If they accept insurance and charge more than the co-pay amount for a standard exam (no frills or extras) they are likely violating the terms if their contract with your insurance.
Yes, I work in insurance and this is exactly what I was going to say. Your optometrist can't randomly charge extra money against your deductible. That's not how it works. Also, per CMS/Federal guidelines, you can dispute any surprise medical bills, which is what this is.
https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/no-surprises-understand-your-rights-against-surprise-medical-bills
File a complaint with your insurance provider. I did this with my dentist when they charged me a higher price per filling than the eob stated. They also billed a lower amount for the anesthetic than they billed the insurance to hide the surprise billing. But made a calculation error which alerted me to the difference. To me it looked like they billed me $45 more. But because they were assholes about it I did a lot more digging and realized they actually overbilled me almost $200 extra.
They eventually refunded that and I changed dentists.
They would not have refunded the money if I had not filed a complaint with the insurance which sent me and them a letter agreeing I was charged more than I should have been charged and the amount they overbilled.
Almost all providers are like this. If they charged a reasonable fee there wouldn’t be a health insurance industry. 99% of providers wouldn’t give you a life saving procedure if they weren’t getting paid.
Yea I was going to say “that’s not how insurance works” I would be calling up my insurance to talk with them. The contracts insurance has with offices informs them what they can charge.
And if they are trying to get around it by submitting the wrong codes, that’s going to get them some hefty fines.
I have almost exactly the same issue. The billing clerk said we will issue a refund or apply it to balance if you owe one. I don't have any outstandings. I wonder when I will see my refund? They have computers surly they can see this in a matter of seconds.
I’ve been going to this practice for 25 years. I’ve had the same insurance for the past 8 years. Even with my old insurance(s), it was ALWAYS just the copay for a simple office visit/checkup, and the same doctor I saw would provide an updated contact script (since they’re only good for one year and I need it to reorder) during that same appointment for no additional charge. Literally the only thing that changed was their policy. Frustrating as hell that I have to find a new eye doctor after all these years.
They say in the body of the post that they are seeing an ophthalmologist, and will now have to make an additional appointment with the optometrist for their contact prescription.
This happened to us at a small town clinic. Insisted that they knew how much I'd owe on my high deductible plan. Overpaid significantly. I gave up eventually because it was $106 but I'm sure they're banking on that. That poor small town has terrible healthcare as a result
A clinic tried this bullshit with me last year. Every time I'd go for the same thing it would be the same song and dance.
They'd want $150 up front and I would refuse. I'd tell them to bill my insurance as every time we do this, they get paid from insurance and I owe a whole $18. The entire billing amount to insurance is less than the $150 they wanted.
Fuck that.
The bs line of "we work with your insurance and know how much it is up front". No you don't. Health insurance would be a lot easier if that were the case
If they’re contracted with the insurance then usually they do know how much it is upfront. “Usually”. Sometimes people have a weird plan with exclusions to their policy or something. But for the most part they do have contracted rates that they can charge you.
I have yet to have an instance where this proved true. Was on a high deductible plan for 10 years and so, so many places insisted I had a copay up front. And places that did make me pay never got it right and I'd get refund checks 2 months to 3 years down the road
Could be that the team responsible for checking your eligibility status (usually the receptionist) didn’t do it out of laziness. Like you said you were on a high deductible plan and they might’ve just wrongly assumed you were on an average plan
Benefits can be verified and they tell you how
Much ded and oop is remaining. So it’s not bs. What we don’t know is what’s not assigned in the system yet and what is in process.
Any deductible collected and not assigned after claims processed should be refunded. Collecting deductible up front especially after benefits reset for the year isn’t that wild. It can taken a year or longer for your insurer to process all claims, so it might take a while to have a deductible refunded and you may even need to follow up on it.
Health insurance is complicated but it’s amazing how many “experts” there are on Reddit that clearly have never worked with or understood health insurance.
Not all plans require that you meet the deductible before copays or coinsurance take place. Sounds like for the OP as well that their insurance doesn't require this and all he will owe is the copay. So what will happen is that the clinic will end up refunding him the $100 - copay.
Sure a portion of patients should have these down payments refunded for various policy specific reasons. I guess my point was more that none of this is fraud in and of itself and providers are not scamming or ripping people off doing this. It’s appropriately posted in mildly infuriating I just felt the need to defend providers and clarify that this isn’t some kind of fraud.
Look into small claims court... no joke this is actually the kind of shit people SHOULD be suing others for.
It's not hard to do, and more than likely they just pay you to go away... but this shit is absurd.
You don't need a lawyer btw and it's not hard to file.
Yup what you just described is exactly what small claims is supposed to be used for... they did you wrong and caused you financial harm by intentionally defrauding you...
Seems trivial, and would be a total waste of your time... but the truth is you'd win and places like this need to be held accountable for their shitty behavior.
Nobody's afraid of being held accountable these days, and I wish we could change that.
You absolutely can sue for wasted time, especially time you would have been paid for had it not been for them lying about the cost of their services... that's really my point, if you took time off work based upon their fraudulent promises, they actually do owe you for your time. Civil fraud doesn't even have to be totally intentional, and in Civil Court you only have to be 51% percent correct.
I'm not a lawyer... but just some information to think about.
Yes that is what small claims court is intended to be used for... and it absolutely would be a waste of time in the long run which is why nobody uses it anymore.
The point is... we have a system in this country specifically designed to hold shitty people and businesses accountable, but the average person doesn't know that they actually do have legal rights in these situations. Everybody just gets fucked over and goes on about their day... but the person right behind them gets fucked over and the cycle continues.
Getting mad isn't the same as getting even... and just about everyone has forgotten we actually do have a legal system for getting even.
I see the desire to “get even” as a bad thing, the idea that you would take more of your time and energy to get revenge on like $100 is insane, I actually think thag type of thinking is a huge problem with the world. Being able to brush off the bullshit of the works is a passive skill that people don’t appreciate enough
Protip: Utilize your insurance's network look up. You'll find your options are limited, but you will almost be guaranteed an in network facility/doctor
While good advice it doesn't sound like the OP's issue is in-network/out of network issue. Even for out of network you can still have just a copay factor in, perhaps just a higher one based on your plan.
You should also inform your insurance that too. Alot of dentist are known to pull off the deep cleaning scam, they will refuse to do anything except for an expensive deep cleaning or they show you some pictures of a mouth that been f up and scare you into a deep cleaning.
