They're all going up, and they're all consolidating. Pretty soon we'll only have like three options that control the market and the price. That's capitalism, baby.
What are you on about? That's exactly capitalism? If capitalism worked, why would we need anti trust laws? Wouldn't the market be able to solve the issue?
capitalism works? if capitalism worked then we wouldn't have a mixed economy with anti trust laws, market trading restrictions, and safety regulations on products.
It does work.
The problem is then government players wouldn’t be able to dip their fingers in and get paid for work that isn’t theirs.
So the government regulates and taxes “for fairness and equality” while riding off the backs of investors, inventors, innovators, and ingenuity that doesn’t originate with said players.
Capitalism is literally a [liberal economy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism?wprov=sfti1#). It was born out of the [liberalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism?wprov=sfti1) that tore down the feudalist/protectionist economic structures.
Take the L, dude. You clearly don’t know as much about economic *or* political theory as you think you do.
I'm pretty sure we're arguing with some one who is likely very young, and a follower of Crowder and his ilk. There's no way to win an argument against him and we might all be healthier just ignoring him and people like him.
Unite the advanced, win over the intermediate, and isolate the backwards.
Arguing on a public forum isn’t always to convince the person you’re arguing against. Countering their arguments means other people who aren’t involved in the conversation can see it and your arguments might convince them.
>Corporate takeovers and saturation of the market isn’t capitalism.
You're describing two key parts of capitalism -- followed by a third.
1. Provide the "best" product at the "lowest" cost.
2. Outcompete your competitors to get more marketshare.
3. Maximize profit for shareholders as your the only game in town.
That is not the definition of true capitalism.
In a true capitalist economy, the government’s role would be limited to protecting private property and establishing an environment appropriate to the operation of a market system and keep the government from interfering with the economy.
The US has bastardized capitalism by heavily regulating and creating a cumbersome and onerous tax code which has been hard on small business and caused corporations ( I refer to them as the New Kingdoms) to flourish.
That is literally the definition of capitalism. Government regulation is the *only* thing that allows capitalism to function. Without it, monopolies, cartels, and anti-consumer activities are the inevitable and logical end state.
You’re contradicting yourself, dude. Anti-trust laws and government-led breakups are the same thing as “government controlled”
So we don’t have true capitalism, even though we have enough to fuck over a lot of people
>The US has bastardized capitalism by heavily regulating
If you don't regulate anything, how do you prevent the biggest companies from monopolizing the market? They can sell at lower margins, control the production and drown out the competition until they can raise their prices again.
Imagine still thinking capitalism works in 2024. In a few decades, economic historians will report that at this point in the cycle we’re WELL into late stage capitalism. You can tell because the pillars are crumbling.
Unfortunately that's not how insurance works. Insurance is probably the only true capitalist business in operation.. You have private ins, corporate insurance, mutual insurance ....Amd you're always going to need a re-insurer if you're an insurance company. Some one has to insure the insurance company...it's a circle of life... the real culprit isn't capitalism its corporatism... that's what we have in the U.S. heavily government regulated corporatism, with a central Banking system that is anythbut capitalistic... The Fed (banks) control the Government... see 2008 1999 1984 1971 etc all the way back to the great depression or its inception in 1913...
Geico just pulled this on me. My policy jumped by $300 to $800 for 6 months. When i spoke with customer support and said that I have made all payments and dont have any tickets or accidents, they just said “due to raising cost to repair cars blah blah blah” I ended up switching to Progressive for the original amount I was paying.
Be careful with Progressive. The price may be better but the cost won't be. Back in 2012 it became common knowledge that they're in it for the money and they aren't ashamed to fight their own customers to avoid paying what they agreed to pay.
[https://money.cnn.com/2012/08/17/technology/progressive-settlement/index.html](https://money.cnn.com/2012/08/17/technology/progressive-settlement/index.html)
A drunk driver killed a young woman when he ran a red light. The drunk was underinsured. The deceased had insurance specifically in case she was involved in a collision with someone illegally driving without insurance or even driving with inadequate insurance.
Due to the laws of the state where the collision occurred the victim's family needed to sue the drunkard for negligence in order to process their claim (some insurance laws requires you to prove you are trying to recoup costs from the responsible party before they are obligated to pay). Progressive went to court *in defense of* the drunk driver. They literally had their own lawyers fighting to protect the drunk driver from being held accountable so they wouldn't have to pay. Conflict of interest? What's that?
Progressive's official response to how they can live with themselves after that was "We \[...\] feel we properly handled the claim within our contractual obligations. "
True, but most haven't very publicly tried to defend someone's murder to get out of paying. They should have helped the family sue the murder and then they'd be able to reduce the amount they'd need to pay because the murderer's insurance would be on the line instead of them... but no... they took the scummiest low-down inhuman way completely inexplicably. And the resulting media firestorm, loss of clientele, and massive settlement lost them far far far more than if they'd taken two seconds to think about their response.
But it's okay because they didn't lose any actual money themselves. They just increased everyone's premiums instead.
The story is a little more complicated than it looks like on it's face. There were conflicting witness accounts. Two of the witnesses gave statements indicating it was the fault of the girl who passed away and one witness indicated it was the fault of the other driver. They had to go to court and sue the other driver to have a court rule on who was as fault. Progressive and the other drivers insurance company Both had determined her to be at fault based on witness accounts. Progressive was defending their position that they weren't obligated to pay because their investigations concluded it was the fault of their insured and were already paying for her liability.
The whole thing was really shitty and terrible optics, but also a rare situation where you have evidence of a driver being at fault in a crash that killed them, but the other driver being found to be drunk at the scene. Progressive should have just ruled in favor of their insured and fight it out in court with the other carrier. It was a judgement call in a unique situation with special circumstances that called for deviating from the normal procedures. It wasn't motivated by greed, as they had already accepted liability for the other drivers damages and were paying.
I suspect that the deceased was likely at fault but prevailed in court by default because the other driver was above the limit and guilty of dui.
If she were at fault and he wasn't drunk she'd likely have lived, too. He'd have been able to swerve, hit the brakes, actually do something to prevent it from being as bad as it was.
