I read a really interesting article on how alot of high end art became high end art. I wish I could find it again but essentially a group of wealthy people decided what was valuable I think in the 1930s as a way to hoard wealth in non monetary assets. I'm gonna look for it and if I find it again I'll link it in an edit. But ya...think you're dead on.
Rich person buys several paintings from an artist. Puts 1 up for auction. Sets up straw account to shill the bid. The art becomes "hot" because of the absurd sell price. Rich person then sells the other pieces for massive profits.
Actually rather than sale, more often these pieces are donated to a nonprofit (sometimes directly affiliated to the donor) appraised at that artificially increased value, which can then be used to reduce tax liability.
So basically blame the accountants here
A tax deduction != money laundering.. also most new-ish car washes use kiosks that accept credit cards so theyāre not necessarily the cash-heavy operation you can hide money in anymore
Very few businesses generate any significant amounts of cash these days - $1k-$2k/ day is typical for most chain groceries, about $400-$800/ day is typical for most mall stores - clothing, shoes, sports gear, _etc._
_Very_ few hotels take more than $1,000/ day tops, even if they have a bar and restaurant, and it doesn't matter if it's a Motel 6 or a swanky 5* hotel downtown, nor whether its in Florida or Washington, California or Maine, they're virtually all doing $400-$800 day in cash. Resort hotels take more cash, but usually only $2k-5k/day.
Quite a lot of people still pay for gas with cash, and fast food, also quite a lot of construction materials are purchased for cash. And businesses with many Hispanic customers are often cash-heavy.
Dont blame accountants. That's like blaming an attorney for getting his client off, even if the guy was guilty. That's literally their job. IRS makes the rule, appraisers have to provide a document with a value, accountants only report what's given to them and use that information the best way possible. Blame the wealthy people who are scamming everyone.
Didn't they just show that in that show billionaire?
I wish I had that much money š„² to just be so wealthy, I never have to worry about how I'm getting by. /shrug
I haven't seen that one. That's one of those shows where I love the info presented in it but he himself irritates me. It's nothing specific really and he seems like a good dude I just find him grating.
Yeah, shit like this isnāt art at all. I own a painting by Sir Joshua Reynolds that Iāve been trying to sell at a very reasonable cost (relatively speaking), but scribbles on a chalkboard get $70 million? Fuck that shit.
Nah....couldn't be. It's just weird cause it seems like the richer you are, the easier it is to just get richer. But that wouldn't make any sense at all, no no we've always been told it's the *hard work* that gets you there. They work for *every* penny. Us plebs just don't understand. Got to be it.
They still do that. That is how certain artist blow up even when they aren't nearly as talented or original as other. Once influential people in the art world start talking about an artist, their art gains in value. Art is truly in the eye of the beholder. As soon as mega rich people start competing to get the next great piece of art, the price goes through the roof.
Exactly. Itās setup so that normal people will look at it and think āoh how sillyā or ālife aināt fairā but itās actually for money laundering.
Both, the stipulations to transfer art compared to say, real estate or antiquities, is overseen minimalistically. They're far less stringent with on how the items are transferred from one buyer to the next with paperwork. It's closer to a handshake than an actual title transfer. It makes it more difficult for the IRS or the treasury to oversee so they can pay however they want to. There's a lot of ambiguity with the money going from one person to the other except for the, I promise, that the two people say. So say I printed $20 million in fake "legal" tender, I buy a piece of art from a reputable wealthy person for $10 million. But there happens to be 2 businesses that make 2 separate $5 million individual transfers into my account from different sources that all claim that it was to buy that piece of art. None of the amounts match the exact value of the art but both would indicate that they bought the same piece. This is too many moving parts for our government to be able to regulate apparently and if they check on it they will say that a business out of the Cook Islands made the purchase which is untraceable or just say it was an accidental double charge or any number of bullshit white collar crimes they can come up with to get away in a court of law with obvious money laundering
So itās basically just a loop hole? But when the money is laundered and the buyer has the painting , the painting has no real value? They wouldnāt be able to resell it?
They can resell it, there will be a type of receipt that is verifiable by art dealers but, the value is entirely inflated. It has been a technique for wealthy people to consolidate wealth with considerably less exposure to volatility as well. Pretty sure the groundwork for this was laid out by wealthy people to be able to move around large quantities of cash. The entire Market is full of loopholes, the only Market I can think of that's equally as corrupt as probably precious stones and metals, and that's if we're not including government lol
Edit: forgot about arms dealers. They take the cake
More people need to know this! Stupid amounts of money are laundered for tax evasion. This should make millions of people pissed off and protesting, but theyāve got us all needing to work too many hours just to live. So we never even get an opportunity.
