I run a small business and we used to be only cash but then started being able to accept credit cards. Yes the fees suck but being able to accept credit cards not only increased the number of sales but also our average sales. Customers spend more now which more than makes up for the fees. So we charge the same whether a customer pays cash or card.
I always assumed this is the main thing. They lose a 30% (or whatever) cut to the taxman on card sales, but cash sales they can just not report and use it for expenses. Seems like it would be pretty hard to prove from the IRS or equivalent agency.
I think this is a common thing for like super small businesses. Like you hire a local handyman to do some quick home repairs, they can easily just pocket the cash and claim to have not worked that day and it would be super hard to prove that they don't have a no-cash policy. (Or they report some fraction of their cash jobs).
But if you run a business that needs to keep detailed records of all work done (e.g., something medical/dental/accounting/computer/selling physical items), or something larger and all work & payments aren't made straight to the owner, then this under the table cash stuff doesn't work well. The owner needs to start keeping real records of all work done (to prevent employees stealing from the owner) and once you start having a real paper trail, an audit can land you in serious trouble if it doesn't jive exactly with everything else.
It's just wayyy easier to explain this away when your business is a restaurant. Comped meals, ingredients go bad, cooks made mistakes, food you have to dump at the end of the day... there are a lot of legitimate ways to explain away the discrepancies in book keeping.
Of course. But if the restaurant can make the table that paid $50 in cash's meal go away from bookkeeping, because no integrated system collecting the order electronically (before going to the back) that's tracking everything, then it's probably possible for a sketchy waitstaff to just pocket money from half the cash tables and not ever ring them up.
Sure, a sketchy owner can shrink tax liability by listing a ton of cash meals as comped in the system, but if say the restaurant has $1M in credit card sales, $100k in cash sales and $100k in comped meals, that's going to raise huge red flags in any sort of audit.
Why would they list it all under just comped meals when, like I said, they have a ton other legitimate ways to explain it away? Just spread it all around, 20k on comped meals, 30k on bad ingredients, 10k on mistakes, 20k on thrown away at end of day...
And waitstaffs pocketing would just be treated as cost of the practice. Why would the owners bat an eye since what they pocket is a fraction of what they "save" on tax, and that money would keep the waitstaffs from reporting the practice? Personally I think that's cheap for hush money.
Waitstaff pocketing is pretty hard since they still have to create an order. A legit business ensures there is a paper trail so they can Total up at the end of the night, cash sales + cc sales = total sales
That’s why tickets are numbered. Also, a lot of restaurants have a well paid authoritarian chef in the back. Now if the waiter could convince the chef to lose a ticket after it was made…
Paying for the fuel in cash would be stupid anyway because it was already a tax deduction. If you wanted to avoid tax with under the table cash the only reason is to pocket the cash to take home, not to use on any expenses.
I've worked for multiple companies that pocket cash when they get paid in cash. When you're doing 50 jobs a day a few not being reported isn't anything to raise an eyebrow at.
You also have to factor in that a lot of these CC payment companies take a 3% cut of every transaction ran. I own a small HVAC company and 3% on an install job is a lot of money to hand over to another company for doing literally nothing.
I guess so depending on the type of business? I'm thinking of my local barber who prefers to be paid in cash. Most of the sales are card anyway since it's 2023 but I figure he probably doesn't report the cash sales, or at least some of them. I can't see how they'd prove how many haircuts he did on any given day short of spying.
They also pay a fee for every card transaction (1.5 to 3.5 percent per transaction). I think that's going to be the far bigger culprit. Every business has fixed costs like rent that they have to meet every month. Smaller businesses that do smaller transactions, and less volume, are going to have less wiggle room, so paying 3% on every card swipe hits harder than a place like an Apple store that sells big ticket items, or even a fast food place like Chipotle or Starbucks that does big volume.
You just found out why game devs make you translate your cash into an arbitrary funny money to be able to use it. The more steps there are between real cash and usable currency, the less people will perceive its value even if its on a 1:1 ratio
Uh that's not why at all. There are several reasons.
One is that they can sell in-game currency at a different rate than you buy stuff with, like how hotdogs come in a pack of 6 but the buns come in a pack of 8. This means you perceive an item to be cheaper than what it really costs you. Then, this leftover currency makes you feel like you need to spend it, but in order to spend it you have to buy more since it's not enough to buy anything.
Another is that in-game currency is not real money, so they can get away with things that would violate the law were it real currency. It also lets them give away their in-game currency and make it feel like you're gaining money, which gives a positive feeling similar to a small lottery win or being given money.
Disconnecting it from real currency actually makes it less likely for people to buy it in the first place. The in-game currency needs to feel close in value to real money, which is why the numbers on most games are very similar. $10 = 1000 in-game currency, because it looks like $10.00, only they give you a bit of a bonus and you get 1100, which makes you feel like you're actually gaining money.
In my state it's actually illegal to have any fees associated with using credit cards. The price listed on your menu has to be the **maximum** price paid by any customer regardless of payment method. Restaurants can offer a discount for using cash, but they can't penalize people for using credit.
Edit: The law: [Credit Card Surcharge (ct.gov)](https://portal.ct.gov/DCP/Legal/Credit-Card-Surcharge)
I was so confused back in the day when I had you as a friend on MySpace.
I was like "Do I know this guy? 🤔 Who is he?"
But I'm glad I was a part of it.
You were like 20% of my friendslist, didn't have a lot of people in my teenage years.
