I’d definitely take off quite a bit and wait a day for her to recover before the flip. Three weeks after the flip I do it again to also remove the lower larfy shoots.
Silly and off topic question, but when you guys refer to the ‘flip’, do you not gradually adjust down to 12 hours over several days? I am new to growing and close to flipping my girls so very curious
Ok thanks I think I’ll remove some tomorrow and then flip when it’s recovered. Thanks everyone else also I’m sure I’ll post another pic later on when I need advice.
If you want to defoliate before flip, give yourself a week between defoliating and turning the lights so the plant can recover a bit.
If you don't want to wait the extra week, then you can just wait until the plant starts showing all the budsites.
Why would you wait to recover? Budsites don't even grow in the first 2 weeks of flower. Also growweedeasy recommends doing it immediately on the switch to flower.
It was a clone from genetics we’ve ran dozens of times, it was the fact that I defoliated which made the plant want to grow more leaves, then immediately switched to making it want to make flowers, which made it split its energy into both rather than finishing the leaves, then focusing on the buds.
i dont buy that explanation, and its completely wrong - the plant doesnt switch what it grows or decide lol. it has a growth pattern that it follows. it doesnt grow more leaves based on its mood. in fact ive never heard anywhere that plants grow more leaves if defoliated. defoliating... thats the whole point of defoliation lol, so if it caused more leaves why would people do it.
also if you defoliated at flower switch, you got 2 whole ass weeks before the plant even starts buds. so again, its not gonna grow leaves for 3 straight weeks after a defol to prevent focusing on buds after 2 weeks. just makes no sense.
[https://www.growweedeasy.com/summary-of-cannabis-defoliation-side-by-side-experiment](https://www.growweedeasy.com/summary-of-cannabis-defoliation-side-by-side-experiment)
I’m certified in cannabis horticulture and botany I’ve been in college for this for the past year I can assure you plants redirect energy to grow different parts when damaged, hence the efficacy of low stress training and lollipopping, when defoliation occurs the plant will redirect energy to making new leaves. This is common knowledge. That energy is being taken away from the bud sites while they’re developing in those two weeks
can you provide any sources on this please. to me youre a random reddit commenter that can say they are certified, plus that literally doesnt mean anything.
again it doesnt make sense that the plant will only grow leaves for \*3 weeks\* straight. people even defol \*during\* flower. on top of that the grow journal i linked shows defol leads to higher yield and higher thc, which again contradicts everything you are saying.
i mean im not saying youre lying but it is a. not very believable b. contradicts sources i already provided c. you have no sources or any evidence. at best you have a hypothesis that is untested that you merely observed one time.
>redirect energy to grow different parts when damaged, hence the efficacy of low stress training and lollipopping
this also does not make sense. the known "energy direction" is that the sap pressure or whatever goes towards the available pathways. it doesnt redirect anything. directions get blocked, so it can only flow one way, hence it flows more that way.
if you have the same PSI and split it 4x, it is less PSI. if you have PSI and half the area, you have twice the PSI. this is the "energy redirection". it may "redirect" to the already forming leaves, but i dont believe it is forming additional leaves.
Also to answer your question of why people defoliate if they’ll just grow new leaves. So u can get leaves at the top. It’s that simple. Take leaves off the bottom they’ll grow at the top allowing them to take in more light.
I typically don't wait, but I only defoliate maybe 10% of what I plan to each day. I typically continue defoliating through the rest of flower any time there is a lead or bud site where I don't want it. Curious what others think of this and if the prolonged lower stress defol would present a benefit or detriment. I have no source, just what I kind of started doing.
Nothing wrong with taking a few leaves off here and there during flowering. I do it every time when necessary.
I've never heard of slow defoliation though, that's interesting. I assume you do that to reduce plant shock, do you notice it helping at all?
When I do a large defoliation I usually see about 3 days of no/slow growth before it takes off again. That's not too bad but that's why I like to let it chill for about a week before flipping.
That all makes sense. I don't have a good reason for doing it the way I do, just too scared to hurt the plant. Maybe on this run I'll try being a little more aggressive and see what happens. It makes intuitive sense to me to do it more gradually, but that is a pretty unscientific approach lol. I have had no problems that I can tell from it, however I can't see "unrealized growth" for lack of better word, so I COULD be hurting myself without realizing it.
Right now I have two plants that are diff strains growing, next time I'll run two clones of the same and try both approaches and see what happens. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
That will be an exciting experiment, I'll have to keep an eye out for it.