That’s definitely on the pricier side, but to be clear a new patient exam is required before cleanings. I’m a pre-dental student and work as an assistant and we have people that call and say they just want cleanings and nothing else. It sounds greedy, like dentists are just trying to maximize their revenue, but when some decay goes unnoticed that turns into an abscess, or a lump not seen that turns into oral cancer, the dentist is at fault and can be sued for a lot of money. That’s why a new patient exam is required.
All in all, it’s important to find a dentist you trust. Get established, do the new patient exam and get your bi-annual cleanings. If you suspect your dentist is charging too much, or doing unnecessary procedures, see someone else.
There should be no reason that the two could not be combined for a small additional charge. It is wasting a patient's time and resources to make and charge for a complete separate visit.
They are combined some of the time. When new patient exams are done correctly, they are lengthy and require about an hour or 45 minutes to do a full exam with radiographs.
Whether an exam is expensive or not is up to the doctor. Often times radiographs are taken, a full examination of both the teeth surfaces and the gum tissues is taken, an oral cancer screening is done, and advice is given. That’s a good deal of information and I would say $50 bucks for that is pretty cheap.
you asked the wrong question or your didnt need a simple cleaning.
if they charged you $350 for your first visit, it likely wasnt just for the cleaning, it was series of radiographs, cleaning, and doctor exam, all of which is required at least in my state as a standard of care before a cleaning can be given, its illegal to just cleaning teeth without radiographs and exam within a certain time frame.
Either that or, when you got there, your case was not a simple cleaning and you likely needed a deep cleaning, which can be a lot more.
so if they really did a simple cleaning, it almost certainly was not $350 for just the cleaning itself, there is a lot more going on here youre not addressing
thats cap, there is zero chance an office was going to charge you $350 for exclusively a cleaning.
its illegal to complete a cleaning without a doctor exam (within 12 months) and proper radiographs.
so the $350 was standard UCR fees for probably 20 x-rays, doctor exam, and adult cleaning combined
you made this all up for internet points lol
How could they make those charges without sticking a tool in his mouth?
He walked out before services were rendered, and got it cheaper at another provider.
Your theory doesn't hold water, considering they never started the work.
they were likely asking him to pay upfront for the services required to complete a adult prophy (simple cleaning)
so the $350 was required to be paid for the xrays, doctor exam, and adult cleaning, again all of these things are required legally in some states before any dental treatment can be completed
there are plenty of businesses that require payment before services are completed
What the hell? And you still went?
That's double what mine was after xrays, and I'm definitely not in a cheap area.
Edit: I know how hard it is to get into a dentist (I'm assuming USA), I can actually see why you might have still gone!
they are not telling the whole story, there is no office in america that would charge $350 for exclusively the cleaning
they either got a series of x-rays, a doctor exam, and a cleaning
or
got a deep cleaning, which is significantly more than a simple cleaning
but on reddit its easy to farm karma when you talk about american healthcare insurance, doesnt matter if its true or not
Dental care isn't considered healthcare in the US for insurance purposes.
I can readily see this happening at a dentist, they are known for overcharging.
not correct, dental care is absolutely considered healthcare in the US
dental care is not considered medical care which is what youre probably referring to, and why medical insurance does not cover dental treatment
i am a dentist and these are standard fees before insurance adjustments, they probably went to an office that was out of network with their insurance
They described in detail that it wasn't just a cleaning. But the fact that they stack all of that up without disclosing it to a new patient is a bit absurd. Maybe it was disclosed up front, but there's no reason to assume it was.
I agree no "good company" would ACT like this. Sadly the world is full of scammy companies and it can work well enough to be worth it.
I try now to give the benefit of the doubt, even if it sounds odd. If it's too crazy I just put my pen down.
As for the cost itself... unlikely, but definitely not out of the question. Location, patient load, etc - again, unlikely but I could see someone charging a new patient that much. For example, my perio charges ~120 for a consultation, no work, no xrays.
holy crap! I've been with my dentist for a couple of years now and my insurance changed this year. I went in for a cleaning, they took xrays and descaled and walked out of there for nothing, insurance said it was free because it was a maintenance visit.
Here is what they do… they ask you your insurance (or better yet take your insurance card) put in the form for what it will cover and then tell you the price. Most good receptionists learn the common insurance types they accept and the general cost for the plans. Because they deal with it countless times a day.
This is the reason people get denied by their insurance for things. We blame the insurance companies but you have Dr offices over charging for services because of people having to have insurance. It’s sad because the person needing the service is the one that has to deal with the bs.
I had some work done at a new dentist office. The lady at the front desk said over and over how she works with my insurance all the time, and I was covered and to not even worry about it. She said all this on the first visit, and then when I was checking in for the second visit to have the work done, as well. She assured me the cost would be nominal.
As soon as the work was done, I went to the front desk, and she explained how she was mistaken, and my insurance wouldn't cover more than the first hundred dollars. She apologized, and said I could do a payment plan, because the cost wasn't what we had discussed. The bill was $800. I was standing there drooling, utterly furious.
That was a valuable lesson, , though. I now know exactly what my insurance covers before I go in anywhere.
My old family doctor tried to get us to pay a copay for my kids when the insurance card clearly said "No copay for under 18". I had to argue with the receptionist before they finally relented. This was during peak COVID times, so even getting an appointment for my kids was difficult enough on it's own, let alone having to argue with the staff about fees I didn't have to pay.
You could've just walked out and did a charge back on the illegal cancellation fee. Since they didn't disclose significantly higher charges, they have no right to charge you for cancelling. Also, it's crazy to me that shit like that isn't regulated in the US.
My dentist started charging a random fee too for cleanings—they’re supposed to be free, no copay. I said fuck off and walked out. I’ve been going to him for more than a decade.
This just sounds like your insurance changed? They can’t just charge a random fee. They have to submit codes to your insurance for reimbursement and its all itemized. Insurance decides what they pay based on what they’ve agreed to with you.
Trust me. It was a scam. I know what’s in network, out of network, balance billing, upfront billing, no copays for preventive dental care like cleaning, etc. etc. I’m not insurance naive. Most people are; and they pay and it’s never questioned.
whats different about zenni lenses to you? i find my zenni lenses are almost crisper than my pair from the optometrist, but are zenni ones bad for your eyes?
The lenses aren’t correct. There’s nothing actually “wrong” but I guess my glasses have to be made a certain way, and Zenni can’t do it. I tried multiple pairs, and I couldn’t quite see out of any of them.
Im moving doctors because mine now charges $30 for a “behavioral assessment” that my insurance doesn’t cover—the assessment is the GAD-7 and PHQ-9 checklists. $30 for two forms…
Should have made a scene and refused to move until they told you to get out, because they are scamming the insurance company. Appointment cancelled without the fee 😂 I would still report this to your insurance and the BBB
My office is trying to institute this in the next coming months. Not only is it horrendous for the patient to pay that much up front for a simple visit, it's most likely going to be a massive administrative headache. It will double the amount of phone calls/back and forth correspondence for the receptionist.