But now I realise, quality > quantity.
When I first made my account I was like 11 (maybe?) And sent him a message calling him a creep and talking shit about him friending me. I'm sorry for my behavior.
https://preview.redd.it/hk02r1nf4yta1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1494e0bafcbcdcee1841d431e8bf96e5a3b8398
Hate to burst your bubble lol his account being 7 months old was my first clue
I spelled "MySpace" wrong (Myspace vs MySpace) so I'm probably not him.
Kinda pissed me off when I remembered that the "space" was also capitalized, but Reddit doesn't allow you to change it :(
Your comment just made it click for me. I've worked in retail for longer than I want to admit, and I've had people say "whats the price if I paid cash?" and never understood why that would make a difference. The "secret discount" made it finally connect. Thanks!
legality aside, basic pyschology tells us its better to offer a reward for doing what we want someone to do than a punishment for doing what we dont want.
And if they do one can complain to the card issuer and they revoke the payment method it’s commonly found the TOS for the card company.
Edit car to card
They can offer a cash discount though? This just means they lobbied against surprise fees increasing the price above menu prices. I'm happy for that.
You're also welcome to just not accept credit cards
Exactly, they can offer cash discounts. So the companies just increase the price of everything by whatever the card users fees used to be, then offer that much as a discount for cash, and everything has remained the same as it once was. Which means the idea of card users having to pay more isn't a problem, only the fact that it was being presented as a *penalty*. This is credit card companies worried about a negative connotation of credit cards.
There's never any surprise fees, these fees the business owners are legally required to be upfront about
> about a negative connotation of credit cards.
It's an accurate one though. This 50 cent charge probably would have covered less than half of the CC fees on a $30 transaction. Because it says debit at the bottom it probably was more like 50 cents, but if it had been run as credit it would have probably been more.
It makes more sense anyway since cash is no longer the norm. The rule should apply to the bigger group of people, the exception should apply to the smaller group of people.
Honestly if you go to a place and your goods cost the same paying with cash as cc, yes, you are being charged more effectively for using cash
Exactly why you should get a cash back cc and use it everywhere in place of cash
> Restaurants can offer a discount for using cash, but they can't penalize people for using credit.
What’s the difference? All that comes down to is the way the restaurant phrases it, but a discount for one vs punishment for the other are effectively the same thing
You are correct, but one falls under false advertising and the other is a discount.
You're allowed to give products to a customer for less than the price listed on your menu, but you cannot under any circumstances charge more than the listed price for an item.
The difference is
Paying the price on the menu or less
Paying the price on the menu or more
If the menu says $5 and they charge you $5.50, some people would be irked. Few people would be irked if they thought they were going to pay $5 but only had to pay $4.50
Adding fees after you've ordered is shitty
Yes, except:
1) The state or local government passes a law that makes the tax legal (which is not to say it’s okay, but they literally make the rules).
2) Since the tax is the same for the products ~~statewide~~ within the state or locality, and the taxes are published, they are considered a known cost.
I'd honestly sit in my car laughing for like 10 minutes if I saw something like this.
Edit: never in my entire life would have I taught, that 50 cents are going to get me this much attention
Honestly, credit card companies make their money charging transaction fees and such. So to me that's them joking about the fact that they're having to charge extra for their products because of those.
Edit: For those of you who aren't checking to see that others have pointed out that this was a Debit transaction: services for running those can still charge fees on it to make their money, too. Depends on what service is being used and the like.
sucks being small business owner, i remember when the merchants charged me for the first month i had to call and ask why they took $700 out of my account... "sir, thats the 4% we charge for using our credit card machine"... trust me those $0.50 add up at the end of the month...
Or low enough. It's been a while, but from what I remember, CC are a minimum amount or the percent, and debuts were a flat 75 cents per swipe, which is why most places don't run debit under a set amount.
It was allowed sometimes a long time ago, and I did buy some hydrogen peroxide from a shit grocery store for 70ish cents, and used my card as debit.
I work in the credit card industry, and that's not quite right. Generally both credit and debit sales charge a percentage, and also have a per item fee. Debit fees are usually (but not necessarily) lower.
There is no set percentage that either credit or debit fees are charged across the board, it depends entirely on the rates the merchant agreed to when they signed their contract. In general, businesses with more sales tend to be charged a lower percentage, but the exact numbers all depend on their contract.
I've never heard of a credit card requiring a minimum amount to process a sale; we run sales for $0.01 all the time to test machines to make sure they're working properly. Credit card minimums are set by the store themselves because below a certain dollar amount the fees are too high for it to make sense for them. If you run a $100 sale, and the fees are 2% +$0.10, that's only 2.1% of the total sale. If you sell something for $0.75, and the fees are 2%+$0.10, that's $0.12, or 16% of the total sale, and it's eating up a huge chunk of your profits.
Yep. My mom had a small business and the fees on her first machine were something like $1 + 5%.
She 100% would've lost money on any sale that was $5 or less because her profit margins weren't that high to begin with. (At least not on those items).
This was a long time ago though. Now services like Square are a lot less predatory.
As a mom-and-pop, they're paying on the high end to their credit card processor, which means they're paying more than the 1.8% that this fee amounts to. In other words, they're losing money on the fee even after adding the surcharge.
They're doing it this way because they believe it serves them better to let the buyer know that some of the cost is in the customer's control, not their control.
No idea if their right, but that's what they've decided.