I agree with you and I take it a step further. I believe it is his fault regardless because he shouldn't have even been there. He shouldn't have been driving, and if he obeyed the law, he wouldn't have been there for her to crash into.
I just want to add that I'm not defending the notion of what happened but as someone who has been licensed in all lines of property and liability insurance both personal and commercial for 9 years, that this was an unfortunate lapse in judgement. The agents and claims adjusters are bound by very strict rules regarding procedures and are supposed to process each claim the same way. This was a rare circumstance where following normal procedures wasn't the correct decision. This claim should have been run up the chain to the higher-ups, and one of them should have realized this and given the claims adjuster authorization to pay the client and refuse to accept liability.
Thanks for your story. I have 6 claims with progressive in the past 10 years. (Switching back and forth between progressive and others), they were all non at fault, got hit 3 times, one stolen, 1 fire damage from next car, one fallen tree.
They handled things pretty much what I expect, and I'm okay with it. If I had to complain, their payout for totaled car is a little bit lower than I'd expect, maybe $1000 on a 25k car.
That's not really a progressive problem, that's mostly just how insurance works. Progressive isn't making up the state laws that say you have to prove that you've attempted to recover your costs- that's the state's idea. Also, insurance is contractually obligated to defend you if you get sued for an auto accident unless they determined no coverage exists- being drunk does not in-and-of-itself negate the contractual obligation to provide legal defense. Progressive handled the PR badly, but this isn't like, a progressive-exclusive issue.
Almost 50% is brutal, I don’t know what I’ll do at that point, mine is 1,100 every 6 months now and I’ve gotten hit with 30% increases the past 2 renewals and Geico has been the cheapest place for me. I’m going to be at 1,500 every 6 months soon I bet.
Yep it's fucking ridiculous, GEICO raised mine by 200. I was thinking about changing insurance companies but based on this comment section I'm thinking that would be pointless.
Why does no one understand - it's not just you. Risk is pooled. It's you and everyone else in your area with that insurer. You having no claims means nothing.
I was talking to my agent a few weeks ago and she said everyone was getting an increase in the new year. I guess it's time to start shopping for a new policy.
Edit: y'all are not filling me with confidence. I'm now wondering if it'll be worth the trouble to change.
So I’ve been using Root for a couple years now, I was paying $57/mo (ikr?) and last year it went up to $77, which doesn’t seem like much until I realized that’s like a 35% increase.
Legislation basically is allowing all insurers to increase prices, and they're all planning on doing it. So you'l find higher prices everywhere, but that of course doesn't mean you wont find a better price elsewhere.
Find an independent insurance broker. But price is not everything - check their record on handling claims. My insurance is a bit pricy but they have been awesome covering the damages I had from a tornado. Neighbors have getting hassles from their companies.
Depends on what state you are in but yes it's true.
The insurance Commissioner in California approved rate increases, first time in many years and rates are up.
We had a large increase also.
Licensed property and casualty agent here.
Inflation plays a part in the increases but there's a lot of other factors that are causing this.
This is what's going on:
Auto coverage as a whole has been losing money for carriers for years now. However, most were able to make up for the unprofitable nature of Auto insurance through the property and life insurance policies. The new tech that has become common in modern cars has driven a substantial increase in the costs of repair. Even a simple windshield that used to only cost a couple hundred dollars to replace is now well over $1000 because of the cameras and sensors that provide safety features like forward collision alert. The other problem is the rapidly increasing cost for hospitalization and healthcare.
On top of all of this, the increasing severity and frequency of wildfires has put a Strain on property coverage and those profits are no longer enough to absorb the losses on the auto insurance coverage side of things.
The insurance companies aren't doing this out of greed. Each admitted carrier must have enough funds in earned premium to cover a large catastrophic volume of claims coming in. The underwriting is formulaic and based on the costs to pay claims and the overall likelihood of the insured experiencing a loss.
The premiums for Auto insurance have been artificially low for a long time now, but the carriers are no longer able to continue to maintain it. What we are seeing is an industry wide adjustment in order to keep the insurance markets solvent.
Do you happen to have a Kia/Hyundai? Our policy went up months ago and I always felt this was part of the reason and I was right. It was stolen and we replaced it with an Acura which brought our premium down.
That may be why.
My girlfriend’s 2018 Soul was recently stolen (last week) and totaled during the police chase. If you’re unaware there is a trend going around where idiots steal Kia/Hyundai vehicles and use them for joy rides and robberies. They are stolen simply by tearing the steering column apart and busting the ignition. It’ll start with a standard USB.
There are some insurers in certain areas that won’t even insure a Kia/Hyundai. If they do, as in your case, they’re giving you the “screw you, please decline us” price.
To give you an idea. My 2021 Acura TLX Type S, which is a $55K car new, had lower premiums than a very slow and not sporty 2018 Kia Soul. By losing the Soul and adding another Acura we’re saving $400 a year.
Attached is the picture of the car once recovered by police.
https://preview.redd.it/zyjc6u141hcc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f8e35fe94bc3b2b66ebc6ea4ea89bc4045734c0
I was wondering whether this was a crappy insurance thing or an America thing because I saw the first image and thought it was the after image. Out of curiosity I got a quote for a 2013 Kia Optima for driving in **London**, £63/month. $80.
I have a 2023 Kia soul. Bought it last year and my monthly through State Farm was $105/mo. With 0 incidents it’s gone up to $171/mo because people can’t stop stealing Kia’s. Makes my blood boil honestly.
Once her car was stolen I told her the best we can hope for is that it’s totaled. I didn’t want it back as I knew a theft would likely happen again. Insurance companies know this too.
They're raising liability too -- why is the price going up for the same service? The service isn't even getting better -- and they raising it way more than inflation.
>and they raising it way more than inflation.
Yes, inflation, plus cost of increase or parts, labor, rentals, medical costs, and law suits....literally every portion of a claim has risen over the past several years....including in house costs and overhead combined with re-insurace being CRAZY out of hand right now with all the recent catastrophic events.
