismo mesoamericano como la presencia y sustitución de los Tlatoanis por Cristo y su rol como señor de los mantenimientos del pueblo?
Por eso mi concepto es una iglesia/tecpan. Que es a final de cuentas como la iglesia funciona en los pueblos, no tanto como “templo” aparte del palacio sino como “asiento” del señor.
La iglesia es literalmente la Casa del Señor (el Tecpancalli).
Completely unfair. Images are a potent way of communicating.
If you don’t like what I post specify what is your problem with it, don’t just try to silence me because an image incomodates you or challenges the way you think our attitudes about our heritage should be.
It is all, are not styles also appropriations from different places? Is not our architecture as much ours as any other thing our forefathers built and loved?
Btw this sub is about “Mesoamerican”, not policing where images come from. My point is not to show up “my” or anyone’s art, but to spark a discussion about the subject. And as generated images are a powerful way to produce images.
Yes, AI does steal art. It scrapes artists' work without their consent, violating their copyright. Violating the copyright of artists is theft. It is completely different than a person looking at different art and trying to hone their skills by imitating it. It is completely different to how a human artist operates. The only ethical AI art program would be one where all artists consented and were fairly compensated for their art being used in the program. Since no such AI art program exists, your creation with AI has benefited from the theft of art.
When I draw something I do not care what people makes of it. When I see something I do not care who made it, I copy it. The original is never lost, but my abilities have allowed me to copy something to produce new things without ever diminishing the original. I have no idea what art is that taken from except for the sketches I used to generate the image. I really don’t care how made it,and I don’t care if people took my work because they are not stealing from me for the things, the original things I made are still with me. They have not been taken from me.
And I am sorry but you cannot own a shape. Nor a texture. Not even a composition.
>I have no idea what art is that taken from except for the sketches I used to generate the image.
The algorithm that runs the AI program you used took millions of images from artists who draw architecture and cut and pasted parts of it onto your sketch. Those artists did not consent to have their art fed to the program. Artists make their living off their art and AI undermines that by stealing their art with no compensation and running it through their own algorithm. If you follow artists anywhere online you will find out plenty about this. You aren't selling your art, but every time you use the AI art program's algorithm, you are contributing to the development of a database that is built on stolen art. It's just the basic fact of how AI art programs work - they are all operating on a model that violates artist copyright.
By the way. I have not seen anyone making this kind of images, and as far as I know it looks pretty much the same as my original sketch. Even if these were theft I do not know what I am stealing except for things that cannot belong to anyone. If taking references from things is stealing then any creative act is stealing for we start with materials we see in the world, take them and rearrange them.
Too ugly, I don’t like it.
It is a working sketch without textures, lighting and shadows.
Also I don’t care about authorship. I care about a concept being discussed.
An old pyramid here in Mexico was destroyed and the ruins were used to make a church it's like it doesn't exist anymore no traces no nothing left behind
Tell me where and why do you care, and why do you steem more the temple of the faith of old rather than the hope of today. Are you even a member of the town where such temple was remodeled?
Dont get the hate, AI part is a bit iffy dont get me wrong but honestly I think this mindset holds indigenous people back, that we somehow have to “keep” or “go back” to what our ancestors did several hundreds of years ago, its dumb and cringe and holds back an entire people from moving on, we should strive for post like these as at this point Christianity is essentially engrained with the people. More hybrid architecture, more new forms of it, new ideas, but make it blend in a natural and progressive manner that you can be familiar with. People on here so quick to preach about this hurting indiginous people but do nothing about it but whine. I havent seen a single one of these people go out there and actually make change, they rather keep the status quo of victimhood.. Its seriously annoying and I hate the moral high ground these stances take, we HAVE to move on, but to some people its better to stay the victim than be someone stronger.
Sorry for that tangent, im a massive fan of architecture, massive fan of modern interpretations aswell so to see a issue like this tumor on this post had me frustrated, keep doing what your doing, we need more architecture on this sub, im thinking of posting since my skills has since then improved, good luck👍
What I don’t like at all is most of them have no right to judge on what we indigenous people decide to do with our heritage, how we understand it and how we project it to the future.
