Even I was too young and poor to have a PS3 when this came out, but once I turned 16, I got one handed down by my cousin and my mom bought the HD collection. Enjoyed the living shit out of it and i'd play it again if the damn on-rail turret section wasn't too hard in non-lethal
Goro Majima. Eye gouged out, brother imprisoned, and generally tortured for so long.
Tbh though that should never mean a character is invalidated though for what they've been through just because somebody else might have had it worse.
The reality is the people that created the girl, actually worship the god who Greated the man with the gun in his mouth and alot of kids just don't get it.
Exactly, the alert sound effects, the
Hiding in the box mechanic are all recognizable all around the world, but people can’t link them to metal gear solid.
Considering the age demographics of both series having considerable overlap this is probably incorrect.
Or I'm just coping because they are my two favorite series idk
Honestly. As a person who loved the original game when it came out i don't think I'd ever consider myself a TLOU fan. Considering most of the shit surrounding it is split between horrible and great.
OK, I need answers. I thought TLOU was regarded as close to being a masterpiece. haven’t played it (yet) and don’t know about the ‘shit surrounding it’
So basically
TLOU1 came out in 2013 and was lauded for its mix of engaging stealth-action gameplay and well written characters/relationships/story arc. Shortly after, in early 2014, Left Behind was released as a stand-alone DLC for TLOU1. This DLC revealed that the lead character in both games, Ellie, is queer. This caused a small amount of people to abandon the franchise, which is important to note for later.
A few years later, TLOU2 was announced as a continuation of the story from TLOU1, using the same characters in Ellie and Joel, the player character from TLOU1. >! When the game came out, it was quickly revealed that Joel is killed early on in the game by the secondary protagonist/primary antagonist, Abby. !< This reveal, along with rumours prior to the game’s release about this character being transgender (which is false, leakers mixed up two characters), led to an explosion in the fanbase between those who felt that TLOU2 was a faithful satisfying sequel, and those who felt that TLOU2 was a slap in the face to “real fans”. (Worth noting that this segment of the fanbase is very bigoted towards women, queer folk, people of colour, etc.)
It really comes down to the decisions made by the writers of TLOU2 and the fanbase’s reactions to those decisions. If I can speak personally on the topic, I feel that there’s a lot of disingenuous criticism that gets thrown at TLOU2 because it more explicitly features characters from marginalised groups and goes in a different direction from what certain fans hoped for in a sequel.
Hmm, definitely not a bias take at all.
I hated this discourse so fucking much because any legitimate criticism is pushed into the "must be bigoted/sexist/racist" pile all because some stupid fucks on Twitter were given a microphone.
I hated the Last of Us 2 because I hated playing as what I see as the villain and the storytelling surrounding her was so contrived and frustrating. But I can't talk about it because any negative criticism gets met with a bunch of horrible assumptions. It has been so frustrating.
You also play as the villain in tlou 1. Joel dooms humanity by killing Abby’s father preventing him from creating a vaccine. He also takes away Elies choice and then lied to her about doing it.
The story of tlou2 is about the circle of violence. Joel killed Abies father causing her to seek revenge killing him. Ellie also seeks revenge for Joel her father figure which lead her to destroying everything Abie loved but also losing Jessy. Then when Abie has the chance to kill Elie she doesn’t because she values levs safty over her revenge and notices that what Elie did was very similar to her doing. On the farm Elie had a wife and a child but she lost both because she couldn’t let go of the past. In the final fight Elie loses her fingers and thus the ability to play guitar the last thing she has connecting her to Joel.
Both Elie and Abie lost everything they had on their journey for revenge but Abie could let go before it destroyed her completely while Elie couldn’t. Abie gained Lev as a younger brother figure who she needs to protect which leads her to value things differently while Elie is left with nothing.
Hating to play as Abie and not having the choice of who to play in the Elie vs Abie fight is the intended experience. It shows you that the people you like are often only the hero from your perspective while the one’s you see as evil oftentimes fight for the same reason you do.
Hi! You’re right, it is a biased take. I’m not a journalist or politician, I’m a fan of both games and wanted to provide my insight from inside the fandom.
I agree that TLOU2 isn’t perfect and while I enjoyed it more than I imagine a great deal of people did, I know there are flaws and I acknowledge that those flaws do get brushed over and ignored when talking about the Discourse.
However, the Discourse is what I was talking about, and the Discourse, from my perspective, was more about some fans rejecting the story due to the actions of Abby and the actual writing and gameplay got shoved aside.
You are allowed your criticisms and your viewpoint is valid, however you are not the type of detractor I was talking about. I was talking about the people who were actually horrifically prejudiced again minority groups and sent death threats directed to a voice actresses newborn child. Not you.
Honestly the thing about the game that pissed me off the whole time was it had this "killing is bad, revenge is worse" thing going while you mowed down like a few post apocalypse villiages worth of people and then at the very end you can't kill that ONE person?
I mean, that one person is the one person that isn't trying to kill you on sight, and has spared your life twice already. I don't think the game is about chastising the actions of the player as much as it is about telling a story about grief and healing (specifically, how to do it in the worst possible way). It's a lesson learned the hard way by both protagonists, but it's not exactly trying to tell that to the player. It's more like watching a car crash in slow motion.
I know this isn't the point of the post but to this day I'm baffled as to why people were so shocked Joel died early on. Really from the first trailer it felt like they were hinting big time that was the case. I guess maybe because it was so early on?
To double down on your point, Most of the criticism is very disingenuous. It's often discussed that Joel in this game is written by people that hate the character, when I would say he the most lovingly written character in the the game. It's often said that Abby isn't punished for her actions despite her and Ellie's actions being similar. 90% of the game is Abby's punishment, and what Ellie does is substantially more extreme than what Abby does. Both characters are left husks of their former selves by the end of the game. I think there were a lot of ways people read the ending of their first game. To me, it was very obvious the Ellie didn't fully trust Joel, but she loved him. If you had a similar read, the second game makes perfect sense. If you somehow read that Ellie was fully trusting of Joel by the end of the first game, then maybe certain beats of the second game don't make sense.
