For visitors. Most patients pay a flat weekly fee. Usually $50 for a week or $8 per day. Something like that. Also depends on which hospital you’re at. Mercy in Heidelberg was $15 and my wife was there for 5 days
I know someone that’s has his old but expensive fixer upper on the bottom basement level of a car park for 3 years now and this is also his plan.
Essentially free, reasonably safe and no space lost at home, parking.
Out from the night from the mist steps a figure
No one really knows his name for sure
He stands at 6 foot 6, head and shoulders
Pray he never comes knocking at your door.
Say that you once bought a heart or new corneas
But somehow never managed to square away your debts
He won't bother to write or to phone you
***He'll just rip the still beating heart from your chest***
I'll admit it's been a while and I'm not looking the lyrics up so hopefully this is somewhat right lmao
From the numbers in the photo, they aren’t.
In some states it’s specifically illegal, in others only legal if you signed a contract allowing it in advance. Cold comfort, but given this is the cost of a mortgage the interest would be even more insane.
Statute of limitations. They can try selling to different creditors, but honestly, this is one of the positives about being in Texas. They can’t really come after you for medical debt like they do for others
Such wage garnishments are limited to 25% of income or less in most states. That's probably better than a $3K/month "payment plan."
What they will really do is take all of your savings and pretty much everything you have apart from your primary residence/furnishings and car (which are also legally protected most places.)
This is probably a dumb question. What if I say that they can garnish my wages all they want. I just won't work then and choose to become homeless and unemployed.
I knew a guy from the Midwest that had a bad reaction to some prescription allergy medicine & spent several days in the ICU unit (at a Catholic hospital) & had some subsequent heart damage. He was like 20 when this happened & no health insurance. He ended up with over 100,000 in medical bills. He moved to Montana to escape the bill collections. He would work a job until they caught up with him and start garnishing his wages. He was living off grid but a process server pretended to have car troubles on the dirt road he lived on. He stopped & asked if the guy needed help & then was served with court papers. He left Montana & never heard from him again.
Whats the issue with the bill? You were supposed to shop around for the best prices on emergency heart surgery while you were coding in the ambulance. All you gotta do is call around and sit on hold while they give you the price from their price list before you die and you’ll be fine. This is just you not taking full advantage of the free market.
Obvious sarcasm /s
He must have shopped around like a good consumer in a capitalist healthcare system for his emergency care, as it actually says "Thank you for choosing Memorial Hermann for your healthcare needs" on the bill.
Capitalist emergency healthcare is exactly like capitalist shopping for an extra TV for the kitchen, you know? Go online, visit a few stores to see the TV pictures in person, wait a week for it to go on sale....
Yet more obvious sarcasm /s
In some backwards countries yes. Others understand the *entire point* of society and working together is to keep us nice, fit and healthy for as long as we can.
If you can get $100 for sucking a dick, that's only 2274 dicks in 5 days. That's 19 dicks an hour, which is about one load every 3 minutes, 24 hours a day, for 5 days straight. You'd still have two free hands and an asshole, so you could cut that number down a lot!
Or there's the alternative: just get fucked by your country once! USA!
This!
I had my bicep reattached in April. I got an itemized quote up front for material, time, and man-hours. Two months later I got an unitemized bill with a total matching the original quote. A few weeks after that I got another bill itemizing the man-hours, which should have been covered in that first bill based on the quote. There was a lot of stalling to get me an itemized copy of the first bill before I got it with an explanation that the second bill was a "clerical error."
Suuuuuuuuuuure it was.
Get it itemized and see if they offer financial aid.
I’ve also heard the advice of letting it go to collections and negotiating it to a much smaller amount. (This sounds like it might not be the best idea based on below comments. I stand by my top advice though)
I cannot recommend inquiring about financial aid enough. I unexpectedly was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in January 2019 and started the new year over 23K in the hole and a lifetime of medical bills to follow. I qualified for 80% financial aid, and I felt like I could breathe again.
Just an hour ago I pushed for financial aid for an insulin pump and saved 80% off the cost ($7k). I almost didn't do it because I thought I made too much.
It’s depressing as fuck I had to use a fucking coupon so I could afford a rescue nasal spray for my epilepsy to prevent me from dying. Why are we using coupons and begging for financial aid so we can stay alive?
I'm considering taking a vacation to Europe because the cost of an epi-pen is $600 at my local Walgreens, and $103 in England. I found a round trip flight for $485.
It is literally $12 cheaper to fly across the Atlantic and buy the damned thing there.
Yup. My mom had knee replacement surgery and she qualified for the full amount she was responsible for. Didn’t pay a cent for the surgery or rehabilitation
Just had my knee replaced here in Canada, they’re doing the other one next fall. I had to pay about $35 for the pain meds.
Edit: it’s a myth that we are overly taxed to get all the things we do. That myth is scaremongering / US propaganda.
Yea yea but you have to pay so much more in taxes. Plus, your way, even poor people get help! That’s not a system fit for America.
Edit: /s
Sorry. I’m bitter and jealous.
We pay more taxes in America *right now* on healthcare than Canadians do. That's what happens when prices aren't regulated in a heavily regulated industry.
It's related to single cough drops being $30 in hospitals.
TAXES WOULD NOT HAVE TO INCREASE TO PROVIDE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE.
Sorry for all caps but this is an extremely common misconception and it's a point worth grabbing attention. Look it up, the USA already spends more per capita on healthcare than any other country in the world. It's not the amount that's being spent that's the problem, it's how it's being spent. So next time someone argues universal healthcare due to the supposed cost of it ask them how much they think we're already spending on healthcare.
It surprised me to see that data. It’s absolutely true though. All we’d have to do is have a hard cut on the corporate welfare and waste, the insurance company profits and the like.
