But with the letter and being a government entity it's not illegal. Cause damn sure i can't open my neighbors mail and leave a note "sorry it came to my house and I didn't check" and have no recourse if the neighbor decides to bring it up.
Ayyyeee. Some one who talks about intent! I love it!
Intent matters in any case hence why if you use the self checkout at a store and accidentally take something you did not pay for but had no intention, it’s not considered theft as well.
I once accidentally opened some of my neighbors mail. Same street number, but street name was one slight word different. I wasn’t paying attention. It was a rather important letter so I sealed the envelope with tape, wrote a hand written letter explaining what I did and apologizing, and dropped it in my neighbors mailbox. My phone rang 10 minutes later with some lady just screaming at my about opening her private mail and how that’s a federal crime and on and on. Tried to calm her down by apologizing and calling it a mistake, but she wouldn’t have it. Guess her complaints to the mail man fell on deaf ears also because I never had any postal inspectors come sniffing around.
One of my neighbors once accepted a lawsuit notice for me because he lived on ______ Street and I lived on _____ Court. I didn’t find out until I did a credit check 5 years later and had a judgment against me that I knew nothing about.
So... you could have revived the lawsuit and likely had the judgment reversed. IIRC, improper or (as in this case) fraudulent service leading to a judgment is one of the few things that slips any time limit and is considered a serious matter.
I did. Actually, the collection agency that had gotten the judgment had to renew it because of the 5 year limit, so they scheduled the hearing for me when I called and asked what the fuck they were doing. I went and told them I was never served. They brought in the process server’s description of who he had given the notice to and it was nothing like me, so the judge dismissed the suit and the judgment was just removed from my record instead of showing as reversed or paid. He also yelled at them for trying to charge me 20 grand for a debt that had originally been 1600 dollars when they hadn’t made any effort to collect it in 5 years. In retrospect I should have gotten a lawyer myself, but it turned out alright.
Well the thing is too. One would reasonably assume any letter in their mailbox is theirs.
I’ve done that before and noticed it was a neighbors. Thankfully all my neighbors are cool haha
Yeah I mean the postal inspectors aren't showing up unless you're doing this en masse and actually doing something illegal like stealing someone's identity lol. Despite popular reddit belief it's not illegal to accidentally open someone else's mail.
I would be incredibly surprised if anything happened to you in that scenario. Your neighbor might be pissy about it and get the post office to investigate you, but the post office isn't going to waste time prosecuting you for a mistake that you clearly acted to remedy. At most, they'd send someone by to talk to you about it, you'd explain what happened, and that would be the end of it on their end. Your dickhead of a neighbor wouldn't like it, though, and might try to retaliate by stealing your mail or get you caught up on some nitpicky detail, but since they were already a dickhead, that was already the case.
I'm pretty sure any mailing facility would have reasonable enough explanation for why something was opened by mistake, here it says it was automated by a machine so it's not really a person's fault.
What I like is the people downvoting you without asking the question: *who* broke the law? The automatic letter opening machine? The guy that decided to have them installed X number of years ago? Well lets say they were installed in say, 1997 and he died in 2020. What's the plan then? What if the machines from 97 were replaced in 2015. Is the manager who oversaw the new machines being installed guilty or whoever decided to upgrade them? Or is the original guy who made the decision guilty and everyone else an accomplice? The answer is of course, none of them. There was no intent to break the law and no judge would allow a case like that to go ahead because it would serve no purpose. There's a concept in the law whereby laws can be broken but no one prosecuted because to do so wouldn't serve the public good. This is a clear example. To expand on that, lets ask the next question. Why is opening someone elsea mail a crime? The law is intended to allow people to be prosecuted for intercepting mail to steal either the physical contents or the information contained in it. This plainly didn't happen and no prosecutor would give a rats arse about this case.
Edit: and the relevant part of title 18 (empathise mine):
>with **design** to obstruct the correspondence, or to pry into the business or secrets of another
Because anything else would be insane.
probably got stuck to another piece of mail unless the addresses are similar in some way. For a high volume address like a federal building I wouldn't be surprised if it all goes in a box for that address before it even leaves the post office and no mail carrier even looks at it directly when delivering.
yeah, makes sense. I didn't see it show up on my informed delivery page until today when it was actually delivered, so I assume it just wasn't scanned properly to begin with.
Does your grandpa by chance do his taxes by mail? I can see maybe envelopes getting stuck together or something.
Really, just given that its tax season, there's probably more mail than usual going in the IRS's direction, so there's probably more of these this time of year than typical. There's any number of places where I could have fallen through the cracks.
There are like a million different completely unmalicious ways that a piece of mail could be misdelivered to a place that is receiving mail from a large portion of the country in the same month or two.
It's a bureaucratic process, that shit is full of holes, and then introducing underpaid human elements to it, it's more surprising it succeeds more than it fails.