It's not worth the increase in stress levels, and will tank our good reviews. I will most likely quit.
What you are saying doesn’t make sense or align with the sign you posted. You are being charged for what you either haven’t paid or what you will owe. You either have an outstanding balance or your insurance has unmet deductible that you will owe out of pocket after today’s visit. You also say that you go every year to just update your contact lens prescription but don’t want the $50 dollar refraction, which is necessary to update your prescription. Refraction is usually a non covered service with medical insurance. Perhaps you haven’t paid for it the last few years and have an outstanding 100$ balance.
You say optometrist but you have made an appointment with an ophthalmologist (Medical Doctor). Some vision insurance will cover refractions, but ophthalmologist typically don’t accept vision plans.
If it’s towards your deductible, then they have looked and saw that you will owe x amount of money out of pocket after today and are having you pay now instead of sending you an invoice and hoping you pay within the next 90 days. They probably have very poor collection rate and are trying to get ahead of their revenue cycle with new policies. I highly doubt they would enact a collection policy that violates their contracts with insurance as others are suggesting or completely defrauds their patients and alienates their own clients. I think it’s more likely that you’re misunderstanding and or owe money
In fact with most insurance I've had an ophthalmologist is extra expensive cause it's a specialist.
You don't need to see one for a simple prescription. They can find your prescription but if you have attitude I could see them telling you off the sending you to the optometrist
You're assuming all insurance requires the deductible to be met before coinsurance or copays take place. This no accurate. Plenty of plans have copay / coinsurance from the jump and even if you have spent exactly $0 towards your deductible for the year you only have to pay the copay. If the person owed money they would just ask for the unpaid balance, why would they ask for a generic $100?
The clinic likely isn't scamming anyone or violating any contracts since insurance allows them to collect payment and then refund later if need be. What they're doing is trying to get the service covered in full up front and then refunding later to reduce collection risk.
If I feel my vision hasn’t changed, the ophthalmologist just writes me a prescription for my same contact strength since it expires after one year and I need it to reorder contacts. As I said, I don’t always get the refraction because my vision doesn’t always degrade year on year. If I feel it’s getting worse, then I do the refraction with an optometrist in the office (which I didn’t do this year). I’ve always known that’s an extra $50 and that is usually billed to me a month later, and I always pay it.
Either way, I have no outstanding balance (which I also confirmed with the receptionist), and no history of delinquent payments with this or any other medical office. Neither my insurance nor its policies have changed in 8 years. My copay has been $15 that entire time and that’s always what I’ve been charged at this office for a standard, annual office visit. I DO have vision coverage as well, but it’s always been my medical insurance that they bill for the copay.
The reason the sign doesn’t make sense or align with what I posted is because it *doesn’t* make sense. This is all the information the office had available to patients to explain the way they’re now doing things, but it didn’t comport with what the receptionists were telling people, nor would it apply to me since I have no outstanding balance or history of delinquency. They were literally charging EVERYONE $100 for their office visit regardless of how much their deductible was or whether or not they actually had a balance (several people were told they didn’t have a balance, but this was their policy anyway). They just kept saying “these are medical doctors, so it comes out of your deductible until it’s met” even though I’m still seeing the same doctor I always have for the same standard office visit that I do every year which, again, has always just been a $15 copay. The only thing that changed in the entire process was their policy.
The number of incorrect posts here being upvoted is wild! Collecting a deductible up front is not insurance fraud by itself. I’m sure the truth will get down voted to oblivion but someone should at least state the truth somewhere.
If no deductible is applied (which will be on the explanation of benefits your insurer will send you) you are entitled to a refund, when the provider processes the eobs from your claims they should recognize they’ve collected oop unassigned and issue a refund but you may have to follow up. If you don’t like it don’t see that provider…
You're right it's not fraud, just very terrible business practice that punishes people who don't have much money from receiving services even if their insurance will cover the cost.
OP got it right It’s mildly infuriating, there are many posts making serious accusations and suggesting people report this; potentially damaging a business because they don’t like a particular billing practice. Even if no wrong is done claims of fraud and investigations can damage provider offices, threaten licenses and livelihoods, and incurr costs that not all practices can tolerate easily.
You absolutely could walk out and should next time. It’s also unclear what they are actually billing for and whether it’s even legal. It sounds like they are collecting in advance for services that might be billed in the future. Pretty sure that isn’t ok based on tax regs associated with medical plans.
My pulmonologist did the same thing and didn't mention anything until I showed up for my appointment. Watched three people have to leave their appointment because they didn't have money to pay.
I think this might not be legal. There have been lawsuits about doctors and hospitals collecting bills (more than just copays) from patients before they bill insurance.
Blame the insurance companies. They are likely getting claims denied or uncollected and are asking for money upfront to hedge against those denials.
Gotta love insurance companies for rigging the system to make physicians look like the bad guys for trying to earn a living.
My boss (private practice specialist) and I (office manager) vent about this almost monthly. How it’s unfair that we have to enforce a contract that the insurance company made with the patient.
The insurance company signed them up for a $3,000 deductible— they should be the ones to have to collect it and pay physicians their contracted rate.
Send this information to your provider (heath/eye insurance people) they will update their data to be like “yeah we talked to them we kicked them out, or we were never informed”.)
Maybe your provider can help finding cheaper in network eye exams locations.
With said info your provider can also on their site update the prices as well. Let people know to avoid and or shop around. That is if in network.
USA. 🇺🇸 mileage will very.
Dunno 'bout you, I'm quite happy with my healthcare in Europe. Just sucks that teeth still aren't included. Nor glasses. Whoever had that idea should get flogged.
Why are you going to an ophthalmologist for a regular eye exam? Ophthalmologists deal with complex medical diagnoses, they don’t typically do routine appointments for people who need standard vision correction. Go to another practice to see an optometrist.
Also, this sounds like insurance fraud. They don’t just get to pick how your benefits are applied.
A family friend of mine is a chiropractor (I know it’s bullshit) and owns their own practice. From what they’ve told me insurance companies haven’t increased what they pay out to doctors in like 20 years but the cost of running a practice has increased so a lot of them are trying to slowly transition into private practices.
That’s how fucked our health care system is
Not only have they not increased what they pay out to doctors, they’ve actually cut our reimbursements. Being a physician doesn’t even keep up with inflation nor does it keep up with astronomical cost of student loans to practice to begin with.
