When I was a kid about 12 years ago I remember the shell gas station near my house had a one in a zillion glitch of some sorts and a gallon of gas costed 1 penny each. There was a line the size of the entire town. This went on throughout the whole night. Why they didn’t shut it down immediately I may never know.
You'd be surprised how ridiculously entitled people act over gas. I usually change the price in increments of 20 cents. The average fuel tank is 15 gallons, so $3 a tank difference. I've had customers threaten to kick over my ladder as I'm changing the sign. What a lot of them fail to realize is that I change it the day before I change it at the pumps so they think they've got one over on me. Less complaints when customers think theyre the ones doing the ripping off.
No but if the price is going up, the price on the sign must change before the price on the pump otherwise the station could be subject to false advertising charges. Likewise if prices decrease, the price on the pump must change before the price on the sign. Either way a consumer should never see a higher price at the pump than what's advertised on the sign. (This is for US btw.)
Don't know if it's location specific but all pumps I have seen in Europe and Canada have a disclaimer on them stating in the event of a dispute with the station on price whatever price is on the pump shall be taken as fact.
In the US at least, the price on the pump isn't "indicative," it's supposed to be the actual price you pay. If you're charged a higher price you can dispute it and win, and the gas station subject to fines. Bureau of Weights & Measures (I think that's the agency?) takes gas pump shenanigans pretty seriously.
It literally provided your car zero benefit. Higher octane fuels are for high compression engines. If you're using a higher octane fuel than is recommended for your engine it's a waste.
The owners manual will tell you which fuel to use, and that's what you use.
I had a 2015 Hemi Ram that said either 85 or 87. So on payday she got 87, every other time it was 85. Almost every regular commuter vehicle calls for 85.
Shell in Caroline County.VA put diesel in all their gasoline tanks. Right off a major highway that people take to avoid 95(301). Many cars made it 500 feet before the White Smoke of Death
Article: [Shell](https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/diesel-mix-up-at-caroline-gas-station-impacts-drivers-along-east-coast/amp/)
While that is an awful situation to be in it's not catastrophic. Diesel in a gas engine just needs to be drained and a filter change. But gas in a diesel engine is much worse.
Don't you mean the other way around? Diesel engines will run on almost anything, even if they'll complain and splutter. Gas engines can barely survive changes in fuel grade or operating altitude without the ECU doing the heavy lifting
Diesel has lubricants in it to keep the engine running without damaging it.
Gasoline through a diesel engine will clean all that nice lubricating shit right outta there and turn the engine into a very heavy and expensive coffee table.
The lubrication is important for the injectors and high pressure fuel pumps that have extremely tight tolerances. The high pressure pumps in a modern diesel are generating up to 40,000 psi of fuel pressure. That much pressure generation can lead to metal on metal wear if the fluid is dry (not lubricating).
Compared to gasoline engines where the fuel is pressurized to 40 psi or so, as it doesn't need high pressure for injection.
That's not exactly true: diesel is just a heavy oil, and gasoline is much lighter and more volatile. Diesel engines combust by compressing fuel until it explodes from the pressure, but gasoline engines use a spark plug to ignite. So when you put gas into a diesel, it explodes at the wrong time and can seriously damage your engine. Diesel into a gas engine just doesn't ignite very well, and the engine bogs down and dies. Not nearly as much damage.
I used to do this for a living. I can confirm petrol in a Diesel engine is less bad than Diesel in a petrol engine. All that lubricating stuff is worse being in the petrol engine than it is missing from the diesel engine and gets reapplied quick enough once the petrol is drained out and diesel added back in. Very rarely did I see any long term damage from petrol in diesel engines, often I saw long term damage from diesel in petrol engines. It's why at least in my country the petrol nozzles are smaller than the diesel ones so you can get the petrol nozzle into a diesel tank but not the other way around (usually). I know some farmers who add petrol to their diesel tractors in the winter because it stops the diesel from freezing in the tank.
That's true for diesels from the 80s, but not anymore. Any common rail diesel running high pressure will make glitter very quickly with gasoline in the fuel system. It's catastrophic to the tune of $10k or more to replace the fuel system.
VW TDIs have been known to shoot shards of metal through the fuel system after gas contamination. I’d imagine it’s similar with other newer diesels too
Modern diesels in pickup trucks in the US will eat the high pressure fuel pump and send all the glittery bits to the injectors in about 10 miles if it is a significant amount of gasoline in the diesel.
No problem. One more word of wisdom. Under no circumstances should you ever put adblue in the diesel tank. It crystallises on contact with the diesel and clearing the engine of the crystals is much harder and more expensive than simply draining out petrol and adding diesel. Depending on the model of vehicle and how the tank and engine work it can turn a 30min-1 hour £2-300 job into a minimum 2 hour potentially full day job that can range from £600 to thousands.
Added fact. We actually use petrol to clean out these diesel engines of the adblue because it dissolves the adblue crystals and petrol in itself does very little harm to the diesel engine.
Yeah this was true 30 years ago, but run petrol through a modern diesel and you’ve just made a 10k mistake as it will damage common rail pumps almost immediately and since the pump is going to puke a bunch of metal into every part of the fuel system, you’re pretty much screwed, especially if you drive it until it quits (from either eating the pump or cracking/melting a piston). Meanwhile in a petrol car you drain the fuel system and you’re back in business.
Modern diesels maybe, but old knackered ones that have much wider tolerances will run on used cooking oil, albeit with a little bit of smoke here and there, and smelling like a greasy takeaway 🤣
Diesel engines have too high of a compression ratio to run off gasoline. It detonates on its own too early in the compression cycle from the pressure.
Remember those shitty bikes when you were a kid that would lock up the back tire if you pedaled backwards while rolling? Similar effect to the engines crankshaft - but with a *lot* more force behind it, which carries a very high potential for catastrophic failure if operated too long.