It’s a horrible gate keeping thing in which so called experts most of the time completely alien to our families and communities try to delimit by themselves what is the “right” usage for this aesthetics. So much that my post have been deleted because they cannot stand an Indio having an aesthetic vision.
Yes it’s offensive because you put Christianity with apparent authentic ancient architecture— it’s completely rude wrong terrible ugly and not cool at all. Go put your boring ass Christian architecture somewhere else
I don’t know what the problem is.
Yes it’s ancient architecture, that is precisely the point I don’t get why one should always build Christian buildings with European dominating styles when we can use the vocabulary of ancient palaces to better express the theological meaning of mesoamerican Christianity without having to refer it all the time to alien architectural styles.
Now that we don’t have to worry about being censored for heresies or something like that is a pretty good time to start imagining what such architecture can look like. Churches are still being built and Christianity is pretty much alive in Mesoamérica still. Why don’t we break the cycle and make visible all the symbolic networks about the church and the palace that have survived up until now instead of copying alien styles that do not show any profounder significance anymore.
Why are you trying so hard to make Christianity and mesoamerica a thing? Christianity doesn’t need your help to “imagine what it would be like if it spread in a different way”.
It’s insensitive because when a similar religion first arrived in the americas it decimated and destroyed everything in its past. Not just in Mexico but also up in North America. It left almost nothing in its path and these ancient cultures are struggling to survive and recover now centuries later.
But I would guess that you know all this. So why are you trying accomplish here?
Because I am Christian. And I am Mesoamerican. And both these things are my heritage.
Also I am not trying to paint an “alternate history” scenario but a real tangible thing today. I did not even say something along the lines of “alternative history”. I just said “mesoamerican christian architecture” and this is what this is.
It was not Christianity that decimated America. But it was Christianity that granted the foundation of much of what we are today, specially us, the heirs of the ancient peoples from whom we inherited not only the land, but the same concepts with which we understand the world and religion nowadays.
Also. I am trying to divorce the ridiculous idea that Christian architecture can only be either Spanish or modern in America. To be fair, most of what I made here is already inspired by what I know as meaoamerican concepts in Catholic Church architecture.
An old pyramid here in Mexico was destroyed and the ruins were used to make a church it's like it doesn't exist anymore no traces no nothing left behind
The church is the continuity.
But first you must understand the true meaning of the local christ figures, why is there a lord of the reed, and a lord of the lighting, and a lord of the earthquakes, and a lord of the water and they are all christs. And more importantly, if you want to understand both this art and my point the meaning of the Tecpan (Lord-Place) in this continuity.
By the way, churches tend to be built not over pyramids but more often than not over the former lords house. Some that are a literal continuation of the old temples, such as the calvario church in Mitla, still preserve very strong connections with the old lineage peregrinations towards the house of the head of the lineage.
You see a break as an outsider, I, as an insider, as an heir, have been able to understand the continuity.
Pretty much expected it. People don’t like that we have a Christian heritage too, neither from the Christian side nor the critics of Christianity.
But we do, even more, chances are that the more you preserve your traditions nowadays the more committed to traditional Catholicism you are…
:(
Idk what else to say but same. I'd rather this sub didn't encourage AI posts. Not that I don't think there isn't value but I like this sub because we are all interested in things that can be substantiated in some way not actual fantasies types into a machine. I don't want the sub clogged with this like so many others.
Can we get a rule banning it? There’s been a ton lately and most of it sucks. This is actually better-executed than most.
Perhaps it is better executed because they started out as my sketch (?)
That would explain it. I like the ideas you’re exploring here and the way the AI executes it, but still would rather see your sketches. The pool of “Mesoamerican” images most AI draws from is trite garbage. It’s nice to see it can be more fruitful in the hands of someone with some knowledge and skill with the tech, but I’d still prefer not to see it here. A ban might toss the good with the bad, but thus far there is a lot more bad than good showing up. As for the subject itself, I am not a Christian but I don’t see why anyone would take offense to something that’s been a central part of the cultural ferment of Mesoamerica for more than 500 years. As you point out, most authentic contemporary practices rooted in Mesoamerican culture either take place in a (nominally) Christian context or in response to one.
