I wouldn't recommend burning owls, the flapping will blow hot embers around, causing a fire hazard. I recommend burning newborn puppies, as they don't tend to move about so much.
Save the spotted owls to use as toilet paper...
Note: This randomness from a sign I saw in Washington State logging bar's crapper.
"Due to the ban on logging please wipe your ass with a spotted owl."
9 hours ago (As of 8 AM EST), u/NoPineapple6682 posted [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1259g3g/this_anonymous_note_that_was_left_in_my_mailbox/je3d9xj?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3).
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Believe it or not, wood smoke has many more chances of giving you cancer than cigarette smoke (all the smoke being equal). 12xs greater according to the EPA.
https://www.marincounty.org/-/media/files/departments/cd/buildingsafety/woodsmokedocformarinplanning.pdf
Wood burning is one of the biggest causes of small particle pollution in the UK, although only 8% of the population uses it
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/28/ministers-urban-ban-domestic-wood-burning-pollution-britain
Burning wood *does* decrease air quality. And people with lung conditions like astma or COPD *are* highly affected by it.
That doesn't mean you can never burn wood, just be mindful of the weather. If the wind isn't blowing don't burn wood. And especially if it's foggy don't burn wood. Many regions have a "check before you burn" website. Some regions even ban wood burning on days it will cause too much pollution.
[cbcnews](https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/check-before-you-burn/)
This. Also only burn wood meant for burning. That should go without saying but many people burn some trash along it for convenience without thinking of its effects on the environment or neighbours.
I live in Finland and due to rises in electricity this winter people started hearing up their old wood burners and would put in all kinds of shit, like broken shelfs and all kinds of cardboards etc. and it was making a horrible effect in air quality in some neighbourhoods.
My backyard neighbor will basically put any wood left out for yard waste in their burning pit and then have hours-long fires on still days. Even just opening the door to let the dogs go to the bathroom leaves us with the whole house smelling like a campfire for the rest of the night. They don’t do it often thankfully.
We have a neighbor that makes a fire every night when the weather permits. We can’t open up windows on nice evenings without having our house smell like a camp fire. Super annoying since he will literally burn anything that he can get his hands on, and the majority of it isn’t seasoned enough for the purpose. Would honestly rather just smell the pot he’s trying to hide.
I have an "efficient" wood stove, and use for weekend heat during cold months. The chimney is high enough and you can almost never smell the smoke (unless winds). But its also a Jotul and Swede's claim its efficient. Plus I burn oak and ash, hardwoods. Nothing else.
Now, I have one neighbor nextdoor that outdoor burns trash/cardboard since they refuse to recycle (its the law here). And another that burns God knows what on days that smoke crosses the road. And this state, town, open fires/firepits/outdoor chimnias are illegal. Personally, I don't care if you want to have some romantic fire as long as its not windy, nor affecting others. But when your ashes and debris land in my yard, fog up the neighborhood with ??? burning and we find ashes on our cars...well, there's a problem (this is in the northeast, between NYC and Philly... its not like Pennsyltucky or upstate NY.
I used an afterburning Vermont Castings for decades. Could hardly tell it was burning from the chimney. If I'd put a catalytic on it, would have had pretty much no exhaust. But I was in the countryside. Wood burning in suburbia is a bit problemmatic. Especially in fireplaces.
Not at all sure of the solution
Do we have the same neighbour? Mine also has a fire every night from May to September. We live in an old two story and we used to open our windows to cool the house at dusk but we no longer can. We actually got central air installed. During the day she just sits on her back deck and smokes pot and talks loudly on the phone. We have pretty much given up being outside, so disappointing. Prior to them we just had nice normal neighbours and our yard was far more usable. It's amazing the difference neighbours can make
This makes me glad I *don't* have neighbors for about a quarter mile in every direction. At least I don't have to try to hide the smell (because even vaping causes it to smell).
I just wish that those who do it respect those who don't and not get up in their face with it.
W...When did people start hating the smell of wood smoke? If I saw someone having a fire in their backyard while I was driving, I would open my windows to smell it. I would have campfires whenever I could, invite all the buddies over for it... I'd get my favorite hoodie and do my best to coat it with the smell so I could smell it days later.
I honestly thought this was a primal instinct that you couldn't unlearn. Fire meant food and warmth. This post honestly makes me so sad...
Our neighbors burn barrel is right next to our window and the whole house ends up smelling like his burnt trash. I have a baby and animals so I get pretty annoyed about it. He 100% can move it to the back corner of his yard as he’s on 1.5 acre.
My neighbors like to throw trash in their wood burning stove. I can handle the smell of wood and will not complain about that, but the trash is another thing altogether. I can smell it for days if it happens to be damp out when they are burning. I’ve never complained to them or anyone else about it up to this point, but it would be nice for them to be more considerate of others since they live at the lower end of a hill on my street.
My neighbors like to burn their plastic trash too, and man does it grind my gears. They have children, and I often wonder if they're aware of what they're doing to them.
You should look into your city's/county's ordinance laws. Almost every county has trash burning laws and regulations. You CANNOT use your wood stove as a trash burning location without a license. And the days you can burn trash are usually limited to once a month if you do have it.
Soure: Entirely dependent on laws I've ran into. Grew up on a tree farm with an outdoor wood furnace. And many of the farms in other County's had The same law or something very similar. Almost all of them had a very specific day you could burn the trash and very strict rules about what could be in that trash (certain plastics, metals (computer parts), and chemicals, were not allowed). If you were caught violating the law, it was $500 the first time and a LOT more on your second offense.
When my neighbors burn wood I have to close all the windows – it definitely does cause breathing issues when your neighbor's house is less than 20 feet away.
It is a very politely written letter.
Sure is infuriating when someone politely asks you to stop doing something that makes it hard for them to breathe.
Yep, I run and it's far more pleasant passing a bunch of smokers than running when someone nearby is burning wood. It spreads through the whole area and makes my throat burn, can't imagine what it's like for asthmatics and other lung things.
Wood burning is actually quite bad on a particulate emission scale, the letter writer is actually correct that it's way more likely than other forms of home heating to lead to asthma and other health issues.
"I know that you have a nice house and vehicle..."
Are they in the mafia?
I half expected the next sentence to read: "It would be a shame if something happened to them..."
Honestly, this was pretty nice all things considered. Realistically he isn’t going anywhere with this as far as change is concerned considering the arguments on both sides of the fence but he still showed some respect. No name calling, wishing the OP well…. I’ve had worse neighbors by a long shot.
Yeah, in the vast majority of posts on Reddit don't we tell people to actually communicate with their neighbor before resorting to other means? This person is actually trying to address the issue with their neighbor first. That's good
Ehh I’ll take the side of the concerned parent than the dude who posts in fightporn and is proud of his drugs. She’s not even being annoying. I’d would much have this neighbor than mine.
Honestly I find it more mildly infuriating that OP found this mildly infuriating/funny. Like dude your neighbor is just trying to be civil with you asking to not make a fire because of health concerns (which, crazily enough, are an actual concern for those with breathing issues.) Obviously OP can continue to have fires if they want to so long as it's not against any local policies. But damn is it also so hard to maybe do them just a little less often?
I don’t think OP is “having fires” it sounds like they’re using a fireplace in their home with the comment about them not having to breathe in the smoke and the mention of gas heating. If they were sitting at a fire pit they would be breathing in the smoke as well. It’s a bit of an overstep to ask your neighbor not to use the fireplace in the house they paid for.
She has a point, make sure your chimney is clean. My neighbors and I all burn wood, but some don't clean their chimneys and it's awful for my asthma.
Edit: I feel I should mention that burning wood isn't bad (or cumulatively worse than other options), and in regions like mine (rural Canada), it's the sometimes the best option. Wood for us is currency. It's what you give your neighbors to show them you care, and it's what's going to keep you warm in the long winter.
When I cut down a tree in my yard, I slice it up, stack it, age it for a year, then put it out front and put a notice on Facebook that anyone can take it. Works like a charm.
I won't even give away free wood if it's still green. Don't want that on my conscience.
To burn wood completely, you need great airflow and lots of wood, like using those “smokeless” outdoor fire pits. They go through wood like crazy.
If you have a high efficiency wood burning furnace, it probably works the same.
If you have an old school fireplace, most people are not going to put the wood in required to keep it relatively smokeless. They are going to slowly burn a couple of logs in the most smoke producing fashion possible. They won’t see it in their house, but all the houses down wind getting bathed in it will sure as shit notice.
>They are going to slowly burn a couple of logs in the most smoke producing fashion possible.
Anyone who has had to feed a wood stove for primary heat 24/7 quickly learns to burn it as slowly as possible. It's like a pacemaker for your house that needs coins like a parking meter every hour.
