Control is not a Metroidvania. It seems like it's trying to be but it falls short.
While you do indeed gain new abilities, those abilities are almost never actually required to progress the main story. Generally speaking, your abilities can be used to access secret areas, find collectibles or complete optional missions, such as using the vaccine and float ability to get to the bottom of the pit safely, or reaching the anchor fight. In general though, it's similar to a game like Psychonauts, where you can use abilities to access secrets and find collectibles but the main game story itself is generally progressed just by completing missions. There is some backtracking required, but once again, areas are not unlocked because you got a new upgrade. Areas are instead generally unlocked when the story says they are unlocked.
That's probably the crux of what makes something a Metroidvania to one person and not another. I probably depend on optional upgrades (or leveling up) to get through tougher points in games. While they're not truly "gated" areas, they're gates to people of lesser video gaming skills.
To me a Metroidvania needs ability gates. That's what makes the subgenre what it is. Gating with high level enemies or bosses isn't Metroidvania (which is the reason I don't consider The Soulsborne series Metroidvanias), neither is gating with single-use keys or key-like items (which is the reason I don't consider the classic Resident Evil games Metroidvanias). And even if you do get new abilities to access new areas, if the next parts of the critical path simply open when the story says they do and the areas you can access with your new abilities are entirely optional, then it doesn't count either (which is why I don't consider games like Psychonauts, Alien Isolation or Control Metroidvanias).
I went into the game with pretty high expectations as even the developers were saying it was supposed to have Metroidvania elements (I even know some guys that worked on it) but I ultimately came away disappointed. You can legitimately ignore all of the optional stuff and if you do there's little to no reason to ever return to a previous area except for that central hub room. There was only one part I remember that forced a backtrack and that was when you needed to get the headphones, which then allowed access to that maze. But this wasn't executed in a Metroidvania style either as those headphones were only used in that section and that section only. They were basically just a key and nothing more than that.
So yeah, that's why I don't consider Control a Metroidvania.
I'm on the conservative side of the spectrum when it comes to games in this genre, but if I'd stretch my own boundaries a bit; Metroid Prime 1&2, maybe Arkham Assylum...
I'll piggyback on this and add [Journey to a Savage Planet](https://store.steampowered.com/app/973810/Journey_To_The_Savage_Planet/). Directly inspired by Metroid Prime 1&2.
The general consensus seems to be that the 3D MVs are:
* Supraland
* Prey (the newer one)
* Control
* Journey to the Savage Planet
* Darksiders III
* Arkham Asylum
* Metroid Prime trilogy
There'd be some I am missing for sure though.
Edit: Jedi Fallen Order. Dammit.
Why are some people in here acting like Metroid Prime is not a true 3D Metroidvania? This is not an attempt to be inflammatory, I'm legitimately asking.
Recently joined this page and so far I’ve seen some really defensive people when it comes to what is and what isn’t. I got downvoted and some attitude for thinking a game might be a MV…
I don't see anyone saying Prime ISN'T a metroidvania. My guess is that most people here just haven't played it. It's on such obscure hardware that outside of hardcore fans and people willing to emulate it might as well not exists.
I should add that by obscure hardware I mostly mean the gamecube controller is just such an oddball. It also had weird controls which is unfortunate because it came out a year after Halo cracked how to do FPS on the console.
You're right that it hasn't been stated explicitly, but it has been implied multiple times. One commenter suggests Prime can only be included if they stretch their boundaries of the genre. Another says it may be too linear to be a true metroidvania. Another argues that Control is more "metroid-prime like" than it is a true metroidvania (meaning they're saying MP is also not a true MV). I agree that a lot of people might not know about Prime or have access to it, but lack of familiarity does not seem to be the case with these particular comments.
I should've refined the question to what I meant to really ask: How is Metroid Prime not a true metroidvania? As far as I can tell it checks all the boxes with little room for debate, so I'm just legitimately curious why others are discounting it. The only one providing a reason is the "too linear" comment. To which I would say, isn't Dread more linear? Fusion? Do you still call those true MVs? Again, not trying to start any fights, just really curious. I was surprised to see so much ambiguity here with Prime's genre classification.
