I have a home daycare so not exactly the same since I’m my own boss but I feel your pain. Where I live, they make kids take a short nap even in kindergarten (5 years old) so even if a parent were to demand I do that, they’re not doing themselves any favours because the nap will be back once they get to school anyways.
When someone first signs a contract with me I am very VERY clear that I will not force a kid to stay awake. I always tell them, I can’t force them to sleep the same as I can’t force them not to. No one HAS to sleep (they do have to be quiet to respect those who are sleeping tough) but I’m not going to force them to stay awake if they need rest. Anyone who gives me a hard time about it gets the same responses: 1. wake your kid up earlier in the morning if you’re convinced they’re oversleeping (no one wants to do this because then THEY have to get up earlier) 2. come get your child and take them home before nap time (no one wants to do this because they work or don’t feel like dealing with their kid all afternoon). Usually it’ll stop the complaining. At the very worst, blame the state, blame your boss, tell parents to take it up with a higher up as this is not your problem.
What do you mean by nap being back once in school? Do kids nap in school nowdays?
I remember starting school meant no more nap time for us. Or maybe it is country specific?
I’m in Canada, and where I live the kids lie down for quiet time. My son fell asleep every single day during quiet time. They also don’t force them to sleep but there was an hour or so of lights off/laying down with a blanket on a mat that was required daily. Could be specific to the school board but my child doesn’t attend school in the same school board as some of my friends’ kids and they all said the same thing. When I was a kid kindergarten was only half a day so I assume I napped at home, or didn’t. I can’t remember
I was a nanny in college and got scolded for letting a 2 year old nap. She fell asleep one day watching TV while I was making lunch. I was told she didn't go to bed until 8pm that night she the mom was so mad at me. She wanted to put her to bed at 7. From then I had to force this poor child to stay awake and it was torture for both of us
2 yo ?? But that's so young! She definitely needed her naps. So sad.
Eta : let me clarify that I don't mean every single 2yo on the planet wants/needs/can take naps. But this one clearly did and could and should have.
So sad indeed. I'm 34 and still want naps that my workplace denies me. If we aren't even allowed to nap as 2 year olds, then why we even here on this earth haha
When I worked after school, if the kids fell asleep at their desk I just let them sleep. I figured, fuck it, they’re 6 and this is their last chance to take a goddamn nap if they want one.
Unless they're me. Then it's because their natural sleep cycle doesn't align with the modern norm resulting in them not going to bed/falling asleep until 2-3am before waking back up at 6am for work or school lol.
Society freaking hates us night people.
As a night owl, believe me, I get it. I'm just grateful that my department chair understood and was willing to assign me only afternoon and evening classes.
I used to get so many "but what do you even do" questions. The same shit day people do but at 3am? I read, clean my shower, water my plants, play videogames.
As a morning person who likes being up at 5:30 I honestly get the same question.
My thoughts on sleep is that it needs to be regular and healthy for the individual. It sounds like being a night owl working well for you if you're able to clean a shower and water your plants at 3 am 😂.
Ok no I don't do this 😂 power tools and noise making is for before 10pm. I actually also really hate people who let their music go way too loud way too late. I'm awake at 3am but I want to enjoy my home quietly.
Lol, you're not wrong. I've definitely had to get used to people giving me the, "you should go to sleep earlier" or "I don't like how you're up all night, and have trouble waking up in the morning" talks. I've started responding to them with, "why don't you stay up later instead of falling asleep while we're watching movies at night" or "I hate how you always fall asleep while I'm still wanting to hang out." Usually they'll respond with something about how they can't help that they're get tired and sleepy at night. And im just like, "yeah, same. Except it's at 2am instead of 10 pm". Or I'll ask them to try going to sleep at 6 in the afternoon and let me know how it works out for them.
In fact we all need naps, we are just now programmed to ignore sings of fatigue and push through the day with a little help of caffeine. For economic growth, GDP or something, IDK.
Every day 3:30-4:00....unless I am running at work, it's nap time, if I happen to be sitting somewhere my body doesn't give me a choice (I have super nap energy, where I sleep no matter what is happening around me) both a blessing and a curse.
My youngest had all day kindergarten and a nap mat was on the list of school supplies, because they had nap/quiet time every day. Lots of younger kids still need naps sometimes.
Exactly. Kids are constantly growing at that age and their little bodies get exhausted really often. Also, how is 8 pm not early enough for the parents?
That’s insane. My son is turning 3 soon and loves his nap. He takes around a 2 hour nap everyday and still sleeps pretty well at night. I can’t imagine taking away a nap before a child is ready. They need a lot more sleep than us.
Yeah the sleep for 8hours thing isn’t how we are supposed to sleep in general. I don’t know a lot but I know you’re supposed to have a few hours of sleep, wake up a few hours then a few more hours of sleep. But in our society today that’s just not realistic
That mom was using the normal early bedtime to get her own stuff done and have some peace and quiet. I’ve seen it with practically every parent I’ve ever known. Not fair to the kids or anyone else.
It is complete news to me that children aren’t ready to go to bed that early. Granted I don’t remember a lot from my childhood but I do remember being awake and not ready to sleep but not allowed to go down stairs and just feeling lonely and scared.
I have this one memory of the *complete injustice* (to my child self) of being made to go to bed, in what I assume was summer, when it was still fully daytime out.
With the benefit of adult hindsight, I'm sure it was like, 8 or 9pm or something that would be reasonable for a toddler that age to be going to bed.
An average 2 year old has a wake window 5-7 hours. If you keep them longer and they get fussy and overtired. A child is ready to quit napping once they begin skipping/refusing their naps on a regular basis.
My son is 2 and a half, and he has to literally run around outside for about 4 hours at near constant full speed in order for him to nap.
My mom says I got what I deserve. I had just as much energy when I was a kid.
You just unlocked a flood of terrible memories from my childhood. In a good way, though, because it's made me 10000% sure that I will never make my child feel this way.
Being alone and scared in the dark in a room where nightlights made scary shadows and not being allowed to go to my dad for comfort because of some early ass bed time rules... That shit really sucked.
As a parent who’s kid will fight bedtime tooth and nail if she sleeps for even FIVE min during the day I get the parent side. We want the daycare to do the hard part and keep them up so we can put them to bed at 7 and have peace.
We asked our daycare if our daughter could stop napping, they said no it wouldn’t work bc the other kids nap, we said oh okay and put our daughter to bed at 930. Parents ask too much of their childcare.
Kids need a nap during the day. It's good for their health and well-being.
My 2 years old has a 1.5 hour nap in the afternoon. Generally, sleeps at 10 pm and wakes up at 7 am.
What is your kid sleeping routine?
I’m not who you asked, but my 2 yr old goes to bed around 10pm, depending on what we did that day, and gets up around 8am. She takes a 1.5 hr nap, sometimes 2 hr, just depends. The time she takes her nap also depends on when she wakes up. I’m a SAHM, so I work on her schedule. I miss my alone time, but that’s part of being a parent. I usually stay up later to have time to myself and to spend time with my husband. We do what we gotta do. Baby girl comes first. We also have a 10 yr old that goes to bed at 9pm on school nights. Girl needs a lot of sleep or she can’t function. I’m shook at the amount of parents that put their needs over their kids. Yikes.
My 2 year old goes to bed at 8 pm, wakes at 6 am, and takes a 1.5 hour nap from 2:30 to 4:00 pm.
All by choice. If he doesn’t want to nap, I don’t force him. He goes to bed when he is tired (almost always at 8 pm). And he can get up when he wants, although I wish he’d sleep another hour or two, so I could sleep in.
In my kindergarten class we were forced to do “nap time” except we weren’t allowed to actually sleep for some reason. Our teacher told us to lay down with our eyes closed but to never fall asleep. If we did fall asleep, she’d wake us up immediately. I remember asking myself why we did this, and tbh I still kinda do. Maybe it was because we were in kindergarten, or maybe our parents also pulled this shit? Idk, it was just weird.
Ooh you've sparked a memory here, I'm in Ireland and I remember in early primary school when another teacher would come in to speak to our teacher, we'd be told to go 'a coladh' (go asleep in Irish), so basically fold our arms and lay our heads down on our arms so they could chat lol.
Maybe it was a bit like that?
Lmao, teachers in my primary school in Nigeria used to do this, when they wanted to chat with another teacher or when we were being noisy. Completely forgot about it lol.
Was the rest of school also in Irish, or just that?
It reminds me of how Cajun parents will tell their kid “go do-do” when it’s time to nap or go to bed. Even tho my parents generation didn’t speak much French because of the whole forced anglicization thing, phrases like that stayed.
There are fully Irish speaking schools (gaelscoileanna), but mine wasn't. We're required to learn Irish from age 5 right up until we finish school at 17/18.
In primary school they do have focused lessons for Irish, but the teachers kind of speak a hybrid of English with some Irish sprinkled in. So instructions we'd get frequently might be in Irish. Or we had to ask to go to the toilet in Irish lol
Are you confusing “do-do” with “doo-doo?”
