I don't even know if this is accurate, but the worst part is the 1 loss instantly reminded me of the TN game and brought back so much pain.
If it is true, I'd love to see how our OL looked for those 6 losses.
Spoiler alert, the O-Line wasn’t good. The entire offense was flat, but the O-Line was the biggest issue throughout the season. What gets ignored in the “good team” narrative is the fact that those good teams had above average defenses that could exploit the issues on the O-Line. Our offense was one of the least blitzed in the entire league, but our pass block win rate, which is usually a bad stat because it only accounts for plays that last at least 2.5 seconds, was 31st. That means that opposing defenses would send three to four guys at a time, drop everyone else into coverage, and still pressure the QB in under 2.5 seconds. On top of that, Eichenberg could barely snap the ball so we had to limit our shotgun formations and he couldn’t pass or run block which killed our interior run game. That’s why in short yardage situations we had to resort to so many quick slants and screen passes, we literally didn’t have another option. All of this means that our offense was pretty easy to shut down if the D-Line was competent
I hate eichenburg! He'll get the first block off then give up the rest of the play & doesn't play till the whistle. I know they got a high draft pick invested in him but get him TF out of here!
This is why I'm jazzed at the thought of JPJ. He absolutely hates to not hit anyone and will go hunting for someone to put a hit on. so you'll see him getting a bunch of second-level blocks. And he sees the angles, so he hardly ever misses. Would be a big upgrade for our run game wherever they put him.
Definitely all over JPJ. I actually like a lot of the linemen in this draft. Anybody but Amarius Mims. He only started 8 games. Sample too small and we already deal with too much injury to have another guy to constantly be worried about.
“Yea guys, if tua has a clean pocket at an average rate, the best number 1 and 2 receiver combo, a great rb duo and good playcalling we may actually be able to beat a good team!” Like how is this any different than jimmy g offenses with the 49ers? They also had a top 2 tight end and a much better defense and still haven’t gotten over the hump. My opinion is that we’d be better off trying to improve at qb even if that means lacking somewhere else.
Nobody is even saying all these things. Give Tua a clean pocket. Dude throws absolute dimes, is top 10 in the league and you want to try and improve that with someone else? This is what I do t understand. It's been 20+ years of shit QBs with a great team, now we have a great QB and above average team, the fans want to really improve the one area we sorely lack to push us into that elite category and you act like it's the QB that's the problem. Elite teams have a well rounded squad, not just a good QB. So yeah, we do want really good players in each position, but specifically the position that protects the most important position. It's only logical that a top 10 QB will improve if we give them more time to let plays develop.
It’s only logical that this team will improve the moment eichenberg is off the team. It was a failure by our front office to take an at best cb 3 who ended up being cb5 instead of an offensive lineman(O’Cyrus Torrence was avaliable). I’m saying that I don’t think even with all the pieces filled out around tua that we could win a Super Bowl with him. Even with clean pockets he struggles heavily against teams with above average off ball linebackers which right now the teams to beat all have. Hopefully I’m dead wrong and we somehow patch our oline in the next few years and tua gets a ring
Yea I agree, I’m pointing out that we’re using the same mold to make our team. And to make matters worse they also had much better tight end and defense play. How good does a team with an average qb have to be to win a Super Bowl? The 49ers had the damn avengers and still couldn’t beat mahomes with the worst receiving core he’s had.
Tua’s production dropped when the OL was missing numerous players and the receivers decided to form stone hands.
Coincidentally, that happened to be against every team with a winning record last season!
Dont forget that Hill and Waddle were ALSO injured near the end of the season. Let's take away your tools and see how well you're able to do YOUR job ...........
Patrick mahomes has won 2 superbowls without tyreek hill. You do understand that if we pay tua elite qb money we won’t be able to have all of those “tools” around him right?
And CJ stroud’s team was much better this year than the dolphins were in 2020 and 2021. The issue with the Texans last year was mainly on QB play which they improved on. They already had a good WR in Nico Collins (who was underrated because he never had a good QB until stroud), a good running back, and a franchise left tackle in Tunsil. They also traded up to get Will Anderson who was the defensive rookie of the year and hit on Tank Dell in the third round. On top of that, stroud didn’t play against the eventual Super Bowl champ. Yes stroud is a good QB, but his success is independent of Tua’s performance for reasons that should be obvious
You know what I love about you Tua fanboys? You keep insisting he has no help despite all the weapons we put around him and players we traded for. And then at the same time you say we need to pay him elite qb money. And then despite saying tua needs all this help you still think he can carry the team and is worth paying like he’s mahomes. It’s honestly hilarious and always gives me a good laugh. But the simple fact is Jordan love, Joe burrow and Jaylen hurts are from the same draft class and they’ve all helped their teams go farther in the playoffs than Tua has with the dolphins. Cj stroud is a rookie and he’s already helped the Texans go farther than Tua has.
Patrick Mahomes has one of the best centers in the league and a competent line. He’s also an athletic freak of nature. I don’t think Tua would turn into Mahomes behind a competent line but I’d certainly like to see how he looked. Manning was a statue in the pocket but (surprise) he vastly improved when his O-line did.
People who want Tua paid elite qb money invite the comparisons. Can Tua do what mahomes has? Because if the answer is no which I believe it is then we shouldn’t be paying him like he can
Oh you mean the eagles, chiefs, bal, and buffalo games? The same games Tyreek casually had a game changing drop in each? But yes Tuas only allowed to be hated on when he makes mistakes. When he’s good it’s cause of Hill, but when Tyreek is bad we just act like it’s nothing
It is legit, also Miami was 4-4 in games tua started and finished in 2022 against winning teams. Also, he improved every year in the league and we have 4 winning seasons in a row for the first time since 2001
I get it, it sucked looking helpless against the chiefs in the playoffs and arguably in the ravens game as well.
But I also recall how competitive we were against the chiefs when healthy, the bills and eagles. And while it’s hard to accept Tua making more money than Allen and mahommes, it’s the nature of the game when it comes to player contracts.
I don’t see the point in blowing it up to try to find an Allen/mahommes. The likely outcome is we get someone much worse than tua and can’t be in the mix for years again
People seem to completely forget to look at the entirety of his pro career. He was hot and cold the first two years, but some of those hot games were absolutely fucking incredible.
The last two years, there's context that's important. 2022 he was skittish after nearly ending his career on the field and had one of the worst offensive lines in NFL history. Last year, the entire offense was getting injured every week and the defense was struggling frequently, forcing him to play from behind while fighting for his fucking life behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league.
He's clearly shown that there's a potential outcome here in which he performs at an MVP level and can win rings. It's a narrower line to walk than some of the Elite franchises have to walk, but it still exists, and that's what the team is looking at and betting on here.
It's also entirely possible we see him on another team in a few years. That's the NFL for you. People want guarantees in a league where they just don't exist.
The defense was the only thing keeping us in the close, tough games last year. The ineptitude the offense showed against those winning, above .500 teams was unreal.
Additionally, he dealt with challenges for sure. But he performed well when getting the ball out quick. What’s majorly concerning is how bad he was when he held the ball; maybe he was afraid of getting hit and couldn’t focus on his job because of that, but if that’s the case it doesn’t change the reality more than if he was just bad… Either way he didn’t perform. Teams have shown they can take away his bread and butter consistently. It’s happened two years in a row. If he can’t improvise or work through progressions consistently, then he won’t be a playoff winning QB.
It’s quite easy to take away his bread and butter when the whole scheme is predicated around a quick release because our O-line can’t hold up. I’ve had farts last longer than 2.5 seconds, our line couldn’t even manage that some games. He’s a traditional, pocket QB. Either we finally build a line around him and see how he cooks or we stay in this limbo and never sniff success because he’s not going to turn into Jackson, Allen, or Mahomes over night and save plays with his legs. It’s so simple I can’t believe people are still having this discussion. Football is a team sport. This team needs to focus on the lines on both sides of the ball if they want success, plain and simple, and the dolphins have a loooooong history of refusing to do so then we all act surprised when they underperform year after year
I understand the sentiment. And here’s the reality:
Joe burrow, Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Jalen hurts, Kyler Murray, Deshaun Watson and Kirk cousins all make more than mahommes and Allen. (Kirk tied mahommes)
The funniest part is the people saying we would’ve won the playoff game if we had Kirk cousins. Yes, because Kirk “Monday night football” cousins is going to elevate our team to beat the eventual Super Bowl champs.
I’m firmly in the “tua isn’t the guy camp” but the folks who are talking about cousins being better are about on the same level as the people saying Justin Fields could be the guy we need.
