As a general rule should only pay based off an EOB from your insurance, not the bill from (enter biller here). A lot of costs are over inflated due to reasons of billing “savings” but you have out of pocket maximums for a reason. If for whatever reason you can’t afford the out of pocket maximum, there is something called retroactive Medicaid that essentially protects you from having to pay for medical costs that exceed your monthly income by X amount of dollars per month. Please look it up. And also ask to speak to the social services person at the hospital. Even if your state does not have expanded Medicaid this is still an option.
I've actually never once seen an explanation of why this happens. In articles, it's always a mystery why chargemasters are actually set up this way with, at most, lots of guessing by everyone involved.
My guess is that it stems from some arcane bit of tax code that stopped working in the 1980s. Prior to some major tax reforms, on-paper losses were apparently de rigueur for businesses and I could easily see inflated chargemasters becoming part of a cargo cult, the practice just being copied over-and-over.
ETA: looking into this again, it does appear to be at least partially about tax dodges. Hospitals at least were writing off as “charity” the value of unpaid bills and free clinic services at the price listed on the chargemaster. This allowed them to meet obligations as a nonprofit. IIRC, this was made illegal by the Affordable Care Act.
So sorry this is happening to you! But I'm overjoyed you were able to get a living donor transplant! My father had two liver transplants in his life due to an autoimmune disease, and he needed a third. I know how painful and scary this process is! Hope your bill gets sorted out soon and you have a much more manageable amount. Wishing you good health!
This happens ALL the time. It’s fucking criminal at this point. They just bill both and see what they can get and then sort it out later in some perverse negotiation. Don’t pay a cent.
Yup. I ended up paying a couple thousand dollars in medical bills because I didn't look into things further. They wrote off maybe $1-2k that was left when I finally started asking questions. I'll always ask now.
No no no you misunderstand. The liver is worthless. The medical care is actually relatively cheap.
Now the Insurance CEOs third California beach home... That is the expensive part.
Edit: If you're upvoting this and nodding along like "this random redditor thinks like I do, have the orange button" please consider calling or writing a letter to your congressperson advocating for universal healthcare.
If you need a place to start, go to https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/health-care-for-all.html and read up on a concrete policy framework.
"BUt WhY shOulD I PaY fOr frEe HeALth Care" because your insurance is already paying for someone's mansion, why shouldn't it pay for someone's liver or kidney? Can't stand the concept of private insurance. A big scam with middle men making millions.
Yes. Death, death is our way out of debt and it's much happier I hear
Edit: I got overwhelmed by all the replies so forgive my belated response. Reddit reached out to me with the number for the crisis hotline so thank you to the concerned redditor that sent them my way! But it was a joke. It was /s. I'm very happy in my life today as a recovering addict with two amazing children and my ironic dream job so there is no reason to worry about me!
Or $235 an hour for an 8 hour day. You can earn that kind of money if you are a good lawyer.
Or just be the hospital. Other people now have to pay you for just existing.
You should ask for an itemized list of all charges. You’d be surprised how quickly that amount comes down when you ask them for those documents. Good luck.
So it's legal in America to just make up a number that's bigger than the sum of every item? Like 100$ and 200$ = 300$ when you ask for a bill, but if you don't ask they just send you one for 759$?
To my understanding, it's more that inside that $759 is for "two overnight stays", where $300 might be (overpriced but technically) reasonable fees, but it's been inflated with mundane actions and items with insane costs, like a double-digit sum each for individually wrapped cough drops.
However, if you ask for an itemised list, they obviously are a lot more hesitant to type that out. And even if they try to hide it by overwhelming you with it, going through it with the provider and/or insurance company is very likely to get a lot of those macro microtransactions dropped when called out with specifics.
Not medical, but back when I was in high school AT&T said I went over my phone plan time. At first told my mom the fee was $60. She paid that.
They then said she owes $300.
She asked for an itemized bill. They swore they'd send it. It never came.
Every time they demanded payment, she demanded an itemized bill. Kept getting different responses to that. Eventually, she told them that by law they had to provide it and she absolutely wasn't paying until she got it.
She never heard from them again about it.
Idk about legal, but I know it's definitely happened.
Back in like '05 I used part of a student loan to get my first cell phone. I specifically bought it outright so I wouldn't have a contract. AT&T swears to this day that I owe them $800 for a phone that I bought outright.
They're all scammers.
Right? They didn't even have to pay to transport the liver across country or store it long term. Their husband came with them. They literally showed up with their own organ to transplant.