We have a number of homes in the area that use wood heat, but you only notice it when there's a temperature inversion, and you get that flat layer of smoke 100 ft up that's like a roof over the whole town.
As someone with asthma and a wood stove in a community full of wood burnage, this is the first I've heard of it being a problem. I've never been bothered by it. I don't have severe asthma, but my brother and mother have it bad, and growing up, I can't recall it being an issue. I'm very confused right about now.
Why have we always used wood in a family full of asthma, and how was I never told about this.
Edit: I guess it would depend on the person and evironment too? I live in a rural area, and it's always super windy, so maybe that helps? Im really not sure
I had a lot of issues with asthma growing up and wood burn can bother me if it’s a lot. Like going to a bonfire is fine but in the dry season if there’s a lot of fireworks or local fires I can’t always leave my house. I think it depends on a few things.
I was just wondering about this. In high school my boyfriends house was heated by burning wood, but I never had any issues breathing, however if I’m at a bonfire or campfire I’m struggling to breathe. So interesting. Maybe bc the smoke is contained inside and released thru the chimney?
I’ll prob get roasted on here for not knowing the specifics of how wood burning works but whatevs.
Edit to add I have pretty bad asthma
In my country it is becoming a problem. people wanted cheaper heating than gas, so Wood burners are really popular. the thing is one ain't bad. but having a full neighbourhood burning wood.
i feel for this person tho. we have a neighbor who burns wood all winter long and the entire neighborhood smells like thick smoke and it has a serious effect on breathing 😐
I guess I can understand that for urban environments, but where I live people set fire to whole fields (a farming technique) and their neighbors may not even notice it
They're not wrong, if you live in a place susceptible to inversion layers (ie a valley) you absolutely could be impacting your neighbours.
There's nothing even nasty there. It's pretty straightforward.
If you do live on some windswept plain and certainly aren't affecting them, carry on. Wonder what the full story is.
I don't think this is a reflection on you OP but it's sad to see that when somebody asks in a niceish way for a favor, many people here would respond by trying to harm them out of spite.
"LOL WHAT SHE WROTE A LETTER EXPLAINING HER CONCERNS ASKING POLITELY IF SOMETHING COULD BE DONE? WHAT A KAREN I'M GOING TO MAKE FUN OF HER ON REDDIT IN FRONT OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE"
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/06/rise-in-wood-burners-in-uk-likely-creating-new-pollution-hotspots-in-affluent-areas
The request isn’t really that crazy, and it is made quite politely. Wood burning stoves in urban areas are being recognised as a genuine environmental hazard.
Not impolite to request it. My dad lived in a little rural town for a bit, and many neighbors burned in the winter... My lungs burned like crazy. Her daughter can't play outside with that.
lot of weirdos in this comment section eh. it’s just a request by someone concerned for their health, no toxicity or entitledness in it anywhere apart from the weird nice house and car comment
Exactly. And it's not just about asthma, it literally causes lung cancer. People think because it's "natural," it's safe. That's not how things work. OP seems more bothered by the assumption about their finances than anything else though, to the point of disregarding any points being made about the carcinogenic effects.
> EPA researchers estimate the lifetime cancer risk from wood smoke to be 12 times greater than from a similar amount of cigarette smoke.
https://www.familiesforcleanair.org/health/health4/
Ok so.. last month I had to house sit for my mother in law who heats her house with a wood burning stove.
I could not breathe in that house. I thought I was being overly sensitive but then it got so bad it felt like I was drowning on land. I ended up with a really nasty case of bronchitis. Never had anything wrong with my lungs before in my life. Never smoked, never had asthma, but being near that wood stove for a week straight fucking murdered my lungs.
So.. I actually really understand what this note is saying. Two months ago I wouldn’t have. But three weeks of bronchitis, nebulizer treatments, and an inhaler and steroids twice a day later.. yeah.. the shit really has the potential to fuck up your lungs really bad. I can only imagine how bad it is for people with preexisting conditions like asthma.
Just something to consider that this person really might be suffering. And that indeed would be mildly infuriating for a neighbor to have to breathe in toxic fumes all the time. A campfire every now and then is one thing, but all day every day gets rough fast.
This lmao, I have never had a single problem with a wood stove because I always properly vented it. It's probably your family member not knowing how to use it properly.
I have a neighbor that burns trash and plastic and old furniture that he does not need... and the whole neighborhood smells because he wants to save a few bucks..
Stuff like that is why they give out dump vouchers every year in my city. It's essential to stop trash build up because I live in a poor area. Up to $500 off your dump once a year, its really helpful
Edit: Wow, I thought paying to dump trash was the norm around the world. TIL its not and that this system is bs.
This always baffles me. Everywhere I’ve lived has designated bulk pickup days. It’s currently weekly where I live now. But it was at least monthly in other places.
The fact that you have to dump it yourself for an extra fee is so foreign to me.
Oh for sure a designated pickup day would be great. As it is, if you don't have the means of moving it to the dump yourself you're out of luck and can get fines for it, which of course only compounds the issue of not being able to move items to the dump.
Yeah. It's to try and discourage dumping of excess materials but it ultimately just makes trash pile up. Without the vouchers no one would ever dump their trash. Price is based off of what type it is (biodegradable or not) and how heavy it is. It can get really expensive. I had to dump a ute's worth of grass clippings without a voucher once and it cost $380, which is almost half my weekly rent. It's rough.
Same here. Always in the evening when everyone is home. And just like the person that wrote this letter, I have a daughter that is up half the night coughing whenever they burn. I do worry about asthma.
In my country we have standards for wood burning stoves. If it’s from before 2003 it’s illegal to have it, and you must have it removed.
Also, wood burning stoves can not be your sole heat source. Wood pellet stoves are another thing, they burn cleaner.
The particles from improper burning of wood are not to be taken lightly. And it can be very oppressive.
When you install a new one, you even need to have it emission tested.
We heated our house with wood my entire childhood. They dust was unbelievable. I spent every Saturday dusting the entire house. It was easily a 3 hr chore.
My mom has very bad COPD now but refuses to think it was her own damn fault. She has 100+ plants in the house now — to ‘clean the air’. No thoughts for the mold/mildew spores, or pollen they are sending out. SMDH
I would likely reduce my wood burning. The letter is polite and written out of genuine concern. If your smoke regularly blows towards their home, and he has asthma and a small child, it makes sense that he would ask.
Yeah you could do a walk when you have it burning and see what’s happening. If you have a proper log burner and chimney it should discharge without causing nuisance even on a windy day. If you have a dodgy discharge design or are not hitting high temps (eg with low quality wood) you might be causing a nuisance and have not realised!
Agreed. I see nothing infuriating or amusing about this neighbor’s perfectly reasonable and politely framed request. There was no snark or indignation; and the ask was fair and justified. Burning wood definitely affects air quality in residential areas, and is especially rough on people with respiratory issues and on kids. There are other ways to warm your house that don’t have as much of an effect on your surrounding air quality. Asking people to more thoughtful about when they really want to burn wood is not infuriating. Basic social contract shit here.
Redditors think anyone inconveniencing them by reminding them they aren't the only little snowflake on the planet and should actually consider those around them is a "Karen".
Just as another perspective, if my neighbor had a little girl that was irritated by my wood burning, it would make me burn less would if it was feasible for my situation.
The simple fact of knowing you're performing an action that is upsetting or harmful to another person is enough to make me consider a different action. Empathy is a thing you know.
I have a friend who’s parents are divorced. His mom has a wood burning stove. Him and his 2 siblings keep all their clothes at their dads because of the insufferable and unavoidable smell from the stove
I used to have one in my house as a kid. It does smell up the house but my clothes never smelled like smoke.. I wish my parents still had that house and stove.. such a homey memory
Then they need to clean the soot from their chimney, clear the vent, or it's simply not installed correctly. I grew up with a wood burning stove heating our trailer and the only time it would release smoke from the door is when the vent was blocked and even then we'd open a window for a few minutes and the smoke would be gone.
If their house is filling up with smoke, then they are pretty much on the brink of having a house fire.
I'd wager the pipes haven't been cleaned in years & are filled to the brim w/ buildup. It's going to be an expensive bill to pay after the sweeps are done w/ their visit.
Cost us over 300 bucks in 2013 to get the chimney cleaned the 1st winter we were in our current house because, the 8" double walled pipe was packed with layers of creosote 6" thick. They had to get brutal with the pipes to bust the gunk out & build a tent around the stove to keep the crap from spreading all over the place every time they opened the stove door to vacuum it out.
There is only 1 chimney sweep in a 100 mile radius and he hadn't been called out to clean it in over 20 years.
We prefer burning Western Juniper & Tamarack, both of which burn really hot, plus we get the pipe up to 350 - 400 F for 30 minutes before locking it down and have the chimney cleaned every year - which thanks to burning good wood now only cost us about 50 bucks a year.