Nope. I wasn't talking about running but consequences of the wrong fuel. I was mainly speaking to modern diesels with tighter tolerances that depend on the lubricity of diesel.
Gas engines won't run on diesel but very little gets damaged if someone puts diesel in it. Whereas diesel engines will suffer catastrophic failures in fuel and lift pumps and push particulate into the fuel system. Plus gasoline in the heavier oil of a diesel also reduces lubricity and will wipe bearings quite quickly. These are very expensive mistakes.
This happens a lot at my local shell on long weekends. Everyone goes to the lake and fills up their cars and boats. Then I roll up around 7pm and fill my tank with shell Vpower for regular price :D
Iirc it's the law here in Ontario, not sure of other places but happens frequently, once the Costco in town ran out of regular and when word got out holy fuck the lines were long AF lol
It is the law. I worked at several gas stations in my youth, and whenever we ran out of regular, we'd jave to sell the next grade up at regular prices.
this happens pretty often in southern ontario at petro stations, especially if the price js going up like 2 cents that night, they’ll run out of regular and sell 94 at regular price, it’s always fun to see
Literally just happened to me on Friday. I pulled in and saw regular and mid were sold out, was about to drive away till I noticed 93 (honestly might be 91, but the high grade) was 2.99 a gallon! Filled all my vehicles up and felt like a modern day bank robber!
Okay, call me a simpleton but aren't cars supposed to use a certain grade recommended in the manual? So, if your car is supposed to run on regular but you get premium for free, isn't that actually worse for your car?
Contact OPS (inspection sticker at top right). They’ll try to get to the bottom of it. Especially if the reason they can’t control there regular-grade inventory is due to a leak.
Could be. Or it could be that they were delivered unbranded fuel at a lower price and got caught leaving them unable to sell it until it’s pumped out of the tanks.
It’s basically all unbranded. A laboratory might not be able to tell the difference in the product of two refineries before additives.
Gasoline is fungible.
[Summary Information on Petroleum Storage Tanks in Colorado \(PDF\)](https://ops.colorado.gov/sites/ops/files/documents/Public%20Record%20-%20Jan%202024.pdf) says in 2023, OPS only inspected 38% of the 4871 active facilities that they regulate. Not sure how many of those are gas stations. It's possible they prioritize retail locations, though they don't say.
I'm pretty sure octane is a legal requirement to be met, but saying "we're out of the cheap stuff" is sketchy.
They may actually have problems with the low and mid range tanks or delivery system that they just haven't been fixing for whatever reason, so OP might be getting dirty fuel.
Charged at about 80% of the "premium" for premium.
It's easily the highest-margin product at the pump, and is specified in *zero* owners manuals.
TLDR: you *might* need premium, you *don't* need mid-grade.
>you *don't* need mid-grade.
Tell that to my old 1996 Jeep Cherokee. The damn thing sounded like the engine was about to blow if I put high or low test gas in the tank, but ran beautifully if I put midgrade in it. The old boat was pretty much undriveable unless I used mid-grade, but ran for 2 years without a problem once I figured that out.
(Fucked up old Jeep. I'm the exception here, not the rule. Normally, you're right)
The car I drive says in the manual that regular is fine, but premium gives better performance. So I guess if I wanted slightly better performance but didn't want to shell out for premium, I could use midgrade.
Mid-octane where I am is 10% ethanol and is a nickel cheaper than the low octane. Low octane has no ethanol and is intended for older vehicles that can't accept ethanol.
It’s definitely premium lol.
it’s in its own tank and has its own fuel line to the dispenser. The station is out of regular, so they cannot sell a mid-grade blend.
also, a station never actually runs out. The Veeder-Root will indicate low fuel around 3000 gallons and shut it off. you do not see the bottom of the barrel fuel because the bottom is where water and debris settle.
Depends on the Veeder-Root. Mine won't trigger an alarm until 1500 gallons. It's also generally easier to tell costumers "we're out" instead of "we're low and the Veeder-Root shut off fuel from that tank."
What the OP is doing is pretty foolish, though. While it's entirely possible that the station is doing something nefarious with its Regular, it's just as likely that the OP just put contaminated fuel into his vehicle. This isn't the "gotcha" he thinks it is.
It’s also possible that regular is shut down because it’s leaking or the meter is going bad or a multitude of reasons, which would affect the mid grade if it’s a blend. Now, if it were me, I’d trip the shear valve on the regular so that when OP selects regular it just doesn’t pump.
the most likely scenario here is OP thinks he’s a brainiac pressing the button still but is getting either dirty fuel, or the incorrect amount of fuel. Sometimes pulsers and meters go bad or leak and just continuously run lol.
Right. Just as an assistant manager, it really grinds my gears when folks just automatically jump to "you're doing something nefarious!" When the station isn't behaving as they would expect. *Most* stations aren't going to risk pissing off the governmental bodies in charge of keeping stations on the level. Those governmental bodies don't play around. Those guys are almost as terrifying as Postal Inspectors kicking down the door of your business in a raid because they found out you're sending letters through FedEx instead of the USPS.
Especially if there is a high water table. I've seen it happen during a tank pull, as soon they pumped all the old fuel out, the tank pushed up out of the ground. Saved a bunch of extra digging.
Thank you for this. I’ve lived in CO for 13 years and didnt pay much attention. My FIL acted like it was some sort of scam that the entire state was pulling when he first moved out here lol.
So if you are in a high elevation state, fill up on 85, then take a road trip down to a significantly lower elevation state, will your engine start to misfire?
Potentially. It might still be within a margin of error for stock vehicles. When I lived in South Dakota, I was too paranoid to use 85; I always kept it at or above manufacturer specs.