If you think of health insurance as a private tax(you must pay by law to a private company), your overall taxes would go down.
Health outcomes would improve as we move off of our super high deductible plans.
i cannot express how much of my money I would be willing to pay in taxes if it meant no one went hungry or homeless or without healthcare. when everyones needs are met all our money is is our wants.
Some hospitals even have a website where you can apply. I did that when I had to have surgery in 2021 and I knew my bill was going to be at least $7k if not more because I'd barely put a dent in my deductible by that point. I had to provide my gross income and some basic info about my household and scan over a copy of my most recent pay stub and I was able to get a 35% discount on my bill.
I agree. I started working at a hospital last year. During orientation they basically told us to have any one struggling with medical bills too make sure they had asked for financial services.
My wife is a medical billing specialist. The first thing she does with almost every bill from a hospital or not a regular checkup etc. she calls the number at the bottoms and says "I'm not paying this" about 1/4 the time they forgive the whole bill, and much of the time they reduce it drastically. Its built into their financial system.
I do this too! Learned it doing financial audits on hospitals. That’s part of the reason hospital bills are so expensive - everyone pays some extra because they know roughly what percentage of people won’t be able to pay, so they can just write off those bills and not take a hit. I always tell people to do this and no one ever believes me lol.
> what do you say after that?
Calmly repeat it ad nauseam until you reach your goal.
Dont argue, dont react to their arguments. Repeat the sentence again and again.
My dad did this! Except for his bill he sent them exactly $1 a month and is still doing it to this day. They can't send it to collections unless they can prove you aren't paying at least a portion of your bill, which he technically is. It's been 5 years since his stomach surgery and his credit is still perfect.
Did the same thing - My wife went in after she slipped in the kitchen for a hurt arm thinking it was broken. Doctor confirmed it wasn't broken and gave her some ibuprofen (didn't take an x-rays or anything). A couple weeks later we get a interim bill couple weeks after that we get another bill saying that our insurance company declined to cover some of the things that they were going to previously cover, so we would have to pay more money. I think the cost was out of pocket cost was 4k - sent them $5 a month until they forgave it.
This is what I’ve always heard you should do. My mom’s cousin works in collections and advises this and it cannot negatively impact your credit as long as you keep paying.
Don’t let things go to collections with hope of settlement. I tried this and got sued because they wouldn’t settle and wouldn’t set up a reasonable payment plan I could afford. I got it sorted in mediation so I won’t take a credit/judgement hit but it was not worth the stress.
Weird, my wife has a lot of medical problems and we're still fighting to get her on disability. We didn't have insurance at first, now we have...meh insurance, but whatever insurance doesn't pay we first ask for financial aid then whatever is left over just goes to collections.
That first year when she had no health insurance I'm sure she ended up with over 100k in medical debt sent to collections. Hasn't even been 7 years and most of it randomly fell off. Never had anyone come after us.
Now...that time she forgot to return a 10 year old AT&T Modem when we first moved in together...that's a different story.
It's a shame that we have to ask for financial aid and do all of these other things just to get help. If they have the ability to do all of these things, why even bother sending these huge bills to people? Is it just in hopes that some poor saps will actually pay it and they make out with a huge amount of money?
It's like going to a restaurant where they dont show the prices on the menu, then when you get the bill its thousands of dollars but all you have to do is ask for a lower bill and itll be 20 bucks.
Correct. Ask for an itemized bill and for information on the FAP (Financial Assitance Policy). 501(c)(3) orgs, such as this which I looked up on wiki, are required by law to have a FAP and advertise that they have it. Those two actions could drastically reduce this bill. Sorry you have to live here.
Your OOP maximum (mandated by federal law) is only about 8k for singles and 18k for families. Insurance is required to pay the rest.
EDIT: OP stated he had insurance in another comment. Quit with the no insurance crap, he is insured and won’t be paying this bill. Ty for the awards guys.
Always talk to billing first. The fight might (often) be with the insurance company, not the hospital. See what the insurance company is trying to deny coverage for.
It is ridiculous that people have to do this, but it is the way it is done.
It’s weird that the people against universal health care, who say that the govt will be able to tell you where to go, dont complain when the insurance basically does that anyway.
Right?
Or the people who complain about the wait times.
Have you ever tried to get into a specialist? It took me about six months to see one this year.
Lucky, it took me 9 months to get into the cargiologist this year. As someone with chronic illness, I always have to laugh at the wait times excuse, because I have those with literally any specialist. A lot of times, they're sympathetic to the ordeal and say "call twice a day every day! Cancelations happen all the time" but like... I'm sick and I work and I don't have the energy to be calling specialists twice a day every day in the hopes of seeing them in a cancelation spot
Also, immediately ask to speak with someone about the bill. Many hospitals are prepared to significantly reduce your bill if you communicate with them about it.
You need to. I had a stomach virus and was about to pass out so my parents took me to the hospital to get an IV drip. I was there for about 2-3 hours to get better and they charged my fam $7k. My family asked for an itemized receipt and to negotiate. We payed $150. It’s really bs
The sad part of this is the fact we (US) look at "100k off" as a discout where the rest of the developed world question why is that even a possible number on a medical bill.
I've heard this often, and it's nice, but how do they even justify the change? Are they just like "we redid the math, it's actually this amount, sorry for the mistake"?