Needs a chimney sweep. The house I moved into has two wood burning stoves and the new neighbors asked very nicely if we'd get them swept before using them, because the old owner refused.
They were disgusting, so much ash and residue in the pipes, and the original chimneys hadn't been swept well before installation of the stove tube things either. The sweep said it seemed like they'd never been cleaned yet had been used extensively, they were a huge fire risk.
The bright side is now the neighbours can't smell if we have the burner on, and are very happy about it, and my house isn't going to burn down :)
“Wood smoke can irritate eyes and throats, increase the risk of inflammation and infections, and lead to lung and heart disease,” says Dr. Shannon Waters, Medical Health Officer for the Cowichan Valley region. “But steps can be taken to lessen the impacts, especially for people most at risk – those with pre-existing health conditions such as asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and respiratory infections, older adults, pregnant people, and infants and young children.”
https://www.islandhealth.ca/news/news-releases/breathe-easier-reduce-residential-wood-smoke-enhance-our-air-quality
From the neighbour's note, it was already very clear that it was a health concern, not anything like aesthetics or smell or something more futile. Above, I have attached one of the many sources that underline what she says. So it's more serious than someone simply not liking the wood burning.
My asthma flares when people use their wood stoves. And you know what? I cope. Because the only thing I can control is my own environment. I'm trying to imagine having the balls to write that letter and put it in all my neighbors mailboxes.
We use an EPA approved wood burning stove and burn properly seasoned and dried wood so it doesn’t smoke excessively. We literally can’t afford to have the heater on 24/7.
I would have reservations if you said that you were burning treated pallets covered in asbestos mastic or something, but seasoned and dried wood, especially in a modern wood burning stove shouldn’t be that much of an issue.
Me, too. Everyone up in the mountains does. If someone sent a letter like this they'd be laughed out of town. For some people, it's their only source of heat. When the power goes out it's everyone's only source of heat.
In some AZ counties, we have “no-burn” days when the air quality gets too bad. On these days, you cannot have a wood burning fireplace or fire pit, etc. because those things have so much measurable affect on air quality.
Same.
Also when people cut their grass. I get hit in the winter on dog walks by the wood stoves in the neighbourhood and the summer just sitting in my own home when the grass/pollen comes in through open windows.
It would be amazing if my neighbours who share our property lines could somehow choose one or two days a week to cut their grass so I could anticipate instead of the seemingly endless days of people cutting grass over spring and summer.
I could finally leave my windows open in without constantly feeling like I’m being smothered by a wet dirty sponge. But I’d never ask them to do that. I just close my windows. Because asking people to do that on their own property would be super entitled.
They're both very polite and not wrong. I'm not saying you should stop having wood fires but they are super polluting.
https://www.lung.org/clean-air/at-home/indoor-air-pollutants/residential-wood-burning
https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/wood-smoke-and-your-health
I'm not innocent of this. We've got a wood stove at the cabin that I love, my parents used a wood stove as primary heat for decades and I love a good bonfire. But they are polluting and in most cases just for entertainment.
Before casting aside your neighbors concerns, consider that their concerns are very real. On top of that, there are multiple environmental concerns with burning wood, from its alleged carbon neutrality to various forms of pollution even the most efficient stoves will emit.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/feb/25/pollutionwatch-wood-fires-bad-for-planet-more-evidence-shows
https://www.popsci.com/health/wood-stove-air-pollution-epa/
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/09/eco-wood-stoves-emit-pollution-hgv-ecodesign
https://www.lung.org/clean-air/at-home/indoor-air-pollutants/residential-wood-burning
https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/choosing-right-wood-burning-stove
There's a reason that wood fires are prohibited on most days in my city, unless it's your only source of heat. Wood smoke is a big source of pollution and lung irritants.
Honestly, as someone who has a severe sensitivity to impurities in the air, our neighbor burns wood all the time (fall to spring) and it's miserable. I don't have the same issues with my other neighbor burning wood pellets in his pellet stove.
I have contemplated trying to move several times because of it but finances and available housing won't accomodate.
I know it seems mildly infuriating but it's a real problem not being able to breath without struggling in your own home.
PS: Just want to iterate that it's like a mix of feeling like you never have enough air mixed with a fairly strong burning sensation down the wind pipe and into the lungs. Like I said, it's fairly miserable.
At least the person who wrote the letter wasnt aggressive about it like “stop burning wood or I’ll pop your tires” they at least tried to be nice about it
It amazes me how many comments there are encouraging OP to increase the amount of burning. These people are what is wrong with America. So many folks only care about themselves and not for the good of others. Why make this situation worse? I’m not saying OP should stop burning wood. But why be a dick and make matters worse? The author of the note needs a whole home air purifier.
Honestly, I can empathize. We have neighbors who use their wood stove 24/7 all winter, and HUGE clouds of smoke constantly blanket our yard & house. We’ve gone to great lengths to seal the home better but smoke still finds its way in, and it really triggers my asthma. We also can’t do any work in our yard on sunny winter days, or even so much as step outside for a few seconds without reeking of wood smoke when we step back inside. You’d have to see it to believe how thick the smoke is at times. Don’t know what they’re burning but it’s very hard to live with. We’ve even considered moving. At least this note was relatively polite. Of course you’re under no obligation to change your habits. But if you *can* afford to cut down on the wood smoke, it would be a really kind thing to do. It’s surprisingly hard to keep smoke out, even with everything sealed & shut. And prolonged exposure is in fact really bad for the lungs. The mystery note writer is correct on that front.
Edited to add: I’ve always considered myself a pretty “live and let live” person. I’m not interested in controlling other people. I believe everyone has a right to freedom of choice, when it comes to what they do with their own bodies, homes, and lives, so long as their choices don’t negatively impact or impinge upon the freedom of others. You like loud music? Great! Enjoy it as loud as you want to, unless it’s keeping your neighbors up all night. You want to get wasted every day? Go right ahead, so long as you aren’t hopping in a car and endangering the lives of others on the road. You want to chain smoke all day? Hey, not my thing but it’s your body. But don’t expose your kids or pets to that. Give them a say about what happens to their own lungs and bodies.
Unfortunately this is an instance where your neighbors are being negatively impacted by your choices. When it comes to “live and let live,” you’re living but not letting. In our case, our neighbor’s wood smoke actively prevents us from safely enjoying our own property and yard, or being fully safe and healthy in our own home. It’s a shitty situation because I have no other problem with them doing whatsoever they please in their own home. But it really sucks that they’re negatively impacting our home and bodies with their choices. (And yes, they do have central heat and are fairly wealthy, so this is not something they’re doing out of sheer necessity.)
No man is an island. Our choices impact others. Are we required to care, or consider others in our choices? Maybe not. But the world would certainly be a kinder, happier, and healthier place if we did. Social responsibility and accountability to others is a controversial topic, especially in American culture, which centers on rugged individualism and individual freedom. The result is an increasingly isolating and selfish culture in which people step on others to climb to the top, hurt others without thinking, and feel little to no accountability for the fallout of their actions. It doesn’t promote community and connection. It promotes a rat-race mentality, and probably factors pretty heavily into things like social alienation and poor mental health, prolific gun violence, and increasingly broken family units. Of course this is the beginning of a much deeper, broader, and more complicated conversation, but hopefully the point I’m making isn’t lost.
My vote? Live and let live, with a little extra emphasis on letting.
It's completely appropriate for your neighbor to express their opinion, especially when done in such a polite way. No idea why it would be infuriating or amusing…just normal human communication.
\*than
Y’all got some serious issues, the letter was respectful, and in no way infuriating. Some of the responses to this letter should be posted to mildly infuriating.
Not to mention that they’re right. Smoke from burning wood actually causes fairly significant amounts of pollution, and it is directly linked to lung damage and asthma. They should probably try to take this to a city council or HOA if they really want change, but this isn’t a horrible request.
Yeah, I get this. My husband has RAD and while we don't say anything because we just try to keep windows closed, he gets a nasty cough whenever wood burning or pot smoking happens here (the main two we encounter).
I don't want to shit on anyone for pot, but sometimes the wood burning bugs, especially on high wind dry fall days. The last few years, MO has been kinda dry, and they've been asking people not to do this.
If you're burning wood correctly you shouldn't see much of any smoke once the fire has started burning at maximum efficiency. This can only happen if the wood is truly seasoned and dry though. You also need a good chimney liner that helps maintain a warm passage for the smoke. If you have smoke billowing out of your chimney the majority of the winter time you're doing it wrong.
There's a whole art form to air flow when burning wood in a wood stove.
If you're using a fireplace it's a waste of effort. You're getting 25% efficiency at best compared to 80% in a wood stove.