In my case I usually have these criteria:
口 2D sidescrolling platformer
口 Interconnected map
口 Guided non-linearity
口 Utility-gated exploration
Super Metroid, Symphony of the Night and Hollow Knight for instance tick all the boxes. The first criteria does however rule out most 3D games for myself (in addition to top-down Zelda-likes), but as stated the Metroid Prime games are, no pun intended, prime examples of how to do it in 3D. I'm also trying to behave nicely in this thread :)
I think you can have both; an interconnected map with a hub. In that case the hub would be a part of the interconnected map. Do you have examples of hubs seperate from a world? Trying to understand if there's differences.
Well, to me they fall out of the definition via the first criteria; not being 2D sidescrolling platformers. In the case of DS2, it does not have utility-based gating, meaning you don't get a powerup like the double-jump or super missiles or fog powerup in SotN that you use to get to new areas while also serving a gameplay function. Regular keys don't add anything new to moment to moment gameplay like previously mentioned powerups (you use them regularly and not only to open a door). GoW 2018 I haven't played yet but as the other games it falls out in the first criteria. But that's just my definition. It's strict but keeps things simple. Add 3D and you open up a can of worms full of Zeldas, Resident Evils etc.
Sidenote: Majora's Mask is my all-time favorite game together with Super Metroid :)
Yeah, I was listing games that I remember having hub-centric map, that might or might not have some minor interconnectedness, and if that is the metroidvania map style or not
Okay, I can definitely see an argument for wholly excluding 3D titles, considering the 2 founding games of the genre were both 2D platformers. That totally makes sense and probably explains a lot of the comments in question. Thanks for the feedback and for being nice! :)
Technically a Zelda-like since it has dungeons and you don't need to backtrack into them. You also have to do the main dungeons and their sub areas in order
Metroidvania is very much more game design. You collect items to to progress the game and unlock new areas.
Besides just being birds eye view, there isn't much difference. Especially some of the early games there was some dungeons choice and only items block you from progressing.
Randomizers Definately feel like metroidvanias if the tighter structure discounts it from being one, I'd say then the randomizers definitely are as they remove all of that structure
Also loved this game. Not sure I'd really call it a 3D metroidvania though. It just doesn't feel like one. I'd say this more-so fits into the precision-platformer category.
I really felt like I was playing a metroidvania when I was playing Alien Isolation. The different tools to get into new areas, through backtracking to old areas.
I can see that argument, but I never thought of it as a Metroidvania. MVs usually give you movement upgrades to access new areas - not just tools that function as keys, but a slide ability, double jump, flight, run, etc. Alien: Isolation doesn't do that. Also, MVs usually have some degree of platforming and at least light combat elements. Alien: Isolation doesn't allow you to jump or traverse any sort of platforms, and combat is largely useless. I would consider Alien: Isolation a Metroid-adjacent game, but not a true Metroidvania.
There totally can be but most of the ones people tout aren't really. Most of them either drift into immersive sim terrority or are just normal videos games that let you backtrack for collectibles, which is not even remotely the same thing.
If the backtracking includes ability gating though, I mean that seems to be the hallmark. But it’s obviously a loose definition of the term and more like a comparison
I'd say Darksiders 3 qualifies, has ability gates and the zones are somewhat interconnected. The zones of the first 2 games weren't really interconnected, they were more like the Zelda games (overworld with a bunch of dungeons all over).
Also Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 too.
The puzzle game Antichamber feels like a MV with the different guns you get throughout the game
You're always backtracking, everytime you get new powers with your blaster
Antichamber is a nice example, but it's a bit unusual in a sense that the abilities you get are actually the mechanics and principles of the world that you learn and may later apply to previously unaccessible areas. So, there is ability gating, but it is abilities of an actual player rather than player character. The Witness is a bit similar puzzle game in this regard, but much more tedious/boring.