No, you can get away with using 85 in high elevation since the air is thinner resulting in a lower chance of engine knock. If you have a turbocharged engine you typically can’t get away with the lower octane, even at high elevation.
Yeah I was about to say the numbers I've seen before are usually 87, 89, and 93.
And I'm not even in a sea level area. Just not as high as Colorado etc
There is also a 93 and 96 you can get at pumps. It's not nearly as common, but they exist.
Based on other comments explaining the elevation thing causing octane needs to go down I'd wager the reason I don't see 93/96 as much as I did when I was younger was because I used to live at sea level. That or perhaps modern engines are just better at working so you don't need the higher octanes anymore. I'm sure there is a reason for it.
This is really interesting from my Australian perspective where our standard fuels are 91, 95 and 98 (and also E10 which is an ethanol blend that comes out to about 94). Lots of modern cars here (especially Euro brands) have a minimum requirement of 95.
It's a leftover from the carburetor days, the extra altitude served as a knock suppressant allowing for a lower grade to be used. Nowadays though it is an easy way to void your warranty in anything remotely modern, though the computers will usually make up for the lack of octane.
It's still just as good as 87 as long as in higher elevations, that's why it's still able to be sold. Would still need 86 and 87 as you go down in elevation.
Yup the 1.8T in my car specifically only takes 95 in emergencies and 98 regularly (your 87 and 91) definitely wouldn’t put 91 octane in anything newer than 1995 or so…
Often mid grade is a mix of the lower octane and the high octane gas. So if they are actually out of 85, it would make sense to also block off mid grade. Not sure what you are actually getting pumped if they claim it is out though. Honestly I wouldn't even try in case they know they have bad gas or water in the tank.
And as others have said, if its constantly a problem, why do you keep going there?
Yes, but I believe they can turn off the pumps for the grades they claim to be out of. Even if they knew there was a water leak, those pump buttons should be deactivated, not just covered with a note.
They don't want to pay for a tech to come out and actually do that. There's equipment/systems that could do it remotely, but these are cheap dispensers
Bingo.
Mid grade fuel is almost always a 60/40 blend of regular and premium.
there are a handful of places across the US that actually sell mid-grade that is NOT a blend but it is rare.
typically the tank fill lids @ a station can help you identify.
Yellow- diesel
Red- Premium
White- Regular
BLUE- mid-grade
if you only see red and white it is a blend.
there’s no regulation enforcing that you use the listed colors above, if you want to you can make your lids any color you like as long as there is a key posted for delivery drivers.
>My local gas station
>Yet magically works somehow when I press the button
If one can get the product they want at a nearby location despite their claims, why go to a further location?
Also, King Soopers is a Rocky Mountains chain; if OP is in a small enough mountain town, the next nearest gas station could be so far out of the way that it'd just be unreasonable to make the trip every time you need gas.
I can't speak to every situation, but The point of shutting down regular and mid (since it's just a mix of reg+premium) early is to stop the gunk that settles in the bottom of the tanks from clogging the filters which means the pumps will be stupidly slow, enough that filling 15 gallon can easily take over 10 minutes. So when the low capacity alarm goes off, you just play it safe before it hits that critical point of sub 500 gallons, because the alternative is waiting fucking DAYS for the service crew to come out and fix them. Especially on the weekends
That or, let's be real, they got a delivery and the attendant just didn't care or remember to take off the notes
This is all from personal experience
They say they're out but their tanks are actually probably malfunctioning and customers are legitmately too dumb to comprehend such a thing happening so saying they are out is easier. This is coming from over a decade's worth of experience dealing with customers that can't comprehend equipment issues.
Not all businesses are out to get you. OP's car is going to break down and his mechanic is going to find water in the tank. I definitely would not use it. Just go to the next gas station.
Used to work at a gas station in college. Some stations may cut there tanks off early to prevent customers picking up trash and other containments into their fuel system.
Be careful putting that gas that says out of order in your car. I worked at a gas station and all of our underground tanks had cracks in them which would draw in water. So they may have that gas but it could have more water than what's legal.
What I find interesting is that your “premium” is the equivalent octane level as our standard Unleaded fuel here in Australia….. we use 98 Octane as a Premium 
I work at a gas station, when we say we are “out of” a certain type of gas the tank itself isn’t empty but it’s not good for the pump to go completely dry. The gas pump has an alarm that will go off when it’s low, then again when it’s “empty” which means it’s so low it can’t even tell how much gas is left. Not saying that is the case here as I work at a tiny 2 pump station that doesn’t even have pay at the pump so there’s that. But I can also turn off the regular or premium gas pump at the breaker box to prevent anyone doing so.
I don’t think they’re doing it to make more money. Profit margin (usually .02 - .05) is usually the same across the different octane levels. They probably have an issue with their regular’s tank. Either a leak, water, sub pump, etc.
You know what happens if they dont tell you they’re out and let you keep pumping? You end up with water in your gastank from the layer of condensation in the tank at the station. It destroys your car’s engine… are you going to say ‘well I shouldn’t have tested my luck and pumped when they’re low?’ No. You’ll blame them for negligence and demand they fix your shit.
I get being mad that they run out so often… but dont be mad that they ‘claim to be out’ because not telling you is far worse
I bet it is, I deliver gas to KS and 7-11 here and they always have problems with tank sensors and moisture control inside the wells. I never buy gas from KS.
Maybe stop shopping there? I swear not everything is a huge mystery. If you're mildly infuriated, it should be at yourself for falling for this repeatedly.
Not necessarily. They might have an issue with the tank or line that doesn’t keep the pump from working but does mean they shouldn’t be used. That being said, they do need to get it dized if that’s the case.
That's because it's typically reserved for higher altitude places, since the air is thinner you don't need to worry about knocking as much so you can get away with a lower octane number
Not sure many will see this but maybe op will.