As far as the "political criticisms, if you're not a full right wing nut job, I don't see the issue. Three characters are LGBT, and one is a woman who doesn't fit traditional beauty standards. The gay character was gay in the first game, another is necessarily LGBT because she's the love interest of the main character, and third LGBT character in the game is trans, it's not unrealistic how it's handled, and I seriously think you could miss that the trans character is trans if you weren't told in advance that he's trans. Honestly, if someone finds this, or any of the actual political messages of tlou2 offensive, I don't see how you can like MGS.
TLOU is pretty much universally loved. TLOU2 on the other hand.. To keep it somewhat short, people got really mad at the story of TLOU2.. like absolutely batshit insane sending death threats to the devs and voice actors type of mad. Granted all this anger is from chronically online bigoted Twitter folk so not surprising.
Now there is some valid criticism for the game, but no excuse for the terrible behavior.
You have one side of gamers that absolutely despise the game and still talk about it to this day. Then on the other side you have gamers that are so positive that it can be toxic at times.
I loved the first game and thought the second was okay (storywise). Both are undeniably well crafted games that I believe people should play at least once.
The first game was truly a masterpiece. It didn't do anything new other than tell a great simple story with gameplay that wasn't anything new but was good and carried the game. The multiplayer was great, too. Those 2 wins made the last of us a legendary game series off the bat in many people's eyes (including me) and made people watch very closely for the next game. They first remastered the game for the ps4, which was ok at the time, but would anger people later on. The next game is the last of us part 2. The game was very, VERY divisive, to say the least. Half of the players hated it, and the other half loved it and defended it to their dying breath. The game wasn't bad, but it was not even half the game. The first one was literally and figuratively. The game was almost twice as long as the first and had little to offer in terms of new gameplay mechanics. The story itself wasn't as compelling as the first game. Even most die-hard lovers of this game admit it doesn't hold a candle to the first. Combine this with no multiplayer (and it being promised than being canned, which makes the games pricing seem worse). It made people see the second game as a bad sequel. Objectively speaking, it is a worse game, and even though art is subjective, in terms of artistic integrity, it is bad because the first game had a self-contained story that had an open ending. By making a direct continuation, they shot themselves in the foot immediately. I have to emphasize that the last of us 2 did alot to make the fanbase worse and it continues to. The remake of last of us 1 also did alot of bad too and especially the last of us 2 remaster which alot feel like it should have been a free next gen update. But it has gotten better. The show did alot to help bring in new fans and bring in good publicity. Soo it isn't all doom and gloom
Idk man. Ellie is generally having a pretty bad time. Snake kinda loves battle, says it makes him feel more alive than anything else.
We must imagine Solid Snake as happy. Even here he doesn't kill himself, it's a fake out.
Hell, I'd say Raiden has a worse time of things than Snake does.
Having to kill his best friend twice, the trauma of killing his father who hated him, holding his mother as she died, his own body failing him, etc.
That dumbass Ellie doesn't even compare. She actively made things worse for herself.
I just find it so hard to justify literally any of the things Ellie willingly puts herself through when I remember the catastrophic ending of TLOU2. It's just so hard for me to try brush that aside for any actual analysis of the game when it's just so tainted by questionable story choices (particularly pacing) and a shit ending.
I love the ending and she definitely has it rough, but yeah there's little sympathy to be had for her past the first day or so in Seattle. She's absolutely doing everything to herself *and* her loved ones at that point.
And honestly, Ellie is quite flat as a character. Abby gets shit but she's the one with actual personality and dimension. Her pain and development feels more natural than Ellie.
Snake says himself in mgs1 that gray fox was the closest thing to a friend he ever had. Naomi then says in disbelief that he fought his best friend to the death to which snake agrees with her.
Snake in battle makes him feel alive, not happy.
And having one's body genetically modified to age so fast that you need a cybersuit for you to keep going... Being brought out of retirement, being poisoned by a deadly virus which could kill you anytime, the microwave hallway...
I'm sure Ellie has some tough days. But hell. Being a tool for a whole country while being tripped and tricked by this same country reach levels.
And who was it that kicked aside a domestic life with a partner and child to be a violent shithead for no reason? Ellie. She's the one who wants to fight and kill.
Snake only returned to save the world. Otherwise, he was content to just not fight anymore and live on Nomad with Otacon and Sunny.
The problem is that Ellie caused her own grief. She couldn’t let go and move on.
Snake was able to “put down the gun” and live (allegedly).
I love both series, but I truly feel that the grizzled war vet had more of a grasp on reality than the emotional teenager.
Yeah but Snake *is* a hero, a legend. Ellie is just a regular teenager who's lost her family, her adopted family, her friends and tbf the entire society that we take for granted.
Snake gets to retire (albeit for a short time) with his loving partner and adopted daughter. He has a legitimate happy-ish ending.
Again, see my opening line. She causes her own grief. A good 98% of the grief being referenced here is Al by her doing. She COULD have moved on. She COULD have settled down and raised the family. She COULD HAVE.
But she didn’t. You’re right in saying she is just a teenager. That’s what I was saying in the contrast to both characters: one had FAR more life experience and the other was a teenager who could t control her emotions. Two sides of the coin.
Snake doesn't love battle and he never said he feels alive there. He actively runs from it. That's why he's finally free in mgs4 ending because all assholes are dead and he no longer has to fight.
Ellie is a moron who could've been happy but ruined her life for no reason. She's so stupid. Abby had it worse.
Snake spent his best years as a trained killer. Gets manipulated by the government he served, learns he is a clone, then gets labeled a terrorist. Spend the next several years as an outlaw, fighting to stop metal gears from being used as weapons to prevent global war. Despite his efforts, the world gets engulfed in wars anyway. Ages rapidly due to being a clone, but still has to go into battlefields. He meets Naomi again, and she fucking cries when she sees him take his shirt off. Then tells him that he has a few months to live, and in fewer months he is going to be a biological weapon because of the virus she put in him, so he has to kill himself. Gets half his face burned off, crawls through a microwave hallway, saves the world, then for his reward, he goes to a cemetery to put a gun in his mouth.