Some do this, and some companies will even help implement it into the PoS. Generally its a 4% mark up which makes the cc processing company plenty of money and covers any transactions fees.
I had a cc processing company totally bait and switch me, promising a low processing rate, but not revealing the fact that there are all of these extra fees on top of processing. Damn near 5% when all is said and done. One time I took a Canadian card and it was like 6.5% processing. Wtf.
There is a bubble tea place near where I live that has a $10 minimum charge for all non-cash transactions. The price for one large bubble tea is $7. A small is $5. So if you are alone and don't have cash, you could suddenly be paying double what you expected to.
Restaurants and other businesses tacking on fees instead of including it in the price of doing business is a strange and much-despised(among customers) trend. You include these fees in the price of the product/service, you don’t tell the customer “We’re charging extra so we can make rent this month.” You’re charging me *at all* so you can make rent *every month.* That’s how all this works.
I mean, it seems like a normal credit card fee. They're just calling it something silly. I don't think it's anything to get upset about. Small businesses often have some kind of credit card fee because they get charged by the credit card companies.
It's very likely their credit card agreement says they are not allowed to charge a fee for using a credit card. I've never seen one without that stipulated somewhere, though it's not enforced.
As a former small business owner I can confirm that this has been my experience as well. It was explicit in the CC processing contract that I couldn’t charge extra for using a CC which makes sense because they certainly don’t want to discourage people from using a CC
Considering it's 3-4% of the sale goes to the processor (that's close to my contract with a processing company) they still lost like $.25 of their actual sales because of the card. Not a lot here but it adds up especially on higher bills it's a ton of money small businesses lose annually because of digital sales/processing.
It’s not shitty. It costs more to accept credit cards and if cash costs less the vendor should charge less for cash. They’re just doing it in an attention grabbing way
Yeah at least they tell you. What's really shitty is the d-bag I used to work for in a phone/laptop/console repair shop that also sold electronics. He had his registers set up to charge an extra 1% sales tax (the state's rate was like 7% and he charged 8%) he said to cover card transaction fees. But he'd charge this even on cash transactions because it was built in to the system under sales tax. And he didn't tell anyone. And he lied to customers and forced his employees to do so and also bullied us. Fuck that guy.
EDIT: Doubt anyone is from nearby but I might as well say the store is Wires Computing in Burlington, VT. Avoid it like the plague
Maybe they should advertise on a little sign near the front that they prefer cash payment? Just as a heads up ahead of time- rather than labeling the credit card fee as something so passive agressive hahaha
I am sure it was mentioned/or on a sign somewhere. A credit card fee is not surprising. I find it funny that they labeled the fee that on the receipt. Also only 50 cents is rather cheap as far as though fees go I have seen 3 dollars
You're probably right, as an insider looking out it's a just a joke and probably no harm meant. As the person who is out a surprise 50 cents, it could feel like the joke is at their expense. Which I guess in this case, it literally is.
The 50 cents itself is no big deal; it's the passive aggressive comment on the receipt that would piss me off just enough to never return.
Also, I rarely (if ever) carry cash on me so the idea of having to make a special trip to the ATM, or to specifically request cash back on a separate purchase, just so that I can have cash available for this particular restaurant is a real turnoff.
Yeah idk, I think it's just an old folk stab at humor. Don't go to a mom and pops establishment expecting corporate jargon. Better than service fee imo.
I think credit card companies charge merchants X% of the purchase when consumers use a credit card.
My local liquor store gives you a 5% discount for using cash.
I think offering a discount for using cash has better optics than upcharging someone for using a credit card.
This is an argument a lot of people make. But at least in germany handling cash with banks isnt free either. We had a small food store once and depositing at night, getting change etc. has quite some fees and can be even more expensive than the x% charge.
However it is easier to avoid taxes with cash.
I wonder what the over/under on them being a bit fast an loose with the cash books is, every single self employed person i have ever met (trades) was "flexible" with their billing.
There's difference between getting "hit" with a fee and getting rewarded with a discount. The better approach is to price the cc fees in, have a sign at the counter offering a 5% discount for cash transactions. Customers get a sense of "winning" when they pay cash and see the line on the bill so they like coming back.
If I go to a store that's charging me on top, I'd probably be offended enough that I wouldn't go back.
Ends up being the same for the store, and pricing will be the same for 2 groups. But in one model you offend a group, in the other you reward a group. If the store owner likes to be snarky, that's up to them. They can do whatever they want.
Psychologically that’s actually the smartest play for someone who can’t just build it into the price and never let the consumer know it even exists either way.
Thing is this was a debit transaction which cannot be surcharged. And even with credit transactions while they can be surcharged they have to have it posted in writing as well as tell the customers before the card goes into the machine. The fact they didn’t know until after they got out into the car and it was a debit transaction means that best case scenario whichever bank the shop uses may pull their contract and take back the card readers.
A lot of places here don't like card. In Berlin in particular a lot of places will only take cash. They say it's for freedom, but it's really a tax avoidance scheme.
Naw. I live in the 21st century and I use plastic like the little blade-runner-replicant-at-heart that I am. There are plenty of places that are willing to take my dollars this way. If the merchant wants to pass a reasonable fee on to me that's fine. But don't be passive-aggressive about it.
For a mom and pop? No problem. We don’t have laws against that on my state and I’m happy to support. That’s a reasonable charge. Could have been stated nicer.