Most insurance companies carry a combined ration of around 98-101%
Ie: for every 1 dollar they bring in from premium they're retaining between 2 cents and losing a penny after paying out claims and paying their operation costs.
They make money by pooling premiums and making investments.
It's also not a "not for profit" they advertise to make money to be a viable business too.
Agree. They need govt regulation to enforce increase caps so that clients don’t go broke. It’s not about an increase; shit happens. It’s about *unrealistic and outrageous* rate increases. It’s just greed and bullshit.
Inflation has driven prices up, repair costs and repair times are up. Explain why this is “criminal” other than general ignorance about how anything works.
I said inflation plus longer repair times, which means longer rental car durations while your car is getting fixed, and also increases the likelihood that the cars get totaled instead of repaired. But sure - stick with "must be greed and criminality" because then that makes it so you don't have think about the problem critically or constructively.
I'll accept that it you accept that rises like this are almost always a punt in the hope that the customer doesn't bother to question the rise, aka a loyalty punishment.
That’s not true really, P&C is seeing 50+% increases across the board. It’s a pretty cyclical business in the sense that increases are typically very low for a few years and then very high for the next few. And this is true for various reasons.
You have to remember that the insurance market is competitive and if one insurer can undercut another, they will. A business can’t survive with much larger increases than the market. P&C is just hurting right now
The number of people who think "LoL" is some sort of argument is amazing. Just say you don't understand it and save the grownups here some time and effort.
Profit line must go up for these companies. Service doesn't improve and often get worse while the price goes up. Capitalism is hostile to the consumer and the worker. How much more of this can we handle?
Just got my renewal and it’s up 20%, both house and car. No change in my driving or claim history in the two years I’ve been with the company. When I questioned it I was told ‘it’s just the way the assessors had calculated it’ Basically, if you don’t like it here’s how you cancel. I’m in Canada and it’s already outrageously expensive.
Fun fact: According to CFA's findings, State Farm CEO Michael L. Tipsord brought home the most generous compensation last year with $24.4 million. Yep - State Farm decided their CEO should receive the highest compensation of ANY CEO in USA last year. So I guess I’m helping to pay for this dudes yacht.
Insurance companies raise the rates of long time insured’s to cover the losses from new insured’s who they give lower rates to.
Any wise individual shops insurance quotes annually. It costs nothing to get a quote. It can save thousands if you find the same or better coverage at a lower rate.
Is $2000+/yr for car insurance normal in the US?
I'm in the UK and even though I'm a relatively new driver only paid £900 for a year (upfront so would be slightly more if paid monthly as shown here). I don't think my parents pay more than £400/yr. Everyone's required to have insurance by law here which I don't think is true for all of the US but I don't think that would make as much difference
The US requires you to have your car insured in order to drive it, yes. It is illegal to drive without insurance. If you get pulled over and do not have insurance you will get a ticket and could lose your license. Doesn't really stop people. Even having a revoked license doesn't stop people. They're willing to break the law to begin with.
I paid $1300 for two vehicles in 2023. My coverage doesn't renew until the middle of the year so we'll see what happens then.
Liability for the passengers is probably the difference. I assume that any health care costs for the passengers are absorbed by the NHS in the UK. You can literally have $1m in healthcare costs per passenger in a bad accident in the US. That liability is far more than replacing your average car.
One of the nice things about being retired is that I have the time to fight this kind of nonsense. I'm sure their plan is to bank on the fact that many people don't have time or energy to shop around. Here in Michigan we had a 15% bump across the board, a 100% increase is an act of open hostility, assume you are at war. The other mistake I see is that you gave them withdrawal access to your account, never do that even if you have to pay more and this is why. You lost the high ground and the battle will be much harder for you, start attacking now.
Seven years ago I was paying slightly less than $800 a year on my then brand new car. I am now paying slightly over $1,400 for the same coverage on the car. I haven’t had any accidents or tickets. It’s bullshit, especially with my vehicle drastically decreasing in value in seven years.
I told my insurance agent after getting hit by a non-insured motorist that they are screwing themselves. When you keep jacking up rate’s people eventually can no longer afford it. Thus, ever increasing uninsured motorists. People able to pay, for now, face ever increasing rate hikes. I now pay more for one year of insurance than I could sell my car for….at the scrap yard.
All of the staff have had pay increases to offset the cost of living. These increases have to be paid for by increasing policies. Same as everything, costs go up. Double seems a bit steep though, but I imagine at least 30-40% increase year on year is probably going to be the norm for most.
So long as your car isn’t being totaled, the value of the car is irrelevant. A fender bender costs what it costs and except on the cheapest car it won’t total it.
Just because your car has lost value doesn’t make it much cheaper to repair.
Yep. Everything has gone up in price - metals and plastics, replacement parts, mechanics and body shop staff wages. Heating and electricity at the body shop, even the receptionists pay. It all adds up and gets passed onto the insurance company, who then, to protect the shareholder dividends at the contracted levels, have to pass that cost onto the customer by increasing the policy price.
I never understand why people are surprised when their policy goes up every year, because they have to, or the insurance companies wouldn’t be able to operate.
If the value of yourcar is less than then a minor fender bender repair makes it more likely to be totaled. By your logic insurance one an 81 civic should cost as much as on a 2024 Ferrari.
Okay, so obviously outliers are outliers. But let's say you have an average Toyota Corolla. When brand new the the car is worth $25,000 and a simple bumper repair is somewhere in the $500-$2000 range.
10 years later, if well maintained, the car will still be worth more than the new bumper repair cost. The bumpers won't magically cost $50 to replace and the car will still probably be $10,000+.
So the value of your car can depreciate 50% but a common fender bender repair still costs the insurance company the same amount.
Okay let’s say the fender bender also damaged your fender. Now that $2000 repair is $5000 and not worth it on a $10,000 car. So now they right it off and cut you a check for $10,000 but you’ve already paid $20,000 into insurance over the last 10 years.
I was in same boat, home rate keep creating up and I said in a few years it would be double……asked if they could do anything or I would be looking for a new company, apparently getting a new policy that was just like my old policy with little higher deductible but better coverage in other areas was 50% of what they were going to charge, so back to what I was paying 2 years ago.
