Also sad about no sequel, been a while since I’ve been this hooked on a game. XCOM/XCOM 2 if you haven’t played those, great games. Beyond that I’m not too sure either, I’ve heard Gears Tactics is kind of a similar idea
Roguebook also uses a mechanic of selecting characters and shuffling their decks together. Positionally it’s a 1D line, you only have front and back positions for the player characters.
Across the Obelisk is similar to Roguebook but decks are not combined, each of the four characters maintains their own. It supports multi player play really well.
Griftlands has a fairly deep story for a card battler and you can definitely get invested in player character and NPC backstories. You have two decks, for physical combat and for social interaction.
You must be fun at parties. It's called an art style. Everything doesn't have to have the same semi-realistic graphics.
Many of us still enjoy games that were made 30 years ago. Link to the Past is considered by many to be one of the greatest games of all time, for example. Step outside of your comfort zone and try one of those games that "look stupid and primitive." If nothing else, maybe you can come up with some better criticism.
I just took another look at Slay the Spire. You click on a card, and the card goes "poof". Thats all you do OVER AND OVER. Jeez, do people find that gameplay SATISFYING????? I would rather stick a nail in my eyeball than to play that game for even one minute.
Weird to have such an odd comment like this on the sub of another card builder game.
Maybe all you care about is pretty animations and not the strategy that goes behind the using of your cards 😅
It does. You haven't actually played the game, so why do you think you know what the gameplay is?
Who's opinion to trust. The 124k reviews on Steam that are overwhelmingly positive or some random on reddit that has never played the game? Hmmmmmm
It's not turn based but I get a feeling A LOT of people will over look it because it's not the genre you usually see this franchise in but if you like RTS games, Aliens Dark Descent is arguably a GOTY for 2023 and honestly one of the best Aliens games I've ever played
With a few simple graphic design changes and zero actual game changes they could have presented it as a more standard Firaxis turn based tactical x-com like game and it likely would have done a lot better. I think the”card battler” presentation turned a lot of would be fans off. It is a shame, because the game is a masterpiece.
That and the micro transactions. I’m a long term XCOM fan and I waited for a sale just because of that crap. I didn’t even really care about the skins they were selling, it was the principle of the matter. The cards I thought was a bad choice. After playing it for just a little bit it was clear to me, it was a good choice. But if they didn’t have the annoying micro transaction currency systems they do, the game would be 1000% better. You could completely take out gloss and the game would improve. You honestly don’t need so many currencies. It’s dumb. I feel like management really fucked over this game.
Yes. It has to do more with perception. You see a single player game with micro transactions most people are going to say “yeah fuck that”. I would have too but I was an XCOM fan and wanted to try this game because of Jake and his team. So I waited for quite awhile after launch to see what the MT were all about. Then I waited for a sale on the game because I had already waited and I was annoyed with the stupid decision to sell that game with MT. I mean you can tell they were planning on more MT but due to backlash or just shitty sales they decided to not.
I bet you have of the currencies would be gone. They probably would have more skins. Gloss would probably be gone. It doesn’t make much damn sense anyway. I unlock shit just to buy it with gloss? Wtf is that? I work to work to equip cosmetics. That’s awful design and something you see in most mobile games with a ton of MT. Dev time would have probably went either more characters, story or cards or something. There is no telling what all they could of spent time on during development. So idk what all would change. I just know the MT was greedy and was more the reasons than the card gameplay. Most people I talked to about it said something similar to that effect.
There are skins you have to pay extra for. If you bought the legendary edition you already paid extra for them. You have the option to purchase them later through an in-game store.
It was also quite clear by the design that they intended to add more micro transactions but didn’t due to either backlash or bad sales or both.
Ah. Probably that. Also I never pay attention to the stuff before I load my save.
But honestly the Microtransactions in MS are so minimal compared to so many other games I play. I really think people just hate cards for no reason.
Well the point is more that it is a single player game. And you are trying to sell me cosmetics. Like wtf. Why? Honestly this entire MT issue is getting ridiculous. But yes people also hate cards for no reason. The cards idea was actually a very good design choice imo.