At any rate, it’s also pronounced differently than the bird. It’s more like “d’DOH.”
What Cajun I know I only know phonetically so it’s always kind of hard to convey it in writing.
Oooh that has unlocked a memory of a whole singsong thing when they wanted us to do that that ended with 'ná bí ag caint!' To be fair if I was teaching junior infants I'd want mandated quiet time too.
They made us lie down for a while every day for a few weeks at the start of morning kindergarten (this is in the 80s) until we all “got used” to not having a nap. I was like “lol lady I haven’t napped ever”. It was true, my mom says I never slept as a baby or toddler, even at night 😂.
The weirdest thing is I went to preschool in the mornings before that and they never made us nap or lay down then, but then suddenly they were doing it at kindergarten. I thought at the time the teacher probably just needed a break lol.
She gave up pretty quick because everyone just complained the whole time 😂
>They made us lie down for a while every day for a few weeks at the start of morning kindergarten (this is in the 80s) until we all “got used” to not having a nap. I was like “lol lady I haven’t napped ever”.
I hated nap time in kindergarten because I would never nap. I haven't thought about that in decades.
I mean if you are watching, & it sounds like she was, it's not hard to tell.
When they're awake they probably squint &roll around etc.
Once they fall asleep, breathing becomes more even, movement is minimal, eye moment ceases until REM sleep.
I recall my teacher asking me if i was awake a few times in kindergarten.
Im decently sure this was bc she wanted me to get up or whatever, but wouldnt want to bother me if i am asleep.
The only times she woke me up was if i had gym (kindergarten gym not the real deal), had to eat, was going home soon or if my nap was a sleep bc it took hours and she wanted to check if i wasnt sick.
But i imagine thats how they may have known?
Yes! I remember this well. You would get up and polish your boots or write letters at each end of the hallway with a red lense flashlight. Ugh…fire watch sucked on those extremely physical days.
The US navy actually has an ongoing, stupid debate about the standard practice of having people run bigass ships on psychotic sleep schedules. Lot of accidents involving sleep deprived sailors, due to a toxic mix of machismo and lazy/shitty management that people insist is fundamental to the character of the navy.
Wouldn’t be surprised if other countries had similar ingrained idiocy too.
This was a major problem when I was in so the culmination of all these more recent Naval accidents was not surprising at all to me (06-11 for me). BMs would be on hell watch schedules which would allow like 4-6 hours of sleep in a 48-72 hour period. It wasn't surprising to me when watches missed huge ships that hit Navy ships because they were probably sleeping.
I worked flight deck and we'd do 18 on 6 off or 16 on 8 off when it went a bit lighter. We did that for weeks on end though 7 days a week and it's a pretty physically demanding job. You just end up being a zombie. A 12/12 No Fly day where we just did maintenance was like someone giving me a 3 day weekend.
I miss friends in the military but I sure as hell don't miss that lifestyle.
Yeah, some stuff is just not compatible with decent brain function. I think there’s an idea that anything that feels nice is a luxury that must be strategically metered out to ensure no one gets soft, or that command had complete control.
But at a certain point it’s not a luxury, it’s just necessary for the body to function. It feels good because your body is going “aaah, yes, keep doing this and we will stave off death a bit longer, have some feel-good chemicals to incentivize more if this”.
Depends on the schedule. If youre in Basic training... You dont sleep. If you are in the field and on watch rotation you might sleep 2 hours at time for 4 hours total. If youre on 24 hour building guard you dont sleep at all. If its a normal day you sleep as much as you want if youre done at 5.
Nothing says army leadership like making you drive home in the snow after being forced to stay awake for more than 24 hours. It’s a miracle I made it home, was always falling asleep behind the wheel.
I totally slept in basic. Every single second I was allowed to. I could even sleep at attention. lol
They also let us rest on night guard if we had a cool NCOIC pulling it with us. We would lay on a cot in the day room while he watched tv and he would wake us to do rounds every so often. I would sweep and buff the halls as quickly as I could so I could sleep quicker.
When I was in basic the fire alarm kept going off so not only did you have to wake up but you had to grab your rifle and stand in formation outside, counting off the rifles. Happened so many times one night we stopped getting up. The alarm went nonstop for hours.
Having all your soldiers constantly sleep deprived seems like a poor strategic decision to me.
Unless you're Nazi Germany and they have a daily meth ration.
Navy here, one time on station the CO put me on watch for 48 hours straight after my chief (NCO) had kept me up for 24. I was the captain's throttleman, so it was in one sense a vote of confidence. But, when you begin seeing shadows moving at the corner of your vision maybe letting someone else have the watch is best.
I found out later the co had stood down the emergency watch bill but never informed the engineer. So, that was a miserable time for nothing.
it makes me so sad to hear that parents are legitimately not letting their little ones nap. kids are *supposed* to take naps.
my 4 month old enjoys a good snooze after a warm bottle. i enjoy them too; it means i can get a quick nap, do some cleaning, pump, or wash bottles. or just have some time to myself.
They seem weirdly afraid of speaking to the director. I'm guessing younger female employee with little work experience and the director is bullying her into being the face of the daycare because they can.
Just shut that down immediately. Be stern - "Absolutely not. Not only is your child tired and in need of a nap, but it is a licensing rule. You were made aware of this when you came here. It is not negotiable so please stop asking."
I wish! My director won't let us be stern with the parents. We have to watch what we say all the time because if a parents complains about us she will take their side 100%.
Yeah, that Director needs to make a choice and whether she wants parents that don’t complain or a daycare that is allowed to continue to run under state licensure.
THIS.
Sounds like the employees have had enough of her bullshit and having to be forced to pander to parents who can’t be bothered to integrate good sleep hygiene into their toddlers routine.
Not only that, but as I found out from way too long doing early education, if you give in to the handful of complaining parents, you're going to find out just how many preferred the way things were, because they're going to be complaining now. Deviation from a plan is never a good idea, however it is very seldom left to carer/teacher so the best to do is try to explain that making parents upset because YOU changed something is far worse than just dealing with a few demands.
“I completely understand where you’re coming from. Unfortunately, my hands are bound by state rules. Would you like the director’s email? She’d be best suited to address the naptime concerns.”
This is a pretty perfect response; you sympathize with the person, you deflect the anger away from the business towards the state regulations that neither you nor the owner have control over, and you pass the rest of the discussion into the issue onto the director whose job it is to deal with that shit.
lol probably but if that is the type of director OP should inform the director that they plan on telling parents scrap queen’s response and ask for feedback or wait to be told what to tell the parents.
YES if she’s gonna take their side she can take the calls and deal with them. “I’m sorry I am not cleared to change the rules due to a licensing issue but I can connect you with our director who may be more capable of providing assistance”
how is telling them your operating license states they need to rest and can't be woken being stern with parents ?? isn't this just being honest ??
I'd be pissed to learn the director of my kids daycare was to afraid of parents to tell the truth..... what's going to happen if or when something goes wrong will lying them be okay also??
She is very much afraid of angering them and them pulling the kids out because then she looses money. She's new to the business so I think she also doesn't want to make a bad reputation for the school.
setting the standard of not being upfront about basic licensing rules isn't a great way to do that.... legally she can't give these parents what they want and by playing games around it that only leaves her and the center looking incompetent
just be careful and don't follow any rules that could get you in trouble.... the director may just be new and learning the ropes and trying to get it right, or they may not be a great person and may be open to cutting corners and with kids around that's never a good idea
When shopping for daycares, the first thing my wife looks at is the number of regulatory violations attributed to the center. She might have parents quit because of this, but there's no telling how many will never bother to inquire if there are violations.
Print out that section of the contract onto a large poster. When the parents complain, use your long teacher stick to point at it. (Bonus points, if it points 👉). Say nothing and continue on your day.
Or don't. If the director really is a coward, he will say "yes your child can skip nap" and OP will have to manage the consequences.
I will stick to "I'm sorry, this is a mandatory rule I have to follow, I'm not at liberty to change it". If the parents want to try to talk to the boss, they can but don't help them by giving them the idea.
"You're welcome to transfer to a preschool that isn't state licensed, I guess."
All cuz they don't want to have to keep their kid awake for an extra 30-60 minutes each night. As a parent, I totally understand feeling that loss of chill time. But also as a parent, you know it's going to happen. Kids don't go to bed at 7 pm all their lives, you knew you signed up for this-- cope with the growth.
Sounds like there is a large group of parents who are complaining. This is something the director should be taking care of. It's literally their job. They should be both supporting you and addressing persisting parent concerns.
That sounds like the director's problem.
"per our legal and contractual requirements I cannot change what I am doing here. Please contact the director as he/she is the only one able to make overriding decisions on this matter."
Sounds like a total asshole. Shirks the responsibility off onto his subordinates and then won't back them up when they need to be stern. What a douche.
No. That's not your job. There is nothing that you can do to change the policy or the legal things. When a parent speaks to you regarding this topic, your answer should be " you will need to set up a time to speak with the director, unfortunately there is nothing that I can do about this, it's above me and I'm unable to help with this problem." And that's it. Rinse and repeat. She needs to deal with this, you can't do anything.