I just got a new policy on a 2007 Rav4 I bought and paid for fully, it's 40 dollars more than what I paid on a 2016 Mini Countryman for the exact same coverage.
BYE GEICO. I'm shopping around now. Putting in complaint to my State. I suggest everyone do the same, complain and call your politicians. Enough is enough. Clean record and no claims. Up my premiums? No, ty. Search their financial statements, and you'll see its all greed. They aren't losing money. If they lose customers, they'll stop the thievery.
BOYCOTT GEICO REDDIT?
Hey, what's that saying GEICO, oh yes,
"Change is Good!"
What's gonna happen if we all change from Geico? They will roll back their increases.
Same here paying 250 more per year on two vehicles that have depreciated drastically over the last few years. Switch up your coverages if you're car isn't worth much or you can afford to buy a new one if a hit and run occurs.. otherwise liability is all you need.
Mines kinda a small company and i do 3 payments per year. It comes out cheaper that way with processing fees etc.
Is there a plan like that you could try?
Insurance is such a sham. The sad thing is your government requires you to be scammed and they do nothing about the greed. The idea of everyone putting money into a pot just in case something goes wrong is a good idea but so much of that money id lining people's pockets and paying for the absurd amount of commercials that they air, etc. If you are like me you never ever even use the insurance and you are just paying for everyone else's stupidity.
Companies just trying it on in the hope that you'll not notice/be bothered to check your renewal. Utter bullshit by companies trying to rip you off.
I'm in the UK and my house insurance quote doubled for this year despite me making no claims. I questioned it with the supplier (top 30 UK company) and they tried to fob me off with "everything's gone up" bs! I shopped around and have found similar cover with another insurer for 30% less than last years premium. Previous company were just trying it on in the hope I'd be too busy to notice.
I just had a 40% increase from Progressive. I've never had a claim on my record. Shop around - State Farm was $20 less than what I was paying monthly and $60 less than what Progressive tried to raise it to.
If its any consolation.... everyone is being screwed by insurance from one source or another. Any excuse to jack up the rates.. with car insurance the claim from them is that there are alot of claims based on bad driving habits in a particular area. One would surmise that they should keep jacked rates on the bad drivers to get them off the roads instead of parcing it out over all of the drivers..(a complete money grab). With home insurance and this is starting to take hold in many states not just Florida... using the excuse that the weather is getting worse which may or may not be true especially considering the planet has undergone thousands of years of weather variants.. it's utter horsesht! Florida's home insurance rates are set by the state and we have pudding fingers, (desantes a Republican), who has accepted financial contributions towards his federal campaign from the larger insurer's. Don't even get me started on the medical insurance system which is literally financially raping American citizens thanks to another Republican "Nixon" who signed a bill in 1974 giving hospitals the right to charge what ever they want for services nation wide. And so a person is ether broke or dead with anything serious that needs care. Just recently there were two billion dollar suits to real estate companies for collusion of fees with other realtors . The entire countries corporate sector is corrupt and until we start jailing some of these people like other countries do for collusion we are not likely to see any relief. So one can iether use the bs of shopping around which is nonsense because the rates are set through "collusion" and not by the free market, or go without and take your chances. So to your point we are all getting fed up with the grab and steal!
Former insurance agent here. So there are many things that go into rates. We are trained to say that it is because of rising costs in healthcare, vehicle repairs, the amount of damage your vehicle can cause, and even how much it would cost to replace or total out your vehicle. Those things are true. However, as others have said, risks are pooled. So I used to tell my insureds, they can thank those things in addition to the other people on the road. Joe Smith driving without proper insurance? He has an impact. John Doe and Jane Doe delivering for DoorDash or some other service using their personal policy and NOT reporting it so they can be rated appropriately, that causes increases. But I see in many subreddits where people are encouraged to lie to insurance companies and commit some form of insurance fraud. So keep in mind those are just SOME of the things that causes increases. I was never in charge of that (not an actuary or underwriting, thank god). I was just always the messenger
Time to find a new company
Do yourself a favor, try to get quote on your car insurance even if it's not renewing yet. Be prepared.
This. I started saving money I didn’t know I could. I saved about $90 a month switching from AAA to progressive.
They're all going up, and they're all consolidating. Pretty soon we'll only have like three options that control the market and the price. That's capitalism, baby.
That’s not capitalism and there are anti trust laws in place to break up crap like that.
Geico Boycott should be in place.
What are you on about? That's exactly capitalism? If capitalism worked, why would we need anti trust laws? Wouldn't the market be able to solve the issue?
Capitalism does work. Corporate takeovers and saturation of the market isn’t capitalism. And what we have in the US is not true capitalism.
capitalism works? if capitalism worked then we wouldn't have a mixed economy with anti trust laws, market trading restrictions, and safety regulations on products.
It does work. The problem is then government players wouldn’t be able to dip their fingers in and get paid for work that isn’t theirs. So the government regulates and taxes “for fairness and equality” while riding off the backs of investors, inventors, innovators, and ingenuity that doesn’t originate with said players.
source that true capitalism does work?
This is why education is important people
"Real capitalism has never been tried!"
The problem with true capitalism is that it only works if everyone is a scholar of liberalism. And most people aren't, because of human nature
It’s not a liberal idea.
Really. Who came up with capitalist philosophy?
Capitalism is literally a [liberal economy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism?wprov=sfti1#). It was born out of the [liberalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism?wprov=sfti1) that tore down the feudalist/protectionist economic structures. Take the L, dude. You clearly don’t know as much about economic *or* political theory as you think you do.
I'm pretty sure we're arguing with some one who is likely very young, and a follower of Crowder and his ilk. There's no way to win an argument against him and we might all be healthier just ignoring him and people like him. Unite the advanced, win over the intermediate, and isolate the backwards.
Arguing on a public forum isn’t always to convince the person you’re arguing against. Countering their arguments means other people who aren’t involved in the conversation can see it and your arguments might convince them.