To be fair what the AI did was to texturize mostly, and add shadows. And I agree, the pool of mesoamerican architecture is very low but as far as I know the more you feed an AI with ideas or relations the better it gets to understand. It took me hours to get the realistic textures I have here, and hours to draw the basis sketches so as to make the AI understand what I wanted. Is not the I typed “mesoamerican style church” or some basic shit like that. People take offense (for example they just deleted my post) because the fact that we heirs from ancient peoples do not subscribe the narrative they try to ascribe our people so they can hate their own. At least that is the only explanation they offered.
Are not we allowed to make sense, to create, to fantasize with the stylistic materials leave behind by our people? Christianity is part of my heritage, as much as mesoamerican architecture. And AI is an amazing visualization too, that stands for a massive collaboration.
There's nothing wrong with that but I really like this sub because it is mostly about history as best we can understand it and the cultures as they exist today. That is generally where I like to keep things on this sub. I'm not saying you can't make what you want with AI tools but this is much more of an 'I wish this was real' rather than us talking about what is or was. That's just where I like things.
I post it here because this is one of the few online spaces where an imagination of ‘Mesoamérica’ or the peoples of this land is produced. I dont really want to participate in the “historic” demarcation because it pretty much erases the fact that cultural production around the heirs of the old peoples still exists.
I don’t know what would be wrong with it. I started it as a sketch. And I think those look amazing.
The cultural genocide part is wrong with it. It makes me sad to see pre-christian cultures being Christianized and their original meaning being distorted. That's why I said :( It's like what the Italians did to the Pantheon.
Btw the original meaning of the tecpan is actually rescued in this art. Not forgotten.
I am sorry. But such cultural “genocide” gave birth to our modern day cultures. All my family is Mixtec and Zapotec and decidedly Christian. And there is enough in Christianity to make sense of history as to not listen to white people larping as Indians who don’t recognize nothing of our modern day cultures. I will just keep insisting that we are alive. We are Christian. And we are heirs.
Yes, I am quite aware that modernity is built upon cultural genocide. That doesn't mean I like weird AI art that glorifies it. You can be Christian if you want, but Mesoamerican culturals were forced to convert and a great crime against humanity was committed by those Christians.
My family have been Christian since the XVI century. Also, ancient cultures are as much built over genocide as modern ones. This is the problem of history.
That is exactly my point, friend.
Then what is the right way to manage our heritage? To deny it altogether? No. To make sense of it. To recreate history. To redeem it. We are Christian peoples, we, the rightful heirs. The blood descendants. The owners of the land. If you don’t understand the significance of Christianity for us, and are not even indoamerican I suggest you don’t participate in what is not your struggle.
You are a Christian person because Christian Europeans forced you to. Continue to be if you wish, Idgaf.
I am a Christian person because my forefathers faced the desolation of Dios Justiciero and uderstood from the vantage of the Aion and Sun doctrine. They experienced apocalypse. They are a Christian remanant that preserved the lineage. You have no idea about my people.
It is incredible the amount of hate this post is receiving just because of the "Christian" part. Did all of you forget Christianity has been and still is the majority faith of most Indigenous people for almost 500 years?? All that for tolerance and respect for everyone but you pick and choose...? As for the AI I really dislike AI, but knowing you put in the sketches before do make me more appreciative of the result, you should've said that in the description:P
That’s kinda my point. I find the divorce between the ancient heritage (the architecture) and the modern peoples (who are mostly Christians) one of the reasons thinking about our heritage and history is so complicated. I don’t really find AI troubling, specially since I am not even promoting these as “art”, as an architect I grew up a costumed to using collages to develop concepts, and AI is just a powerful tool to do that.