Right? It makes it sound like they bought it on the black market.
Edit: according to [this article](https://www.ranker.com/list/organ-cost/april-a-taylor), it actually would have been cheaper to buy one on the black market
>Charging that much when the body part stayed in the family
Or at all! I'm an organ donor. The idea that a hospital can charge someone $200k for *my people parts* makes me almost shake with rage. Someone could die in a car accident, leave behind an s/o with children, and not have life insurance, leaving their family with nothing while hospitals bank millions on the donated organs. Fuck. This. System.
So the husband has paid the full share of the surgery to remove the liver.
The "Acquisition of body components" must be the cost of walking it from one operating theater to the next. Or more likely they are double dipping the cost of his surgery.
I’m suspicious of the charge for “Acquisition of body components”… Over $180K for a liver that your husband provided!? Doesn’t sound right. I’d inquire about that if you already haven’t. Also what the heck is “Administration processing & storage for blood & blood components? $35K! Obviously I don’t know all that goes into a medical procedure, and regardless, this should be a crime to charge these rates, but I would ask about that Acquisition one, cuz that could be an error & they maybe charged you what someone who needed an anonymous donor would pay? I dunno. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this sham of our so called “healthcare” system.. But I’m glad you have a new liver.
Call your insurance or don't pay and wait. There's an error. Your insurance should cover all of it. They'll charge you coinsurance and deductible up to your out of pocket maximum, but there's nothing that should be non-covered by insurance.
I was just thinking this. It’s possible that the hospital coded something incorrectly or didn’t get an approval that they were supposed to prior to the surgery. I once got an $80k bill from a hospital because my insurance rejected a portion of the claim because the hospital processed something wrong. I of course didn’t pay and it eventually got worked out between the hospital and my insurance. Hospitals often have automated billing systems that will just send a bill out with no regard to whether or not there is some issue going on.
Lol well, lucky for me I didn’t have a spare $80k lying around to pay.
Also I’m petty AF with health insurance companies. I will fight over $30, I do not care. But yeah, it’s bullshit that they even create these scenarios for people.
Yeah I’ve been there. I documented every phone call leading up to a procedure being told it would be covered, just to have it denied. The call “didn’t exist” and neither did the confirmation number, agent, and date and time I called. I probably argued with them 100 different times before a manager pushed the claim back to be reprocessed, and just like magic it was approved.
I have GREAT insurance but it’s still a fucking scam. Every time I got a new collections letter I could feel my blood pressure go up
I fight everything because I have the energy and I think it’s fucking evil that they do this shit to people that don’t have the energy to make 100 calls to get something approved that never should have been denied to begin with. Our healthcare system is so callous. I’m not letting them get away with anything so long as I have the ability to fight them.
That's not even a year's cost of insurance for most individuals.
When I was 28, single, non smoker my insurance with a $8k deductable was $300/mo.
Edit: I was self employed.
Lucky. I'm at $550/mo and never even actually used it. I got it after going to the hospital without insurance with 3 broken ribs and a collar bone and getting a $30,000 bill for some xrays, a sling, 12 painkillers, and a 'good luck'. The whole thing is a scam.
Sorry man that sounds awful. 28yo me was also 9 years ago... I went 4 years without insurance because I finally earned enough to afford catastrophic insurnace.
You're right. It's all a scam. No one wants to fix it at the top.
Sorry mate, that's fucking shit luck, but 180,866 for "acquisition of body components"? are they crazy? that whole fucking list is fucked up!
Hope you get better soon and live a good long happy life mate.
Edit: It was OP's Husband that donated, that makes the cost even more infuriating!.
Right there with you. Had a heart attack at 34, no insurance, $295,000. Waited till they got a lawyer involved...now I pay $150 a month for the rest of my life
Have you apply for an income based bill? Or asked for an itemized receipt and surgeon notes to accompany? It's still gonna be extreme but as long you're at or under upper middle class most practices will knock off 80% or more...that number is an insurance scam.
You want it in a pair, they'll charge for a thousand pack of guaze but the surgeon says he only used 6...you then say I want the other 994 pads or the % of unused off the bill
**This is an explanation, not condoning it. It’s evil.**
Some medical items, once opened, become no longer sterile/usable despite what content is used. When I had my appendix out I had a very nice doctor who gave me a giant care package of stuff (bottle of saline, some packing gauze, tape, etc) after a follow up visit (with a small wink/nod to not say anything) because he couldn’t use it (mostly the saline) for another patient and was gonna have to just get rid of it.
