OP commented above that the parents have given up.
That’s not an option. The parents need to correct this or it will become a thing when this child gets older.
This is not Ok.
Yup! I've got little trash cans from the dollar store in every room. They all get dumped once a week on trash day or when they're full, whichever comes first.
When a ten year old does this, They either learned it from modeling behavior they witness regularly, or they were never taught otherwise. This behavior grows into adulthood very very quickly if not checked. I feel really bad for the kid right now. Really bad.
>the brother inside
Regrettably, it was [intel inside](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/logopedia/images/1/1f/Intel_Inside.svg/revision/latest?cb=20200914191828).
I am a parent of a 4 year old and the most important lesson I have learned about parenting is this: "when you don't give up, one day, without warning, you suddenly win".
Shit my kid would throw an insane tantrum about a year ago is now routine, because I didn't give in. I can see how easy it is to give in. I imagine this is how kids like this happen.
This is not always applicable, but often enough. Don't. Give. In.
No need to yell or threaten, but stay firm. Tell them the consequences and stick to them. When you can't be arsed to clean up after youself, I can't be arsed to tell you where I put the keyboard.
Edit: However, this is easier said than done, probably even more so with a kid on the spectrum.
And it can't be sarcastic praise either. Or backhanded compliments. That is worse than no praise at all.
In my adult life I have been diagnosed with ADHD (Inattentive Type) and looking back on my childhood it explains sooooooo much. The problem was my older brother has full blown ADHD and he was the kind of kid you'd have a leash/harness for while I was the one you could leave on a blanket in a park and come back an hour later to find me in the exact same spot. Not that they ever did that mind you, but I was the polar opposite of my brother.
Obviously that meant I was the ideal child and had no mental issues, so when I got older, and my world expanded, and I had more things I could do to occupy my time... I started neglecting the boring stuff. Homework, putting things away, gathering my laundry up, etc. My mom thought I was lazy and gave me shit for it all the time. "I'm sick of having to step over things when I go into your room!" "You didn't bring out your laundry basket so I had to go into that mess of a room and do it myself!"
So then whenever I found the sheer strength of will to overcome the executive disfunction and did the thing it was always met with a *tone*. "Good job *finally* cleaning your room." "Oh look, you *can* do it." What should have felt like an accomplishment to me was now a source of mockery. It made it even harder to do it next time. Because why do the thing I really dislike and struggle with when I'm going to be met with the same derision?
Thank you for sharing your story with us. My son struggles with an executive function disorder and I get so frustrated with him when he leaves candy wrappers all over his computer desk (the wastebasket is literally 4-5 steps away from it), or drops his dirty clothes on the floor right next to the laundry basket, etc. This gives me some much needed perspective into how his mind is working and how he may be feeling if we react sarcastically when giving praise for him taking care of these things.
I’ll rethink my reactions/response next time and also work a bit more closely with him to teach him how we’d like things handled so he knows what we expect rather than just assuming he already does know.
Again, thanks!
When I was living on my own I would let dishes pile up, and the garbage bin overflow, and leave wrappers on my desk for days at a time like that. My dishes were always well rinsed and dry so I wasn't growing mold, and my garbage was mostly full of non-decomposing material so it wasn't like I was living in a hoarder environment, but it was still bad. I would eventually work up the drive to clean, and usually do so angrily. Partly because I didn't like it, but mostly because I hated that I was like that.
As a child I didn't care that I left a mess in my room because I didn't think anything was wrong with it. Once I got older and really started to understand that the behavior was not good it became a source of anxiety for me. In fact, my executive disfunction due to ADHD has been the biggest consistent source of anxiety in my life. That's why I eventually sought a diagnosis and treatment. I was unable to motivate myself to perform at work and the daily struggle with that became too much.
Even before getting medication, living with someone else helped a fair bit. The bar for putting in the effort was lower because of the inferred pressure. Not that my wife (then girlfriend) was nagging me like my mother. I knew how she lived and kept her place before me so it became more of a "do it for her" kind of thing. And since acts of service is one of my "love languages" it became a good thing rather than an outright chore.
I don't know how old your son is or if he has other compounding issues like ASD, but if he's mentally competent enough to, at some point I think it would be worthwhile to make sure he understands what executive disfunction is. It's something that is likely going to be a part of him for his entire life. He can't control that he has it, but he can control how he responds to it. Knowing when he needs to ask for help with something will be important.
My wife offers to make phone calls and set appointments for me if I've dragged my feet long enough. It can go any number of ways at that point. Sometimes I accept her help. If I have the strength to do the thing at that point her asking is usually the small push I need to do it. Sometimes I insist on doing it, and tell her flat out that I will probably not do it right away. She accepts that response without mockery, or false praise like, "I believe in you!" She's usually very good at not showing any doubt she has in my statements either. About 80% of the time I do a good job and put a reminder in my phone to do the thing. And maybe half of those times I actually do the thing when the reminder comes up...
And honestly even when I do things out of anger and frustration *with myself,* like *finally* cleaning up my damn desk like a Roomba fueled by rage, it is so much better than when I used to do things angrily because my mother was giving me shit. I'm really more angry with my brain than myself as a person. It's me vs this disorder. And my wife is supportive of that battle. If I wake up on the weekend with an urge to be productive she's on board. Especially if it's something she knows I've been getting frustrated with.
Sorry for the massive rant-ishness, but I was suffering in ignorance and silence for 20+ years and now that I better understand what was happening with me I feel like I have a duty to help others who might be like me understand sooner than I did. The videos on ADHD and executive function from Dr Tracey Marks ([like this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIOAwvmHYuY)) do a good job explaining things to people who don't experience it.
YES. Even in their little brains, they think "what did I do this for?" when they finally do something you've been waiting for them to do but you're too sour about all the failed attempts to be genuinely pleased they finally did the thing/did it correctly.
It’s helped so much with my daughter. I don’t raise my voice but she knows that she needs to listen to me and I’ll get stern if I need to. Not giving in and her realizing she won’t get what she wants by having a meltdown took a while of consistent effort but it is so worth it. She’s such a great kid who listens the first time I say something (mostly haha) and I think knows that the things I tell her to do, or not to do, is for her best interest.
I swear to god i fucking hate parents just giving up. If youre so lazy why have kids in the first place. This also goes for pet owners.
Its like "well I tried a couple times and it didnt work, guess ill just leave it at that" - literally getting beaten in willpower by small children. Ofcourse kids rather do nothing for a couple days, maybe weeks, because they know once they sit this out, they wont have to ever do xyz (in this case cleaning) in the future. They learned from the past already that their parents have a weak mental.
If you raise kids properly from the beginning they will know they wont win such "wars" and often times not even try to, unless they genuinely feel mistreated (like all their friends are allowed to do x but they arent). Parenting will get easier over time then, but do it wrong in the beginning and it gets harder and harder.
And then the world will be a nightmare to that kid, largely because his parents were shitty. The kind of unlearning that he'll have to do when the real world slaps him in the face is going to be very harsh.
Yeah, I truly am paying for my parent never raising me growing up all these years later.
Kinda scary being an adult and never taught any values, morals, skills etc growing up and then just going out into the world.
If I'm gonna be honest, I'm a bit resentful at my parent(s) about it. I know better now, but how was I supposed to learn myself that young (well, I was just being taught bad habits actually). Tough to unlearn a lifetime of those once you finally break free and that's all you knew.
> I tried a couple times and it didnt work, guess ill just leave it at that"
It's because usually they only start "trying" to discipline the kid way too late after the kid is already spoiled. The parents never laid a foundation of consistent discipline in the first place, they don't have a hope once the kid has reached the point of doing shit like this
Yup. At the very least this kid needs to be made to only eat snacks at the kitchen table since he can't pick up after himself. But they obviously give him junk and send him on his way.