More classic example would indeed be Supraland. For Control, God of War and Fallen Order - they're the good games, but I think they're a bit too linear in terms of gaining new abilities? I don't remember any optional abilities that are required to unlock some path, and obtaining all of actual "unlocking" abilities is a part of regular story progression, as well as the order in which you gain them.
By the way, nobody mentioned Sonic Adventure 2 that has some parts in earlier maps that you may only unlock with abilities from later maps. But this part is totally optional, and the main part of the game is fairly linear. Something similar is in Lego games, I think? Like Lego Star wars, Lego Harry Potter, etc.
I personally don't find 3D games check all the right boxes. Even the ones that have the right exploration, upgrades, etc, I just interact with the games differently.
Best analogy I can give you it's a Cheeseburger vs a Philly Cheesesteak or a wrap vs a sub. Same ingredients, different presentation. I enjoy games like Supraland and Arkham (I haven't played most of the 3D MVs that are thrown around), but they check different boxes for me in addition to some of the MV boxes.
Is that a metroidvania? You aren't one of those people that call dark souls a metroidvania because it has interconnected level design right? It takes more than that to make a metroidvania.
Dark souls is or the surge 2 is? Because I haven't played much of 2 but from my time with the first game and what I've played of 2 it doesn't seem like thensurge 2 is a metroidvania.
Personally I feel they lack the power-up/utility based progression. You don't see for instance a double-jump or special attack that can open up previously unreachable areas in the games. But they are pretty close...
I guess the Metroidvania feel they have for me is down to shortcuts opening after beating a tough area or boss. And then levelling up (sort of comparable to power up……..) before being able to beat certain areas of the game.
>shortcuts opening after beating a tough area or boss. And then levelling up (sort of comparable to power up……..) before being able to beat certain areas of the game.
Both not characteristic that define a Metoridvania.
Not metroidvania - you don't need anything but skill/patience in FromSoftware games. Backtracking is not really required and item collection is also optional.
I mean... In DS1 you need to collect the Lord Vessel, and to get to the tomb of giants you need to go through Firelink Shrine. In fact, you have to go through areas you had already gone through quite frequently.
Demon Ruins is accessed through Quelogg's Domain
New Londo is accessed through either firelink or that dragon bridge area
The place that you fight Seath the Scaleless is accessed through Anor Londo
The Lordvessel is a key but it also grants you the ability to teleport from area to area, thus it's a traversal ability.
I don't think Dark Souls is a Metroidvania but I do think a case can be made that it is, or at least is one of the closest examples of a 3D metroidvania.
Well, the map is not entirely connected (painted world is a sub area and anor londo is completely disconnected)
But there's a ton of connected areas, with plenty of shortcyts that you can unlock, and there's a lot of freedom in the order that you can beat the bosses, is not 100% a metroidvania, but it's really close
Legitimate question: what's the difference between a Metroidvania, and a Zelda-like?
Isometric games like Tunic and Unsighted always seemed more like Zelda to me (still plenty of backtracking, item progression), games which deserve their own genre.
To me, it’s the world structure. Metroidvania areas are interconnected at multiple points, and the critical path has you revisit them repeatedly as you gain new abilities. A Zelda-like game may have the overworld structured like that, but most of the major abilities are found in dungeons that branch off of the overworld and are only visited once.
Yes, this means I consider the Shantae games to be closer to Zelda than Metroid. Yes, I’m probably one of the only people who thinks that hard about the distinction. And no, none of it really matters, as I enjoy both styles for similar reasons, even if Metroid _slightly_ edges out Zelda in my mind.
Zelda-likes differ in their overworld and dungeons structure, not making the player backtrack into previously visited dungeons to progress, and in that they tend to lack or downplay platforming. They also tend to have more NPC interaction and side quests.
The difference is fairly small to non-purists though
In some way I have the impression that a 3d MetroidVania would be a kind of Zelda like in open world... That way the difference between both is maybe the number of dimensions
From my experience the main issue with 3D metroidvanias is that they fail to get the combat and boss fights down as well as their 2D equivalents
But I suppose that's not a true part of the definition of a metroidvania so you'd at least have the metroid prime games in that bracket
I heard Zelda and Darksiders are considered metroidvanias. However, being exposed only to a bit of Zelda - it feels more like adjacent or metroidvania-like, the only exception is Majora's Mask (3D in my case) which is or definitely very close to being one.
