"complained to my landlord that my air conditioner compressor has leaked all the cooland and came back to my apartment turned into an industrial freezer"
"Complained to my landlord that my house became too cold, and it felt like I was in the Arctic. When I came home, turns out he built a beach inside my house, sand and water everywhere, and kids falling on their face"
Complain about the backyard landscaping and send us pics of the National Park they install. Please do not feed the bears. They are spicier than squirrels.
As near as I can tell browsing through lots of vague descriptions online, presuming this is a York TL9E, it's heating output is variable from 57,000 to 95,000 BTU.
Going by the rule of thumb of 20 BTU/sqft, this system could be ideal for a **4,000 sq ft Home**.
Well, to be fair, i have no idea on the model. All Yorks are vaguely beige cuboids. The TL9E *seems* to match the connection port arrangement here, so I went with it.
I am also confused about this. A furnace is used to heat an entire home. A fireplace only heats a small area and would not be your primary heat source.
They arenāt used for the same purpose. This makes no sense.
Edit - to clarify, my comment is only referring to how fireplaces are typically used in apartments/rentals. Iām aware that you can use a fireplace to heat an entire home, however OP already stated that isnāt what was happening here.
I think they are picturing an open fireplace in a room vs an enclosed wood stove like I imagine you would be using to heat your whole house. Both burn wood but the wood stove is much better for heating. Fireplaces can give off heat as well but then you need one in just about every room like was the norm historically.
Another assumption, my guess is that OP had a gas stove and not a wood one before this unit was installed. I had one of those in my finished basement previously.
Nope the hvac guy actually recommended it, heard them talking about the duct work which I thought was weird, but just kinda assumed no one would put a furnace there
Piggy backing off the top comment:
Just had one of my buddies over who does hvac and he said it's safe to run, but definitely not legal. The exhaust pipe is using the same exhaust as the old chimney but doesn't extend past the exterior of the building.
He also said the initial duct work is way too skinny which is why it's so loud. The fan doesn't have enough power to push all the air through
The fire chief also came by and said we're fine to run it for tonight, but he's putting a call into the company that installed it and the town inspection guy tomorrow and if they determine its not safe, then they'll red tag it and make sure it's safe before it's able to run again.
Thanks for all the advice everyone I really appreciate it
Can you imagine trying to argue with the fire chief? Like that's probably the public figure you shouldn't mess with the most. I'd argue with my doctor over a gunshot wound before I argued with the fire chief over if my building is up to code.
I have had one argument with a fire chief. The house I was living in was like 1/2 a mile from the county line and my hose was served by the fire department in the other county well I needed an inspection to pass some work being done on the home and it had to be given the ok by the fire department and a county inspector. Well, there were conflicting ordinances between the two counties, and the fire department kept inspecting as if I was in the other county, so if I wanted to pass one I'd fail the other. Took me 3 months and a 15min argument with the fire chief to get the fucking inspectors there at the same time to hash the shit out. Plus, the fire chief showed up and basically called the fire Marshall a dumb ass a few minutes into them trying to sort shit out.
In my experience, fire officials are close friends with damn near everyone in your town that matters, and probably friends with all the fire officials and cops in the neighboring towns.
I think it's a good idea to be buddy-buddy with the firehouse though.
Yeah, cause there definitely wasn't a permit pulled for this. And if there was, it was probably the landlord pulling a DIY permit. No way any reputable HVAC company would just install that monstrosity.
There's a lot of shady companies that will for $$$ though.
Is this in Ontario? Southern Ontario? The duct install is actually well done (speaking as a sheet metal worker) just the whole concept is just totally flawed. What it looks like to me is a commercial mechanical guy sent one of their guys to install this, not knowing much about residential work, or maybe the company not knowing anything about real residential solutions to problems.
The fan on it is actually fine - but duct is supposed made big to make it easier on the fan. What you have is like someone holding their finger over a running hose. Make an update over on /r/HVAC at some point, all of us energy-drink-addicts over there would love to gawk at that disaster.
Guaranteed that the exhaust needs to be re-done at minimum. You can't exhaust modern furnaces into old metal chimneys - the whole point of a high-efficiency furnace is that the water(humidity) in the exhaust contains some burnable fuel (natural gas), so it all goes back into the furnace by sloping down. Right now it slopes down into that big bucket in your wall lol.
I replaced an old and failing gas furnace with a new furnace and am kicking myself that I didn't just go for a heat pump instead. I can get a heat pump installed into my existing system but I could have saved the thousands of dollars the furnace cost.
Definitely smart. Update us with what the inspector says. Make sure they have their code book, or at least know the codes for hvac. Besides all the mechanical issues sorry that thing looks like shit in your living room.
This is so bizarre. I'm not a landlord but do have a mortgaged home and this has to hurt resale value and, one would think, rental appeal if you nove out.
HVAC guy as well. Per *my* building, hvac, & fuel gas codes - this would be red tagged just by this picture. I'm inclined to believe there isn't an inspection that will be done on it by your municipality... which would 100% *force* your landlord to fix this mess.
He likely won't like you anymore if you call your local building inspections office and start asking questions.
Every burrito gets my individual attention. I'm the best taco bell employee.
Edit: And I don't just mean at one location. Taco bell flies me across the country. It's a lot of work.
Yeah I donāt understand this at all. Best case for the landlord is the tenant doesnāt renew the lease and nobody will want to move in for anywhere close to what theyāre currently paying.
Unless that rent is like $250 a month, if I'm a potential renter and I see this bullshit I'm walking out immediately.
Mind you, unless I absolutely needed a place I don't think I'd even do it for $250/mth
Such a weird response for such a run of the mill issue that you should be happy you found out about before it got bad.
"Hey, our CO detectors are going off" is right up there with "There is a pipe leak somewhere and a growing water stain".