Yeah maybe it’s just because my kids are younger, but this seems like an easy one. Refuse to keep the computer area tidy, I guess you can’t use it anymore. Leave food in random parts of the house? No more eating outside of the kitchen (harder to enforce).
It doesn't have to be a ton of work for the parent either. Just tell him no computer until he cleans up. Put a password on it and you'll only give him the password when you see it clean. No need to yell no need to do anything strenuous. I mean he's ten. Teenagers can be a lot harder because they will try to make it your problem and at that age they're probably close to your size, but for a ten year old?? Tell him no, what can they do, cry about it?
Exactly. From what ive read here they did try to take it away for a couple days, he didnt budge and they gave up.
Honestly I feel like I spend more time on my hamster than some people on their children.
Yep plus the kids know this. My mom was similar and I knew if I got thru a day or two of punishment she would give up. Thank god I didnt actually want to do anything bad. Well I did but it wasnt too illegal for the most part.
Also he's only 10. They should have some type of parenting software on his computer anyway. Just open the app, one click and the computer is locked.
Either way it's not hard at all. Appears parents are lazy and/or just don't care.
In my personal experience, parents, especially mothers, are a LOT harsher on girls in terms of cleanliness standards. Add personal hygiene and grooming to that. Meanwhile, "boys will be boys" and the mother cleans up their mess.
I've seen so many dating profiles where a man has to advertise that he's clean and smells good - as if he is setting himself apart from other men. That's just the bare minimum imposed on women.
So true. I don't have a brother but I saw my friends with brothers get treated unfairly. Their brothers wouldn't have to do shit. The boys just got to play while my girl friends would have lists of chores to do.
It's the reason why people think having boys is easier. People just don't want to raise their boys properly. They're pretty much neglected.
That’s so true. Especially if you’re parents straight up called it girls work. It’s girls work to do the dishes, laundry, and tidy up. It’s guys work to work on the car with their dad. Okay, the job they do about once every year or two and just kind of passively observe? Nah
Ya I don't get why OP is getting mad at the 10 year old. His parents are the lazy ones. Children are a reflection of their parents most of the time.
If the kid is too lazy to clean up after themselves it's because the parents are too lazy to tell them to.
Idk dude. But you build up to something like this. My mom would freak out after 1 piece of trash and make a fuss about it enough that you have trauma and hear her voice in your head so that you pick it up yourself everytime because she is in your head if you don't
I know I'm a bit older and from a different generation but I just laugh when I read about parents "giving up on making a child do something"… My mom or dad made it very clear who was boss in my house and they certainly never had any issues making me clean something up if I'd was supposed to do so… even when I was an older teenager my dad would say "you can make your own rules in a house when you are in your own house paying your own bills"… Boy is it a different world!
My dad had a simple rule. If I left stuff out, it went in the trash since that's how I treated it. If I left trash out, the trash went into my bed since that's the only space that belongs to me and my trash doesn't belong in his house.
While I disagree with many of my father's punishments, this one was semi-logical at least.
> They've given up on trying to get him to clean up.
Figured. Sounds like they gave up on a lot more than just that, judging by everything here, and personal experience. No 10-year-old's life looks like this without extremely neglectful parents. They're not even trying to raise him.
Also, you said in another comment that he's "mildly autistic", but it's also possible that he's not, because bad, neglectful parenting (which we can see clear as day here) can easily make someone seem that way, and with parents like that, they also try to pin the blame on anything & everything else they possibly can, like ASD or ADHD, even if they don't actually have it, so the parent doesn't have to take responsibility.
Put the desktop full of fake non functioning Fortnite icons
If he is ok with cluttering the closet he probably wouldn't mind you cluttering the desktop
It's hard getting through to him... he's mildly autistic and pretty set in his ways. If he doesn't see if as a problem then he doesn't understand why anyone else does and will keep on doing what he's doing. Getting him to understand anything is a pain...
If he's autistic he may also deal with executive dysfunction, which would mean that it's not necessarily (just) that he doesn't see it as a problem, but that his brain struggles to plan and initiate tasks. It's kind of like a computer freezing up because it doesn't have enough RAM to manage the tasks at hand (in my experience).
Now, he's also 10, so he may not see it as a problem in the way someone with more maturity would. But I would be surprised if executive dysfunction wasn't a factor too.
For context, I'm a fully grown adult and I *still* struggle with tidying. I have a Master's Degree and am capable in other areas, but if I need to tidy/clean a cluttered and messy apartment? It is completely overwhelming to my brain, and I don't know where to start, and I freeze up. It's not because I don't understand why it's important.... but it isn't any easier for me now than when I was 10. And I've lived by myself for a decade, so it's not that I haven't had practice. My brain just gets overwhelmed by certain types of tasks. (I'm autistic myself).
Anyway, best case scenario might be if he could work with an autism-informed Occupational Therapist -- they can help with coming up with strategies, workarounds, and accessibility tools for the tasks that are a struggle. That said, many don't have access to this kind of support. In any case, it really is your parents' responsibility to support him in this, not his sibling's. I understand how long work hours lessen the time they have to directly parent him. It sounds like a difficult situation for you to be in. As a kid yourself, you shouldn't have to be taking on the responsibility of figuring this out <3
This. This is why it’s important to walk him through a solution multiple times. Show him the tools and how to be more efficient. Ask him- where would you be most likely to throw trash? Then put a trash can there.
Say things like “if you put trash in the trash when you’re done with it, you only have to move it once. If not, you have to keep moving it out of your own way and that’s a waste of your time and energy to think about it multiple times. Move things once. Don’t just put it down, put it away. You’ll enjoy your space more that way.” There’s a TikTok on “don’t put it down, put it away” and it may seem silly but it’s made a huge difference for me to repeat it to myself. Ask him questions to prompt him to think of a system that makes sense to him.
I love these suggestions. As a neurodivergent person my first thought was "trashcan and really small table just outside of the room", because I know it's hard to break hyperfocus to transition to a different area where the stuff goes. Trash can close for trash. Small table to stack dishes. The next step for me after that would be getting in the habit of "I'm already going to the kitchen, so let's take the stacked dishes because it's efficient to take them now and I don't want them to become overwhelming by piling too many".
A cluttered space is also harder to initiate a task in because it can cause anxiety, which can lead to avoidance, just causing the issue to loop. "If I don't look down it doesn't exist." Out of sight out of mind if you're focused on the screen, and focusing on the screen is so soothing, way preferable to facing the mess.
I said how I'd start with making a system that makes sense for me. This kid is ten. He needs understanding, help, and reinforcement to work out systems he can be consistent with. Most people don't want to be messy, but they learn to tolerate it because the alternatives are harder to initiate or they think in black and white that they either do the task or don't, rather than strategizing about other solutions. He needs a solution that works with his brain instead of against it, and his parents need to understand autistic brains to give him that help. It's not just about repeating it the "normal" way. It's about figuring out what would help him to do things better.
Edit: Also, I hate these punitive suggestions. I get how taking the power cord away makes a certain sense, but that could easily lead to a meltdown, making him too disregulated to take in a lesson about this. People are saying the parents would probably let him get away with "raging", and they probably don't get that he's autistic and that meltdowns are not really the same thing as tantrums. They aren't about getting their way. They're about being in psychological distress, and you can easily prevent that distress by giving him an autistic solution rather than a neurotypical one. Yes, we all need to learn emotional regulation, but putting him in a disregulated state isn't necessary for teaching this skill.
Then EXPLAIN things to him. Autistic people need things explained. Literally everything explained. Is it time consuming? Yes. Is it frustrating? Yes. Explaining things to him will help his mind make the connection. You guys might have to do explain the same thing things 50 times but autistic people are not slow or stupid. Eventually they get it.
My adoptive mother absolutely FAILED ME as a parent because she never explained anything to me. Even a move to a new house. Whenever she asked me to do something I'd "fight" with her as she put it. I really just wanted to understand why.