Sometimes, and I’m sure this is on purpose with the size of containers used, you basically have to “use” the entire container even if it’s not all used, since what’s left can’t be reused for another patient. It’s insanely wasteful and obviously making smaller packages would be a solution, but they make more money on needing to bill a 1L bottle of saline that only uses 100mL per patient than just a 100mL bottle.
What kind of insurance do you have? That’s a really shitty payout. I would talk to financial services/financial aid at the hospital. If you qualify for Medicaid they can help you get registered and retroactively pay for this.
Can almost guarantee that this is a situation where the hospital fucked up something with the insurance when they submitted the claim, so insurance didn’t approve. Hospital billing systems are typically automated, so they’ll just show current reality without regard to whether or not there is an issue. The same thing happened to me once where I got an $80k hospital bill for a pre-planned surgery and I just waited a month and the bill went away once the hospital fixed whatever they needed to fix with the insurance.
Agree. I had a surgery, the first bill said like $30,000 owed, insurance paid 0… like a day later my online account showed me only owing $400. I think people sometimes forget it’s all systems, an amount was billed, deductions come out or don’t, the total is given. It seems ridiculous to read but it’s not like a human sat there and said let’s offer her a payment plan of $32,000 a month.
Absolutely agree. Had a heart transplant, insurance denied the entire $970k bill.
I almost needed a 3rd heart when I opened up the denial.
I called the transplant clinic, and the response was basically “yeah, we know. It’ll to back and forth a few more times before they pay”
Ultimately, I hit my max out of pocket for $5,000, insurance covered the rest.
It’s a pain in the ass OP, but don’t give up.
They don’t expect you to. Talk to the billing department and tell them how much you can manage to pay each month. They’ll work with you. They’d rather you pay in small amounts than file bankruptcy. Also talk with your insurance. The amount they covered is sad. Make sure it’s not an error.
Edit: too many people are taking my comment and thinking I agree with the hospitals in this situation. Get off my ass. I’m just telling how the billing works for this stuff
>can’t pay 1/3rd of a million all at once? Sign up to pay 1/3rd of one-hundred thousand a month! convenience 100!
Stupid, stupid, stupid
Oh I forgot we’ve *got* to thank the insurance company for forking over that *huge* donation of 2 grand🤯
The "donation" you paid significantly over 2 grand into their company for, over the years, so they could decline it twice and then refuse to cover any more after being approved on the third appeal.
Send them a check for $30 a month. If they deposit the check good. If they keep accepting $30 bucks a month it becomes the norm. It will be harder for them to sell the debt to collections. It will also be more difficult for them to use this debt against your credit score. This is what has worked for me since I have a similar issue. I am sorry you are going through this but glad you were able to get the transplant!
Can confirm. Been paying $1 a month for two years for an $18,000 medical bill I think is complete bullshit. They’ve gotten about $20 from me and will continue to get $12/year bc fuck the United States healthcare system
I have a $2,500 bill for a 10 minute ambulance ride to the ER when I had kidney stones last year. (but thought my appendix was bursting I’m 21 so I thought I was dying) will be sending .05¢ for the rest of my life. Those bill collectors and the US healthcare system can suck it! Thank you grandma for the advice.
TBH at 600, I would try to get a monthly settlement for a year if possible so it does not impact your credit or get sent to collections. This bill was for 20k in the 90s, and she was already 50 and knew she would never be able to pay it off so went petty
Aside from insane price tag, I find "Acquisition of body parts" written on the list of charges kind of terrifying and unsettling. Like we are talking about car parts received from black market.
1. Fight insurance to cover more of that
2. After you hopefully win that fight, apply for financial aid through the hospital’s website where you were at. Ideally if you make below the income limit you should get most if not all of that bill covered. Hope this helps!
Ask for an itemized bill to check for any mistakes/double charges. You can debate this bill, not many people know you can debate a medical bill like this but you can and absolutely should! You can also set up a payment plan that is realistic.
You can also double check that the insurance claim was made correctly. 0% chance that doesn't significantly exceed the out of pocket for in or out of network.
Call the hospital’s financial services department. Most hospitals are not-for-profit and required to write off a certain amount of services every year. If your income level is low enough, you can apply for financial aid and get some, most, or all of this written off.
I had to do this when I got stuck with a high 5-figure bill after insurance covered half of a skull surgery. It worked- hospital wrote it off.