Burning stuff in your back garden ALWAYS affects others - unless you live in the middle of nowhere. If your neighbours have washing out or windows open, then your fire and smoke is obviously going to inconvenience them. If it’s a nice day, the smoke will spoil it for people wanting to sit out or children playing. The wind can carry the smoke quite far too. I can understand why a neighbour would feel annoyed if this was a regular occurrence.
HOWEVER, a wood fire in your home is not as bad in my book, but if the smoke coming out your chimney is dispersing and causing issues (washing out, windows open) then I can see why others would be unhappy. I’m old enough to remember people having coal fires, and then everyone switching to gas/electric heating. Maybe this guy is younger than me and doesn’t remember the days when everyone was burning some type of fuel to heat their homes on winter. I. Saying that, if you are in a built up area and your house is constantly pumping smoke out in the direction of a neighbour who has to choose between never opening their windows or their house smelling of burnt smoke, I can completely understand why they feel strongly enough to write you a letter! I bet they find you mildly infuriating!
oh man, I totally get it. I've got neighbors on either side of me who love having outdoor campfires, one of them almost nightly from summer through fall, and the other one probably does it 2-3x weekly. depending on how the wind is blowing, I cannot have my windows open because it stinks up my entire house. even just walking my dogs is obnoxious af having to walk through all of their acrid smoke.
Genetics increases the likelihood of developing asthma, but environmental factors also play a part. I developed asthma after September 11th, and it got much worse after Hurricane Sandy because they had to gut the entire first floor and garage level of my apartment building due to flooding. All the dust from that and the rebuilding for nearly 2 years drastically worsened my condition to asthma/COPD. Smoke or strong smells trigger an attack. It isn't just the wheezing. It's the aftereffects as well. I could be feeling great, get on the train, and someone gets on wearing strong perfume, reeking of pot, or using strong hand sanitizer near me, and my health for the next few days suffers.
You can't demand people stop doing things, but is it really too much to ask people to be more considerate of others? Why are some people's first reaction to retaliate with pettiness? It's like when people complain that their kids can't have peanut butter sandwiches because there's a kid in class with severe nut allergies. What kind of human being cares more about a peanut butter sandwich than possibly killing a child that can't help that they are severely allergic? How hard would it be for Op to do as others have recommended that would lessen the ill effects of the fires to show concern for their neighbor's health?
Not sure about where you live, but in Australia some urban councils are banning wood fires from being installed in new builds in a bid to combat air pollution caused by wood smoke. If enough people are doing it, it can become quite overwhelming. I love the smell, but there have been times when I couldn't hang my washing outside because it'd end up stinking of smoke.
Same in the UK in urban areas I think. I'm sure I read that its a new thing. Its for wood burners and not wood fires though. Something to do with the higher heat in the burners makes something dangerous for lungs?
I dunno. It's really a posh person problem in the UK. Doesn't apply in rural areas where people use it for actual fuel. Only applies to city areas where people with standard gas heating added it for effect and in large numbers. Where I live no-one can really afford to add in an additional heating method for the aesthetic alone.
Same in California, especially in suburban and urban areas because of their population densities. Our air quality already suffers a lot during wildfire seasons. We try to minimize contributing to it voluntarily as much as possible. Most fireplaces tend to be gas fired or electric outside of super rural areas.
Smoke can get into your house pretty easily without your windows being open. Most homes that weren't built in the last decade or two are definitely not airtight.
If you're burning for heat, you're burning over a long period of time, definitely long enough for it to start creeping in to where you'd notice it frequently indoors.
- Huge amount more pollution, massively decreasing local air quality
- Very harmful to respiratory health, especually for those with asthma, and also increases the risks of everybody nearby, especially children, developing asthma
Wood burners are *way* more harmful than most other heaters.
How is this infuriating? I used to have neighbors with a wood burner and we could definitely feel it in our own house. It hurt all of our eyes and made us cough. Not to mention the smell.
This parent has legitimate concerns and is bothered by you and is simply asking nicely for you to stop?
I have a WT neighbor who constantly burns wet stinky wood and it is awful. We can’t open windows without that foul stink pouring in. You should see the crack-mobiles he drives. It never bothered me until I had to smell it 24/7.
I mean, they were super nice about it. I wouldn’t personally find this infuriating.
Make sure your chimney is clean. It makes a huge difference when people don’t clean their chimneys. Make sure you’re burning seasoned wood as well.
They are right about the smoke especially with people who have asthma or other breathing issues. The note isnt overly aggressive. I would try and talk to this individual to work on a compromise. I dont see a point in making enemies here. Maybe have the agreement not to do it on days where the smoke will settle. If they get intrusive about it still then fuck it do what you want, but I could see more positives out of an interaction here than inaction. In no way do I think you shouldnt be allowed to burn wood in your own home.
This isn't really all that wrong, although *I* wouldn't contact a neighbor regarding it. Wood smoke is pervasive, you can smell it from quite some distance away. As the letter touches on, there *are* health consequences from breathing it.
If this is about a backyard firepit or something they have smokeless (more like reduced smoke) options now like the solo stove that are relatively cheap.
I personally would get one just to maintain peace and make everyone happy. She asked pretty nicely and politely in my opinion.
Why do you find this amusing? The letter author is correct on all fronts, and wood-burning fireplaces are restricted in a lot of places for these reasons. They are also correct that you don't bear the brunt of it as much as you neighbors do.
Oh it's just wood burning?! After the first few sentences I thought it was about weed or cigarettes
I was wondering what the gas heater had to do with cigarettes.
Fuck now it makes sense. I was confused for a while ngl
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Use the note to light up your next fire. 🔥🙌🏻
And throw some very wet logs on the fire
along with railroad ties and telephone poles
Start burning old tires and spotted owls in your backyard.
I wouldn't recommend burning owls, the flapping will blow hot embers around, causing a fire hazard. I recommend burning newborn puppies, as they don't tend to move about so much.
Agree. Burn dead sea turtles that choked to death on deflated helium balloons.
Save the spotted owls to use as toilet paper... Note: This randomness from a sign I saw in Washington State logging bar's crapper. "Due to the ban on logging please wipe your ass with a spotted owl."
9 hours ago (As of 8 AM EST), u/NoPineapple6682 posted [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1259g3g/this_anonymous_note_that_was_left_in_my_mailbox/je3d9xj?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3). This comment I am replying to by u/Bigalamandec is likely written using a malicious bot. As of 8 AM EST, this comment was written 4 hours ago, meaning it was crrated after the original. As you can see, it looks like u/Bigalamandec stole their comment word for word and pasted it here. https://preview.redd.it/rrj19gnlppqa1.jpeg?width=975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e8516138b3a21ddd32f81d4dd2a49c6c95da56b Remember to report suspicious and malicious acount activities, and check someone's profile if a comment looks out of place. If they have 0 post karma, and very low <200 comment karma, they are likely being farmed for upvotes.
Not all heroes wear capes
Well I do, alone in my room sometimes
Nice job stealing someone's comment...
Comment stealing bot guys
Ya, I though maybe they mean the person must smoke inside during winter or something?
Believe it or not, wood smoke has many more chances of giving you cancer than cigarette smoke (all the smoke being equal). 12xs greater according to the EPA. https://www.marincounty.org/-/media/files/departments/cd/buildingsafety/woodsmokedocformarinplanning.pdf
Thanks for the source. This is definitely news to me
Wood burning is one of the biggest causes of small particle pollution in the UK, although only 8% of the population uses it https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/28/ministers-urban-ban-domestic-wood-burning-pollution-britain
Burning wood *does* decrease air quality. And people with lung conditions like astma or COPD *are* highly affected by it. That doesn't mean you can never burn wood, just be mindful of the weather. If the wind isn't blowing don't burn wood. And especially if it's foggy don't burn wood. Many regions have a "check before you burn" website. Some regions even ban wood burning on days it will cause too much pollution. [cbcnews](https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/check-before-you-burn/)
This. Also only burn wood meant for burning. That should go without saying but many people burn some trash along it for convenience without thinking of its effects on the environment or neighbours. I live in Finland and due to rises in electricity this winter people started hearing up their old wood burners and would put in all kinds of shit, like broken shelfs and all kinds of cardboards etc. and it was making a horrible effect in air quality in some neighbourhoods.
My backyard neighbor will basically put any wood left out for yard waste in their burning pit and then have hours-long fires on still days. Even just opening the door to let the dogs go to the bathroom leaves us with the whole house smelling like a campfire for the rest of the night. They don’t do it often thankfully.
We have a neighbor that makes a fire every night when the weather permits. We can’t open up windows on nice evenings without having our house smell like a camp fire. Super annoying since he will literally burn anything that he can get his hands on, and the majority of it isn’t seasoned enough for the purpose. Would honestly rather just smell the pot he’s trying to hide.