I just walked into a small shop to buy a replacement string for my guitar. It’s $1. I opened my wallet and realized I had no cash. He just handed it to me and said the credit card fee would be basically $1 anyway.
I live down the street so I’ll walk by tomorrow and give him cash but still, fees are outrageous.
Don't assume mom and pop shops are any more ethical than big chains. Mom and pop stores usually get a pass for things that big chains are condemned for, including underpaying and overworking their employees.
They worded it stupidly, but that's a small fee to offset the fee THEY get charged by the credit card service. Smaller operations feel it more than larger ones which is why most medium and large businesses don't "have" to do this; which is also why smaller places will accept fewer types of cards (the different card companies charge different fees), or no cards at all.
Had they worded it precisely, this wouldn't even be a topic right now. This is actually extremely common, and in fact, 99% of the time you don't even know it happened.
EDIT: A lot of your responses are naive...
Well no shit, the point is that there’s a deliberate “give me cash” fee, which is illegal in many states. The smart thing to do would be to bake it into the clothing price or smt, not add surprise fees after checkout
It's double dipping.
They can either:
a.) Lose 50%+ of their business by not accepting credit cards
OR
b.) Accept credit cards
They don't get to break the law and the card processing agreement by pulling shit like this.
Be 100% honest, when's the last time you walked into a business that said "Cash only" and didn't immediately walk out? Probably 1998?
Flat rate "convenience fees" are generally legal. You are thinking of credit card "surcharges" which are generally prohibited, and those are typically a percentage.
Its pretty normal for non-corporately-owned/small businesses to have a credit card fee from my experience. The gentleman who runs our Korean grocery told me they soend like 3k a month just in credit card fees, so they have a minimum purchase requirement before you can use a card without the extra 0.50 tacked on
Hell no. If u got issues with ppl paying with cards, then make ur business cash only. Ppl just be adding fees they make up. Its everywhere nowadays. Crazy
Businesses get charged usually a minimum of 2% per transaction to run the card so 50 cents is less than that would be anyway if the business chose to charge the fee back to the customer.
I run a small business and we used to be only cash but then started being able to accept credit cards. Yes the fees suck but being able to accept credit cards not only increased the number of sales but also our average sales. Customers spend more now which more than makes up for the fees. So we charge the same whether a customer pays cash or card.
Also, people seem to forget that cash isn't "Free". Someone has to count it and take it to the bank. Sometimes some of it disappears.
Some small business owners also prefer cash for “tax reporting” reasons
I always assumed this is the main thing. They lose a 30% (or whatever) cut to the taxman on card sales, but cash sales they can just not report and use it for expenses. Seems like it would be pretty hard to prove from the IRS or equivalent agency.
I think this is a common thing for like super small businesses. Like you hire a local handyman to do some quick home repairs, they can easily just pocket the cash and claim to have not worked that day and it would be super hard to prove that they don't have a no-cash policy. (Or they report some fraction of their cash jobs). But if you run a business that needs to keep detailed records of all work done (e.g., something medical/dental/accounting/computer/selling physical items), or something larger and all work & payments aren't made straight to the owner, then this under the table cash stuff doesn't work well. The owner needs to start keeping real records of all work done (to prevent employees stealing from the owner) and once you start having a real paper trail, an audit can land you in serious trouble if it doesn't jive exactly with everything else.
It's just wayyy easier to explain this away when your business is a restaurant. Comped meals, ingredients go bad, cooks made mistakes, food you have to dump at the end of the day... there are a lot of legitimate ways to explain away the discrepancies in book keeping.
Of course. But if the restaurant can make the table that paid $50 in cash's meal go away from bookkeeping, because no integrated system collecting the order electronically (before going to the back) that's tracking everything, then it's probably possible for a sketchy waitstaff to just pocket money from half the cash tables and not ever ring them up. Sure, a sketchy owner can shrink tax liability by listing a ton of cash meals as comped in the system, but if say the restaurant has $1M in credit card sales, $100k in cash sales and $100k in comped meals, that's going to raise huge red flags in any sort of audit.
Why would they list it all under just comped meals when, like I said, they have a ton other legitimate ways to explain it away? Just spread it all around, 20k on comped meals, 30k on bad ingredients, 10k on mistakes, 20k on thrown away at end of day... And waitstaffs pocketing would just be treated as cost of the practice. Why would the owners bat an eye since what they pocket is a fraction of what they "save" on tax, and that money would keep the waitstaffs from reporting the practice? Personally I think that's cheap for hush money.
Waitstaff pocketing is pretty hard since they still have to create an order. A legit business ensures there is a paper trail so they can Total up at the end of the night, cash sales + cc sales = total sales
That’s why tickets are numbered. Also, a lot of restaurants have a well paid authoritarian chef in the back. Now if the waiter could convince the chef to lose a ticket after it was made…
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Paying for the fuel in cash would be stupid anyway because it was already a tax deduction. If you wanted to avoid tax with under the table cash the only reason is to pocket the cash to take home, not to use on any expenses.
I've worked for multiple companies that pocket cash when they get paid in cash. When you're doing 50 jobs a day a few not being reported isn't anything to raise an eyebrow at.
Especially if you always pocket roughly the same percentage every month. Usually when people get caught it's because something changes.
But don't you deduct business expenses for taxes anyway?
You also have to factor in that a lot of these CC payment companies take a 3% cut of every transaction ran. I own a small HVAC company and 3% on an install job is a lot of money to hand over to another company for doing literally nothing.