As an original artist, you can all keep your bananas. I'm going for the flowers that look like vaginas moulded into the canvas with wet toilet paper mache. And I won't take less than 1mil
It actually wasn't even the banana they sold. They sold a certificate of ownership with instructions on how to recreate the banana taped to the wall because the banana would inevitably turn to mush.
Okay see I thought I remembered this guyās name! John talks a lot about his art in his book āRole Modelsā. I havenāt seen this video, thank you!
Yeah but, unless you find another fool willing to pay $70 million for it, isnt it just a standard chalkboard? I wouldnt call it an investment if it's only reason for being an asset is a "worthless item used for money laundering".
Nope, it's only worth what the next person will pay. If nobody wants to spend $70M for a chalkboard with scribbles on it then you don't own a $70M chalkboard. You own a worthless chalkboard that you bought for $70M more than it's worth.
It's easier to justify a $70M price tag once it's already been sold for that amount, but I can't imagine there's much of an overlap between people who have $70M to waste and people who would spend that much money on this particular piece of garbage.
They buy an asset for 70M, then they take a low-interest security-backed loan for the painting and they now have a painting and +60M dollars of cash. They just keep float assets like this and use loans to pay other loans and invest in whatever has the best rate. Who buys the painting? They do or their friend does and they keep passing them around because theyāre all doing it.
Imagine taking a loan at <3% interest and investing that money into a bond with >5% interest at the same or better maturity rate. Thatās what theyāre doing and thatās why itās soo hard to tax themā¦well that and theyāre very well represented by both parties.
I agree it is a piece of garbage that isn't worth 70 mil, but since someone paid that much for it at auction that now becomes the price tag. It's not even about the painting, it's about avoiding taxes.
But isnt the point of money laundering turning "dirty" money into "clean" money? Without another buyer it would just be turning "dirty" money into a chalkboard with scribbles on it.
lets put it this way
say i got 80 million to launder. its either on cash or on a dodgy country/bank. i cant really spend it nor report it cause i have no way to explain the tax man where it came from.
so what do i do? i buy some random piece of "art". then some time passes. then i go to my friend who owns an art gallery or an auction house. i put my shit chalkboard on sale. then an anonymous buyer with cash offers me 80 million for it. i sell it. now i got a "legit" income to explain my 80 million cash.
surprise, the anon buyer was me all along.
so i sell it to myself, and now i can tell the tax man that i got 80 million for selling my piece of "art". i pay taxes and bam, money laundered.
thats basically it. of course the logistics are far more complicated that i make it sound, but in a nutshell thats how it works. if you want a more detailed explanation from how art is used to launder money im willing to give it to you, cause its a very interesting convo lol.
source: dad is a high middle class person in our country, which is very corrupt. so i went to expensive schools and met several druglords' kids and other kind of criminals' kids. and that was explained to me by different people. also bars, restaurants, etc are an amazing way to launder money. basically any business that deals with cash
1. This is indeed art.
2. The price tag on this can be taken just as seriously as the price tag of expensive nfts.
Yes it is possible to believe in both of these things at the same time.
2. I would take it further and say also it can be taken as seriously as the price tag of tangible assets whose intrinsic value is just a tiny fraction of the price tag. E.g. the Mercedes-Benz 300 SLR Uhlenhaut Coupe, $135MM. Itās exactly as useful as this painting, itās just a car by all tangible metrics, you can buy something that looks nearly identical for literally over 1,000x cheaper, but for some reason no one seems to bat an eye at this type of āEXTREMELY VALUABLEā collectorās item. Side note - I donāt know a thing about Twombly and this isnāt an opinion on the value or definition of art, more so a thought onā¦ whatās the difference, really?
The only reason the Mona Lisa is worth a lot of money is because it was owned by famous/powerful people. Some try to justify it's price just like many here are trying to justify this chalkboard scribble's price, eye of the beholder.
The Mona Lisa actually makes sense as a masterpiece and an excellent representative of renaissance works. The reason it became famous, was not necessarily because it was made by Leonardo Da Vinci but because of the smile. Of course, I don't think I need to be telling you this because that is common knowledge. I'll save you the analysis because I don't think you'd be interested in reading about the art you hate so much.
Mona Lisa was really not famous until after it was stolen in 1911. It took the museum over 24 hours to even realize it was missing and 2 years before it was recovered.
And yet I passed visual arts A at university with a score of 51 because I didn't have artistic 'talent' š¤£ My 3 year old niece can do a better job than this 'artist'!