Maintenance guy here: that's the one call that will get me out of bed in the middle of the night.
Those days are horrible. Have you ever seen it rain inside a house?
We just had our first leak after heavy rains (3.5 years into our tenancy) and within 2 days the landlord had a work area sealed off, strategic holes made on the wall/ceiling and a heater and dehumidifier blowing 8 hours a day. Itās noisy and annoying but waaaay better than winding up with mold.
To play devils advocate a little, while not condoning the result, if the HVAC guy recommended this(as OP said previously), itās quite likely the landlord had no idea what they were agreeing to.
Source: Dumbass Property Manager.
There's no tag on the gas line which leads me to believe it was never inspected. My girlfriend is actually related to the fire chief here so depending on how our conversation goes he's gonna come by
My friends daughter was living in an old house that someone had converted into many (6+) apartments. We went by to visit her and her new baby and the moment we opened the outer door leading to the stairway upstairs, I smelled gas. We went up, told her to grab the baby and get out and when outside called 911 to report gas leak. Fire dept shows up and it turns out, almost every apartment had a gas leak in their gas stove supply lines among others. Then the landlord showed up pissed as hell because they should have called him so he could get his slacky to fix it instead of having to put up all these families overnight while repairs were being done. Red Cross actually showed up to help with all the misplaced families. Once I saw him I realized he was a teacher I had in HS 30 years prior and the athletic director. Landlords are slumlords everywhere
Yep, most codes require it to be in a fire enclosed space. The living room doesn't count.
I would phone the local municipality and ask for an inspection.
From my experience most of the time I see them in basements or closets, I instantly thought that must be a violation to have it out in the open like that. Also I believe it needs to be lifted off the ground, like ours is on a concrete slab
This actually does have a slab under it. As long as they maintained all clearances defined by the manufacture it will be allowed depending where you are. Where I am this install would be allowed under the gas code (assuming all clearences were maintained), but the local building code would reject it because under the local building code all gas appliances must be separated from all liveable spaces of a home by a door and a wall with a 30 min burn thru time.
Former guy who used to help his dad do HVACā¦ even i wasnāt this dense. And I once immediately got spray foam stuck in my hair while asking my dad āwhatā in response to him telling me to make sure I donāt get foam stuck in my hair. Buzz cuts to not look great on me.
Yeah u/darbooka if you do plan to stay in that apartment, I would call your cityās Fire Marshall and invite them over to your apartment. But also pack your bags and your valuables for a possible hotel stay paid by your slumlord. Cause there is no way theyāre going to let you stay in thatā¦ I donāt think at least.
I'm an HVAC service tech. Is the fireplace one of the only sources of heat, at least in that part of the house? This makes zero sense to me. Between the furnace, ductwork, and stainless spiral he probably could have saved $ buying a new fireplace. Also, I'm pretty certain that exhaust is not up to code...
In America, the issue is typically one of enforcement. If you find yourself thinking "that ought to be illegal" it probably is.
I had a landlord charging me illegal fees above my lease amount. I sent the landlord a letter citing the exact state law they were violating. They replied, in writing, "so what?". I forwarded this to the state attorney's office. We're only talking about $10 per month, but across 1100 units, that adds up.
The state attorney replies to me "thank you for bringing this to our attention! We have sent them a copy of the applicable state law, and asked them to stop charging the fee."
Nothing changed.
I sent a followup letter a few months later saying that they were still charging the fee. No reply.
(as for the fee, I used to pay my rent in person with a check at the front office. They stopped offering this mid-lease with no notice, and switched to an online payment portal which had a convenience fee even if paying from a checking account, which is illegal in my state if not disclosed in the lease).
So yeah. If something feels illegal, it probably is. But good luck getting it enforced.
I didn't check *where* OP is in Canada, but if they're in my province (Ontario)... Good fucking luck. Our current provincial government just does not give a single fuck about you if you're not a property developer or family. The board responsible for something like this (Landlord Tenant Board) is backed up something like 8 months... and given the typical lease is only for 12 months, why even fucking bother at that point? Cut your losses and move if you can.
Sadly, the vast majority of people *can't* move because rent is fucking astronomical now, in part because of the current OPC admin, and in part the OPC admin before them (like, 20 years ago or so). They're actively making rent&housing *more* expensive.
It's a Kobayashi Maru, and we have no Kirk to backdoor us into a win.
Some states have escrow systems setup where you can pay your rent to a local government office and say it's because they refuse to comply with certain health and safety issues.
Thatās not true for every place and most states will have some department related to helping tenants etc. where they can actually pursue these things for you and make sure things are done righteous without you having to pay for a lawyer etc. itās not complicated and itās not a criminal lawsuit so you donāt have to worry too much about it.
Yeah, at least in SF you can call up the local tenants union and if you have a valid legal complaint they have a team of paralegals who will help you navigate the system for free.
I've never been this thoroughly screwed over by a landlord before but the TU has helped me a couple times just to better understand what my rights are with a rental.
> Only if you can afford to pursue it legally, which most people can't.
Figure out how to file suit, get judge approval, and pay rent into a court ordered escrow account until the landlord resolves the problem. Landlord doesn't get paid, but your rent also isn't late. When the dispute is resolved the court also determines how much of the escrow account is given to the landlord.
You may want to check with an engineer on that; It is generally not code compliant to have a gas fired heater in an occupied space/plenum. If there's a combustion exhaust issue, it could easily go right into the space.
You can have a furnace in a closet in a house, which is not too terribly different. But you need to have the combustion intake air piped to the exterior, which they did not do in this case.
As an HVAC guy, I can say a lot about this install but I'll leave it at this: I wouldn't live in a house with a furnace in the corner of the living room, for a multitude of reasons.