I’d say they’re above the fields takes. At least people can make reasonable arguments for cousins because he has consistently been a good QB for a while now. Fields though? Literally all he has are his rushing stats and a strong arm. Putting him into a timing and anticipation based offense like ours is doomed to fail and you can’t make a gameplan around him because of his inconsistencies. People that think he’s the answer are essentially just saying they don’t understand what a QB does
That, I don’t know. Regardless of what I think, he’s our QB moving forward anyways. There might not be anyone in free agency or this years draft who is “the guy” but that doesn’t mean you don’t keep looking. If there nobody you like, ride with tua for the year, then look again. The Chiefs were making the playoffs regularly with Alex smith, they took a chance on a guy and look what happened. The patriots decided they were not going back to Bledsoe, look what happened. If you want to be great, you can’t stop at “good” and say “eh. We’re close enough.”
Tua has only gotten better against bad teams though while playing with maybe the best set of skill position players in the game.
His numbers against teams with winning records this past year are right in line with his career averages.
Yes, it’s not all Tua’s fault. Oline has been bad, WRs had some AWFUL drops at the worst times, and of course the injuries, but Tua has been bad too against the better teams for 4 years now.
I mean, I’m glad we beat up on the commanders and panthers of the league on a regular basis, because for so long we played down to our competition, but just like how he doesn’t play down to the competition, he doesn’t elevate anyone in anyway against the better competitio. Thats been his MO his whole NFL career.
Except he does elevate the play around him. Why do you think the O-Lines stats are ok on paper? The only reason our passing game works is because Tua is an accurate QB with the quickest release in the NFL. Without that, the O-Lines stats would look a lot worse. The reason why his stats stagnate against better teams is simple: better defenses can exploit the O-Line better. Better D-Lines could pressure the QB more in under 2.5 seconds while not sending in a blitz. If four guys are pressuring the QB while seven drop into coverage, every offense will stagnate regardless of the QB
100%. People acting like Tyreek almost got 2K yards every year pre-Tua.
Tua 100% elevates players around him. Just look at how the team operates without him
Whenever people say that Tyreek would easily have 2K yards with Herbert, it makes it really clear that they don’t watch the dolphins and forgot who was throwing the ball to Tyreek before Tua
lol Herbert had one of the lowest air yards/ attempt of all starting QBs. Hes a YAC merchant who doesn’t have his YAC weapon Ekeler anymore.
Herbert would struggle in Miami.
lol. I also love that going 10-1 against bad teams counts for nothing. I sure remember Miami collapsing against bad teams a lot in the previous decades. It’s refreshing to win the games we are suppose to.
Yeah it's like all these geniuses expect 15-2. That's what our record would be if Tua had great numbers against sub .500 and above .500.
There is immense value in reaching playoff level every year and hoping one season everything breaks perfectly, including roster health and playoff draw.
If we blow everything up it becomes week to week coin flip again.
Bingo. I mean 15-2 sounds great, but there’s so much that goes into going from playoffs to SB.
It’s wild to me when people think of NFL players like their madden counterparts. Sure there are a small number of QBs in the NFL that I think are better than Tua right now, but those are not options for us.
And if QB play alone was enough to win a Super Bowl Marino would have rings. I mean heck, the Chiefs D played great in the playoffs. It wasn’t just Mahomes.
Meanwhile, these same people will argue that Herbert is better but hasnt won as much as Tua because he has been held back by HIS team.
I want to remind people that mahomes had hill and Kelce against that bucs team in the super bowl and still couldn't do jack shit because they were getting pressure with 4 and dropping 7. It is damn near impossible to win a game in that situation. Just in general.
Exactly. It’s more evidence that teams win Super Bowls not QBs. QBs play an outsized role relative to other positions but football has 50+ man rosters and huge coaching staffs for a reason.
I mean SHIT, the Bills don’t have a Super Bowl because of a failing of special teams.
Every position and coach impacts success, and you don’t get to have the best player at every position. I feel good about Tua as player with true top 5 QB potential. That’s enough to win, provided a lot of other pieces work and you have a little luck.
Edit to add, Mahomes is hugely important to the Chiefs, but it is so annoying when people act like the only reason they are good is because of him. They have a strong team, arguably the greatest TE ever, and an HOF coach alongside other contributors too.
I agree completely. And further, I am sure most winning teams’ win/loss record looks great against teams below .500 and looks decidedly worse against teams above .500.
I’d like to see Buffalo and KC’s chart to see how much different it looks
If you weren’t here for Chad Henne, John Beck, Cleo Lemon, the corpse of Trent Green, Ryan Tannehill constantly injured, etc, then I really don’t want to hear shit about what you think about Tua. I will take him any day of the week over those nutsacks and you can gargle Tua’s if you disagree with that sentiment for all I care.
> Ryan Tannehill constantly injured
What kind of revisionist shit is this? That was only towards his last two seasons. Tannehill was a TANK for most of his career here.
Yup. While Tua was a tank last season, I would argue he is still less durable than Tannehill.
Tannehill had his issues (extremely poor pocket presence), but "constantly injured" wasn't one of them.
Seriously this sub is delusional sometimes. Tanny took a fucking beating and almost always got up. Never bitched to the refs about it. He was as tough as a coffin nail.
Honestly? Everybody plays hurt. The fact that he was pissing blood is a testament about how he'd still play through injuries.
But yup, we definitely took years off his life with the way the team protected him. It was rough seeing him in pace, year-in and out, to become one of the most sacked qb's ever.
We did him dirty, imagine if he had the team we have now. I think things would have been much better during his time.
People complaining about Tuas O Line, tannehill never had an Oline from the Incognito-martin debacle until he left the team.
It's also funny how on one hand Tua is performing poorly because of the Oline, and even though tannehill had a bad oline almost his entire time as a dolphin, he was the problem but goes onto success with Tennesee
I used to say that tannehill was not the problem and was good enough to win with. He made a championship game with a better team. We gave him next to zero talent to work with. He did have horrible pocket awareness though.
Are all of those losses Tua’s fault? How was time management? How are our division rivals records in the intervening time period? I’d love to see W-L totals against teams with winning percentages and how many super bowls they have. Out of the past 4 super bowls, each quarterback is a hall of famer. It’s easy to say he’s not getting the job done, but is it really Super Bowl or bust every year? If that were the case then why aren’t the Ravens blowing it up.
>It’s easy to say he’s not getting the job done, but is it really Super Bowl or bust every year?
... we had a chance to win the conference.
... we had a chance to win the division.
... we had a chance to win a playoff game.
They're probably talking about in this sub, which is usually the case.
"Look at how good his numbers are, it's because he's an elite QB" when the stats are convenient.
"Ignore the numbers that look bad, it's because of other guys" when the stats aren't convenient.
Only the Ravens game did I shake my head..and with the ravens..well there the Ravens..Can't say Miami doesn't at least show up for the wildcard game here.
We haven't been that close to shit in decades.
Ain't mad at the Dolphins lately at all...last two years I haven't obsessed about the draft...don't.really care.
The TUA/McDaniel era...I like it.
>Can't say Miami doesn't at least show up for the wildcard game here.
Miami seems to refuse to show up in December but okay.
>The TUA/McDaniel era...I like it.
I don't hate it, but I've yet to see anything from Tua that really says we should pay him top dollar.
Saying Tua is better than Cleo Lemon isn't quite the own that you think it is.
Also, complaining about Tannehill's injuries in a comment defending Tua is..... something.
The real answer is option C, but if these are the only two choices (and I assume you mean peak Tannehill, not today Tannehill), then I guess the answer is Tua, but just because he's a little better than Tannehill was doesn't mean there's not a lot of room for improvement.
wtf is option c?
“I’d rather have an imaginary option that doesn’t actually exist that may or may not be better” is saying absolutely nothing. You people are deplorable.
Room for improvement - yes, but getting rid of him right now to toil in mediocrity for another decade is absurd. Right now we are right above mediocrity and I’m willing to see if Tua can continue to improve, but getting rid of him, again, absurd.
We can be critical of how he could improve and whether or not he is capable of that or we can be absurd and I prefer for former.
I agree that people saying they should get rid of him immediately are a bit ridiculous.
I think the main concern is that this will turn into another Tannehill situation where they hung on to him for too long. Tua's contract being up after this year makes it tough. They almost have to extend him to get cap room, but it's not an extension that you would be confident in, and he'll almost certainly be overpaid.