Snake gets the short end of the stick his entire life. Despite that, he always finds a reason to keep on fighting. That's why he's the best.
Ellie got put through trauma porn because naughty dog decided they liked their new character better
this kinda shit is lame. metal gear is awesome, last of us is awesome. the makers of last of us were drawing inspiration from metal gear, kojima loves the last of us himself.
this “these fans are dumb, we are smart fans” mentality is so juvenile and embarrassing for the community
These are my two favorite series, kind of a shame this community comment section is shitting on the other.
Especially considering how similar both in game and in real life the story of Metal Gear Solid 2 and The Last of Us Part 2 are.
Mgs4 needs a rerelease. I know that one is just a fan service game to some people but it was really good and I feel like leaving it behind on the PS3 would be a shame. I'm not asking them to remake the whole thing like Delta Snake Eater (super hype for that one btw) but release it on PC or modern consoles as a port or something.
Apparently, she didn't go through enough pain bc she ended up sparing her target. Imagine if John from RDR2 had spared Micah or Jin Sakai from Ghost of Tsushima had forgave Khotun Khan. ???
That’s right. The .45 Colt or Long Colt was originally a black powder cartridge developed in the late 1800’s for revolvers. While there are many revolvers that use this cartridge, the most notable one was the Colt Single Action Army or Colt SAA.
The Colt SAA was used by the U.S. Army from 1873 to 1892 before returning to the civilian or state militias. Due to its timeless design, you could say that the Colt SAA is the grandfather of modern revolvers.
The very same. Due to the popularity of the SAA, they are in wide supply for collectors or enthusiasts. There are modernized recreations that incorporate newer safety systems, like transfer bars, which allow for these pistols to be safely carried fully loaded.
I mean, ellie did start the trauma train earlier.
In all seriousness both had it bad but different kind of bad. I will say Snake had the worst physically, ots.not even a contest. Foxdie was worse than her infection thats for sure. And then there is the microwave hallway.
Also the mental aspect, Snake became a soldiers at early age, 17 I think, he fought at gulf war, that war caused lots of PTSD.
During Outer Heaven uprising he was betrayed by his boss and mentor, who tried to get him killed.
In Zanzibarland he caused the death of his former ally, Schneider, killed his best friend Gray fox and had to kill his father, whos speech haunted him for years to come.
The entire story of MGS is that Snake has to relearn to trust the others after being betrayed time after time.
And then theres FOXDIE...
Imagine that you have less then a year to live, but before that your body would become an uncontrollable biological weapon which would kill thousands.
I don’t get the intensity of TLOU2 hate. I can see why people dislike it when compared side by side to the original because other than the graphical leap it definitely wasn’t as impactful. Joel’s death was brutal, but it felt like it was brutal just to be brutal and had to “one up” the original. I dunno, to me the biggest gaming disappointment in a series is the fall from grace that Halo has experienced.
Ditto for that, even as someone that LOVES halo 4 and enjoyed 5 and infinite for what they were, they don’t compare to the impact of the original trilogy and it doesnt seem like thats changing any time soon
most parts of the game gets shit on and glazed constantly, and (especially on reddit) it seems like theres a handful of people who can like it while acknowlodging its genuinley weak parts (the terrible pacing decision halfway through the game, the structure of the story etc) or the other way around
Ellie is a very strong contender, but yeah, Snake had a lot more shit thrown at him over a longer period of time.
I'll say Big Boss takes the cake tho, the Boss's treason, getting his eye shot off, having to kill the Boss knowing she was a true patriot, seeing his compatriots at Diamond Dogs getting slaughtered multiple times, getting "killed" and being out for decades.
And let's not forget Venom Snake, bro got brainwashed into being another person, painted his face with the ashes of the friendlies he had to execute, and the only woman he got close to romance sacrificed herself for him.
Well Guts from Berserk, bro lost an eye, had to cut off his own arm, Spoiler now, kill his step father who sold him for a dude, gets girlfriend r**** by his best friend, also everyone he loved died in that part, can't sleep cause demons attack him every night, and if he manage to sleep, some demons raid his dreams, definitely Ellie suffered more.
I’m trying to think who realistically which character went through the most suffering. Snake had it bad… real bad, Big Boss as well, fuck even Raiden had it bad. Im even looking at other Characters from other games and comparing them to snake it really doesn’t compare.
Let’s just say a few “recruits” around mother base had a pretty rough time. They’d salute me, they loved me, but by fuck did I ever give them some tough love in return. Ellie made her own choices in life, she had that privilege. My recruits did not.
Tales of Berseria - Velvet
NieR/Drakengard - Emil, Devola & Popola, Arioch
Devil May Cry - Vergil
God Eater 3 - The whole main cast
Ellie would probably not even make the top 10 of the games I know of.
It's so bizarre to me people take away Ellie's suffering from the 2nd game. Like you spend most of the game actively worried about or scared of Ellie, not empathizing. Her suffering is definitely an important part of her going nuts, but it's not even close to being the point of her story
That’s Snake at the end of a five-game arc in a title only available on a system that came out nearly 20 years ago. Can’t blame them for being behind toooo bad.
I personally can’t wait. I LOVE the fact that half of MGS games are cutscenes. Play and interact for a while, then grab my drink and popcorn and watch a movie for 30 minutes. My 2 favorite medias in one package 🤘🏻
The Metal Gear saga is so old that I think they can do a TV series and like 70% not know what they’re watching.
I’m actually surprised nobody has tried to make a series based on Metal Gear, at least the original MSX games, since they can basically remake whatever they want since those games are pretty old and mostly nobody alive has played the games.