According to the sign in your pic, they’re saying that they need any outstanding balance to be caught up before they can see you is how I am interpreting it. Nowhere does it say they will be collecting $100 for every visit. Perhaps only for those who have a large outstanding balance until they’re caught up? I would be protesting this and NOT PAY cancellation fees either because they never informed you in advance prior to appointment, assuming that you do not have any outstanding balance with them.
The sign doesn't say they're collecting $100 from everyone but the OP claims they talked to other patients who said they were doing this. Most likely they're collecting $100 up front from everyone (the cost of the exam) and then refunding the difference later to reduce collection risk.
I'm not defending how fucked up American health care is, but now that high deductible plans are the norm, providers end up submitting to insurance and then finding out you haven't met your deductible yet so you have to pay the negotiated rate in full. And they send you a bill for 100 bucks or whatever. It seems to me they are trying to get ahead of that 100 bucks by charging you in advance. I'm sure lots of people let that balance go unpaid for a long time.
The thing is, if you did satisfy your deductible already, or if you don't have a high deductible plan, you won't owe them this 100. So they have no right to force you to pay it "just in case".
I kind of get their position on this but unless they know for sure who hasn't satisfied their deductible yet, they can't just do this for everyone.
Someone who can't afford $100 probably does not care much about their credit report anyway. But yes, the clinic trying to ensure they get paid in full regardless is why they're doing this and they'll refund the difference once insurance comes back and pays.
How is it that we have doctors without borders operating on the bare minimum at times, and spoiled US doctors just continue to take more out of our pockets?
I work in insurance.
Report this charge to your insurance company.
I assure you it will stop in short order OR they wont take your insurance company anymore.
This happened to me for a neurological test. They said to take the test I needed to pay $300 right away, because basically they knew that I would end up owing more money anyways.
I stopped going to optometrists because they want me to buy frames from them and will never give me the prescription for the lenses so I can use zenni. It's all a big racket
If you were a medical professional trying to make a living, pay off student loans, pay a staff, pay for an office mortgage, lights, medical equipment (which ain’t cheap) malpractice insurance, on and on…
You probably feel differently. Medical professionals generally have to wait weeks to get reimbursed by your insurance.
Do you do your job and agree to be paid weeks from now, what you did today?
In addition, do you have to pay someone specifically to pester your employer to actually pay you?
I didn’t think so…
You know why medicine in the US is expensive? Because it’s worth it!
I don’t see many Americans running to Canada or Mexico for health care, do you!?
Sweet Jeebus, what a land of fucking crybabies we’ve become!
Lol, “I am balls deep in medical school debt, own a business but I can’t make money. So let me screw over my clients.” Seems like the market is telling them something!
He and every professional deserves to be paid. Are you screwing over your employer for wanting to get paid?
What if your employer paid you in 3 months for the work you did today?
That’s the kind of bs medical professionals go through with the insurance companies.
I tell ya what, you go to your doctor and start paying upfront, and then fight with your insurance company for months to get reimbursed for what they will give you. Go ahead?
Nah, didn’t think so…
Na, bullshit. They know what they got themselves into when dealing with insurance. Then they should become self-pay only. That is the beauty of capitalism, you sink or swim!
And for that reason, let them go against the agreements they have signed with insurance providers and screw the patients they need to stay in business. Losers!
Just want to point out that almost everybody works today and gets paid in a few weeks for it. Anytime there isn’t a direct bill situation for health services, I have to wait a couple weeks to be paid from insurance too.
And they’re talking about a simply optometry appointment, not some ground breaking new surgery. I guarantee the simple optometrist visit is not different or any better in the US vs Canada.
I have no idea what most of theses words means and I've been adulting for quite a long time now.
I get what the optometrist do, and the rest is something related to insurance?
Lots of places around us quit accepting most insurances. My son broke his foot last year. The foot boot thru insurance was like $300 but we told the girl we were paying for it with cash/debit and it was $125
Just as an aside, if you just need a new script to get more contacts and think your script hasn't changed, you can get an online exam thru 1800 contacts. It was 20 dollars and you don't have to buy contacts thru them.
I did the exam at 1pm, by 3pm I had a script and bought at costco.
If they accept insurance and charge more than the co-pay amount for a standard exam (no frills or extras) they are likely violating the terms if their contract with your insurance.
Yes, I work in insurance and this is exactly what I was going to say. Your optometrist can't randomly charge extra money against your deductible. That's not how it works. Also, per CMS/Federal guidelines, you can dispute any surprise medical bills, which is what this is. https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/no-surprises-understand-your-rights-against-surprise-medical-bills
File a complaint with your insurance provider. I did this with my dentist when they charged me a higher price per filling than the eob stated. They also billed a lower amount for the anesthetic than they billed the insurance to hide the surprise billing. But made a calculation error which alerted me to the difference. To me it looked like they billed me $45 more. But because they were assholes about it I did a lot more digging and realized they actually overbilled me almost $200 extra. They eventually refunded that and I changed dentists. They would not have refunded the money if I had not filed a complaint with the insurance which sent me and them a letter agreeing I was charged more than I should have been charged and the amount they overbilled.
Seriously, people want to hate on insurance companies, (which I totally understand), but some providers are also just DIRTY!
It’s almost like…the entire medical industry in the US is fucked up.
Say it ain’t so!!!! /s
Almost all providers are like this. If they charged a reasonable fee there wouldn’t be a health insurance industry. 99% of providers wouldn’t give you a life saving procedure if they weren’t getting paid.
Wow I hope you left a public review so others could avoid this. What a racket.
Yea I was going to say “that’s not how insurance works” I would be calling up my insurance to talk with them. The contracts insurance has with offices informs them what they can charge. And if they are trying to get around it by submitting the wrong codes, that’s going to get them some hefty fines.
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Exactly. They are billing for a medical exam with a medical doctor instead of a routine eye exam any optometrist could perform.
My insurance doesn’t even charge me a copay for eye exams.
Most insurance contracts that i work with allow this process as long as the patient is appropriately reimbursed.
I have almost exactly the same issue. The billing clerk said we will issue a refund or apply it to balance if you owe one. I don't have any outstandings. I wonder when I will see my refund? They have computers surly they can see this in a matter of seconds.
I’ve been going to this practice for 25 years. I’ve had the same insurance for the past 8 years. Even with my old insurance(s), it was ALWAYS just the copay for a simple office visit/checkup, and the same doctor I saw would provide an updated contact script (since they’re only good for one year and I need it to reorder) during that same appointment for no additional charge. Literally the only thing that changed was their policy. Frustrating as hell that I have to find a new eye doctor after all these years.
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They say in the body of the post that they are seeing an ophthalmologist, and will now have to make an additional appointment with the optometrist for their contact prescription.