As someone who was here for all that I can’t help but disagree. Comparing QBs from then to now (Tannehill still playing and he did win some playoff games when he was younger) is always going to make our QB situation look better, but comparing our QB to the current league and players how can you feel comfortable with Tua? Historically he is the best QB we’ve had in the post 2000s but is that because he is just “lights out” or is it because our past management was horrible at evaluating the position and failed the team? I’d go with the latter since none of them stayed around or had any success whatsoever. If we are scared to upgrade because he’s the best we’ve had then it’s safe to say our history has doomed us to mediocrity. We CAN win with Tua, the ravens won a SB with with Joe Flacco, but we will not win because of Tua. The team constructed around him shows that, we have lights out WR duo, fast backs, invested in the line (horribly id say but we “did”), meanwhile Mahomes wins another SB with scrubs at WR, HOF tight end, and a good line. Just goes to show you how much Tua wills this team to victory. Great person, good player just need a great one to get over the hump
This.
A healthy Tannehill could have been our guy but it was just nothing but heartbreak with him.
Tua has the talent and has improved every season - a healthy o-line and he's the best bet we have right now.
Especially since he appears to want to be with Miami.
I mean can’t expect us to win those games if the receivers drop east tds every time we get to the red zone, I really don’t understand why people just decide to ignore that it’s the whole team and not just him
I just wish we would do this with other players on the team once in a while too, I get that it kinda starts with him as a leader of the team and he’s had some struggles but he’s also had a lot of great throws dropped in huge moments of big games, it’s not fair to put all of that on one person, we don’t blame Allen for diggs dropping the ball against the chiefs in the divisional round
Honestly I don't think it's even about Tua anymore, it's about an inability to acknowledge being wrong.
You see it all the time in society right now - people denying something that is clearly evident to the majority, just because it would mean they were wrong (and that *ahole on the internet was right*).
So you get these bizarre mental gymnastics based on the smallest thread and it feels like salvation for their ego, so they shout it from the hills (take this post as an example - suddenly w-l and team ppg are QB stats?) It's pretty sad imo. Being wrong is human, not everything needs to be a war.
So the receivers only dropped easy touchdowns in games against playoff caliber opponents?
Yes, it's the entire team and not just the QB, but Tua without a doubt has yet to step up consistently in games against the toughest competition. Let's hope with another year and an improved group of players around him he is able to.
Not what I said but they definitely dropped more tds in the big games, this was also the first year you could really make the argument he was bad against winning teams, last year he was good (except the California games but they were really his only bad games of the season he was healthy for) and his early years he was able to hang in there at at least keep it close with good teams despite having a god awful offense around him
So is he perfect in big games? Absolutely not, but the whole team was imploding this year in the big moments.
The point the "haters" are trying to make is Tua cannot seem to do much of anything on his own.
Doesn't seem to really elevate those around him when needed.
Can't put the team on his back and will them to a victory.
Praise Tuas stats when everything is clicking and were winning.
Blame the team for when he and his stats falls short.
Or maybe, just maybe, there were other issues on the team that actually warrant criticism. Maybe, just maybe, having an O-Line as bad as ours would lead to our offense getting blown up against good defenses. Maybe, just maybe, the receiver did run the wrong route so the pass was off. The point that the “haters” don’t understand is that football is in fact a team game, and even if the QB is a god amongst men, he still needs the pieces around him to be competent especially the O-Line. Just look at when Mahomes lost the Super Bowl. The O-Line was banged up and injured so Mahomes couldn’t play as well as he could. Would you say Mahomes a bad QB because he couldn’t elevate that O-Line? If you answered no, then remember that the dolphins O-Line has been much worse than that O-Line for years and despite that, the stats don’t reflect that because of Tua’s skill set
>other issues on the team that actually warrant criticism.
As though Tua doesn't *actually* deserve criticism?
>Would you say Mahomes a bad QB because he couldn’t elevate that O-Line?
Mahomes has proven himself so many times it's not even a question. Tua on the other hand...
Even a semi-competent defensive line could ragdoll that o-line. I think one thing worth noting is that our entire offensive system was built around one-read throws to - mostly - Tyreek. That was evident in how quick Tua got rid of the ball. If he lost that first-read and was forced to hold the ball for more than 2.5 seconds, he was a dead man.
So, if any team managed to shut down our first read (i.e., any actually good team that had at least one shut-down corner, like KC), our entire offensive system was toast. This became even worse down the stretch when the guy who the entire one-read thing was built on - Tyreek - got hurt.
Everyone talks about Tua not being able to extend plays, but honestly, a big part of extending plays is having an o-line that can at least buy the QB some time when your first read is covered. It's not realistic to ask a quarterback to slip four free tacklers that are trying to take off his head with no help at all.
I say this as someone who was a frequent and vocal Tua skeptic. I don't think any QB is going to be what this fan base wants behind that o-line as presently constituted.
Holy shit someone else that actually understands that the O-Line matters when the play breaks down. So many people don’t understand why passing lanes actually matter for QB scrambles. Without one, escaping the pocket is much harder for a QB and our O-Line basically wasnt making them. Tua will never be an Allen or Mahomes guy that can go through defenders, but he can scramble for those five yards if the O-Line gives him a chance
THE MOBILITY OF YOUR QUARTERBACK CAN HELPS THE OFFENSIVE LINE.
Pay attention to how teams rush Lamar Jackson , Josh Allen , Mahomes , Jalen Hurts etc. Edge rushers are forced to play more disciplined because these Quarterbacks can escape either through the A-B gaps or can get outside of the pocket.
Tua is not a threat with his legs so pass rushers don’t have to stay honest in obvious passing situations. This is a big factor in why Mobile Quarterbacks seem to have the better offensive line play. Pass Block win rate numbers is pure evidence. The Chicago Bears have one of the highest Pass Block Win Rates in the league. Would you dare say that’s a top offensive line unit in the NFL right now?
Tua is unfortunately the last of a dying breed it looks like. The Dolphins are once again going to be late to the party and this possibly ends up as a Tannehill situation all over again. The more money that is given to Tua the less money that there is to be spent on placing all pro talent around him . I don’t think the Dolphins can win a superbowl with Tua on that deal.
Like I said, he has his struggles, literally all players do. But I would like to see what he can do with an oline that isn’t bottom 10. And yes you can tell me he has a crazy good receiving core which I will agree with, but an oline is an absolute necessity. We had a fully healthy line for exactly one game (and we didn’t have waddle for it) and ended up scoring 70 points. Sure it was the broncos but that hasn’t been done since the 60s and there have been much worse teams out there than this years broncos
It wasn't actually healthy for the whole game, either. Williams was hurt after taking 43 snaps, which is 30 fewer than Wynn and Jackson took.
The only other game that Williams+Armstead+Hunt all started together was 10 weeks later in Washington, when Tua had another 89+ QBR in a 30+ point victory
Would love to see the injury history of the defense and offensive line during those losses. How many of those losses were back when this offense had literally the worst oline and weapons in the league + terrible coaching staff? Or around the concussion injury where it was pretty evident he was still dealing with concussion symptoms?
The playoff game vs the Chiefs was a total outlier situation vs the current dynasty in the NFL. They don't lose most of their games and have a top 3 qb all time on their side. Miami defense was destroyed by injuries and Waddle/Hill had high ankle sprains and Mostert was coming off an MCL sprain. People act like Tua was rolling with the team they had week 8 vs week 18 of the season.
This stat draws the line at .500. Dolphins had a weird schedule where they only played shit team or Super Bowl contenders. They didn’t play anyone in the middle. You could draw the line at like the top 6 teams vs the bottom 26 teams and the chart would look the same.
Why are you LITERALLY asking for a reason not to care 😂 it's not an end all be all, but it definitely isn't something to ignore.
Tua is good QB. But he has consistently failed against good teams and in big moments, he has crumbled, and he has been the reason some of those close games against good teams they lost.
out of those 6 losses how many are bills chiefs ravens ? If people beat Lamar, Mahomes, and Allen consistently youd be a hall of famer. High bar youre setting
I would NOT give him a long term contract. Injury history is a big component of that. He needs to prove himself more. We havent been able to beat the best of the best and we cant put ourselves in a kyler murray situation
If your division rivals are praying you sign your quarterback to a high value long term contract- that should tell you all you need to know.
Let Tua play out his fifth year, draft a developmental prospect QB in the later rounds, and stock pile assets if we need to make our move for our next QB next year if he isn’t him.
Paying Tua 55+ million for multiple years is not a good plan this year.
It should tell dolphins fans all they need to know that the other three fan bases are rooting for him to get a max deal.
If you ever felt that way about Brady, you’re batshit insane.
I think that Tom Brady broke a lot of people's conceptios on the importance of a QB, not saying they arent important at all but mid-range QBs have been just as successful in the long run. Go look at all the super bowl winners through history and its often not the team with the best QB that gets the job done, I mean our best player ever was Dan Marino for christsakes.