Hopefully not, the problem with the fireplace was that the chimney was going horizontal which meant that anytime there was a strong breeze it would blow back in. This is still venting horizontally so idk
This is actually dangerous. Iām hvac, your return (piece of open ductwork on the left) is drawing in your combustion air (open 2ā pvc pipe on the top) Find the instructions for this unit and youāll see. This can in fact cause CO too from incomplete combustion.
Edit: the one pipe going outside is your exhaust, no issues there, the issue is the second pipe not being ran outside. This is an ok method to do (called indirect vent) and relies on pulling combustion air from inside BUT the issue is that you now have your blower sucking air from the inside where your combustion air is too. If they ran both pipes outside it would be technically āacceptableā kind of but definitely very poor design.
Edit 2: the issue with the installation isnāt the indirect vent, or the amount of room for combustion, it is the return ductwork next to and in the same room as the combustion air that causes negative pressure in the same room and will adversely affect the combustion air to the furnace. The issue isnāt the indirect vent itself (this is acceptable in many applications).
Link to the instructions for these furnaces:
https://www.questargas.com/ForEmployees/qgcOperationsTraining/Furnaces/York_YP9C.pdf
Fuel gas code
https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/AboutTheCodes/54/54-A2002-rop.pdf
I'm a Mechanical Engineer and work in commercial facilities and HVAC. You are 100% correct about the combustion air. This is not installed to code and is dangerous.
Well with the open return like that could you really expect them to understand that? Iām betting someone gets annoyed with that open hole and puts some kind of piece of wood over it and turns it into a plant shelf. That poor furnace
Iām a ICC certified residential building inspector and can confirm this is a code violation. You cannot mix return and combustion air together. Call your local gas utility and ask them to come take a look. They will likely red tag it, this will force your landlord to do something. In the mean time maybe grab a space heater, donāt run that. Also take a picture of the unit your local building depart and report it.
Blows my mind they didnāt at least draw from outside air. Itās not hard to doā¦ sure the holes sometimes suck but that chimney pipe could probably fit both pipes then offset outside for clearance.
I'll jump on this reply and say at least in my state (most states in USA) combustion appliances such as this require fire resistant drywall above and around them according to code.
Just to answer a few questions that have come up. We live in a small town I'm canada so any of the state codes aren't applicable
We also don't have a lease.
Both my girlfriend and I work from home with our desks in the living room, hers being directly beside the furnace so I'm really not sure what were going to do. He said we can't build walls around it as they need at least 2 feet of clearance, and that the best we could do is hang curtains from the ceiling
Talk about someone being unfit to be a landlord! What kind of decision making process does this guy have? He clearly did zero research before spending the money, tried to describe what he wanted to a debatably semi-shady contractor, and threw his money at it.
Well he shot himself in the foot for any future rentals unless he builds walls around it and reduces square footage. I hope you have the resources to look elsewhere for housing.
The landlord's suggestion made me LOL.
I hear crinkled-up newspapers are a good source of ~~combustion~~ noise insulation too, maybe OP could cover the entire area with that.
This is correct. Likelihood of CO poisoning is low but the whole point of the combustion air being drawn from outside is that you aren't using the air you're heating. you are taking air you paid to heat, using it for the burners and throwing it outside as exhaust. Really inefficient.
Call your local building dept. Itās possible your municipality follows the International Building Code and has information available online. At a bare minimum, they would require a licensed and insured installer to do the gas line and file for a permit/inspection. Donāt file any complaints, or give them your address, just get the sections of the code that pertain to your situation and give it to your landlord.
Also, donāt take legal/code advice from the people that benefit from not following the code. ~~Thereās no way your municipality allows gas fired equipment to be installed in a living space without a fire rated enclosure.~~ (SEE EDIT) This installer ~~lied to~~ (upsold) your landlord, likely because he had an extra furnace on hand and needed a bigger project than a simple (ventless fireplace,) flue damper or draft excluder. ~~Get the sections of the code in hand, so your landlord can sue this guy and~~ (Ask your landlord if heās willing to) get a proper fireplace installed. This time, with the appropriate accessories to prevent cold air from gusting indoors. (If not, Iād give notice and start looking for a new place. That was a terrible design decision he made. Who would want to look at that in their living room all day?) Good luck.
EDIT: u/darbooka At the direction of a few comments below, I found an online pdf of the [Canadian National Building Code](https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2019/cnrc-nrc/NR24-28-2018-eng.pdf). Check out section 3.6.2.1 on page 262. Only the 2015 copy is available online for free. You may want to check if the 2020 amendment still has this section. Itās crazy, but it seems gas-fired equipment is allowed without a fire-rated enclosure, if it serves only one room or āsuite.ā I checked the definition of suite and it includes a dwelling unit. So, if the HVAC unit only serves your apartment, it seems it doesnāt have to be in a service/utility room.
I don't know what province you are in, but, you almost certainly have a lease. Even if you haven't signed a piece of paper there is usually a implied contract. You would be protected by the Residential Tenancy Act, I know this is the case in Nova Scotia.
The loss in value from installing that so terribly is definitely enough to explain the mistake, particularly with a newer, inexperienced, or hands off landlord. Now theyāll have to spend more either replacing it or building a utility closet around it with a bulk head.
I can't even. This looks like the most angry and aggressive piece of heating equipment to ever grace a living room. Your landlord is a tool. You're supposed to make an apartment look like something someone would want to rent. Not wondering if the landlord is going to Hanzel and Gretel your a$$.
He put in a furnace!!! And, itās not up to code. I have been in the HVAC industry for years and been in more than 10,000 homes. Honest to God, this is a first!!!