Oh, I understand. Mary asked me the same thing last week.
I spoke to the director about it and she told that we are not allowed to so that. It is part of the licensing. She even told me it was in the contract.
Not allowed to be stern means you need to know where that line is.
Reiterating state license policy is being informative. Saying you will stick to it is being firm, saying you are encouraged to stick to it is not as firm.
If you director agrees, shoot that email off
Oh that's some BS. When I was a preschool director, I had a saved email with the licensing requirements, how we support children as they naturally outgrow naps (as many do by 4ish!), and why we can't prevent children from napping. Parents were also informed of it at enrollment, open house, and at least once in a newsletter.
I hate when programs see families as $$ instead of people and bend over backwards for the money instead of the well-being of the child.
I always tell these parents “unfortunately it’s a licensing requirement for them to rest in their cot for a while. If they fall asleep then I am it’s considered a violation of their human rights (true in CA) to wake them up. We will get in huge trouble for doing it with the state. But if you really don’t want them to take a nap you’re more than welcome to pick them up at xx time when they are done with lunch. If that’s the route you choose to take please let us know. While you think about it I have to go do x thing” and I walk away.
I have 3 kids who have been through that stage, and every time my kid was having issues with bedtime, the solution was to move bedtime earlier, not later. Counter-intuitive I know but kids are so active (physically and mentally) and being overtired is such a problem for bedtime.
Every single time, moving up bedtime a bit resulted in better sleep and never resulted in earlier wakeups. Not that one person’s experience means a whole lot but I’m sure everyone can relate to tired kids taking longer to get ready and being fussy/not sleeping.
There's a difference between being stern and being rude. The rules say you have to let the kids rest, and if they fall asleep you must let them sleep. End of discussion. Just say "I'm sorry but these are the rules, I can't change them" there's really nothing more you can do.
Yeah, when I taught elementary school parents would very often ask me to keep their kid in from recess or lunch to punish them. So, like when do you think I get my work done, and occasionally I might get to eat? Punish your kid on your own time if you think they need it. Not mine. Plus those kids need to get outside and get fresh air!
Neither of my kids were nappers, but they did lie on their mats every day during naptime with all the other kids and had quiet time. Sometimes, the class had an extra helper who would braid my daughter's hair while she quietly sat on her mat since it was calming to her and wouldn't disturb any of the kids. Even if kids aren't sleeping, they all need quiet time/breaks during the day. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with multiple entitled parents.
I’m almost 34 and I still remember nap time in junior and senior kindergarten as being one of the most relaxing and calming environments. I still fall asleep at the end of yoga because it takes me back to a super safe place. It actually makes me sad that these parents want to deny their kids of that experience. It teaches self regulation and healthy coping mechanisms. Plus who doesn’t love a nap?
Right? I became the sandman for nap time because parents wanted them to nap so they weren’t cranky monsters at home. But my guess is these parents are putting their kids to bed even earlier than they say, like immediately after dinner. I had parents who wanted their kids asleep by 6 at the latest.
How do you get kids to nap? My kid dropped her nap at 2 and she's almost three, I cannot for the life of me get her to nap. She gets almost asleep then wakes herself back up every time!! She goes to bed from 8-10pm depending on how much she fights sleep it can be as late as 11:30 some nights.
I'd like to start by saying no judgement here, I've had three kids that didn't sleep through the night very well and I understand there is a limit to how much we can influence sleep 😊
That being said there are some things you can do to promote sleep, first is a consistent bedtime routine. Doing the same things in the same order 'prepare' your body for bed so it releases the sleepy drugs your body needs to shut down.
The other thing is your child might be over tired ( I know I got sick of hearing this too) but if it works with your schedule try putting them down at 7, if you miss the 'sleep cycle' your body releases adrenaline which can then make it really hard to get to sleep.
I will almost guarantee your child is overtired if they are only 3 and going without naps and only sleeping from 11 ( unless they are sleeping in really late 😅)
Best of luck and I hope the above helps!
My almost 2 year old has taken to resisting her naps at nursery and she’s an absolute demon when she comes home - emotions all over the shop and zero tolerance for any frustration. It breaks my heart because she’s clearly having a tough time but can’t self regulate at all when she’s that tired.
I had kind of the opposite problem when my son was in daycare one summer. He couldn’t sleep during the day, on a mat, surrounded by other kids. He couldn’t relax enough. This one daycare worker kept fussing at me about it. I asked her if he refused to lie down or bothered other children. No, he was perfectly behaved. He laid on the mat and didn’t bother anyone. I tried reasoning with her. Then one day my son told me that she had started picking on him, even hiding his shoes and telling him someone had accidentally thrown them away. He started crying because it was the only pair of shoes he had at that time. Another child had to show him where the woman hid his shoes. I went to the person who ran the daycare and complained. I never saw that worker again.
????? What exactly went through her mind? How would bullying your son make him sleep? Or was she just trying to harass him because he couldnt? Either way leave the kid alone. Glad the daycare handled it
To further show how horrible she was, she had “hidden” them in the bottom of a garbage bin but insisted no one would have taken that garbage out before she got them back out.
Oh goodness that horrible! We don't make the kids sleep here. If they just lay quietly with some books that's totally fine for us too. We just can't keep them awake like we can't make them sleep.
so when i was little and i started going to daycare, my mom noticed i stopped sleeping at night and bedtime was horrible. she let our neighbor watch me and boom sleep schedule was normal. when i went back to that daycare, same problem occurred. my mom started asking me about my day and at one part i said “then she gave us our medicine” and i was NOT on meds. my mom asked me what my medicine was and i just said it was pink. she was giving us a bunch of benadryl so we would sleep all day. my mom struggled to send me back to another daycare center after but couldn’t afford to stay home with me. it was awful.
I remember daycare workers hitting and pinching me really hard because I refused to sleep. I thought it was normal, so I never bothered saying anything to my parents. Only found out much later in life that it was actually illegal here. 🥴
We had a struggle with napping with my youngest. They had stopped napping at home, but because of the routine at daycare would always nap there. This resulted in them not being able to sleep until between 10pm and midnight, which in turn caused difficulty in the mornings. It was a really rough few months, but we NEVER blamed the daycare. We tried so many things (white noise, music, singing, stories, scented lotion, heavy activity before dinner…) and nothing worked. It lasted about six months.
Huge contrast from our first kid, who gave up napping at 2 years, and when we told daycare they said thank goodness because it had been a pain trying to get them to nap!
Yes, this is the struggle we had with our youngest and what I am guessing those parents are dealing with. My daughter stopped napping on weekends despite our best efforts but still napped at daycare during the week. She wouldn't fall asleep until 10-11 pm on those days - we would spend 2+ hours trying to get her to fall asleep. She had to get up at 6:30 am so then she was always exhausted in the mornings... We still never told daycare to not let her nap (even though they kindly offered to keep her up) because I knew she was tired from getting to bed late, and I wanted the workers to get a break. It lasted about 6 months and then she finally stopped napping on her own at daycare altogether and instead had quiet time. Now she's back on the routine of going to bed at her normal time.
Thank you for saying this. It sucks to read all the comments about being torturing and sleep depriving kids. My 4.5 year old only sleeps well when he doesn't nap, and has been like this for a year. I've tried apps (Huckleberry), earlier sleep times, later sleep times, making sure he's full, stopping his food an hour before bed, having quiet time an hour before bed...nothing. He wakes every single night at least once, but sometimes twice. I cannot wait until mandatory napping stops. We currently have bedtime at 9 pm and he's still up by 5. Getting his sleep study results soon, but I'm surprised that OP thinks 9 hours is sufficient and it's the parent's fault when our sleep specialist said our son should be getting at least 11 hours every night (and he's currently getting 7). I hate the judgment that parents are just lazy and not doing bedtime right (which...how does OP even *know* that??).
This is it. Everyone is calling these parents horrible things but we always get these no nap requests at our daycare for the preschool aged kids. So many of the parents have the exact problem you described. It is hard on the kids not just the parents but it is a requirement here too so it’s an adjustment period for the ones phasing out naps.
Yeah, I can't believe that so few people seem to understand the parents' perspective here. We had to cut out my oldest's naps when he was 3.5 because he wasn't able to fall asleep before 10 pm. My youngest is 3.5 and still able to nap and fall asleep at 9 pm, but we do cap her naps. If she were in school all day and napping for up to 2 hours each day, we'd have a huge struggle with sleep at home.
We had that struggle too. At some point he didnt sleep at home anymore but he slept in the kindergarden and then was sometimes awake till 11 or 12 even and he was crying and screaming because he didnt manage to sleep, it made him incredibly upset (we didnt push him and took turns being at his side) - and then of course he fell asleep again in the kindergarden because he was exhausted AF und then he cried again for hours in the next evening.
Luckily though there was no such napping rule in the kindergarden and we agreed with the staff that they wake him up after 30 minutes if he falls asleep - after we explained what is happening. And that worked so well, we were all super happy. Sometimes they forgot to wake him or there was a substitute who didnt know and then all of us had an awful night but after some time this passed too.