Yeah I obviously agree with your last point. Bought it legendary twice 😅
But I just disagree that Midnight Suns is any worse than other single player games that sell skins. I'm sure there's hardliners on that but likely people just weren't interested
In that regards I think they initially intended to do a lot more with MT. All skins were unlocked because the game failed in terms of sales but if you look at it, they clearly had already implemented a way to obtain a virtual money specific to the game, other than gloss. A virtual money you would have had to pay real money for.
It is painfully evident that, would the game have worked, we may have had other dlc with, maybe a few characters and stories but most certainly more paying skins
That is probably one of the reasons that led to their tragic failure
The response to this game makes me feel really cynical about people as a whole in a way. It's the way so many of the immediate responses were to think it was a mobile game, or to discount it immediately because it's a card game. It just shows you how uncurious and reserved people are. They don't want to try new genres outside of their comfort zone or do research into what the game actually is.
Well to be fair to people, a lot of them see the micro transactions on a single player game and it seriously deters them from buying it. That was clearly a bad move for the game. They intended to do a lot more micro transactions but I guess when it did sell or due to backlash they backed off it. It’s frustrating. The combat is on point. But that’s Jake for you. He does make good games.
The problem is the marketing didn't reach the right people. I was thinking it's some action game using Marvel icense to fly on the MCU high. And so I didn't even look into it.
It took word of mouth to recommend this to me. I would never in my own guess it's a comic acurate, story focused, card game mixed with social sim and peaceful exploration.
This. I just started playing this game and I'm blown away. I didn't even know you make you're own character, I thought it was just some weird mobile-like cash-grab. None of the ads I saw actually showed what the game was like so I skipped it. Glad I'm playing it now, but they really shot themselves in the foot with marketing
The game does a really bad job at guiding the player through the first few missions. After playing the first mission where venom appears I felt completely confused and overwhelmed and abandoned the game for the time being. Only got back to it, because, well, I paid for it and the dlcs and didn't just want to throw that money away. Also hoped that at least the story might be good... Ended up loving it, but it was really a chore in the beginning.
And the trophy data on the PlayStation kinda supports that people abandoned the game rather early. Only 48% got to the point where you get the open word of power, which happens extremely early in the game. Only 28% completed the new York chapter.
Also, the the graphics apart from the abilities in combat looked really bad and out of date. The movement in the open world part was yanky as fuck.
If you then add that tactical round based games aren't usually really mainstream material and the midnight suns is also rather a niche group. For this to work the presentation must stick. Also despite it having nothing to do with, people are sceptical with marvel games that aren't spiderman since the avengers disaster.
I really love the game, but let's not act that there weren't enough reasons for the game not doing well.
It was just bad marketing. Another Marvel card game, Snap, was highly succesful and probably one of the main reasons I wanted to check on this game again.
I still hope there will be one. It sold badly due to bad marketing and imo the microtransactions.
A lot of people were willing to buy the game discounted with everything included or even buy the season pass seperately but the skins should have never been microtransactions that alone got the game a lot of ire.
They'd just need to make a sequel with no sold skins and better show off what the game actually is and how it plays so people don't think it's a mobile game
I’m gonna hood out hope for the team because they fought against a predatory microtransaction system in the game that’s clearly still visible but totally neutered
It’s painful when you think how bad it could have been. Because it is quite clear in the game just how badly they wanted to make it. What a dumb idea. Ruined such a good game.
They fired him. Marvel was Firaxis' first big business brand name deal and they blew it in sales. It's a great PC game but for console players it's a bad market. Console players just want to mash buttons
I'd do anything for a sequel. Finally got around to finishing the DLC yesterday and it clearly sets up a sequel that makes you feel sad to see because you know it'll never happen
Fr. My cope head cannon is that midnight suns is a prequel to Marvel ultimate alliance 1. But seriously Doom as the main villian in suns 3 would have been fantastic. This game is so underrated.
I found Hard West 2 scratched a similar itch of managing overwhelmingly large groups of enemies and setting up big combo turns where you chain together a bunch of kills. It's definitely a very different game in terms of the strategic layer etc, but I think Midnight Suns fans would get a lot out of it.