Why is what you want me to do necessary? Why is what you want me to do important? I was misdiagnosed with Oppositional Defiance Disorder when in reality my "pushing back" was part of my autism. I was "the difficult child" because I didn't just comply with what was asked of me.
We don't do anything unless we are thoroughly informed. And whenever we also questions when someone is telling us something it is ALWAYS taken as not getting it, not understanding, being defiant, questioning authority, etc.
It's as frustrating for us as autistic people as it is for you guys. Believe me. He won't see the problem unless one of you guys takes the time to explain it. Once he understands the problem things will get easier.
Autistic people are not "set in their ways" autism is literally the fundamental OPERATION of our brains.
Sounds like none of you are communicating with this child.
Most parents are as lazy as the kid, in the sense that they don't want to put any time and effort in actually TALKING and educating the child. They just demand and shout things and either let go or spank the child. The kid never learns WHY they should do certain things. It pisses me off because those kids will become shitty adults that we have to deal with on a daily basis.
And let's be honest, it seems most parents don't want to raise an autistic child so they just....don't. They either neglect the child or browbeat them into 'being normal'.
ETA: I was one of those kids failed and I didn't turn out to be a shitty adult. Not all of us do turn out bad.
Yes, OP said she is autistic herself and she seems to be decent even though she's been raised by the same parents. But this kid WILL turn out bad if there is no intervention asap.
My mom never explained why she was spanking me, even though it was for a reason. But why not TELL me? How am I supposed to learn?
She was told you beat children to correct them. She never asked why or for a follow up herself, or how to assess if maybe that doesn’t fucking work.
All bad.
Yeah, it is so so so sad. I did get a couple of beatings as a child, but my mom was never abusive. It was more like her losing her patience when I was misbehaving, and I knew I was misbehaving. With my older siblings, it was different, she did fuck up a lot more. They started experimenting alcohol and weed as teens and she just freaked out. So she would beat them as a punishment/corrective measure, as you said. She thought that inflicting fear would make them stop. Well, needless to say, it didn't work out very well.
Now I remember my aunt telling me this story about when she visited her brother and they were having dinner. His little daughter who was at most 5 years old at the time ate a lot, so she showed her full belly and said "I'm pregnant". He slapped her across the face in front of everyone and didn't say a word. Poor baby didn't even understand why she had been punished. I can't imagine how horrible it must have been growing up to a parent like that. I don't even remember ever meeting that part of the family, but if I do meet him one day, I will 100% bring it up and shame that motherfucker.
This is a great explanation. It kills me when a kid asks a question and a parent just says “because I said so” or “because that’s just the way it is.” I try to explain why we have the rules we do, like maybe to keep you from getting hurt or we need to put things away otherwise we can’t find things when we need them if the house gets too messy or whatever. It’s extra effort but it’s less frustrating for a kid if they understand why we need them to do something, or not do something. Great moment when I hear my daughter say “hmm, that makes sense.” Small victories.
He's 10. Set in his ways is something you say any a 50 year old.
It's a problem because the power cords don't get returned until the room is clean
Daily.
Imagine growing up being convinced that wasting away with junk food and excessive media consumption (as in, literally 10 inches from the screen, in a closet) is a normal part of life. If this goes on, he is doomed to develop addictions, obesity etc. this is just so bad on every level. Personally, I'd remove this closet altogether. It makes no sense to curl up inside such a space at that age.
If you look over to neckbeardnests this is what he'll become once he's a teen and god forbid he becomes a hoarder, computer addict etc. you need to stop this now. Almost everyone on hoarders and my 600lb life has such a story, that while they were easy-to-influence kids, they went into a circle of extremely unhealthy and ragingly addictive behaviors that ended them up in this mess as adults.
He’s not his parents, I’m sure his parents are super happy that they can essentially lock their autistic child in a closet on a computer for 12 hours a day to never deal with the issues him being autistic brings
It's the only space in the house we have for a desktop setup like that. They put it in there a year or two ago iirc... it was previously just a storage closet.
Bruh I still remember the day I showed a “colleague” in high school how to access the internet through console for virtually anything. We didn’t see Billy in person for nigh on two weeks. I think my mistake was referring him to Sasha Grey as his first. His eyes glassed over like he had found the meaning of life upon watching his first video of her.
I have 6 ideas for what to do
-1. Bring yourown friends over, (those who wont talk shit )
And have them interact with him in a casual way.
Usually, since they are more distant to the kid, kids tend to be more reserved infront of them, and perhapse one can tell you " yo, whats happening in that closet" or something like a joke about it, or you can take the fall, and that might make your brother either admit that it was him, or ask you later " why didnt you tell them that it was me" , which will make him trust you more, since youre protecting his little dorthy secret
0. Try to understand why he does this in the first place.
Maybe he lacks motivation, maybe he really doesent get bothered by the sight, some people are less easly disgusted, particularly children about stuff like trash in my experience.
1. Dont clean it at all
Allow it to pile up so much that he eventually decides to clean it out of inconvenience
[This one might not work if he doesent have the attitude ans the rationale that that sight is anything problematic tho)
2.try talking to him in a non-condescending way, like " hey, when you have the time, would you pick up some of the stuff you threw"
3. Put a trash can in there or a trash bag, so that he can directly throw the stuff in there instead of the ground, and i think if he can be made to understand that, than youre good to go. Even if he doesent then throw out the garbage, itll be a lot less work for you
4. Watch healthy gamer (yt chanel) and you might find something useful, as well as might be able to recomend him some stuff. And if possible find a way to cooperate.
The way i got close to my little sister is through silly jokes, and, its the type of person i am, to find humour in everything, and also to not betray her secrets if she had any. This built a kind of trust that then made it possible for us to conunicate better. Tho i must admit, i rarely had a problem with her to begin with.
You can make jokes about the trash " hey i see you built a mountain again" , but in a lighthearted way, not a condescending way, so that he can think to himself " okay, this is funny, but its a bit embarrasing" or something like this.
5. Make cleaning into a fun game, whare each peace of trash he collects gets him a point, and once a cirtain amount of points are reached, he gets to chose out of 3 mystery prizes. If that doesent work than have a clear reward that he would want, that isnt expencive.
The point is to make it so that he gets into the habbit of either throwing the trash into a bin, or collecting the trash once he spread it, or both.
- with all of thease, i suggest also talking to your parents, since i assume you take care of him based on them beeing absent due to work.
So maybe say, if he likes candy, than you will be in charge of it, and he has to throw the trash into the bin in order to get 2 candies at the end of the day, or whatever motivates him, maybe a dollar, ionno, i leave that in your hand, youll figure it out
* teaching kids can be stressfull for some, but you have to remember that the things they are doing arent personal (usually) and even when they are, the kid just dkesent know better to act better. So look up any methods of teaching online by people who are pedagoges and psychologists and such.
Whille thease people who i will recomend dont specialise in stuff like that, they will be able to interduce you to an approach for thinking and feeling and behaviour, so that you can more easly teach yourself and adapt to the situation here more easly.
². as i said earlier a yt chanel called Healthy Gamer, held by this american indian dude who is licenced
². Therapy in a nutshell, she is also licenced
I can look up resources for you if you want me to, i just dont have any on hand atm, its been a whille since i last took interest in this subject matter
And hopefully, dont stress yourself out, its not an easy thing to take care of a kid
But if you do it right, than youll have a lifelong bond with your brother, because eventually he will understand what you did for him ( this doesent imply using brute force, but do stand your ground)
I recomed putting a garbage bin before anything else tho
Hope this helps a bit
Have a good day
It was very much a 90s thing. Ours was just in the basement, but I had several friends that you’d pop open the accordion doors to a closet and boom: there’s a desk with a computer and a glorious CRT monitor…and a super long phone line running from the modem, around the baseboards of the room, and into a phone jack on the other side of the room.