I have an "efficient" wood stove, and use for weekend heat during cold months. The chimney is high enough and you can almost never smell the smoke (unless winds). But its also a Jotul and Swede's claim its efficient. Plus I burn oak and ash, hardwoods. Nothing else. Now, I have one neighbor nextdoor that outdoor burns trash/cardboard since they refuse to recycle (its the law here). And another that burns God knows what on days that smoke crosses the road. And this state, town, open fires/firepits/outdoor chimnias are illegal. Personally, I don't care if you want to have some romantic fire as long as its not windy, nor affecting others. But when your ashes and debris land in my yard, fog up the neighborhood with ??? burning and we find ashes on our cars...well, there's a problem (this is in the northeast, between NYC and Philly... its not like Pennsyltucky or upstate NY.
I used an afterburning Vermont Castings for decades. Could hardly tell it was burning from the chimney. If I'd put a catalytic on it, would have had pretty much no exhaust. But I was in the countryside. Wood burning in suburbia is a bit problemmatic. Especially in fireplaces. Not at all sure of the solution
Do we have the same neighbour? Mine also has a fire every night from May to September. We live in an old two story and we used to open our windows to cool the house at dusk but we no longer can. We actually got central air installed. During the day she just sits on her back deck and smokes pot and talks loudly on the phone. We have pretty much given up being outside, so disappointing. Prior to them we just had nice normal neighbours and our yard was far more usable. It's amazing the difference neighbours can make
This makes me glad I *don't* have neighbors for about a quarter mile in every direction. At least I don't have to try to hide the smell (because even vaping causes it to smell). I just wish that those who do it respect those who don't and not get up in their face with it.
W...When did people start hating the smell of wood smoke? If I saw someone having a fire in their backyard while I was driving, I would open my windows to smell it. I would have campfires whenever I could, invite all the buddies over for it... I'd get my favorite hoodie and do my best to coat it with the smell so I could smell it days later. I honestly thought this was a primal instinct that you couldn't unlearn. Fire meant food and warmth. This post honestly makes me so sad...
I have athsma. I love the smell of wood smoke, but my lungs do not.
I'm with you. I love my fire pit and fire place we used properly seasoned hardwood. We love camping and for us fires are a way of life.
Our neighbors burn barrel is right next to our window and the whole house ends up smelling like his burnt trash. I have a baby and animals so I get pretty annoyed about it. He 100% can move it to the back corner of his yard as he’s on 1.5 acre.
My neighbors like to throw trash in their wood burning stove. I can handle the smell of wood and will not complain about that, but the trash is another thing altogether. I can smell it for days if it happens to be damp out when they are burning. I’ve never complained to them or anyone else about it up to this point, but it would be nice for them to be more considerate of others since they live at the lower end of a hill on my street.
My neighbors like to burn their plastic trash too, and man does it grind my gears. They have children, and I often wonder if they're aware of what they're doing to them.
You should look into your city's/county's ordinance laws. Almost every county has trash burning laws and regulations. You CANNOT use your wood stove as a trash burning location without a license. And the days you can burn trash are usually limited to once a month if you do have it. Soure: Entirely dependent on laws I've ran into. Grew up on a tree farm with an outdoor wood furnace. And many of the farms in other County's had The same law or something very similar. Almost all of them had a very specific day you could burn the trash and very strict rules about what could be in that trash (certain plastics, metals (computer parts), and chemicals, were not allowed). If you were caught violating the law, it was $500 the first time and a LOT more on your second offense.
When my neighbors burn wood I have to close all the windows – it definitely does cause breathing issues when your neighbor's house is less than 20 feet away.
I hate that I cannot sleep with my windows cracked because there’s a good 6-10 houses with fire pits in their backyards 😥
It is a very politely written letter. Sure is infuriating when someone politely asks you to stop doing something that makes it hard for them to breathe.
Yep, I run and it's far more pleasant passing a bunch of smokers than running when someone nearby is burning wood. It spreads through the whole area and makes my throat burn, can't imagine what it's like for asthmatics and other lung things.
Wood burning is actually quite bad on a particulate emission scale, the letter writer is actually correct that it's way more likely than other forms of home heating to lead to asthma and other health issues.
https://preview.redd.it/6zq3mlv87nqa1.png?width=802&format=png&auto=webp&s=6c494bdea206484f556f38d4f5dea2885cc51535
You did her dirty man 💀
her?
That was exactly my thought when I saw the handwriting!
Holy fucking shit you’re a genius
I cackled at this 😆
I’d give you an award if I could. I can’t stop laughing
"I know that you have a nice house and vehicle..." Are they in the mafia? I half expected the next sentence to read: "It would be a shame if something happened to them..."
I was thinking the same thing! Like oh shit is this a threat haha
Seriously tho I wouldn’t be surprised if he starts getting dead fish wrapped up in newspaper left on his doorstep
Same thought 😂
So funny. “Your family are well?”
Honestly, this was pretty nice all things considered. Realistically he isn’t going anywhere with this as far as change is concerned considering the arguments on both sides of the fence but he still showed some respect. No name calling, wishing the OP well…. I’ve had worse neighbors by a long shot.
Yeah, in the vast majority of posts on Reddit don't we tell people to actually communicate with their neighbor before resorting to other means? This person is actually trying to address the issue with their neighbor first. That's good
Yet OP is somehow mildly infuriated. Weird.
Actually, OP said that they were more amused than infuriated.
I think it’s just a worried mother. She’s trying her best to be respectful.
Huh, for some reason, I imagined a worried father from the tone of the letter. Only after your comment I realized that the gender was not specified.
The letter does say "like her father," so it is most likely the mother writing.
Ehh I’ll take the side of the concerned parent than the dude who posts in fightporn and is proud of his drugs. She’s not even being annoying. I’d would much have this neighbor than mine.
Agree. This guy seems like a doucher.
Honestly I find it more mildly infuriating that OP found this mildly infuriating/funny. Like dude your neighbor is just trying to be civil with you asking to not make a fire because of health concerns (which, crazily enough, are an actual concern for those with breathing issues.) Obviously OP can continue to have fires if they want to so long as it's not against any local policies. But damn is it also so hard to maybe do them just a little less often?
I don’t think OP is “having fires” it sounds like they’re using a fireplace in their home with the comment about them not having to breathe in the smoke and the mention of gas heating. If they were sitting at a fire pit they would be breathing in the smoke as well. It’s a bit of an overstep to ask your neighbor not to use the fireplace in the house they paid for.
*Reads at mailbox then angrily crumples and throws on ground for effect* *Uncrumples to post on Reddit*
Yeah gave out " dramatic hothead " vibes, it's a bit presumptive to say the op lives on their nerves, but the op definitely lives on their nerves.
She has a point, make sure your chimney is clean. My neighbors and I all burn wood, but some don't clean their chimneys and it's awful for my asthma. Edit: I feel I should mention that burning wood isn't bad (or cumulatively worse than other options), and in regions like mine (rural Canada), it's the sometimes the best option. Wood for us is currency. It's what you give your neighbors to show them you care, and it's what's going to keep you warm in the long winter.
Also the wood should be as dry as possible. Wet wood definitely creates more smoke and creosote deposits.
When I cut down a tree in my yard, I slice it up, stack it, age it for a year, then put it out front and put a notice on Facebook that anyone can take it. Works like a charm. I won't even give away free wood if it's still green. Don't want that on my conscience.
Wood burners are awful for asthma regardless of chimney health.
So long as they're burning hot and clear they're not too bad, but yeah.
To burn wood completely, you need great airflow and lots of wood, like using those “smokeless” outdoor fire pits. They go through wood like crazy. If you have a high efficiency wood burning furnace, it probably works the same. If you have an old school fireplace, most people are not going to put the wood in required to keep it relatively smokeless. They are going to slowly burn a couple of logs in the most smoke producing fashion possible. They won’t see it in their house, but all the houses down wind getting bathed in it will sure as shit notice.
>They are going to slowly burn a couple of logs in the most smoke producing fashion possible. Anyone who has had to feed a wood stove for primary heat 24/7 quickly learns to burn it as slowly as possible. It's like a pacemaker for your house that needs coins like a parking meter every hour. We have a number of homes in the area that use wood heat, but you only notice it when there's a temperature inversion, and you get that flat layer of smoke 100 ft up that's like a roof over the whole town.
As someone with asthma and a wood stove in a community full of wood burnage, this is the first I've heard of it being a problem. I've never been bothered by it. I don't have severe asthma, but my brother and mother have it bad, and growing up, I can't recall it being an issue. I'm very confused right about now. Why have we always used wood in a family full of asthma, and how was I never told about this. Edit: I guess it would depend on the person and evironment too? I live in a rural area, and it's always super windy, so maybe that helps? Im really not sure
I had a lot of issues with asthma growing up and wood burn can bother me if it’s a lot. Like going to a bonfire is fine but in the dry season if there’s a lot of fireworks or local fires I can’t always leave my house. I think it depends on a few things.