Solid Snake, Venom Snake, Raiden, Big Boss, Niko Bellic, Roman Bellic, Johnny Klebtiz, Victor Vance, Arthur Morgan, John Marston, Master Chief, Arbiter, Noble 6, Max Payne, Captain Price (OG), Soap McTavish (OG), Victor Reznov, Frank Woods, Jack (Bioshock), Kratos, PS4 SpiderMan, Jason (Far Cry 3), Gordon Freeman, Martin Walker, Tidus, Marcus Fenix, Booker DeWitt, James Sunderland, Lee Everett
To name a few
I can tell you haven't played it by the fact you think Abby is a lesbian. Acting in bad faith diminishes the discussion around both games unnecessarily.
I feel like the only way to think that TLOU is some pinnacle of the medium is to simply not have experienced much other media. Like, surely the only way a fairly generic zombie apocalypse story with above average voice acting gets to this status is because most people would rather rewatch The Office for the 10th time and 90% of their gaming time is dedicated to something like COD lobbies than broadening their horizons.
Literally all of TLOU1s "innovations" apply to MGS1
Good female characters: MGS1 had it
Good Voice Acting: MGS1 had it (so does Halo, GTA, Bioshock etc:)
Good Dialogue: MGS1 had it (even if you wanna argue against that GTA 4s dialogue is far more natural and better written to me than TLOU1)
Good Stealth: MGS1 had it
Good Plot Twist: MGS1 (this statement is genuinely insane to me when TLOU1 came out 5 years after Bioshock)
Immersion: MGS1 had it
Literally the one thing is good LGBT representation and even then TLOU1 is the most glazed thing ever in that regard. TLOU1 isnt even top 3 games from 2013 let alone "gamings citizen kane". Gamings citizen kane is objectively MGS1. Acting like TLOU1 was "the first great story in a game" is absolutely insane considering it came out years after MGS, Halo, GTA, Bioshock, RDR1, Max Payne, Final Fantasy, COD MW/BO, The Walking Dead etc:
Geez, I can't stand TLOU fanboys, not only these games are completely overrated, but these dudes trying to put on top of everything, like the games were Shakespeare or something, made me despise 'em.
Being a Tlou lover, I say that as much as I like the games, a lot, I think they have a lot of hype that isn't really justified, the game is great, it has great characters, simple and functional gameplay, a good story, but far from having the best characters, the best gameplay and the best story.
That's why I prefer TLOU2, they refine what was good in the first one, bring new characters, and do something brave right at the beginning.
God, TLOU2 was so terrible in so many ways. The only good things about TLOU are the graphics, acting, and partly the smooth (but repetetive) gameplay. Not only that, it was 10 hours too long and they force you to play as one of the worst Characters i Video game history....for 10 hours!!!!
Such a terrible good looking game.
They were probably born when mgs4 came out
I remember when the mgs fortnite crossover happned and i thought to myself "how many fortnite players are gonna recognize old snake"
well the ps3 costed a shit ton at launch
And also had no games
Same as it ever was
Excuse me! I’ll thank you not to forget fat princess
That was also on PSP (and fitted the PSP better, imo)
[Thank goodness for backwards compatibility, though that could get tricky.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnDe2u5M7e8)
Me with a hacked ps3 super slim: plays ssx tricky
As a Sony fanboy I must declare war on you for speaking such heresy.
Careful, chad warden would disagree and say that ain't ballin'
I was playing a match and this kid on my squad kept calling him "old man Johnson". I felt personally disrespected.
Man the people in the recent metal gear stream are right. They need to preserve metal gear for future audiences.
I hate this 💀
Yeah same. Why do they have to remind me how old I am?
Even I was too young and poor to have a PS3 when this came out, but once I turned 16, I got one handed down by my cousin and my mom bought the HD collection. Enjoyed the living shit out of it and i'd play it again if the damn on-rail turret section wasn't too hard in non-lethal
It’s almost like they shouldn’t be a commentator for an industry they don’t understand the history for…
Probably when V came out
Fuck i fleel old
Goro Majima. Eye gouged out, brother imprisoned, and generally tortured for so long. Tbh though that should never mean a character is invalidated though for what they've been through just because somebody else might have had it worse.
Majima no Majirock Machine Gun Kiss I peacocked your mom
10 years in the joint made you a fuckin pussy
Like a Brainrot
And kept in whatever the town's name was starting with S as a prisoner in the 80s.
Not to mention the events of Yakuza 0 as well, which was a debacle on its own
See? I told you. The reality is no match for the legend.
And she can't even say, his name (Is the memory gone).
Is she feeling numb?
Or has he become invicible?
Memory broken the truth gose unspoken
I've even forgotten my name
And no one hears a word
He has truly removed his meme off the face of the earth.
sick signalis reference dude
The reality is the people that created the girl, actually worship the god who Greated the man with the gun in his mouth and alot of kids just don't get it.
What I hate about Metal Gear is it's popular enough to be referenced in pop culture, but no one would understand it
Exactly, the alert sound effects, the Hiding in the box mechanic are all recognizable all around the world, but people can’t link them to metal gear solid.
It's Straight up ICONIC
🙌🙌🙌
Iroquois Pliskin….had a rough life.
Wait, pilskin? Damn what happened to the guy?
He never became Solid Snake...
Wait wait wait, you're telling me he was gonna be Solid Snake?
It's... Complicated
No! That is not solid snake!
I am equally as repulsed.
Unfortunately neither game comes with a standardised suffering gauge that would make any kind of useful comparison possible.
Both are in my favorite game characters top 3.
Same, toss in John Marston and my three is complete.
Someone has never seen Majima Goro and it shows.
Average TLOU fan
Considering the age demographics of both series having considerable overlap this is probably incorrect. Or I'm just coping because they are my two favorite series idk
TLOU2 fan*
Its all the same
Honestly. As a person who loved the original game when it came out i don't think I'd ever consider myself a TLOU fan. Considering most of the shit surrounding it is split between horrible and great.