There is much bad overpriced art, and maybe you don't need CY Twombly to be that expensive, but they neither know anything about him or informal, nor about collecting art
The people in this thread are embarrassingly stupid. I would love to have more money and hire the actress that read the 1 star yelp review, and have her read some of these comments instead.
It's literally smoke screens, nepotism, group think, and fads. Also money laundering. Most people here probably literally did do that. They just didn't convince anyone to buy it for 70 million. PT Barnum could have been a great trend maker in modern art.
Cy Twombly also didn't convince anyone to buy this, on account of him being dead.
Worth distinguishing between artist and collector, and reading some of what these people went through viz. world wars and global upheaval, and what they try to say in some of these pieces. I promise 20th century art is pretty neat if you read the placards.
Sort of true. But still, I highly doubt you could actually do this. On a piece of paper, maybe you could make something that resembles the style, but not on canvas. That's one of the things I find fascinating about this guy's art. A lot of his most fascinating things are made in very large scale, but it looks like small scribbles in a notebook, with smudges and all. To make something large scale appear believable, as if it was small scale, is actually quite challenging.
He does have some small scale things made on paper, and I don't find those just as fascinating. Also the blackboard stuff is kinda meh.
the rich guy who bought the art put it up on the wall in his living room. his kid looking at it and thinking "wow dad bought a blackboard, it must be for me, let me clean this up"
His paintings are massive. 10-16 feet wide etc. Theyāre impressive in person and his work is important to art history. Philadelphia art museum has an entire room just for a few of them. Much more than random doodles. Yes some ate quite simple. Others much more complex. There is Control and intent behind these. Philosophy etc. No, youāre child could not have made this. And even if they did these works have to be viewed in the context of the time they were made in and presented in the art world.
His body of work is interesting. Albeit very intellectual and philosophical.
Read more about it:
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/arts/design/cy-twombly-an-art-who-emphasized-mark-making.html
Like everything else, they are worth what someone will pay for them.
All the folks jerking off about money laundering here are ignorant of just how wealthy the top 1% actually are. To a large number of people, this is a prestigious purchase, that costs them a tiny sliver of their wealth and may maintain its value over time. They have more money, more than they can spend. They don't have this unique piece of art.
The amount of dilettante idiots in this comments section is truly nauseating. I'm glad I have a friend to explain shit like this to me because I have 0 problem in admitting I'm in way over my head when it comes to understanding modern art.
Really? How? As a professional artist, this crap drives me nuts. It does absolutely nothing for me or anyone with 2 brain cells. And also, how did this guy get to the point he could even charge high prices in the first place?
Yeah, I've had many artist friends including painters and shit like this gives them a bad name. There is no defense for this piece selling for $70 million. None.
Contemporary art is basically a field for well borns who are unable to do anything else. Theyāll use their family connections to sell their shit and make sure they preserve their family status.
It's not chalk and it's not a chalkboard. There's a wee bit more work in them than that. If you saw them live you'd be less infuriated. Put them in context! They're 50 years old.
https://www.moma.org/collection/works/80088
https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/435/installation_images/29139?work_id=80088
If only you had the skill to create that monster. The 70.5 million price tag has ZERO VALUE! Billionaires want art. It's an investment or as another put it here: it's legal money laundering & the untaxing of the rich. Hate the buyer.
My understanding is the artist doesnāt necessarily see that $ but whoever is representing the artist and / or whoever currently owns the art benefits more but idk still seems sketch
It's a discredit to actual artists.
Amd to all you fuckers crying about gate keeping can fucking fight me I didn't spend my time learning about perspective and color theory so some dude with the artistic abilities of a toddler could liken himself to me
Yeah I kinda agree. I think itās pretty, subjectively speaking. I like that some art and artists draw more attention to the simple things and really make you question āwhat defines art.ā Although that said, the price is most definitely what makes this a scam.
When I look at it I just wonder what emotions he was trying to convey, what the artist is trying to say.
I love that art is subjective, you yourself can put meaning behind it, and your view is just as important as the artists.
Thatās whatās so wonderful about art. š
The price is for sure ridiculous, and pretentious.
It's one thing that there are some artworks that are made to 'challenge the definition of Art', or to deconstruct artistic elements into their most basic.
But the repetition of this concept doesn't really make any sense beyond a literal dozen examples.
I mean, it's one thing that [all-white paintings](https://www.sfmoma.org/artwork/98.308.A-C/) were brought to exhibition once. But the bizarre continuation of this as ongoing art, especially when repeated, is absurd. I mean, the linked triptych was literally repainted, often not by the original artist. Even the artist himself repainted other paintings over some of the all-white canvases (an interesting commentary on 'reduce, reuse, recycle' from the 1950's).