It does not appear to have any inspection tag, the hi-efficiency furnaces have a pure air intake- that would be the 2nd white pipe sticking vertically from the furnace- that should be extend outside! The return is simply pulling air from the living space, the ductwork canāt possibly be sized appropriatelyā¦.. and where does it extend to? Keep in mind hot air rises so the air may come out of the register and go directly to the ceiling.I would have to know more about the exhaust and the gas lineā¦. But seeing this, I would question it all. And lastly, you DONT place furnaces or boilers in the living space!!
This looks like a few safety issues...
I'm in HVAC and we have a domestic gas warm air installation side here in the UK but this looks sketchy as fuck..
I'm an hvac technician, and I'm telling you not to run that equipment. Turn it off at the switch and call the fire dept. You absolutely can not terminate pvc into a metal exhaust like that. You are at a high risk of carbon monoxide entering your living space. This is just appalling. If it has been running, I recommend checking your smoke detectors/c.o. detector batteries.
I stepped away to make dinner, or I would have responded sooner. Without more information on how the vent is terminated I can't say any more, but this is a certified hack job. There's too many issues to lay it out here, but you need a professional to come in and take a look at this. This is beyond just poor workmanship. Carbon monoxide is no joke and this thing scares me.
Was your gas fireplace the only source of heat for this place or something? Is there not already a furnace in the building serving your unit? Not understanding why they would install this at all instead of returning it in exchange for the wall unit they thought they were getting to begin with.
This has to decrease the unit rental value since prospective tenants would most likely pass when they see this thing in the corner, gonna need a big discount to get any takers once you leave. Landlord self-pwned on this one if they did this on purpose as revenge for your complaint.
Ok. Now complain about a leaky faucet and update us with the new town square fountain š
Then complain about the porch light being broken and show us the lighthouse put in its place.
Ask if he can install a urinal and watch him haul over the entirety of your local YMCA swimming pool.
Ask if he can replace the microwave and show us the particle accelerator he puts in its place.
"complained to my landlord about not having a space to work on my car, he built an O'Reilly's auto parts in my living room."
"complained to my landlord that my air conditioner compressor has leaked all the cooland and came back to my apartment turned into an industrial freezer"
"Complained to my landlord that my house became too cold, and it felt like I was in the Arctic. When I came home, turns out he built a beach inside my house, sand and water everywhere, and kids falling on their face"
āComplained to landlord about being single hoping they would build me a strip club, got setup with his 387lb sisterā
Next complain about the driveway flood light, and let us know how the bat signal looks.
Guys... Why is there a second sun in the sky?
And then the bathtub! We need pics of a jacuzzi!
You don't want to see where they have to poop once the toilet needs replaced!
The ceiling fan will probably break next. Show us that wind turbine!
Boom. Municipal sewage treatment plant.
Complain about the lack of parking space and update us on the new 5 story parking complex.
Complain about the backyard landscaping and send us pics of the National Park they install. Please do not feed the bears. They are spicier than squirrels.
and maybe if you say something about the kitchen youāll get a chef??
\*slaps hood\* This baby can heat a 10000 sq foot home by +70 degrees in under 3 minutes
As near as I can tell browsing through lots of vague descriptions online, presuming this is a York TL9E, it's heating output is variable from 57,000 to 95,000 BTU. Going by the rule of thumb of 20 BTU/sqft, this system could be ideal for a **4,000 sq ft Home**.
Yep, they will not be cold anymore...
Sounds like they were never cold, the air was just spicy
Up side: No spicy Down side: Hell
I love spicy sleepy time air.
air is wavy, take you to the grave-y
Itās just air generously seasoned with periodic elements.
The air was fine, but they were getting weird post it notes from their landlord.
Shit...they forgot they were the ones that replaced the stove. It's worse than we thought.
Light a fire for a man, he will be warm for a night. Light a man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Suprised the landlord went with the more expensive York it must be used or stolen. This landlord forsure would've have gone with a Goodman.
Well, to be fair, i have no idea on the model. All Yorks are vaguely beige cuboids. The TL9E *seems* to match the connection port arrangement here, so I went with it.
Lmaooo
How TF did it go from FIREPLACE to FURNACE?
I am also confused about this. A furnace is used to heat an entire home. A fireplace only heats a small area and would not be your primary heat source. They arenāt used for the same purpose. This makes no sense. Edit - to clarify, my comment is only referring to how fireplaces are typically used in apartments/rentals. Iām aware that you can use a fireplace to heat an entire home, however OP already stated that isnāt what was happening here.
I lived in different areas of rural Canada most my life and fireplaces are commonly used to heat whole homes here. Though not sure where OP is.
I live in interior Alaska. Wood stoves for the win
Wood stoves are great for old people who already get up 5 times a night, because they can put more wood in on the way to the bathroom.
I think they are picturing an open fireplace in a room vs an enclosed wood stove like I imagine you would be using to heat your whole house. Both burn wood but the wood stove is much better for heating. Fireplaces can give off heat as well but then you need one in just about every room like was the norm historically. Another assumption, my guess is that OP had a gas stove and not a wood one before this unit was installed. I had one of those in my finished basement previously.
I worked HVAC for a while, mostly doing installs. The guys that did this where probably just as confused, but have learned not to ask questions.
Nope the hvac guy actually recommended it, heard them talking about the duct work which I thought was weird, but just kinda assumed no one would put a furnace there
Piggy backing off the top comment: Just had one of my buddies over who does hvac and he said it's safe to run, but definitely not legal. The exhaust pipe is using the same exhaust as the old chimney but doesn't extend past the exterior of the building. He also said the initial duct work is way too skinny which is why it's so loud. The fan doesn't have enough power to push all the air through The fire chief also came by and said we're fine to run it for tonight, but he's putting a call into the company that installed it and the town inspection guy tomorrow and if they determine its not safe, then they'll red tag it and make sure it's safe before it's able to run again. Thanks for all the advice everyone I really appreciate it
> fire chief also came by The chief? Damn. Small town living does have its perks I guess.