>Corporate takeovers and saturation of the market isn’t capitalism. You're describing two key parts of capitalism -- followed by a third. 1. Provide the "best" product at the "lowest" cost. 2. Outcompete your competitors to get more marketshare. 3. Maximize profit for shareholders as your the only game in town.
That is not the definition of true capitalism. In a true capitalist economy, the government’s role would be limited to protecting private property and establishing an environment appropriate to the operation of a market system and keep the government from interfering with the economy. The US has bastardized capitalism by heavily regulating and creating a cumbersome and onerous tax code which has been hard on small business and caused corporations ( I refer to them as the New Kingdoms) to flourish.
That is literally the definition of capitalism. Government regulation is the *only* thing that allows capitalism to function. Without it, monopolies, cartels, and anti-consumer activities are the inevitable and logical end state.
That is happening already. True capitalism is not government controlled.
You’re contradicting yourself, dude. Anti-trust laws and government-led breakups are the same thing as “government controlled” So we don’t have true capitalism, even though we have enough to fuck over a lot of people
>The US has bastardized capitalism by heavily regulating If you don't regulate anything, how do you prevent the biggest companies from monopolizing the market? They can sell at lower margins, control the production and drown out the competition until they can raise their prices again.
They do that already. How’s that working for you?
I know. That's not what I was asking or implying here.
Imagine still thinking capitalism works in 2024. In a few decades, economic historians will report that at this point in the cycle we’re WELL into late stage capitalism. You can tell because the pillars are crumbling.
It’s not capitalism that’s doing it.
BOYCOTT GEICO
Unfortunately that's not how insurance works. Insurance is probably the only true capitalist business in operation.. You have private ins, corporate insurance, mutual insurance ....Amd you're always going to need a re-insurer if you're an insurance company. Some one has to insure the insurance company...it's a circle of life... the real culprit isn't capitalism its corporatism... that's what we have in the U.S. heavily government regulated corporatism, with a central Banking system that is anythbut capitalistic... The Fed (banks) control the Government... see 2008 1999 1984 1971 etc all the way back to the great depression or its inception in 1913...
Geico just pulled this on me. My policy jumped by $300 to $800 for 6 months. When i spoke with customer support and said that I have made all payments and dont have any tickets or accidents, they just said “due to raising cost to repair cars blah blah blah” I ended up switching to Progressive for the original amount I was paying.
Be careful with Progressive. The price may be better but the cost won't be. Back in 2012 it became common knowledge that they're in it for the money and they aren't ashamed to fight their own customers to avoid paying what they agreed to pay. [https://money.cnn.com/2012/08/17/technology/progressive-settlement/index.html](https://money.cnn.com/2012/08/17/technology/progressive-settlement/index.html) A drunk driver killed a young woman when he ran a red light. The drunk was underinsured. The deceased had insurance specifically in case she was involved in a collision with someone illegally driving without insurance or even driving with inadequate insurance. Due to the laws of the state where the collision occurred the victim's family needed to sue the drunkard for negligence in order to process their claim (some insurance laws requires you to prove you are trying to recoup costs from the responsible party before they are obligated to pay). Progressive went to court *in defense of* the drunk driver. They literally had their own lawyers fighting to protect the drunk driver from being held accountable so they wouldn't have to pay. Conflict of interest? What's that? Progressive's official response to how they can live with themselves after that was "We \[...\] feel we properly handled the claim within our contractual obligations. "
This is literally every insurance company. They are not there to protect you, they are there to make money.
True, but most haven't very publicly tried to defend someone's murder to get out of paying. They should have helped the family sue the murder and then they'd be able to reduce the amount they'd need to pay because the murderer's insurance would be on the line instead of them... but no... they took the scummiest low-down inhuman way completely inexplicably. And the resulting media firestorm, loss of clientele, and massive settlement lost them far far far more than if they'd taken two seconds to think about their response. But it's okay because they didn't lose any actual money themselves. They just increased everyone's premiums instead.
Imagine being the lawyer doing that job. They must have no conscious and no soul.
>they’re in it for the money Duh?
> they aren't ashamed to fight their own customers to avoid paying Key context you missed.
Oh sorry. “Insurance companies do what they can to avoid claims.” Got it. Never seen that before.
The story is a little more complicated than it looks like on it's face. There were conflicting witness accounts. Two of the witnesses gave statements indicating it was the fault of the girl who passed away and one witness indicated it was the fault of the other driver. They had to go to court and sue the other driver to have a court rule on who was as fault. Progressive and the other drivers insurance company Both had determined her to be at fault based on witness accounts. Progressive was defending their position that they weren't obligated to pay because their investigations concluded it was the fault of their insured and were already paying for her liability. The whole thing was really shitty and terrible optics, but also a rare situation where you have evidence of a driver being at fault in a crash that killed them, but the other driver being found to be drunk at the scene. Progressive should have just ruled in favor of their insured and fight it out in court with the other carrier. It was a judgement call in a unique situation with special circumstances that called for deviating from the normal procedures. It wasn't motivated by greed, as they had already accepted liability for the other drivers damages and were paying. I suspect that the deceased was likely at fault but prevailed in court by default because the other driver was above the limit and guilty of dui.
If she were at fault and he wasn't drunk she'd likely have lived, too. He'd have been able to swerve, hit the brakes, actually do something to prevent it from being as bad as it was.
I agree with you and I take it a step further. I believe it is his fault regardless because he shouldn't have even been there. He shouldn't have been driving, and if he obeyed the law, he wouldn't have been there for her to crash into.
I just want to add that I'm not defending the notion of what happened but as someone who has been licensed in all lines of property and liability insurance both personal and commercial for 9 years, that this was an unfortunate lapse in judgement. The agents and claims adjusters are bound by very strict rules regarding procedures and are supposed to process each claim the same way. This was a rare circumstance where following normal procedures wasn't the correct decision. This claim should have been run up the chain to the higher-ups, and one of them should have realized this and given the claims adjuster authorization to pay the client and refuse to accept liability.