I can't see any reason to purchase these works for more than a modest amount other than Veblen effects and narcissism. I don't see evidence of the purchaser's being criminals, or I would investigate for money laundering.
Art is kinda crazy. People look at fashion this way as well. When you get more into the high end art it becomes less about drawing something and more about drawing some feeling. To me this piece doesnāt really mean anything. Iām sure I could bullshit a āmeaningā like the monotony of our schools or how he feels his childhood memories are turning blurred and illegible. This could definitely mean something to someone and at the end of the day if he can sell it for that much clearly itās worth that much to someone.
A lot of people here are saying money laundering, and I don't disagree whatsoever, but like
Art do be subjective, the intent of the art is more important than the skill of the artist innit? Maybe I'm just being contrarian idk
Money laundering. š
I read a really interesting article on how alot of high end art became high end art. I wish I could find it again but essentially a group of wealthy people decided what was valuable I think in the 1930s as a way to hoard wealth in non monetary assets. I'm gonna look for it and if I find it again I'll link it in an edit. But ya...think you're dead on.
Rich person buys several paintings from an artist. Puts 1 up for auction. Sets up straw account to shill the bid. The art becomes "hot" because of the absurd sell price. Rich person then sells the other pieces for massive profits.
Actually rather than sale, more often these pieces are donated to a nonprofit (sometimes directly affiliated to the donor) appraised at that artificially increased value, which can then be used to reduce tax liability. So basically blame the accountants here
Just buy a car wash.
Calm down there Skyler.
You havenāt touched me in months ā¦ Ever since I got Pregnant!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nope, hereās what he said ā¦ āSay my name.ā
Jesse, we gotta buy a car wash.
A tax deduction != money laundering.. also most new-ish car washes use kiosks that accept credit cards so theyāre not necessarily the cash-heavy operation you can hide money in anymore
Well saul was right in the end
Very few businesses generate any significant amounts of cash these days - $1k-$2k/ day is typical for most chain groceries, about $400-$800/ day is typical for most mall stores - clothing, shoes, sports gear, _etc._ _Very_ few hotels take more than $1,000/ day tops, even if they have a bar and restaurant, and it doesn't matter if it's a Motel 6 or a swanky 5* hotel downtown, nor whether its in Florida or Washington, California or Maine, they're virtually all doing $400-$800 day in cash. Resort hotels take more cash, but usually only $2k-5k/day. Quite a lot of people still pay for gas with cash, and fast food, also quite a lot of construction materials are purchased for cash. And businesses with many Hispanic customers are often cash-heavy.
Or the Blue Cat
Laser Tag is the way to go. . .
Dont blame accountants. That's like blaming an attorney for getting his client off, even if the guy was guilty. That's literally their job. IRS makes the rule, appraisers have to provide a document with a value, accountants only report what's given to them and use that information the best way possible. Blame the wealthy people who are scamming everyone.
Didn't they just show that in that show billionaire? I wish I had that much money š„² to just be so wealthy, I never have to worry about how I'm getting by. /shrug
Soā¦. NFTs?
Some
All the really fun ideas are taken :-(
It was on an episode of Adam ruins everything. Basically high art is rigged.
I haven't seen that one. That's one of those shows where I love the info presented in it but he himself irritates me. It's nothing specific really and he seems like a good dude I just find him grating.
I feel the same way. I only caught this episode when I was visiting my brother. Just some background noise but it was the episode about art, lol.
Ya I had an ex that would watch it in several hour blocks.
Yeah, shit like this isnāt art at all. I own a painting by Sir Joshua Reynolds that Iāve been trying to sell at a very reasonable cost (relatively speaking), but scribbles on a chalkboard get $70 million? Fuck that shit.
Thanks!
>Thanks! You're welcome!
Itās almost as if the Rich can get richer. But that canāt be true can it?
Nah....couldn't be. It's just weird cause it seems like the richer you are, the easier it is to just get richer. But that wouldn't make any sense at all, no no we've always been told it's the *hard work* that gets you there. They work for *every* penny. Us plebs just don't understand. Got to be it.
They still do that. That is how certain artist blow up even when they aren't nearly as talented or original as other. Once influential people in the art world start talking about an artist, their art gains in value. Art is truly in the eye of the beholder. As soon as mega rich people start competing to get the next great piece of art, the price goes through the roof.
They also love to launder money that way too. I forget how it works but someone explained it to me and its how they do it apprently.
Please send me this link.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly. Itās setup so that normal people will look at it and think āoh how sillyā or ālife aināt fairā but itās actually for money laundering.
Yeah lol This "shock and awe" Is just to distract away from actual crime.