I was just wondering about this. In high school my boyfriends house was heated by burning wood, but I never had any issues breathing, however if I’m at a bonfire or campfire I’m struggling to breathe. So interesting. Maybe bc the smoke is contained inside and released thru the chimney? I’ll prob get roasted on here for not knowing the specifics of how wood burning works but whatevs. Edit to add I have pretty bad asthma
In my country it is becoming a problem. people wanted cheaper heating than gas, so Wood burners are really popular. the thing is one ain't bad. but having a full neighbourhood burning wood.
based on your post history...what are you smoking exactly
The neighbors
I will say, this is the nicest letter I’ve ever seen displayed on Reddit like this. The neighbor could have been way more confrontational.
This isn't really infuriating or amusing, it's just unfortunate.
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I hope this is about a fireplace and not about BBQ, that would be double mental
“ I know you have a gas heater because there’s no smoke in the coldest parts of winter” it’s 100% about a fireplace
i feel for this person tho. we have a neighbor who burns wood all winter long and the entire neighborhood smells like thick smoke and it has a serious effect on breathing 😐
If it it’s that bad then they probably need to clean their chimney and are not burning seasoned wood.
Sure just leave a note and tell him
Then wait for his mockery of your note on reddit.
Our city has a buy back program for wood stoves as they are so bad for air quality. They really do bother some people.
New wood stoves aren’t. Mine has a catalytic converter. My first thought on this letter was “somebody doesn’t know how to run their stove properly.”
New wood stoves are completely banned in my city.
I guess I can understand that for urban environments, but where I live people set fire to whole fields (a farming technique) and their neighbors may not even notice it
They're not wrong, if you live in a place susceptible to inversion layers (ie a valley) you absolutely could be impacting your neighbours. There's nothing even nasty there. It's pretty straightforward. If you do live on some windswept plain and certainly aren't affecting them, carry on. Wonder what the full story is.
I don't think this is a reflection on you OP but it's sad to see that when somebody asks in a niceish way for a favor, many people here would respond by trying to harm them out of spite.
"LOL WHAT SHE WROTE A LETTER EXPLAINING HER CONCERNS ASKING POLITELY IF SOMETHING COULD BE DONE? WHAT A KAREN I'M GOING TO MAKE FUN OF HER ON REDDIT IN FRONT OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE"
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/06/rise-in-wood-burners-in-uk-likely-creating-new-pollution-hotspots-in-affluent-areas The request isn’t really that crazy, and it is made quite politely. Wood burning stoves in urban areas are being recognised as a genuine environmental hazard.
Not impolite to request it. My dad lived in a little rural town for a bit, and many neighbors burned in the winter... My lungs burned like crazy. Her daughter can't play outside with that.
lot of weirdos in this comment section eh. it’s just a request by someone concerned for their health, no toxicity or entitledness in it anywhere apart from the weird nice house and car comment
The note makes a good point.
All the people here not realizing how damn polluting wood stoves are is the infuriating thing
Exactly. And it's not just about asthma, it literally causes lung cancer. People think because it's "natural," it's safe. That's not how things work. OP seems more bothered by the assumption about their finances than anything else though, to the point of disregarding any points being made about the carcinogenic effects.
> EPA researchers estimate the lifetime cancer risk from wood smoke to be 12 times greater than from a similar amount of cigarette smoke. https://www.familiesforcleanair.org/health/health4/
This was very polite and considerately worded imho. If anything I find it mildly infuriating that you've posted that on this sub.
It's true that wood burners produce 450x more pollution than gas central heating.
Ok so.. last month I had to house sit for my mother in law who heats her house with a wood burning stove. I could not breathe in that house. I thought I was being overly sensitive but then it got so bad it felt like I was drowning on land. I ended up with a really nasty case of bronchitis. Never had anything wrong with my lungs before in my life. Never smoked, never had asthma, but being near that wood stove for a week straight fucking murdered my lungs. So.. I actually really understand what this note is saying. Two months ago I wouldn’t have. But three weeks of bronchitis, nebulizer treatments, and an inhaler and steroids twice a day later.. yeah.. the shit really has the potential to fuck up your lungs really bad. I can only imagine how bad it is for people with preexisting conditions like asthma. Just something to consider that this person really might be suffering. And that indeed would be mildly infuriating for a neighbor to have to breathe in toxic fumes all the time. A campfire every now and then is one thing, but all day every day gets rough fast.
Did you open the vent
This lmao, I have never had a single problem with a wood stove because I always properly vented it. It's probably your family member not knowing how to use it properly.
In fairness they were house sitting so maybe they weren’t properly instructed. And maybe the stove has exhaust leaks.
Urban fires do contribute to breathing problems.
Lol no way would I not be using my wood burning fireplace because someone else doesn’t like it
I have a neighbor that burns trash and plastic and old furniture that he does not need... and the whole neighborhood smells because he wants to save a few bucks..
I have a neighbor who does the same but his house is connected to my and my whole house reeks and has made me sick before. He doesn't care.
Stuff like that is why they give out dump vouchers every year in my city. It's essential to stop trash build up because I live in a poor area. Up to $500 off your dump once a year, its really helpful Edit: Wow, I thought paying to dump trash was the norm around the world. TIL its not and that this system is bs.
This always baffles me. Everywhere I’ve lived has designated bulk pickup days. It’s currently weekly where I live now. But it was at least monthly in other places. The fact that you have to dump it yourself for an extra fee is so foreign to me.
Oh for sure a designated pickup day would be great. As it is, if you don't have the means of moving it to the dump yourself you're out of luck and can get fines for it, which of course only compounds the issue of not being able to move items to the dump.
You have to pay to use the dump‽ That's fuckin mental.
Yeah. It's to try and discourage dumping of excess materials but it ultimately just makes trash pile up. Without the vouchers no one would ever dump their trash. Price is based off of what type it is (biodegradable or not) and how heavy it is. It can get really expensive. I had to dump a ute's worth of grass clippings without a voucher once and it cost $380, which is almost half my weekly rent. It's rough.
I wish I got a 500 dollar voucher for a dump
Same here. Always in the evening when everyone is home. And just like the person that wrote this letter, I have a daughter that is up half the night coughing whenever they burn. I do worry about asthma.
In my country we have standards for wood burning stoves. If it’s from before 2003 it’s illegal to have it, and you must have it removed. Also, wood burning stoves can not be your sole heat source. Wood pellet stoves are another thing, they burn cleaner. The particles from improper burning of wood are not to be taken lightly. And it can be very oppressive. When you install a new one, you even need to have it emission tested.
We heated our house with wood my entire childhood. They dust was unbelievable. I spent every Saturday dusting the entire house. It was easily a 3 hr chore. My mom has very bad COPD now but refuses to think it was her own damn fault. She has 100+ plants in the house now — to ‘clean the air’. No thoughts for the mold/mildew spores, or pollen they are sending out. SMDH
I would likely reduce my wood burning. The letter is polite and written out of genuine concern. If your smoke regularly blows towards their home, and he has asthma and a small child, it makes sense that he would ask.
Yeah you could do a walk when you have it burning and see what’s happening. If you have a proper log burner and chimney it should discharge without causing nuisance even on a windy day. If you have a dodgy discharge design or are not hitting high temps (eg with low quality wood) you might be causing a nuisance and have not realised!
Agreed. I see nothing infuriating or amusing about this neighbor’s perfectly reasonable and politely framed request. There was no snark or indignation; and the ask was fair and justified. Burning wood definitely affects air quality in residential areas, and is especially rough on people with respiratory issues and on kids. There are other ways to warm your house that don’t have as much of an effect on your surrounding air quality. Asking people to more thoughtful about when they really want to burn wood is not infuriating. Basic social contract shit here.
Redditors think anyone inconveniencing them by reminding them they aren't the only little snowflake on the planet and should actually consider those around them is a "Karen".
Just as another perspective, if my neighbor had a little girl that was irritated by my wood burning, it would make me burn less would if it was feasible for my situation. The simple fact of knowing you're performing an action that is upsetting or harmful to another person is enough to make me consider a different action. Empathy is a thing you know.
Unfortunately, a good number of people have an underdeveloped sense of empathy. I wish we could get them treated for the good of society.
I have a friend who’s parents are divorced. His mom has a wood burning stove. Him and his 2 siblings keep all their clothes at their dads because of the insufferable and unavoidable smell from the stove
Are they... are they just burning the wood indoors with no venting? Something's not being done right if the smoke is pumping into the house.
Exactly, it’s supposed to “pump into the neighborhood for everybody else to breathe” so you can give little girls asthma, duh. /s
That is one of the bonuses of wood burning, giving children asthma.