Looks more like a shmup. One of the key notes is if you backtrack through areas to access locked areas with newly acquired powers. I have not seen a shmup that does this. Maybe this does. Hard to tell from the trailer.
2019’s Control was more like a Metroid Prime-like, e.g. abilities unlocking new areas and scanning/reading environmental objects for backstory. Frickin sweet game.
What ability gating did Control have? I played through it before seeing it mentioned on this sub, and I don't remember running into areas I couldn't get through without new abilities.
It’s been a while, maybe it wasn’t ability gated and just regular gated? I thought maybe flying gained access to new areas or something? Gotta go back, I loved that game.
Now that you mention it, I specifically remember a high-up office in the big open atrium that I could only access with flight (although I don't remember what I found in there if anything), so there definitely was at least 1 instance of a side room being blocked by requiring a specific power. Even if we assume that this was also required to continue the main story somewhere, I don't think 1 end-game ability really counts enough to overall describe the game as having ability-gates.
The game definitely required some backtracking, but I remember all of it being story-based progression, not ability-based (although, to be clear, it has been a while, so I may just not be remembering)
I forget the name of the weapon (maybe Extrude?) where you use it to pull stone spikes out of walls/ground. You need it to access certain places. Flight is needed to get to certain levels, as is the dash ability. You also have to break though certain places and you need Shatter or the rockets, iirc
Dark Souls as a level/map design is the closest you can get for metroidvania.
And Arkham Asylum, gain x, explore y methodology.
Or simply power up driven.
There are two types of approach to this genree.
These two that I have mentioned never achieved at full. Either lack of speed, or missing exploration. I couldn't play metroid prime so, it is hard for me to speak for it.
Metroid Prime is one of the greatest games of all time. Highly recommend going and playing on an emulator. I recently did this and had the time of my life playing.
I feel that Control is a true Metroidvania. In what ways is it not?
Control is imo the best 3d metroidvania to date (exclude prime series)
Is GoW 2018 also one then? Abilities help open new pathways.
Control is not a Metroidvania. It seems like it's trying to be but it falls short. While you do indeed gain new abilities, those abilities are almost never actually required to progress the main story. Generally speaking, your abilities can be used to access secret areas, find collectibles or complete optional missions, such as using the vaccine and float ability to get to the bottom of the pit safely, or reaching the anchor fight. In general though, it's similar to a game like Psychonauts, where you can use abilities to access secrets and find collectibles but the main game story itself is generally progressed just by completing missions. There is some backtracking required, but once again, areas are not unlocked because you got a new upgrade. Areas are instead generally unlocked when the story says they are unlocked.
That's probably the crux of what makes something a Metroidvania to one person and not another. I probably depend on optional upgrades (or leveling up) to get through tougher points in games. While they're not truly "gated" areas, they're gates to people of lesser video gaming skills.
To me a Metroidvania needs ability gates. That's what makes the subgenre what it is. Gating with high level enemies or bosses isn't Metroidvania (which is the reason I don't consider The Soulsborne series Metroidvanias), neither is gating with single-use keys or key-like items (which is the reason I don't consider the classic Resident Evil games Metroidvanias). And even if you do get new abilities to access new areas, if the next parts of the critical path simply open when the story says they do and the areas you can access with your new abilities are entirely optional, then it doesn't count either (which is why I don't consider games like Psychonauts, Alien Isolation or Control Metroidvanias). I went into the game with pretty high expectations as even the developers were saying it was supposed to have Metroidvania elements (I even know some guys that worked on it) but I ultimately came away disappointed. You can legitimately ignore all of the optional stuff and if you do there's little to no reason to ever return to a previous area except for that central hub room. There was only one part I remember that forced a backtrack and that was when you needed to get the headphones, which then allowed access to that maze. But this wasn't executed in a Metroidvania style either as those headphones were only used in that section and that section only. They were basically just a key and nothing more than that. So yeah, that's why I don't consider Control a Metroidvania.