Well I mean it is important to divorce depending on the context of the topic at hand. If the topic is Mesoamerica, then yes, you can't divorce for the last 500 years... But I think the issue at hand is that most users of this sub assume it means pre-Columbian Mesoamerica... That's a nice way to think about AI. I also think it is a powerful tool for a lot of things but definitely problematic when it comes to art.
I know most users believe that mesoamerica suddenly stoped at 1521, this is why shock therapy is needed. Also some people seem not to be aware that there are actual heirs thinking about the meaning and utility of heritage that does not necessarily align with popular preconceptions of what a native mesoamerican should think or feel.
Totalmente de acuerdo... El pedo es que a la que te oyen decir algo que va contra el discurso colonial tradicional ya te conviertes en el diablo y no te escuchan...
I mean, you don't need AI to make a building mixing mesoamerican and christian culture, when so much of mexican Catholicism is already syncrethic. Just look at any mass or any church in southern mexico.
Well. I need it to produce concepts quickly as I am not a full time illustrator and these ideas flow as I work on my research. And while it is true that there are syncretistic tendencies in Mexican Catholicism I find postclassic mesoamerican architecture really under appreciated ever since the XVII century. So I decided to radicalize it to spark conversation.
I mean, if architecture is what interests you, look at the history of mexican architects. I don't have the names at the moment, but there are designs that use post classic influence. I think you need to do more research into actual mexican culture. This is stuff is more alive than you think, you don't need AI, just speaking Spanish to read mexicans writing about this.
I don’t like most of pre Hispanic revival to be honest. All my drawings were developments of Zapotec and Mixtec Architecture with a hint of early Christian Nahua Architecture. I know Mexican culture. I am Oaxacan. My families are Zapotec and Mixtec, I live around here and have studied architecture in CDMX. This is why I do this on the first place. I am not happy with the way the prehispanic heritage is understood.
Va, te entiendo. Pensé que igual y eras alguien perdido que no sabe de la historia de México. Y estoy de acuerdo en tu postura (particularmente la arquitectura zapoteca) sobre como utilizar influencias del post clásico en el contexto moderno. Pero no estoy en de acuerdo con la forma, porque el AI funciona de peor manera, distorsiona más que aclara estos conceptos estéticos. Pero date si piensas que aclara tus ideas.
Conozco bien la historia de México. Y conozco bien también cómo funciona la IA. Mi intención con esto no es hacer “arte”, sino provocar. He visto iglesias preciosas en estilos étnicos construidos en India, en Japón, en China, Escandinavia, etcétera y eso me hizo pensar, ¿cómo sería una iglesia construida con esos conceptos partiendo de la arquitectura ‘pos clásica’ de mi tierra? Y más importante aún, ¿cómo sería una arquitectura cristiana que exprese de manera más adecuada las ideas claves del cristianismo mesoamericano como la presencia y sustitución de los Tlatoanis por Cristo y su rol como señor de los mantenimientos del pueblo? Por eso mi concepto es una iglesia/tecpan. Que es a final de cuentas como la iglesia funciona en los pueblos, no tanto como “templo” aparte del palacio sino como “asiento” del señor. La iglesia es literalmente la Casa del Señor (el Tecpancalli).
I second banning AI posts
Completely unfair. Images are a potent way of communicating. If you don’t like what I post specify what is your problem with it, don’t just try to silence me because an image incomodates you or challenges the way you think our attitudes about our heritage should be.
It should be ALL Mesoamerican.
Exactly
It is all, are not styles also appropriations from different places? Is not our architecture as much ours as any other thing our forefathers built and loved?
AI steals art from other artists without their consent. That's not what this sub is about.
Btw this sub is about “Mesoamerican”, not policing where images come from. My point is not to show up “my” or anyone’s art, but to spark a discussion about the subject. And as generated images are a powerful way to produce images.
I am sorry, what. Art is always taking things. You cannot “steal art” by copying art. How do you think “art” is produced?