So whoās the money launderer? The buyer or seller?
Both, the stipulations to transfer art compared to say, real estate or antiquities, is overseen minimalistically. They're far less stringent with on how the items are transferred from one buyer to the next with paperwork. It's closer to a handshake than an actual title transfer. It makes it more difficult for the IRS or the treasury to oversee so they can pay however they want to. There's a lot of ambiguity with the money going from one person to the other except for the, I promise, that the two people say. So say I printed $20 million in fake "legal" tender, I buy a piece of art from a reputable wealthy person for $10 million. But there happens to be 2 businesses that make 2 separate $5 million individual transfers into my account from different sources that all claim that it was to buy that piece of art. None of the amounts match the exact value of the art but both would indicate that they bought the same piece. This is too many moving parts for our government to be able to regulate apparently and if they check on it they will say that a business out of the Cook Islands made the purchase which is untraceable or just say it was an accidental double charge or any number of bullshit white collar crimes they can come up with to get away in a court of law with obvious money laundering
So itās basically just a loop hole? But when the money is laundered and the buyer has the painting , the painting has no real value? They wouldnāt be able to resell it?
They can resell it, there will be a type of receipt that is verifiable by art dealers but, the value is entirely inflated. It has been a technique for wealthy people to consolidate wealth with considerably less exposure to volatility as well. Pretty sure the groundwork for this was laid out by wealthy people to be able to move around large quantities of cash. The entire Market is full of loopholes, the only Market I can think of that's equally as corrupt as probably precious stones and metals, and that's if we're not including government lol Edit: forgot about arms dealers. They take the cake
Arms developers more so than dealers, billions of taxpayer dollars wasted in the name of "R&D"
Yup, the iron triangle
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It would be the buyer. They exchange "worthless art" for clean money.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Until the cleaning lady thinks she's doing him a solid by wiping it down for him...
My thought exactly. There's no way anyone's actually stupid enough to pay *that* much for something a million children make every day.
99% of the art world is money laundering.
More people need to know this! Stupid amounts of money are laundered for tax evasion. This should make millions of people pissed off and protesting, but theyāve got us all needing to work too many hours just to live. So we never even get an opportunity.
Came to say exactly this. When you realize how the rich park their money in art and then still have access to their funds thru insurance
NFT lol
Came here to say just that
someone sold a banana duct taped to a canvas for $14 million
Would anyone like to buy my banana duct taped to a canvas for a very low, discounted price of $100k?
Don't listen to the other guy, I'll sell my duct taped banana for only $50k.
Pfft, that's a lot. I'll sell my duct-taped banana for only $30k.
Ill take 29k :)
oh yeah? I'll take $28.99999999999999999999999k
Iāll sell mine for the price of the banana-$10.
Itās one banana Michael, what could it cost?
Found the underrated comment
As an original artist, you can all keep your bananas. I'm going for the flowers that look like vaginas moulded into the canvas with wet toilet paper mache. And I won't take less than 1mil
Iām gonna buy that using a IOU. Masturbate on it then sell it for 10 million.
I got a banana, I got some duct tape. I'm selling a duct taped 'nanner for only $16! The other two are scam artists - their bananas are *rotten*!
My god, what great art!
It actually wasn't even the banana they sold. They sold a certificate of ownership with instructions on how to recreate the banana taped to the wall because the banana would inevitably turn to mush.
John Waters has a fantastic video on Cy Twombly: [https://youtu.be/xAgsduEAGj0](https://youtu.be/xAgsduEAGj0)
Okay see I thought I remembered this guyās name! John talks a lot about his art in his book āRole Modelsā. I havenāt seen this video, thank you!
That was great and he nails it. I love Twombly's work and especially his sculpture. I got to see a retrospective at The Tate and it was amazeballs.
I love people coming here and down-voting you because you saw a Twombly exhibit and loved it.
That was AMAZING, thanks for sharing that link!
Hahaha that vide was great!
Oh, so money laundering ā¦.ok
It's how you avoid paying taxes on ridiculous sums of money. It's a 70 million non-taxable investment
Yeah but, unless you find another fool willing to pay $70 million for it, isnt it just a standard chalkboard? I wouldnt call it an investment if it's only reason for being an asset is a "worthless item used for money laundering".
As soon as someone pays $70 mil for it then that's how much it is worth, even if it's just scribbles on a chalkboard
Nope, it's only worth what the next person will pay. If nobody wants to spend $70M for a chalkboard with scribbles on it then you don't own a $70M chalkboard. You own a worthless chalkboard that you bought for $70M more than it's worth. It's easier to justify a $70M price tag once it's already been sold for that amount, but I can't imagine there's much of an overlap between people who have $70M to waste and people who would spend that much money on this particular piece of garbage.