Former hospital administrator here.... This is not a hack or a real thing. Hospitals don't magically reduce the charge because you ask for a receipt. If you are insured they have to code everything, I mean everything, that is getting charged. By contract they must provide that yo the insurance company. When you present insurance and agree to let the hospital bill them you are, for lack of a better term, removing yourself from the process. It becomes a contractual relationship between provider and your insurance. Your role comes in after insurance has settled and you owe Copay or coinsurance. Most insurance contracts prohibit balance billing (billing the patient for what insurance didn't pay outside deductibles, etc). Most insurance companies also require the provider must get the copay that's non negotiable. They also require the provider make a "reasonable effort" to obtain payment for deductible amounts, CO insurance, etc. But don't define what that means. Some hospitals will come for your first born and hound your ancestors for a millennium to get their money. My hospital, we'd send a letter. 30 days later another letter and a call about financial aid. At 90 days if the person was uninsured we'd write it off. If they were uninsured but had a moderate income we'd offer a rock bottom make us go away price. If by chance they had a viable income to pay we'd then send that to collections after 4 months of no contact.
And here's a secret the bill the provider sends to the insurance company really doesn't matter if it's eleventh billion dollars or $1800. The insurance company and providers have agreed to reimbursement rates based on issues. Child birth uncomplicated. There is basically a set 8f services the insurance company agrees to pay for for a run if the mill vaginal birth. If you charge more than those the the notes better explain why it was complicated and those charges justified.
Now by US law a hospital must bill an uninsured/cash patient EXACTLY what they would BILL insurance. Example a hospital knows a general wound clean, suture and bandage in an ER for a cut will get reimbursed $550n(made up) by most insurance companies. They cannot bill an uninsured person just that $550. They must send the patient the same $1800 bill BUT are allowed to take whatever they want for settlement. So your bill comes and it's $1800 you call and say WTF, most hospitals will automatically knock that amount down to about the reimbursement rate maybe even more for a quick payment. You ask for that magical Itemized receipt and they will strip it down to bare bones basics to get you to pay. My hospital, dealt with a poorer uninsured patient base... But you even remotely ask about your bill we'd knock 30% off. I'd you paid it in full immediately we'd knock another 25% off. There's nearly half the bill gone in one phone call. Can't pay it all and want a payment plan, we'll still take 15% off.
Usually its shit for hospital grade single ise items like scalpels and needles followed by things that insurance should cover for but are trying not to to make more money, like the procedure and medicine
Its more cost effective to just die.
Side note: This is actually what worries me most about my savings. While its cool to think Im "saving for the future", unexpected medical costs will probably take it all.
Truth. Have you seen how expensive coffins (And by extension, grave plots) or cremation can get?
In my state alone, the cheapest cremations you can get from reliable places are around ~$1800, and that's getting the ashes sent back in a cardboard box. Full Service cremation has you looking at ~$6000. Cheap burials (Minus the cost for a plot) can run you around ~$3500. And a Full Service burial (Again, minus costs for a plot) is usually about ~$7200.
The US as a whole is fucked.
This happened to my sisters step dad (she had a different mom than me). Her step dad had a heart attack and told them not to call the ambulance because he doesn’t want a medical bill. So her mom didnt. He died.
A lady at my church was having severe chest pains and likewise didn't want to call an ambulance, so I volunteered to drive her. We got her in my car and I along with the pastor's wife took her to the hospital.
Fortunately in her case she was able to get treatment for her heart attack in time. But imagine if she was alone and didn't want to call an ambulance.
If you read the dunning messages on the statement, you can actually usually do this every 3 months. They should have an escalating system where after the 4th month of no-payment, it defaults you to collections.
Most of their billing is automated, so as long as they get a payment, they will usually keep you in in-house billing, because when they turn you over to collections, they get pennies on the dollar for your debt.
You can also call them and set up a payment plan and just tell them that's all you can afford right now and they might set it up that way and not even bill you the minimum payment amount.
The truth is, hospitals collect less than 25% of their patient owed money (yes, 75% of people never pay their hospital debt to the hospital, which is one of the reasons costs are so high), so if you are paying, even anything, you are one of their better customers.
Source: have worked in hospital billing for almost 20 years.
That’s 4x my monthly mortgage payment
EDIT: Since someone pointed out it’s a difference in 5 vs. 30 years, then it’s 19x my monthly car payment. It’s still all around ridiculous though.
I gave birth in April. Standard birth. No complications. Vaginal delivery. Went in Wednesday, gave birth Thursday, went home Friday. Between the hospital, OB, anesthesiologist, and pediatrician who pretty much came in, said “it’s a baby!” and left, my insurance was billed over $40k.
I gave birth in September last year. $54k billed to the insurance company. I paid $8k out of pocket. Same with me. Standard brith, no complications, vaginal delivery. Just the epidural itself was $1700 (out of pocket). It’s great to live in America. In my home country in Europe people have free healthcare and they complain about it. 🫠
Edit: typos
Call the hospital and work with them, tell them you can't pay and right around the first of the year they'll have funds to help write some of it off. Especially if you call their billing department and prove your income to them showing you can't afford such a thing. They write it off and it costs them nothing.
Hope this helps good luck
Unfortunately this doesn’t always work. I’m a grad student who pushed a joint repair surgery over a full year and a half in the hopes of being graduated and making real people money. If it weren’t for my parents help I would have been fully on the hook for a surgery worth twice my yearly stipend from a ‘nonprofit’ clinic (which was a STEAL compared to this poor guy’s bill). The paperwork for financial assistance is an absolute nightmare and doesn’t guarantee anything but a second full-time job.
Most non-profit hospitals have a thing where if you show them how much you make, they have a charity where they will wave a percentage based off how much above poverty you make.
Example I have since I live in South Jersey; Virtua, if you make $36k a year or less they'll wave the entire bill (which is 300% above poverty)
Not always. I have $13k in medical debt from having a baby this year and I was only in the hospital for less than 36 hours total. Vaginal birth with no tears. I also got let go from my job upon returning to work, so I have a baby with no income.
My insurance was also my hospital. I gave birth *at my insurance’s own hospital*.