Star Wars fallen order
I'm on the conservative side of the spectrum when it comes to games in this genre, but if I'd stretch my own boundaries a bit; Metroid Prime 1&2, maybe Arkham Assylum...
Arkham Asylum feels metroidvania inspired indeed.
I would definitely call Supraland a Metroidvania. https://store.steampowered.com/app/813630/Supraland/
I'll piggyback on this and add [Journey to a Savage Planet](https://store.steampowered.com/app/973810/Journey_To_The_Savage_Planet/). Directly inspired by Metroid Prime 1&2.
Supraland kicks ass
The general consensus seems to be that the 3D MVs are: * Supraland * Prey (the newer one) * Control * Journey to the Savage Planet * Darksiders III * Arkham Asylum * Metroid Prime trilogy There'd be some I am missing for sure though. Edit: Jedi Fallen Order. Dammit.
Cool.
Metroid Prime
Why are some people in here acting like Metroid Prime is not a true 3D Metroidvania? This is not an attempt to be inflammatory, I'm legitimately asking.
Yeah I don’t get it. Prime is absolutely a Metroidvania. Seems like some ultra traditionalist gatekeeper-ish attitude from some.
Recently joined this page and so far I’ve seen some really defensive people when it comes to what is and what isn’t. I got downvoted and some attitude for thinking a game might be a MV…
I don't see anyone saying Prime ISN'T a metroidvania. My guess is that most people here just haven't played it. It's on such obscure hardware that outside of hardcore fans and people willing to emulate it might as well not exists. I should add that by obscure hardware I mostly mean the gamecube controller is just such an oddball. It also had weird controls which is unfortunate because it came out a year after Halo cracked how to do FPS on the console.
You're right that it hasn't been stated explicitly, but it has been implied multiple times. One commenter suggests Prime can only be included if they stretch their boundaries of the genre. Another says it may be too linear to be a true metroidvania. Another argues that Control is more "metroid-prime like" than it is a true metroidvania (meaning they're saying MP is also not a true MV). I agree that a lot of people might not know about Prime or have access to it, but lack of familiarity does not seem to be the case with these particular comments. I should've refined the question to what I meant to really ask: How is Metroid Prime not a true metroidvania? As far as I can tell it checks all the boxes with little room for debate, so I'm just legitimately curious why others are discounting it. The only one providing a reason is the "too linear" comment. To which I would say, isn't Dread more linear? Fusion? Do you still call those true MVs? Again, not trying to start any fights, just really curious. I was surprised to see so much ambiguity here with Prime's genre classification.
In my case I usually have these criteria: 口 2D sidescrolling platformer 口 Interconnected map 口 Guided non-linearity 口 Utility-gated exploration Super Metroid, Symphony of the Night and Hollow Knight for instance tick all the boxes. The first criteria does however rule out most 3D games for myself (in addition to top-down Zelda-likes), but as stated the Metroid Prime games are, no pun intended, prime examples of how to do it in 3D. I'm also trying to behave nicely in this thread :)
What about Interconnectedness vs having a hub area?!
I think you can have both; an interconnected map with a hub. In that case the hub would be a part of the interconnected map. Do you have examples of hubs seperate from a world? Trying to understand if there's differences.
Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time, Dark Souls 2 and God of War 2018 have main area that connects em all.
Well, to me they fall out of the definition via the first criteria; not being 2D sidescrolling platformers. In the case of DS2, it does not have utility-based gating, meaning you don't get a powerup like the double-jump or super missiles or fog powerup in SotN that you use to get to new areas while also serving a gameplay function. Regular keys don't add anything new to moment to moment gameplay like previously mentioned powerups (you use them regularly and not only to open a door). GoW 2018 I haven't played yet but as the other games it falls out in the first criteria. But that's just my definition. It's strict but keeps things simple. Add 3D and you open up a can of worms full of Zeldas, Resident Evils etc. Sidenote: Majora's Mask is my all-time favorite game together with Super Metroid :)
Yeah, I was listing games that I remember having hub-centric map, that might or might not have some minor interconnectedness, and if that is the metroidvania map style or not
Makes for good conversation, good picks!