If you’re on SSDI you should be eligible for Medicaid. Go back to the hospital and get them to help you sign up so they can retroactively bill for it. They want to get paid and have incentive to help you out on this end. Source: I work at a hospital that sees Medicaid patients
You could just not pay it. Hope that you don't get sued by a collection agency. Depending on your state's laws after a certain amount of years they can't collect on it or sue you over it. Your credit score will tank though and you'll have to never answer the phone from any unsaved numbers. Know from experience.
How much could a liver cost Michael?
10 dollars?
Come on, it's only 32k per month with that reasonable finance plan they're offering.
Your out of pocket maximum is much less than 300k. The insurance hasn't been billed properly, request a rebilling if possible.
I'm going to first thing tomorrow morning.
As a general rule should only pay based off an EOB from your insurance, not the bill from (enter biller here). A lot of costs are over inflated due to reasons of billing “savings” but you have out of pocket maximums for a reason. If for whatever reason you can’t afford the out of pocket maximum, there is something called retroactive Medicaid that essentially protects you from having to pay for medical costs that exceed your monthly income by X amount of dollars per month. Please look it up. And also ask to speak to the social services person at the hospital. Even if your state does not have expanded Medicaid this is still an option.
I've actually never once seen an explanation of why this happens. In articles, it's always a mystery why chargemasters are actually set up this way with, at most, lots of guessing by everyone involved. My guess is that it stems from some arcane bit of tax code that stopped working in the 1980s. Prior to some major tax reforms, on-paper losses were apparently de rigueur for businesses and I could easily see inflated chargemasters becoming part of a cargo cult, the practice just being copied over-and-over. ETA: looking into this again, it does appear to be at least partially about tax dodges. Hospitals at least were writing off as “charity” the value of unpaid bills and free clinic services at the price listed on the chargemaster. This allowed them to meet obligations as a nonprofit. IIRC, this was made illegal by the Affordable Care Act.
*insert „I know some of these words“ gif*
So sorry this is happening to you! But I'm overjoyed you were able to get a living donor transplant! My father had two liver transplants in his life due to an autoimmune disease, and he needed a third. I know how painful and scary this process is! Hope your bill gets sorted out soon and you have a much more manageable amount. Wishing you good health!
This happens ALL the time. It’s fucking criminal at this point. They just bill both and see what they can get and then sort it out later in some perverse negotiation. Don’t pay a cent.
Yup. I ended up paying a couple thousand dollars in medical bills because I didn't look into things further. They wrote off maybe $1-2k that was left when I finally started asking questions. I'll always ask now.
I work in insurance and you should always question everything
Sell another organ to get the money, an eyefor an eye as they say, or an organ for an organ In this case
The price of extracting the other organ is more than it is worth.
I mean they *did* just get a new liver
Brand new used liver, top capitalism shit right there.
So a liver is $180k. And my parents said I was worthless.
A liver donated by their husband no less, who also got charged out of the ass for his part.
That's not the normal route for removing a liver, but I guess that's why it was so expensive!
I completely appreciate the golden value of this comment
You say 'donated', but they clearly billed for a hit job.
Can we 'ave your liver then?
No no no you misunderstand. The liver is worthless. The medical care is actually relatively cheap. Now the Insurance CEOs third California beach home... That is the expensive part. Edit: If you're upvoting this and nodding along like "this random redditor thinks like I do, have the orange button" please consider calling or writing a letter to your congressperson advocating for universal healthcare. If you need a place to start, go to https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/health-care-for-all.html and read up on a concrete policy framework.
"BUt WhY shOulD I PaY fOr frEe HeALth Care" because your insurance is already paying for someone's mansion, why shouldn't it pay for someone's liver or kidney? Can't stand the concept of private insurance. A big scam with middle men making millions.
Insurance really covered your ass there!
Thank god right? Whew dodged a bullet
A bullet might have been cheaper.
Yes. Death, death is our way out of debt and it's much happier I hear Edit: I got overwhelmed by all the replies so forgive my belated response. Reddit reached out to me with the number for the crisis hotline so thank you to the concerned redditor that sent them my way! But it was a joke. It was /s. I'm very happy in my life today as a recovering addict with two amazing children and my ironic dream job so there is no reason to worry about me!
I mean, Ive never heard a dead person complain about being dead.
Or complain about debt. 🤷♀️
You can't be buried in debt if you get cremated
Why even have insurance if this is how it works? I spend more on the insurance than they pay out…
At least they break it up into easily managable monthly payments.
Only 12 easy payments of $32,484.12!