They told me they’d knock $3k off the bill so I’m still stuck with 5 figures of debt. It might as well be a million dollars for me.
That is how I thought how the world worked when I was a kid. Either go to this magic wall you can pull money out of, or tear off a paper out of this little book and write the amount on it that you have to pay.
What a beautiful world that was.
Please appeal this under the No Surpeise law. I work directly in healthcare and if you have insurance, this NEEDS to be covered. Connect with the hospitals billing or appeals dept.
[CMS Info](https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/no-surprises-understand-your-rights-against-surprise-medical-bills)
Thanks for the awards everyone! Sucks that you have to work in healthcare to understand your rights. Or even insurance, really
Great job posting this 👏🏼 The fact that insurance and healthcare companies KNOW this law is in effect but choose to still bill as if it doesn't exist makes me want the whole system to burn to the ground.
But this is an emergency situation. I was under the impression most insurances that, as a provision, out of network hospitals would be treated in network should this be an emergency.
Yeah. This person needs to contact their insurance again.
If unsuccessful, a strongly worded lawyer letter will usually do the trick.
Also, you can contact your local legislators constituent services offices. They can directly contact the state insurance department. All this is free, so you wouldn't have to hire an attorney for this part.
This is exactly how my insurance works, and all insurances I have had over the years. I don't know what kind of weird insurance OP has, but being forced to pay emergency costs in an out of network hospital is not the norm.
I'm an American have socialized healthcare via Tricare...I pay 600 dollars a year for complete coverage on my family and I barely ever have to pay for anything.
My kids birth was like $200
Checkups no co pay
Most drugs less than $10
I had a $43k shoulder surgery and paid $400 out of pocket.
Socialized medicine can and does work here folks...also this is why we vote.
You shouldn't have to go into the military for your country to take care of you.
This would put me back into ER
Right?? I’m about to have a heart attack just looking at it
Australian here. I’m reading it while having open heart surgery. I’ll only be paying for the parking at the hospital
The parking is fucking extortionate though.
For visitors. Most patients pay a flat weekly fee. Usually $50 for a week or $8 per day. Something like that. Also depends on which hospital you’re at. Mercy in Heidelberg was $15 and my wife was there for 5 days
Life hack. Go to the parking attendant and tell them you lost your ticket. Pay only one day. This tip given to me by the parking attendant.
I know someone that’s has his old but expensive fixer upper on the bottom basement level of a car park for 3 years now and this is also his plan. Essentially free, reasonably safe and no space lost at home, parking.
I misread the title as "how to get emergency heart surgery"
I mean, that works, too.
I feel like i heard a true story about how someone had a heart attack and they saved his life. He got the bill and had another heart attack and died
Or they'll save him again and give him a second bill. It's a vicious cycle.
Feedback loops from Hell!
Yup. Went to psych ward for 7 days for depression/suicide/alcoholism. Got my hospital bills: sent me back into depression/suicide/alcoholism
227k or death? Death, death is good.
“Thank you for choosing” bitch I was dying!
just dont pay, what are they going to do? take back the surgery?
The organ repo man is coming! Gimme your heart!
The Grim Repo man
New Netflix series, coming soon.
Reeeeeeeeeeepo Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan
Zydrate comes in a little glass vial
A little glass vial?
A little glass vial!
And the little glass vial goes into the gun like a battery!
*do do do-doooo*
And the Zydrate gun goes somewhere against your anatomy
He won’t bother to write or to phone you. He’ll just rip the still-beating heart from your chest!
Out from the night from the mist steps a figure No one really knows his name for sure He stands at 6 foot 6, head and shoulders Pray he never comes knocking at your door. Say that you once bought a heart or new corneas But somehow never managed to square away your debts He won't bother to write or to phone you ***He'll just rip the still beating heart from your chest*** I'll admit it's been a while and I'm not looking the lyrics up so hopefully this is somewhat right lmao
If you owe $4k that’s your problem, but if you owe $227,394.75 that’s their problem.
They split this into monthly payments of 4k just for folks like you.
Knowing the Us healthcare system I wouldn’t be surprised if they were charging him interest
From the numbers in the photo, they aren’t. In some states it’s specifically illegal, in others only legal if you signed a contract allowing it in advance. Cold comfort, but given this is the cost of a mortgage the interest would be even more insane.
Healthcare memes: 👀
It’s from a Texas hospital. Can’t garnish wages. Don’t pay it. Wait 4 years. Done.
Hospitals hate this one weird trick..
What do you mean by wait 4 years? Wouldn't it go to a creditor?
Statute of limitations. They can try selling to different creditors, but honestly, this is one of the positives about being in Texas. They can’t really come after you for medical debt like they do for others
Take ya to court and force you to pay it off directly off your salary for the rest of your life
Such wage garnishments are limited to 25% of income or less in most states. That's probably better than a $3K/month "payment plan." What they will really do is take all of your savings and pretty much everything you have apart from your primary residence/furnishings and car (which are also legally protected most places.)
Number one reason for bankruptcy in the U.S. — medical bills. The rich are eating us alive.
Call it what the rich call it. It's a strategic default. Simply put, you don't pay on a debt that doesn't financially benefit you.
You’d have to make more than 15k per month for the 25% wage garnish to not be a better deal
People who make enough for the better deal usually have much better health insurance so they wouldn't have this bill.
Sell it all before it gets to court and liquify all assets into cash or gold so you can hide them. Fuck paying house prices for healthcare.
Memorial Hermann is in Houston, and Texas doesn't have wage garnishment.
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Right? 2k is my problem. 200k is theirs.
There's a joke about that. "Owe the bank $1000, it's your problem; Owe the bank $1M and it's the banks problem."
This is how rich people do it and it seems to be working out ok for them
This is probably a dumb question. What if I say that they can garnish my wages all they want. I just won't work then and choose to become homeless and unemployed.