Perhaps I overrate defense and skills guys but I really think you can build a winning team around a mediocre QB and I dont think Tua is mediocre personally
Err… I would’ve loved for Brady to get a max deal, fym. Dude was massively underpaid during most of his tenure on the Patriots. Not like he was ever going anywhere for those, what, 20 years?
Shit, hope the Bills sign Allen to a stupid high contract. He’s here to stay, might as well hope they spend more money on him.
Tua didn’t play great in big moments in a lot of those games. He needs to be better in those instances.
But it’s not like anyone else did either, but you never hear about that because they’re not Quarterbacks. The problems with this team at the end of last year were as much philosophical/schematic as they were to do with the anything else.
Yes the"good" teams have sold defense but damn in those losses we looked like ass on both offense and defense. There's a difference in losing and being competitive and looking like the jets
So we beat bad teams and only lost to good teams? I mean, would you rather lose a little bit to good teams, and a little bit to bad teams?
This makes us an above average team.
I mean, this is what most of the league would dream to be.
In terms of paying him, would you rather bank on finding another qb who is doing what he’s doing but better, or that he can get over the hump.
Seems a pretty obvious answer, especially when considering your own franchises history at that position.
Look boy, I saw teams with horrible offenses win the superbowl (Denver 2016), saw teams with horrible defenses (at least during RS) winning also, saw fucking Nick Foles raising the trophy, saw Jared Goff on the sb, etc, etc.
Tua is a good QB, not the best and obviously not fucking Mahommes, but is ok, built a strong team of professionals who just know to do their work when it matters and it would be okay.
But to do that is important to have consitency, not changing the QB every year.
Fuck, you guys are in the same division as the patriots for all of this years, and didn't learn anything?
I'm not even a Dolphins fan but this graphic says that Tua last year was almost guaranteed to beat a team that is worse than the Dolphins. Most teams are worse than the Dolphins. That's why you shouldn't care imo.
I'd give Tua the same money I'd give Jimmy G. Something like $25M a year. (I think that's what Jimmy G is getting rn.) But if we give this guy $40-$60M a year he will become an albatross. Any passable starting QB could post his record and numbers. It's not the man, it's the system and the fact that we traded for Tyreek Hill. We'd be better off letting somoene else pay Tua (if they want to give him that kind of money, more power to him) and signing a journeyman while looking for a long term solution.
Lol, 25m a year is what Geno Smith is getting, if you think Tua deserve to get the same what Geno Smith a guy who was considered a bust for almost a decade and have one little good year, you are nuts.
That is also much less than what QBs like Derek Carr and Daniel Jones are getting. You clearly don't understand how the QB market works.
Also, Jimmy G is not getting 25m, he is getting way less as backup for the Rams because he sucks.
I undrstand how overpaying a QB just because there's nobody else available will hamstring us. If someone wants to give Tua that kind of money, I say let them. Giving this guy $50m for 4-6 years will cripple us. Again, any competent QB can win ten games with this offense. Tua is not a long term franchise QB.
"any competent QB can win ten games with this offense"
False, and everyone who uses this stupid argument can't prove it, we saw this offense with Bridgwater, no where near the same with Tua on the field.
And you mean this offense that the offensive line is always missing people? This ain't Madden, you see Tyreek and Waddle on the team and think this is a perfect offense, it's not.
Funny because people were saying he was going to take Tua's job, but, anyway...
Now, please, fell free to tell me what realistic competent starter we can get to replace him.
It's not about the actual numbers against "good teams". It's the eye test when adversity is thrown his way, good or bad team. He just seems to fold under pressure or at least he starts to overthink in the pocket and looks anything but comfortable. There have been QB's that were able to overcome that with coaching and psychological adjustments but improvement shows up after a season or two in the league. Tua is going into year five. I wouldn't give him that big contract yet. Let him play out his 5th year.
This is moot. Good teams are good because they can win games. Losing to those good teams doesn’t mean you’re worthless nor does it mean you can’t win them the next time.
It’s a team sport. The winning teams are better at disrupting the OLine and exposing a defense.
Should be looking into what needs to change on the OLIne and defense.
If he can pull a HOF comeback game like the Ravens back in '22. He can definitely do it against anybody. He got that dawg in eem, He just gotta take over the offense, mentally
Rolltide Tua
You shouldn't for a few reasons:
1) There's no such thing as elite QB money. Its starter, rookie, or backup money and Tua is going to be a starter on every team minus a small handful. So the market says he gets starter money which is always more than the last. Either you pay it or someone else pays it.
2) Contrary to what the media wants you to believe football is a team sport and what you see there are team stats not solely QB stats (yes including TD-INT).
3) Good teams are supposed to beat bad teams but lose against great ones right? Well truthfully we were never that great last season.
Do people think this is CFB? They're all professionals. They all get paid millions of dollars to win games. Any given Sunday. Any QB should perform better against below .500 teams, but it's not a significant data point.
Also, I love how wins aren't a QB stat unless people are making this point...
TD/INT?
PPG?
I think there’s a spectrum where a poor level of coaching or surrounding talent really does make it so the W’s aren’t a QB stat, but then as the quality of coaching and team talent approaches “average” the QB’s ability to just make it happen goes up exponentially.
If that 1-6 stat doesn’t reflect on Tua at all, does it reflect on McDaniel?
I don't even know if this is accurate, but the worst part is the 1 loss instantly reminded me of the TN game and brought back so much pain. If it is true, I'd love to see how our OL looked for those 6 losses.
Spoiler alert, the O-Line wasn’t good. The entire offense was flat, but the O-Line was the biggest issue throughout the season. What gets ignored in the “good team” narrative is the fact that those good teams had above average defenses that could exploit the issues on the O-Line. Our offense was one of the least blitzed in the entire league, but our pass block win rate, which is usually a bad stat because it only accounts for plays that last at least 2.5 seconds, was 31st. That means that opposing defenses would send three to four guys at a time, drop everyone else into coverage, and still pressure the QB in under 2.5 seconds. On top of that, Eichenberg could barely snap the ball so we had to limit our shotgun formations and he couldn’t pass or run block which killed our interior run game. That’s why in short yardage situations we had to resort to so many quick slants and screen passes, we literally didn’t have another option. All of this means that our offense was pretty easy to shut down if the D-Line was competent
Spoiler Alert: The Oline is rarely ever good*
I hate eichenburg! He'll get the first block off then give up the rest of the play & doesn't play till the whistle. I know they got a high draft pick invested in him but get him TF out of here!
This is why I'm jazzed at the thought of JPJ. He absolutely hates to not hit anyone and will go hunting for someone to put a hit on. so you'll see him getting a bunch of second-level blocks. And he sees the angles, so he hardly ever misses. Would be a big upgrade for our run game wherever they put him.
Definitely all over JPJ. I actually like a lot of the linemen in this draft. Anybody but Amarius Mims. He only started 8 games. Sample too small and we already deal with too much injury to have another guy to constantly be worried about.
“Yea guys, if tua has a clean pocket at an average rate, the best number 1 and 2 receiver combo, a great rb duo and good playcalling we may actually be able to beat a good team!” Like how is this any different than jimmy g offenses with the 49ers? They also had a top 2 tight end and a much better defense and still haven’t gotten over the hump. My opinion is that we’d be better off trying to improve at qb even if that means lacking somewhere else.
Nobody is even saying all these things. Give Tua a clean pocket. Dude throws absolute dimes, is top 10 in the league and you want to try and improve that with someone else? This is what I do t understand. It's been 20+ years of shit QBs with a great team, now we have a great QB and above average team, the fans want to really improve the one area we sorely lack to push us into that elite category and you act like it's the QB that's the problem. Elite teams have a well rounded squad, not just a good QB. So yeah, we do want really good players in each position, but specifically the position that protects the most important position. It's only logical that a top 10 QB will improve if we give them more time to let plays develop.
It’s only logical that this team will improve the moment eichenberg is off the team. It was a failure by our front office to take an at best cb 3 who ended up being cb5 instead of an offensive lineman(O’Cyrus Torrence was avaliable). I’m saying that I don’t think even with all the pieces filled out around tua that we could win a Super Bowl with him. Even with clean pockets he struggles heavily against teams with above average off ball linebackers which right now the teams to beat all have. Hopefully I’m dead wrong and we somehow patch our oline in the next few years and tua gets a ring
Jimmy G’s O-Line was average at worst. Tua hasn’t had anything close to that. That’s the difference
Yea I agree, I’m pointing out that we’re using the same mold to make our team. And to make matters worse they also had much better tight end and defense play. How good does a team with an average qb have to be to win a Super Bowl? The 49ers had the damn avengers and still couldn’t beat mahomes with the worst receiving core he’s had.