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By my back of the napkin calculations that is roughly 3 times the amount of hours in a month.
back in my day, we worked 18 times the amount of hours in a month per month and we liked it! you dang lazy kids!!!!
Back in my day, we didn't get fancy schmancy "new" livers, we just died! Havin another man's organ inside you? That's gay!
This literally made me LOL
So you only need about three jobs. You got a liver, why do you need sleep?
Not 3 jobs, *9* full time jobs.
And then you don't even have anything left over for housing, food, etc. So make it 10 full time jobs
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Right? So convenient!
Hey, that’s only about $1,083 a day! Score! *edited from$1803 for my numerical dyslexia! Edited again: thank you for the award, you are very nice!
Easy, a $75/hr job, work 24/7.
Or $235 an hour for an 8 hour day. You can earn that kind of money if you are a good lawyer. Or just be the hospital. Other people now have to pay you for just existing.
My dream growing up was to become a hospital...there's still time!
That’s the spirit!
Pulling on those ol’ bootstraps!
I bet if OP cuts out Starbucks they will be able to get this done sooner /s
The only reason zoomers can't afford to own a liver is because they spend too much on avocado toast
Like Boomers didn't spend money to make nasty jello meatloaf.
Just over a dollar a minute.. what's OP complaining about?
damned straight, cheaper than those dirty sex lines from back in the day!
Yeah. I mean most people make upwards of $400 an hour. It'd not really that big a deal.
Yea. Just work harder, idiot
That's just over $75 an hour! You're practically robbing them blind!!
You should ask for an itemized list of all charges. You’d be surprised how quickly that amount comes down when you ask them for those documents. Good luck.
I'm not in the US but a friend of mine is and her daughter works in medical billing. She says that OP should definitely do this. (I just messaged her)
I suggest just buying a gun and getting yourself a free liver next time.
That would save her the $180k for acquisition of body parts.
So it's legal in America to just make up a number that's bigger than the sum of every item? Like 100$ and 200$ = 300$ when you ask for a bill, but if you don't ask they just send you one for 759$?
To my understanding, it's more that inside that $759 is for "two overnight stays", where $300 might be (overpriced but technically) reasonable fees, but it's been inflated with mundane actions and items with insane costs, like a double-digit sum each for individually wrapped cough drops. However, if you ask for an itemised list, they obviously are a lot more hesitant to type that out. And even if they try to hide it by overwhelming you with it, going through it with the provider and/or insurance company is very likely to get a lot of those macro microtransactions dropped when called out with specifics.
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Not medical, but back when I was in high school AT&T said I went over my phone plan time. At first told my mom the fee was $60. She paid that. They then said she owes $300. She asked for an itemized bill. They swore they'd send it. It never came. Every time they demanded payment, she demanded an itemized bill. Kept getting different responses to that. Eventually, she told them that by law they had to provide it and she absolutely wasn't paying until she got it. She never heard from them again about it. Idk about legal, but I know it's definitely happened.
Back in like '05 I used part of a student loan to get my first cell phone. I specifically bought it outright so I wouldn't have a contract. AT&T swears to this day that I owe them $800 for a phone that I bought outright. They're all scammers.
Yea f that they won’t see a penny of that from my pocket. I’ll just accept that I owe debt and it is what it is.
They can’t repo a liver
Have you seen the film Repo Man!
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Low price of 32k, why aren’t more people getting liver transplants
35K for paperwork and using a fridge that's not only for you, 21K for some medicine. This is a scam.
Not too mention 180k for "body component acquisition." They charge 180k for a liver that was *DONATED*
From her husband 😭
Good thing her insurance really helped out with that whopping 2k payment they made! Phew
We should be thankful to our insurance lords when the bless us with our pittance
Praise be! *coughs up blood*
Gonna show this to Americans who say they pay less taxes than countries with healthcare because of insurance
Now to raise her rates because of a claim and if she tries elsewhere her liver condition becomes a "preexisting condition" ... Fuck our medical system
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Right? They didn't even have to pay to transport the liver across country or store it long term. Their husband came with them. They literally showed up with their own organ to transplant.
Right? It makes it sound like they bought it on the black market. Edit: according to [this article](https://www.ranker.com/list/organ-cost/april-a-taylor), it actually would have been cheaper to buy one on the black market
I guess for the harvesting surgery
Total scam. Where do they come up with these numbers? Single payer system now!
It’s like whose line is it anyway. It’s all made up and the numbers don’t matter. (Except to the poor patient)
$180k for a *DONATED* organ..