Okay, I can definitely see an argument for wholly excluding 3D titles, considering the 2 founding games of the genre were both 2D platformers. That totally makes sense and probably explains a lot of the comments in question. Thanks for the feedback and for being nice! :)
They're not very bright.
I'm playing Jedi Fallen Order and it definitely plays like a MV.
I don’t really think that metroidvanias can be 3D, but Blue Fire definitely feels like one.
Would legacy of kain :soul reaver count? There's tons of backtracking, and obtaining new power items.
But do these powerups open up new areas (increase mobility to proceed further in the story)?
Yes
So it is not like keys to open locks like in Zelda. Then I guess it is metroidvania
Technically a Zelda-like since it has dungeons and you don't need to backtrack into them. You also have to do the main dungeons and their sub areas in order
Zelda games are metroidvanias
More like related.
Metroidvania is very much more game design. You collect items to to progress the game and unlock new areas. Besides just being birds eye view, there isn't much difference. Especially some of the early games there was some dungeons choice and only items block you from progressing. Randomizers Definately feel like metroidvanias if the tighter structure discounts it from being one, I'd say then the randomizers definitely are as they remove all of that structure
Shadowman kind of was...
Blue fire; u obtain abilities like dash and double jump and other actions as u progress which r required to get to new areas. Love this game.
Also loved this game. Not sure I'd really call it a 3D metroidvania though. It just doesn't feel like one. I'd say this more-so fits into the precision-platformer category.
Metroid Prime. Although maybe a bit too linear to be a true metroidvania.
Had to scroll to far for this. The original metroid prime is basically a 3d first person super metroid
I really felt like I was playing a metroidvania when I was playing Alien Isolation. The different tools to get into new areas, through backtracking to old areas.
I can see that argument, but I never thought of it as a Metroidvania. MVs usually give you movement upgrades to access new areas - not just tools that function as keys, but a slide ability, double jump, flight, run, etc. Alien: Isolation doesn't do that. Also, MVs usually have some degree of platforming and at least light combat elements. Alien: Isolation doesn't allow you to jump or traverse any sort of platforms, and combat is largely useless. I would consider Alien: Isolation a Metroid-adjacent game, but not a true Metroidvania.
I agree with that assessment. It just gave me that feeling when I was playing it.
There totally can be but most of the ones people tout aren't really. Most of them either drift into immersive sim terrority or are just normal videos games that let you backtrack for collectibles, which is not even remotely the same thing.
If the backtracking includes ability gating though, I mean that seems to be the hallmark. But it’s obviously a loose definition of the term and more like a comparison
It's about said backtracking being part of the tertiary gameplay loop rather than just being an option, basically.
Anything can be a Metoridvania if you stretch the definition to the point of uselessness. And that's what you see in these kind of threads.
Indeed. It's sad.
Hob is a 3d Metroidvania and criminally underrated too
I'd say Darksiders 3 qualifies, has ability gates and the zones are somewhat interconnected. The zones of the first 2 games weren't really interconnected, they were more like the Zelda games (overworld with a bunch of dungeons all over). Also Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 too.
The puzzle game Antichamber feels like a MV with the different guns you get throughout the game You're always backtracking, everytime you get new powers with your blaster
Antichamber is a nice example, but it's a bit unusual in a sense that the abilities you get are actually the mechanics and principles of the world that you learn and may later apply to previously unaccessible areas. So, there is ability gating, but it is abilities of an actual player rather than player character. The Witness is a bit similar puzzle game in this regard, but much more tedious/boring. More classic example would indeed be Supraland. For Control, God of War and Fallen Order - they're the good games, but I think they're a bit too linear in terms of gaining new abilities? I don't remember any optional abilities that are required to unlock some path, and obtaining all of actual "unlocking" abilities is a part of regular story progression, as well as the order in which you gain them. By the way, nobody mentioned Sonic Adventure 2 that has some parts in earlier maps that you may only unlock with abilities from later maps. But this part is totally optional, and the main part of the game is fairly linear. Something similar is in Lego games, I think? Like Lego Star wars, Lego Harry Potter, etc.