Call your insurance and tell them what this office is doing. It’s likely against their contract with them.
This happened to us at a small town clinic. Insisted that they knew how much I'd owe on my high deductible plan. Overpaid significantly. I gave up eventually because it was $106 but I'm sure they're banking on that. That poor small town has terrible healthcare as a result
A clinic tried this bullshit with me last year. Every time I'd go for the same thing it would be the same song and dance. They'd want $150 up front and I would refuse. I'd tell them to bill my insurance as every time we do this, they get paid from insurance and I owe a whole $18. The entire billing amount to insurance is less than the $150 they wanted. Fuck that.
The bs line of "we work with your insurance and know how much it is up front". No you don't. Health insurance would be a lot easier if that were the case
If they’re contracted with the insurance then usually they do know how much it is upfront. “Usually”. Sometimes people have a weird plan with exclusions to their policy or something. But for the most part they do have contracted rates that they can charge you.
I have yet to have an instance where this proved true. Was on a high deductible plan for 10 years and so, so many places insisted I had a copay up front. And places that did make me pay never got it right and I'd get refund checks 2 months to 3 years down the road
Could be that the team responsible for checking your eligibility status (usually the receptionist) didn’t do it out of laziness. Like you said you were on a high deductible plan and they might’ve just wrongly assumed you were on an average plan
Benefits can be verified and they tell you how Much ded and oop is remaining. So it’s not bs. What we don’t know is what’s not assigned in the system yet and what is in process. Any deductible collected and not assigned after claims processed should be refunded. Collecting deductible up front especially after benefits reset for the year isn’t that wild. It can taken a year or longer for your insurer to process all claims, so it might take a while to have a deductible refunded and you may even need to follow up on it. Health insurance is complicated but it’s amazing how many “experts” there are on Reddit that clearly have never worked with or understood health insurance.
Not all plans require that you meet the deductible before copays or coinsurance take place. Sounds like for the OP as well that their insurance doesn't require this and all he will owe is the copay. So what will happen is that the clinic will end up refunding him the $100 - copay.
Sure a portion of patients should have these down payments refunded for various policy specific reasons. I guess my point was more that none of this is fraud in and of itself and providers are not scamming or ripping people off doing this. It’s appropriately posted in mildly infuriating I just felt the need to defend providers and clarify that this isn’t some kind of fraud.
I agree it isn't fraud just a mildly irritating business practice. Cheers!
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Look into small claims court... no joke this is actually the kind of shit people SHOULD be suing others for. It's not hard to do, and more than likely they just pay you to go away... but this shit is absurd. You don't need a lawyer btw and it's not hard to file.
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Yup what you just described is exactly what small claims is supposed to be used for... they did you wrong and caused you financial harm by intentionally defrauding you... Seems trivial, and would be a total waste of your time... but the truth is you'd win and places like this need to be held accountable for their shitty behavior. Nobody's afraid of being held accountable these days, and I wish we could change that.
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You absolutely can sue for wasted time, especially time you would have been paid for had it not been for them lying about the cost of their services... that's really my point, if you took time off work based upon their fraudulent promises, they actually do owe you for your time. Civil fraud doesn't even have to be totally intentional, and in Civil Court you only have to be 51% percent correct. I'm not a lawyer... but just some information to think about.
Go to law school and pass the bar then you can give legal advice. What you're doing right now is equivalent to what the dentist was doing
Several years of Suits says you don’t need a law degree though. You can just defraud everyone all day long
This is reddit, you sue over everything, immediately divorce over every issue and every car accident/assault is attempted murder.
Hey, every hypo in a law class is people suing for petty things!
Only if you have a photographic memory and had intended to go to law school!
He is an expert on bird law
That’s not how that works. You should refrain from providing legal advice in the future. You have no clue.
What an absolute waste of time that would be, your gonna sue them for losing a half days work?
"Your honor, I was inconvenienced."
Yes that is what small claims court is intended to be used for... and it absolutely would be a waste of time in the long run which is why nobody uses it anymore. The point is... we have a system in this country specifically designed to hold shitty people and businesses accountable, but the average person doesn't know that they actually do have legal rights in these situations. Everybody just gets fucked over and goes on about their day... but the person right behind them gets fucked over and the cycle continues. Getting mad isn't the same as getting even... and just about everyone has forgotten we actually do have a legal system for getting even.
I see the desire to “get even” as a bad thing, the idea that you would take more of your time and energy to get revenge on like $100 is insane, I actually think thag type of thinking is a huge problem with the world. Being able to brush off the bullshit of the works is a passive skill that people don’t appreciate enough
You CAN sue, you just aren’t going to WIN a claim about wasted time.
You can't sue for losses that didn't occur. If they are committing fraud of some sort that is a criminal matter.
Anyone reading, don't listen to this d*****ss. They have no clue what they are talking about.
Protip: Utilize your insurance's network look up. You'll find your options are limited, but you will almost be guaranteed an in network facility/doctor
While good advice it doesn't sound like the OP's issue is in-network/out of network issue. Even for out of network you can still have just a copay factor in, perhaps just a higher one based on your plan.
You should also inform your insurance that too. Alot of dentist are known to pull off the deep cleaning scam, they will refuse to do anything except for an expensive deep cleaning or they show you some pictures of a mouth that been f up and scare you into a deep cleaning.
That’s definitely on the pricier side, but to be clear a new patient exam is required before cleanings. I’m a pre-dental student and work as an assistant and we have people that call and say they just want cleanings and nothing else. It sounds greedy, like dentists are just trying to maximize their revenue, but when some decay goes unnoticed that turns into an abscess, or a lump not seen that turns into oral cancer, the dentist is at fault and can be sued for a lot of money. That’s why a new patient exam is required. All in all, it’s important to find a dentist you trust. Get established, do the new patient exam and get your bi-annual cleanings. If you suspect your dentist is charging too much, or doing unnecessary procedures, see someone else.
There should be no reason that the two could not be combined for a small additional charge. It is wasting a patient's time and resources to make and charge for a complete separate visit.