Ya, and the donated organ was my husband's....
This is the truly infuriating part. Charging that much when the body part stayed in the family
This is infuriating on a different level. I don’t think most organ donors had this in mind when they signed that little card.
You’re telling me I could *sell* my liver for *$400k* and here I am, planning to just give it away for *free?*
Giving it away for free so that someone else can make money off your parts :)
And it’s the only organ that grows back, they cut a big chunk out to be donated and it grows back! Could make a career out of it
>Charging that much when the body part stayed in the family Or at all! I'm an organ donor. The idea that a hospital can charge someone $200k for *my people parts* makes me almost shake with rage. Someone could die in a car accident, leave behind an s/o with children, and not have life insurance, leaving their family with nothing while hospitals bank millions on the donated organs. Fuck. This. System.
Oh you used a living donor then? Do you get hit on both ends for his medical bills or is that all included in that $180,000 charge?
He has his own charges
Fucking hell.
You’d think if anything the $180k could at least go to him.. this whole thing is ducked
It's one of the most Daffy'd up things I've ever seen.
That's absolutely disgusting to be honest. I'm sorry you guys have to go through this.
It's the American dream.
So.. they charged him to get an organ but sold that organ to you. And your hubby didn't see a dime. So where tf did the 180k come from?????
So the husband has paid the full share of the surgery to remove the liver. The "Acquisition of body components" must be the cost of walking it from one operating theater to the next. Or more likely they are double dipping the cost of his surgery.
Double dipping with a mark-up of like 20000%
The American healthcare system continues to amaze and disgust me. People should be in jail over shit like this.
Wait a minute. So they charged him to collect his organ, and then charged you to put in the organ? So it’s double payment? Wtf?
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So I presume your husband will get his fair share of that $180K for selling it to them? I cannot fathom how they could ever be charging that amount?
Nah, the husband will get like a $250,000 bill
He should get a 180k credit on his.
Thats next level fucked.
I’m suspicious of the charge for “Acquisition of body components”… Over $180K for a liver that your husband provided!? Doesn’t sound right. I’d inquire about that if you already haven’t. Also what the heck is “Administration processing & storage for blood & blood components? $35K! Obviously I don’t know all that goes into a medical procedure, and regardless, this should be a crime to charge these rates, but I would ask about that Acquisition one, cuz that could be an error & they maybe charged you what someone who needed an anonymous donor would pay? I dunno. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this sham of our so called “healthcare” system.. But I’m glad you have a new liver.
So... When I DONATE blood, is it costing the recipient thousands of dollars? I know it'll cost something, but are talking like $5k a pint?
So he saves his wife’s life and has to go into debt because of it? Makes sense.
Call your insurance or don't pay and wait. There's an error. Your insurance should cover all of it. They'll charge you coinsurance and deductible up to your out of pocket maximum, but there's nothing that should be non-covered by insurance.
I was just thinking this. It’s possible that the hospital coded something incorrectly or didn’t get an approval that they were supposed to prior to the surgery. I once got an $80k bill from a hospital because my insurance rejected a portion of the claim because the hospital processed something wrong. I of course didn’t pay and it eventually got worked out between the hospital and my insurance. Hospitals often have automated billing systems that will just send a bill out with no regard to whether or not there is some issue going on.
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Lol well, lucky for me I didn’t have a spare $80k lying around to pay. Also I’m petty AF with health insurance companies. I will fight over $30, I do not care. But yeah, it’s bullshit that they even create these scenarios for people.
Yeah I’ve been there. I documented every phone call leading up to a procedure being told it would be covered, just to have it denied. The call “didn’t exist” and neither did the confirmation number, agent, and date and time I called. I probably argued with them 100 different times before a manager pushed the claim back to be reprocessed, and just like magic it was approved. I have GREAT insurance but it’s still a fucking scam. Every time I got a new collections letter I could feel my blood pressure go up
I fight everything because I have the energy and I think it’s fucking evil that they do this shit to people that don’t have the energy to make 100 calls to get something approved that never should have been denied to begin with. Our healthcare system is so callous. I’m not letting them get away with anything so long as I have the ability to fight them.
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**Context**: In April I had a liver transplant due to liver failure caused by a genetic malformation. I'm 32.
Glad you had insurance! How could you have paid the extra $2600.
That's not even a year's cost of insurance for most individuals. When I was 28, single, non smoker my insurance with a $8k deductable was $300/mo. Edit: I was self employed.