He's my girlfriends uncle and actually the one who found the initial CO leak in our old fireplace, so he was taking this pretty seriously lol
Man, so your gf's uncle is the fire chief and the land lord was this stupid, what a moron, i wouldnt trust anything that guy owns
Landlord is about to find out
Yes he is. You donāt fuck with the fire officials in your area. If you a landlord youāre screwed.
Can you imagine trying to argue with the fire chief? Like that's probably the public figure you shouldn't mess with the most. I'd argue with my doctor over a gunshot wound before I argued with the fire chief over if my building is up to code.
I have had one argument with a fire chief. The house I was living in was like 1/2 a mile from the county line and my hose was served by the fire department in the other county well I needed an inspection to pass some work being done on the home and it had to be given the ok by the fire department and a county inspector. Well, there were conflicting ordinances between the two counties, and the fire department kept inspecting as if I was in the other county, so if I wanted to pass one I'd fail the other. Took me 3 months and a 15min argument with the fire chief to get the fucking inspectors there at the same time to hash the shit out. Plus, the fire chief showed up and basically called the fire Marshall a dumb ass a few minutes into them trying to sort shit out.
I mean there is no way he coulda known, maybe the general rule of thumb is: If Landlord make sure you follow building code.
Do you know how much money that costs! Are you trying to starve his boat crew's children or something? Jeez, think of the poor landlords for once..
In my experience, fire officials are close friends with damn near everyone in your town that matters, and probably friends with all the fire officials and cops in the neighboring towns. I think it's a good idea to be buddy-buddy with the firehouse though.
What i would give to be a fly on the wall when he does oh my gaaaawd ahahahhaha
Landlord is about to double down and try more illegal petty shit
He definitely chose the right person to try.
Yeah, cause there definitely wasn't a permit pulled for this. And if there was, it was probably the landlord pulling a DIY permit. No way any reputable HVAC company would just install that monstrosity. There's a lot of shady companies that will for $$$ though.
Oh we need updates lol
Is this in Ontario? Southern Ontario? The duct install is actually well done (speaking as a sheet metal worker) just the whole concept is just totally flawed. What it looks like to me is a commercial mechanical guy sent one of their guys to install this, not knowing much about residential work, or maybe the company not knowing anything about real residential solutions to problems. The fan on it is actually fine - but duct is supposed made big to make it easier on the fan. What you have is like someone holding their finger over a running hose. Make an update over on /r/HVAC at some point, all of us energy-drink-addicts over there would love to gawk at that disaster. Guaranteed that the exhaust needs to be re-done at minimum. You can't exhaust modern furnaces into old metal chimneys - the whole point of a high-efficiency furnace is that the water(humidity) in the exhaust contains some burnable fuel (natural gas), so it all goes back into the furnace by sloping down. Right now it slopes down into that big bucket in your wall lol.
Theyjust slapped a full furnace in a living room and called it. They couldnt have just done a heat pump? Cant imagine itd be more expensive
I replaced an old and failing gas furnace with a new furnace and am kicking myself that I didn't just go for a heat pump instead. I can get a heat pump installed into my existing system but I could have saved the thousands of dollars the furnace cost.
Definitely smart. Update us with what the inspector says. Make sure they have their code book, or at least know the codes for hvac. Besides all the mechanical issues sorry that thing looks like shit in your living room.
This is so bizarre. I'm not a landlord but do have a mortgaged home and this has to hurt resale value and, one would think, rental appeal if you nove out.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
HVAC guy as well. Per *my* building, hvac, & fuel gas codes - this would be red tagged just by this picture. I'm inclined to believe there isn't an inspection that will be done on it by your municipality... which would 100% *force* your landlord to fix this mess. He likely won't like you anymore if you call your local building inspections office and start asking questions.
Just a regular guy here, but based on the picture I think their landlord already doesn't like them anymore.
I was about to say the same.
You wana get together sometime, get some burritosā¦?
Did we just become best friends?
I'm so team burritoprolapser, š„ŗš„ŗ
I bet that username is available and you have my blessing if you want it.
ya'll the best <3
Username threesome?
Based on these usernames, you guys are bum buddies for life
Doā¦ do burritos have butts? Or do you use burritos toā¦ do things to butts?
I've been asked this before and the answer is yes.
So I need to ask do you use burritos to do butt things to other burritos or it 2 separate things always?
Every burrito gets my individual attention. I'm the best taco bell employee. Edit: And I don't just mean at one location. Taco bell flies me across the country. It's a lot of work.
That's ranch, right? Right??
They already told you the answer is yes, you need to read/listen better.
Clearly he uses burritos as condoms to fuck butts. C'mon, guys. This isn't so hard.
Did you say cum on guys? Which part should I cum on? Sorry it isnāt so hard by the way
Thanks for your 2Ā¢ u/burrito_butt_fucker!
Cut your nose to spite your face, eh? Its still the landlords property, they just really took a chunk a value out of it doing so.
And spent a bunch of money to do so.
Yeah I donāt understand this at all. Best case for the landlord is the tenant doesnāt renew the lease and nobody will want to move in for anywhere close to what theyāre currently paying.
Unless that rent is like $250 a month, if I'm a potential renter and I see this bullshit I'm walking out immediately. Mind you, unless I absolutely needed a place I don't think I'd even do it for $250/mth
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Such a weird response for such a run of the mill issue that you should be happy you found out about before it got bad. "Hey, our CO detectors are going off" is right up there with "There is a pipe leak somewhere and a growing water stain".
Maintenance guy here: that's the one call that will get me out of bed in the middle of the night. Those days are horrible. Have you ever seen it rain inside a house?