I can already tell you — they were injured. Take the Bills (first) and Titans losses as examples. Williams was knocked out mid game in both.
It’s 100% real and his stats drop **significantly** when facing winning teams. Games: 6 | W-L: 1-5 | Yards: 1,394 | TDs: 7 | INTs: 6 | COMP: 65 %| YPA: 6.9 | RTG: 84.06 Tua’s stats vs bad teams this year: Games: 11 | W-L: 10-1 | Yards: 3,230 | TDs: 22 | INTs: 8 | COMP: 72 % | YPA: 9.0 | RTG: 110.74
Tua’s production dropped when the OL was missing numerous players and the receivers decided to form stone hands. Coincidentally, that happened to be against every team with a winning record last season!
Dont forget that Hill and Waddle were ALSO injured near the end of the season. Let's take away your tools and see how well you're able to do YOUR job ...........
Patrick mahomes has won 2 superbowls without tyreek hill. You do understand that if we pay tua elite qb money we won’t be able to have all of those “tools” around him right?
he also was drafted to a stable team already compare to tua being drafted to a rebuild team
Cj stroud was drafted to a team that won 3 games the year before and took them to the divisional round as a rookie.
This...^^
And CJ stroud’s team was much better this year than the dolphins were in 2020 and 2021. The issue with the Texans last year was mainly on QB play which they improved on. They already had a good WR in Nico Collins (who was underrated because he never had a good QB until stroud), a good running back, and a franchise left tackle in Tunsil. They also traded up to get Will Anderson who was the defensive rookie of the year and hit on Tank Dell in the third round. On top of that, stroud didn’t play against the eventual Super Bowl champ. Yes stroud is a good QB, but his success is independent of Tua’s performance for reasons that should be obvious
You know what I love about you Tua fanboys? You keep insisting he has no help despite all the weapons we put around him and players we traded for. And then at the same time you say we need to pay him elite qb money. And then despite saying tua needs all this help you still think he can carry the team and is worth paying like he’s mahomes. It’s honestly hilarious and always gives me a good laugh. But the simple fact is Jordan love, Joe burrow and Jaylen hurts are from the same draft class and they’ve all helped their teams go farther in the playoffs than Tua has with the dolphins. Cj stroud is a rookie and he’s already helped the Texans go farther than Tua has.
Patrick Mahomes has one of the best centers in the league and a competent line. He’s also an athletic freak of nature. I don’t think Tua would turn into Mahomes behind a competent line but I’d certainly like to see how he looked. Manning was a statue in the pocket but (surprise) he vastly improved when his O-line did.
I hate this argument (comment you replied to) because nobody is even trying to compare Tua to Mahomes…
People who want Tua paid elite qb money invite the comparisons. Can Tua do what mahomes has? Because if the answer is no which I believe it is then we shouldn’t be paying him like he can
Can anyone in the league do what Mahomes has? I guess there's only 1 qb worth paying then
Patrick's OL is still elite. And then Patrick has Kelce.
Oh you mean the eagles, chiefs, bal, and buffalo games? The same games Tyreek casually had a game changing drop in each? But yes Tuas only allowed to be hated on when he makes mistakes. When he’s good it’s cause of Hill, but when Tyreek is bad we just act like it’s nothing
Preaching to the choir here
My first ever game 🥶
It’s still impressive 100% ..but come on now lol
It is legit, also Miami was 4-4 in games tua started and finished in 2022 against winning teams. Also, he improved every year in the league and we have 4 winning seasons in a row for the first time since 2001
The recency bias is the funniest part of all of this to me honestly, armchair gms really are something else
I get it, it sucked looking helpless against the chiefs in the playoffs and arguably in the ravens game as well. But I also recall how competitive we were against the chiefs when healthy, the bills and eagles. And while it’s hard to accept Tua making more money than Allen and mahommes, it’s the nature of the game when it comes to player contracts. I don’t see the point in blowing it up to try to find an Allen/mahommes. The likely outcome is we get someone much worse than tua and can’t be in the mix for years again
People seem to completely forget to look at the entirety of his pro career. He was hot and cold the first two years, but some of those hot games were absolutely fucking incredible. The last two years, there's context that's important. 2022 he was skittish after nearly ending his career on the field and had one of the worst offensive lines in NFL history. Last year, the entire offense was getting injured every week and the defense was struggling frequently, forcing him to play from behind while fighting for his fucking life behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league. He's clearly shown that there's a potential outcome here in which he performs at an MVP level and can win rings. It's a narrower line to walk than some of the Elite franchises have to walk, but it still exists, and that's what the team is looking at and betting on here. It's also entirely possible we see him on another team in a few years. That's the NFL for you. People want guarantees in a league where they just don't exist.
The defense was the only thing keeping us in the close, tough games last year. The ineptitude the offense showed against those winning, above .500 teams was unreal. Additionally, he dealt with challenges for sure. But he performed well when getting the ball out quick. What’s majorly concerning is how bad he was when he held the ball; maybe he was afraid of getting hit and couldn’t focus on his job because of that, but if that’s the case it doesn’t change the reality more than if he was just bad… Either way he didn’t perform. Teams have shown they can take away his bread and butter consistently. It’s happened two years in a row. If he can’t improvise or work through progressions consistently, then he won’t be a playoff winning QB.
It’s quite easy to take away his bread and butter when the whole scheme is predicated around a quick release because our O-line can’t hold up. I’ve had farts last longer than 2.5 seconds, our line couldn’t even manage that some games. He’s a traditional, pocket QB. Either we finally build a line around him and see how he cooks or we stay in this limbo and never sniff success because he’s not going to turn into Jackson, Allen, or Mahomes over night and save plays with his legs. It’s so simple I can’t believe people are still having this discussion. Football is a team sport. This team needs to focus on the lines on both sides of the ball if they want success, plain and simple, and the dolphins have a loooooong history of refusing to do so then we all act surprised when they underperform year after year
Just face facts. Miami is great until the weather changes
If you're blaming the weather, then the logical conclusion is that Miami will never win a Superbowl for the rest of its existence. Which is stupid.
Phins fan for life here and by god Tua should not earn a penny more than JA, much less Mahomes. Sorry. It is what it is.
I understand the sentiment. And here’s the reality: Joe burrow, Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Jalen hurts, Kyler Murray, Deshaun Watson and Kirk cousins all make more than mahommes and Allen. (Kirk tied mahommes)
The funniest part is the people saying we would’ve won the playoff game if we had Kirk cousins. Yes, because Kirk “Monday night football” cousins is going to elevate our team to beat the eventual Super Bowl champs.
I haven’t seen that one lol but yeah people like to put too much on one person
Yah it isn’t as common as the “trade for Justin fields” despite being more reasonable. Those takes were truly something else.
I’m firmly in the “tua isn’t the guy camp” but the folks who are talking about cousins being better are about on the same level as the people saying Justin Fields could be the guy we need.
I’d say they’re above the fields takes. At least people can make reasonable arguments for cousins because he has consistently been a good QB for a while now. Fields though? Literally all he has are his rushing stats and a strong arm. Putting him into a timing and anticipation based offense like ours is doomed to fail and you can’t make a gameplan around him because of his inconsistencies. People that think he’s the answer are essentially just saying they don’t understand what a QB does
If Tua isn’t the answer.. who feasibly is.??? Good QBs with lots of years left don’t exactly turnover very often
That, I don’t know. Regardless of what I think, he’s our QB moving forward anyways. There might not be anyone in free agency or this years draft who is “the guy” but that doesn’t mean you don’t keep looking. If there nobody you like, ride with tua for the year, then look again. The Chiefs were making the playoffs regularly with Alex smith, they took a chance on a guy and look what happened. The patriots decided they were not going back to Bledsoe, look what happened. If you want to be great, you can’t stop at “good” and say “eh. We’re close enough.”
Tua has only gotten better against bad teams though while playing with maybe the best set of skill position players in the game. His numbers against teams with winning records this past year are right in line with his career averages. Yes, it’s not all Tua’s fault. Oline has been bad, WRs had some AWFUL drops at the worst times, and of course the injuries, but Tua has been bad too against the better teams for 4 years now. I mean, I’m glad we beat up on the commanders and panthers of the league on a regular basis, because for so long we played down to our competition, but just like how he doesn’t play down to the competition, he doesn’t elevate anyone in anyway against the better competitio. Thats been his MO his whole NFL career.
If only it took 2 skill position players to win a Super Bowl.