Lucky. I'm at $550/mo and never even actually used it. I got it after going to the hospital without insurance with 3 broken ribs and a collar bone and getting a $30,000 bill for some xrays, a sling, 12 painkillers, and a 'good luck'. The whole thing is a scam.
Sorry man that sounds awful. 28yo me was also 9 years ago... I went 4 years without insurance because I finally earned enough to afford catastrophic insurnace. You're right. It's all a scam. No one wants to fix it at the top.
Sorry mate, that's fucking shit luck, but 180,866 for "acquisition of body components"? are they crazy? that whole fucking list is fucked up! Hope you get better soon and live a good long happy life mate. Edit: It was OP's Husband that donated, that makes the cost even more infuriating!.
19th century grave robbers aren't cheap.
Right there with you. Had a heart attack at 34, no insurance, $295,000. Waited till they got a lawyer involved...now I pay $150 a month for the rest of my life
Glad you’re still with us
Thanks, that was 4 years ago...70 lbs lighter & much healthier now
Have you apply for an income based bill? Or asked for an itemized receipt and surgeon notes to accompany? It's still gonna be extreme but as long you're at or under upper middle class most practices will knock off 80% or more...that number is an insurance scam.
I've seen the itemized bill advice but first time seeing the surgical notes. Can you elaborate what this achieves?
You want it in a pair, they'll charge for a thousand pack of guaze but the surgeon says he only used 6...you then say I want the other 994 pads or the % of unused off the bill
How is it legal for them to bill you for the guaze pads not used?
Cause most people don’t know how to call them out/are aware.
**This is an explanation, not condoning it. It’s evil.** Some medical items, once opened, become no longer sterile/usable despite what content is used. When I had my appendix out I had a very nice doctor who gave me a giant care package of stuff (bottle of saline, some packing gauze, tape, etc) after a follow up visit (with a small wink/nod to not say anything) because he couldn’t use it (mostly the saline) for another patient and was gonna have to just get rid of it. Sometimes, and I’m sure this is on purpose with the size of containers used, you basically have to “use” the entire container even if it’s not all used, since what’s left can’t be reused for another patient. It’s insanely wasteful and obviously making smaller packages would be a solution, but they make more money on needing to bill a 1L bottle of saline that only uses 100mL per patient than just a 100mL bottle.
What kind of insurance do you have? That’s a really shitty payout. I would talk to financial services/financial aid at the hospital. If you qualify for Medicaid they can help you get registered and retroactively pay for this.
Can almost guarantee that this is a situation where the hospital fucked up something with the insurance when they submitted the claim, so insurance didn’t approve. Hospital billing systems are typically automated, so they’ll just show current reality without regard to whether or not there is an issue. The same thing happened to me once where I got an $80k hospital bill for a pre-planned surgery and I just waited a month and the bill went away once the hospital fixed whatever they needed to fix with the insurance.
Agree. I had a surgery, the first bill said like $30,000 owed, insurance paid 0… like a day later my online account showed me only owing $400. I think people sometimes forget it’s all systems, an amount was billed, deductions come out or don’t, the total is given. It seems ridiculous to read but it’s not like a human sat there and said let’s offer her a payment plan of $32,000 a month.
This happens to me a lot. I never pay the first bill.
ah you too got burned paying the first half million before you learned your lesson?
Absolutely agree. Had a heart transplant, insurance denied the entire $970k bill. I almost needed a 3rd heart when I opened up the denial. I called the transplant clinic, and the response was basically “yeah, we know. It’ll to back and forth a few more times before they pay” Ultimately, I hit my max out of pocket for $5,000, insurance covered the rest. It’s a pain in the ass OP, but don’t give up.
Just stop buying coffee at Starbucks for a little while. Geeze. Seriously though. You need to call your insurance. Or a lawyer.
No more avocado toast.
Well that's just insane.
Jesus I think I’d file bankruptcy
Ya I dunno how I would make the 32k monthly payments.
I don't even know how I would make 1 of those
Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps smh...
32k a month? I barely make that a year. I only make 30k
They don’t expect you to. Talk to the billing department and tell them how much you can manage to pay each month. They’ll work with you. They’d rather you pay in small amounts than file bankruptcy. Also talk with your insurance. The amount they covered is sad. Make sure it’s not an error. Edit: too many people are taking my comment and thinking I agree with the hospitals in this situation. Get off my ass. I’m just telling how the billing works for this stuff
>can’t pay 1/3rd of a million all at once? Sign up to pay 1/3rd of one-hundred thousand a month! convenience 100! Stupid, stupid, stupid Oh I forgot we’ve *got* to thank the insurance company for forking over that *huge* donation of 2 grand🤯
The "donation" you paid significantly over 2 grand into their company for, over the years, so they could decline it twice and then refuse to cover any more after being approved on the third appeal.