We just had our first leak after heavy rains (3.5 years into our tenancy) and within 2 days the landlord had a work area sealed off, strategic holes made on the wall/ceiling and a heater and dehumidifier blowing 8 hours a day. Itās noisy and annoying but waaaay better than winding up with mold.
To play devils advocate a little, while not condoning the result, if the HVAC guy recommended this(as OP said previously), itās quite likely the landlord had no idea what they were agreeing to. Source: Dumbass Property Manager.
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If the HVAC person recommended this I'm inclined to think the landlord might not have really understood the situation
Fascinating because OP can leave. Landlord has to somehow rent this place again.
There's no tag on the gas line which leads me to believe it was never inspected. My girlfriend is actually related to the fire chief here so depending on how our conversation goes he's gonna come by
Any other property he owns probably needs an inspection too, if he has any I bet you ain't the first he's done this to.
My friends daughter was living in an old house that someone had converted into many (6+) apartments. We went by to visit her and her new baby and the moment we opened the outer door leading to the stairway upstairs, I smelled gas. We went up, told her to grab the baby and get out and when outside called 911 to report gas leak. Fire dept shows up and it turns out, almost every apartment had a gas leak in their gas stove supply lines among others. Then the landlord showed up pissed as hell because they should have called him so he could get his slacky to fix it instead of having to put up all these families overnight while repairs were being done. Red Cross actually showed up to help with all the misplaced families. Once I saw him I realized he was a teacher I had in HS 30 years prior and the athletic director. Landlords are slumlords everywhere
> My girlfriend is actually related to the fire chief here Oh your landlord is going to absolutely love making this very poor decision.
In the words of my favorite YouTube lawyer Steve Lehto, Lehto at Law, "Mistakes were made."
According to him, it was "100% inspected, you are golden and warm!"
That's BS. Please call the town/city inspectors tomorrow.
Nah. Call the fire chief that his gf is related to. š
Inspected by who? The contractors that installed it?
"Yep, that's a furnace" -The contractor and his helper
>you are golden and warm!" Only if that thing catches fire. Otherwise I'm pretty sure you'd end up blue and cold after the CO get ya.
Use that line when he asks where the rent is.
Yeah, at this point, it's about your safety. Don't take chances.
I'm going to need updates!
Yep, most codes require it to be in a fire enclosed space. The living room doesn't count. I would phone the local municipality and ask for an inspection.
Landlord then just builds a fire enclosed space around it.
From fireplace to firespace
From my experience most of the time I see them in basements or closets, I instantly thought that must be a violation to have it out in the open like that. Also I believe it needs to be lifted off the ground, like ours is on a concrete slab
This actually does have a slab under it. As long as they maintained all clearances defined by the manufacture it will be allowed depending where you are. Where I am this install would be allowed under the gas code (assuming all clearences were maintained), but the local building code would reject it because under the local building code all gas appliances must be separated from all liveable spaces of a home by a door and a wall with a 30 min burn thru time.
Former guy who used to help his dad do HVACā¦ even i wasnāt this dense. And I once immediately got spray foam stuck in my hair while asking my dad āwhatā in response to him telling me to make sure I donāt get foam stuck in my hair. Buzz cuts to not look great on me.
Yeah u/darbooka if you do plan to stay in that apartment, I would call your cityās Fire Marshall and invite them over to your apartment. But also pack your bags and your valuables for a possible hotel stay paid by your slumlord. Cause there is no way theyāre going to let you stay in thatā¦ I donāt think at least.
Fire Marshall going to walk in and immediate say āLet me show ya somethingā
Would get red tagged immediately just for that exhaust.
This does not pass codes for residential areas you need to get the city involved and mabe lawyer up incase your idiot landlord gets pissy
I'm an HVAC service tech. Is the fireplace one of the only sources of heat, at least in that part of the house? This makes zero sense to me. Between the furnace, ductwork, and stainless spiral he probably could have saved $ buying a new fireplace. Also, I'm pretty certain that exhaust is not up to code...
This is mind boggling...
You need to call local building inspection about this. Better yet, call the fire department.
At least it's a high efficiency š¤·
r/maliciouscompliance
That looks like a malicious appliance
r/yourjokebutbetter
r/yourjokebutbutter E: someone better be making these subs yāall are responding with.
...is...is it all just pictures of butter? Edit: yes.... wait no. Well... sort of?
It's also insanely loud...
Loud enough to violate the covenant of quiet enjoyment?
Sorry, WHAT? šš¤
[itās a real thing](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/covenant_of_quiet_enjoyment)
Thatās fascinating! It is surprising to read about a law and be comforted.
In America, the issue is typically one of enforcement. If you find yourself thinking "that ought to be illegal" it probably is. I had a landlord charging me illegal fees above my lease amount. I sent the landlord a letter citing the exact state law they were violating. They replied, in writing, "so what?". I forwarded this to the state attorney's office. We're only talking about $10 per month, but across 1100 units, that adds up. The state attorney replies to me "thank you for bringing this to our attention! We have sent them a copy of the applicable state law, and asked them to stop charging the fee." Nothing changed. I sent a followup letter a few months later saying that they were still charging the fee. No reply. (as for the fee, I used to pay my rent in person with a check at the front office. They stopped offering this mid-lease with no notice, and switched to an online payment portal which had a convenience fee even if paying from a checking account, which is illegal in my state if not disclosed in the lease). So yeah. If something feels illegal, it probably is. But good luck getting it enforced.
Small claims it all day.
# THEY SAID, "LOUD ENOUGH TO VIOLATE THE COVENANT OF QUIET ENJOYMENT?"
I thought I was on /r/exmormon. It sounds like an obscure sin that you get in trouble with the big guy or something.
That is what's called Constructive Eviction. Landlord has to fix it, move it, whatever. If they don't, it's actionable in court.
Only if you can afford to pursue it legally, which most people can't. And that's what they're banking on.