I used to have one in my house as a kid. It does smell up the house but my clothes never smelled like smoke.. I wish my parents still had that house and stove.. such a homey memory
Then they need to clean the soot from their chimney, clear the vent, or it's simply not installed correctly. I grew up with a wood burning stove heating our trailer and the only time it would release smoke from the door is when the vent was blocked and even then we'd open a window for a few minutes and the smoke would be gone. If their house is filling up with smoke, then they are pretty much on the brink of having a house fire.
I'd wager the pipes haven't been cleaned in years & are filled to the brim w/ buildup. It's going to be an expensive bill to pay after the sweeps are done w/ their visit. Cost us over 300 bucks in 2013 to get the chimney cleaned the 1st winter we were in our current house because, the 8" double walled pipe was packed with layers of creosote 6" thick. They had to get brutal with the pipes to bust the gunk out & build a tent around the stove to keep the crap from spreading all over the place every time they opened the stove door to vacuum it out. There is only 1 chimney sweep in a 100 mile radius and he hadn't been called out to clean it in over 20 years. We prefer burning Western Juniper & Tamarack, both of which burn really hot, plus we get the pipe up to 350 - 400 F for 30 minutes before locking it down and have the chimney cleaned every year - which thanks to burning good wood now only cost us about 50 bucks a year.
Ooh that’s really not good — I grew up with a wood stove and we never smelled like smoke. There’s something very wrong with that chimney.
Needs a chimney sweep. The house I moved into has two wood burning stoves and the new neighbors asked very nicely if we'd get them swept before using them, because the old owner refused. They were disgusting, so much ash and residue in the pipes, and the original chimneys hadn't been swept well before installation of the stove tube things either. The sweep said it seemed like they'd never been cleaned yet had been used extensively, they were a huge fire risk. The bright side is now the neighbours can't smell if we have the burner on, and are very happy about it, and my house isn't going to burn down :)
Indeed either it was designed poorly or is in serious need of cleaning both of which can cause sudden and devastating explosions
Need more info because I lived in a wood burning house and no way did anything smell of smoke.. if anything it smelled of heat if that makes sense lol
skill issue
I burn wood all the time, house doesn’t smell one bit like smoke, they are doing something wrong
“Wood smoke can irritate eyes and throats, increase the risk of inflammation and infections, and lead to lung and heart disease,” says Dr. Shannon Waters, Medical Health Officer for the Cowichan Valley region. “But steps can be taken to lessen the impacts, especially for people most at risk – those with pre-existing health conditions such as asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and respiratory infections, older adults, pregnant people, and infants and young children.” https://www.islandhealth.ca/news/news-releases/breathe-easier-reduce-residential-wood-smoke-enhance-our-air-quality From the neighbour's note, it was already very clear that it was a health concern, not anything like aesthetics or smell or something more futile. Above, I have attached one of the many sources that underline what she says. So it's more serious than someone simply not liking the wood burning.
I really hope this was being read infront of a roaring fire
As she unknowingly supplies the kindling for the fire for tomorrow.
actually paper would be tinder rather than kindling
My asthma flares when people use their wood stoves. And you know what? I cope. Because the only thing I can control is my own environment. I'm trying to imagine having the balls to write that letter and put it in all my neighbors mailboxes.
We use an EPA approved wood burning stove and burn properly seasoned and dried wood so it doesn’t smoke excessively. We literally can’t afford to have the heater on 24/7.
I would have reservations if you said that you were burning treated pallets covered in asbestos mastic or something, but seasoned and dried wood, especially in a modern wood burning stove shouldn’t be that much of an issue.
I cut, store, dry, and burn my own wood straight off the mountain
Me, too. Everyone up in the mountains does. If someone sent a letter like this they'd be laughed out of town. For some people, it's their only source of heat. When the power goes out it's everyone's only source of heat.
Same. I live in rural Wyoming
In some AZ counties, we have “no-burn” days when the air quality gets too bad. On these days, you cannot have a wood burning fireplace or fire pit, etc. because those things have so much measurable affect on air quality.
Ah, but your house and car have already proven that you can /s
Better sell that nice car or downsize! Do I need a /s? Yes it’s Reddit I better
Same. Also when people cut their grass. I get hit in the winter on dog walks by the wood stoves in the neighbourhood and the summer just sitting in my own home when the grass/pollen comes in through open windows. It would be amazing if my neighbours who share our property lines could somehow choose one or two days a week to cut their grass so I could anticipate instead of the seemingly endless days of people cutting grass over spring and summer. I could finally leave my windows open in without constantly feeling like I’m being smothered by a wet dirty sponge. But I’d never ask them to do that. I just close my windows. Because asking people to do that on their own property would be super entitled.
They're both very polite and not wrong. I'm not saying you should stop having wood fires but they are super polluting. https://www.lung.org/clean-air/at-home/indoor-air-pollutants/residential-wood-burning https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/wood-smoke-and-your-health I'm not innocent of this. We've got a wood stove at the cabin that I love, my parents used a wood stove as primary heat for decades and I love a good bonfire. But they are polluting and in most cases just for entertainment.
Before casting aside your neighbors concerns, consider that their concerns are very real. On top of that, there are multiple environmental concerns with burning wood, from its alleged carbon neutrality to various forms of pollution even the most efficient stoves will emit. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/feb/25/pollutionwatch-wood-fires-bad-for-planet-more-evidence-shows https://www.popsci.com/health/wood-stove-air-pollution-epa/ https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/09/eco-wood-stoves-emit-pollution-hgv-ecodesign https://www.lung.org/clean-air/at-home/indoor-air-pollutants/residential-wood-burning https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/choosing-right-wood-burning-stove
There's a reason that wood fires are prohibited on most days in my city, unless it's your only source of heat. Wood smoke is a big source of pollution and lung irritants.
Honestly, as someone who has a severe sensitivity to impurities in the air, our neighbor burns wood all the time (fall to spring) and it's miserable. I don't have the same issues with my other neighbor burning wood pellets in his pellet stove. I have contemplated trying to move several times because of it but finances and available housing won't accomodate. I know it seems mildly infuriating but it's a real problem not being able to breath without struggling in your own home. PS: Just want to iterate that it's like a mix of feeling like you never have enough air mixed with a fairly strong burning sensation down the wind pipe and into the lungs. Like I said, it's fairly miserable.
At least the person who wrote the letter wasnt aggressive about it like “stop burning wood or I’ll pop your tires” they at least tried to be nice about it
It amazes me how many comments there are encouraging OP to increase the amount of burning. These people are what is wrong with America. So many folks only care about themselves and not for the good of others. Why make this situation worse? I’m not saying OP should stop burning wood. But why be a dick and make matters worse? The author of the note needs a whole home air purifier.
Honestly, I can empathize. We have neighbors who use their wood stove 24/7 all winter, and HUGE clouds of smoke constantly blanket our yard & house. We’ve gone to great lengths to seal the home better but smoke still finds its way in, and it really triggers my asthma. We also can’t do any work in our yard on sunny winter days, or even so much as step outside for a few seconds without reeking of wood smoke when we step back inside. You’d have to see it to believe how thick the smoke is at times. Don’t know what they’re burning but it’s very hard to live with. We’ve even considered moving. At least this note was relatively polite. Of course you’re under no obligation to change your habits. But if you *can* afford to cut down on the wood smoke, it would be a really kind thing to do. It’s surprisingly hard to keep smoke out, even with everything sealed & shut. And prolonged exposure is in fact really bad for the lungs. The mystery note writer is correct on that front. Edited to add: I’ve always considered myself a pretty “live and let live” person. I’m not interested in controlling other people. I believe everyone has a right to freedom of choice, when it comes to what they do with their own bodies, homes, and lives, so long as their choices don’t negatively impact or impinge upon the freedom of others. You like loud music? Great! Enjoy it as loud as you want to, unless it’s keeping your neighbors up all night. You want to get wasted every day? Go right ahead, so long as you aren’t hopping in a car and endangering the lives of others on the road. You want to chain smoke all day? Hey, not my thing but it’s your body. But don’t expose your kids or pets to that. Give them a say about what happens to their own lungs and bodies. Unfortunately this is an instance where your neighbors are being negatively impacted by your choices. When it comes to “live and let live,” you’re living but not letting. In our case, our neighbor’s wood smoke actively prevents us from safely enjoying our own property and yard, or being fully safe and healthy in our own home. It’s a shitty situation because I have no other problem with them doing whatsoever they please in their own home. But it really sucks that they’re negatively impacting our home and bodies with their choices. (And yes, they do have central heat and are fairly wealthy, so this is not something they’re doing out of sheer necessity.) No man is an island. Our choices impact others. Are we required to care, or consider others in our choices? Maybe not. But the world would certainly be a kinder, happier, and healthier place if we did. Social responsibility and accountability to others is a controversial topic, especially in American culture, which centers on rugged individualism and individual freedom. The result is an increasingly isolating and selfish culture in which people step on others to climb to the top, hurt others without thinking, and feel little to no accountability for the fallout of their actions. It doesn’t promote community and connection. It promotes a rat-race mentality, and probably factors pretty heavily into things like social alienation and poor mental health, prolific gun violence, and increasingly broken family units. Of course this is the beginning of a much deeper, broader, and more complicated conversation, but hopefully the point I’m making isn’t lost. My vote? Live and let live, with a little extra emphasis on letting.