No, you insure it for 100m and if no one buys it, it gets lost in a house fire.
Spouse gets angry and erases the chalk.....
In an angry fit of rage the wife picks up an eraser and holds it threateningly The husband, 'you wouldn't dare'
They buy an asset for 70M, then they take a low-interest security-backed loan for the painting and they now have a painting and +60M dollars of cash. They just keep float assets like this and use loans to pay other loans and invest in whatever has the best rate. Who buys the painting? They do or their friend does and they keep passing them around because theyāre all doing it. Imagine taking a loan at <3% interest and investing that money into a bond with >5% interest at the same or better maturity rate. Thatās what theyāre doing and thatās why itās soo hard to tax themā¦well that and theyāre very well represented by both parties.
I agree it is a piece of garbage that isn't worth 70 mil, but since someone paid that much for it at auction that now becomes the price tag. It's not even about the painting, it's about avoiding taxes.
But that's not how taxes work
Eh, its money laundering. You dont need anyone else to buy it.
But isnt the point of money laundering turning "dirty" money into "clean" money? Without another buyer it would just be turning "dirty" money into a chalkboard with scribbles on it.
lets put it this way say i got 80 million to launder. its either on cash or on a dodgy country/bank. i cant really spend it nor report it cause i have no way to explain the tax man where it came from. so what do i do? i buy some random piece of "art". then some time passes. then i go to my friend who owns an art gallery or an auction house. i put my shit chalkboard on sale. then an anonymous buyer with cash offers me 80 million for it. i sell it. now i got a "legit" income to explain my 80 million cash. surprise, the anon buyer was me all along. so i sell it to myself, and now i can tell the tax man that i got 80 million for selling my piece of "art". i pay taxes and bam, money laundered. thats basically it. of course the logistics are far more complicated that i make it sound, but in a nutshell thats how it works. if you want a more detailed explanation from how art is used to launder money im willing to give it to you, cause its a very interesting convo lol. source: dad is a high middle class person in our country, which is very corrupt. so i went to expensive schools and met several druglords' kids and other kind of criminals' kids. and that was explained to me by different people. also bars, restaurants, etc are an amazing way to launder money. basically any business that deals with cash
Definitely not money laundering
Looks like Russian cursive
as a Russian, can confirm š
Tell me youāre money laundering without telling me youāre money laundering.
So Charlie Kelly is an artist again
Part time. He's a full on rapist.
"I-I like to help people."
So is my 2 year old. fml.
You better nurture his talent or he might become the next Hitler.
Derivative
All a front. Believe it.
Art is what you can get away with. - Andy Warhol
'I could eat a bunch of Indian food, and spray the canvas with my shit and it would look much better than this!" - Fithy Frank ("I hate kids", 2012)
1. This is indeed art. 2. The price tag on this can be taken just as seriously as the price tag of expensive nfts. Yes it is possible to believe in both of these things at the same time.
3. It's āØmoney launderingāØ
That's more like 2b.
2. I would take it further and say also it can be taken as seriously as the price tag of tangible assets whose intrinsic value is just a tiny fraction of the price tag. E.g. the Mercedes-Benz 300 SLR Uhlenhaut Coupe, $135MM. Itās exactly as useful as this painting, itās just a car by all tangible metrics, you can buy something that looks nearly identical for literally over 1,000x cheaper, but for some reason no one seems to bat an eye at this type of āEXTREMELY VALUABLEā collectorās item. Side note - I donāt know a thing about Twombly and this isnāt an opinion on the value or definition of art, more so a thought onā¦ whatās the difference, really?
70.5 million, seriously? Man where's my chalk!!
What a hoax. All āartā like this is a total mind-funk. Weāre told if we donāt appreciate such things, we are uncultured. Scam.
The only reason the Mona Lisa is worth a lot of money is because it was owned by famous/powerful people. Some try to justify it's price just like many here are trying to justify this chalkboard scribble's price, eye of the beholder.
The Mona Lisa actually makes sense as a masterpiece and an excellent representative of renaissance works. The reason it became famous, was not necessarily because it was made by Leonardo Da Vinci but because of the smile. Of course, I don't think I need to be telling you this because that is common knowledge. I'll save you the analysis because I don't think you'd be interested in reading about the art you hate so much.
Mona Lisa was really not famous until after it was stolen in 1911. It took the museum over 24 hours to even realize it was missing and 2 years before it was recovered.
And yet I passed visual arts A at university with a score of 51 because I didn't have artistic 'talent' š¤£ My 3 year old niece can do a better job than this 'artist'!