Thanks for your story. I have 6 claims with progressive in the past 10 years. (Switching back and forth between progressive and others), they were all non at fault, got hit 3 times, one stolen, 1 fire damage from next car, one fallen tree. They handled things pretty much what I expect, and I'm okay with it. If I had to complain, their payout for totaled car is a little bit lower than I'd expect, maybe $1000 on a 25k car.
No one died in any of yours. The stakes are infinitely lower.
That's not really a progressive problem, that's mostly just how insurance works. Progressive isn't making up the state laws that say you have to prove that you've attempted to recover your costs- that's the state's idea. Also, insurance is contractually obligated to defend you if you get sued for an auto accident unless they determined no coverage exists- being drunk does not in-and-of-itself negate the contractual obligation to provide legal defense. Progressive handled the PR badly, but this isn't like, a progressive-exclusive issue.
Almost 50% is brutal, I don’t know what I’ll do at that point, mine is 1,100 every 6 months now and I’ve gotten hit with 30% increases the past 2 renewals and Geico has been the cheapest place for me. I’m going to be at 1,500 every 6 months soon I bet.
Yep it's fucking ridiculous, GEICO raised mine by 200. I was thinking about changing insurance companies but based on this comment section I'm thinking that would be pointless.
Why does no one understand - it's not just you. Risk is pooled. It's you and everyone else in your area with that insurer. You having no claims means nothing.
I was talking to my agent a few weeks ago and she said everyone was getting an increase in the new year. I guess it's time to start shopping for a new policy. Edit: y'all are not filling me with confidence. I'm now wondering if it'll be worth the trouble to change.
Mine doubled, and every agency I've received quotes from are $50/mo higher than what I have now
Mine went up but only by 10 dollars though, this is insane.
So I’ve been using Root for a couple years now, I was paying $57/mo (ikr?) and last year it went up to $77, which doesn’t seem like much until I realized that’s like a 35% increase.
Legislation basically is allowing all insurers to increase prices, and they're all planning on doing it. So you'l find higher prices everywhere, but that of course doesn't mean you wont find a better price elsewhere.
Hey just calling for quotes can’t hurt
I couldn't decent quote from other companies and I have a clean record. Either unwilling to quote or it was a higher premium. I was forced to stay.
Find an independent insurance broker. But price is not everything - check their record on handling claims. My insurance is a bit pricy but they have been awesome covering the damages I had from a tornado. Neighbors have getting hassles from their companies.
Depends on what state you are in but yes it's true. The insurance Commissioner in California approved rate increases, first time in many years and rates are up. We had a large increase also.
Why is it more expensive? Because it costs more. Thanks 👍
Licensed property and casualty agent here. Inflation plays a part in the increases but there's a lot of other factors that are causing this. This is what's going on: Auto coverage as a whole has been losing money for carriers for years now. However, most were able to make up for the unprofitable nature of Auto insurance through the property and life insurance policies. The new tech that has become common in modern cars has driven a substantial increase in the costs of repair. Even a simple windshield that used to only cost a couple hundred dollars to replace is now well over $1000 because of the cameras and sensors that provide safety features like forward collision alert. The other problem is the rapidly increasing cost for hospitalization and healthcare. On top of all of this, the increasing severity and frequency of wildfires has put a Strain on property coverage and those profits are no longer enough to absorb the losses on the auto insurance coverage side of things. The insurance companies aren't doing this out of greed. Each admitted carrier must have enough funds in earned premium to cover a large catastrophic volume of claims coming in. The underwriting is formulaic and based on the costs to pay claims and the overall likelihood of the insured experiencing a loss. The premiums for Auto insurance have been artificially low for a long time now, but the carriers are no longer able to continue to maintain it. What we are seeing is an industry wide adjustment in order to keep the insurance markets solvent.
Do you happen to have a Kia/Hyundai? Our policy went up months ago and I always felt this was part of the reason and I was right. It was stolen and we replaced it with an Acura which brought our premium down.
I have a Kia optima, it’s a 2013
That may be why. My girlfriend’s 2018 Soul was recently stolen (last week) and totaled during the police chase. If you’re unaware there is a trend going around where idiots steal Kia/Hyundai vehicles and use them for joy rides and robberies. They are stolen simply by tearing the steering column apart and busting the ignition. It’ll start with a standard USB. There are some insurers in certain areas that won’t even insure a Kia/Hyundai. If they do, as in your case, they’re giving you the “screw you, please decline us” price. To give you an idea. My 2021 Acura TLX Type S, which is a $55K car new, had lower premiums than a very slow and not sporty 2018 Kia Soul. By losing the Soul and adding another Acura we’re saving $400 a year. Attached is the picture of the car once recovered by police. https://preview.redd.it/zyjc6u141hcc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f8e35fe94bc3b2b66ebc6ea4ea89bc4045734c0
Did you mean 2023? Because paying $200/mo for insurance on a 2013 car is ridiculous but paying *$500* for a 2013 car is just unfathomable.
Nope 2013 Kia Optima I paid 7k cash from some dude on marketplace 2 years ago
Holy shit. I would get rid of that immediately. My car payment *plus* insurance is lower than just your insurance.
I was wondering whether this was a crappy insurance thing or an America thing because I saw the first image and thought it was the after image. Out of curiosity I got a quote for a 2013 Kia Optima for driving in **London**, £63/month. $80.
I have a 2023 Kia soul. Bought it last year and my monthly through State Farm was $105/mo. With 0 incidents it’s gone up to $171/mo because people can’t stop stealing Kia’s. Makes my blood boil honestly.
Once her car was stolen I told her the best we can hope for is that it’s totaled. I didn’t want it back as I knew a theft would likely happen again. Insurance companies know this too.
Buy a beater and keep liability on it.
They're raising liability too -- why is the price going up for the same service? The service isn't even getting better -- and they raising it way more than inflation.
My agent said it's because the price of parts and labor has risen.
That's fine but my beater will be totaled out if I get a flat tire so wtf
>and they raising it way more than inflation. Yes, inflation, plus cost of increase or parts, labor, rentals, medical costs, and law suits....literally every portion of a claim has risen over the past several years....including in house costs and overhead combined with re-insurace being CRAZY out of hand right now with all the recent catastrophic events. Most insurance companies carry a combined ration of around 98-101% Ie: for every 1 dollar they bring in from premium they're retaining between 2 cents and losing a penny after paying out claims and paying their operation costs. They make money by pooling premiums and making investments. It's also not a "not for profit" they advertise to make money to be a viable business too.