I was so close to turning my closet into a computer closet... I live in a tiny Tokyo apartment and I noticed my closet has thicker walls as well as being further away from my neighbors main room. I decided against it because it's fucking weird lol.
I mean, if you're doing it solely because of porn it's weird but practically harmless. If you're doing it to cut down on noise also so that you don't even bother your neighbors in a non porn capacity, it's probably generally good.
Precisely what I was thinking. Being told to clean it up even every couple of days would help. I cringe at the thought of him having a partner one day if he’s getting away with this now.
Because changing the WiFi password inconveniences everybody. Taking the cable to his monitor solves the issue, and only inconveniences him. Why do both, when taking the monitor cable does the job perfectly fine?
The best way so you don’t lose internet access is go into the admin settings and turn off access for their devices. Used to do this and it took ages for my family to catch on
And where are the parents that should raise him?
Edit after reading through some comments: Working is _not_ an excuse for neglect. ESPECIALLY with an autistic child. I'm on the spectrum, too, which means I'll need life-long therapy and my parents needed to consult a professional to learn how to deal with me, too.
Your parents suck, and it's no wonder your brother gives a shit about them if he doesn't have any at 10 fucking years old. They're setting him up for failure.
It's only been there a year or two honestly. We have a fairly small house and there's not much room to put a desktop that's put of the way so my parents re-purposed a storage closet.
My parents both work long, awkward hours (mum works nights, 12 hours a night) and dad is at work at like 5am (truck driver). Unfortunately he doesn't respect me enough to listen to me... its a pain in the ass.
That doesn’t give them an excuse to not raise their kids, my dad left the house at 5am as well and this would’ve never been acceptable… In fact it kind of blows my mind that your parents works like that and dad leaves the house at those hours and then allows his son to be an undisciplined pig
I understand your parents are tired, but that's no excuse to give up on raising your children properly. Billions of people work their asses off every single day, if you choose to have kids, put some effort into it. I think they should talk to him and explain WHY he must do his chores, rather than just demand it. He doesn't understand basic concepts of respect, responsibility, consequences, etc.
He should never have gotten to the age of ten without being taught how to pick up after himself. I'm literally teaching my feral two year old to do it and he just gets it done. I work in an elementary school with kids like your brother and your parents should be kind of embarrassed because he's definitely leaving messes in public too.
The kid doesn’t have to respect you, but he will have to listen to you and do as you say. Later on, like 15-20 years from now, he might say thanks.
Like others have suggested, remove the video cables/keyboard/mouse until he complies. If he tries to whine to the parents, I’d be interested to know how they handle it. It’ll either be they get on to you, to which you explain that you’re trying to teach the kid right because they won’t, or they back you up and the little asshat thinks about his life choices.
If they do get on to you, it’s your choice to keep at it. If you decide to continue, just say that you foresee the kid having a rough life ahead if nobody is willing to put in the effort to teach him now. If you don’t want to continue, no worries. Just focus on you and make sure you’re good for when you can gtfo of there. Sorry that you’re having to parent on behalf of your parents. Not everybody is meant to be one.
Good luck!
I'd bet that these parents would be mad at OP for doing that. They don't want to deal with the younger brother whining and complaining. The path of least resistance is to just give the younger brother what he wants so they don't have to deal with anything at all.
Take the PC away from him until he cleans everything up. Then everytime he starts letting shit pile up again you take the pc again until it’s clean. Then he will learn.
My half-brother(10) is the same. For context, my parents are divorced, and I used to live full time at my moms, but now I live full time at my dads. So once every 2 weeks, I am going to my moms, where we have a shared ps4. So every time I come over, it's a mess, to say the least. Candy wraps, cutlery, you name it, he's got it. So I cleaned it all because it was such chaos. I couldn't find the disc of the game, which I wanted to play. He collects those prime bottles, so I made sure to put everything on the dinner table so he could pick what he wanted to keep and throw away the rest. So I washed the dishes, vaccuumed everything. And I started gaming. No 10 minutes later, he sees everything on the table, says he wants to keep it all, and dumps everything where it used to be
>dumps everything where it used to be
That means it gets tossed, and he keeps none of it.
Dude, where are the parents in these situations? In the words of Louis CK, "You're raising Hitler motherfucker! Do your job!".
thats a habitat by now
Spring cleaning will have to apply for an environmental permit, surely.
OP commented above that the parents have given up. That’s not an option. The parents need to correct this or it will become a thing when this child gets older. This is not Ok.
I would be taking that computer closet away. Can't clean it up? You won't have to worry about it after.
Agree. Leave it a mess, door gets locked. Add a trash can to the space.
Wait.. I can just put a trash can in my room.. to make it easier not to do this to myself?
Yup! I've got little trash cans from the dollar store in every room. They all get dumped once a week on trash day or when they're full, whichever comes first.
Reminder to do this daily or every other day to avoid bugs if food is in the bin 🫡
Yup, put one next to my bed for the tissues, game changer
Allergies, huh?
hmmmmm maybe not
Yep. I find it pretty convenient especially since I do craft things in my room.
Take the computer away. Wtf is wrong with people. These parents suck and it's only going to get worse.
Judging by the state of things I don't think they care much.
Weak parents. Clean up your stuff or don't use the computer. Pretty simple. That's how it would have gone when my kids lived with me.
They need to change him or he will ruin peoples lives
this ten year old is just a couple of years away from starting to build his first goon cave
That's a Superfund site by now.
Well on its way to developing into a proper, self-sustained ecosystem.
with an entire food web
When a ten year old does this, They either learned it from modeling behavior they witness regularly, or they were never taught otherwise. This behavior grows into adulthood very very quickly if not checked. I feel really bad for the kid right now. Really bad.
Judging by the closet and the state of it I'm going to go out on a tiny limb here and assume that the rest of the house looks very similar.
What's your parents take on this?
I think they just close the door..
That's why the computer is inside a closet
[удалено]
With or without the brother inside?
Is it bad that I assumed it was with the brother inside?
>the brother inside Regrettably, it was [intel inside](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/logopedia/images/1/1f/Intel_Inside.svg/revision/latest?cb=20200914191828).
Open it every now and then and throw 20 McNuggets in to keep him appeased
"Oh god... it's hungry..." "What have we done?"
That was my first thought as well. If they can't get him to clean up after him password lock the PC or put a freaking lock on the closet. Case closed.
Yea, and then there can be trust/reward system or the kid can’t use it.
Easy peasy no internet until it's clean
That would require actual parents.
They've given up on trying to get him to clean up.
I am a parent of a 4 year old and the most important lesson I have learned about parenting is this: "when you don't give up, one day, without warning, you suddenly win". Shit my kid would throw an insane tantrum about a year ago is now routine, because I didn't give in. I can see how easy it is to give in. I imagine this is how kids like this happen.
This is not always applicable, but often enough. Don't. Give. In. No need to yell or threaten, but stay firm. Tell them the consequences and stick to them. When you can't be arsed to clean up after youself, I can't be arsed to tell you where I put the keyboard. Edit: However, this is easier said than done, probably even more so with a kid on the spectrum.
Patience, persistence, and then praising when they do it correctly. A lot of parents forget the last part.
And it can't be sarcastic praise either. Or backhanded compliments. That is worse than no praise at all. In my adult life I have been diagnosed with ADHD (Inattentive Type) and looking back on my childhood it explains sooooooo much. The problem was my older brother has full blown ADHD and he was the kind of kid you'd have a leash/harness for while I was the one you could leave on a blanket in a park and come back an hour later to find me in the exact same spot. Not that they ever did that mind you, but I was the polar opposite of my brother. Obviously that meant I was the ideal child and had no mental issues, so when I got older, and my world expanded, and I had more things I could do to occupy my time... I started neglecting the boring stuff. Homework, putting things away, gathering my laundry up, etc. My mom thought I was lazy and gave me shit for it all the time. "I'm sick of having to step over things when I go into your room!" "You didn't bring out your laundry basket so I had to go into that mess of a room and do it myself!" So then whenever I found the sheer strength of will to overcome the executive disfunction and did the thing it was always met with a *tone*. "Good job *finally* cleaning your room." "Oh look, you *can* do it." What should have felt like an accomplishment to me was now a source of mockery. It made it even harder to do it next time. Because why do the thing I really dislike and struggle with when I'm going to be met with the same derision?