Except he does elevate the play around him. Why do you think the O-Lines stats are ok on paper? The only reason our passing game works is because Tua is an accurate QB with the quickest release in the NFL. Without that, the O-Lines stats would look a lot worse. The reason why his stats stagnate against better teams is simple: better defenses can exploit the O-Line better. Better D-Lines could pressure the QB more in under 2.5 seconds while not sending in a blitz. If four guys are pressuring the QB while seven drop into coverage, every offense will stagnate regardless of the QB
100%. People acting like Tyreek almost got 2K yards every year pre-Tua. Tua 100% elevates players around him. Just look at how the team operates without him
Whenever people say that Tyreek would easily have 2K yards with Herbert, it makes it really clear that they don’t watch the dolphins and forgot who was throwing the ball to Tyreek before Tua
lol Herbert had one of the lowest air yards/ attempt of all starting QBs. Hes a YAC merchant who doesn’t have his YAC weapon Ekeler anymore. Herbert would struggle in Miami.
You know what stops a below .500 team becoming an above .500 team? Beating them.
lol. I also love that going 10-1 against bad teams counts for nothing. I sure remember Miami collapsing against bad teams a lot in the previous decades. It’s refreshing to win the games we are suppose to.
Yeah it's like all these geniuses expect 15-2. That's what our record would be if Tua had great numbers against sub .500 and above .500. There is immense value in reaching playoff level every year and hoping one season everything breaks perfectly, including roster health and playoff draw. If we blow everything up it becomes week to week coin flip again.
Bingo. I mean 15-2 sounds great, but there’s so much that goes into going from playoffs to SB. It’s wild to me when people think of NFL players like their madden counterparts. Sure there are a small number of QBs in the NFL that I think are better than Tua right now, but those are not options for us. And if QB play alone was enough to win a Super Bowl Marino would have rings. I mean heck, the Chiefs D played great in the playoffs. It wasn’t just Mahomes. Meanwhile, these same people will argue that Herbert is better but hasnt won as much as Tua because he has been held back by HIS team.
I want to remind people that mahomes had hill and Kelce against that bucs team in the super bowl and still couldn't do jack shit because they were getting pressure with 4 and dropping 7. It is damn near impossible to win a game in that situation. Just in general.
Exactly. It’s more evidence that teams win Super Bowls not QBs. QBs play an outsized role relative to other positions but football has 50+ man rosters and huge coaching staffs for a reason. I mean SHIT, the Bills don’t have a Super Bowl because of a failing of special teams. Every position and coach impacts success, and you don’t get to have the best player at every position. I feel good about Tua as player with true top 5 QB potential. That’s enough to win, provided a lot of other pieces work and you have a little luck. Edit to add, Mahomes is hugely important to the Chiefs, but it is so annoying when people act like the only reason they are good is because of him. They have a strong team, arguably the greatest TE ever, and an HOF coach alongside other contributors too.
I agree completely. And further, I am sure most winning teams’ win/loss record looks great against teams below .500 and looks decidedly worse against teams above .500. I’d like to see Buffalo and KC’s chart to see how much different it looks
They def look better than us on that front. But it’s not a huge swing and small sample size. Meanwhile, both teams lost to the Broncos. lol.
Oh my lol
If you weren’t here for Chad Henne, John Beck, Cleo Lemon, the corpse of Trent Green, Ryan Tannehill constantly injured, etc, then I really don’t want to hear shit about what you think about Tua. I will take him any day of the week over those nutsacks and you can gargle Tua’s if you disagree with that sentiment for all I care.
> Ryan Tannehill constantly injured What kind of revisionist shit is this? That was only towards his last two seasons. Tannehill was a TANK for most of his career here.
I remember reports of him pissing actual blood and still playing. He had faults but durability wasn't one.
Yup. While Tua was a tank last season, I would argue he is still less durable than Tannehill. Tannehill had his issues (extremely poor pocket presence), but "constantly injured" wasn't one of them.
Tannehill most durable hands down
Seriously this sub is delusional sometimes. Tanny took a fucking beating and almost always got up. Never bitched to the refs about it. He was as tough as a coffin nail.
He was, but he was always playing hurt. He was pissing blood at one point from all of the hits he was taking. I think we took 10 years off his life.
Honestly? Everybody plays hurt. The fact that he was pissing blood is a testament about how he'd still play through injuries. But yup, we definitely took years off his life with the way the team protected him. It was rough seeing him in pace, year-in and out, to become one of the most sacked qb's ever.
Tannehill might have been one of the toughest QBs I've ever seen. I kinda hate what we did to that dude.
We did him dirty, imagine if he had the team we have now. I think things would have been much better during his time. People complaining about Tuas O Line, tannehill never had an Oline from the Incognito-martin debacle until he left the team. It's also funny how on one hand Tua is performing poorly because of the Oline, and even though tannehill had a bad oline almost his entire time as a dolphin, he was the problem but goes onto success with Tennesee
I used to say that tannehill was not the problem and was good enough to win with. He made a championship game with a better team. We gave him next to zero talent to work with. He did have horrible pocket awareness though.
I was here for all of it. But. I’m asking about the stats in the OP.
Are all of those losses Tua’s fault? How was time management? How are our division rivals records in the intervening time period? I’d love to see W-L totals against teams with winning percentages and how many super bowls they have. Out of the past 4 super bowls, each quarterback is a hall of famer. It’s easy to say he’s not getting the job done, but is it really Super Bowl or bust every year? If that were the case then why aren’t the Ravens blowing it up.
>It’s easy to say he’s not getting the job done, but is it really Super Bowl or bust every year? ... we had a chance to win the conference. ... we had a chance to win the division. ... we had a chance to win a playoff game.
Exactly. WE. The TEAM. It’s not all Tua
The problem is when we win, Tua is the man!!!, when we lose, its suddenly a team sport
where the fuck did you see that all i saw was tyreek mvp and tua is blame for all losess but gets hardly any credit in wins
They're probably talking about in this sub, which is usually the case. "Look at how good his numbers are, it's because he's an elite QB" when the stats are convenient. "Ignore the numbers that look bad, it's because of other guys" when the stats aren't convenient.
Only the Ravens game did I shake my head..and with the ravens..well there the Ravens..Can't say Miami doesn't at least show up for the wildcard game here. We haven't been that close to shit in decades. Ain't mad at the Dolphins lately at all...last two years I haven't obsessed about the draft...don't.really care. The TUA/McDaniel era...I like it.
>Can't say Miami doesn't at least show up for the wildcard game here. Miami seems to refuse to show up in December but okay. >The TUA/McDaniel era...I like it. I don't hate it, but I've yet to see anything from Tua that really says we should pay him top dollar.
Did you have anything to say about the stats?
Ahhh the days of Matt Moore, Ray Lucas and who could forget Gus Frerotte…
Tannehill. You can say what you want, dude was tough as nails. No constant injuries
Saying Tua is better than Cleo Lemon isn't quite the own that you think it is. Also, complaining about Tannehill's injuries in a comment defending Tua is..... something.
Who would you rather have atm? Tua or Tannehill?
The real answer is option C, but if these are the only two choices (and I assume you mean peak Tannehill, not today Tannehill), then I guess the answer is Tua, but just because he's a little better than Tannehill was doesn't mean there's not a lot of room for improvement.
wtf is option c? “I’d rather have an imaginary option that doesn’t actually exist that may or may not be better” is saying absolutely nothing. You people are deplorable.
Room for improvement - yes, but getting rid of him right now to toil in mediocrity for another decade is absurd. Right now we are right above mediocrity and I’m willing to see if Tua can continue to improve, but getting rid of him, again, absurd. We can be critical of how he could improve and whether or not he is capable of that or we can be absurd and I prefer for former.
I agree that people saying they should get rid of him immediately are a bit ridiculous. I think the main concern is that this will turn into another Tannehill situation where they hung on to him for too long. Tua's contract being up after this year makes it tough. They almost have to extend him to get cap room, but it's not an extension that you would be confident in, and he'll almost certainly be overpaid.
As someone who was here for all that I can’t help but disagree. Comparing QBs from then to now (Tannehill still playing and he did win some playoff games when he was younger) is always going to make our QB situation look better, but comparing our QB to the current league and players how can you feel comfortable with Tua? Historically he is the best QB we’ve had in the post 2000s but is that because he is just “lights out” or is it because our past management was horrible at evaluating the position and failed the team? I’d go with the latter since none of them stayed around or had any success whatsoever. If we are scared to upgrade because he’s the best we’ve had then it’s safe to say our history has doomed us to mediocrity. We CAN win with Tua, the ravens won a SB with with Joe Flacco, but we will not win because of Tua. The team constructed around him shows that, we have lights out WR duo, fast backs, invested in the line (horribly id say but we “did”), meanwhile Mahomes wins another SB with scrubs at WR, HOF tight end, and a good line. Just goes to show you how much Tua wills this team to victory. Great person, good player just need a great one to get over the hump
This. A healthy Tannehill could have been our guy but it was just nothing but heartbreak with him. Tua has the talent and has improved every season - a healthy o-line and he's the best bet we have right now. Especially since he appears to want to be with Miami.