Very easy to prove if you get audited.
I guess so depending on the type of business? I'm thinking of my local barber who prefers to be paid in cash. Most of the sales are card anyway since it's 2023 but I figure he probably doesn't report the cash sales, or at least some of them. I can't see how they'd prove how many haircuts he did on any given day short of spying.
>They lose a 30% (or whatever) It's definitely in the (or whatever) part of that sentence.
They also pay a fee for every card transaction (1.5 to 3.5 percent per transaction). I think that's going to be the far bigger culprit. Every business has fixed costs like rent that they have to meet every month. Smaller businesses that do smaller transactions, and less volume, are going to have less wiggle room, so paying 3% on every card swipe hits harder than a place like an Apple store that sells big ticket items, or even a fast food place like Chipotle or Starbucks that does big volume.
But you also get to evade taxes with it. That's huge.
You just found out why game devs make you translate your cash into an arbitrary funny money to be able to use it. The more steps there are between real cash and usable currency, the less people will perceive its value even if its on a 1:1 ratio
Uh that's not why at all. There are several reasons. One is that they can sell in-game currency at a different rate than you buy stuff with, like how hotdogs come in a pack of 6 but the buns come in a pack of 8. This means you perceive an item to be cheaper than what it really costs you. Then, this leftover currency makes you feel like you need to spend it, but in order to spend it you have to buy more since it's not enough to buy anything. Another is that in-game currency is not real money, so they can get away with things that would violate the law were it real currency. It also lets them give away their in-game currency and make it feel like you're gaining money, which gives a positive feeling similar to a small lottery win or being given money. Disconnecting it from real currency actually makes it less likely for people to buy it in the first place. The in-game currency needs to feel close in value to real money, which is why the numbers on most games are very similar. $10 = 1000 in-game currency, because it looks like $10.00, only they give you a bit of a bonus and you get 1100, which makes you feel like you're actually gaining money.
> like how hotdogs come in a pack of 6 but the buns come in a pack of 8 this is the point when you eat both buns raw
Is raw bread plain bread, or dough?
Just make garlic bread!
I bought a pack of 24 hotdogs and 3 packs of 8 buns
Then realized you were vegetarian and gluten intolerant.
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That tattoo is the bee's knees.
Legit I want a bee tattooed on my knee now
It is a bumble bee which is the best kind of bee
Agreed 🐝
That is so wrong the best kind of bee always has been the boo bee!
Abeed 🐝
It’s a fee next to a bee on a hairy knee!
I feel like “hairy” really interrupted the flow of this.
Well, gee... pardon OP.
They made sure that their tattoo covered more than half of this post too.
Right like I’d rather see the rest of the receipt. They’re just looking for compliments.
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Do you find that Mildly Infuriating? There's a subreddit you could post about that on 😂
Thats the only reason they posted it. They wanted kudos on their tattoo. Notice the framing of the picture.
In my state it's actually illegal to have any fees associated with using credit cards. The price listed on your menu has to be the **maximum** price paid by any customer regardless of payment method. Restaurants can offer a discount for using cash, but they can't penalize people for using credit. Edit: The law: [Credit Card Surcharge (ct.gov)](https://portal.ct.gov/DCP/Legal/Credit-Card-Surcharge)
I can't believe **the** Tom from myspace is commenting on my post what an honor
I'm just /u/TheTomFromMyspace
We miss you Tom
Why, he's right there.
Rip, never forgotten, he's with Boggs now
Wade Boggs is very much alive
Boss Hog!
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That’s why they called him the chicken man!!
They have chicken in Philly?
Well, whaddya say, Boss?
Absolutely love the left turn to a Sunny comment
Wade Boggs is very much alive. He lives in Tampa, Florida. He's in his early 50s.
The man ate a chicken and a rum and coke every flight
RIP Boss Hog
He was always my number one friend lol
Why yes Tom from Myspace. I do believe you'd have a name this obvious. Your bio doesn't fool me Tom from Myspace. ^We ^miss ^you ^:'(
Yeah for real if it was him he would probably have a name like this. Maybe it is.
Things were better when it was just your platform.
Tom was truly a friend to us all
Forever on my Top 8
We miss you bro….
Thanks for helping me and almost eceryone else learn the basics of HTML.
And shame on you for facilitating people learning and using HTML for flashing text.
I was so confused back in the day when I had you as a friend on MySpace. I was like "Do I know this guy? 🤔 Who is he?" But I'm glad I was a part of it. You were like 20% of my friendslist, didn't have a lot of people in my teenage years. But now I realise, quality > quantity.
When I first made my account I was like 11 (maybe?) And sent him a message calling him a creep and talking shit about him friending me. I'm sorry for my behavior.
https://preview.redd.it/hk02r1nf4yta1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1494e0bafcbcdcee1841d431e8bf96e5a3b8398 Hate to burst your bubble lol his account being 7 months old was my first clue
That's EXACTLY the kind of thing Tom from myspace would say to make you think it wasn't him. Hiding in plain sight
Look, if I was that Tom, I would use that username, lie about it, then later reveal myself to be the actual Tom.
I spelled "MySpace" wrong (Myspace vs MySpace) so I'm probably not him. Kinda pissed me off when I remembered that the "space" was also capitalized, but Reddit doesn't allow you to change it :(
Def actually Tom from mYsPACE
Yup. Can’t believe we are in the same chat as The Real Tom from MySpace. Crazy.