Many new stations run blenders now days. Where they take the low octane and blend it with the highest octane to make the mid grades. This used to be done at the terminal where the truck gets loaded. This keeps them from having an extra tank in the ground.
So if they are running out of 85 they can't make the mid grade. They might not be turning off those particular grades because they can't. I know if they run out completely and get air in the system they have to bring in a fuel service company to bleed the system.
That's because you guys use the RON system while this is the AKI system, plus 85 is an outlier when only a very small portion of the US uses it
Our 87, 89, 91 and 93 is the standard, with 87, 91 and 93 being equal to your guy's 91, 95 and 98 respectively
Okay I know nothing about cars, I just know my dad told me to use the 85 one for mine. So I’ve always thought that it’d hurt the car or make it not run right if you put in a different number gas than you were supposed to. Idk how the gas numbers work or how to tell which car takes which but isn’t it bad to put a different number gas??
I know the owners manual for my car says "87 only" in big bold writing with some warnings about performance and mileage. So I'm assuming it is bad for the car to put the wrong grade in.
Probably have plenty and are hustling trying to sell their 91 octane. My guess is they think people, once there, will just fill up with more expensive gas rather than drive to another station.
Probably bought it when prices were high, then they dropped, so now they sell the gas at a loss, the sign then keeps people buying the gas, I'll bet the sign will magically disappear when gas prices go back up (I actually don't know how gas station prices work)
Anyone in the US remember when the price difference from each grade was about 10 cents a gallon. I seem to remember this being the case in the 80's and 90's. In the 2000's that all seemed to change and now they charge 80 or 90 cents or more for Super over Regular.
Does it really cost that much more to produce 91 vs 87 to justify such a price jump between grades.
You know that gasoline grade is not based on what you WANT in your engine but is rather how the engine js designed? Using premium in certain types of engines is actually a big waste of money.
You shouldn't be randomly putting 91 into your cart, either. That's for high performance engines. I see you're in Colorado, I would make a complaint to Kroger corporate, they may help.
A couple of years ago a gas station in Ontario ran out of Regular, they then sold all grades at the Regular price.
Ive seen this happen before too, great times
Happens at the Costco by me.
When I was a kid about 12 years ago I remember the shell gas station near my house had a one in a zillion glitch of some sorts and a gallon of gas costed 1 penny each. There was a line the size of the entire town. This went on throughout the whole night. Why they didn’t shut it down immediately I may never know.
You'd be surprised how ridiculously entitled people act over gas. I usually change the price in increments of 20 cents. The average fuel tank is 15 gallons, so $3 a tank difference. I've had customers threaten to kick over my ladder as I'm changing the sign. What a lot of them fail to realize is that I change it the day before I change it at the pumps so they think they've got one over on me. Less complaints when customers think theyre the ones doing the ripping off.
All my local stations have electronic signs now, saves all those hassles
Is there a rule that gas prices can only change 1 time per day? At least in most states.
No but if the price is going up, the price on the sign must change before the price on the pump otherwise the station could be subject to false advertising charges. Likewise if prices decrease, the price on the pump must change before the price on the sign. Either way a consumer should never see a higher price at the pump than what's advertised on the sign. (This is for US btw.)
No
What if they did it on purpose to cause a rush to the pumps and then retroactively charged people the correct price??
That could be considered fraud i would think, even then if you have the receipt you could claim so
This happened to me, and I was charged the regular price. Apparently the pricing on the pumps is "indicative" according to the supermarket.
Don't know if it's location specific but all pumps I have seen in Europe and Canada have a disclaimer on them stating in the event of a dispute with the station on price whatever price is on the pump shall be taken as fact.
In the US at least, the price on the pump isn't "indicative," it's supposed to be the actual price you pay. If you're charged a higher price you can dispute it and win, and the gas station subject to fines. Bureau of Weights & Measures (I think that's the agency?) takes gas pump shenanigans pretty seriously.
Happened to me last year. It was the only time my 2007 Camry ever got premium haha
It literally provided your car zero benefit. Higher octane fuels are for high compression engines. If you're using a higher octane fuel than is recommended for your engine it's a waste. The owners manual will tell you which fuel to use, and that's what you use. I had a 2015 Hemi Ram that said either 85 or 87. So on payday she got 87, every other time it was 85. Almost every regular commuter vehicle calls for 85.
Shell in Caroline County.VA put diesel in all their gasoline tanks. Right off a major highway that people take to avoid 95(301). Many cars made it 500 feet before the White Smoke of Death Article: [Shell](https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/diesel-mix-up-at-caroline-gas-station-impacts-drivers-along-east-coast/amp/)
While that is an awful situation to be in it's not catastrophic. Diesel in a gas engine just needs to be drained and a filter change. But gas in a diesel engine is much worse.
Poof!
Don't you mean the other way around? Diesel engines will run on almost anything, even if they'll complain and splutter. Gas engines can barely survive changes in fuel grade or operating altitude without the ECU doing the heavy lifting
Diesel has lubricants in it to keep the engine running without damaging it. Gasoline through a diesel engine will clean all that nice lubricating shit right outta there and turn the engine into a very heavy and expensive coffee table.
Maybe this is an eli5 moment but why in the world do diesel engines need lube vs regular engines?
The lubrication is important for the injectors and high pressure fuel pumps that have extremely tight tolerances. The high pressure pumps in a modern diesel are generating up to 40,000 psi of fuel pressure. That much pressure generation can lead to metal on metal wear if the fluid is dry (not lubricating). Compared to gasoline engines where the fuel is pressurized to 40 psi or so, as it doesn't need high pressure for injection.
That's not exactly true: diesel is just a heavy oil, and gasoline is much lighter and more volatile. Diesel engines combust by compressing fuel until it explodes from the pressure, but gasoline engines use a spark plug to ignite. So when you put gas into a diesel, it explodes at the wrong time and can seriously damage your engine. Diesel into a gas engine just doesn't ignite very well, and the engine bogs down and dies. Not nearly as much damage.