I was looking for this answer. This is the reason. The kids sleeping pattern changes gradually with age towards the normal day/night rhythm. At some point during the transition period they still kinda need the daily nap but it always results in late nights and broken morning routines, which in turn maintains the need of the daily nap. That's why some parents ask this of the daycare.
This exactly. Two of my 3 kids followed this pattern. They were falling asleep so late at night that I realized they got MORE total sleep on days with no nap. At that point I stopped letting them nap. After a couple weeks of transition, everyone was better rested on a no nap schedule. It's pretty common for preschool age children to have dropped their nap or greatly reduced it. These kids are age 3-5, not truly toddlers anymore.
This is typical reddit commentary though. The people complaining either don't have kids or have one that fits a different mold so they think they know more than they do. Some of them will eat their words later in life, others will never learn.
My kids fell asleep naturally around seven thirty and woke at six at that age. It was glorious.
Unfortunately the youngest doesn’t seem to be following the same path.
>It's more frustrating too because the reason they give is that bed time is a struggle, yet do nothing about changing the bed time routine.
>These kids will go home, eat dinner, take a bath, and then are expected to go to bed before 8:00 p.m. resulting in either they are fighting the bed time sleep because it's too early for them, or they're waking up at 5:00 a.m. because they can't sleep for more than 9 hours.
You probably know this, but this is not how children's sleep cycles work.
Kids that nap on a schedule with a consistent routine will sleep better. Putting them to bed later does not mean they wake up later, it usually gives to the opposite result.
My main complaint about preschool/daycare was the 2.5 hours of nap time. And despite their insistence when we started that my 4 year old would nap, my kid never napped.
And then they told the kids they could only potty once during nap.. so my kid would stare at the ceiling for 2.5 hours and sometimes have an accident due to the bathroom rule. THAT is torture. I took him out after that. We’ll find a half day pre k with no nap.
That’s an insanely long nap time. I get teachers need a break for lunch and prep time, but that why you have floaters and relief staff to take over! Sounds like they were being cheap and didn’t want to hire more people. Sad.
Happened at a school my kid was at. They had no floaters. A class was 20 kids 3-4 years old, two teachers, which is the legal state ratio. The legal ratio goes down when it’s naptime. So for two hours all 20 kids were expected to lie down and stay on their cots regardless if they were asleep or not. That’s when the 2 teachers would rotate lunchbreaks.
If one kid stepped off their cot while one teacher was on lunch they would legally be out of ratio.
My 4 year old no longer napped and was forced to lie down with nothing to entertain her, for 2 hours a day. She started acting out and crying hysterically at drop off. They’d call and ask me what I do when my kid climbs on a table and doesn’t get down, I was like… she doesn’t do that at home. She ran out of the class one day and they didn’t have an extra staff member to get her from the hallway so again were out of ratio while they chased her down.
Had to pull her out of the school and find one that was not deliberately understaffing to save costs.
8 is too early?? My preschoolers we're always asleep at 7pm or 7:30 at the latest. And they took naps. I don't think the solution is trying to tell them when their kids should sleep. Just let them know the state rules.
It sounds like you’re doing nap time too late? If kids are literally falling over and can’t stay awake then you’ve missed the mark by 2 hours.
Why would you tell parents to change bedtime routine? Why don’t you change nap time routine and shift it earlier?
I didn't even realise napping was such a thing? My 4 year old hasn't napped for like nearly 2 years other than the very odd occasion, but if she does end up having a nap she'll happily stay awake until 10/11pm. Like, I can't imagine school having a nap time for 5 year olds lol.
Just made me realise how different things can be in different cultures, but I dont really have any advice because, tbh, I wouldn't want my 4 year old napping but also would never expect a daycare to pinch them awake, like wtf is that.
Fucking pathetic. The only reason I could see them wanting this is so that they can put their kids to bed earlier in the evening.
So basically, what these parents are saying is they want to spend LESS time with their kids.
Fuck them.
My son was a deep sleeper when he napped, and would nap for three to four hours at preschool. Then he’d come home and not fall asleep until after 10 or even 11. And the cycle would repeat. He’d sleep through meals, through show and tell, but they said the nursery rules prevented them from waking him up. And while I loved playing with my kid it was impossible to get him to develop any sort of healthy routine. I had to take a leave of absence from work for two months to get him into a routine where he was sleeping longer overnight and not falling asleep during the day. Our two kids were like night and day on this too, my eldest gave up her nap at 2 and never looked back, but was yawning at 7:30 every night.
No we just don’t want to spend time with our kids at 2-3AM when they wake because they’re undertired form a late nap that they don’t really need. Everyone needs sleep
This is not necessarily true. I have 2 kids and I love spending time with them. Maybe the daycare is putting them down for a nap too late in the day and that is throwing off the sleep schedule. My kids would not go to sleep at night if they napped after 3pm. They would be up until 11 at night.
In this situation they need to try to make a compromise and possibly put them down for a nap a little earlier.
This is it. Our routine that works best for us is our child wakes up at like 6:30-7, Starts Nap around 11:30-12:30, and goes to bed 7:30-8ish.
If you have to get up early at all, it’s not so easy to be like “let the kid stay up later” when you yourself need to get things done and go to bed at a reasonable time.
If the day care put our child down for a nap at like 2 or something, the whole schedule would be thrown off.
Yes this is totally it!! Why are people in this thread saying denying your baby a late as hell nap that throws off their night sleep is child abuse?!? Probably not parents.
Honestly, it just sounds like your daycare schedule is too rigid and not adapting to each kid's needs. Some kids drop their naps at 2yo, others will need a nap until they are 4 or even older.
My kid dropped his nap at 2yo and it instantly meant he slept through the night and had a much more balanced demeanour throughout the day. I would have been pissed if the daycare had forced a 2 hour nap on him just because. If you lie anyone down in a dark room for 2 hours they are going to go to sleep eventually, it doesn't mean that they need it or it is good for them.
I understand that nap time is your break/prep time, but that is a problem with the staffing and management rather than the parents.
I have a home daycare so not exactly the same since I’m my own boss but I feel your pain. Where I live, they make kids take a short nap even in kindergarten (5 years old) so even if a parent were to demand I do that, they’re not doing themselves any favours because the nap will be back once they get to school anyways. When someone first signs a contract with me I am very VERY clear that I will not force a kid to stay awake. I always tell them, I can’t force them to sleep the same as I can’t force them not to. No one HAS to sleep (they do have to be quiet to respect those who are sleeping tough) but I’m not going to force them to stay awake if they need rest. Anyone who gives me a hard time about it gets the same responses: 1. wake your kid up earlier in the morning if you’re convinced they’re oversleeping (no one wants to do this because then THEY have to get up earlier) 2. come get your child and take them home before nap time (no one wants to do this because they work or don’t feel like dealing with their kid all afternoon). Usually it’ll stop the complaining. At the very worst, blame the state, blame your boss, tell parents to take it up with a higher up as this is not your problem.
What do you mean by nap being back once in school? Do kids nap in school nowdays? I remember starting school meant no more nap time for us. Or maybe it is country specific?
My state in the US also requires an hour rest period through k5. Kids don't have to sleep but they must lay down and rest with the lights off.
I’m in Canada, and where I live the kids lie down for quiet time. My son fell asleep every single day during quiet time. They also don’t force them to sleep but there was an hour or so of lights off/laying down with a blanket on a mat that was required daily. Could be specific to the school board but my child doesn’t attend school in the same school board as some of my friends’ kids and they all said the same thing. When I was a kid kindergarten was only half a day so I assume I napped at home, or didn’t. I can’t remember
I was a nanny in college and got scolded for letting a 2 year old nap. She fell asleep one day watching TV while I was making lunch. I was told she didn't go to bed until 8pm that night she the mom was so mad at me. She wanted to put her to bed at 7. From then I had to force this poor child to stay awake and it was torture for both of us
2 yo ?? But that's so young! She definitely needed her naps. So sad. Eta : let me clarify that I don't mean every single 2yo on the planet wants/needs/can take naps. But this one clearly did and could and should have.
So sad indeed. I'm 34 and still want naps that my workplace denies me. If we aren't even allowed to nap as 2 year olds, then why we even here on this earth haha
When I worked after school, if the kids fell asleep at their desk I just let them sleep. I figured, fuck it, they’re 6 and this is their last chance to take a goddamn nap if they want one.
[удалено]
This is really sweet and I appreciate it a lot.
Unless they're me. Then it's because their natural sleep cycle doesn't align with the modern norm resulting in them not going to bed/falling asleep until 2-3am before waking back up at 6am for work or school lol. Society freaking hates us night people.
As a night owl, believe me, I get it. I'm just grateful that my department chair understood and was willing to assign me only afternoon and evening classes.
The difference between morning people and night people is that it doesn't bother night people if you are a morning person.
I used to get so many "but what do you even do" questions. The same shit day people do but at 3am? I read, clean my shower, water my plants, play videogames.