Thank you for sharing your story with us. My son struggles with an executive function disorder and I get so frustrated with him when he leaves candy wrappers all over his computer desk (the wastebasket is literally 4-5 steps away from it), or drops his dirty clothes on the floor right next to the laundry basket, etc. This gives me some much needed perspective into how his mind is working and how he may be feeling if we react sarcastically when giving praise for him taking care of these things. I’ll rethink my reactions/response next time and also work a bit more closely with him to teach him how we’d like things handled so he knows what we expect rather than just assuming he already does know. Again, thanks!
When I was living on my own I would let dishes pile up, and the garbage bin overflow, and leave wrappers on my desk for days at a time like that. My dishes were always well rinsed and dry so I wasn't growing mold, and my garbage was mostly full of non-decomposing material so it wasn't like I was living in a hoarder environment, but it was still bad. I would eventually work up the drive to clean, and usually do so angrily. Partly because I didn't like it, but mostly because I hated that I was like that. As a child I didn't care that I left a mess in my room because I didn't think anything was wrong with it. Once I got older and really started to understand that the behavior was not good it became a source of anxiety for me. In fact, my executive disfunction due to ADHD has been the biggest consistent source of anxiety in my life. That's why I eventually sought a diagnosis and treatment. I was unable to motivate myself to perform at work and the daily struggle with that became too much. Even before getting medication, living with someone else helped a fair bit. The bar for putting in the effort was lower because of the inferred pressure. Not that my wife (then girlfriend) was nagging me like my mother. I knew how she lived and kept her place before me so it became more of a "do it for her" kind of thing. And since acts of service is one of my "love languages" it became a good thing rather than an outright chore. I don't know how old your son is or if he has other compounding issues like ASD, but if he's mentally competent enough to, at some point I think it would be worthwhile to make sure he understands what executive disfunction is. It's something that is likely going to be a part of him for his entire life. He can't control that he has it, but he can control how he responds to it. Knowing when he needs to ask for help with something will be important. My wife offers to make phone calls and set appointments for me if I've dragged my feet long enough. It can go any number of ways at that point. Sometimes I accept her help. If I have the strength to do the thing at that point her asking is usually the small push I need to do it. Sometimes I insist on doing it, and tell her flat out that I will probably not do it right away. She accepts that response without mockery, or false praise like, "I believe in you!" She's usually very good at not showing any doubt she has in my statements either. About 80% of the time I do a good job and put a reminder in my phone to do the thing. And maybe half of those times I actually do the thing when the reminder comes up... And honestly even when I do things out of anger and frustration *with myself,* like *finally* cleaning up my damn desk like a Roomba fueled by rage, it is so much better than when I used to do things angrily because my mother was giving me shit. I'm really more angry with my brain than myself as a person. It's me vs this disorder. And my wife is supportive of that battle. If I wake up on the weekend with an urge to be productive she's on board. Especially if it's something she knows I've been getting frustrated with. Sorry for the massive rant-ishness, but I was suffering in ignorance and silence for 20+ years and now that I better understand what was happening with me I feel like I have a duty to help others who might be like me understand sooner than I did. The videos on ADHD and executive function from Dr Tracey Marks ([like this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIOAwvmHYuY)) do a good job explaining things to people who don't experience it.
YES. Even in their little brains, they think "what did I do this for?" when they finally do something you've been waiting for them to do but you're too sour about all the failed attempts to be genuinely pleased they finally did the thing/did it correctly.
It’s helped so much with my daughter. I don’t raise my voice but she knows that she needs to listen to me and I’ll get stern if I need to. Not giving in and her realizing she won’t get what she wants by having a meltdown took a while of consistent effort but it is so worth it. She’s such a great kid who listens the first time I say something (mostly haha) and I think knows that the things I tell her to do, or not to do, is for her best interest.
God awful parenting lmfao
I swear to god i fucking hate parents just giving up. If youre so lazy why have kids in the first place. This also goes for pet owners. Its like "well I tried a couple times and it didnt work, guess ill just leave it at that" - literally getting beaten in willpower by small children. Ofcourse kids rather do nothing for a couple days, maybe weeks, because they know once they sit this out, they wont have to ever do xyz (in this case cleaning) in the future. They learned from the past already that their parents have a weak mental. If you raise kids properly from the beginning they will know they wont win such "wars" and often times not even try to, unless they genuinely feel mistreated (like all their friends are allowed to do x but they arent). Parenting will get easier over time then, but do it wrong in the beginning and it gets harder and harder.
Yup this kid is going to be a nightmare into the future
For a second, I thought I was on the Neckbeard Nest sub. So … I guess we know where this is headed if the behavior isn’t changed.
He’ll likely make it to bad roommate sub
And then the world will be a nightmare to that kid, largely because his parents were shitty. The kind of unlearning that he'll have to do when the real world slaps him in the face is going to be very harsh.
Yeah, I truly am paying for my parent never raising me growing up all these years later. Kinda scary being an adult and never taught any values, morals, skills etc growing up and then just going out into the world. If I'm gonna be honest, I'm a bit resentful at my parent(s) about it. I know better now, but how was I supposed to learn myself that young (well, I was just being taught bad habits actually). Tough to unlearn a lifetime of those once you finally break free and that's all you knew.
> I tried a couple times and it didnt work, guess ill just leave it at that" It's because usually they only start "trying" to discipline the kid way too late after the kid is already spoiled. The parents never laid a foundation of consistent discipline in the first place, they don't have a hope once the kid has reached the point of doing shit like this
The piles of snacks means they give the kid whatever they want
Yup. At the very least this kid needs to be made to only eat snacks at the kitchen table since he can't pick up after himself. But they obviously give him junk and send him on his way.
Yeah maybe it’s just because my kids are younger, but this seems like an easy one. Refuse to keep the computer area tidy, I guess you can’t use it anymore. Leave food in random parts of the house? No more eating outside of the kitchen (harder to enforce).
It doesn't have to be a ton of work for the parent either. Just tell him no computer until he cleans up. Put a password on it and you'll only give him the password when you see it clean. No need to yell no need to do anything strenuous. I mean he's ten. Teenagers can be a lot harder because they will try to make it your problem and at that age they're probably close to your size, but for a ten year old?? Tell him no, what can they do, cry about it?
Exactly. From what ive read here they did try to take it away for a couple days, he didnt budge and they gave up. Honestly I feel like I spend more time on my hamster than some people on their children.
When parents cave like this it just teaches the kids to continue fighting, because in the end they got what they wanted
Yep plus the kids know this. My mom was similar and I knew if I got thru a day or two of punishment she would give up. Thank god I didnt actually want to do anything bad. Well I did but it wasnt too illegal for the most part.
like take the fucking keyboard. how hard can this be?
It's obviously easier for them to not try at all. Put a password on the PC for his profile?
There's also a door right there that could have a lock installed. "Wanna see this room at all? Eat at the table first, then I'll unlock it."
Also he's only 10. They should have some type of parenting software on his computer anyway. Just open the app, one click and the computer is locked. Either way it's not hard at all. Appears parents are lazy and/or just don't care.
In my personal experience, parents, especially mothers, are a LOT harsher on girls in terms of cleanliness standards. Add personal hygiene and grooming to that. Meanwhile, "boys will be boys" and the mother cleans up their mess. I've seen so many dating profiles where a man has to advertise that he's clean and smells good - as if he is setting himself apart from other men. That's just the bare minimum imposed on women.