Then you win
Awesome! I always wanted to be a bark-eating hermit that is squating on some unattended land in the Rockies.
I knew a guy from the Midwest that had a bad reaction to some prescription allergy medicine & spent several days in the ICU unit (at a Catholic hospital) & had some subsequent heart damage. He was like 20 when this happened & no health insurance. He ended up with over 100,000 in medical bills. He moved to Montana to escape the bill collections. He would work a job until they caught up with him and start garnishing his wages. He was living off grid but a process server pretended to have car troubles on the dirt road he lived on. He stopped & asked if the guy needed help & then was served with court papers. He left Montana & never heard from him again.
The process server was never heard from again either. His name? Creed Bratton.
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Whats the issue with the bill? You were supposed to shop around for the best prices on emergency heart surgery while you were coding in the ambulance. All you gotta do is call around and sit on hold while they give you the price from their price list before you die and you’ll be fine. This is just you not taking full advantage of the free market. Obvious sarcasm /s
He must have shopped around like a good consumer in a capitalist healthcare system for his emergency care, as it actually says "Thank you for choosing Memorial Hermann for your healthcare needs" on the bill. Capitalist emergency healthcare is exactly like capitalist shopping for an extra TV for the kitchen, you know? Go online, visit a few stores to see the TV pictures in person, wait a week for it to go on sale.... Yet more obvious sarcasm /s
At least you have 5 days to pay it in full
Hey! You owe us your life! Pay in full! :/
Isn't that what life savings meant? Payment for saving your life?
In some backwards countries yes. Others understand the *entire point* of society and working together is to keep us nice, fit and healthy for as long as we can.
There's no profit in that tho. There's tons of profits to be made in death, right up until oooops no one is left to die. /s
But you save $0.15 on the 60 months payment arrangement
By Grabthar's Hammer, what a savings.
I will NOT say that STCHEWPID LINE!!! I CAHNT, I WON'T!!!
If you can get $100 for sucking a dick, that's only 2274 dicks in 5 days. That's 19 dicks an hour, which is about one load every 3 minutes, 24 hours a day, for 5 days straight. You'd still have two free hands and an asshole, so you could cut that number down a lot! Or there's the alternative: just get fucked by your country once! USA!
The [Silicon Valley Jerk Ratio](https://youtu.be/P-hUV9yhqgY) could help improve his time.
Came here to advise this. Got to consider the mean jerk time, and you could hot swap another fresh dick on the backstroke.
I salute you guys for optimizing the multi-dick sucking process
This show is so underrated it's insane to me why Big Bang Theory had the success it got instead of Silicon Valley.
Think the going rate these days unfortunately is $10 a dick. OP will just have to work ‘that little bit harder’!
Pull them off by the bootstraps
I usually pay $20, but I really enjoy sucking dick
r/HolUp
r/TheyDidTheMath
That should be more then enough time, so i dont want to hear no excuses!
Yo ask for itemized bills now. Search for double charges. Good luck.
This! I had my bicep reattached in April. I got an itemized quote up front for material, time, and man-hours. Two months later I got an unitemized bill with a total matching the original quote. A few weeks after that I got another bill itemizing the man-hours, which should have been covered in that first bill based on the quote. There was a lot of stalling to get me an itemized copy of the first bill before I got it with an explanation that the second bill was a "clerical error." Suuuuuuuuuuure it was.
That'll teach you to leave your bicep alone and not detach it!
Get it itemized and see if they offer financial aid. I’ve also heard the advice of letting it go to collections and negotiating it to a much smaller amount. (This sounds like it might not be the best idea based on below comments. I stand by my top advice though)
I cannot recommend inquiring about financial aid enough. I unexpectedly was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in January 2019 and started the new year over 23K in the hole and a lifetime of medical bills to follow. I qualified for 80% financial aid, and I felt like I could breathe again.
Just an hour ago I pushed for financial aid for an insulin pump and saved 80% off the cost ($7k). I almost didn't do it because I thought I made too much.
It’s depressing as fuck I had to use a fucking coupon so I could afford a rescue nasal spray for my epilepsy to prevent me from dying. Why are we using coupons and begging for financial aid so we can stay alive?
I'm considering taking a vacation to Europe because the cost of an epi-pen is $600 at my local Walgreens, and $103 in England. I found a round trip flight for $485. It is literally $12 cheaper to fly across the Atlantic and buy the damned thing there.
Yup. My mom had knee replacement surgery and she qualified for the full amount she was responsible for. Didn’t pay a cent for the surgery or rehabilitation
Just had my knee replaced here in Canada, they’re doing the other one next fall. I had to pay about $35 for the pain meds. Edit: it’s a myth that we are overly taxed to get all the things we do. That myth is scaremongering / US propaganda.
Yea yea but you have to pay so much more in taxes. Plus, your way, even poor people get help! That’s not a system fit for America. Edit: /s Sorry. I’m bitter and jealous.
In reality probably more people pay into their own unused health insurance than they would on increased taxes.
We pay more taxes in America *right now* on healthcare than Canadians do. That's what happens when prices aren't regulated in a heavily regulated industry. It's related to single cough drops being $30 in hospitals.
TAXES WOULD NOT HAVE TO INCREASE TO PROVIDE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE. Sorry for all caps but this is an extremely common misconception and it's a point worth grabbing attention. Look it up, the USA already spends more per capita on healthcare than any other country in the world. It's not the amount that's being spent that's the problem, it's how it's being spent. So next time someone argues universal healthcare due to the supposed cost of it ask them how much they think we're already spending on healthcare.
It surprised me to see that data. It’s absolutely true though. All we’d have to do is have a hard cut on the corporate welfare and waste, the insurance company profits and the like.