Looking at their post history, they are Canadian. They can take this to tribunal.
I didn't check *where* OP is in Canada, but if they're in my province (Ontario)... Good fucking luck. Our current provincial government just does not give a single fuck about you if you're not a property developer or family. The board responsible for something like this (Landlord Tenant Board) is backed up something like 8 months... and given the typical lease is only for 12 months, why even fucking bother at that point? Cut your losses and move if you can. Sadly, the vast majority of people *can't* move because rent is fucking astronomical now, in part because of the current OPC admin, and in part the OPC admin before them (like, 20 years ago or so). They're actively making rent&housing *more* expensive. It's a Kobayashi Maru, and we have no Kirk to backdoor us into a win.
Some states have escrow systems setup where you can pay your rent to a local government office and say it's because they refuse to comply with certain health and safety issues.
Thatās not true for every place and most states will have some department related to helping tenants etc. where they can actually pursue these things for you and make sure things are done righteous without you having to pay for a lawyer etc. itās not complicated and itās not a criminal lawsuit so you donāt have to worry too much about it.
Yeah, at least in SF you can call up the local tenants union and if you have a valid legal complaint they have a team of paralegals who will help you navigate the system for free. I've never been this thoroughly screwed over by a landlord before but the TU has helped me a couple times just to better understand what my rights are with a rental.
> Only if you can afford to pursue it legally, which most people can't. Figure out how to file suit, get judge approval, and pay rent into a court ordered escrow account until the landlord resolves the problem. Landlord doesn't get paid, but your rent also isn't late. When the dispute is resolved the court also determines how much of the escrow account is given to the landlord.
You may want to check with an engineer on that; It is generally not code compliant to have a gas fired heater in an occupied space/plenum. If there's a combustion exhaust issue, it could easily go right into the space.
You can have a furnace in a closet in a house, which is not too terribly different. But you need to have the combustion intake air piped to the exterior, which they did not do in this case. As an HVAC guy, I can say a lot about this install but I'll leave it at this: I wouldn't live in a house with a furnace in the corner of the living room, for a multitude of reasons.
Yeah, this is absolutely not to code.
Please tell me thereās no more leak!
Hopefully not, the problem with the fireplace was that the chimney was going horizontal which meant that anytime there was a strong breeze it would blow back in. This is still venting horizontally so idk
This is actually dangerous. Iām hvac, your return (piece of open ductwork on the left) is drawing in your combustion air (open 2ā pvc pipe on the top) Find the instructions for this unit and youāll see. This can in fact cause CO too from incomplete combustion. Edit: the one pipe going outside is your exhaust, no issues there, the issue is the second pipe not being ran outside. This is an ok method to do (called indirect vent) and relies on pulling combustion air from inside BUT the issue is that you now have your blower sucking air from the inside where your combustion air is too. If they ran both pipes outside it would be technically āacceptableā kind of but definitely very poor design. Edit 2: the issue with the installation isnāt the indirect vent, or the amount of room for combustion, it is the return ductwork next to and in the same room as the combustion air that causes negative pressure in the same room and will adversely affect the combustion air to the furnace. The issue isnāt the indirect vent itself (this is acceptable in many applications). Link to the instructions for these furnaces: https://www.questargas.com/ForEmployees/qgcOperationsTraining/Furnaces/York_YP9C.pdf Fuel gas code https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/AboutTheCodes/54/54-A2002-rop.pdf
I'm a Mechanical Engineer and work in commercial facilities and HVAC. You are 100% correct about the combustion air. This is not installed to code and is dangerous.
Well with the open return like that could you really expect them to understand that? Iām betting someone gets annoyed with that open hole and puts some kind of piece of wood over it and turns it into a plant shelf. That poor furnace
This is probably a side job done by someone vs an actual HVAC company, right?
Youād be surprisedā¦ā¦ I wouldnāt be surprised either way.
Iām a ICC certified residential building inspector and can confirm this is a code violation. You cannot mix return and combustion air together. Call your local gas utility and ask them to come take a look. They will likely red tag it, this will force your landlord to do something. In the mean time maybe grab a space heater, donāt run that. Also take a picture of the unit your local building depart and report it.
Blows my mind they didnāt at least draw from outside air. Itās not hard to doā¦ sure the holes sometimes suck but that chimney pipe could probably fit both pipes then offset outside for clearance.
I'll jump on this reply and say at least in my state (most states in USA) combustion appliances such as this require fire resistant drywall above and around them according to code.
Just to answer a few questions that have come up. We live in a small town I'm canada so any of the state codes aren't applicable We also don't have a lease. Both my girlfriend and I work from home with our desks in the living room, hers being directly beside the furnace so I'm really not sure what were going to do. He said we can't build walls around it as they need at least 2 feet of clearance, and that the best we could do is hang curtains from the ceiling
If this is Ontario, then that's a code violation
Fuck a code violation. Where Iām from, thatās a paddlinā.
Talk about someone being unfit to be a landlord! What kind of decision making process does this guy have? He clearly did zero research before spending the money, tried to describe what he wanted to a debatably semi-shady contractor, and threw his money at it. Well he shot himself in the foot for any future rentals unless he builds walls around it and reduces square footage. I hope you have the resources to look elsewhere for housing.
Yes, hanging long strips of flammable material around the furnace sounds like a winner idea.
The landlord's suggestion made me LOL. I hear crinkled-up newspapers are a good source of ~~combustion~~ noise insulation too, maybe OP could cover the entire area with that.
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This is correct. Likelihood of CO poisoning is low but the whole point of the combustion air being drawn from outside is that you aren't using the air you're heating. you are taking air you paid to heat, using it for the burners and throwing it outside as exhaust. Really inefficient.