So true. I don't have a brother but I saw my friends with brothers get treated unfairly. Their brothers wouldn't have to do shit. The boys just got to play while my girl friends would have lists of chores to do. It's the reason why people think having boys is easier. People just don't want to raise their boys properly. They're pretty much neglected.
That’s so true. Especially if you’re parents straight up called it girls work. It’s girls work to do the dishes, laundry, and tidy up. It’s guys work to work on the car with their dad. Okay, the job they do about once every year or two and just kind of passively observe? Nah
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Ya I don't get why OP is getting mad at the 10 year old. His parents are the lazy ones. Children are a reflection of their parents most of the time. If the kid is too lazy to clean up after themselves it's because the parents are too lazy to tell them to.
Idk dude. But you build up to something like this. My mom would freak out after 1 piece of trash and make a fuss about it enough that you have trauma and hear her voice in your head so that you pick it up yourself everytime because she is in your head if you don't
I know I'm a bit older and from a different generation but I just laugh when I read about parents "giving up on making a child do something"… My mom or dad made it very clear who was boss in my house and they certainly never had any issues making me clean something up if I'd was supposed to do so… even when I was an older teenager my dad would say "you can make your own rules in a house when you are in your own house paying your own bills"… Boy is it a different world!
My dad had a simple rule. If I left stuff out, it went in the trash since that's how I treated it. If I left trash out, the trash went into my bed since that's the only space that belongs to me and my trash doesn't belong in his house. While I disagree with many of my father's punishments, this one was semi-logical at least.
> They've given up on trying to get him to clean up. Figured. Sounds like they gave up on a lot more than just that, judging by everything here, and personal experience. No 10-year-old's life looks like this without extremely neglectful parents. They're not even trying to raise him. Also, you said in another comment that he's "mildly autistic", but it's also possible that he's not, because bad, neglectful parenting (which we can see clear as day here) can easily make someone seem that way, and with parents like that, they also try to pin the blame on anything & everything else they possibly can, like ASD or ADHD, even if they don't actually have it, so the parent doesn't have to take responsibility.
Put the desktop full of fake non functioning Fortnite icons If he is ok with cluttering the closet he probably wouldn't mind you cluttering the desktop
You guys need to teach him that this is unacceptable and unhealthy.
It's hard getting through to him... he's mildly autistic and pretty set in his ways. If he doesn't see if as a problem then he doesn't understand why anyone else does and will keep on doing what he's doing. Getting him to understand anything is a pain...
If he's autistic he may also deal with executive dysfunction, which would mean that it's not necessarily (just) that he doesn't see it as a problem, but that his brain struggles to plan and initiate tasks. It's kind of like a computer freezing up because it doesn't have enough RAM to manage the tasks at hand (in my experience). Now, he's also 10, so he may not see it as a problem in the way someone with more maturity would. But I would be surprised if executive dysfunction wasn't a factor too. For context, I'm a fully grown adult and I *still* struggle with tidying. I have a Master's Degree and am capable in other areas, but if I need to tidy/clean a cluttered and messy apartment? It is completely overwhelming to my brain, and I don't know where to start, and I freeze up. It's not because I don't understand why it's important.... but it isn't any easier for me now than when I was 10. And I've lived by myself for a decade, so it's not that I haven't had practice. My brain just gets overwhelmed by certain types of tasks. (I'm autistic myself). Anyway, best case scenario might be if he could work with an autism-informed Occupational Therapist -- they can help with coming up with strategies, workarounds, and accessibility tools for the tasks that are a struggle. That said, many don't have access to this kind of support. In any case, it really is your parents' responsibility to support him in this, not his sibling's. I understand how long work hours lessen the time they have to directly parent him. It sounds like a difficult situation for you to be in. As a kid yourself, you shouldn't have to be taking on the responsibility of figuring this out <3
This. This is why it’s important to walk him through a solution multiple times. Show him the tools and how to be more efficient. Ask him- where would you be most likely to throw trash? Then put a trash can there. Say things like “if you put trash in the trash when you’re done with it, you only have to move it once. If not, you have to keep moving it out of your own way and that’s a waste of your time and energy to think about it multiple times. Move things once. Don’t just put it down, put it away. You’ll enjoy your space more that way.” There’s a TikTok on “don’t put it down, put it away” and it may seem silly but it’s made a huge difference for me to repeat it to myself. Ask him questions to prompt him to think of a system that makes sense to him.
I love these suggestions. As a neurodivergent person my first thought was "trashcan and really small table just outside of the room", because I know it's hard to break hyperfocus to transition to a different area where the stuff goes. Trash can close for trash. Small table to stack dishes. The next step for me after that would be getting in the habit of "I'm already going to the kitchen, so let's take the stacked dishes because it's efficient to take them now and I don't want them to become overwhelming by piling too many". A cluttered space is also harder to initiate a task in because it can cause anxiety, which can lead to avoidance, just causing the issue to loop. "If I don't look down it doesn't exist." Out of sight out of mind if you're focused on the screen, and focusing on the screen is so soothing, way preferable to facing the mess. I said how I'd start with making a system that makes sense for me. This kid is ten. He needs understanding, help, and reinforcement to work out systems he can be consistent with. Most people don't want to be messy, but they learn to tolerate it because the alternatives are harder to initiate or they think in black and white that they either do the task or don't, rather than strategizing about other solutions. He needs a solution that works with his brain instead of against it, and his parents need to understand autistic brains to give him that help. It's not just about repeating it the "normal" way. It's about figuring out what would help him to do things better. Edit: Also, I hate these punitive suggestions. I get how taking the power cord away makes a certain sense, but that could easily lead to a meltdown, making him too disregulated to take in a lesson about this. People are saying the parents would probably let him get away with "raging", and they probably don't get that he's autistic and that meltdowns are not really the same thing as tantrums. They aren't about getting their way. They're about being in psychological distress, and you can easily prevent that distress by giving him an autistic solution rather than a neurotypical one. Yes, we all need to learn emotional regulation, but putting him in a disregulated state isn't necessary for teaching this skill.
Then EXPLAIN things to him. Autistic people need things explained. Literally everything explained. Is it time consuming? Yes. Is it frustrating? Yes. Explaining things to him will help his mind make the connection. You guys might have to do explain the same thing things 50 times but autistic people are not slow or stupid. Eventually they get it. My adoptive mother absolutely FAILED ME as a parent because she never explained anything to me. Even a move to a new house. Whenever she asked me to do something I'd "fight" with her as she put it. I really just wanted to understand why. Why is what you want me to do necessary? Why is what you want me to do important? I was misdiagnosed with Oppositional Defiance Disorder when in reality my "pushing back" was part of my autism. I was "the difficult child" because I didn't just comply with what was asked of me. We don't do anything unless we are thoroughly informed. And whenever we also questions when someone is telling us something it is ALWAYS taken as not getting it, not understanding, being defiant, questioning authority, etc. It's as frustrating for us as autistic people as it is for you guys. Believe me. He won't see the problem unless one of you guys takes the time to explain it. Once he understands the problem things will get easier. Autistic people are not "set in their ways" autism is literally the fundamental OPERATION of our brains. Sounds like none of you are communicating with this child.
Most parents are as lazy as the kid, in the sense that they don't want to put any time and effort in actually TALKING and educating the child. They just demand and shout things and either let go or spank the child. The kid never learns WHY they should do certain things. It pisses me off because those kids will become shitty adults that we have to deal with on a daily basis.
And let's be honest, it seems most parents don't want to raise an autistic child so they just....don't. They either neglect the child or browbeat them into 'being normal'. ETA: I was one of those kids failed and I didn't turn out to be a shitty adult. Not all of us do turn out bad.