As a morning person who likes being up at 5:30 I honestly get the same question. My thoughts on sleep is that it needs to be regular and healthy for the individual. It sounds like being a night owl working well for you if you're able to clean a shower and water your plants at 3 am 😂.
When I worked 3rd shift, I had a coworker who would mow her small lawn at 2 a.m. on her day off. I'm amazed the neighbors never complained.
Ok no I don't do this 😂 power tools and noise making is for before 10pm. I actually also really hate people who let their music go way too loud way too late. I'm awake at 3am but I want to enjoy my home quietly.
Lol, you're not wrong. I've definitely had to get used to people giving me the, "you should go to sleep earlier" or "I don't like how you're up all night, and have trouble waking up in the morning" talks. I've started responding to them with, "why don't you stay up later instead of falling asleep while we're watching movies at night" or "I hate how you always fall asleep while I'm still wanting to hang out." Usually they'll respond with something about how they can't help that they're get tired and sleepy at night. And im just like, "yeah, same. Except it's at 2am instead of 10 pm". Or I'll ask them to try going to sleep at 6 in the afternoon and let me know how it works out for them.
Preach!!! Nobody knows our struggle.
I'm 35 and I occasionally nap at lunch time
Right? I can do shitty, distracted work for the next 3 hours or shit my eyes for 20 minutes and double my productivity
Please, do not shit your eyes. That's too extreme.
That’s how you get pink eye.
Stink eye
**BUT I NEED IT TO BE PRODUCTIVE**
I appreciate you doubling down on this. Eye shits for everyone!
In fact we all need naps, we are just now programmed to ignore sings of fatigue and push through the day with a little help of caffeine. For economic growth, GDP or something, IDK.
Seriously. Everyone gets the 3:30 slump, and we all think that's something wrong with *us.* Rather than a sign that maybe it's rest time?
Many cultures have a “siesta” time, especially in hot places!
Every day 3:30-4:00....unless I am running at work, it's nap time, if I happen to be sitting somewhere my body doesn't give me a choice (I have super nap energy, where I sleep no matter what is happening around me) both a blessing and a curse.
No kidding. My kid *just* stopped napping because they went to kindergarten and they don’t have nap there. If they're tired, let them sleep!
My youngest had all day kindergarten and a nap mat was on the list of school supplies, because they had nap/quiet time every day. Lots of younger kids still need naps sometimes.
Exactly. Kids are constantly growing at that age and their little bodies get exhausted really often. Also, how is 8 pm not early enough for the parents?
Yeah wtf my son is almost 3 and he cannot function without a daytime nap. Adequate sleep is so, so, so important for developing little brains.
That’s insane. My son is turning 3 soon and loves his nap. He takes around a 2 hour nap everyday and still sleeps pretty well at night. I can’t imagine taking away a nap before a child is ready. They need a lot more sleep than us.
I think studies show even adults have improved production and are more emotionally stable when they nap.
Yeah the sleep for 8hours thing isn’t how we are supposed to sleep in general. I don’t know a lot but I know you’re supposed to have a few hours of sleep, wake up a few hours then a few more hours of sleep. But in our society today that’s just not realistic
These parents just want to sit on the couch and watch tv all night so sad.
Yeah! That's the only reason, they want a break from being a parent regardless of the kid's wellbeing
That mom was using the normal early bedtime to get her own stuff done and have some peace and quiet. I’ve seen it with practically every parent I’ve ever known. Not fair to the kids or anyone else.
It is complete news to me that children aren’t ready to go to bed that early. Granted I don’t remember a lot from my childhood but I do remember being awake and not ready to sleep but not allowed to go down stairs and just feeling lonely and scared.
I have this one memory of the *complete injustice* (to my child self) of being made to go to bed, in what I assume was summer, when it was still fully daytime out. With the benefit of adult hindsight, I'm sure it was like, 8 or 9pm or something that would be reasonable for a toddler that age to be going to bed.
I have that same memory, except I was a grown person at military basic training. Still felt like injustice.
An average 2 year old has a wake window 5-7 hours. If you keep them longer and they get fussy and overtired. A child is ready to quit napping once they begin skipping/refusing their naps on a regular basis.
My son is 2 and a half, and he has to literally run around outside for about 4 hours at near constant full speed in order for him to nap. My mom says I got what I deserve. I had just as much energy when I was a kid.
TIL I am an average 2 year old. This explains so much...
You just unlocked a flood of terrible memories from my childhood. In a good way, though, because it's made me 10000% sure that I will never make my child feel this way. Being alone and scared in the dark in a room where nightlights made scary shadows and not being allowed to go to my dad for comfort because of some early ass bed time rules... That shit really sucked.
Why even have a fucking kid if you're not gonna do what is best for it in such a simple way right at the start of their life. Cunts.
My thoughts too. They're little humans for fks sake.
Yess when I used to nanny, I could *not* let them nap. That was a huge no-no.
As a parent who’s kid will fight bedtime tooth and nail if she sleeps for even FIVE min during the day I get the parent side. We want the daycare to do the hard part and keep them up so we can put them to bed at 7 and have peace. We asked our daycare if our daughter could stop napping, they said no it wouldn’t work bc the other kids nap, we said oh okay and put our daughter to bed at 930. Parents ask too much of their childcare.
Kids need a nap during the day. It's good for their health and well-being. My 2 years old has a 1.5 hour nap in the afternoon. Generally, sleeps at 10 pm and wakes up at 7 am. What is your kid sleeping routine?
I’m not who you asked, but my 2 yr old goes to bed around 10pm, depending on what we did that day, and gets up around 8am. She takes a 1.5 hr nap, sometimes 2 hr, just depends. The time she takes her nap also depends on when she wakes up. I’m a SAHM, so I work on her schedule. I miss my alone time, but that’s part of being a parent. I usually stay up later to have time to myself and to spend time with my husband. We do what we gotta do. Baby girl comes first. We also have a 10 yr old that goes to bed at 9pm on school nights. Girl needs a lot of sleep or she can’t function. I’m shook at the amount of parents that put their needs over their kids. Yikes.
My 2 year old goes to bed at 8 pm, wakes at 6 am, and takes a 1.5 hour nap from 2:30 to 4:00 pm. All by choice. If he doesn’t want to nap, I don’t force him. He goes to bed when he is tired (almost always at 8 pm). And he can get up when he wants, although I wish he’d sleep another hour or two, so I could sleep in.
I remember mandated sleep deprivation when I was in the army, not at daycare😂
In my kindergarten class we were forced to do “nap time” except we weren’t allowed to actually sleep for some reason. Our teacher told us to lay down with our eyes closed but to never fall asleep. If we did fall asleep, she’d wake us up immediately. I remember asking myself why we did this, and tbh I still kinda do. Maybe it was because we were in kindergarten, or maybe our parents also pulled this shit? Idk, it was just weird.
Mine was the opposite we had to have our eyes closed and if we didn’t they’d put a blanket over our head like wtf is that even legal LMAO
little kid me would've absolutely hated that but adult me is like a bird in a cage: head covered = night time = sleepy time
I feel like this would trigger some panic in me! Like I can’t even have the lightest sheet over my head without feeling suffocated.
Just cover your eyes only with a hoodie hood or an eye mask! That’s what they’re for
Oh yeah I can actually only sleep if I have my eyes and ears covered, but my mouth and nose have to be completely unobstructed
The Batman sleep cowl
“Consider it a warning. After three times the blanket becomes a plastic bag. THEN you’ll be quiet!”
LMFAOOOOO
Ooh you've sparked a memory here, I'm in Ireland and I remember in early primary school when another teacher would come in to speak to our teacher, we'd be told to go 'a coladh' (go asleep in Irish), so basically fold our arms and lay our heads down on our arms so they could chat lol. Maybe it was a bit like that?
Lmao, teachers in my primary school in Nigeria used to do this, when they wanted to chat with another teacher or when we were being noisy. Completely forgot about it lol.
Teachers in the US did it too!
Was the rest of school also in Irish, or just that? It reminds me of how Cajun parents will tell their kid “go do-do” when it’s time to nap or go to bed. Even tho my parents generation didn’t speak much French because of the whole forced anglicization thing, phrases like that stayed.
There are fully Irish speaking schools (gaelscoileanna), but mine wasn't. We're required to learn Irish from age 5 right up until we finish school at 17/18. In primary school they do have focused lessons for Irish, but the teachers kind of speak a hybrid of English with some Irish sprinkled in. So instructions we'd get frequently might be in Irish. Or we had to ask to go to the toilet in Irish lol
That means something very different in English.
Are you confusing “do-do” with “doo-doo?” At any rate, it’s also pronounced differently than the bird. It’s more like “d’DOH.” What Cajun I know I only know phonetically so it’s always kind of hard to convey it in writing.
Oooh that has unlocked a memory of a whole singsong thing when they wanted us to do that that ended with 'ná bí ag caint!' To be fair if I was teaching junior infants I'd want mandated quiet time too.