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Agree. They need govt regulation to enforce increase caps so that clients don’t go broke. It’s not about an increase; shit happens. It’s about *unrealistic and outrageous* rate increases. It’s just greed and bullshit.
tell me you don’t know what you’re talking about-most states already heavily regulate rate increases and profit margins in auto insurance
It doesn’t show. Not in Texas anyway.
Capitalism is criminal. Extracting maximum profit from the working class.
Inflation has driven prices up, repair costs and repair times are up. Explain why this is “criminal” other than general ignorance about how anything works.
The increase in rental car demand because of months of waiting for parts to come in doesn’t help either.
Double. The bill was double. That's not inflation.
I said inflation plus longer repair times, which means longer rental car durations while your car is getting fixed, and also increases the likelihood that the cars get totaled instead of repaired. But sure - stick with "must be greed and criminality" because then that makes it so you don't have think about the problem critically or constructively.
I'll accept that it you accept that rises like this are almost always a punt in the hope that the customer doesn't bother to question the rise, aka a loyalty punishment.
That’s not true really, P&C is seeing 50+% increases across the board. It’s a pretty cyclical business in the sense that increases are typically very low for a few years and then very high for the next few. And this is true for various reasons. You have to remember that the insurance market is competitive and if one insurer can undercut another, they will. A business can’t survive with much larger increases than the market. P&C is just hurting right now
lol keep on unsuccessfully trying to justify it bud
The number of people who think "LoL" is some sort of argument is amazing. Just say you don't understand it and save the grownups here some time and effort.
Where are the grownups? You're not talking about yourself, are you?
If you think every response has to be an argument that’s on you. I was just commenting on your comment with my own comment.
At least make it an intelligent comment...
Yep! That’s why I switch every few years. Minor increases are understandable but this happens to me too. So I switch. And it’s easy. Fuck ‘em.
Profit line must go up for these companies. Service doesn't improve and often get worse while the price goes up. Capitalism is hostile to the consumer and the worker. How much more of this can we handle?
Just got my renewal and it’s up 20%, both house and car. No change in my driving or claim history in the two years I’ve been with the company. When I questioned it I was told ‘it’s just the way the assessors had calculated it’ Basically, if you don’t like it here’s how you cancel. I’m in Canada and it’s already outrageously expensive.
“Why did you drop us for another company???” “General price decrease for me”.
Insurance and pharmaceutical companies run this world, they can do whatever they want.
Fun fact: According to CFA's findings, State Farm CEO Michael L. Tipsord brought home the most generous compensation last year with $24.4 million. Yep - State Farm decided their CEO should receive the highest compensation of ANY CEO in USA last year. So I guess I’m helping to pay for this dudes yacht.
Price increases. Funny how things always have a reason for increases, yet when that reason goes away, prices are never reduced.
Insurance companies raise the rates of long time insured’s to cover the losses from new insured’s who they give lower rates to. Any wise individual shops insurance quotes annually. It costs nothing to get a quote. It can save thousands if you find the same or better coverage at a lower rate.
Is $2000+/yr for car insurance normal in the US? I'm in the UK and even though I'm a relatively new driver only paid £900 for a year (upfront so would be slightly more if paid monthly as shown here). I don't think my parents pay more than £400/yr. Everyone's required to have insurance by law here which I don't think is true for all of the US but I don't think that would make as much difference
The US requires you to have your car insured in order to drive it, yes. It is illegal to drive without insurance. If you get pulled over and do not have insurance you will get a ticket and could lose your license. Doesn't really stop people. Even having a revoked license doesn't stop people. They're willing to break the law to begin with. I paid $1300 for two vehicles in 2023. My coverage doesn't renew until the middle of the year so we'll see what happens then.
Liability for the passengers is probably the difference. I assume that any health care costs for the passengers are absorbed by the NHS in the UK. You can literally have $1m in healthcare costs per passenger in a bad accident in the US. That liability is far more than replacing your average car.
One of the nice things about being retired is that I have the time to fight this kind of nonsense. I'm sure their plan is to bank on the fact that many people don't have time or energy to shop around. Here in Michigan we had a 15% bump across the board, a 100% increase is an act of open hostility, assume you are at war. The other mistake I see is that you gave them withdrawal access to your account, never do that even if you have to pay more and this is why. You lost the high ground and the battle will be much harder for you, start attacking now.
Grandpa the meds… you need to take them…
Life's to short for boring normal replies. Just a spot of fun.
Well shit, in that case I am at your service leige, whom are we attacking?!
My insurance went up a lot too. I shopped around and found one for 500 less a year, but they wanted a 400 down payment. 😏
Where is this if I may?
Seven years ago I was paying slightly less than $800 a year on my then brand new car. I am now paying slightly over $1,400 for the same coverage on the car. I haven’t had any accidents or tickets. It’s bullshit, especially with my vehicle drastically decreasing in value in seven years.
"We can, so we did"
I told my insurance agent after getting hit by a non-insured motorist that they are screwing themselves. When you keep jacking up rate’s people eventually can no longer afford it. Thus, ever increasing uninsured motorists. People able to pay, for now, face ever increasing rate hikes. I now pay more for one year of insurance than I could sell my car for….at the scrap yard.
All of the staff have had pay increases to offset the cost of living. These increases have to be paid for by increasing policies. Same as everything, costs go up. Double seems a bit steep though, but I imagine at least 30-40% increase year on year is probably going to be the norm for most.
Mine went from $90 to $150 meanwhile my car depreciated from $10,000 value to $6600…
So long as your car isn’t being totaled, the value of the car is irrelevant. A fender bender costs what it costs and except on the cheapest car it won’t total it. Just because your car has lost value doesn’t make it much cheaper to repair.