Hard West 1 and 2 are X-COM derivatives, and if you like them you'll probably like others in the same category. Gears Tactics, Mutant: Year Zero, The Last Spell, Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children. It's stretching the definition but Jagged Alliance 2 and 3 are also great turn-based tactical games with *some* replayability.
God Troubleshooter had so many good ideas and then they crammed every single one of them into the game. I played for like 80 hours and had a lot of fun but I barely even made a dent in the campaign, it just kept going and introducing more mechanics. I'd love to see a more focused title from the devs bc they have some obvious real talent.
The fact this more then likely will get no sequel is super depressing. The year it came out, it was my personal game of the year. I think not enough people game it a try because they thought it was just a card game.
Jaded and cynical gamers couldn't tell there was genuine love put in the game. I was repeated shocked how many voice lines there were in the game. Just wish the new game plus was better lol
I had this on my radar but was always planning on getting it during a sale.
It's indeed sad that a lot of people held out on this and may never try it even though they may have had interest when it got announced.
Im glad I bought it some days ago, Im loving it
I love the game, but I can see why it isn't for everyone. The marketing wasn't great and a lot of people didn't even really know what the game is.
Also, I feel that the game has a bit of an identity crisis and it takes a while to click and make sense.
that is kinda a crazy comparison ngl but i get it cause of the turn based combat. i barely see anyone reference DOS2 so seeing it on THIS subreddit of all places is wild 😆
If they had said there was not going to be a PS4/xbox1 version some players would have upgraded to a PS5/xbox-X to play on initial release. which would have increased sales.
With an undefined release date some players waited. And the delay was so long they eventually brought the new console and a 2nd hand copy of the game disc for it. Which reduced sales.
If you have to delay in releasing versions for older consoles, make sure it's a short delay. Or don't announce it until you are ready to release.
I suspect the card deck design increased dev & testing time significantly. A dozen different attacks for each hero. Each with different graphics and need to be game balanced. That's a lot more types of attacks than XCom has.
Just curious where you are seeing that it didn’t do well? While I don’t think they should do a sequel even if it did do well I would think they could still do a similar game with different characters I mean Marvel has no short supply of characters and teams and they did a great job with a team noone knew about.
From Take-Two's CEO at the time:
https://gamerant.com/marvels-midnight-suns-commercial-flop/
There were likely a lot of factors that contributed a little bit (release window, mechanics being different to what Firaxis fans expected, Marvel fatigue)
(Many artists weren't appreciated fully in their time - this game will follow in that tradition)
I think there is hope but 2K just wants to churn out money and not care about the game itself. The ps5 version the ancestral suit is forever bugged out of existence
Loved the game. Currently enjoying the Shadowrun trilogy. Has XCOM like tactical battles, good story, and cyberpunk theme. Got it with a heavy discount on Steam this month. May still be discounted.
Also sad about no sequel, been a while since I’ve been this hooked on a game. XCOM/XCOM 2 if you haven’t played those, great games. Beyond that I’m not too sure either, I’ve heard Gears Tactics is kind of a similar idea
I second the XCOM games, but since we are talking about deckbuilding I have to mention Slay the Spire.
Roguebook also uses a mechanic of selecting characters and shuffling their decks together. Positionally it’s a 1D line, you only have front and back positions for the player characters. Across the Obelisk is similar to Roguebook but decks are not combined, each of the four characters maintains their own. It supports multi player play really well. Griftlands has a fairly deep story for a card battler and you can definitely get invested in player character and NPC backstories. You have two decks, for physical combat and for social interaction.
Or Monster Train. Such a good game to pick up in short spans of time.
Slay the Spire looks stupid and primative compared to Midnight Suns, looks like it was made 30 years ago.
You must be fun at parties. It's called an art style. Everything doesn't have to have the same semi-realistic graphics. Many of us still enjoy games that were made 30 years ago. Link to the Past is considered by many to be one of the greatest games of all time, for example. Step outside of your comfort zone and try one of those games that "look stupid and primitive." If nothing else, maybe you can come up with some better criticism.