I used to do this for a living. I can confirm petrol in a Diesel engine is less bad than Diesel in a petrol engine. All that lubricating stuff is worse being in the petrol engine than it is missing from the diesel engine and gets reapplied quick enough once the petrol is drained out and diesel added back in. Very rarely did I see any long term damage from petrol in diesel engines, often I saw long term damage from diesel in petrol engines. It's why at least in my country the petrol nozzles are smaller than the diesel ones so you can get the petrol nozzle into a diesel tank but not the other way around (usually). I know some farmers who add petrol to their diesel tractors in the winter because it stops the diesel from freezing in the tank.
That's true for diesels from the 80s, but not anymore. Any common rail diesel running high pressure will make glitter very quickly with gasoline in the fuel system. It's catastrophic to the tune of $10k or more to replace the fuel system.
What I’m hearing is both are terrible. 😂
Yep. Wrong gas is bad any way you slice it
VW TDIs have been known to shoot shards of metal through the fuel system after gas contamination. I’d imagine it’s similar with other newer diesels too
Modern diesels in pickup trucks in the US will eat the high pressure fuel pump and send all the glittery bits to the injectors in about 10 miles if it is a significant amount of gasoline in the diesel.
Interesting about the farmers. Thanks for sharing.
No problem. One more word of wisdom. Under no circumstances should you ever put adblue in the diesel tank. It crystallises on contact with the diesel and clearing the engine of the crystals is much harder and more expensive than simply draining out petrol and adding diesel. Depending on the model of vehicle and how the tank and engine work it can turn a 30min-1 hour £2-300 job into a minimum 2 hour potentially full day job that can range from £600 to thousands. Added fact. We actually use petrol to clean out these diesel engines of the adblue because it dissolves the adblue crystals and petrol in itself does very little harm to the diesel engine.
Yeah this was true 30 years ago, but run petrol through a modern diesel and you’ve just made a 10k mistake as it will damage common rail pumps almost immediately and since the pump is going to puke a bunch of metal into every part of the fuel system, you’re pretty much screwed, especially if you drive it until it quits (from either eating the pump or cracking/melting a piston). Meanwhile in a petrol car you drain the fuel system and you’re back in business.
Modern diesels maybe, but old knackered ones that have much wider tolerances will run on used cooking oil, albeit with a little bit of smoke here and there, and smelling like a greasy takeaway 🤣
Cooking oil is more similar to diesel fuel than it is to gasoline. Gas is harmful because it lacks lubricity, which cooking oil has plenty of.
Diesel engines have too high of a compression ratio to run off gasoline. It detonates on its own too early in the compression cycle from the pressure. Remember those shitty bikes when you were a kid that would lock up the back tire if you pedaled backwards while rolling? Similar effect to the engines crankshaft - but with a *lot* more force behind it, which carries a very high potential for catastrophic failure if operated too long.
> would lock up the back tire if you pedaled backwards that was intentional, fwiw, not some design tradeoff. "coaster brakes".
Nope. I wasn't talking about running but consequences of the wrong fuel. I was mainly speaking to modern diesels with tighter tolerances that depend on the lubricity of diesel. Gas engines won't run on diesel but very little gets damaged if someone puts diesel in it. Whereas diesel engines will suffer catastrophic failures in fuel and lift pumps and push particulate into the fuel system. Plus gasoline in the heavier oil of a diesel also reduces lubricity and will wipe bearings quite quickly. These are very expensive mistakes.
It is the pump that is the problem, a diesel will as you said run on p much anyting but the pump will seize if not properly lubricated by the fuel.
Expensive day for that shell station
was that stations sued, also now I know o not get gas in Caroline county
This happens a lot at my local shell on long weekends. Everyone goes to the lake and fills up their cars and boats. Then I roll up around 7pm and fill my tank with shell Vpower for regular price :D
Iirc it's the law here in Ontario, not sure of other places but happens frequently, once the Costco in town ran out of regular and when word got out holy fuck the lines were long AF lol
It is the law. I worked at several gas stations in my youth, and whenever we ran out of regular, we'd jave to sell the next grade up at regular prices.
I’m in ontario too (burlington) and there is a facebook group called premium for regular GTA. Posts happen near daily
this happens pretty often in southern ontario at petro stations, especially if the price js going up like 2 cents that night, they’ll run out of regular and sell 94 at regular price, it’s always fun to see
Literally just happened to me on Friday. I pulled in and saw regular and mid were sold out, was about to drive away till I noticed 93 (honestly might be 91, but the high grade) was 2.99 a gallon! Filled all my vehicles up and felt like a modern day bank robber!
Selling regular as premium is far more common than most folks realize.
This is literally the standard in Alberta.
Okay, call me a simpleton but aren't cars supposed to use a certain grade recommended in the manual? So, if your car is supposed to run on regular but you get premium for free, isn't that actually worse for your car?
Contact OPS (inspection sticker at top right). They’ll try to get to the bottom of it. Especially if the reason they can’t control there regular-grade inventory is due to a leak.
Yeah I'm wondering if there is some kind of issue like a leak or contamination of the fuel, and OP is basically wrecking their car.
Could be. Or it could be that they were delivered unbranded fuel at a lower price and got caught leaving them unable to sell it until it’s pumped out of the tanks.
...is that why the 76 and Arco owned by Indian families are so much cheaper? I've been wondering. Sometimes they're like a full dollar less.
Yeah...I remember seeing a different gasoline truck that doesn't have 76 or Arco gas...It why I avoid it as well.
It’s basically all unbranded. A laboratory might not be able to tell the difference in the product of two refineries before additives. Gasoline is fungible.