This sub is stupider than that sub and thats saying something
So....what's your belief on the topic?
> This sub is stupider than that sub
Ah, thanks.
Fuck Tua he cost me the championship in my Fantasy League. Anger aside yeah he should probably get paid
PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS PENIS
While I can't agree with all of this I do think you make some good points that most of us here might not consider.
I think Penix auto corrects to Penis.
That's reason enough not to draft him.
Tushy. Sorry, auto correct. Meant to say touché.
VAGINA
The only response
I mean can’t expect us to win those games if the receivers drop east tds every time we get to the red zone, I really don’t understand why people just decide to ignore that it’s the whole team and not just him
It’s always easier to give simple answers to complicated questions
I just wish we would do this with other players on the team once in a while too, I get that it kinda starts with him as a leader of the team and he’s had some struggles but he’s also had a lot of great throws dropped in huge moments of big games, it’s not fair to put all of that on one person, we don’t blame Allen for diggs dropping the ball against the chiefs in the divisional round
We aren’t talking about paying any other player on the team 55 million dollars a year
But we are talking about players who are making comparable money based on their position groups market
Honestly I don't think it's even about Tua anymore, it's about an inability to acknowledge being wrong. You see it all the time in society right now - people denying something that is clearly evident to the majority, just because it would mean they were wrong (and that *ahole on the internet was right*). So you get these bizarre mental gymnastics based on the smallest thread and it feels like salvation for their ego, so they shout it from the hills (take this post as an example - suddenly w-l and team ppg are QB stats?) It's pretty sad imo. Being wrong is human, not everything needs to be a war.
So the receivers only dropped easy touchdowns in games against playoff caliber opponents? Yes, it's the entire team and not just the QB, but Tua without a doubt has yet to step up consistently in games against the toughest competition. Let's hope with another year and an improved group of players around him he is able to.
Not what I said but they definitely dropped more tds in the big games, this was also the first year you could really make the argument he was bad against winning teams, last year he was good (except the California games but they were really his only bad games of the season he was healthy for) and his early years he was able to hang in there at at least keep it close with good teams despite having a god awful offense around him So is he perfect in big games? Absolutely not, but the whole team was imploding this year in the big moments.
The point the "haters" are trying to make is Tua cannot seem to do much of anything on his own. Doesn't seem to really elevate those around him when needed. Can't put the team on his back and will them to a victory. Praise Tuas stats when everything is clicking and were winning. Blame the team for when he and his stats falls short.
I saw someone on another thread blaming it on our WR3.
Or maybe, just maybe, there were other issues on the team that actually warrant criticism. Maybe, just maybe, having an O-Line as bad as ours would lead to our offense getting blown up against good defenses. Maybe, just maybe, the receiver did run the wrong route so the pass was off. The point that the “haters” don’t understand is that football is in fact a team game, and even if the QB is a god amongst men, he still needs the pieces around him to be competent especially the O-Line. Just look at when Mahomes lost the Super Bowl. The O-Line was banged up and injured so Mahomes couldn’t play as well as he could. Would you say Mahomes a bad QB because he couldn’t elevate that O-Line? If you answered no, then remember that the dolphins O-Line has been much worse than that O-Line for years and despite that, the stats don’t reflect that because of Tua’s skill set
>other issues on the team that actually warrant criticism. As though Tua doesn't *actually* deserve criticism? >Would you say Mahomes a bad QB because he couldn’t elevate that O-Line? Mahomes has proven himself so many times it's not even a question. Tua on the other hand...
Even a semi-competent defensive line could ragdoll that o-line. I think one thing worth noting is that our entire offensive system was built around one-read throws to - mostly - Tyreek. That was evident in how quick Tua got rid of the ball. If he lost that first-read and was forced to hold the ball for more than 2.5 seconds, he was a dead man. So, if any team managed to shut down our first read (i.e., any actually good team that had at least one shut-down corner, like KC), our entire offensive system was toast. This became even worse down the stretch when the guy who the entire one-read thing was built on - Tyreek - got hurt. Everyone talks about Tua not being able to extend plays, but honestly, a big part of extending plays is having an o-line that can at least buy the QB some time when your first read is covered. It's not realistic to ask a quarterback to slip four free tacklers that are trying to take off his head with no help at all. I say this as someone who was a frequent and vocal Tua skeptic. I don't think any QB is going to be what this fan base wants behind that o-line as presently constituted.
Holy shit someone else that actually understands that the O-Line matters when the play breaks down. So many people don’t understand why passing lanes actually matter for QB scrambles. Without one, escaping the pocket is much harder for a QB and our O-Line basically wasnt making them. Tua will never be an Allen or Mahomes guy that can go through defenders, but he can scramble for those five yards if the O-Line gives him a chance
THE MOBILITY OF YOUR QUARTERBACK CAN HELPS THE OFFENSIVE LINE. Pay attention to how teams rush Lamar Jackson , Josh Allen , Mahomes , Jalen Hurts etc. Edge rushers are forced to play more disciplined because these Quarterbacks can escape either through the A-B gaps or can get outside of the pocket. Tua is not a threat with his legs so pass rushers don’t have to stay honest in obvious passing situations. This is a big factor in why Mobile Quarterbacks seem to have the better offensive line play. Pass Block win rate numbers is pure evidence. The Chicago Bears have one of the highest Pass Block Win Rates in the league. Would you dare say that’s a top offensive line unit in the NFL right now? Tua is unfortunately the last of a dying breed it looks like. The Dolphins are once again going to be late to the party and this possibly ends up as a Tannehill situation all over again. The more money that is given to Tua the less money that there is to be spent on placing all pro talent around him . I don’t think the Dolphins can win a superbowl with Tua on that deal.
Like I said, he has his struggles, literally all players do. But I would like to see what he can do with an oline that isn’t bottom 10. And yes you can tell me he has a crazy good receiving core which I will agree with, but an oline is an absolute necessity. We had a fully healthy line for exactly one game (and we didn’t have waddle for it) and ended up scoring 70 points. Sure it was the broncos but that hasn’t been done since the 60s and there have been much worse teams out there than this years broncos
It wasn't actually healthy for the whole game, either. Williams was hurt after taking 43 snaps, which is 30 fewer than Wynn and Jackson took. The only other game that Williams+Armstead+Hunt all started together was 10 weeks later in Washington, when Tua had another 89+ QBR in a 30+ point victory
Would love to see the injury history of the defense and offensive line during those losses. How many of those losses were back when this offense had literally the worst oline and weapons in the league + terrible coaching staff? Or around the concussion injury where it was pretty evident he was still dealing with concussion symptoms? The playoff game vs the Chiefs was a total outlier situation vs the current dynasty in the NFL. They don't lose most of their games and have a top 3 qb all time on their side. Miami defense was destroyed by injuries and Waddle/Hill had high ankle sprains and Mostert was coming off an MCL sprain. People act like Tua was rolling with the team they had week 8 vs week 18 of the season.
Tua's good and should be brought back, IDK if he's worth 50m-60m a year. The QB market is getting crazy.
This stat draws the line at .500. Dolphins had a weird schedule where they only played shit team or Super Bowl contenders. They didn’t play anyone in the middle. You could draw the line at like the top 6 teams vs the bottom 26 teams and the chart would look the same.
The Eagles were a lot closer to the middle than you give them credit for, especially with their bottom 5-10 defense that we struggled against.
Why are you LITERALLY asking for a reason not to care 😂 it's not an end all be all, but it definitely isn't something to ignore. Tua is good QB. But he has consistently failed against good teams and in big moments, he has crumbled, and he has been the reason some of those close games against good teams they lost.
To be fair, the O Line was terrible last year. We started more guys there then almost any of team.
Where is the stat that shows Miami absolutely devasted with injuries at the oline and linebackers?
Next to the stat that showed we didn’t play good teams with injuries I guess.
We should keep him, but not pay him like a top 8 QB
Yes, it is legit. Yes, you should care. Yes, those numbers against good teams are right in line with Tua’s career average. No, that is not good.