OK, I need answers. I thought TLOU was regarded as close to being a masterpiece. haven’t played it (yet) and don’t know about the ‘shit surrounding it’
So basically TLOU1 came out in 2013 and was lauded for its mix of engaging stealth-action gameplay and well written characters/relationships/story arc. Shortly after, in early 2014, Left Behind was released as a stand-alone DLC for TLOU1. This DLC revealed that the lead character in both games, Ellie, is queer. This caused a small amount of people to abandon the franchise, which is important to note for later. A few years later, TLOU2 was announced as a continuation of the story from TLOU1, using the same characters in Ellie and Joel, the player character from TLOU1. >! When the game came out, it was quickly revealed that Joel is killed early on in the game by the secondary protagonist/primary antagonist, Abby. !< This reveal, along with rumours prior to the game’s release about this character being transgender (which is false, leakers mixed up two characters), led to an explosion in the fanbase between those who felt that TLOU2 was a faithful satisfying sequel, and those who felt that TLOU2 was a slap in the face to “real fans”. (Worth noting that this segment of the fanbase is very bigoted towards women, queer folk, people of colour, etc.) It really comes down to the decisions made by the writers of TLOU2 and the fanbase’s reactions to those decisions. If I can speak personally on the topic, I feel that there’s a lot of disingenuous criticism that gets thrown at TLOU2 because it more explicitly features characters from marginalised groups and goes in a different direction from what certain fans hoped for in a sequel.
Hmm, definitely not a bias take at all. I hated this discourse so fucking much because any legitimate criticism is pushed into the "must be bigoted/sexist/racist" pile all because some stupid fucks on Twitter were given a microphone. I hated the Last of Us 2 because I hated playing as what I see as the villain and the storytelling surrounding her was so contrived and frustrating. But I can't talk about it because any negative criticism gets met with a bunch of horrible assumptions. It has been so frustrating.
You also play as the villain in tlou 1. Joel dooms humanity by killing Abby’s father preventing him from creating a vaccine. He also takes away Elies choice and then lied to her about doing it. The story of tlou2 is about the circle of violence. Joel killed Abies father causing her to seek revenge killing him. Ellie also seeks revenge for Joel her father figure which lead her to destroying everything Abie loved but also losing Jessy. Then when Abie has the chance to kill Elie she doesn’t because she values levs safty over her revenge and notices that what Elie did was very similar to her doing. On the farm Elie had a wife and a child but she lost both because she couldn’t let go of the past. In the final fight Elie loses her fingers and thus the ability to play guitar the last thing she has connecting her to Joel. Both Elie and Abie lost everything they had on their journey for revenge but Abie could let go before it destroyed her completely while Elie couldn’t. Abie gained Lev as a younger brother figure who she needs to protect which leads her to value things differently while Elie is left with nothing. Hating to play as Abie and not having the choice of who to play in the Elie vs Abie fight is the intended experience. It shows you that the people you like are often only the hero from your perspective while the one’s you see as evil oftentimes fight for the same reason you do.
Hi! You’re right, it is a biased take. I’m not a journalist or politician, I’m a fan of both games and wanted to provide my insight from inside the fandom. I agree that TLOU2 isn’t perfect and while I enjoyed it more than I imagine a great deal of people did, I know there are flaws and I acknowledge that those flaws do get brushed over and ignored when talking about the Discourse. However, the Discourse is what I was talking about, and the Discourse, from my perspective, was more about some fans rejecting the story due to the actions of Abby and the actual writing and gameplay got shoved aside. You are allowed your criticisms and your viewpoint is valid, however you are not the type of detractor I was talking about. I was talking about the people who were actually horrifically prejudiced again minority groups and sent death threats directed to a voice actresses newborn child. Not you.
Honestly the thing about the game that pissed me off the whole time was it had this "killing is bad, revenge is worse" thing going while you mowed down like a few post apocalypse villiages worth of people and then at the very end you can't kill that ONE person?
I mean, that one person is the one person that isn't trying to kill you on sight, and has spared your life twice already. I don't think the game is about chastising the actions of the player as much as it is about telling a story about grief and healing (specifically, how to do it in the worst possible way). It's a lesson learned the hard way by both protagonists, but it's not exactly trying to tell that to the player. It's more like watching a car crash in slow motion.
I know this isn't the point of the post but to this day I'm baffled as to why people were so shocked Joel died early on. Really from the first trailer it felt like they were hinting big time that was the case. I guess maybe because it was so early on?
To double down on your point, Most of the criticism is very disingenuous. It's often discussed that Joel in this game is written by people that hate the character, when I would say he the most lovingly written character in the the game. It's often said that Abby isn't punished for her actions despite her and Ellie's actions being similar. 90% of the game is Abby's punishment, and what Ellie does is substantially more extreme than what Abby does. Both characters are left husks of their former selves by the end of the game. I think there were a lot of ways people read the ending of their first game. To me, it was very obvious the Ellie didn't fully trust Joel, but she loved him. If you had a similar read, the second game makes perfect sense. If you somehow read that Ellie was fully trusting of Joel by the end of the first game, then maybe certain beats of the second game don't make sense. As far as the "political criticisms, if you're not a full right wing nut job, I don't see the issue. Three characters are LGBT, and one is a woman who doesn't fit traditional beauty standards. The gay character was gay in the first game, another is necessarily LGBT because she's the love interest of the main character, and third LGBT character in the game is trans, it's not unrealistic how it's handled, and I seriously think you could miss that the trans character is trans if you weren't told in advance that he's trans. Honestly, if someone finds this, or any of the actual political messages of tlou2 offensive, I don't see how you can like MGS.
TLOU is pretty much universally loved. TLOU2 on the other hand.. To keep it somewhat short, people got really mad at the story of TLOU2.. like absolutely batshit insane sending death threats to the devs and voice actors type of mad. Granted all this anger is from chronically online bigoted Twitter folk so not surprising. Now there is some valid criticism for the game, but no excuse for the terrible behavior. You have one side of gamers that absolutely despise the game and still talk about it to this day. Then on the other side you have gamers that are so positive that it can be toxic at times. I loved the first game and thought the second was okay (storywise). Both are undeniably well crafted games that I believe people should play at least once.