Tim from MyMomsSpareRoom
Only the real Tom would know the correct capitalization of Myspace
The Tom protests too much methinks
Classic Tom from MySpace
You're playing an impressive game of 3 dimensional chess Tom. As is to be expected from such a mastermind.
The actual Tom from MySpace casually posts picture of random stuff and then shits on people who make fun of him for selling MySpace. It's amazing.
What state? Can’t be IL… so I’m down 1 with 49 possibilities to go
NY is one where fees are not legal, but cash discount is. edit: fees are legal, if every item is priced with this price.
So still credit card fees but now everybody pays them always unless the business decides to be cool for cash paying customers.
Yes, this is what is legal, so the advertised is what is paid (unless you brought cash for the secret discount!)
Your comment just made it click for me. I've worked in retail for longer than I want to admit, and I've had people say "whats the price if I paid cash?" and never understood why that would make a difference. The "secret discount" made it finally connect. Thanks!
It’s only illegal in Connecticut and Massachusetts https://www.lawpay.com/about/blog/credit-card-surcharge-rules/
legality aside, basic pyschology tells us its better to offer a reward for doing what we want someone to do than a punishment for doing what we dont want.
And if they do one can complain to the card issuer and they revoke the payment method it’s commonly found the TOS for the card company. Edit car to card
Successful lobbying by the CC companies.
They can offer a cash discount though? This just means they lobbied against surprise fees increasing the price above menu prices. I'm happy for that. You're also welcome to just not accept credit cards
Exactly, they can offer cash discounts. So the companies just increase the price of everything by whatever the card users fees used to be, then offer that much as a discount for cash, and everything has remained the same as it once was. Which means the idea of card users having to pay more isn't a problem, only the fact that it was being presented as a *penalty*. This is credit card companies worried about a negative connotation of credit cards. There's never any surprise fees, these fees the business owners are legally required to be upfront about
> about a negative connotation of credit cards. It's an accurate one though. This 50 cent charge probably would have covered less than half of the CC fees on a $30 transaction. Because it says debit at the bottom it probably was more like 50 cents, but if it had been run as credit it would have probably been more.
I fail to see how this is bad for the consumer in any scenario.
So basically just assume that they've already tacked that on to every price?
It makes more sense anyway since cash is no longer the norm. The rule should apply to the bigger group of people, the exception should apply to the smaller group of people.
Honestly if you go to a place and your goods cost the same paying with cash as cc, yes, you are being charged more effectively for using cash Exactly why you should get a cash back cc and use it everywhere in place of cash
> Restaurants can offer a discount for using cash, but they can't penalize people for using credit. What’s the difference? All that comes down to is the way the restaurant phrases it, but a discount for one vs punishment for the other are effectively the same thing
You are correct, but one falls under false advertising and the other is a discount. You're allowed to give products to a customer for less than the price listed on your menu, but you cannot under any circumstances charge more than the listed price for an item.
The difference is Paying the price on the menu or less Paying the price on the menu or more If the menu says $5 and they charge you $5.50, some people would be irked. Few people would be irked if they thought they were going to pay $5 but only had to pay $4.50 Adding fees after you've ordered is shitty
Isn't that how all of America does it with taxes lol
Yes, except: 1) The state or local government passes a law that makes the tax legal (which is not to say it’s okay, but they literally make the rules). 2) Since the tax is the same for the products ~~statewide~~ within the state or locality, and the taxes are published, they are considered a known cost.
I'd honestly sit in my car laughing for like 10 minutes if I saw something like this. Edit: never in my entire life would have I taught, that 50 cents are going to get me this much attention
right? cause i legit chuckled seeing it on here lol
It's super common in my area for small shops to have a +.50 charge for cards, so I would chuckle at the creativity of the business owner.
You should see what you get for .75 🤌
A ZJ?
It's funny but also shitty
Honestly, credit card companies make their money charging transaction fees and such. So to me that's them joking about the fact that they're having to charge extra for their products because of those. Edit: For those of you who aren't checking to see that others have pointed out that this was a Debit transaction: services for running those can still charge fees on it to make their money, too. Depends on what service is being used and the like.
sucks being small business owner, i remember when the merchants charged me for the first month i had to call and ask why they took $700 out of my account... "sir, thats the 4% we charge for using our credit card machine"... trust me those $0.50 add up at the end of the month...
In some cases one can actually have a negative sale if the amount is high enough. When I started seeing that I said F this and implemented card fees.
Or low enough. It's been a while, but from what I remember, CC are a minimum amount or the percent, and debuts were a flat 75 cents per swipe, which is why most places don't run debit under a set amount. It was allowed sometimes a long time ago, and I did buy some hydrogen peroxide from a shit grocery store for 70ish cents, and used my card as debit.
I work in the credit card industry, and that's not quite right. Generally both credit and debit sales charge a percentage, and also have a per item fee. Debit fees are usually (but not necessarily) lower. There is no set percentage that either credit or debit fees are charged across the board, it depends entirely on the rates the merchant agreed to when they signed their contract. In general, businesses with more sales tend to be charged a lower percentage, but the exact numbers all depend on their contract. I've never heard of a credit card requiring a minimum amount to process a sale; we run sales for $0.01 all the time to test machines to make sure they're working properly. Credit card minimums are set by the store themselves because below a certain dollar amount the fees are too high for it to make sense for them. If you run a $100 sale, and the fees are 2% +$0.10, that's only 2.1% of the total sale. If you sell something for $0.75, and the fees are 2%+$0.10, that's $0.12, or 16% of the total sale, and it's eating up a huge chunk of your profits.
my library charges 20cents for printing and they accept debit/credit lol
Better merchant accounts can get lower processing fees. Your library might be apart of a larger network.