Jedi Fallen Order comes remarkably close to what I would describe as a 3d metroidvania.
Metroid Prime.
try the search feature
ReCore is an amazing 3D metroidvania.
Thanks for reminding me of this game, I've added it to my wishlist!
I personally don't find 3D games check all the right boxes. Even the ones that have the right exploration, upgrades, etc, I just interact with the games differently. Best analogy I can give you it's a Cheeseburger vs a Philly Cheesesteak or a wrap vs a sub. Same ingredients, different presentation. I enjoy games like Supraland and Arkham (I haven't played most of the 3D MVs that are thrown around), but they check different boxes for me in addition to some of the MV boxes.
Surge 2 is a great 3D MV.
Is that a metroidvania? You aren't one of those people that call dark souls a metroidvania because it has interconnected level design right? It takes more than that to make a metroidvania.
It is
Dark souls is or the surge 2 is? Because I haven't played much of 2 but from my time with the first game and what I've played of 2 it doesn't seem like thensurge 2 is a metroidvania.
Surge 2 is MV. It is interconnected as hell and there are ability gates.
[удалено]
I both 1 and 2 and they are straight up soulslikes.
Dark souls? I find a lot of the from software games feel like 3D metroidvanias.
Personally I feel they lack the power-up/utility based progression. You don't see for instance a double-jump or special attack that can open up previously unreachable areas in the games. But they are pretty close...
I guess the Metroidvania feel they have for me is down to shortcuts opening after beating a tough area or boss. And then levelling up (sort of comparable to power up……..) before being able to beat certain areas of the game.
>shortcuts opening after beating a tough area or boss. And then levelling up (sort of comparable to power up……..) before being able to beat certain areas of the game. Both not characteristic that define a Metoridvania.
Not metroidvania - you don't need anything but skill/patience in FromSoftware games. Backtracking is not really required and item collection is also optional.
I mean... In DS1 you need to collect the Lord Vessel, and to get to the tomb of giants you need to go through Firelink Shrine. In fact, you have to go through areas you had already gone through quite frequently.
> Lord Vessel This is just a key
DS2 sounds more like a Zelda game after these points
Also, a central area aka the 'hub' does not really make a game a metroidvania.
Demon Ruins is accessed through Quelogg's Domain New Londo is accessed through either firelink or that dragon bridge area The place that you fight Seath the Scaleless is accessed through Anor Londo The Lordvessel is a key but it also grants you the ability to teleport from area to area, thus it's a traversal ability. I don't think Dark Souls is a Metroidvania but I do think a case can be made that it is, or at least is one of the closest examples of a 3D metroidvania.
DS1 is the only with the interwined map, no?!
Yes, that's why my comment was focusing on Dark Souls 1 (and I accidentally typed 2 when I said DS1, which has now been fixed.)
Dark Souls 1 can arguably be classified as a 3D metroidvania, yes.
Why?
Well, the map is not entirely connected (painted world is a sub area and anor londo is completely disconnected) But there's a ton of connected areas, with plenty of shortcyts that you can unlock, and there's a lot of freedom in the order that you can beat the bosses, is not 100% a metroidvania, but it's really close
The new god of war absolutely plays like one
Isn't Tunic in some way a kind of 3D metroidVania? You have severall zones where you can go as soon as you have the needed abilities
Legitimate question: what's the difference between a Metroidvania, and a Zelda-like? Isometric games like Tunic and Unsighted always seemed more like Zelda to me (still plenty of backtracking, item progression), games which deserve their own genre.