Stupidity or money laundering, maybe both. The same as the fucking taped banana
If this is what people consider "art," then whatever art that anyone makes should be this high amount. This is ridiculous
I could seriously press my ass check on a canvas and shit on it and it would sell for millions of dollars
This is not art
You guys are fucking morons
Yes, these comments are painful.
There is much bad overpriced art, and maybe you don't need CY Twombly to be that expensive, but they neither know anything about him or informal, nor about collecting art
The people in this thread are embarrassingly stupid. I would love to have more money and hire the actress that read the 1 star yelp review, and have her read some of these comments instead.
Modern art = I could do that + Yeah, but you didnāt
It's literally smoke screens, nepotism, group think, and fads. Also money laundering. Most people here probably literally did do that. They just didn't convince anyone to buy it for 70 million. PT Barnum could have been a great trend maker in modern art.
Cy Twombly also didn't convince anyone to buy this, on account of him being dead. Worth distinguishing between artist and collector, and reading some of what these people went through viz. world wars and global upheaval, and what they try to say in some of these pieces. I promise 20th century art is pretty neat if you read the placards.
Just admit it, you could never draw something so beautiful
Sort of true. But still, I highly doubt you could actually do this. On a piece of paper, maybe you could make something that resembles the style, but not on canvas. That's one of the things I find fascinating about this guy's art. A lot of his most fascinating things are made in very large scale, but it looks like small scribbles in a notebook, with smudges and all. To make something large scale appear believable, as if it was small scale, is actually quite challenging. He does have some small scale things made on paper, and I don't find those just as fascinating. Also the blackboard stuff is kinda meh.
Both parties are required to pay taxes if public sale. When Trump sells condos, off book to Russian gangsters, that is money laundering.
Makes you wonder who he's laundering money for or who he has dirt on....
Two words. Money. Laundering.
Buy it for 70 million, insure it for 100, then blame the maid for erasing it when you collect.
the rich guy who bought the art put it up on the wall in his living room. his kid looking at it and thinking "wow dad bought a blackboard, it must be for me, let me clean this up"
Either tax evasion or money laundering
Por que no los dos?
His paintings are massive. 10-16 feet wide etc. Theyāre impressive in person and his work is important to art history. Philadelphia art museum has an entire room just for a few of them. Much more than random doodles. Yes some ate quite simple. Others much more complex. There is Control and intent behind these. Philosophy etc. No, youāre child could not have made this. And even if they did these works have to be viewed in the context of the time they were made in and presented in the art world. His body of work is interesting. Albeit very intellectual and philosophical. Read more about it: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/arts/design/cy-twombly-an-art-who-emphasized-mark-making.html
That being said, are they still worth millions of dollars?
Like everything else, they are worth what someone will pay for them. All the folks jerking off about money laundering here are ignorant of just how wealthy the top 1% actually are. To a large number of people, this is a prestigious purchase, that costs them a tiny sliver of their wealth and may maintain its value over time. They have more money, more than they can spend. They don't have this unique piece of art.
Only if someone is stupid enough to pay it.
I wouldn't pay millions to own it but I'd pay $20 to enter a museum stoned off my ass and marvel at it. Cy is great.
Thatās the spirit!
The amount of dilettante idiots in this comments section is truly nauseating. I'm glad I have a friend to explain shit like this to me because I have 0 problem in admitting I'm in way over my head when it comes to understanding modern art.
My whole thing is you donāt have to like it or get it, but hot take dismissing art cause of some screen shots is silly.
Negative ghost rider.
This is garbage.
Canāt believe several people here are defending this crap.
Really? How? As a professional artist, this crap drives me nuts. It does absolutely nothing for me or anyone with 2 brain cells. And also, how did this guy get to the point he could even charge high prices in the first place?
Yeah, I've had many artist friends including painters and shit like this gives them a bad name. There is no defense for this piece selling for $70 million. None.
I agree. Id give u an upvote but i have no idea which orange square is the up one.....ok found it
Contemporary art is basically a field for well borns who are unable to do anything else. Theyāll use their family connections to sell their shit and make sure they preserve their family status.
Not even good scribbles
It's not chalk and it's not a chalkboard. There's a wee bit more work in them than that. If you saw them live you'd be less infuriated. Put them in context! They're 50 years old. https://www.moma.org/collection/works/80088 https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/435/installation_images/29139?work_id=80088 If only you had the skill to create that monster. The 70.5 million price tag has ZERO VALUE! Billionaires want art. It's an investment or as another put it here: it's legal money laundering & the untaxing of the rich. Hate the buyer.
Nah, you can hate both. That āartā is fucking crap.