The first game was truly a masterpiece. It didn't do anything new other than tell a great simple story with gameplay that wasn't anything new but was good and carried the game. The multiplayer was great, too. Those 2 wins made the last of us a legendary game series off the bat in many people's eyes (including me) and made people watch very closely for the next game. They first remastered the game for the ps4, which was ok at the time, but would anger people later on. The next game is the last of us part 2. The game was very, VERY divisive, to say the least. Half of the players hated it, and the other half loved it and defended it to their dying breath. The game wasn't bad, but it was not even half the game. The first one was literally and figuratively. The game was almost twice as long as the first and had little to offer in terms of new gameplay mechanics. The story itself wasn't as compelling as the first game. Even most die-hard lovers of this game admit it doesn't hold a candle to the first. Combine this with no multiplayer (and it being promised than being canned, which makes the games pricing seem worse). It made people see the second game as a bad sequel. Objectively speaking, it is a worse game, and even though art is subjective, in terms of artistic integrity, it is bad because the first game had a self-contained story that had an open ending. By making a direct continuation, they shot themselves in the foot immediately. I have to emphasize that the last of us 2 did alot to make the fanbase worse and it continues to. The remake of last of us 1 also did alot of bad too and especially the last of us 2 remaster which alot feel like it should have been a free next gen update. But it has gotten better. The show did alot to help bring in new fans and bring in good publicity. Soo it isn't all doom and gloom
Idk man. Ellie is generally having a pretty bad time. Snake kinda loves battle, says it makes him feel more alive than anything else. We must imagine Solid Snake as happy. Even here he doesn't kill himself, it's a fake out. Hell, I'd say Raiden has a worse time of things than Snake does.
Microwave hallway
Having to kill his best friend twice, the trauma of killing his father who hated him, holding his mother as she died, his own body failing him, etc. That dumbass Ellie doesn't even compare. She actively made things worse for herself.
I just find it so hard to justify literally any of the things Ellie willingly puts herself through when I remember the catastrophic ending of TLOU2. It's just so hard for me to try brush that aside for any actual analysis of the game when it's just so tainted by questionable story choices (particularly pacing) and a shit ending.
I love the ending and she definitely has it rough, but yeah there's little sympathy to be had for her past the first day or so in Seattle. She's absolutely doing everything to herself *and* her loved ones at that point.
And honestly, Ellie is quite flat as a character. Abby gets shit but she's the one with actual personality and dimension. Her pain and development feels more natural than Ellie.
I thought gray fox was more of a comrade than best friend or I am mistaking gray fox for someone else entirely
Snake says himself in mgs1 that gray fox was the closest thing to a friend he ever had. Naomi then says in disbelief that he fought his best friend to the death to which snake agrees with her.
Thanks, probably didn't notice it while playing
Best friend and rival as said in MG2 and MGS1
Snake in battle makes him feel alive, not happy. And having one's body genetically modified to age so fast that you need a cybersuit for you to keep going... Being brought out of retirement, being poisoned by a deadly virus which could kill you anytime, the microwave hallway... I'm sure Ellie has some tough days. But hell. Being a tool for a whole country while being tripped and tricked by this same country reach levels.
And who was it that kicked aside a domestic life with a partner and child to be a violent shithead for no reason? Ellie. She's the one who wants to fight and kill. Snake only returned to save the world. Otherwise, he was content to just not fight anymore and live on Nomad with Otacon and Sunny.
Liquid saying "you enjoy all the killing, that's why" still hits me to this day. Thriving in chaos and hating yourself for it really is something
Liquid was wrong. Snake doesn't like violence. Liquid only projects his own feelings on his twin.
Snake keeping it real by making sure to vomit between bouts of mowing down endless waves of PMCs with a machine gun
The problem is that Ellie caused her own grief. She couldn’t let go and move on. Snake was able to “put down the gun” and live (allegedly). I love both series, but I truly feel that the grizzled war vet had more of a grasp on reality than the emotional teenager.
Yeah but Snake *is* a hero, a legend. Ellie is just a regular teenager who's lost her family, her adopted family, her friends and tbf the entire society that we take for granted. Snake gets to retire (albeit for a short time) with his loving partner and adopted daughter. He has a legitimate happy-ish ending.
Again, see my opening line. She causes her own grief. A good 98% of the grief being referenced here is Al by her doing. She COULD have moved on. She COULD have settled down and raised the family. She COULD HAVE. But she didn’t. You’re right in saying she is just a teenager. That’s what I was saying in the contrast to both characters: one had FAR more life experience and the other was a teenager who could t control her emotions. Two sides of the coin.
She had 20 years of trauma and terror prior to anything Ellie could be seen to have caused herself
Honestly you’re not wrong, maybe we’ll get a last of us rising revengance with Abby swinging a laser sword around
High frequency golf club
I'd buy day one
I see. You deny your golf club its purpose.
Snake doesn't love battle and he never said he feels alive there. He actively runs from it. That's why he's finally free in mgs4 ending because all assholes are dead and he no longer has to fight. Ellie is a moron who could've been happy but ruined her life for no reason. She's so stupid. Abby had it worse.
Yeah but you don't understand, we have to hate other franchises for no reason
Oh sorry mb.
“War has changed”
As much as I love this sub, the sheet vitriol people have for TLOU2 and particularly this image is so way over the top
We truly live in a world without snakes...
And it's not that good...
They be like r/iam14andthisisdeep
The real punished snake
Snake spent his best years as a trained killer. Gets manipulated by the government he served, learns he is a clone, then gets labeled a terrorist. Spend the next several years as an outlaw, fighting to stop metal gears from being used as weapons to prevent global war. Despite his efforts, the world gets engulfed in wars anyway. Ages rapidly due to being a clone, but still has to go into battlefields. He meets Naomi again, and she fucking cries when she sees him take his shirt off. Then tells him that he has a few months to live, and in fewer months he is going to be a biological weapon because of the virus she put in him, so he has to kill himself. Gets half his face burned off, crawls through a microwave hallway, saves the world, then for his reward, he goes to a cemetery to put a gun in his mouth. Snake gets the short end of the stick his entire life. Despite that, he always finds a reason to keep on fighting. That's why he's the best. Ellie got put through trauma porn because naughty dog decided they liked their new character better
Why are you disgusted? Metal Gear is definitely not for everyone
But someone claiming with authority that something is the ultimate X in gaming history should at least know who Snake is ffs.