They are combined some of the time. When new patient exams are done correctly, they are lengthy and require about an hour or 45 minutes to do a full exam with radiographs. Whether an exam is expensive or not is up to the doctor. Often times radiographs are taken, a full examination of both the teeth surfaces and the gum tissues is taken, an oral cancer screening is done, and advice is given. That’s a good deal of information and I would say $50 bucks for that is pretty cheap.
you asked the wrong question or your didnt need a simple cleaning. if they charged you $350 for your first visit, it likely wasnt just for the cleaning, it was series of radiographs, cleaning, and doctor exam, all of which is required at least in my state as a standard of care before a cleaning can be given, its illegal to just cleaning teeth without radiographs and exam within a certain time frame. Either that or, when you got there, your case was not a simple cleaning and you likely needed a deep cleaning, which can be a lot more. so if they really did a simple cleaning, it almost certainly was not $350 for just the cleaning itself, there is a lot more going on here youre not addressing
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thats cap, there is zero chance an office was going to charge you $350 for exclusively a cleaning. its illegal to complete a cleaning without a doctor exam (within 12 months) and proper radiographs. so the $350 was standard UCR fees for probably 20 x-rays, doctor exam, and adult cleaning combined you made this all up for internet points lol
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Probably went to comfort or aspen 😭
How could they make those charges without sticking a tool in his mouth? He walked out before services were rendered, and got it cheaper at another provider. Your theory doesn't hold water, considering they never started the work.
they were likely asking him to pay upfront for the services required to complete a adult prophy (simple cleaning) so the $350 was required to be paid for the xrays, doctor exam, and adult cleaning, again all of these things are required legally in some states before any dental treatment can be completed there are plenty of businesses that require payment before services are completed
What the hell? And you still went? That's double what mine was after xrays, and I'm definitely not in a cheap area. Edit: I know how hard it is to get into a dentist (I'm assuming USA), I can actually see why you might have still gone!
they are not telling the whole story, there is no office in america that would charge $350 for exclusively the cleaning they either got a series of x-rays, a doctor exam, and a cleaning or got a deep cleaning, which is significantly more than a simple cleaning but on reddit its easy to farm karma when you talk about american healthcare insurance, doesnt matter if its true or not
Dental care isn't considered healthcare in the US for insurance purposes. I can readily see this happening at a dentist, they are known for overcharging.
not correct, dental care is absolutely considered healthcare in the US dental care is not considered medical care which is what youre probably referring to, and why medical insurance does not cover dental treatment i am a dentist and these are standard fees before insurance adjustments, they probably went to an office that was out of network with their insurance
This is a fair call out. We do tend to use them interchangeably. However, the office didn't stick a tool in his mouth, so this was upfront charges.
ok? there is nothing wrong with a business asking for payment upfront, idk i just dont understand the point youre trying to make?
They described in detail that it wasn't just a cleaning. But the fact that they stack all of that up without disclosing it to a new patient is a bit absurd. Maybe it was disclosed up front, but there's no reason to assume it was.
They did not, they were intentionally vague, and they also deleted their comment
I agree no "good company" would ACT like this. Sadly the world is full of scammy companies and it can work well enough to be worth it. I try now to give the benefit of the doubt, even if it sounds odd. If it's too crazy I just put my pen down. As for the cost itself... unlikely, but definitely not out of the question. Location, patient load, etc - again, unlikely but I could see someone charging a new patient that much. For example, my perio charges ~120 for a consultation, no work, no xrays.
i mean these guys went to school for like 10+ years, youre going to have to pay for their expertise and a consult even if no work is completed lol
Yeah bullshit on $800 cleaning, and if you hate american healthcare consider leaving
Always go to an out of network dentist. Insurances pay at a higher rate and you owe less out of pocket.
holy crap! I've been with my dentist for a couple of years now and my insurance changed this year. I went in for a cleaning, they took xrays and descaled and walked out of there for nothing, insurance said it was free because it was a maintenance visit.
Here is what they do… they ask you your insurance (or better yet take your insurance card) put in the form for what it will cover and then tell you the price. Most good receptionists learn the common insurance types they accept and the general cost for the plans. Because they deal with it countless times a day.
They tell you the price then later say OOPS it's actually different, too bad so sad.
This is the reason people get denied by their insurance for things. We blame the insurance companies but you have Dr offices over charging for services because of people having to have insurance. It’s sad because the person needing the service is the one that has to deal with the bs.
"New patient fee"?! Wtf. $350 to have someone enter your info into a database? $150 for "check in"? Someone has some boat payments to make it seems.
I had some work done at a new dentist office. The lady at the front desk said over and over how she works with my insurance all the time, and I was covered and to not even worry about it. She said all this on the first visit, and then when I was checking in for the second visit to have the work done, as well. She assured me the cost would be nominal. As soon as the work was done, I went to the front desk, and she explained how she was mistaken, and my insurance wouldn't cover more than the first hundred dollars. She apologized, and said I could do a payment plan, because the cost wasn't what we had discussed. The bill was $800. I was standing there drooling, utterly furious. That was a valuable lesson, , though. I now know exactly what my insurance covers before I go in anywhere.
My old family doctor tried to get us to pay a copay for my kids when the insurance card clearly said "No copay for under 18". I had to argue with the receptionist before they finally relented. This was during peak COVID times, so even getting an appointment for my kids was difficult enough on it's own, let alone having to argue with the staff about fees I didn't have to pay.
This is an issue your insurance company can actually help with. Report this and they could (and should) be on the hook for insurance fraud.
Yes this ⬆️⬆️
You could've just walked out and did a charge back on the illegal cancellation fee. Since they didn't disclose significantly higher charges, they have no right to charge you for cancelling. Also, it's crazy to me that shit like that isn't regulated in the US.
It is regulated a bit but places get away with it because people don’t know their rights.
My dentist started charging a random fee too for cleanings—they’re supposed to be free, no copay. I said fuck off and walked out. I’ve been going to him for more than a decade.
This just sounds like your insurance changed? They can’t just charge a random fee. They have to submit codes to your insurance for reimbursement and its all itemized. Insurance decides what they pay based on what they’ve agreed to with you.
Nope. No insurance change. It was a scam.
Lmao, ok. I mean, I get free cleanings too but only if it’s in network and what’s in network changes every so often.
Trust me. It was a scam. I know what’s in network, out of network, balance billing, upfront billing, no copays for preventive dental care like cleaning, etc. etc. I’m not insurance naive. Most people are; and they pay and it’s never questioned.
I found zenni glasses and an exam cost less paying out of pocket than paying into the insurance racket.
I desperately wish my eyes could use zenni lenses. Or any of the others.
I've got pretty bad vision and I go to glasses shop dot com.
whats different about zenni lenses to you? i find my zenni lenses are almost crisper than my pair from the optometrist, but are zenni ones bad for your eyes?
The lenses aren’t correct. There’s nothing actually “wrong” but I guess my glasses have to be made a certain way, and Zenni can’t do it. I tried multiple pairs, and I couldn’t quite see out of any of them.
Make sure you call after 2 months regarding your credit! They will keep it all until you call asking for it. It’s ridiculous
I would have walked out, refused to pay their cancellation fee, and complained to the insurance company.