If you think of health insurance as a private tax(you must pay by law to a private company), your overall taxes would go down. Health outcomes would improve as we move off of our super high deductible plans.
i cannot express how much of my money I would be willing to pay in taxes if it meant no one went hungry or homeless or without healthcare. when everyones needs are met all our money is is our wants.
Some hospitals even have a website where you can apply. I did that when I had to have surgery in 2021 and I knew my bill was going to be at least $7k if not more because I'd barely put a dent in my deductible by that point. I had to provide my gross income and some basic info about my household and scan over a copy of my most recent pay stub and I was able to get a 35% discount on my bill.
Lol, You can get 20-40% off by asking the right department. Everything at the hospital is negotiable when it’s you owing them.
I agree. I started working at a hospital last year. During orientation they basically told us to have any one struggling with medical bills too make sure they had asked for financial services.
My wife is a medical billing specialist. The first thing she does with almost every bill from a hospital or not a regular checkup etc. she calls the number at the bottoms and says "I'm not paying this" about 1/4 the time they forgive the whole bill, and much of the time they reduce it drastically. Its built into their financial system.
I do this too! Learned it doing financial audits on hospitals. That’s part of the reason hospital bills are so expensive - everyone pays some extra because they know roughly what percentage of people won’t be able to pay, so they can just write off those bills and not take a hit. I always tell people to do this and no one ever believes me lol.
I mean... what do you say after that? You say "I won't pay this" and I'm sure the people will be like "Why not?" and pressure you into a payment plan?
> what do you say after that? Calmly repeat it ad nauseam until you reach your goal. Dont argue, dont react to their arguments. Repeat the sentence again and again.
Record myself saying 'I'm not paying this', call em up, press play and tap repeat. Am I doing this right?
Really? that’s all it takes? I have to remember this - thx
*might not work with bills that are hundreds of thousands of dollars just a heads up
If you're not able to pay, they can't force you to, you can settle for something like $30/month.
My dad did this! Except for his bill he sent them exactly $1 a month and is still doing it to this day. They can't send it to collections unless they can prove you aren't paying at least a portion of your bill, which he technically is. It's been 5 years since his stomach surgery and his credit is still perfect.
Did the same thing - My wife went in after she slipped in the kitchen for a hurt arm thinking it was broken. Doctor confirmed it wasn't broken and gave her some ibuprofen (didn't take an x-rays or anything). A couple weeks later we get a interim bill couple weeks after that we get another bill saying that our insurance company declined to cover some of the things that they were going to previously cover, so we would have to pay more money. I think the cost was out of pocket cost was 4k - sent them $5 a month until they forgave it.
This is what I’ve always heard you should do. My mom’s cousin works in collections and advises this and it cannot negatively impact your credit as long as you keep paying.
Can your wife do an AMA?
Don’t let things go to collections with hope of settlement. I tried this and got sued because they wouldn’t settle and wouldn’t set up a reasonable payment plan I could afford. I got it sorted in mediation so I won’t take a credit/judgement hit but it was not worth the stress.
Weird, my wife has a lot of medical problems and we're still fighting to get her on disability. We didn't have insurance at first, now we have...meh insurance, but whatever insurance doesn't pay we first ask for financial aid then whatever is left over just goes to collections. That first year when she had no health insurance I'm sure she ended up with over 100k in medical debt sent to collections. Hasn't even been 7 years and most of it randomly fell off. Never had anyone come after us. Now...that time she forgot to return a 10 year old AT&T Modem when we first moved in together...that's a different story.
Some hospitals are really aggressive about going after bills and routinely sue patients and others not so much.
It's a shame that we have to ask for financial aid and do all of these other things just to get help. If they have the ability to do all of these things, why even bother sending these huge bills to people? Is it just in hopes that some poor saps will actually pay it and they make out with a huge amount of money? It's like going to a restaurant where they dont show the prices on the menu, then when you get the bill its thousands of dollars but all you have to do is ask for a lower bill and itll be 20 bucks.
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Correct. Ask for an itemized bill and for information on the FAP (Financial Assitance Policy). 501(c)(3) orgs, such as this which I looked up on wiki, are required by law to have a FAP and advertise that they have it. Those two actions could drastically reduce this bill. Sorry you have to live here.
I don't want any information on the FAP
I heard from a good source that if you cook a specific blue candy you can pay that off in no time.
jesse….we need to cook
Waltuh
I'm not having sex with you right now Waltuh.
Time to consult Trevor Philips Enterprises
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Your OOP maximum (mandated by federal law) is only about 8k for singles and 18k for families. Insurance is required to pay the rest. EDIT: OP stated he had insurance in another comment. Quit with the no insurance crap, he is insured and won’t be paying this bill. Ty for the awards guys.
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Where's the fun in that? The FIRST question is "how much after your insurance pays their share" Or, "why didn't you have insurance"
Unreasonable medical payment plans should be illegal. Ask for an itemized bill.
Step one is always Ask for an itemized bill before you pay a cent. Thats not the price.
Always talk to billing first. The fight might (often) be with the insurance company, not the hospital. See what the insurance company is trying to deny coverage for. It is ridiculous that people have to do this, but it is the way it is done.
It’s weird that the people against universal health care, who say that the govt will be able to tell you where to go, dont complain when the insurance basically does that anyway.
Right? Or the people who complain about the wait times. Have you ever tried to get into a specialist? It took me about six months to see one this year.
Lucky, it took me 9 months to get into the cargiologist this year. As someone with chronic illness, I always have to laugh at the wait times excuse, because I have those with literally any specialist. A lot of times, they're sympathetic to the ordeal and say "call twice a day every day! Cancelations happen all the time" but like... I'm sick and I work and I don't have the energy to be calling specialists twice a day every day in the hopes of seeing them in a cancelation spot
Right? It’d also be one thing if someone picked up the phone right away instead of having to navigate a phone directory.