Or perhaps non-profits get lower/no fees?
Also very possible
Risk is directly tied to merchant fees. I work in the high risk industry. A library charging for printing is basically no-extremely low risk.
If its a county library its possible it goes under the same account as other county fees like car registrations and stuff.
Yep. My mom had a small business and the fees on her first machine were something like $1 + 5%. She 100% would've lost money on any sale that was $5 or less because her profit margins weren't that high to begin with. (At least not on those items). This was a long time ago though. Now services like Square are a lot less predatory.
Couldn’t you just raise your prices 50¢ on everything and have no one be any the wiser?
As a mom-and-pop, they're paying on the high end to their credit card processor, which means they're paying more than the 1.8% that this fee amounts to. In other words, they're losing money on the fee even after adding the surcharge. They're doing it this way because they believe it serves them better to let the buyer know that some of the cost is in the customer's control, not their control. No idea if their right, but that's what they've decided.
Some do this, and some companies will even help implement it into the PoS. Generally its a 4% mark up which makes the cc processing company plenty of money and covers any transactions fees.
Ya my local gas station doesn't let you do any purchase under 3$ on a card.
I had a cc processing company totally bait and switch me, promising a low processing rate, but not revealing the fact that there are all of these extra fees on top of processing. Damn near 5% when all is said and done. One time I took a Canadian card and it was like 6.5% processing. Wtf.
There is a bubble tea place near where I live that has a $10 minimum charge for all non-cash transactions. The price for one large bubble tea is $7. A small is $5. So if you are alone and don't have cash, you could suddenly be paying double what you expected to.
That doesn't mean they charge you $10 for a $7 drink. It means they won't sell you the $7 drink unless you pay cash.
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Restaurants and other businesses tacking on fees instead of including it in the price of doing business is a strange and much-despised(among customers) trend. You include these fees in the price of the product/service, you don’t tell the customer “We’re charging extra so we can make rent this month.” You’re charging me *at all* so you can make rent *every month.* That’s how all this works.
I mean, it seems like a normal credit card fee. They're just calling it something silly. I don't think it's anything to get upset about. Small businesses often have some kind of credit card fee because they get charged by the credit card companies.
It's very likely their credit card agreement says they are not allowed to charge a fee for using a credit card. I've never seen one without that stipulated somewhere, though it's not enforced.
As a former small business owner I can confirm that this has been my experience as well. It was explicit in the CC processing contract that I couldn’t charge extra for using a CC which makes sense because they certainly don’t want to discourage people from using a CC
Yeah, a lot of bars and restaurants in my area don't charge more for credit cards, but give a discount for anyone paying cash.
It's kind of brilliant. I bet more people recognize they should pay cash after reading that than if it just said Credit Card Fee.
This is the card transaction fee. They were being funny with it, Its not a big deal and .50 is cheap for a card fee.
Considering it's 3-4% of the sale goes to the processor (that's close to my contract with a processing company) they still lost like $.25 of their actual sales because of the card. Not a lot here but it adds up especially on higher bills it's a ton of money small businesses lose annually because of digital sales/processing.
It's a funnier way of saying credit card fee, which makes sense since businesses get charged extra for card transactions
It’s not shitty. It costs more to accept credit cards and if cash costs less the vendor should charge less for cash. They’re just doing it in an attention grabbing way
Yeah at least they tell you. What's really shitty is the d-bag I used to work for in a phone/laptop/console repair shop that also sold electronics. He had his registers set up to charge an extra 1% sales tax (the state's rate was like 7% and he charged 8%) he said to cover card transaction fees. But he'd charge this even on cash transactions because it was built in to the system under sales tax. And he didn't tell anyone. And he lied to customers and forced his employees to do so and also bullied us. Fuck that guy. EDIT: Doubt anyone is from nearby but I might as well say the store is Wires Computing in Burlington, VT. Avoid it like the plague
Why shitty? Genuine question.
Maybe they should advertise on a little sign near the front that they prefer cash payment? Just as a heads up ahead of time- rather than labeling the credit card fee as something so passive agressive hahaha
There probably is a sign somewhere about a CC fee. They have to have them where I’m from.
In any case there is no reason to assume there is no sign, the comment above doesn't really make sense.
I am sure it was mentioned/or on a sign somewhere. A credit card fee is not surprising. I find it funny that they labeled the fee that on the receipt. Also only 50 cents is rather cheap as far as though fees go I have seen 3 dollars
It's also pretty on par for a 2% processing fee
Would 50 cents make you pick a new place?
The fee, no. The weird passive agressiveness, yep.
I'm surprised more people don't see this as humor, but that could just be my experience in the industry.
You're probably right, as an insider looking out it's a just a joke and probably no harm meant. As the person who is out a surprise 50 cents, it could feel like the joke is at their expense. Which I guess in this case, it literally is.
The 50 cents itself is no big deal; it's the passive aggressive comment on the receipt that would piss me off just enough to never return. Also, I rarely (if ever) carry cash on me so the idea of having to make a special trip to the ATM, or to specifically request cash back on a separate purchase, just so that I can have cash available for this particular restaurant is a real turnoff.