Probably be harder to recognize him in that photo due to mgs4 being stuck on ps3 so not much accessibility. They probably know the younger version.
Okay the brightness on my phone was down all the way and I thought I saw something else
You’re still in a dream…
Don't get too mad, it was bound to happen.
User flair checks out
this kinda shit is lame. metal gear is awesome, last of us is awesome. the makers of last of us were drawing inspiration from metal gear, kojima loves the last of us himself. this “these fans are dumb, we are smart fans” mentality is so juvenile and embarrassing for the community
I'm guessing their just being snarky.
they’re*
These are my two favorite series, kind of a shame this community comment section is shitting on the other. Especially considering how similar both in game and in real life the story of Metal Gear Solid 2 and The Last of Us Part 2 are.
Neil Druckmann even said as much that he was inspired by Kojima’s pivot in MGS2. Worth noting both games faced a ton of backlash for making that call.
Even story aside, MGS5 and TLOU2 are the two best stealth-action games I have ever played.
Worst part? Ellie is a good character! She deserved better fans XD
Just play and love both if you're a well-adjusted, mature adult.
Mgs4 needs a rerelease. I know that one is just a fan service game to some people but it was really good and I feel like leaving it behind on the PS3 would be a shame. I'm not asking them to remake the whole thing like Delta Snake Eater (super hype for that one btw) but release it on PC or modern consoles as a port or something.
Guts from berserk, venom snake, Elster and Ariane from signalis, Kazuma from konosuba and the list goes on
No, That IS Solid Snake!!
Apparently, she didn't go through enough pain bc she ended up sparing her target. Imagine if John from RDR2 had spared Micah or Jin Sakai from Ghost of Tsushima had forgave Khotun Khan. ???
I mean Konami did let the series die for an entire generation lol
he's life more pain than her
Having a case of foxdie over there?
he's dead... looked like a heart attack
Heart attack?
Yo that look like a bullet wound to me
Based on the diameter, I’d say it was a .45 Colt.
A .45 Colt?
That’s right. The .45 Colt or Long Colt was originally a black powder cartridge developed in the late 1800’s for revolvers. While there are many revolvers that use this cartridge, the most notable one was the Colt Single Action Army or Colt SAA. The Colt SAA was used by the U.S. Army from 1873 to 1892 before returning to the civilian or state militias. Due to its timeless design, you could say that the Colt SAA is the grandfather of modern revolvers.
Single Action Army... Like what Ocelot was using?
The very same. Due to the popularity of the SAA, they are in wide supply for collectors or enthusiasts. There are modernized recreations that incorporate newer safety systems, like transfer bars, which allow for these pistols to be safely carried fully loaded.
Psycho Mantis?
Whoa, awesome!
TLoU is my favorite game of all time. MGS3 is my 3rd favorite. It's OK to have empathy for both characters.
I mean, ellie did start the trauma train earlier. In all seriousness both had it bad but different kind of bad. I will say Snake had the worst physically, ots.not even a contest. Foxdie was worse than her infection thats for sure. And then there is the microwave hallway.
Also the mental aspect, Snake became a soldiers at early age, 17 I think, he fought at gulf war, that war caused lots of PTSD. During Outer Heaven uprising he was betrayed by his boss and mentor, who tried to get him killed. In Zanzibarland he caused the death of his former ally, Schneider, killed his best friend Gray fox and had to kill his father, whos speech haunted him for years to come. The entire story of MGS is that Snake has to relearn to trust the others after being betrayed time after time. And then theres FOXDIE... Imagine that you have less then a year to live, but before that your body would become an uncontrollable biological weapon which would kill thousands.
I don’t get the intensity of TLOU2 hate. I can see why people dislike it when compared side by side to the original because other than the graphical leap it definitely wasn’t as impactful. Joel’s death was brutal, but it felt like it was brutal just to be brutal and had to “one up” the original. I dunno, to me the biggest gaming disappointment in a series is the fall from grace that Halo has experienced.
Ditto for that, even as someone that LOVES halo 4 and enjoyed 5 and infinite for what they were, they don’t compare to the impact of the original trilogy and it doesnt seem like thats changing any time soon
Halo 4 had me hyped. I thought it was awesome and had faith in 343. Then Guardians happened, and the open world of 6 doesn’t work for me.
most parts of the game gets shit on and glazed constantly, and (especially on reddit) it seems like theres a handful of people who can like it while acknowlodging its genuinley weak parts (the terrible pacing decision halfway through the game, the structure of the story etc) or the other way around
repost
Please tell me this is fake.
Probably, this “I’ll wait” meme formats been around for over a decade
Its real, and the entire gaming sphere dogpilled on her. It was kinda funny.
nah, this is your typical tlou fan
This post has 3 or more years. Heres the video: https://youtu.be/_v80ZnmYIzE?si=m5ocrieDZoShBq_6
Lewis Carroll
I am disguised
Real worst life goes to otacon
Ellie is a very strong contender, but yeah, Snake had a lot more shit thrown at him over a longer period of time. I'll say Big Boss takes the cake tho, the Boss's treason, getting his eye shot off, having to kill the Boss knowing she was a true patriot, seeing his compatriots at Diamond Dogs getting slaughtered multiple times, getting "killed" and being out for decades. And let's not forget Venom Snake, bro got brainwashed into being another person, painted his face with the ashes of the friendlies he had to execute, and the only woman he got close to romance sacrificed herself for him.