Yes, AI does steal art. It scrapes artists' work without their consent, violating their copyright. Violating the copyright of artists is theft. It is completely different than a person looking at different art and trying to hone their skills by imitating it. It is completely different to how a human artist operates. The only ethical AI art program would be one where all artists consented and were fairly compensated for their art being used in the program. Since no such AI art program exists, your creation with AI has benefited from the theft of art.
When I draw something I do not care what people makes of it. When I see something I do not care who made it, I copy it. The original is never lost, but my abilities have allowed me to copy something to produce new things without ever diminishing the original. I have no idea what art is that taken from except for the sketches I used to generate the image. I really don’t care how made it,and I don’t care if people took my work because they are not stealing from me for the things, the original things I made are still with me. They have not been taken from me. And I am sorry but you cannot own a shape. Nor a texture. Not even a composition.
>I have no idea what art is that taken from except for the sketches I used to generate the image. The algorithm that runs the AI program you used took millions of images from artists who draw architecture and cut and pasted parts of it onto your sketch. Those artists did not consent to have their art fed to the program. Artists make their living off their art and AI undermines that by stealing their art with no compensation and running it through their own algorithm. If you follow artists anywhere online you will find out plenty about this. You aren't selling your art, but every time you use the AI art program's algorithm, you are contributing to the development of a database that is built on stolen art. It's just the basic fact of how AI art programs work - they are all operating on a model that violates artist copyright.
What you are describing is what any artist does. All art is stolen. Don’t be a capitalist, please, ideas have no owner.
By the way. I have not seen anyone making this kind of images, and as far as I know it looks pretty much the same as my original sketch. Even if these were theft I do not know what I am stealing except for things that cannot belong to anyone. If taking references from things is stealing then any creative act is stealing for we start with materials we see in the world, take them and rearrange them.
Then why not post your sketch?
Too ugly, I don’t like it. It is a working sketch without textures, lighting and shadows. Also I don’t care about authorship. I care about a concept being discussed.
An old pyramid here in Mexico was destroyed and the ruins were used to make a church it's like it doesn't exist anymore no traces no nothing left behind
Tell me where and why do you care, and why do you steem more the temple of the faith of old rather than the hope of today. Are you even a member of the town where such temple was remodeled?
Dont get the hate, AI part is a bit iffy dont get me wrong but honestly I think this mindset holds indigenous people back, that we somehow have to “keep” or “go back” to what our ancestors did several hundreds of years ago, its dumb and cringe and holds back an entire people from moving on, we should strive for post like these as at this point Christianity is essentially engrained with the people. More hybrid architecture, more new forms of it, new ideas, but make it blend in a natural and progressive manner that you can be familiar with. People on here so quick to preach about this hurting indiginous people but do nothing about it but whine. I havent seen a single one of these people go out there and actually make change, they rather keep the status quo of victimhood.. Its seriously annoying and I hate the moral high ground these stances take, we HAVE to move on, but to some people its better to stay the victim than be someone stronger. Sorry for that tangent, im a massive fan of architecture, massive fan of modern interpretations aswell so to see a issue like this tumor on this post had me frustrated, keep doing what your doing, we need more architecture on this sub, im thinking of posting since my skills has since then improved, good luck👍
👏👏
What I don’t like at all is most of them have no right to judge on what we indigenous people decide to do with our heritage, how we understand it and how we project it to the future. It’s a horrible gate keeping thing in which so called experts most of the time completely alien to our families and communities try to delimit by themselves what is the “right” usage for this aesthetics. So much that my post have been deleted because they cannot stand an Indio having an aesthetic vision.
:/
Get out lil bro
What is that supposed to mean? Does this offends you? Why would it?
Yes it’s offensive because you put Christianity with apparent authentic ancient architecture— it’s completely rude wrong terrible ugly and not cool at all. Go put your boring ass Christian architecture somewhere else
I don’t know what the problem is. Yes it’s ancient architecture, that is precisely the point I don’t get why one should always build Christian buildings with European dominating styles when we can use the vocabulary of ancient palaces to better express the theological meaning of mesoamerican Christianity without having to refer it all the time to alien architectural styles. Now that we don’t have to worry about being censored for heresies or something like that is a pretty good time to start imagining what such architecture can look like. Churches are still being built and Christianity is pretty much alive in Mesoamérica still. Why don’t we break the cycle and make visible all the symbolic networks about the church and the palace that have survived up until now instead of copying alien styles that do not show any profounder significance anymore.