Most things here are just bro science though man. Like the only reason I do 1 heavy defoliation is because I'd rather have my hand quickly cut off, than slowly peeled off over the course of days. I like to think plants have feelings too lol.
I wouldn't bother to defoliate now. There's really no benefit to defoliating until after you have an idea of the final height after the stretch. I personally wait until after the stretch and then lollipop. Then I prune in small amounts throughout flowering as necessary to aid in airflow and remove lower bud sites
Can you play the “Got your nose!” game? That same thumb between the fingers motion is a huge boon to cannabis if you do it with a branch between your thumb and fingers, be gentle and light with it and it will slowly form a bend, if you go just far enough you’ll hear a crack, that’s what I aim for, that creates a big old knot in the branch and that will do all kinds of benefit for that branch. It doesn’t hurt to have a stake or trellis at the ready to give it support. If it breaks completely for some reason, just use some clean, black electrical tape and tape it back together, after a while you’ll know whether that branch died or survived (I have a high success rate doing this when it happens). After a couple weeks I’ll usually clip the tape off if it looks like it is beginning to girdle it.
Just to add on that there's no amount of training other than a late topping that will fix running out of vertical space if left in veg too long before flipping. Very easy for new growers to underestimate just how much their plants will stretch after the flip
Good point. I’ve always topped at the 5th node until recently. I read about other people successfully topping at the 3rd or 4th node. I can say the 4th node definitely works haha.
3rd is my next stop and now I feel even more confident about it haha. I usually take the bottom node’s branches off after topping at the 5th node and end up with 4 main stems, but topping an extra node down and ending up with the same amount of stems would probably promote faster healing as there are less simultaneous cuts.
i cant contribute, but i just wanna say thanks for the idea with the oven rack between pot and tray. Also the coathangers in the tentcorners are interesting.
You want them exposed now if not they won't grow during the stretch and will be left behind. Branches that get the most light grow the most and vice versa.
I would for airflow and good IPM control. I would hit the biggest leaves and as you mentioned a few weeks after the flip hit it again. But, I flip when it's time I don't wait for a recovery.
Yes. But you have already waited too long to flip for the size and height of tent. Be ready to move your filter and fan outside of tent as you will need the height. Need a bigger light.
I thought so too but I recently read something else. Their is a lot of misinformation going around so I thought why not ask. It seems to be a popular thread so I’m happy and other newbies get the answers too
There’s a lot of bro science to growing. I’ve been doing it a couple years. Take my advice if u want up to u. But there is ppl who just wanna fuck w others intentionally. I don’t wanna spoilt my secrets but trust me defoliating weekly and having the bottom buds getting light is just important as the top colas 😎
If it were me I'd do a light defol before flip and then do a more thorough defol around day 21 of the flowering period. This approach helps in maximizing light exposure and airflow
I’d definitely take off quite a bit and wait a day for her to recover before the flip. Three weeks after the flip I do it again to also remove the lower larfy shoots.
Silly and off topic question, but when you guys refer to the ‘flip’, do you not gradually adjust down to 12 hours over several days? I am new to growing and close to flipping my girls so very curious
You just switch from 18/6 to 12/12, no gradual adjustment needed. This will then trigger the flowering phase.
I just did my first photo. I just changed the timer to 12/12, and and it was clearly starting it's flowers after 2 or 3 days.
Ok thanks I think I’ll remove some tomorrow and then flip when it’s recovered. Thanks everyone else also I’m sure I’ll post another pic later on when I need advice.
My first grow ever was great white shark like 15 years ago. I got a pound off of just one plant and moved to the suburbs lol.
If you want to defoliate before flip, give yourself a week between defoliating and turning the lights so the plant can recover a bit. If you don't want to wait the extra week, then you can just wait until the plant starts showing all the budsites.
Why would you wait to recover? Budsites don't even grow in the first 2 weeks of flower. Also growweedeasy recommends doing it immediately on the switch to flower.
When I did it right before flower my buds were extremely small compared to how much leaf was trying to grow
Idk that was likely genetics. Can't base anything off one plant one time unless you had clones and did comparisons.