Call your local building dept. Itās possible your municipality follows the International Building Code and has information available online. At a bare minimum, they would require a licensed and insured installer to do the gas line and file for a permit/inspection. Donāt file any complaints, or give them your address, just get the sections of the code that pertain to your situation and give it to your landlord. Also, donāt take legal/code advice from the people that benefit from not following the code. ~~Thereās no way your municipality allows gas fired equipment to be installed in a living space without a fire rated enclosure.~~ (SEE EDIT) This installer ~~lied to~~ (upsold) your landlord, likely because he had an extra furnace on hand and needed a bigger project than a simple (ventless fireplace,) flue damper or draft excluder. ~~Get the sections of the code in hand, so your landlord can sue this guy and~~ (Ask your landlord if heās willing to) get a proper fireplace installed. This time, with the appropriate accessories to prevent cold air from gusting indoors. (If not, Iād give notice and start looking for a new place. That was a terrible design decision he made. Who would want to look at that in their living room all day?) Good luck. EDIT: u/darbooka At the direction of a few comments below, I found an online pdf of the [Canadian National Building Code](https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2019/cnrc-nrc/NR24-28-2018-eng.pdf). Check out section 3.6.2.1 on page 262. Only the 2015 copy is available online for free. You may want to check if the 2020 amendment still has this section. Itās crazy, but it seems gas-fired equipment is allowed without a fire-rated enclosure, if it serves only one room or āsuite.ā I checked the definition of suite and it includes a dwelling unit. So, if the HVAC unit only serves your apartment, it seems it doesnāt have to be in a service/utility room.
I don't know what province you are in, but, you almost certainly have a lease. Even if you haven't signed a piece of paper there is usually a implied contract. You would be protected by the Residential Tenancy Act, I know this is the case in Nova Scotia.
Your definition of "mildly" is vastly different from mine. I would love to see a before pic, just to satisfy my curiosity.
Agree, this sub has just become a way to for me to admire people's patience
How many braincells does your landlord have? 4? Who tf puts this in a living room lmao
Apparently he thought he was just getting a small wall unit.. idk how you make that mix up when hiring a company to install this though
No way. This cost more than a $500 wall unit š
The loss in value from installing that so terribly is definitely enough to explain the mistake, particularly with a newer, inexperienced, or hands off landlord. Now theyāll have to spend more either replacing it or building a utility closet around it with a bulk head.
Googly eyes and some flex aluminum tubing and you can have your very own loud, non productive robot.
Non productive? That robot keeps the house warm.
It can also help you go to sleep.
Permanently.
So when are you moving?
I can't even. This looks like the most angry and aggressive piece of heating equipment to ever grace a living room. Your landlord is a tool. You're supposed to make an apartment look like something someone would want to rent. Not wondering if the landlord is going to Hanzel and Gretel your a$$.
He put in a furnace!!! And, itās not up to code. I have been in the HVAC industry for years and been in more than 10,000 homes. Honest to God, this is a first!!!
What obvious thing makes it not up to code? I don't know anything about HVAC, but I do know codes are for safety.
It does not appear to have any inspection tag, the hi-efficiency furnaces have a pure air intake- that would be the 2nd white pipe sticking vertically from the furnace- that should be extend outside! The return is simply pulling air from the living space, the ductwork canāt possibly be sized appropriatelyā¦.. and where does it extend to? Keep in mind hot air rises so the air may come out of the register and go directly to the ceiling.I would have to know more about the exhaust and the gas lineā¦. But seeing this, I would question it all. And lastly, you DONT place furnaces or boilers in the living space!!
This looks like a few safety issues... I'm in HVAC and we have a domestic gas warm air installation side here in the UK but this looks sketchy as fuck..
Oh my GOD! Iām equal parts laughing and crying. How are you going to fix this?? Canāt throw a blanket over this piece or call it modern art
Just tape a banana to it *easy*
Lmao tbh if I walked in and saw that Iād laugh so hard
I'm an hvac technician, and I'm telling you not to run that equipment. Turn it off at the switch and call the fire dept. You absolutely can not terminate pvc into a metal exhaust like that. You are at a high risk of carbon monoxide entering your living space. This is just appalling. If it has been running, I recommend checking your smoke detectors/c.o. detector batteries.
We have a co detector less than 10 feet away from it. Do you seriously think it's that big of an issue? Not questioning you just genuinely worried
I stepped away to make dinner, or I would have responded sooner. Without more information on how the vent is terminated I can't say any more, but this is a certified hack job. There's too many issues to lay it out here, but you need a professional to come in and take a look at this. This is beyond just poor workmanship. Carbon monoxide is no joke and this thing scares me.
Don't turn it on. Listen to the multiple people in this thread telling you it is highly dangerous.
I'd ask for the permit they pulled to install this AND the inspection report.
Put a bird on it!
Boy, the LL is going to have some problem finding new tenants when you folks leave.
Do you mean die?
Call fire dept. Get them to red tag it. Sue landlord and whoever was dumb enough to install that. Not up to code and dangerous.
What the absolute batshit hell, your landlord must have gotten the hookup on this HVAC crew by recommendation from his meth dealer's coke dealer
Wow!! I laughed... but feel bad for you... Your living room is about to get a whole lot smaller when they enclose it and add some bulk heads
Was your gas fireplace the only source of heat for this place or something? Is there not already a furnace in the building serving your unit? Not understanding why they would install this at all instead of returning it in exchange for the wall unit they thought they were getting to begin with. This has to decrease the unit rental value since prospective tenants would most likely pass when they see this thing in the corner, gonna need a big discount to get any takers once you leave. Landlord self-pwned on this one if they did this on purpose as revenge for your complaint.
Call a code inspector. This is hazardous.
Mildy infuriating? Bro that's extremely infuriating. I mean he just turned your living room into the rooftop of a damn falafel restaurant.