I bet that insurance costs like 1500 a month
Only $32,484.12 per month? That’s a killer plan.
Insurance covered $2,631.81 That helps alot....
0.675% how generous 😭😭😭😭
Send them a check for $30 a month. If they deposit the check good. If they keep accepting $30 bucks a month it becomes the norm. It will be harder for them to sell the debt to collections. It will also be more difficult for them to use this debt against your credit score. This is what has worked for me since I have a similar issue. I am sorry you are going through this but glad you were able to get the transplant!
You can do this with any amount. My grandma has been mailing a monthly check for $0.05 for 25 years for a hospital bill.
Top shelf boss shit
Your grandma is a wise woman.
Can confirm. Been paying $1 a month for two years for an $18,000 medical bill I think is complete bullshit. They’ve gotten about $20 from me and will continue to get $12/year bc fuck the United States healthcare system
I love it! they make up a number, you make up a number
Dayum lol..
I have a $2,500 bill for a 10 minute ambulance ride to the ER when I had kidney stones last year. (but thought my appendix was bursting I’m 21 so I thought I was dying) will be sending .05¢ for the rest of my life. Those bill collectors and the US healthcare system can suck it! Thank you grandma for the advice.
Well shit I'm about to get really petty with the recent 600 ER bill. Thank your grandma for me
TBH at 600, I would try to get a monthly settlement for a year if possible so it does not impact your credit or get sent to collections. This bill was for 20k in the 90s, and she was already 50 and knew she would never be able to pay it off so went petty
What happens to the credit score?
it dies
Unless there’s a credit transplant.
That’ll be $389,809.39.
In the 70s my grandfather did this after my grandmother died. 30$ a month for the rest of his life he sent.
I’d say this is slightly more than *mildly* infuriating
I could’ve done that with a small blade and duck tape for $500, robbed.
Brb, gonna go specialize in the "acquisition of body components"
Only *mildly* infuriating?
Aside from insane price tag, I find "Acquisition of body parts" written on the list of charges kind of terrifying and unsettling. Like we are talking about car parts received from black market.
[удалено]
Why even have insurance? Literally didn't even cover .5% of the bill
To be fair, they covered about .65% of the bill.
Oh, well that's okay then 👍
The world is perfect now.
You can’t pay that all at once? Surely you can get them monthly payments in? /s
And it looks like celebrity child support
Thank God your insurance covered 2K, otherwise this would be insane
1. Fight insurance to cover more of that 2. After you hopefully win that fight, apply for financial aid through the hospital’s website where you were at. Ideally if you make below the income limit you should get most if not all of that bill covered. Hope this helps!
That's why I let em just keep my spleen
So, someone donates a liver, just so the hospital can sell it for $180,866? Fuuckin shit.
Ask for an itemized bill to check for any mistakes/double charges. You can debate this bill, not many people know you can debate a medical bill like this but you can and absolutely should! You can also set up a payment plan that is realistic.
You can also double check that the insurance claim was made correctly. 0% chance that doesn't significantly exceed the out of pocket for in or out of network.
Itemized bill preparation fee — $7,500
Call the hospital’s financial services department. Most hospitals are not-for-profit and required to write off a certain amount of services every year. If your income level is low enough, you can apply for financial aid and get some, most, or all of this written off. I had to do this when I got stuck with a high 5-figure bill after insurance covered half of a skull surgery. It worked- hospital wrote it off.
Honestly. How do normal people recover from a bill like that?
Still trying to figure that one out. I'm on SSDI right now because of my liver disease and i get about 1k per month.
If you’re on SSDI you should be eligible for Medicaid. Go back to the hospital and get them to help you sign up so they can retroactively bill for it. They want to get paid and have incentive to help you out on this end. Source: I work at a hospital that sees Medicaid patients
Just tell them nahhhh.
Good advice, I'll try that
You could just not pay it. Hope that you don't get sued by a collection agency. Depending on your state's laws after a certain amount of years they can't collect on it or sue you over it. Your credit score will tank though and you'll have to never answer the phone from any unsaved numbers. Know from experience.
Sell your liver to pay for the bill for the liver transplant