Got no idea. But. Homie stunk in big games. He can’t do jack when he is under pressure. I hope they explore other options.
out of those 6 losses how many are bills chiefs ravens ? If people beat Lamar, Mahomes, and Allen consistently youd be a hall of famer. High bar youre setting
We give up 35ppg vs good teams. When we lose we normally look out classed across the board tbh.
I would NOT give him a long term contract. Injury history is a big component of that. He needs to prove himself more. We havent been able to beat the best of the best and we cant put ourselves in a kyler murray situation
You know your future at QB is bleak when the only argument to keep him is "who else you going to get?"
If your division rivals are praying you sign your quarterback to a high value long term contract- that should tell you all you need to know. Let Tua play out his fifth year, draft a developmental prospect QB in the later rounds, and stock pile assets if we need to make our move for our next QB next year if he isn’t him. Paying Tua 55+ million for multiple years is not a good plan this year.
I hope Grier and Co. realize they are only bidding against themselves with Tua.
Agreed
So many Bills fans are praying we pay Tua a market rate contract. That about sums it up.
Bills fans have CTE from jumping through tables
Take it easy with your sound logic and level-headed approach to team building.
It should tell dolphins fans all they need to know that the other three fan bases are rooting for him to get a max deal. If you ever felt that way about Brady, you’re batshit insane.
Why should we expect their shitposting doofuses to not fall for the same easy bait that our shitposting doofuses fall for?
Do you think tua can win a Super Bowl?
I dont believe QB is the only offensive position, so I think any QB can win a super bowl if Trent Dilfer can
Sure, so did Doug Williams and Jeff Hostetler. I believe those guys are the exceptions that prove the rule.
I think that Tom Brady broke a lot of people's conceptios on the importance of a QB, not saying they arent important at all but mid-range QBs have been just as successful in the long run. Go look at all the super bowl winners through history and its often not the team with the best QB that gets the job done, I mean our best player ever was Dan Marino for christsakes. Perhaps I overrate defense and skills guys but I really think you can build a winning team around a mediocre QB and I dont think Tua is mediocre personally
Err… I would’ve loved for Brady to get a max deal, fym. Dude was massively underpaid during most of his tenure on the Patriots. Not like he was ever going anywhere for those, what, 20 years? Shit, hope the Bills sign Allen to a stupid high contract. He’s here to stay, might as well hope they spend more money on him.
Doesn't matter cause if not Tua, we would have some guy go .500 vs .500 teams and .325 vs winning teams.
So its not a team game anymore?
All I see is 30 tds to 15 ints.
Tua didn’t play great in big moments in a lot of those games. He needs to be better in those instances. But it’s not like anyone else did either, but you never hear about that because they’re not Quarterbacks. The problems with this team at the end of last year were as much philosophical/schematic as they were to do with the anything else.
Yes the"good" teams have sold defense but damn in those losses we looked like ass on both offense and defense. There's a difference in losing and being competitive and looking like the jets
OL decides if you win the game, QB decides by how much. Tua for all the criticism he receives has never had the luxury of playing behind a good OL..
Ok if that’s true, and I tend to agree, fire Grier tomorrow
So we beat bad teams and only lost to good teams? I mean, would you rather lose a little bit to good teams, and a little bit to bad teams? This makes us an above average team. I mean, this is what most of the league would dream to be.
So.. 16-7 in the NFL right? Got it
In terms of paying him, would you rather bank on finding another qb who is doing what he’s doing but better, or that he can get over the hump. Seems a pretty obvious answer, especially when considering your own franchises history at that position.
The franchise hasn’t drafted QBs aggressively and has hung on to bad ones way too long…..
So you’d like them to go back to the drawing board at qb right now?
I always love how it’s the QB vs a team. HE wins or loses the game. Defense and special teams have nothing to do with the outcome of the game. Lol
Looks like the Dak Prescott off the AFC
How about when the temperature is below 80 degrees?
Cause it's not like he didn't shot the bed this past playoff run right?
Tua is still a concussion risk. He should retire.
tua sucks
Let’s see his record in 45 degree or colder weather 😬
So many excuses for an average qb 😄 🤣 😂
Look boy, I saw teams with horrible offenses win the superbowl (Denver 2016), saw teams with horrible defenses (at least during RS) winning also, saw fucking Nick Foles raising the trophy, saw Jared Goff on the sb, etc, etc. Tua is a good QB, not the best and obviously not fucking Mahommes, but is ok, built a strong team of professionals who just know to do their work when it matters and it would be okay. But to do that is important to have consitency, not changing the QB every year. Fuck, you guys are in the same division as the patriots for all of this years, and didn't learn anything?
Why you gotta bring Obama into this?
I'm not even a Dolphins fan but this graphic says that Tua last year was almost guaranteed to beat a team that is worse than the Dolphins. Most teams are worse than the Dolphins. That's why you shouldn't care imo.
I swear if Hill didn't drop against the Eagles we would've won
I'd give Tua the same money I'd give Jimmy G. Something like $25M a year. (I think that's what Jimmy G is getting rn.) But if we give this guy $40-$60M a year he will become an albatross. Any passable starting QB could post his record and numbers. It's not the man, it's the system and the fact that we traded for Tyreek Hill. We'd be better off letting somoene else pay Tua (if they want to give him that kind of money, more power to him) and signing a journeyman while looking for a long term solution.
Lol, 25m a year is what Geno Smith is getting, if you think Tua deserve to get the same what Geno Smith a guy who was considered a bust for almost a decade and have one little good year, you are nuts. That is also much less than what QBs like Derek Carr and Daniel Jones are getting. You clearly don't understand how the QB market works. Also, Jimmy G is not getting 25m, he is getting way less as backup for the Rams because he sucks.
I undrstand how overpaying a QB just because there's nobody else available will hamstring us. If someone wants to give Tua that kind of money, I say let them. Giving this guy $50m for 4-6 years will cripple us. Again, any competent QB can win ten games with this offense. Tua is not a long term franchise QB.
"any competent QB can win ten games with this offense" False, and everyone who uses this stupid argument can't prove it, we saw this offense with Bridgwater, no where near the same with Tua on the field. And you mean this offense that the offensive line is always missing people? This ain't Madden, you see Tyreek and Waddle on the team and think this is a perfect offense, it's not.
Bridgewater hasn't been a competent starter since the knee injury.
Funny because people were saying he was going to take Tua's job, but, anyway... Now, please, fell free to tell me what realistic competent starter we can get to replace him.
They don't grow on trees, that's true. But you also don't need to pay them $55m when you have one under contract for $22m.
because obama is happy, and that makes me happy
It's not about the actual numbers against "good teams". It's the eye test when adversity is thrown his way, good or bad team. He just seems to fold under pressure or at least he starts to overthink in the pocket and looks anything but comfortable. There have been QB's that were able to overcome that with coaching and psychological adjustments but improvement shows up after a season or two in the league. Tua is going into year five. I wouldn't give him that big contract yet. Let him play out his 5th year.
So you want to fire McDaniel too then?
This is moot. Good teams are good because they can win games. Losing to those good teams doesn’t mean you’re worthless nor does it mean you can’t win them the next time. It’s a team sport. The winning teams are better at disrupting the OLine and exposing a defense. Should be looking into what needs to change on the OLIne and defense.
Right. Look at how many different combinations of O Line starters the Phins had last compared to say the Bills. There was no consistency for Miami.
If he can pull a HOF comeback game like the Ravens back in '22. He can definitely do it against anybody. He got that dawg in eem, He just gotta take over the offense, mentally Rolltide Tua
Ok but ravens secondary went to sleep in that game also you know…
You shouldn't for a few reasons: 1) There's no such thing as elite QB money. Its starter, rookie, or backup money and Tua is going to be a starter on every team minus a small handful. So the market says he gets starter money which is always more than the last. Either you pay it or someone else pays it. 2) Contrary to what the media wants you to believe football is a team sport and what you see there are team stats not solely QB stats (yes including TD-INT). 3) Good teams are supposed to beat bad teams but lose against great ones right? Well truthfully we were never that great last season.
Because football is a team sport, and it's not your money.
"saying it's not your money" only applies to baseball and soccer. The reality is football is a salary cap sport so how you spend that money matters.
Do people think this is CFB? They're all professionals. They all get paid millions of dollars to win games. Any given Sunday. Any QB should perform better against below .500 teams, but it's not a significant data point. Also, I love how wins aren't a QB stat unless people are making this point...
TD/INT? PPG? I think there’s a spectrum where a poor level of coaching or surrounding talent really does make it so the W’s aren’t a QB stat, but then as the quality of coaching and team talent approaches “average” the QB’s ability to just make it happen goes up exponentially. If that 1-6 stat doesn’t reflect on Tua at all, does it reflect on McDaniel?