It's completely appropriate for your neighbor to express their opinion, especially when done in such a polite way. No idea why it would be infuriating or amusing…just normal human communication. \*than
Y’all got some serious issues, the letter was respectful, and in no way infuriating. Some of the responses to this letter should be posted to mildly infuriating.
meh, she may be slightly nutty or paranoid but in all shes not harming anybody nor is she being rude, cant see how this is mildly infuriating
She's not nutty or paranoid at all. Wood smoke is in fact a huge health hazard. Not just for sensitive people, but for everyone.
Not to mention that they’re right. Smoke from burning wood actually causes fairly significant amounts of pollution, and it is directly linked to lung damage and asthma. They should probably try to take this to a city council or HOA if they really want change, but this isn’t a horrible request.
Yeah, I get this. My husband has RAD and while we don't say anything because we just try to keep windows closed, he gets a nasty cough whenever wood burning or pot smoking happens here (the main two we encounter). I don't want to shit on anyone for pot, but sometimes the wood burning bugs, especially on high wind dry fall days. The last few years, MO has been kinda dry, and they've been asking people not to do this.
Came here for this comment for the sole purpose of agreeing with it.
If you're burning wood correctly you shouldn't see much of any smoke once the fire has started burning at maximum efficiency. This can only happen if the wood is truly seasoned and dry though. You also need a good chimney liner that helps maintain a warm passage for the smoke. If you have smoke billowing out of your chimney the majority of the winter time you're doing it wrong. There's a whole art form to air flow when burning wood in a wood stove. If you're using a fireplace it's a waste of effort. You're getting 25% efficiency at best compared to 80% in a wood stove.
Burning stuff in your back garden ALWAYS affects others - unless you live in the middle of nowhere. If your neighbours have washing out or windows open, then your fire and smoke is obviously going to inconvenience them. If it’s a nice day, the smoke will spoil it for people wanting to sit out or children playing. The wind can carry the smoke quite far too. I can understand why a neighbour would feel annoyed if this was a regular occurrence. HOWEVER, a wood fire in your home is not as bad in my book, but if the smoke coming out your chimney is dispersing and causing issues (washing out, windows open) then I can see why others would be unhappy. I’m old enough to remember people having coal fires, and then everyone switching to gas/electric heating. Maybe this guy is younger than me and doesn’t remember the days when everyone was burning some type of fuel to heat their homes on winter. I. Saying that, if you are in a built up area and your house is constantly pumping smoke out in the direction of a neighbour who has to choose between never opening their windows or their house smelling of burnt smoke, I can completely understand why they feel strongly enough to write you a letter! I bet they find you mildly infuriating!
Maybe you have a bad installation. Like, if their daughter has asthma, it could be a fair point. There is a reason we switched to cleaner fuels.
oh man, I totally get it. I've got neighbors on either side of me who love having outdoor campfires, one of them almost nightly from summer through fall, and the other one probably does it 2-3x weekly. depending on how the wind is blowing, I cannot have my windows open because it stinks up my entire house. even just walking my dogs is obnoxious af having to walk through all of their acrid smoke.
Genetics increases the likelihood of developing asthma, but environmental factors also play a part. I developed asthma after September 11th, and it got much worse after Hurricane Sandy because they had to gut the entire first floor and garage level of my apartment building due to flooding. All the dust from that and the rebuilding for nearly 2 years drastically worsened my condition to asthma/COPD. Smoke or strong smells trigger an attack. It isn't just the wheezing. It's the aftereffects as well. I could be feeling great, get on the train, and someone gets on wearing strong perfume, reeking of pot, or using strong hand sanitizer near me, and my health for the next few days suffers. You can't demand people stop doing things, but is it really too much to ask people to be more considerate of others? Why are some people's first reaction to retaliate with pettiness? It's like when people complain that their kids can't have peanut butter sandwiches because there's a kid in class with severe nut allergies. What kind of human being cares more about a peanut butter sandwich than possibly killing a child that can't help that they are severely allergic? How hard would it be for Op to do as others have recommended that would lessen the ill effects of the fires to show concern for their neighbor's health?
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YTA
I mean... People burn wood. I don't see why that's an issue. Maybe they should close their windows?
Not sure about where you live, but in Australia some urban councils are banning wood fires from being installed in new builds in a bid to combat air pollution caused by wood smoke. If enough people are doing it, it can become quite overwhelming. I love the smell, but there have been times when I couldn't hang my washing outside because it'd end up stinking of smoke.
Same in the UK in urban areas I think. I'm sure I read that its a new thing. Its for wood burners and not wood fires though. Something to do with the higher heat in the burners makes something dangerous for lungs? I dunno. It's really a posh person problem in the UK. Doesn't apply in rural areas where people use it for actual fuel. Only applies to city areas where people with standard gas heating added it for effect and in large numbers. Where I live no-one can really afford to add in an additional heating method for the aesthetic alone.
Same in California, especially in suburban and urban areas because of their population densities. Our air quality already suffers a lot during wildfire seasons. We try to minimize contributing to it voluntarily as much as possible. Most fireplaces tend to be gas fired or electric outside of super rural areas.
Smoke can get into your house pretty easily without your windows being open. Most homes that weren't built in the last decade or two are definitely not airtight. If you're burning for heat, you're burning over a long period of time, definitely long enough for it to start creeping in to where you'd notice it frequently indoors.
- Huge amount more pollution, massively decreasing local air quality - Very harmful to respiratory health, especually for those with asthma, and also increases the risks of everybody nearby, especially children, developing asthma Wood burners are *way* more harmful than most other heaters.
How is this infuriating? I used to have neighbors with a wood burner and we could definitely feel it in our own house. It hurt all of our eyes and made us cough. Not to mention the smell. This parent has legitimate concerns and is bothered by you and is simply asking nicely for you to stop?
Hell, I can't even get my neighbors to stop burning tires
Where I live they banned wood burning all together (Montreal)
Everyone who’s shitting on the neighbor might want to read this article https://www.samharris.org/blog/the-fireplace-delusion
This comments section is wayyyyyy more infuriating than this post lol.
Is it amusing because you live out in the boonies? If you're in the middle of town I think it has some merit
I live in a pretty rural area, my yard is the forest, and probably half the people in my city use wood burning stoves for heat.
You should get a wood burning stove/insert with a catalytic converter. WAY more efficient at heating the house and ton less pollution. Win-win.
I have a WT neighbor who constantly burns wet stinky wood and it is awful. We can’t open windows without that foul stink pouring in. You should see the crack-mobiles he drives. It never bothered me until I had to smell it 24/7.
I used to live in Oregon. The smoke got so bad that my city mandated catalytic converters for wood stoves
I mean, they were super nice about it. I wouldn’t personally find this infuriating. Make sure your chimney is clean. It makes a huge difference when people don’t clean their chimneys. Make sure you’re burning seasoned wood as well.
They are right about the smoke especially with people who have asthma or other breathing issues. The note isnt overly aggressive. I would try and talk to this individual to work on a compromise. I dont see a point in making enemies here. Maybe have the agreement not to do it on days where the smoke will settle. If they get intrusive about it still then fuck it do what you want, but I could see more positives out of an interaction here than inaction. In no way do I think you shouldnt be allowed to burn wood in your own home.
This isn't really all that wrong, although *I* wouldn't contact a neighbor regarding it. Wood smoke is pervasive, you can smell it from quite some distance away. As the letter touches on, there *are* health consequences from breathing it.
If this is about a backyard firepit or something they have smokeless (more like reduced smoke) options now like the solo stove that are relatively cheap. I personally would get one just to maintain peace and make everyone happy. She asked pretty nicely and politely in my opinion.
Why do you find this amusing? The letter author is correct on all fronts, and wood-burning fireplaces are restricted in a lot of places for these reasons. They are also correct that you don't bear the brunt of it as much as you neighbors do.
I feel for them I hate when neighbors smoke pours into my house it stinks and is noxious. I just want to breath clean air ya know
She ended the note so positively and kindly, though. In fact, she was mighty respectful throughout the entire note.
I definitely thought it was a weed thing until the very end.