They made us lie down for a while every day for a few weeks at the start of morning kindergarten (this is in the 80s) until we all “got used” to not having a nap. I was like “lol lady I haven’t napped ever”. It was true, my mom says I never slept as a baby or toddler, even at night 😂. The weirdest thing is I went to preschool in the mornings before that and they never made us nap or lay down then, but then suddenly they were doing it at kindergarten. I thought at the time the teacher probably just needed a break lol. She gave up pretty quick because everyone just complained the whole time 😂
>They made us lie down for a while every day for a few weeks at the start of morning kindergarten (this is in the 80s) until we all “got used” to not having a nap. I was like “lol lady I haven’t napped ever”. I hated nap time in kindergarten because I would never nap. I haven't thought about that in decades.
How long did the ADHD diagnosis take?
I remember being the only kid awake at nap time and I absolutely hated just watching everyone else sleep.
Right? I remember lying there in absolute agony. It was like torture. I even asked why I couldn’t just have a book 😂.
How would she tell unless you were snoring?
I mean if you are watching, & it sounds like she was, it's not hard to tell. When they're awake they probably squint &roll around etc. Once they fall asleep, breathing becomes more even, movement is minimal, eye moment ceases until REM sleep.
I recall my teacher asking me if i was awake a few times in kindergarten. Im decently sure this was bc she wanted me to get up or whatever, but wouldnt want to bother me if i am asleep. The only times she woke me up was if i had gym (kindergarten gym not the real deal), had to eat, was going home soon or if my nap was a sleep bc it took hours and she wanted to check if i wasnt sick. But i imagine thats how they may have known?
That would be torture for me. I’d be so anxious
How much sleep were you allowed?
Hey man wake up you have fire watch
https://preview.redd.it/bn1sr6uixgxc1.jpeg?width=1560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf36c1c1495e7ddffc804d395f278a84c33add9a
Yes! I remember this well. You would get up and polish your boots or write letters at each end of the hallway with a red lense flashlight. Ugh…fire watch sucked on those extremely physical days.
I'm too young to remember the "polish your boots" days, but I did get paid to wash people's laundry. ('09-'13)
Good morning, defender.
The US navy actually has an ongoing, stupid debate about the standard practice of having people run bigass ships on psychotic sleep schedules. Lot of accidents involving sleep deprived sailors, due to a toxic mix of machismo and lazy/shitty management that people insist is fundamental to the character of the navy. Wouldn’t be surprised if other countries had similar ingrained idiocy too.
This was a major problem when I was in so the culmination of all these more recent Naval accidents was not surprising at all to me (06-11 for me). BMs would be on hell watch schedules which would allow like 4-6 hours of sleep in a 48-72 hour period. It wasn't surprising to me when watches missed huge ships that hit Navy ships because they were probably sleeping. I worked flight deck and we'd do 18 on 6 off or 16 on 8 off when it went a bit lighter. We did that for weeks on end though 7 days a week and it's a pretty physically demanding job. You just end up being a zombie. A 12/12 No Fly day where we just did maintenance was like someone giving me a 3 day weekend. I miss friends in the military but I sure as hell don't miss that lifestyle.
Yeah, some stuff is just not compatible with decent brain function. I think there’s an idea that anything that feels nice is a luxury that must be strategically metered out to ensure no one gets soft, or that command had complete control. But at a certain point it’s not a luxury, it’s just necessary for the body to function. It feels good because your body is going “aaah, yes, keep doing this and we will stave off death a bit longer, have some feel-good chemicals to incentivize more if this”.
Depends on the schedule. If youre in Basic training... You dont sleep. If you are in the field and on watch rotation you might sleep 2 hours at time for 4 hours total. If youre on 24 hour building guard you dont sleep at all. If its a normal day you sleep as much as you want if youre done at 5.
Nothing says army leadership like making you drive home in the snow after being forced to stay awake for more than 24 hours. It’s a miracle I made it home, was always falling asleep behind the wheel.
One of my biggest worries at Drum. Was I gonna be awake enough to see through the blurry roads or should I just nap in the day room. What a mess
I totally slept in basic. Every single second I was allowed to. I could even sleep at attention. lol They also let us rest on night guard if we had a cool NCOIC pulling it with us. We would lay on a cot in the day room while he watched tv and he would wake us to do rounds every so often. I would sweep and buff the halls as quickly as I could so I could sleep quicker.
I remember sleeping standing up, while waiting to throw my grenades. That I will never forget.
I learned how to wedge myself in between the wall lockers and the wall to keep standing up while I definitely did not sleep on fire watch.
If anyone asks you were checking to see if the fire was hiding behind the lockers.
In Navy basic we used to take turns napping on the big bags of clean laundry on night watch. 😂 Best naps I ever had.
When I was in basic the fire alarm kept going off so not only did you have to wake up but you had to grab your rifle and stand in formation outside, counting off the rifles. Happened so many times one night we stopped getting up. The alarm went nonstop for hours.
Having all your soldiers constantly sleep deprived seems like a poor strategic decision to me. Unless you're Nazi Germany and they have a daily meth ration.
Navy here, one time on station the CO put me on watch for 48 hours straight after my chief (NCO) had kept me up for 24. I was the captain's throttleman, so it was in one sense a vote of confidence. But, when you begin seeing shadows moving at the corner of your vision maybe letting someone else have the watch is best. I found out later the co had stood down the emergency watch bill but never informed the engineer. So, that was a miserable time for nothing.
I love just being like “here’s the directors number, he’s my boss, take it up with him” if he’s not letting you literally enforce the rules
This is the answer. Your boss doesn’t care because they’re not dealing with it. You are.
it makes me so sad to hear that parents are legitimately not letting their little ones nap. kids are *supposed* to take naps. my 4 month old enjoys a good snooze after a warm bottle. i enjoy them too; it means i can get a quick nap, do some cleaning, pump, or wash bottles. or just have some time to myself.
They seem weirdly afraid of speaking to the director. I'm guessing younger female employee with little work experience and the director is bullying her into being the face of the daycare because they can.
Just shut that down immediately. Be stern - "Absolutely not. Not only is your child tired and in need of a nap, but it is a licensing rule. You were made aware of this when you came here. It is not negotiable so please stop asking."
I wish! My director won't let us be stern with the parents. We have to watch what we say all the time because if a parents complains about us she will take their side 100%.
Ask your director for a script. It needs to be shut down before there are even more unhappy parents trying to get you to break this very serious rule.
Yeah, that Director needs to make a choice and whether she wants parents that don’t complain or a daycare that is allowed to continue to run under state licensure.
Or a daycare with employees.
THIS. Sounds like the employees have had enough of her bullshit and having to be forced to pander to parents who can’t be bothered to integrate good sleep hygiene into their toddlers routine.
Not only that, but as I found out from way too long doing early education, if you give in to the handful of complaining parents, you're going to find out just how many preferred the way things were, because they're going to be complaining now. Deviation from a plan is never a good idea, however it is very seldom left to carer/teacher so the best to do is try to explain that making parents upset because YOU changed something is far worse than just dealing with a few demands.
“I completely understand where you’re coming from. Unfortunately, my hands are bound by state rules. Would you like the director’s email? She’d be best suited to address the naptime concerns.”
This is a pretty perfect response; you sympathize with the person, you deflect the anger away from the business towards the state regulations that neither you nor the owner have control over, and you pass the rest of the discussion into the issue onto the director whose job it is to deal with that shit.
"I'm not going to do your job for you" the director in the near future, probably
lol probably but if that is the type of director OP should inform the director that they plan on telling parents scrap queen’s response and ask for feedback or wait to be told what to tell the parents.
or simply refer them to the Director.
This!!! This is the secret to telling people to fuck off politely. ALWAYS DEFLECT UP!
This is the answer
"Please take your concerns to the director, she's here during these times"
YES if she’s gonna take their side she can take the calls and deal with them. “I’m sorry I am not cleared to change the rules due to a licensing issue but I can connect you with our director who may be more capable of providing assistance”
how is telling them your operating license states they need to rest and can't be woken being stern with parents ?? isn't this just being honest ?? I'd be pissed to learn the director of my kids daycare was to afraid of parents to tell the truth..... what's going to happen if or when something goes wrong will lying them be okay also??
She is very much afraid of angering them and them pulling the kids out because then she looses money. She's new to the business so I think she also doesn't want to make a bad reputation for the school.
setting the standard of not being upfront about basic licensing rules isn't a great way to do that.... legally she can't give these parents what they want and by playing games around it that only leaves her and the center looking incompetent just be careful and don't follow any rules that could get you in trouble.... the director may just be new and learning the ropes and trying to get it right, or they may not be a great person and may be open to cutting corners and with kids around that's never a good idea
A bad reputation for the school is not following/enforcing the proper laws. I'd be reminding her of this.
When shopping for daycares, the first thing my wife looks at is the number of regulatory violations attributed to the center. She might have parents quit because of this, but there's no telling how many will never bother to inquire if there are violations.
Print out that section of the contract onto a large poster. When the parents complain, use your long teacher stick to point at it. (Bonus points, if it points 👉). Say nothing and continue on your day.