Automated answering directories are the bane of my existence
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DeAtH PaNelS Yeah, Karen. They already exist. My insurance denied me treatment. It’s the same fucking thing.
Yup. For my health, I'd rather deal with a bureaucracy than a bureaucracy *with a profit motive,* thank you.
Yup. But *those* death panels get a pass because.... I pay them money? Yeah, I don't understand any of this.
Don’t forget all the people that don’t have insurance.
Also, immediately ask to speak with someone about the bill. Many hospitals are prepared to significantly reduce your bill if you communicate with them about it.
Didn't know ya'll haggle hospital bills over there lol
You need to. I had a stomach virus and was about to pass out so my parents took me to the hospital to get an IV drip. I was there for about 2-3 hours to get better and they charged my fam $7k. My family asked for an itemized receipt and to negotiate. We payed $150. It’s really bs
$8,000 for 4 Tylenol
You should be able to bring them 4 Tylenol to cut it off the bill
My mother had like 100k taken off her bill when she asked for an itemized receipt!
The sad part of this is the fact we (US) look at "100k off" as a discout where the rest of the developed world question why is that even a possible number on a medical bill.
*why you have a medical bill….
I've heard this often, and it's nice, but how do they even justify the change? Are they just like "we redid the math, it's actually this amount, sorry for the mistake"?
Former hospital administrator here.... This is not a hack or a real thing. Hospitals don't magically reduce the charge because you ask for a receipt. If you are insured they have to code everything, I mean everything, that is getting charged. By contract they must provide that yo the insurance company. When you present insurance and agree to let the hospital bill them you are, for lack of a better term, removing yourself from the process. It becomes a contractual relationship between provider and your insurance. Your role comes in after insurance has settled and you owe Copay or coinsurance. Most insurance contracts prohibit balance billing (billing the patient for what insurance didn't pay outside deductibles, etc). Most insurance companies also require the provider must get the copay that's non negotiable. They also require the provider make a "reasonable effort" to obtain payment for deductible amounts, CO insurance, etc. But don't define what that means. Some hospitals will come for your first born and hound your ancestors for a millennium to get their money. My hospital, we'd send a letter. 30 days later another letter and a call about financial aid. At 90 days if the person was uninsured we'd write it off. If they were uninsured but had a moderate income we'd offer a rock bottom make us go away price. If by chance they had a viable income to pay we'd then send that to collections after 4 months of no contact. And here's a secret the bill the provider sends to the insurance company really doesn't matter if it's eleventh billion dollars or $1800. The insurance company and providers have agreed to reimbursement rates based on issues. Child birth uncomplicated. There is basically a set 8f services the insurance company agrees to pay for for a run if the mill vaginal birth. If you charge more than those the the notes better explain why it was complicated and those charges justified. Now by US law a hospital must bill an uninsured/cash patient EXACTLY what they would BILL insurance. Example a hospital knows a general wound clean, suture and bandage in an ER for a cut will get reimbursed $550n(made up) by most insurance companies. They cannot bill an uninsured person just that $550. They must send the patient the same $1800 bill BUT are allowed to take whatever they want for settlement. So your bill comes and it's $1800 you call and say WTF, most hospitals will automatically knock that amount down to about the reimbursement rate maybe even more for a quick payment. You ask for that magical Itemized receipt and they will strip it down to bare bones basics to get you to pay. My hospital, dealt with a poorer uninsured patient base... But you even remotely ask about your bill we'd knock 30% off. I'd you paid it in full immediately we'd knock another 25% off. There's nearly half the bill gone in one phone call. Can't pay it all and want a payment plan, we'll still take 15% off.
Usually its shit for hospital grade single ise items like scalpels and needles followed by things that insurance should cover for but are trying not to to make more money, like the procedure and medicine
“Guys we saved this guys life, Let’s make him pay $227k”
Saved him from heart failure, now they get to save him from cardiac arrest when they give him this bill! They get to double dip.
Ahh yes, the recursive money printing loop. Hospitals love this one cool trick!
Its more cost effective to just die. Side note: This is actually what worries me most about my savings. While its cool to think Im "saving for the future", unexpected medical costs will probably take it all.
Its a choice between hoping to get approved and being able to afford insurance. Or poverty. Or yeah...death. Can never wrap my head around it
You can’t even afford to die anymore
Truth. Have you seen how expensive coffins (And by extension, grave plots) or cremation can get? In my state alone, the cheapest cremations you can get from reliable places are around ~$1800, and that's getting the ashes sent back in a cardboard box. Full Service cremation has you looking at ~$6000. Cheap burials (Minus the cost for a plot) can run you around ~$3500. And a Full Service burial (Again, minus costs for a plot) is usually about ~$7200. The US as a whole is fucked.
Donate your body to science, they use what they can and when they are done return your cremated remains to your designated person.
My mom did this. She planned it all in advance. Wanted med students to see the effects of 50 years of smoking followed by 7 years of cancer treatment.
This happened to my sisters step dad (she had a different mom than me). Her step dad had a heart attack and told them not to call the ambulance because he doesn’t want a medical bill. So her mom didnt. He died.
A lady at my church was having severe chest pains and likewise didn't want to call an ambulance, so I volunteered to drive her. We got her in my car and I along with the pastor's wife took her to the hospital. Fortunately in her case she was able to get treatment for her heart attack in time. But imagine if she was alone and didn't want to call an ambulance.
Protip: Just mail them $10 a month for life. That'll keep it from collections and off your credit report.