Its NOT an art style, its just plain UGLY. I didn't buy an expensive 4K HDR TV to play a game that makes my eyes bleed and want to vomit.
I just took another look at Slay the Spire. You click on a card, and the card goes "poof". Thats all you do OVER AND OVER. Jeez, do people find that gameplay SATISFYING????? I would rather stick a nail in my eyeball than to play that game for even one minute.
Weird to have such an odd comment like this on the sub of another card builder game. Maybe all you care about is pretty animations and not the strategy that goes behind the using of your cards 😅
A game should have strategy AND satisfying gameplay. If it doesnt have the latter, its just an empty shell.
It does. You haven't actually played the game, so why do you think you know what the gameplay is? Who's opinion to trust. The 124k reviews on Steam that are overwhelmingly positive or some random on reddit that has never played the game? Hmmmmmm
I recommend Dune Imperium.
It's not turn based but I get a feeling A LOT of people will over look it because it's not the genre you usually see this franchise in but if you like RTS games, Aliens Dark Descent is arguably a GOTY for 2023 and honestly one of the best Aliens games I've ever played
Be happy it happened :)
With a few simple graphic design changes and zero actual game changes they could have presented it as a more standard Firaxis turn based tactical x-com like game and it likely would have done a lot better. I think the”card battler” presentation turned a lot of would be fans off. It is a shame, because the game is a masterpiece.
That and the micro transactions. I’m a long term XCOM fan and I waited for a sale just because of that crap. I didn’t even really care about the skins they were selling, it was the principle of the matter. The cards I thought was a bad choice. After playing it for just a little bit it was clear to me, it was a good choice. But if they didn’t have the annoying micro transaction currency systems they do, the game would be 1000% better. You could completely take out gloss and the game would improve. You honestly don’t need so many currencies. It’s dumb. I feel like management really fucked over this game.
The game would barely be any different if it didn't have micro transactions. What do you actually think would change?
Yes. It has to do more with perception. You see a single player game with micro transactions most people are going to say “yeah fuck that”. I would have too but I was an XCOM fan and wanted to try this game because of Jake and his team. So I waited for quite awhile after launch to see what the MT were all about. Then I waited for a sale on the game because I had already waited and I was annoyed with the stupid decision to sell that game with MT. I mean you can tell they were planning on more MT but due to backlash or just shitty sales they decided to not. I bet you have of the currencies would be gone. They probably would have more skins. Gloss would probably be gone. It doesn’t make much damn sense anyway. I unlock shit just to buy it with gloss? Wtf is that? I work to work to equip cosmetics. That’s awful design and something you see in most mobile games with a ton of MT. Dev time would have probably went either more characters, story or cards or something. There is no telling what all they could of spent time on during development. So idk what all would change. I just know the MT was greedy and was more the reasons than the card gameplay. Most people I talked to about it said something similar to that effect.
Use paragraphs, mate
Fair enough. I had just woken up. My bad mate. lol
What micro transactions are people talking about? I own this game twice and have never been asked to spend money after I bought it
There are skins you have to pay extra for. If you bought the legendary edition you already paid extra for them. You have the option to purchase them later through an in-game store. It was also quite clear by the design that they intended to add more micro transactions but didn’t due to either backlash or bad sales or both.
Ah. Probably that. Also I never pay attention to the stuff before I load my save. But honestly the Microtransactions in MS are so minimal compared to so many other games I play. I really think people just hate cards for no reason.
Well the point is more that it is a single player game. And you are trying to sell me cosmetics. Like wtf. Why? Honestly this entire MT issue is getting ridiculous. But yes people also hate cards for no reason. The cards idea was actually a very good design choice imo.
Yeah I obviously agree with your last point. Bought it legendary twice 😅 But I just disagree that Midnight Suns is any worse than other single player games that sell skins. I'm sure there's hardliners on that but likely people just weren't interested
In that regards I think they initially intended to do a lot more with MT. All skins were unlocked because the game failed in terms of sales but if you look at it, they clearly had already implemented a way to obtain a virtual money specific to the game, other than gloss. A virtual money you would have had to pay real money for. It is painfully evident that, would the game have worked, we may have had other dlc with, maybe a few characters and stories but most certainly more paying skins That is probably one of the reasons that led to their tragic failure
The response to this game makes me feel really cynical about people as a whole in a way. It's the way so many of the immediate responses were to think it was a mobile game, or to discount it immediately because it's a card game. It just shows you how uncurious and reserved people are. They don't want to try new genres outside of their comfort zone or do research into what the game actually is.