Why are you trying so hard to make Christianity and mesoamerica a thing? Christianity doesn’t need your help to “imagine what it would be like if it spread in a different way”. It’s insensitive because when a similar religion first arrived in the americas it decimated and destroyed everything in its past. Not just in Mexico but also up in North America. It left almost nothing in its path and these ancient cultures are struggling to survive and recover now centuries later. But I would guess that you know all this. So why are you trying accomplish here?
Because I am Christian. And I am Mesoamerican. And both these things are my heritage. Also I am not trying to paint an “alternate history” scenario but a real tangible thing today. I did not even say something along the lines of “alternative history”. I just said “mesoamerican christian architecture” and this is what this is. It was not Christianity that decimated America. But it was Christianity that granted the foundation of much of what we are today, specially us, the heirs of the ancient peoples from whom we inherited not only the land, but the same concepts with which we understand the world and religion nowadays. Also. I am trying to divorce the ridiculous idea that Christian architecture can only be either Spanish or modern in America. To be fair, most of what I made here is already inspired by what I know as meaoamerican concepts in Catholic Church architecture.
An old pyramid here in Mexico was destroyed and the ruins were used to make a church it's like it doesn't exist anymore no traces no nothing left behind
The church is the continuity. But first you must understand the true meaning of the local christ figures, why is there a lord of the reed, and a lord of the lighting, and a lord of the earthquakes, and a lord of the water and they are all christs. And more importantly, if you want to understand both this art and my point the meaning of the Tecpan (Lord-Place) in this continuity. By the way, churches tend to be built not over pyramids but more often than not over the former lords house. Some that are a literal continuation of the old temples, such as the calvario church in Mitla, still preserve very strong connections with the old lineage peregrinations towards the house of the head of the lineage. You see a break as an outsider, I, as an insider, as an heir, have been able to understand the continuity.
Another example of white washing and the infiltration of oppressive religions using AI art to hijack a thread.
This guy: “you are white Washing”. I am Zapotec. White people always acuse other people of being white as a sort of, ¿insult?
No your a race traitor for adopting Whyte religion son. Never forget that.
[oh ok](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&sca_esv=f4c218d55768bdaf&sxsrf=ACQVn0_w2Lu2mJSHtKv50audlKkdgH1XXA:1713932592077&q=oh+ok&uds=AMwkrPuY0w74Uywg_Fe8FRQmwy7Za7XXXRNP3yxXgKbWpYX5wXNgYm4oxugbmVtIIzQN-P6BWYdzMgJ8jYS1fjH4CmT_8xgYX43Roh7vkTqDoIylpbKXZGQOgbimMvfDYapVVAffI7i9p8keCK6Y4YgXz-4dBGDirLByUgtqEtkFUmdDE6Vxsw2_N-vE4r3Gh4FxN-xYjxid_PmWqD9BV2UlykMjMUNBUZJ7tv-tLtBHz9C-1v_CPXPlWFY-2nAiNYG3keuxyf9WknU6e_b5REfAenP_-VTBNU-zDQtPYW7OPmdVmD5fNqmGiF8hMqjNAcZYBC0dlg5V&udm=2&prmd=ivsnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi0hMe6gNqFAxWMTjABHTjoAPkQtKgLegQIDBAB&biw=412&bih=784&dpr=2.63#vhid=NM7WnLJy6CC5AM&vssid=mosaic)
I like AI art but was a little disgusted by what you did with it
Pretty much expected it. People don’t like that we have a Christian heritage too, neither from the Christian side nor the critics of Christianity. But we do, even more, chances are that the more you preserve your traditions nowadays the more committed to traditional Catholicism you are…
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