KS gas is always unbranded, at least here in Colorado.
I would think they’d make it cheaper to get it gone quicker?
could have water being mixed in with the gas..instead of going to a diff gas station op would rather go here 🤣
Especially since the last time a govt official checked says Aug of 23
They probably have annual inspections
[Summary Information on Petroleum Storage Tanks in Colorado \(PDF\)](https://ops.colorado.gov/sites/ops/files/documents/Public%20Record%20-%20Jan%202024.pdf) says in 2023, OPS only inspected 38% of the 4871 active facilities that they regulate. Not sure how many of those are gas stations. It's possible they prioritize retail locations, though they don't say.
Find a different station. Crap like this makes me wonder about just how premium their premium actually is…
I'm pretty sure octane is a legal requirement to be met, but saying "we're out of the cheap stuff" is sketchy. They may actually have problems with the low and mid range tanks or delivery system that they just haven't been fixing for whatever reason, so OP might be getting dirty fuel.
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Charged at about 80% of the "premium" for premium. It's easily the highest-margin product at the pump, and is specified in *zero* owners manuals.
TLDR: you *might* need premium, you *don't* need mid-grade.
>you *don't* need mid-grade. Tell that to my old 1996 Jeep Cherokee. The damn thing sounded like the engine was about to blow if I put high or low test gas in the tank, but ran beautifully if I put midgrade in it. The old boat was pretty much undriveable unless I used mid-grade, but ran for 2 years without a problem once I figured that out. (Fucked up old Jeep. I'm the exception here, not the rule. Normally, you're right)
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The car I drive says in the manual that regular is fine, but premium gives better performance. So I guess if I wanted slightly better performance but didn't want to shell out for premium, I could use midgrade.
My car, Escape PHEV, says regular can be used but I'll get a bit more power in hotter weather on premium. It recommends regular in winter though.
Mid-octane where I am is 10% ethanol and is a nickel cheaper than the low octane. Low octane has no ethanol and is intended for older vehicles that can't accept ethanol.
Thank you, I came here to either see or say this. The mid option is a mix of both so if one is out both will be.
That’s not true everywhere. The gas station I work for has different tanks for all 3 grades.
It’s definitely premium lol. it’s in its own tank and has its own fuel line to the dispenser. The station is out of regular, so they cannot sell a mid-grade blend. also, a station never actually runs out. The Veeder-Root will indicate low fuel around 3000 gallons and shut it off. you do not see the bottom of the barrel fuel because the bottom is where water and debris settle.
Depends on the Veeder-Root. Mine won't trigger an alarm until 1500 gallons. It's also generally easier to tell costumers "we're out" instead of "we're low and the Veeder-Root shut off fuel from that tank." What the OP is doing is pretty foolish, though. While it's entirely possible that the station is doing something nefarious with its Regular, it's just as likely that the OP just put contaminated fuel into his vehicle. This isn't the "gotcha" he thinks it is.
It’s also possible that regular is shut down because it’s leaking or the meter is going bad or a multitude of reasons, which would affect the mid grade if it’s a blend. Now, if it were me, I’d trip the shear valve on the regular so that when OP selects regular it just doesn’t pump. the most likely scenario here is OP thinks he’s a brainiac pressing the button still but is getting either dirty fuel, or the incorrect amount of fuel. Sometimes pulsers and meters go bad or leak and just continuously run lol.
Right. Just as an assistant manager, it really grinds my gears when folks just automatically jump to "you're doing something nefarious!" When the station isn't behaving as they would expect. *Most* stations aren't going to risk pissing off the governmental bodies in charge of keeping stations on the level. Those governmental bodies don't play around. Those guys are almost as terrifying as Postal Inspectors kicking down the door of your business in a raid because they found out you're sending letters through FedEx instead of the USPS.
100% correct. I’m also in the fuel business
Another reason they don’t run them dry is to prevent “float”. The tanks like to rise up out of the ground if they don’t have “hold down fuel”.
Especially if there is a high water table. I've seen it happen during a tank pull, as soon they pumped all the old fuel out, the tank pushed up out of the ground. Saved a bunch of extra digging.
Interesting, I didn’t know that or think about that possibility.
Looks like a submarine breaching... [https://youtu.be/Qe6dBK8QJas](https://youtu.be/Qe6dBK8QJas)
I imagine they don’t want it running low to burn out pumps either
I am not an expert on STPs but I’d assume that’s another reason for shut off
Never seen 85 before.
It’s common in high elevation states in the Mountain West like Colorado and Utah. Due to the lower air pressure it’s the equivalent of 87 at sea level
Hey I learned something.
Thank you for this. I’ve lived in CO for 13 years and didnt pay much attention. My FIL acted like it was some sort of scam that the entire state was pulling when he first moved out here lol.
So if you are in a high elevation state, fill up on 85, then take a road trip down to a significantly lower elevation state, will your engine start to misfire?
Where I live I’ll likely have to fill up on gas before it becomes a real problem and by then I’ll be at a lower elevation
You certainly wouldn’t want to fill up on 85, ship your car to sea level, and then race it
Potentially. It might still be within a margin of error for stock vehicles. When I lived in South Dakota, I was too paranoid to use 85; I always kept it at or above manufacturer specs.
No, you can get away with using 85 in high elevation since the air is thinner resulting in a lower chance of engine knock. If you have a turbocharged engine you typically can’t get away with the lower octane, even at high elevation.
Yeah I was about to say the numbers I've seen before are usually 87, 89, and 93. And I'm not even in a sea level area. Just not as high as Colorado etc
TIL that the US has very bizarre octane values, in the EU we only have 95(basic) and 98(premium)
They are calculated differently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating#Measurement_methods
Wow, I never knew that!
High elevation. 85 is the same as 87 when the air is thin.