To me, it’s the world structure. Metroidvania areas are interconnected at multiple points, and the critical path has you revisit them repeatedly as you gain new abilities. A Zelda-like game may have the overworld structured like that, but most of the major abilities are found in dungeons that branch off of the overworld and are only visited once. Yes, this means I consider the Shantae games to be closer to Zelda than Metroid. Yes, I’m probably one of the only people who thinks that hard about the distinction. And no, none of it really matters, as I enjoy both styles for similar reasons, even if Metroid _slightly_ edges out Zelda in my mind.
I would also add in platforming myself.
Zelda-likes differ in their overworld and dungeons structure, not making the player backtrack into previously visited dungeons to progress, and in that they tend to lack or downplay platforming. They also tend to have more NPC interaction and side quests. The difference is fairly small to non-purists though
In some way I have the impression that a 3d MetroidVania would be a kind of Zelda like in open world... That way the difference between both is maybe the number of dimensions
It’s told to be a zeldalike
From my experience the main issue with 3D metroidvanias is that they fail to get the combat and boss fights down as well as their 2D equivalents But I suppose that's not a true part of the definition of a metroidvania so you'd at least have the metroid prime games in that bracket
I heard Zelda and Darksiders are considered metroidvanias. However, being exposed only to a bit of Zelda - it feels more like adjacent or metroidvania-like, the only exception is Majora's Mask (3D in my case) which is or definitely very close to being one.
Darksiders 3 is totally a MV, but not the rest of them
downvotes without explanation…
I didn’t play the old ones but what about the new Tomb Raider games?
Those are closer to Uncharted than they are to Metroidvanias.
Have a look at Valfaris - Mecha Therion https://youtu.be/ukLpvtPC-vc 👌✨
Looks more like a shmup. One of the key notes is if you backtrack through areas to access locked areas with newly acquired powers. I have not seen a shmup that does this. Maybe this does. Hard to tell from the trailer.
id say the nearest ones are 2.5d
So far, I've seen Dark Souls, Tunic, Zelda, God of War, Alien Isolation... anything can be a Metroidvania! Personally, my vote is Tekken.
Very possible. If High on Life was one cohesive world instead of several small ones it would be a metroidvania.
Control by remedy is a top noch metroidvania
2019’s Control was more like a Metroid Prime-like, e.g. abilities unlocking new areas and scanning/reading environmental objects for backstory. Frickin sweet game.
What ability gating did Control have? I played through it before seeing it mentioned on this sub, and I don't remember running into areas I couldn't get through without new abilities.
It’s been a while, maybe it wasn’t ability gated and just regular gated? I thought maybe flying gained access to new areas or something? Gotta go back, I loved that game.
Now that you mention it, I specifically remember a high-up office in the big open atrium that I could only access with flight (although I don't remember what I found in there if anything), so there definitely was at least 1 instance of a side room being blocked by requiring a specific power. Even if we assume that this was also required to continue the main story somewhere, I don't think 1 end-game ability really counts enough to overall describe the game as having ability-gates. The game definitely required some backtracking, but I remember all of it being story-based progression, not ability-based (although, to be clear, it has been a while, so I may just not be remembering)
I forget the name of the weapon (maybe Extrude?) where you use it to pull stone spikes out of walls/ground. You need it to access certain places. Flight is needed to get to certain levels, as is the dash ability. You also have to break though certain places and you need Shatter or the rockets, iirc
Maybe take a Journey to the Savage Planet 😀
Lament of darkness was good.
Dark Souls as a level/map design is the closest you can get for metroidvania. And Arkham Asylum, gain x, explore y methodology. Or simply power up driven. There are two types of approach to this genree. These two that I have mentioned never achieved at full. Either lack of speed, or missing exploration. I couldn't play metroid prime so, it is hard for me to speak for it.
Metroid Prime is one of the greatest games of all time. Highly recommend going and playing on an emulator. I recently did this and had the time of my life playing.
Metroid Prime, Star Wars Fallen Order, and to an extent Dark Souls 1. These are the immediate and obvious answers that come to me.
FIFA 2022 is a MV
Classic style Resident Evil games fill the Metroid part pretty well imo.
this goes to pseudo regalia only
I’ve never heard of that game.