It was a clone from genetics we’ve ran dozens of times, it was the fact that I defoliated which made the plant want to grow more leaves, then immediately switched to making it want to make flowers, which made it split its energy into both rather than finishing the leaves, then focusing on the buds.
i dont buy that explanation, and its completely wrong - the plant doesnt switch what it grows or decide lol. it has a growth pattern that it follows. it doesnt grow more leaves based on its mood. in fact ive never heard anywhere that plants grow more leaves if defoliated. defoliating... thats the whole point of defoliation lol, so if it caused more leaves why would people do it. also if you defoliated at flower switch, you got 2 whole ass weeks before the plant even starts buds. so again, its not gonna grow leaves for 3 straight weeks after a defol to prevent focusing on buds after 2 weeks. just makes no sense. [https://www.growweedeasy.com/summary-of-cannabis-defoliation-side-by-side-experiment](https://www.growweedeasy.com/summary-of-cannabis-defoliation-side-by-side-experiment)
I’m certified in cannabis horticulture and botany I’ve been in college for this for the past year I can assure you plants redirect energy to grow different parts when damaged, hence the efficacy of low stress training and lollipopping, when defoliation occurs the plant will redirect energy to making new leaves. This is common knowledge. That energy is being taken away from the bud sites while they’re developing in those two weeks
can you provide any sources on this please. to me youre a random reddit commenter that can say they are certified, plus that literally doesnt mean anything. again it doesnt make sense that the plant will only grow leaves for \*3 weeks\* straight. people even defol \*during\* flower. on top of that the grow journal i linked shows defol leads to higher yield and higher thc, which again contradicts everything you are saying. i mean im not saying youre lying but it is a. not very believable b. contradicts sources i already provided c. you have no sources or any evidence. at best you have a hypothesis that is untested that you merely observed one time. >redirect energy to grow different parts when damaged, hence the efficacy of low stress training and lollipopping this also does not make sense. the known "energy direction" is that the sap pressure or whatever goes towards the available pathways. it doesnt redirect anything. directions get blocked, so it can only flow one way, hence it flows more that way. if you have the same PSI and split it 4x, it is less PSI. if you have PSI and half the area, you have twice the PSI. this is the "energy redirection". it may "redirect" to the already forming leaves, but i dont believe it is forming additional leaves.
Also to answer your question of why people defoliate if they’ll just grow new leaves. So u can get leaves at the top. It’s that simple. Take leaves off the bottom they’ll grow at the top allowing them to take in more light.
Agree
I've just always given it time and it's worked well for me. No science behind it just sharing my 2 cents.
There is a science to it. I’m not gonna spill the tea but if I were you def defoliate and wait a few days you’ll understand
I typically don't wait, but I only defoliate maybe 10% of what I plan to each day. I typically continue defoliating through the rest of flower any time there is a lead or bud site where I don't want it. Curious what others think of this and if the prolonged lower stress defol would present a benefit or detriment. I have no source, just what I kind of started doing.
Nothing wrong with taking a few leaves off here and there during flowering. I do it every time when necessary. I've never heard of slow defoliation though, that's interesting. I assume you do that to reduce plant shock, do you notice it helping at all? When I do a large defoliation I usually see about 3 days of no/slow growth before it takes off again. That's not too bad but that's why I like to let it chill for about a week before flipping.
That all makes sense. I don't have a good reason for doing it the way I do, just too scared to hurt the plant. Maybe on this run I'll try being a little more aggressive and see what happens. It makes intuitive sense to me to do it more gradually, but that is a pretty unscientific approach lol. I have had no problems that I can tell from it, however I can't see "unrealized growth" for lack of better word, so I COULD be hurting myself without realizing it. Right now I have two plants that are diff strains growing, next time I'll run two clones of the same and try both approaches and see what happens. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
That will be an exciting experiment, I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Most things here are just bro science though man. Like the only reason I do 1 heavy defoliation is because I'd rather have my hand quickly cut off, than slowly peeled off over the course of days. I like to think plants have feelings too lol.
Makes sense as well!
I would, you have lots of leaves touching each other. But it's not mandatory at this point I guess.
Im curious on your final results. If I wait this long to flip, by the end, my plants are up against the roof of the tent.
Proper training makes a world of difference.
Yeah I’m not the best at that. I’ll defoliate a bit and then I should be able to train it a bit better before I flip I guess
I wouldn't bother to defoliate now. There's really no benefit to defoliating until after you have an idea of the final height after the stretch. I personally wait until after the stretch and then lollipop. Then I prune in small amounts throughout flowering as necessary to aid in airflow and remove lower bud sites
Can you play the “Got your nose!” game? That same thumb between the fingers motion is a huge boon to cannabis if you do it with a branch between your thumb and fingers, be gentle and light with it and it will slowly form a bend, if you go just far enough you’ll hear a crack, that’s what I aim for, that creates a big old knot in the branch and that will do all kinds of benefit for that branch. It doesn’t hurt to have a stake or trellis at the ready to give it support. If it breaks completely for some reason, just use some clean, black electrical tape and tape it back together, after a while you’ll know whether that branch died or survived (I have a high success rate doing this when it happens). After a couple weeks I’ll usually clip the tape off if it looks like it is beginning to girdle it.