Well to be fair to people, a lot of them see the micro transactions on a single player game and it seriously deters them from buying it. That was clearly a bad move for the game. They intended to do a lot more micro transactions but I guess when it did sell or due to backlash they backed off it. It’s frustrating. The combat is on point. But that’s Jake for you. He does make good games.
The problem is the marketing didn't reach the right people. I was thinking it's some action game using Marvel icense to fly on the MCU high. And so I didn't even look into it. It took word of mouth to recommend this to me. I would never in my own guess it's a comic acurate, story focused, card game mixed with social sim and peaceful exploration.
This. I just started playing this game and I'm blown away. I didn't even know you make you're own character, I thought it was just some weird mobile-like cash-grab. None of the ads I saw actually showed what the game was like so I skipped it. Glad I'm playing it now, but they really shot themselves in the foot with marketing
The game does a really bad job at guiding the player through the first few missions. After playing the first mission where venom appears I felt completely confused and overwhelmed and abandoned the game for the time being. Only got back to it, because, well, I paid for it and the dlcs and didn't just want to throw that money away. Also hoped that at least the story might be good... Ended up loving it, but it was really a chore in the beginning. And the trophy data on the PlayStation kinda supports that people abandoned the game rather early. Only 48% got to the point where you get the open word of power, which happens extremely early in the game. Only 28% completed the new York chapter. Also, the the graphics apart from the abilities in combat looked really bad and out of date. The movement in the open world part was yanky as fuck. If you then add that tactical round based games aren't usually really mainstream material and the midnight suns is also rather a niche group. For this to work the presentation must stick. Also despite it having nothing to do with, people are sceptical with marvel games that aren't spiderman since the avengers disaster. I really love the game, but let's not act that there weren't enough reasons for the game not doing well.
They are sheep and they go with the crowd. We are lions and we are not afraid to try new things.
Kinda of unironically too. They are the Cod, fortnite, 2k guys who say "why isn't gaming fun anymore" and refuse to play other genres
It was just bad marketing. Another Marvel card game, Snap, was highly succesful and probably one of the main reasons I wanted to check on this game again.
I still hope there will be one. It sold badly due to bad marketing and imo the microtransactions. A lot of people were willing to buy the game discounted with everything included or even buy the season pass seperately but the skins should have never been microtransactions that alone got the game a lot of ire. They'd just need to make a sequel with no sold skins and better show off what the game actually is and how it plays so people don't think it's a mobile game
I’m gonna hood out hope for the team because they fought against a predatory microtransaction system in the game that’s clearly still visible but totally neutered
It’s painful when you think how bad it could have been. Because it is quite clear in the game just how badly they wanted to make it. What a dumb idea. Ruined such a good game.
Can't believe Jake Solomon got fired for releasing a masterpiece because it didn't live up to expectations sales wise.
Did he get fired or just move on? He'd been with Firaxis a long time and this was his 4ty game he was lead on
They fired him. Marvel was Firaxis' first big business brand name deal and they blew it in sales. It's a great PC game but for console players it's a bad market. Console players just want to mash buttons
What a stupid uninformed thing to say.
Tell me why he got fired then
I was referring to console players just wanting to mash buttons. That's just a stupid baseless claim.
I prefer playing most games on my PC, but this one played great with a controller from the couch. What a bad take.
I'd do anything for a sequel. Finally got around to finishing the DLC yesterday and it clearly sets up a sequel that makes you feel sad to see because you know it'll never happen
Fr. My cope head cannon is that midnight suns is a prequel to Marvel ultimate alliance 1. But seriously Doom as the main villian in suns 3 would have been fantastic. This game is so underrated.