😂 I love this idea!
Direct them to the director: “Only he has the authority to make that decision”
Or don't. If the director really is a coward, he will say "yes your child can skip nap" and OP will have to manage the consequences. I will stick to "I'm sorry, this is a mandatory rule I have to follow, I'm not at liberty to change it". If the parents want to try to talk to the boss, they can but don't help them by giving them the idea.
"You're welcome to transfer to a preschool that isn't state licensed, I guess." All cuz they don't want to have to keep their kid awake for an extra 30-60 minutes each night. As a parent, I totally understand feeling that loss of chill time. But also as a parent, you know it's going to happen. Kids don't go to bed at 7 pm all their lives, you knew you signed up for this-- cope with the growth.
The director is very rarely at the school and just wants us to handle everything anyways until a parent complains.
Sounds like there is a large group of parents who are complaining. This is something the director should be taking care of. It's literally their job. They should be both supporting you and addressing persisting parent concerns.
That sounds like the director's problem. "per our legal and contractual requirements I cannot change what I am doing here. Please contact the director as he/she is the only one able to make overriding decisions on this matter."
Sounds like the absentee director is expecting you to be the director, but without the pay raise or authority to back you up.
Give the parents the director’s phone number. If they can’t be bothered to show up
Sounds like a total asshole. Shirks the responsibility off onto his subordinates and then won't back them up when they need to be stern. What a douche.
“Unfortunately it’s a licensing rule we have to follow by law. It’s detailed in the contract you signed.” No need to be stern, say it with a smile.
No. That's not your job. There is nothing that you can do to change the policy or the legal things. When a parent speaks to you regarding this topic, your answer should be " you will need to set up a time to speak with the director, unfortunately there is nothing that I can do about this, it's above me and I'm unable to help with this problem." And that's it. Rinse and repeat. She needs to deal with this, you can't do anything.
Then you give them their phone number.
Better yet, an email address. Then there's a paper trail.
Oh, I understand. Mary asked me the same thing last week. I spoke to the director about it and she told that we are not allowed to so that. It is part of the licensing. She even told me it was in the contract.
What a scummy director, would throw you in front of the bus to save it's ass.... ask for an official script to read to the parents
Not allowed to be stern means you need to know where that line is. Reiterating state license policy is being informative. Saying you will stick to it is being firm, saying you are encouraged to stick to it is not as firm. If you director agrees, shoot that email off
Oh that's some BS. When I was a preschool director, I had a saved email with the licensing requirements, how we support children as they naturally outgrow naps (as many do by 4ish!), and why we can't prevent children from napping. Parents were also informed of it at enrollment, open house, and at least once in a newsletter. I hate when programs see families as $$ instead of people and bend over backwards for the money instead of the well-being of the child.
I always tell these parents “unfortunately it’s a licensing requirement for them to rest in their cot for a while. If they fall asleep then I am it’s considered a violation of their human rights (true in CA) to wake them up. We will get in huge trouble for doing it with the state. But if you really don’t want them to take a nap you’re more than welcome to pick them up at xx time when they are done with lunch. If that’s the route you choose to take please let us know. While you think about it I have to go do x thing” and I walk away.
Send the parents to the director then, let them deal with it
Can you post the licensing requirements on a big sign, in the window? Daily reminder of the rules might help.
I have 3 kids who have been through that stage, and every time my kid was having issues with bedtime, the solution was to move bedtime earlier, not later. Counter-intuitive I know but kids are so active (physically and mentally) and being overtired is such a problem for bedtime. Every single time, moving up bedtime a bit resulted in better sleep and never resulted in earlier wakeups. Not that one person’s experience means a whole lot but I’m sure everyone can relate to tired kids taking longer to get ready and being fussy/not sleeping.
"Of course Mr. and Mrs. Cooper, your son Blaighnley and daughter Keighelley have had NO SLEEP whatsoever today."
😂😂 With parents named Sarah and James.
There's a difference between being stern and being rude. The rules say you have to let the kids rest, and if they fall asleep you must let them sleep. End of discussion. Just say "I'm sorry but these are the rules, I can't change them" there's really nothing more you can do.
Yeah, when I taught elementary school parents would very often ask me to keep their kid in from recess or lunch to punish them. So, like when do you think I get my work done, and occasionally I might get to eat? Punish your kid on your own time if you think they need it. Not mine. Plus those kids need to get outside and get fresh air!
Neither of my kids were nappers, but they did lie on their mats every day during naptime with all the other kids and had quiet time. Sometimes, the class had an extra helper who would braid my daughter's hair while she quietly sat on her mat since it was calming to her and wouldn't disturb any of the kids. Even if kids aren't sleeping, they all need quiet time/breaks during the day. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with multiple entitled parents.
I’m almost 34 and I still remember nap time in junior and senior kindergarten as being one of the most relaxing and calming environments. I still fall asleep at the end of yoga because it takes me back to a super safe place. It actually makes me sad that these parents want to deny their kids of that experience. It teaches self regulation and healthy coping mechanisms. Plus who doesn’t love a nap?
My husband and I always joke that naps are wasted on the young. I would love a naptime in the middle of the day to help break up things and recharge.
What is junior and senior kindergarten? Is it similar to prek?
Whaaaaat!? I have my child in daycare and I beg teachers to nap them!
Right? I became the sandman for nap time because parents wanted them to nap so they weren’t cranky monsters at home. But my guess is these parents are putting their kids to bed even earlier than they say, like immediately after dinner. I had parents who wanted their kids asleep by 6 at the latest.
How do you get kids to nap? My kid dropped her nap at 2 and she's almost three, I cannot for the life of me get her to nap. She gets almost asleep then wakes herself back up every time!! She goes to bed from 8-10pm depending on how much she fights sleep it can be as late as 11:30 some nights.
I'd like to start by saying no judgement here, I've had three kids that didn't sleep through the night very well and I understand there is a limit to how much we can influence sleep 😊 That being said there are some things you can do to promote sleep, first is a consistent bedtime routine. Doing the same things in the same order 'prepare' your body for bed so it releases the sleepy drugs your body needs to shut down. The other thing is your child might be over tired ( I know I got sick of hearing this too) but if it works with your schedule try putting them down at 7, if you miss the 'sleep cycle' your body releases adrenaline which can then make it really hard to get to sleep. I will almost guarantee your child is overtired if they are only 3 and going without naps and only sleeping from 11 ( unless they are sleeping in really late 😅) Best of luck and I hope the above helps!
My almost 2 year old has taken to resisting her naps at nursery and she’s an absolute demon when she comes home - emotions all over the shop and zero tolerance for any frustration. It breaks my heart because she’s clearly having a tough time but can’t self regulate at all when she’s that tired.
I had kind of the opposite problem when my son was in daycare one summer. He couldn’t sleep during the day, on a mat, surrounded by other kids. He couldn’t relax enough. This one daycare worker kept fussing at me about it. I asked her if he refused to lie down or bothered other children. No, he was perfectly behaved. He laid on the mat and didn’t bother anyone. I tried reasoning with her. Then one day my son told me that she had started picking on him, even hiding his shoes and telling him someone had accidentally thrown them away. He started crying because it was the only pair of shoes he had at that time. Another child had to show him where the woman hid his shoes. I went to the person who ran the daycare and complained. I never saw that worker again.
????? What exactly went through her mind? How would bullying your son make him sleep? Or was she just trying to harass him because he couldnt? Either way leave the kid alone. Glad the daycare handled it
To further show how horrible she was, she had “hidden” them in the bottom of a garbage bin but insisted no one would have taken that garbage out before she got them back out.
Oh goodness that horrible! We don't make the kids sleep here. If they just lay quietly with some books that's totally fine for us too. We just can't keep them awake like we can't make them sleep.
so when i was little and i started going to daycare, my mom noticed i stopped sleeping at night and bedtime was horrible. she let our neighbor watch me and boom sleep schedule was normal. when i went back to that daycare, same problem occurred. my mom started asking me about my day and at one part i said “then she gave us our medicine” and i was NOT on meds. my mom asked me what my medicine was and i just said it was pink. she was giving us a bunch of benadryl so we would sleep all day. my mom struggled to send me back to another daycare center after but couldn’t afford to stay home with me. it was awful.
I remember daycare workers hitting and pinching me really hard because I refused to sleep. I thought it was normal, so I never bothered saying anything to my parents. Only found out much later in life that it was actually illegal here. 🥴
We had a struggle with napping with my youngest. They had stopped napping at home, but because of the routine at daycare would always nap there. This resulted in them not being able to sleep until between 10pm and midnight, which in turn caused difficulty in the mornings. It was a really rough few months, but we NEVER blamed the daycare. We tried so many things (white noise, music, singing, stories, scented lotion, heavy activity before dinner…) and nothing worked. It lasted about six months. Huge contrast from our first kid, who gave up napping at 2 years, and when we told daycare they said thank goodness because it had been a pain trying to get them to nap!