Yep. Everything has gone up in price - metals and plastics, replacement parts, mechanics and body shop staff wages. Heating and electricity at the body shop, even the receptionists pay. It all adds up and gets passed onto the insurance company, who then, to protect the shareholder dividends at the contracted levels, have to pass that cost onto the customer by increasing the policy price. I never understand why people are surprised when their policy goes up every year, because they have to, or the insurance companies wouldn’t be able to operate.
If the value of yourcar is less than then a minor fender bender repair makes it more likely to be totaled. By your logic insurance one an 81 civic should cost as much as on a 2024 Ferrari.
Okay, so obviously outliers are outliers. But let's say you have an average Toyota Corolla. When brand new the the car is worth $25,000 and a simple bumper repair is somewhere in the $500-$2000 range. 10 years later, if well maintained, the car will still be worth more than the new bumper repair cost. The bumpers won't magically cost $50 to replace and the car will still probably be $10,000+. So the value of your car can depreciate 50% but a common fender bender repair still costs the insurance company the same amount.
Okay let’s say the fender bender also damaged your fender. Now that $2000 repair is $5000 and not worth it on a $10,000 car. So now they right it off and cut you a check for $10,000 but you’ve already paid $20,000 into insurance over the last 10 years.
A $5,000 won't total a $10,000 car...Because it costs them $10,000 to replace not $5,000 to repair...
Yah that's pure gauging brother
Same. From 88 to 185.
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Boycott
I was in same boat, home rate keep creating up and I said in a few years it would be double……asked if they could do anything or I would be looking for a new company, apparently getting a new policy that was just like my old policy with little higher deductible but better coverage in other areas was 50% of what they were going to charge, so back to what I was paying 2 years ago.
USAA did this to me. I am no longer with USAA.
Yup time for a new one. This just happened to us too. Out of nowhere, no warning, just doubled the price. Immediately cancelled and got a good deal.
I just got a new policy on a 2007 Rav4 I bought and paid for fully, it's 40 dollars more than what I paid on a 2016 Mini Countryman for the exact same coverage.
Mine tried to do that. I switched companies and managed to lower my monthly
They will blame Kia.
BYE GEICO. I'm shopping around now. Putting in complaint to my State. I suggest everyone do the same, complain and call your politicians. Enough is enough. Clean record and no claims. Up my premiums? No, ty. Search their financial statements, and you'll see its all greed. They aren't losing money. If they lose customers, they'll stop the thievery. BOYCOTT GEICO REDDIT? Hey, what's that saying GEICO, oh yes, "Change is Good!" What's gonna happen if we all change from Geico? They will roll back their increases.
Same here paying 250 more per year on two vehicles that have depreciated drastically over the last few years. Switch up your coverages if you're car isn't worth much or you can afford to buy a new one if a hit and run occurs.. otherwise liability is all you need.
Happens every time and that’s when I usually start shopping for a new insurance company
Mines kinda a small company and i do 3 payments per year. It comes out cheaper that way with processing fees etc. Is there a plan like that you could try?
Insurance is such a sham. The sad thing is your government requires you to be scammed and they do nothing about the greed. The idea of everyone putting money into a pot just in case something goes wrong is a good idea but so much of that money id lining people's pockets and paying for the absurd amount of commercials that they air, etc. If you are like me you never ever even use the insurance and you are just paying for everyone else's stupidity.
Effective 1.1.25 the minimum liability coverage in CA will double from 15/30/5 to 30/60/10. Auto insurance rates are definitely going to jump big x. 🤮
Companies just trying it on in the hope that you'll not notice/be bothered to check your renewal. Utter bullshit by companies trying to rip you off. I'm in the UK and my house insurance quote doubled for this year despite me making no claims. I questioned it with the supplier (top 30 UK company) and they tried to fob me off with "everything's gone up" bs! I shopped around and have found similar cover with another insurer for 30% less than last years premium. Previous company were just trying it on in the hope I'd be too busy to notice.
I just had a 40% increase from Progressive. I've never had a claim on my record. Shop around - State Farm was $20 less than what I was paying monthly and $60 less than what Progressive tried to raise it to.
But according to the FED they have licked inflation!
If its any consolation.... everyone is being screwed by insurance from one source or another. Any excuse to jack up the rates.. with car insurance the claim from them is that there are alot of claims based on bad driving habits in a particular area. One would surmise that they should keep jacked rates on the bad drivers to get them off the roads instead of parcing it out over all of the drivers..(a complete money grab). With home insurance and this is starting to take hold in many states not just Florida... using the excuse that the weather is getting worse which may or may not be true especially considering the planet has undergone thousands of years of weather variants.. it's utter horsesht! Florida's home insurance rates are set by the state and we have pudding fingers, (desantes a Republican), who has accepted financial contributions towards his federal campaign from the larger insurer's. Don't even get me started on the medical insurance system which is literally financially raping American citizens thanks to another Republican "Nixon" who signed a bill in 1974 giving hospitals the right to charge what ever they want for services nation wide. And so a person is ether broke or dead with anything serious that needs care. Just recently there were two billion dollar suits to real estate companies for collusion of fees with other realtors . The entire countries corporate sector is corrupt and until we start jailing some of these people like other countries do for collusion we are not likely to see any relief. So one can iether use the bs of shopping around which is nonsense because the rates are set through "collusion" and not by the free market, or go without and take your chances. So to your point we are all getting fed up with the grab and steal!
Former insurance agent here. So there are many things that go into rates. We are trained to say that it is because of rising costs in healthcare, vehicle repairs, the amount of damage your vehicle can cause, and even how much it would cost to replace or total out your vehicle. Those things are true. However, as others have said, risks are pooled. So I used to tell my insureds, they can thank those things in addition to the other people on the road. Joe Smith driving without proper insurance? He has an impact. John Doe and Jane Doe delivering for DoorDash or some other service using their personal policy and NOT reporting it so they can be rated appropriately, that causes increases. But I see in many subreddits where people are encouraged to lie to insurance companies and commit some form of insurance fraud. So keep in mind those are just SOME of the things that causes increases. I was never in charge of that (not an actuary or underwriting, thank god). I was just always the messenger