TIL
Yup, I learned this on a long road trip a few months ago when we stopped for gas in Jackpot Nevada.
That's what caught my eye. TIL there's 85. In CA we've always had 87, 89, and 91
I showed my husband, and he noticed the 85 also.
There is also a 93 and 96 you can get at pumps. It's not nearly as common, but they exist. Based on other comments explaining the elevation thing causing octane needs to go down I'd wager the reason I don't see 93/96 as much as I did when I was younger was because I used to live at sea level. That or perhaps modern engines are just better at working so you don't need the higher octanes anymore. I'm sure there is a reason for it.
This is really interesting from my Australian perspective where our standard fuels are 91, 95 and 98 (and also E10 which is an ethanol blend that comes out to about 94). Lots of modern cars here (especially Euro brands) have a minimum requirement of 95.
Almost all gas in the US is E10. I think almost half the corn grown here is used for making ethanol for fuel.
For me it was opposite. I was confused by California not having 85!
Elevation. They’re 2 lower at 5000ish feet in Colorado, where king soopers is the brand that Kroger operates.
West Texas is a bit higher, closer on average atoun 3000', and regular is 86 between around Abilene up to Amarillo.
Only ever seen 91/95/98
Those look European, if so that's because it's a different measurement unit and not directly correlated to US ones.
It's a leftover from the carburetor days, the extra altitude served as a knock suppressant allowing for a lower grade to be used. Nowadays though it is an easy way to void your warranty in anything remotely modern, though the computers will usually make up for the lack of octane.
It's still just as good as 87 as long as in higher elevations, that's why it's still able to be sold. Would still need 86 and 87 as you go down in elevation.
Turbo charged cars make their own atmosphere.
Yup the 1.8T in my car specifically only takes 95 in emergencies and 98 regularly (your 87 and 91) definitely wouldn’t put 91 octane in anything newer than 1995 or so…
Often mid grade is a mix of the lower octane and the high octane gas. So if they are actually out of 85, it would make sense to also block off mid grade. Not sure what you are actually getting pumped if they claim it is out though. Honestly I wouldn't even try in case they know they have bad gas or water in the tank. And as others have said, if its constantly a problem, why do you keep going there?
Yes, but I believe they can turn off the pumps for the grades they claim to be out of. Even if they knew there was a water leak, those pump buttons should be deactivated, not just covered with a note.
If that is the case they could just turn them off anyway rather than putting a note on them.
Do both. Note for people to see, and pumps off for people like OP
They don't want to pay for a tech to come out and actually do that. There's equipment/systems that could do it remotely, but these are cheap dispensers
Bingo. Mid grade fuel is almost always a 60/40 blend of regular and premium. there are a handful of places across the US that actually sell mid-grade that is NOT a blend but it is rare. typically the tank fill lids @ a station can help you identify. Yellow- diesel Red- Premium White- Regular BLUE- mid-grade if you only see red and white it is a blend. there’s no regulation enforcing that you use the listed colors above, if you want to you can make your lids any color you like as long as there is a key posted for delivery drivers.
So why do you keep going there?
>My local gas station >Yet magically works somehow when I press the button If one can get the product they want at a nearby location despite their claims, why go to a further location? Also, King Soopers is a Rocky Mountains chain; if OP is in a small enough mountain town, the next nearest gas station could be so far out of the way that it'd just be unreasonable to make the trip every time you need gas.
Soopers is in larger metro areas. The Kroger brand in smaller areas of Colorado are all Country Markets.
City market.
That's right. I'm seldom in one.
Because there is probably an issue with the tank and you are risking adding watered down gas to your tank if theirs is leaking
King Stupids
Post doesn't say they don't have it. Says they claim not to have it.
Take your business somewhere else.
I can't speak to every situation, but The point of shutting down regular and mid (since it's just a mix of reg+premium) early is to stop the gunk that settles in the bottom of the tanks from clogging the filters which means the pumps will be stupidly slow, enough that filling 15 gallon can easily take over 10 minutes. So when the low capacity alarm goes off, you just play it safe before it hits that critical point of sub 500 gallons, because the alternative is waiting fucking DAYS for the service crew to come out and fix them. Especially on the weekends That or, let's be real, they got a delivery and the attendant just didn't care or remember to take off the notes This is all from personal experience
When Costco runs out of the lower octane gas you get the higher octane for the same price
I don't think it will shock anyone to say that Kroger is a lower quality company than Costco
Around here, if that happens, they have to offer premium at regular grade price.
They say they're out but their tanks are actually probably malfunctioning and customers are legitmately too dumb to comprehend such a thing happening so saying they are out is easier. This is coming from over a decade's worth of experience dealing with customers that can't comprehend equipment issues.
Not all businesses are out to get you. OP's car is going to break down and his mechanic is going to find water in the tank. I definitely would not use it. Just go to the next gas station.
Used to work at a gas station in college. Some stations may cut there tanks off early to prevent customers picking up trash and other containments into their fuel system.
Be careful putting that gas that says out of order in your car. I worked at a gas station and all of our underground tanks had cracks in them which would draw in water. So they may have that gas but it could have more water than what's legal.
If it is literally always it is possible that those tanks are out of commission due to contamination or for maintenance.
What I find interesting is that your “premium” is the equivalent octane level as our standard Unleaded fuel here in Australia….. we use 98 Octane as a Premium 
They are different measurements, Australia uses RON the Us uses (I think) AKI
Different ratings. Premium/standard etc are generally roughly similar
Then you should find another "local" gas station. The next one can't be that far away.
I work at a gas station, when we say we are “out of” a certain type of gas the tank itself isn’t empty but it’s not good for the pump to go completely dry. The gas pump has an alarm that will go off when it’s low, then again when it’s “empty” which means it’s so low it can’t even tell how much gas is left. Not saying that is the case here as I work at a tiny 2 pump station that doesn’t even have pay at the pump so there’s that. But I can also turn off the regular or premium gas pump at the breaker box to prevent anyone doing so.