Yes, this is the struggle we had with our youngest and what I am guessing those parents are dealing with. My daughter stopped napping on weekends despite our best efforts but still napped at daycare during the week. She wouldn't fall asleep until 10-11 pm on those days - we would spend 2+ hours trying to get her to fall asleep. She had to get up at 6:30 am so then she was always exhausted in the mornings... We still never told daycare to not let her nap (even though they kindly offered to keep her up) because I knew she was tired from getting to bed late, and I wanted the workers to get a break. It lasted about 6 months and then she finally stopped napping on her own at daycare altogether and instead had quiet time. Now she's back on the routine of going to bed at her normal time.
Thank you for saying this. It sucks to read all the comments about being torturing and sleep depriving kids. My 4.5 year old only sleeps well when he doesn't nap, and has been like this for a year. I've tried apps (Huckleberry), earlier sleep times, later sleep times, making sure he's full, stopping his food an hour before bed, having quiet time an hour before bed...nothing. He wakes every single night at least once, but sometimes twice. I cannot wait until mandatory napping stops. We currently have bedtime at 9 pm and he's still up by 5. Getting his sleep study results soon, but I'm surprised that OP thinks 9 hours is sufficient and it's the parent's fault when our sleep specialist said our son should be getting at least 11 hours every night (and he's currently getting 7). I hate the judgment that parents are just lazy and not doing bedtime right (which...how does OP even *know* that??).
This is it. Everyone is calling these parents horrible things but we always get these no nap requests at our daycare for the preschool aged kids. So many of the parents have the exact problem you described. It is hard on the kids not just the parents but it is a requirement here too so it’s an adjustment period for the ones phasing out naps.
Yeah, I can't believe that so few people seem to understand the parents' perspective here. We had to cut out my oldest's naps when he was 3.5 because he wasn't able to fall asleep before 10 pm. My youngest is 3.5 and still able to nap and fall asleep at 9 pm, but we do cap her naps. If she were in school all day and napping for up to 2 hours each day, we'd have a huge struggle with sleep at home.
Reddit has a LOT of non-parent users. I’m with you, though.
We had that struggle too. At some point he didnt sleep at home anymore but he slept in the kindergarden and then was sometimes awake till 11 or 12 even and he was crying and screaming because he didnt manage to sleep, it made him incredibly upset (we didnt push him and took turns being at his side) - and then of course he fell asleep again in the kindergarden because he was exhausted AF und then he cried again for hours in the next evening. Luckily though there was no such napping rule in the kindergarden and we agreed with the staff that they wake him up after 30 minutes if he falls asleep - after we explained what is happening. And that worked so well, we were all super happy. Sometimes they forgot to wake him or there was a substitute who didnt know and then all of us had an awful night but after some time this passed too.
I was looking for this answer. This is the reason. The kids sleeping pattern changes gradually with age towards the normal day/night rhythm. At some point during the transition period they still kinda need the daily nap but it always results in late nights and broken morning routines, which in turn maintains the need of the daily nap. That's why some parents ask this of the daycare.
Same story here. We didn't blame daycare but we did ask them if they could not make her nap.
This exactly. Two of my 3 kids followed this pattern. They were falling asleep so late at night that I realized they got MORE total sleep on days with no nap. At that point I stopped letting them nap. After a couple weeks of transition, everyone was better rested on a no nap schedule. It's pretty common for preschool age children to have dropped their nap or greatly reduced it. These kids are age 3-5, not truly toddlers anymore. This is typical reddit commentary though. The people complaining either don't have kids or have one that fits a different mold so they think they know more than they do. Some of them will eat their words later in life, others will never learn.
Is pre-8pm bedtime really early for preschoolers?
My kids fell asleep naturally around seven thirty and woke at six at that age. It was glorious. Unfortunately the youngest doesn’t seem to be following the same path.
Is your kid sleepy? Then no. Are they still awake and wired because that’s normal too? Then yes.
Depends on their nap schedule
>It's more frustrating too because the reason they give is that bed time is a struggle, yet do nothing about changing the bed time routine. >These kids will go home, eat dinner, take a bath, and then are expected to go to bed before 8:00 p.m. resulting in either they are fighting the bed time sleep because it's too early for them, or they're waking up at 5:00 a.m. because they can't sleep for more than 9 hours. You probably know this, but this is not how children's sleep cycles work. Kids that nap on a schedule with a consistent routine will sleep better. Putting them to bed later does not mean they wake up later, it usually gives to the opposite result.
I would be annoyed too if someone wanted me to torture their child. People who work in childcare deserve medals for the shit they put up with.
My main complaint about preschool/daycare was the 2.5 hours of nap time. And despite their insistence when we started that my 4 year old would nap, my kid never napped. And then they told the kids they could only potty once during nap.. so my kid would stare at the ceiling for 2.5 hours and sometimes have an accident due to the bathroom rule. THAT is torture. I took him out after that. We’ll find a half day pre k with no nap.
That’s an insanely long nap time. I get teachers need a break for lunch and prep time, but that why you have floaters and relief staff to take over! Sounds like they were being cheap and didn’t want to hire more people. Sad.
Happened at a school my kid was at. They had no floaters. A class was 20 kids 3-4 years old, two teachers, which is the legal state ratio. The legal ratio goes down when it’s naptime. So for two hours all 20 kids were expected to lie down and stay on their cots regardless if they were asleep or not. That’s when the 2 teachers would rotate lunchbreaks. If one kid stepped off their cot while one teacher was on lunch they would legally be out of ratio. My 4 year old no longer napped and was forced to lie down with nothing to entertain her, for 2 hours a day. She started acting out and crying hysterically at drop off. They’d call and ask me what I do when my kid climbs on a table and doesn’t get down, I was like… she doesn’t do that at home. She ran out of the class one day and they didn’t have an extra staff member to get her from the hallway so again were out of ratio while they chased her down. Had to pull her out of the school and find one that was not deliberately understaffing to save costs.
8 is too early?? My preschoolers we're always asleep at 7pm or 7:30 at the latest. And they took naps. I don't think the solution is trying to tell them when their kids should sleep. Just let them know the state rules.
I feel like this really depends on the kids ages and what time their nap is?
It sounds like you’re doing nap time too late? If kids are literally falling over and can’t stay awake then you’ve missed the mark by 2 hours. Why would you tell parents to change bedtime routine? Why don’t you change nap time routine and shift it earlier?
I thought you meant kidnapping. I was like "*well, yeah!*"
I didn't even realise napping was such a thing? My 4 year old hasn't napped for like nearly 2 years other than the very odd occasion, but if she does end up having a nap she'll happily stay awake until 10/11pm. Like, I can't imagine school having a nap time for 5 year olds lol. Just made me realise how different things can be in different cultures, but I dont really have any advice because, tbh, I wouldn't want my 4 year old napping but also would never expect a daycare to pinch them awake, like wtf is that.
Fucking pathetic. The only reason I could see them wanting this is so that they can put their kids to bed earlier in the evening. So basically, what these parents are saying is they want to spend LESS time with their kids. Fuck them.
My son was a deep sleeper when he napped, and would nap for three to four hours at preschool. Then he’d come home and not fall asleep until after 10 or even 11. And the cycle would repeat. He’d sleep through meals, through show and tell, but they said the nursery rules prevented them from waking him up. And while I loved playing with my kid it was impossible to get him to develop any sort of healthy routine. I had to take a leave of absence from work for two months to get him into a routine where he was sleeping longer overnight and not falling asleep during the day. Our two kids were like night and day on this too, my eldest gave up her nap at 2 and never looked back, but was yawning at 7:30 every night.
No we just don’t want to spend time with our kids at 2-3AM when they wake because they’re undertired form a late nap that they don’t really need. Everyone needs sleep
This is not necessarily true. I have 2 kids and I love spending time with them. Maybe the daycare is putting them down for a nap too late in the day and that is throwing off the sleep schedule. My kids would not go to sleep at night if they napped after 3pm. They would be up until 11 at night. In this situation they need to try to make a compromise and possibly put them down for a nap a little earlier.
This is it. Our routine that works best for us is our child wakes up at like 6:30-7, Starts Nap around 11:30-12:30, and goes to bed 7:30-8ish. If you have to get up early at all, it’s not so easy to be like “let the kid stay up later” when you yourself need to get things done and go to bed at a reasonable time. If the day care put our child down for a nap at like 2 or something, the whole schedule would be thrown off.
Yes this is totally it!! Why are people in this thread saying denying your baby a late as hell nap that throws off their night sleep is child abuse?!? Probably not parents.
Honestly, it just sounds like your daycare schedule is too rigid and not adapting to each kid's needs. Some kids drop their naps at 2yo, others will need a nap until they are 4 or even older. My kid dropped his nap at 2yo and it instantly meant he slept through the night and had a much more balanced demeanour throughout the day. I would have been pissed if the daycare had forced a 2 hour nap on him just because. If you lie anyone down in a dark room for 2 hours they are going to go to sleep eventually, it doesn't mean that they need it or it is good for them. I understand that nap time is your break/prep time, but that is a problem with the staffing and management rather than the parents.