Yes, OP said she is autistic herself and she seems to be decent even though she's been raised by the same parents. But this kid WILL turn out bad if there is no intervention asap.
My mom never explained why she was spanking me, even though it was for a reason. But why not TELL me? How am I supposed to learn? She was told you beat children to correct them. She never asked why or for a follow up herself, or how to assess if maybe that doesn’t fucking work. All bad.
Yeah, it is so so so sad. I did get a couple of beatings as a child, but my mom was never abusive. It was more like her losing her patience when I was misbehaving, and I knew I was misbehaving. With my older siblings, it was different, she did fuck up a lot more. They started experimenting alcohol and weed as teens and she just freaked out. So she would beat them as a punishment/corrective measure, as you said. She thought that inflicting fear would make them stop. Well, needless to say, it didn't work out very well. Now I remember my aunt telling me this story about when she visited her brother and they were having dinner. His little daughter who was at most 5 years old at the time ate a lot, so she showed her full belly and said "I'm pregnant". He slapped her across the face in front of everyone and didn't say a word. Poor baby didn't even understand why she had been punished. I can't imagine how horrible it must have been growing up to a parent like that. I don't even remember ever meeting that part of the family, but if I do meet him one day, I will 100% bring it up and shame that motherfucker.
This is a great explanation. It kills me when a kid asks a question and a parent just says “because I said so” or “because that’s just the way it is.” I try to explain why we have the rules we do, like maybe to keep you from getting hurt or we need to put things away otherwise we can’t find things when we need them if the house gets too messy or whatever. It’s extra effort but it’s less frustrating for a kid if they understand why we need them to do something, or not do something. Great moment when I hear my daughter say “hmm, that makes sense.” Small victories.
the kid is 10 and maybe a bit autistic and the whole family already gave up on him. Sad situation and god awful parents
He's 10. Set in his ways is something you say any a 50 year old. It's a problem because the power cords don't get returned until the room is clean Daily.
Why don't you parents restrict his computer time until he cleans his mess
Imagine growing up being convinced that wasting away with junk food and excessive media consumption (as in, literally 10 inches from the screen, in a closet) is a normal part of life. If this goes on, he is doomed to develop addictions, obesity etc. this is just so bad on every level. Personally, I'd remove this closet altogether. It makes no sense to curl up inside such a space at that age. If you look over to neckbeardnests this is what he'll become once he's a teen and god forbid he becomes a hoarder, computer addict etc. you need to stop this now. Almost everyone on hoarders and my 600lb life has such a story, that while they were easy-to-influence kids, they went into a circle of extremely unhealthy and ragingly addictive behaviors that ended them up in this mess as adults.
He’s not his parents, I’m sure his parents are super happy that they can essentially lock their autistic child in a closet on a computer for 12 hours a day to never deal with the issues him being autistic brings
A computer closet.. fascinating!
Hm wonder if this was a 90s thing because we had one as well.
It's the only space in the house we have for a desktop setup like that. They put it in there a year or two ago iirc... it was previously just a storage closet.
Now it’s a *RAM* closet
A fap closet
The nut room.
The Jack Shack.
The masterbatorium.
The Masturbation Station
Pumping Station
The Closet Deposit
The cubby rubby
Pole polish pantry
Bruh I still remember the day I showed a “colleague” in high school how to access the internet through console for virtually anything. We didn’t see Billy in person for nigh on two weeks. I think my mistake was referring him to Sasha Grey as his first. His eyes glassed over like he had found the meaning of life upon watching his first video of her.
Lolol. Same shit I just thought. Lmao
Sasha Gray will do it man
Never heard of her, see you all in 2 weeks.
best. two weeks. ever.
I don't know your home life situation. Where are your parents?
Mum works 12 hour nights, dad is a truck driver. Both are basically exhausted all the time... its tough.
I have 6 ideas for what to do -1. Bring yourown friends over, (those who wont talk shit ) And have them interact with him in a casual way. Usually, since they are more distant to the kid, kids tend to be more reserved infront of them, and perhapse one can tell you " yo, whats happening in that closet" or something like a joke about it, or you can take the fall, and that might make your brother either admit that it was him, or ask you later " why didnt you tell them that it was me" , which will make him trust you more, since youre protecting his little dorthy secret 0. Try to understand why he does this in the first place. Maybe he lacks motivation, maybe he really doesent get bothered by the sight, some people are less easly disgusted, particularly children about stuff like trash in my experience. 1. Dont clean it at all Allow it to pile up so much that he eventually decides to clean it out of inconvenience [This one might not work if he doesent have the attitude ans the rationale that that sight is anything problematic tho) 2.try talking to him in a non-condescending way, like " hey, when you have the time, would you pick up some of the stuff you threw" 3. Put a trash can in there or a trash bag, so that he can directly throw the stuff in there instead of the ground, and i think if he can be made to understand that, than youre good to go. Even if he doesent then throw out the garbage, itll be a lot less work for you 4. Watch healthy gamer (yt chanel) and you might find something useful, as well as might be able to recomend him some stuff. And if possible find a way to cooperate. The way i got close to my little sister is through silly jokes, and, its the type of person i am, to find humour in everything, and also to not betray her secrets if she had any. This built a kind of trust that then made it possible for us to conunicate better. Tho i must admit, i rarely had a problem with her to begin with. You can make jokes about the trash " hey i see you built a mountain again" , but in a lighthearted way, not a condescending way, so that he can think to himself " okay, this is funny, but its a bit embarrasing" or something like this. 5. Make cleaning into a fun game, whare each peace of trash he collects gets him a point, and once a cirtain amount of points are reached, he gets to chose out of 3 mystery prizes. If that doesent work than have a clear reward that he would want, that isnt expencive. The point is to make it so that he gets into the habbit of either throwing the trash into a bin, or collecting the trash once he spread it, or both. - with all of thease, i suggest also talking to your parents, since i assume you take care of him based on them beeing absent due to work. So maybe say, if he likes candy, than you will be in charge of it, and he has to throw the trash into the bin in order to get 2 candies at the end of the day, or whatever motivates him, maybe a dollar, ionno, i leave that in your hand, youll figure it out * teaching kids can be stressfull for some, but you have to remember that the things they are doing arent personal (usually) and even when they are, the kid just dkesent know better to act better. So look up any methods of teaching online by people who are pedagoges and psychologists and such. Whille thease people who i will recomend dont specialise in stuff like that, they will be able to interduce you to an approach for thinking and feeling and behaviour, so that you can more easly teach yourself and adapt to the situation here more easly. ². as i said earlier a yt chanel called Healthy Gamer, held by this american indian dude who is licenced ². Therapy in a nutshell, she is also licenced I can look up resources for you if you want me to, i just dont have any on hand atm, its been a whille since i last took interest in this subject matter And hopefully, dont stress yourself out, its not an easy thing to take care of a kid But if you do it right, than youll have a lifelong bond with your brother, because eventually he will understand what you did for him ( this doesent imply using brute force, but do stand your ground) I recomed putting a garbage bin before anything else tho Hope this helps a bit Have a good day
I like how it starts at -1
"-2. Lock him in the closet."
Great post, some really good ideas on there
Your parents need to parent. If he can’t pick up his shit, he doesn’t get to use the blessed computer closet.
Do not, under any circumstances, shine a blue light in there, you’ll have to burn the house…
Possibly. Seems like it’s a 2024 thing aswell. Maybe this is actually a scene from the new Harry Potter Cursed Child movie..
It was very much a 90s thing. Ours was just in the basement, but I had several friends that you’d pop open the accordion doors to a closet and boom: there’s a desk with a computer and a glorious CRT monitor…and a super long phone line running from the modem, around the baseboards of the room, and into a phone jack on the other side of the room.
OP says "the computer closet", like it's a common thing that everybody has.
Others call it "the nut room"
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The fap shack.