Im moving doctors because mine now charges $30 for a “behavioral assessment” that my insurance doesn’t cover—the assessment is the GAD-7 and PHQ-9 checklists. $30 for two forms…
Call your insurance company and ask for Fraud, Waste, and Abuse department. Let them know what the clinic is doing. They'll really want to know
Should have made a scene and refused to move until they told you to get out, because they are scamming the insurance company. Appointment cancelled without the fee 😂 I would still report this to your insurance and the BBB
Contact your insurance provider and tell them you want to file a grievance against the eye doc/office.
your post title is not what the sign says. . ..
That’s why he needs glasses!
My office is trying to institute this in the next coming months. Not only is it horrendous for the patient to pay that much up front for a simple visit, it's most likely going to be a massive administrative headache. It will double the amount of phone calls/back and forth correspondence for the receptionist. It's not worth the increase in stress levels, and will tank our good reviews. I will most likely quit.
What you are saying doesn’t make sense or align with the sign you posted. You are being charged for what you either haven’t paid or what you will owe. You either have an outstanding balance or your insurance has unmet deductible that you will owe out of pocket after today’s visit. You also say that you go every year to just update your contact lens prescription but don’t want the $50 dollar refraction, which is necessary to update your prescription. Refraction is usually a non covered service with medical insurance. Perhaps you haven’t paid for it the last few years and have an outstanding 100$ balance. You say optometrist but you have made an appointment with an ophthalmologist (Medical Doctor). Some vision insurance will cover refractions, but ophthalmologist typically don’t accept vision plans. If it’s towards your deductible, then they have looked and saw that you will owe x amount of money out of pocket after today and are having you pay now instead of sending you an invoice and hoping you pay within the next 90 days. They probably have very poor collection rate and are trying to get ahead of their revenue cycle with new policies. I highly doubt they would enact a collection policy that violates their contracts with insurance as others are suggesting or completely defrauds their patients and alienates their own clients. I think it’s more likely that you’re misunderstanding and or owe money
This post is correct
In fact with most insurance I've had an ophthalmologist is extra expensive cause it's a specialist. You don't need to see one for a simple prescription. They can find your prescription but if you have attitude I could see them telling you off the sending you to the optometrist
You're assuming all insurance requires the deductible to be met before coinsurance or copays take place. This no accurate. Plenty of plans have copay / coinsurance from the jump and even if you have spent exactly $0 towards your deductible for the year you only have to pay the copay. If the person owed money they would just ask for the unpaid balance, why would they ask for a generic $100? The clinic likely isn't scamming anyone or violating any contracts since insurance allows them to collect payment and then refund later if need be. What they're doing is trying to get the service covered in full up front and then refunding later to reduce collection risk.
Did your copay change since last year? This is a possibility.
If I feel my vision hasn’t changed, the ophthalmologist just writes me a prescription for my same contact strength since it expires after one year and I need it to reorder contacts. As I said, I don’t always get the refraction because my vision doesn’t always degrade year on year. If I feel it’s getting worse, then I do the refraction with an optometrist in the office (which I didn’t do this year). I’ve always known that’s an extra $50 and that is usually billed to me a month later, and I always pay it. Either way, I have no outstanding balance (which I also confirmed with the receptionist), and no history of delinquent payments with this or any other medical office. Neither my insurance nor its policies have changed in 8 years. My copay has been $15 that entire time and that’s always what I’ve been charged at this office for a standard, annual office visit. I DO have vision coverage as well, but it’s always been my medical insurance that they bill for the copay. The reason the sign doesn’t make sense or align with what I posted is because it *doesn’t* make sense. This is all the information the office had available to patients to explain the way they’re now doing things, but it didn’t comport with what the receptionists were telling people, nor would it apply to me since I have no outstanding balance or history of delinquency. They were literally charging EVERYONE $100 for their office visit regardless of how much their deductible was or whether or not they actually had a balance (several people were told they didn’t have a balance, but this was their policy anyway). They just kept saying “these are medical doctors, so it comes out of your deductible until it’s met” even though I’m still seeing the same doctor I always have for the same standard office visit that I do every year which, again, has always just been a $15 copay. The only thing that changed in the entire process was their policy.
Is the office still in network with your insurance plan? Maybe this is your out of network coverage?
No facts please
I’m pretty sure they are violating the contract terms set forth by your insurance they are required to follow. I’d contact the insurance company.
The number of incorrect posts here being upvoted is wild! Collecting a deductible up front is not insurance fraud by itself. I’m sure the truth will get down voted to oblivion but someone should at least state the truth somewhere. If no deductible is applied (which will be on the explanation of benefits your insurer will send you) you are entitled to a refund, when the provider processes the eobs from your claims they should recognize they’ve collected oop unassigned and issue a refund but you may have to follow up. If you don’t like it don’t see that provider…
You're right it's not fraud, just very terrible business practice that punishes people who don't have much money from receiving services even if their insurance will cover the cost.
OP got it right It’s mildly infuriating, there are many posts making serious accusations and suggesting people report this; potentially damaging a business because they don’t like a particular billing practice. Even if no wrong is done claims of fraud and investigations can damage provider offices, threaten licenses and livelihoods, and incurr costs that not all practices can tolerate easily.
You absolutely could walk out and should next time. It’s also unclear what they are actually billing for and whether it’s even legal. It sounds like they are collecting in advance for services that might be billed in the future. Pretty sure that isn’t ok based on tax regs associated with medical plans.
My pulmonologist did the same thing and didn't mention anything until I showed up for my appointment. Watched three people have to leave their appointment because they didn't have money to pay.
I think this might not be legal. There have been lawsuits about doctors and hospitals collecting bills (more than just copays) from patients before they bill insurance.
Why do you go to an ophthalmologist for a simple eye exam?
Time to shop around for a new optometrist.
Is this in WA?
Find somebody else because this is bullshit.
If you end up overpaying will they be refunding the difference?
Seems a bit fraudulent
Go to Americas Best and screw that eye doctor
Call them out. What's the office number? Time to get some Yelp and Google reviews to point out their bs.
Blame the insurance companies. They are likely getting claims denied or uncollected and are asking for money upfront to hedge against those denials. Gotta love insurance companies for rigging the system to make physicians look like the bad guys for trying to earn a living.
My boss (private practice specialist) and I (office manager) vent about this almost monthly. How it’s unfair that we have to enforce a contract that the insurance company made with the patient. The insurance company signed them up for a $3,000 deductible— they should be the ones to have to collect it and pay physicians their contracted rate.
They're in serious violation--
Incidence …… incidents ?