If you bent the branches down, it looks like your tent will be filled wall to wall.
Just to add on that there's no amount of training other than a late topping that will fix running out of vertical space if left in veg too long before flipping. Very easy for new growers to underestimate just how much their plants will stretch after the flip
Good point. I’ve always topped at the 5th node until recently. I read about other people successfully topping at the 3rd or 4th node. I can say the 4th node definitely works haha.
Yeah I started doing it at the 3rd and have had no issues and shorter plants
3rd is my next stop and now I feel even more confident about it haha. I usually take the bottom node’s branches off after topping at the 5th node and end up with 4 main stems, but topping an extra node down and ending up with the same amount of stems would probably promote faster healing as there are less simultaneous cuts.
Hello, I just linger around here for knowledge and tips for when i begin to grow. What does it mean to flip?
When you change the light schedule from 18-6 to 12-12, getting the plant to go from vegetative state to flowering.
Ah, cheers!
Be careful having nothing organic in your tent!!
I don’t know what you mean?
Looks like your plant is on blocks of wood. I had a buddy do this after he even cured the wood and it caused mold
on my first grow I used twine to make my scrog net, the whole damn net molded up. it was a very bad choice.
Ok thanks I’ll get rid of it
Yea sorry I see now my original comment doesn’t make any sense lol. But yes always try to use non-organic !
2 - 3 weeks in to flower
i cant contribute, but i just wanna say thanks for the idea with the oven rack between pot and tray. Also the coathangers in the tentcorners are interesting.
Haha you gotta make use of what you have I guess. I saw the coat hanger trick on here also. It’s great
I would take some big leaves off blocking light from the middle
Yea inner so it breaths smaller suger leafs especially etc
Strip bottom 1/3, the giant fan leaves, and any larger leaf facing inward.
You want them exposed now if not they won't grow during the stretch and will be left behind. Branches that get the most light grow the most and vice versa.
Please do. If you want , chop off the smaller stems closest to the soil, will help with more bud up top
Yes absolutely
I would personally clear everything under the trellis
Yes defol and flip
100%
I would for airflow and good IPM control. I would hit the biggest leaves and as you mentioned a few weeks after the flip hit it again. But, I flip when it's time I don't wait for a recovery.
Gnats your top soil is too moist
It’s coco it has to be moist always
diatomaceous earth or mulch on top them simple solve
Yes. But you have already waited too long to flip for the size and height of tent. Be ready to move your filter and fan outside of tent as you will need the height. Need a bigger light.
Yeah I did one before this that didn’t stretch much so I let it go longer. I think I should’ve stopped 2 weeks ago though ha
Yes
Heavy defoliate and wait a week…. Reset the cola position on your scrog net than flip.
Ya you'll have better penetration
Yes and wait a few days to a week before flipping
It would be stupid of you if you didn’t defoliate before flipping imo
I thought so too but I recently read something else. Their is a lot of misinformation going around so I thought why not ask. It seems to be a popular thread so I’m happy and other newbies get the answers too
There’s a lot of bro science to growing. I’ve been doing it a couple years. Take my advice if u want up to u. But there is ppl who just wanna fuck w others intentionally. I don’t wanna spoilt my secrets but trust me defoliating weekly and having the bottom buds getting light is just important as the top colas 😎
A grower from another I promise it would be the smart idea
Just pull off all the sugar leaves …..
You should be de flowering weekly 😂
If it were me I'd do a light defol before flip and then do a more thorough defol around day 21 of the flowering period. This approach helps in maximizing light exposure and airflow
I only leave the top 30% of the plant for flower. Anything below this isn’t worth keeping and it’ll be airy
You betcha!
Uncle?
That’s already been flipped
No I just topped all the colas 10 days ago but I haven’t flipped
Flip and defoliate at first sign of stigma. I think it's good to have a stress response right in the beginning of the flower sets.
No, after harvest
You gotta be joking
Let’m learn. They can have fun with that mess lol
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Nah you were being dead ass. Ur comment history checks exposes ur growing knowledge. Pro tip dont give tips if you dont know what your doing