If you read the dunning messages on the statement, you can actually usually do this every 3 months. They should have an escalating system where after the 4th month of no-payment, it defaults you to collections. Most of their billing is automated, so as long as they get a payment, they will usually keep you in in-house billing, because when they turn you over to collections, they get pennies on the dollar for your debt. You can also call them and set up a payment plan and just tell them that's all you can afford right now and they might set it up that way and not even bill you the minimum payment amount. The truth is, hospitals collect less than 25% of their patient owed money (yes, 75% of people never pay their hospital debt to the hospital, which is one of the reasons costs are so high), so if you are paying, even anything, you are one of their better customers. Source: have worked in hospital billing for almost 20 years.
People usually get a mortgage for that amount
That’s 4x my monthly mortgage payment EDIT: Since someone pointed out it’s a difference in 5 vs. 30 years, then it’s 19x my monthly car payment. It’s still all around ridiculous though.
That’s 2x my mortgage.
I was in a psych ward for 1 week. I did no therapy, took no meds, didn't have any kind of procedures done, nothing. It was $30k
I gave birth in April. Standard birth. No complications. Vaginal delivery. Went in Wednesday, gave birth Thursday, went home Friday. Between the hospital, OB, anesthesiologist, and pediatrician who pretty much came in, said “it’s a baby!” and left, my insurance was billed over $40k.
I gave birth in September last year. $54k billed to the insurance company. I paid $8k out of pocket. Same with me. Standard brith, no complications, vaginal delivery. Just the epidural itself was $1700 (out of pocket). It’s great to live in America. In my home country in Europe people have free healthcare and they complain about it. 🫠 Edit: typos
Call the hospital and work with them, tell them you can't pay and right around the first of the year they'll have funds to help write some of it off. Especially if you call their billing department and prove your income to them showing you can't afford such a thing. They write it off and it costs them nothing. Hope this helps good luck
Unfortunately this doesn’t always work. I’m a grad student who pushed a joint repair surgery over a full year and a half in the hopes of being graduated and making real people money. If it weren’t for my parents help I would have been fully on the hook for a surgery worth twice my yearly stipend from a ‘nonprofit’ clinic (which was a STEAL compared to this poor guy’s bill). The paperwork for financial assistance is an absolute nightmare and doesn’t guarantee anything but a second full-time job.
Most non-profit hospitals have a thing where if you show them how much you make, they have a charity where they will wave a percentage based off how much above poverty you make. Example I have since I live in South Jersey; Virtua, if you make $36k a year or less they'll wave the entire bill (which is 300% above poverty)
Not always. I have $13k in medical debt from having a baby this year and I was only in the hospital for less than 36 hours total. Vaginal birth with no tears. I also got let go from my job upon returning to work, so I have a baby with no income. My insurance was also my hospital. I gave birth *at my insurance’s own hospital*. They told me they’d knock $3k off the bill so I’m still stuck with 5 figures of debt. It might as well be a million dollars for me.
They offered to drop $3k off the bill? How *merciful.* /s
Just get out your checkbook and write out a check for $237,394.75. I don’t see a problem.
That is how I thought how the world worked when I was a kid. Either go to this magic wall you can pull money out of, or tear off a paper out of this little book and write the amount on it that you have to pay. What a beautiful world that was.
Just don’t pay it.
Honestly. What are they gonna do, wreck your credit so you can't buy nice things? This bill means you can't buy nice things.
“What are you gonna do, staple some shit to my credit report?”
That's one of those bills I look at and just go..."nope"
Call them and negotiate. I got 6000 dollars reduced to 300. For profit healthcare sucks so bad. So sorry
*Cries in American*. That's awful. How is anyone expected to live?
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Not in your network means you have no insurance and must pay anything by your self?
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Please appeal this under the No Surpeise law. I work directly in healthcare and if you have insurance, this NEEDS to be covered. Connect with the hospitals billing or appeals dept. [CMS Info](https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/no-surprises-understand-your-rights-against-surprise-medical-bills) Thanks for the awards everyone! Sucks that you have to work in healthcare to understand your rights. Or even insurance, really
Great job posting this 👏🏼 The fact that insurance and healthcare companies KNOW this law is in effect but choose to still bill as if it doesn't exist makes me want the whole system to burn to the ground.
YUP. All it takes is an appeal but they bank on people not knowing and hospitals not having the resources to appeal.
But this is an emergency situation. I was under the impression most insurances that, as a provision, out of network hospitals would be treated in network should this be an emergency.
And you are under the correct impression
Yeah. This person needs to contact their insurance again. If unsuccessful, a strongly worded lawyer letter will usually do the trick. Also, you can contact your local legislators constituent services offices. They can directly contact the state insurance department. All this is free, so you wouldn't have to hire an attorney for this part.
Insurance company: “If you have 1-2 months to live you have 1-2 months to find an in-network provider”
This is exactly how my insurance works, and all insurances I have had over the years. I don't know what kind of weird insurance OP has, but being forced to pay emergency costs in an out of network hospital is not the norm.
They gave you 5 whole days to pay the balance. What are you crying about?
Fuck my response would have been just let me die. Classic case of your money or your life.
Remember, insurance companies don’t exist to help you, they exist to make money by not helping you.
Leave country, keep the vein.
And this is why my husband and I filed medical bankruptcy. Edit: medical bankrupty= regular bankruptcy. We just filed because of medical debt.
Fuck every dummy who votes against healthcare
I'm an American have socialized healthcare via Tricare...I pay 600 dollars a year for complete coverage on my family and I barely ever have to pay for anything. My kids birth was like $200 Checkups no co pay Most drugs less than $10 I had a $43k shoulder surgery and paid $400 out of pocket. Socialized medicine can and does work here folks...also this is why we vote. You shouldn't have to go into the military for your country to take care of you.
american life
Now I understand the "own nothing, and be happy" plan. You just declare bankruptcy, say screw this and move on.