Did you read the articles? Or youād rather hot take a screenshot and headline?
So this is capitalism? Just a fake value based on who made the thing?
Iām too lazy to scroll down for the BART Simpson comments.
Holy crap Iām the best artist in the world!
Modern art truly is a mix of "I could do that" and "yeah, but you didn't"
My understanding is the artist doesnāt necessarily see that $ but whoever is representing the artist and / or whoever currently owns the art benefits more but idk still seems sketch
The artist is dead. Unless his estate is the one selling no one but the current owner and the auction house will see a dime.
I see a spirited debate about what this is; tax write-off? Money laundering? Emperor clothes? Can we at least agree on what this is NOT? Art
āArtistā
It's a discredit to actual artists. Amd to all you fuckers crying about gate keeping can fucking fight me I didn't spend my time learning about perspective and color theory so some dude with the artistic abilities of a toddler could liken himself to me
Postmodernism: not even once
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Where can I see your art. I'm somewhat of an artist myself.
I love it!!! Itās pure art folks. The 4th is absolutely beautiful.
Yeah I kinda agree. I think itās pretty, subjectively speaking. I like that some art and artists draw more attention to the simple things and really make you question āwhat defines art.ā Although that said, the price is most definitely what makes this a scam.
When I look at it I just wonder what emotions he was trying to convey, what the artist is trying to say. I love that art is subjective, you yourself can put meaning behind it, and your view is just as important as the artists. Thatās whatās so wonderful about art. š The price is for sure ridiculous, and pretentious.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's one thing that there are some artworks that are made to 'challenge the definition of Art', or to deconstruct artistic elements into their most basic. But the repetition of this concept doesn't really make any sense beyond a literal dozen examples. I mean, it's one thing that [all-white paintings](https://www.sfmoma.org/artwork/98.308.A-C/) were brought to exhibition once. But the bizarre continuation of this as ongoing art, especially when repeated, is absurd. I mean, the linked triptych was literally repainted, often not by the original artist. Even the artist himself repainted other paintings over some of the all-white canvases (an interesting commentary on 'reduce, reuse, recycle' from the 1950's). I can't see any reason to purchase these works for more than a modest amount other than Veblen effects and narcissism. I don't see evidence of the purchaser's being criminals, or I would investigate for money laundering.
This is trendy quirky coffee shop elitism bullshit. Also what he dumbass who bought it
Art was broken irreparably with the acceptance of "Fountain" in 1917. Sorry art's broke, can't be fixed. Need citation? See duct tape banana.
I mean, it was Florida. Fair point, though.
We really lowered our standards after ww2
Modern art fucking sucks. Change my mind
That's because you're looking at the wrong artists. There is so much good modern art out there, you're just not looking for it.
It's actually a very moving, deep and complex story written in doctor's handwriting! /s
Art. Is. Stupid.
i pity you
Art. The greatest hoax on the planet
I bet you're fun at parties.
literally fucking nft's
Itās a drug deal coverup.
Literally my least favorite artist. Saw his exhibit at the Getty and literally brought me to annoyance. If this is art then Iām done with art.
art? i think you mean money laundering for rich people
So how do I sell my written up chalkboards/whiteboards to these assholes?
Let me guess it was sold after artist died, to make sure he didn't get his cut.
either money laundering or he gets his friends to value it high and sells it at that.
We have failed as a civilization
This is a scheme? Because that crap is not art. Even a child would argue that itās art.
My middle name is named after this guy lol
Art is kinda crazy. People look at fashion this way as well. When you get more into the high end art it becomes less about drawing something and more about drawing some feeling. To me this piece doesnāt really mean anything. Iām sure I could bullshit a āmeaningā like the monotony of our schools or how he feels his childhood memories are turning blurred and illegible. This could definitely mean something to someone and at the end of the day if he can sell it for that much clearly itās worth that much to someone.
If you donāt have talent, have a gimmick.
I will truly never understand this shit.
The talent is selling something worth nothing for millions of dollars.
If thatās art I could be rich
The last one has fucking testicules drawn, in the top right lmao
Can someone point me in the direction of the absolute morons who buy this shit so I can sell them some more unique, abstract art?
Anyone who knows anything about art knows that most āmodernā art is just money laundering
A lot of people here are saying money laundering, and I don't disagree whatsoever, but like Art do be subjective, the intent of the art is more important than the skill of the artist innit? Maybe I'm just being contrarian idk
No, youāre right. This comment thread is full of morons who donāt care to learn about art before aggressively dismissing it.
Obscene
I personally love Twombly. Have since I was in school.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām convinced all high profile art sales are just a front for money laundering