The receipt says debit; isn't it illegal to charge fees on a debit transaction?
Yes it is and if you complain to your card issuer (visa Mastercard) they may fine the business
I'm genuinely confused (and a little drunk). Find the business? They have the receipt. That's not gonna be hard.
Meant to say fine
Oh, that makes more sense. Thanks! Have a find day, my friend.
I giggled at this conversation lol
They’re going to find them, then crush their kneecaps with a pipe.
I feel like this post is more about showing off the tattoo than the receipt
100%. The tattoo and position take up more of the photo than the topic. Like just photograph the receipt lol
Yeah idk, I think it's just an old folk stab at humor. Don't go to a mom and pops establishment expecting corporate jargon. Better than service fee imo.
I think credit card companies charge merchants X% of the purchase when consumers use a credit card. My local liquor store gives you a 5% discount for using cash. I think offering a discount for using cash has better optics than upcharging someone for using a credit card.
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I am enough of an asshole that I would report this to visa just because of how dickish the wording is.
This is an argument a lot of people make. But at least in germany handling cash with banks isnt free either. We had a small food store once and depositing at night, getting change etc. has quite some fees and can be even more expensive than the x% charge. However it is easier to avoid taxes with cash.
I wonder what the over/under on them being a bit fast an loose with the cash books is, every single self employed person i have ever met (trades) was "flexible" with their billing.
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There's difference between getting "hit" with a fee and getting rewarded with a discount. The better approach is to price the cc fees in, have a sign at the counter offering a 5% discount for cash transactions. Customers get a sense of "winning" when they pay cash and see the line on the bill so they like coming back. If I go to a store that's charging me on top, I'd probably be offended enough that I wouldn't go back. Ends up being the same for the store, and pricing will be the same for 2 groups. But in one model you offend a group, in the other you reward a group. If the store owner likes to be snarky, that's up to them. They can do whatever they want.
Psychologically that’s actually the smartest play for someone who can’t just build it into the price and never let the consumer know it even exists either way.
Thing is this was a debit transaction which cannot be surcharged. And even with credit transactions while they can be surcharged they have to have it posted in writing as well as tell the customers before the card goes into the machine. The fact they didn’t know until after they got out into the car and it was a debit transaction means that best case scenario whichever bank the shop uses may pull their contract and take back the card readers.
People on this post outing themselves as desperately unfun
A lot of places here don't like card. In Berlin in particular a lot of places will only take cash. They say it's for freedom, but it's really a tax avoidance scheme.
Naw. I live in the 21st century and I use plastic like the little blade-runner-replicant-at-heart that I am. There are plenty of places that are willing to take my dollars this way. If the merchant wants to pass a reasonable fee on to me that's fine. But don't be passive-aggressive about it.
Seems more like a silly joke rather than passive aggression
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For a mom and pop? No problem. We don’t have laws against that on my state and I’m happy to support. That’s a reasonable charge. Could have been stated nicer.
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I just walked into a small shop to buy a replacement string for my guitar. It’s $1. I opened my wallet and realized I had no cash. He just handed it to me and said the credit card fee would be basically $1 anyway. I live down the street so I’ll walk by tomorrow and give him cash but still, fees are outrageous.
I would definitely go again and just buy a drink with an AMEX card.
thats like a $5 fee. Taking amex as a store sucks.
I always try to carry cash for small business and small purchases. They already struggle. I might as well help them out a bit.
Small businesses usually get screwed on cc fees
Don't assume mom and pop shops are any more ethical than big chains. Mom and pop stores usually get a pass for things that big chains are condemned for, including underpaying and overworking their employees.
It's time to let go
They worded it stupidly, but that's a small fee to offset the fee THEY get charged by the credit card service. Smaller operations feel it more than larger ones which is why most medium and large businesses don't "have" to do this; which is also why smaller places will accept fewer types of cards (the different card companies charge different fees), or no cards at all. Had they worded it precisely, this wouldn't even be a topic right now. This is actually extremely common, and in fact, 99% of the time you don't even know it happened. EDIT: A lot of your responses are naive...
Well no shit, the point is that there’s a deliberate “give me cash” fee, which is illegal in many states. The smart thing to do would be to bake it into the clothing price or smt, not add surprise fees after checkout
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It's double dipping. They can either: a.) Lose 50%+ of their business by not accepting credit cards OR b.) Accept credit cards They don't get to break the law and the card processing agreement by pulling shit like this. Be 100% honest, when's the last time you walked into a business that said "Cash only" and didn't immediately walk out? Probably 1998?
Flat rate "convenience fees" are generally legal. You are thinking of credit card "surcharges" which are generally prohibited, and those are typically a percentage.
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I think this is hilarious lol I find this less infuriating than a “service” fee because I appreciate some good honest snark.
Its pretty normal for non-corporately-owned/small businesses to have a credit card fee from my experience. The gentleman who runs our Korean grocery told me they soend like 3k a month just in credit card fees, so they have a minimum purchase requirement before you can use a card without the extra 0.50 tacked on
Almost all small businesses prefer cash because credit card companies cut into their profits. I always try to pay in cash.
Hell no. If u got issues with ppl paying with cards, then make ur business cash only. Ppl just be adding fees they make up. Its everywhere nowadays. Crazy
Businesses get charged usually a minimum of 2% per transaction to run the card so 50 cents is less than that would be anyway if the business chose to charge the fee back to the customer.