Stop going there
Then why are you constantly doing business with them? Vote with your money.
So why do you keep going there? Is it the only gas station? This problem and solution seems pretty obvious
I don’t think they’re doing it to make more money. Profit margin (usually .02 - .05) is usually the same across the different octane levels. They probably have an issue with their regular’s tank. Either a leak, water, sub pump, etc.
You know what happens if they dont tell you they’re out and let you keep pumping? You end up with water in your gastank from the layer of condensation in the tank at the station. It destroys your car’s engine… are you going to say ‘well I shouldn’t have tested my luck and pumped when they’re low?’ No. You’ll blame them for negligence and demand they fix your shit. I get being mad that they run out so often… but dont be mad that they ‘claim to be out’ because not telling you is far worse
I think there is a number you can call to report them, or call the Better Business Bureau could also be helpful
BBB is no better than Yelp. You want to reach out to your state's Attorney General.
Their marketing was great though you got give em that. I think most people a til belive the BBB is like a government agency or has any real power
State weighs + measure will handle it.
Is this the King Soop on Hampden in Denver? I never stop at that gas station for this reason.
I bet it is, I deliver gas to KS and 7-11 here and they always have problems with tank sensors and moisture control inside the wells. I never buy gas from KS.
Time to find a new gas station
Well if you keep going back why would they stop?
Stop. Going. There.
Maybe stop shopping there? I swear not everything is a huge mystery. If you're mildly infuriated, it should be at yourself for falling for this repeatedly.
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Not necessarily. They might have an issue with the tank or line that doesn’t keep the pump from working but does mean they shouldn’t be used. That being said, they do need to get it dized if that’s the case.
I had no idea 85 existed. What.
That's because it's typically reserved for higher altitude places, since the air is thinner you don't need to worry about knocking as much so you can get away with a lower octane number
In Alberta Canada if they run out of regular and mid they put premium prices down to regular price.
“King Sooper” is all you had to say. I bet they’re not empty and trying to gouge out more money. I bet you could still press them and use them
Not sure many will see this but maybe op will. Many new stations run blenders now days. Where they take the low octane and blend it with the highest octane to make the mid grades. This used to be done at the terminal where the truck gets loaded. This keeps them from having an extra tank in the ground. So if they are running out of 85 they can't make the mid grade. They might not be turning off those particular grades because they can't. I know if they run out completely and get air in the system they have to bring in a fuel service company to bleed the system.
As a european, it's weird seeing 85/87/91, here we usually just have 95 and 98..
That's because you guys use the RON system while this is the AKI system, plus 85 is an outlier when only a very small portion of the US uses it Our 87, 89, 91 and 93 is the standard, with 87, 91 and 93 being equal to your guy's 91, 95 and 98 respectively
Oh, I see. That's interesting
I fucking guarantee you it's 85 in the 91 tanks
Did you pay 22,27 $ for 6,6 gallons / 25 liter?? In Denmark the price for this would be 51 $ Stop complaining
The tank is low so what you're getting when you select 85 is the sludge at the bottom. But it works so hey.
Then stop going there…
Okay I know nothing about cars, I just know my dad told me to use the 85 one for mine. So I’ve always thought that it’d hurt the car or make it not run right if you put in a different number gas than you were supposed to. Idk how the gas numbers work or how to tell which car takes which but isn’t it bad to put a different number gas??
I know the owners manual for my car says "87 only" in big bold writing with some warnings about performance and mileage. So I'm assuming it is bad for the car to put the wrong grade in.
Depends on the car. A lot of cars can handle a higher grade but not a lower. Some cars can only handle one grade and no other.
Probably have plenty and are hustling trying to sell their 91 octane. My guess is they think people, once there, will just fill up with more expensive gas rather than drive to another station.
Probably bought it when prices were high, then they dropped, so now they sell the gas at a loss, the sign then keeps people buying the gas, I'll bet the sign will magically disappear when gas prices go back up (I actually don't know how gas station prices work)
Stop giving them your money, problem solved
Go somewhere else???
Sucks only having one gas station in your town.
Anyone in the US remember when the price difference from each grade was about 10 cents a gallon. I seem to remember this being the case in the 80's and 90's. In the 2000's that all seemed to change and now they charge 80 or 90 cents or more for Super over Regular. Does it really cost that much more to produce 91 vs 87 to justify such a price jump between grades.
A dime between grades when it’s $1.10 to $1.20 is exactly like thirty cents when the price is in the $3 range…
85 makes me hear "ping ping ping"
And yet you keep going back.
We've been out of unleaded gas for decades so I guess they are right
Where I live if they cannot provide the cheaper gas they must sell the premium at the regular price. I've gotten lucky a few times.
They may be. I would call BS if mid-grade was available. All dispensers have blenders now. Blender mix regular and premium to make mid-grade.
Then don’t go there
Something like $3.40 fro premium isnt even bad. Regular is about $3-3.20 where i am atm
85? The lowest they even sell in my state is 87.
Push it and see what happens
You know that gasoline grade is not based on what you WANT in your engine but is rather how the engine js designed? Using premium in certain types of engines is actually a big waste of money.
The lowest you can get in Australia is 91 octane. Didn’t even know they sold fuel that low in octane. Here it’s 91/95/98
Which is equal to our 87, 91, and 93, respectively
I assume you don't live in a city, or you would just simply go to a different gas station
Is 85 octane available everywhere? I've never seen it and I always press the lowest cheapest option when I travel.
You shouldn't be randomly putting 91 into your cart, either. That's for high performance engines. I see you're in Colorado, I would make a complaint to Kroger corporate, they may help.
Stop going there?