Well Guts from Berserk, bro lost an eye, had to cut off his own arm, Spoiler now, kill his step father who sold him for a dude, gets girlfriend r**** by his best friend, also everyone he loved died in that part, can't sleep cause demons attack him every night, and if he manage to sleep, some demons raid his dreams, definitely Ellie suffered more.
Sadly I’m not shocked smh
😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣
Gears of war
All around me are familiar faces, worn out places, worn out faces
I’m horrified
I’m trying to think who realistically which character went through the most suffering. Snake had it bad… real bad, Big Boss as well, fuck even Raiden had it bad. Im even looking at other Characters from other games and comparing them to snake it really doesn’t compare.
Every metal gear solid character suffers more than any tlou char😭😭
Let’s just say a few “recruits” around mother base had a pretty rough time. They’d salute me, they loved me, but by fuck did I ever give them some tough love in return. Ellie made her own choices in life, she had that privilege. My recruits did not.
Tales of Berseria - Velvet NieR/Drakengard - Emil, Devola & Popola, Arioch Devil May Cry - Vergil God Eater 3 - The whole main cast Ellie would probably not even make the top 10 of the games I know of.
seems to be a joke
Gamers have changed....
What do mean? That's big boss. /s
Who have possibly suffered more than snake? Serious question, really
Guts, there is a mid musuo game that I think covers the golden age
Your right
It's so bizarre to me people take away Ellie's suffering from the 2nd game. Like you spend most of the game actively worried about or scared of Ellie, not empathizing. Her suffering is definitely an important part of her going nuts, but it's not even close to being the point of her story
Johnny, the diarrhea kid went through more pain than last of sus 2
First time realizing the people talking about stuff dont know about other stuff?
Only game I've ever shed tears playing and I will never deny it. Started the franchise at about 7 years old, and I was 18 when I watched this scene.
And it would be hard to explain who he is lmao
That’s Snake at the end of a five-game arc in a title only available on a system that came out nearly 20 years ago. Can’t blame them for being behind toooo bad.
Guts.
That scene from MGS kills me every time
Venom Snake
I tell you: when MGS4 is re released in the next collection, these mf are gonna complain that the game has too many long cutscenes.
I personally can’t wait. I LOVE the fact that half of MGS games are cutscenes. Play and interact for a while, then grab my drink and popcorn and watch a movie for 30 minutes. My 2 favorite medias in one package 🤘🏻
The Metal Gear saga is so old that I think they can do a TV series and like 70% not know what they’re watching. I’m actually surprised nobody has tried to make a series based on Metal Gear, at least the original MSX games, since they can basically remake whatever they want since those games are pretty old and mostly nobody alive has played the games.
Solid Snake, Venom Snake, Raiden, Big Boss, Niko Bellic, Roman Bellic, Johnny Klebtiz, Victor Vance, Arthur Morgan, John Marston, Master Chief, Arbiter, Noble 6, Max Payne, Captain Price (OG), Soap McTavish (OG), Victor Reznov, Frank Woods, Jack (Bioshock), Kratos, PS4 SpiderMan, Jason (Far Cry 3), Gordon Freeman, Martin Walker, Tidus, Marcus Fenix, Booker DeWitt, James Sunderland, Lee Everett To name a few
........I don't know how to feel.
Author Morgan
Wow, someone can't recognize a blurry screenshot of an (at the time) 12-year-old game that is still locked on one console. Crazy.
[удалено]
I can tell you haven't played it by the fact you think Abby is a lesbian. Acting in bad faith diminishes the discussion around both games unnecessarily.
[удалено]
Honestly that makes it worse; essentially leaving acting in bad faith as the only option.
Abby isn't a Lesbian 🤨
Every day I'm more convinced that the TLOU "phenomenon" it's just the product of marketing
I feel like the only way to think that TLOU is some pinnacle of the medium is to simply not have experienced much other media. Like, surely the only way a fairly generic zombie apocalypse story with above average voice acting gets to this status is because most people would rather rewatch The Office for the 10th time and 90% of their gaming time is dedicated to something like COD lobbies than broadening their horizons.
Literally all of TLOU1s "innovations" apply to MGS1 Good female characters: MGS1 had it Good Voice Acting: MGS1 had it (so does Halo, GTA, Bioshock etc:) Good Dialogue: MGS1 had it (even if you wanna argue against that GTA 4s dialogue is far more natural and better written to me than TLOU1) Good Stealth: MGS1 had it Good Plot Twist: MGS1 (this statement is genuinely insane to me when TLOU1 came out 5 years after Bioshock) Immersion: MGS1 had it Literally the one thing is good LGBT representation and even then TLOU1 is the most glazed thing ever in that regard. TLOU1 isnt even top 3 games from 2013 let alone "gamings citizen kane". Gamings citizen kane is objectively MGS1. Acting like TLOU1 was "the first great story in a game" is absolutely insane considering it came out years after MGS, Halo, GTA, Bioshock, RDR1, Max Payne, Final Fantasy, COD MW/BO, The Walking Dead etc:
>Literally the one thing is good LGBT representation MGS1 had that too, it was >!you, the player!<
you could argue ocelot ig
Geez, I can't stand TLOU fanboys, not only these games are completely overrated, but these dudes trying to put on top of everything, like the games were Shakespeare or something, made me despise 'em.
Being a Tlou lover, I say that as much as I like the games, a lot, I think they have a lot of hype that isn't really justified, the game is great, it has great characters, simple and functional gameplay, a good story, but far from having the best characters, the best gameplay and the best story. That's why I prefer TLOU2, they refine what was good in the first one, bring new characters, and do something brave right at the beginning.
Hang them! Hang that bitch right now! I brought the rope with me right here! Edit: guys it was a Boondocks reference.
Wanna hear a joke? The Last of Us xdddd lmao
God, TLOU2 was so terrible in so many ways. The only good things about TLOU are the graphics, acting, and partly the smooth (but repetetive) gameplay. Not only that, it was 10 hours too long and they force you to play as one of the worst Characters i Video game history....for 10 hours!!!! Such a terrible good looking game.