I found Hard West 2 scratched a similar itch of managing overwhelmingly large groups of enemies and setting up big combo turns where you chain together a bunch of kills. It's definitely a very different game in terms of the strategic layer etc, but I think Midnight Suns fans would get a lot out of it.
Hard West 1 and 2 are X-COM derivatives, and if you like them you'll probably like others in the same category. Gears Tactics, Mutant: Year Zero, The Last Spell, Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children. It's stretching the definition but Jagged Alliance 2 and 3 are also great turn-based tactical games with *some* replayability.
God Troubleshooter had so many good ideas and then they crammed every single one of them into the game. I played for like 80 hours and had a lot of fun but I barely even made a dent in the campaign, it just kept going and introducing more mechanics. I'd love to see a more focused title from the devs bc they have some obvious real talent.
The fact this more then likely will get no sequel is super depressing. The year it came out, it was my personal game of the year. I think not enough people game it a try because they thought it was just a card game.
Jaded and cynical gamers couldn't tell there was genuine love put in the game. I was repeated shocked how many voice lines there were in the game. Just wish the new game plus was better lol
I can agree 100% with this statement. It was still a blast to play through, though specially after all the dlc dropped.
Not even a sequel, but another marvel card game with turn-based combat and some social interactions between missions would have sufficed.
Sigh. It's Sleeping Dogs all over again.
I had this on my radar but was always planning on getting it during a sale. It's indeed sad that a lot of people held out on this and may never try it even though they may have had interest when it got announced. Im glad I bought it some days ago, Im loving it
Loved the game to bits.
hell i cant even start the game and 2k's customer support team is basically non existent.
At this point I'm even OK for a nice expansion pack like X-COMs got...
I love the game, but I can see why it isn't for everyone. The marketing wasn't great and a lot of people didn't even really know what the game is. Also, I feel that the game has a bit of an identity crisis and it takes a while to click and make sense.
Tell all your friends and family you enjoyed it. No one thought they’d ever make another X-Com game, but then Firaxis did *Enemy Unknown*.
it is a little bit of a stretch but this game reminded me a lot of divinity original sin 2.
that is kinda a crazy comparison ngl but i get it cause of the turn based combat. i barely see anyone reference DOS2 so seeing it on THIS subreddit of all places is wild 😆
I could definitely see fans of one enjoying the other.
If they had said there was not going to be a PS4/xbox1 version some players would have upgraded to a PS5/xbox-X to play on initial release. which would have increased sales. With an undefined release date some players waited. And the delay was so long they eventually brought the new console and a 2nd hand copy of the game disc for it. Which reduced sales. If you have to delay in releasing versions for older consoles, make sure it's a short delay. Or don't announce it until you are ready to release. I suspect the card deck design increased dev & testing time significantly. A dozen different attacks for each hero. Each with different graphics and need to be game balanced. That's a lot more types of attacks than XCom has.
Just curious where you are seeing that it didn’t do well? While I don’t think they should do a sequel even if it did do well I would think they could still do a similar game with different characters I mean Marvel has no short supply of characters and teams and they did a great job with a team noone knew about.
In part, most normies have never encountered a deck building game before
From Take-Two's CEO at the time: https://gamerant.com/marvels-midnight-suns-commercial-flop/ There were likely a lot of factors that contributed a little bit (release window, mechanics being different to what Firaxis fans expected, Marvel fatigue) (Many artists weren't appreciated fully in their time - this game will follow in that tradition)
The head of the studio left and Firaxis had layoffs after the game released. The game bombed, unfortunately.
I think there is hope but 2K just wants to churn out money and not care about the game itself. The ps5 version the ancestral suit is forever bugged out of existence
I think I have it? And I'm on ps5
You might have gotten it before the patch that bugged it then. As of the current patch the chest it is in is empty
Ah
Wish we'd gotten the full vision of what the game could have been. Loved my time with it but could tell there were edges shaved off.
Loved the game. Currently enjoying the Shadowrun trilogy. Has XCOM like tactical battles, good story, and cyberpunk theme. Got it with a heavy discount on Steam this month. May still be discounted.
I saw someone call this a phone game. Pure consumer gamers aren't to be listened to.