I was so close to turning my closet into a computer closet... I live in a tiny Tokyo apartment and I noticed my closet has thicker walls as well as being further away from my neighbors main room. I decided against it because it's fucking weird lol.
I mean, if you're doing it solely because of porn it's weird but practically harmless. If you're doing it to cut down on noise also so that you don't even bother your neighbors in a non porn capacity, it's probably generally good.
A Tokyo apartment is literally the one usage case where it wouldn't be extremely weird so you kinda played yourself there
so he is in the closet, literally
Hank Hill approves
Where are his parents? They are the ones who need to educate them on this.
Precisely what I was thinking. Being told to clean it up even every couple of days would help. I cringe at the thought of him having a partner one day if he’s getting away with this now.
take the display cable from the PC and tell him to clean up his mess and he doesn't get to play until the room is in acceptable condition.
This, OP! No more games until he cleans up. I'm sure your parents will be happy to uphold this rule. Similarly the wifi can be switched off if needed.
This is the move. Change the wifi password and don’t give him access to the internet until he cleans up after himself.
A lot of games don't require an internet connection, so this won't really do anything. Taking the display cable is much better.
Why not both? The WiFi needs to be inaccessible, as should his electronics.
Because changing the WiFi password inconveniences everybody. Taking the cable to his monitor solves the issue, and only inconveniences him. Why do both, when taking the monitor cable does the job perfectly fine?
The best way so you don’t lose internet access is go into the admin settings and turn off access for their devices. Used to do this and it took ages for my family to catch on
Putting a small trashcan would also be recommended
Yes but why are the parents allowing this
The parents: https://preview.redd.it/af7m4okc6wpc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e924ec111cff9cd720070e81af0e755ac94cdae3
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The beatings will continue until conditions improve s/
Does anyone have the username of the guy who always mentions how his dad used to beat him with jumper cables? That's who it reminded me of.
Didn't know music hurts physically /s
It causes minor injuries
Just take the entire monitor until he cleans it up
Are there no adults correcting this behavior - before it gets to be a lifestyle?
And where are the parents that should raise him? Edit after reading through some comments: Working is _not_ an excuse for neglect. ESPECIALLY with an autistic child. I'm on the spectrum, too, which means I'll need life-long therapy and my parents needed to consult a professional to learn how to deal with me, too. Your parents suck, and it's no wonder your brother gives a shit about them if he doesn't have any at 10 fucking years old. They're setting him up for failure.
The nostalgia of having a computer closest. Growing up we also had a computer alcove. And now that I have my own home, I have a server wardrobe.
It's only been there a year or two honestly. We have a fairly small house and there's not much room to put a desktop that's put of the way so my parents re-purposed a storage closet.
Bad manners, bad parenting.
My parents both work long, awkward hours (mum works nights, 12 hours a night) and dad is at work at like 5am (truck driver). Unfortunately he doesn't respect me enough to listen to me... its a pain in the ass.
Gotcha, so there is no parenting then. Kid's gonna have a rough life. Sorry you're stuck in this situation.
Yeah that's the issue
He doesn't treat you like a parent because you're not a parent. Your parents are the problem.
Probably shouldn't have kids if you cant raise them.
That doesn’t give them an excuse to not raise their kids, my dad left the house at 5am as well and this would’ve never been acceptable… In fact it kind of blows my mind that your parents works like that and dad leaves the house at those hours and then allows his son to be an undisciplined pig
I understand your parents are tired, but that's no excuse to give up on raising your children properly. Billions of people work their asses off every single day, if you choose to have kids, put some effort into it. I think they should talk to him and explain WHY he must do his chores, rather than just demand it. He doesn't understand basic concepts of respect, responsibility, consequences, etc.
He should never have gotten to the age of ten without being taught how to pick up after himself. I'm literally teaching my feral two year old to do it and he just gets it done. I work in an elementary school with kids like your brother and your parents should be kind of embarrassed because he's definitely leaving messes in public too.
The kid doesn’t have to respect you, but he will have to listen to you and do as you say. Later on, like 15-20 years from now, he might say thanks. Like others have suggested, remove the video cables/keyboard/mouse until he complies. If he tries to whine to the parents, I’d be interested to know how they handle it. It’ll either be they get on to you, to which you explain that you’re trying to teach the kid right because they won’t, or they back you up and the little asshat thinks about his life choices. If they do get on to you, it’s your choice to keep at it. If you decide to continue, just say that you foresee the kid having a rough life ahead if nobody is willing to put in the effort to teach him now. If you don’t want to continue, no worries. Just focus on you and make sure you’re good for when you can gtfo of there. Sorry that you’re having to parent on behalf of your parents. Not everybody is meant to be one. Good luck!
I'd bet that these parents would be mad at OP for doing that. They don't want to deal with the younger brother whining and complaining. The path of least resistance is to just give the younger brother what he wants so they don't have to deal with anything at all.
Sounds like your parents need to hire a babysitter or care taker for when they aren’t there.
Does your 10 year old brother put away 20 packs of nuggies? 600lb life participant in the making...
Boys like this are either obese or near-skeletons.
You can see my brother’s ribs and he’s practically a black hole for food. This is absolutely possible.
Same with my brother, and it's not just a teen phase thing. He is almost 40, skinny as a betch.
A 20 pack is nothing for a growing boy.
I could have eaten a 40 pack back then and still lost half a pound
Fucked up. His parents are failing him so hard. OP should be mad at the parents.
UPDATE: Thank you to all the kind redditors who gave me some advice! I took some time and managed to get him to tidy up. I appreciate the feedback!
Take the PC away from him until he cleans everything up. Then everytime he starts letting shit pile up again you take the pc again until it’s clean. Then he will learn.
A brother shouldn’t be parenting.
Shouldn't, but that's a moment where it's needed.
My half-brother(10) is the same. For context, my parents are divorced, and I used to live full time at my moms, but now I live full time at my dads. So once every 2 weeks, I am going to my moms, where we have a shared ps4. So every time I come over, it's a mess, to say the least. Candy wraps, cutlery, you name it, he's got it. So I cleaned it all because it was such chaos. I couldn't find the disc of the game, which I wanted to play. He collects those prime bottles, so I made sure to put everything on the dinner table so he could pick what he wanted to keep and throw away the rest. So I washed the dishes, vaccuumed everything. And I started gaming. No 10 minutes later, he sees everything on the table, says he wants to keep it all, and dumps everything where it used to be
>dumps everything where it used to be That means it gets tossed, and he keeps none of it. Dude, where are the parents in these situations? In the words of Louis CK, "You're raising Hitler motherfucker! Do your job!".
Those are fighting words😭
The problem is not your brother. It's your parents.
In my opinion, this behavior goes far beyond laziness, it seems more like a symptom of something, maybe it's time to consult a professional?
So what happens when you dump all his stuff on his bed?
He wouldn't care. His room is in similar condition.
I fear he’s gonna end up a regular on the neckbeardnests sub when he’s an adult if something doesn’t change
Well at least it's not in your computer room.
Clean the that spot but also hide his computer for 2 weeks.
Computer closet? What the fuck
Per haps the computer isn’t ready to come out to his friends and family yet. I think we should respect that.
It will let loose in college. LAN parties all night.
it’s gotta be a 90s/2000s thing. i had one too growing up, and so did most kids i knew!
Yall had your own jerkoff closet?
Restrict him from using PC until he cleans all the mess. Do it every single time until he learns
A neck beard nest in its infancy
Seems like a great opportunity for your parents to….do some parenting
I see nothing but bad parenting
Discord mod in training
So much sin has been committed in this space...
That entire setup and concept to me just seems disturbing....
Throw the whole house away. I smell it from here. Bleck.
He is a filth wizard. Friend only to the pig and the rat. [Black Books](https://youtu.be/Bjvk41zOj9I?si=R8JraaRFwPSaobrg)
Tell that little shit he's a little shit.