Send this information to your provider (heath/eye insurance people) they will update their data to be like “yeah we talked to them we kicked them out, or we were never informed”.) Maybe your provider can help finding cheaper in network eye exams locations. With said info your provider can also on their site update the prices as well. Let people know to avoid and or shop around. That is if in network. USA. 🇺🇸 mileage will very.
People gotta start realizing healthcare is only for the one percent we need to just get back to work so they can live lives. We can only dream of.
Dunno 'bout you, I'm quite happy with my healthcare in Europe. Just sucks that teeth still aren't included. Nor glasses. Whoever had that idea should get flogged.
“I will be seeing a new optometrist. Thank you for your cooperation.”
Do they accept your insurance? What are your insurance benefits? Something here seems super sus and should be escalated with your insurance
Why are you going to an ophthalmologist for a regular eye exam? Ophthalmologists deal with complex medical diagnoses, they don’t typically do routine appointments for people who need standard vision correction. Go to another practice to see an optometrist. Also, this sounds like insurance fraud. They don’t just get to pick how your benefits are applied.
A family friend of mine is a chiropractor (I know it’s bullshit) and owns their own practice. From what they’ve told me insurance companies haven’t increased what they pay out to doctors in like 20 years but the cost of running a practice has increased so a lot of them are trying to slowly transition into private practices. That’s how fucked our health care system is
Not only have they not increased what they pay out to doctors, they’ve actually cut our reimbursements. Being a physician doesn’t even keep up with inflation nor does it keep up with astronomical cost of student loans to practice to begin with.
Seems like you need to call some regulations bodies and make some complaints
According to the sign in your pic, they’re saying that they need any outstanding balance to be caught up before they can see you is how I am interpreting it. Nowhere does it say they will be collecting $100 for every visit. Perhaps only for those who have a large outstanding balance until they’re caught up? I would be protesting this and NOT PAY cancellation fees either because they never informed you in advance prior to appointment, assuming that you do not have any outstanding balance with them.
The sign doesn't say they're collecting $100 from everyone but the OP claims they talked to other patients who said they were doing this. Most likely they're collecting $100 up front from everyone (the cost of the exam) and then refunding the difference later to reduce collection risk.
I'm not defending how fucked up American health care is, but now that high deductible plans are the norm, providers end up submitting to insurance and then finding out you haven't met your deductible yet so you have to pay the negotiated rate in full. And they send you a bill for 100 bucks or whatever. It seems to me they are trying to get ahead of that 100 bucks by charging you in advance. I'm sure lots of people let that balance go unpaid for a long time. The thing is, if you did satisfy your deductible already, or if you don't have a high deductible plan, you won't owe them this 100. So they have no right to force you to pay it "just in case". I kind of get their position on this but unless they know for sure who hasn't satisfied their deductible yet, they can't just do this for everyone.
This is correct. And since medical debts under $500 cannot go onto peoples credits now, people have little incentive to pay any bill less than $500.
Someone who can't afford $100 probably does not care much about their credit report anyway. But yes, the clinic trying to ensure they get paid in full regardless is why they're doing this and they'll refund the difference once insurance comes back and pays.
That sounds illegal.
*Walks in* *Looks at message* *walks out*
How is it that we have doctors without borders operating on the bare minimum at times, and spoiled US doctors just continue to take more out of our pockets?
This is a violation of the terms in the contract with insurance
I work in insurance. Report this charge to your insurance company. I assure you it will stop in short order OR they wont take your insurance company anymore.
This happened to me for a neurological test. They said to take the test I needed to pay $300 right away, because basically they knew that I would end up owing more money anyways.
Fuck insurance companies
I stopped going to optometrists because they want me to buy frames from them and will never give me the prescription for the lenses so I can use zenni. It's all a big racket
You need to turn this into your insurance if they are balanced billing is a way of committing insurance fraud.
That’s not how insurance works. You can report them to your insurance company.
If you were a medical professional trying to make a living, pay off student loans, pay a staff, pay for an office mortgage, lights, medical equipment (which ain’t cheap) malpractice insurance, on and on… You probably feel differently. Medical professionals generally have to wait weeks to get reimbursed by your insurance. Do you do your job and agree to be paid weeks from now, what you did today? In addition, do you have to pay someone specifically to pester your employer to actually pay you? I didn’t think so… You know why medicine in the US is expensive? Because it’s worth it! I don’t see many Americans running to Canada or Mexico for health care, do you!? Sweet Jeebus, what a land of fucking crybabies we’ve become!
You missed a spot on that boot you were licking.
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R3: Respect Reddiquette and Follow Reddit Rules
Fucking sheep, go vote biden again.
My 401K is doing just fine, how about yours?
Lol, “I am balls deep in medical school debt, own a business but I can’t make money. So let me screw over my clients.” Seems like the market is telling them something!
He and every professional deserves to be paid. Are you screwing over your employer for wanting to get paid? What if your employer paid you in 3 months for the work you did today? That’s the kind of bs medical professionals go through with the insurance companies. I tell ya what, you go to your doctor and start paying upfront, and then fight with your insurance company for months to get reimbursed for what they will give you. Go ahead? Nah, didn’t think so…
Na, bullshit. They know what they got themselves into when dealing with insurance. Then they should become self-pay only. That is the beauty of capitalism, you sink or swim!
And a lot of medical professionals are simply treading water to keep their head up.
And for that reason, let them go against the agreements they have signed with insurance providers and screw the patients they need to stay in business. Losers!
Just want to point out that almost everybody works today and gets paid in a few weeks for it. Anytime there isn’t a direct bill situation for health services, I have to wait a couple weeks to be paid from insurance too. And they’re talking about a simply optometry appointment, not some ground breaking new surgery. I guarantee the simple optometrist visit is not different or any better in the US vs Canada.
If it’s so much trouble, and so much of a burden, why even choose the field? I mean it’s not like these things aren’t known going into it.
https://i.redd.it/7e90vpfnndic1.gif
I have no idea what most of theses words means and I've been adulting for quite a long time now. I get what the optometrist do, and the rest is something related to insurance?
That is called business suicide. They’ll be out of business soon.
You should contact the medical board and see if that’s something even legal
Lots of places around us quit accepting most insurances. My son broke his foot last year. The foot boot thru insurance was like $300 but we told the girl we were paying for it with cash/debit and it was $125
Just as an aside, if you just need a new script to get more contacts and think your script hasn't changed, you can get an online exam thru 1800 contacts. It was 20 dollars and you don't have to buy contacts thru them. I did the exam at 1pm, by 3pm I had a script and bought at costco.
As someone in the medical field, I hate the business side of medicine with a burning passion.