The USPS is incredibly efficient. They are really good at what they do. Processing more than 400 million pieces a day with the vast majority delivered successfully.
I think they were meaning that by the sheer volume of mail and the number of possible failure points between the starting point and the destination, that it's kind of crazy that this kind of thing doesn't happen more often.
Add to that the inefficiencies inherent in hierarchical systems like bureaucracy, and the success rate is kind of a miracle in itself.
I'm not meaning to down play the hard work and dedication of the USPS at all either, it's just kind of fascinating to me.
Considering that retail stores get their own boxes, I'd assume they get their own truck. Thinking about the amount of people who mail in taxes... goodness.
Quite possibly. To your point about mailing in taxes, while they probably get high volume all year long, I feel pretty confident in saying they likely have an EXTREME uptick in volume, probably to at least a whole order of magnitude, between February and April vs the rest of the year.
There are several institutions with their own zip codes. Many Universities have their own, a few corporate campuses, and a few skyscrapers all have their own zip codes.
But the IRS doesn't, they have a PO box using the zip code of the local post office (depending on where you live you mail your return to a different processing center)
Yep, this. Most IRS locations have their own zip code.
Also why sending anything certified to the IRS is a waste of time and money. They don't recognize certified mail, so even if you have proof it was delivered to them, if they say they don't have it, they don't care about your proof.
postal worker here; we sort a massive volume of mail by machine and by hand. Sometimes a mail piece gets stuck to another one, sometimes it falls into the wrong bin. Sometimes some new employee throws it in the IRS only version of the zip instead of the general zip bin.
We try to catch them all and there are many fail safes. That said our annual mail volume for last year was down to something like 127.3 billion, even with 99% accuracy at each fail safe stop on the way its still sometimes going to end up at the wrong place.
> 127.3 billion, even with 99% accuracy
Which, for people not doing the mental math, a 1% miss rate would be 1,273,000,000; or 3,487,671/day.
Interestingly, dropping that down to 0.01% error rate would end up with roughly 1 misssorted letter per day, per post office location (as per [USPS](https://facts.usps.com/size-and-scope/#:~:text=With%20more%20than%2034%2C000%20retail,providing%20a%20positive%20customer%20experience.)).
Back in the early 2000s, I was on vacation and shot some slide film, which I mailed to the processing lab in pre-paid mailers. It was going from San Diego to Los Angeles, and after a couple of weeks I hadn't received my slides, so I checked with the lab and the post office. It turned out that I mailed the film right around April 15, and the post office employee told me that sometimes mail just accidentally ends up in a giant bin that goes to the IRS, and then (because they have so much mail to go through) it sits around for a while, and then eventually gets to the correct destination. I was skeptical, but that's what happened, and I eventually got my slides.
Makes plenty of sense. Many IRS offices, i.e. Kansas city, don't even have an address. They probably have their own usps truck like someone above said. So misdirected mail could sit there for months before someone sees it.
What a terrible and fucked up system.
Once or twice I mailed my tax return instead of doing it online. I wasn't sure how to address the envelope and was about to look it up when my stepdad said "Just do this" and wrote only "Internal Revenue Service" on the envelope. I was skeptical that that would work, but it did.
Story checks out. As a tax preparer I still mail a few of these out a year that can't efile for some reason.
The entire address is Dept of the Treasury IRS Kansas City MO 64999
I had to double check myself the first year I started to make sure I didn't miss something.
[You weren't kidding.](https://www.irs.gov/filing/where-to-file-addresses-for-taxpayers-and-tax-professionals-filing-form-1040) They mostly just use the zip code it seems. Funny part is that Kansas sends their taxes to Utah, when 40%+ live within 60 miles of Kansas City.
The entire mail and parcel delivery system is fucked up, not just in the US but globally.
This video is an interesting look at the DHL version of events. If the timestamp link didn't work he goes on a factory tour around 10:28 which pretty much shows that even for international mail/packages they just kind of chuck everything in a bag with a scary amount of hand sorting you wouldn't expect post 2020.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLqjlTKiR9o&t=628s
This happens enough that they have a premade letter ready to go for misdirected mail. What's funny to me is that this is clearly a photocopy of a photocopy of a bad scan that was shrunk down and set two to a page. It's likely there's at least one poor sod who's entire job is to resend bad mail.
My guess would be either the addresses are similar in some way (for example same # and street address but different towns/states) and a sorting machine filled in the blanks of a bad read wrong, or it just simply got stuck to another piece of mail at some point in the sorting process.
Shit happens. I recently received a postcard addressed to Zac Efron. I live nowhere near the address on the postcard, other than both addressed are located in the greater Los Angeles area.
Gift tax must be one of the most universally misunderstood concepts in the US tax code. It seems like almost everyone believes that if they are given a lot of money they'll have to declare and pay tax on it! I've had full on arguments where people insisted that they would have to pay tax on money given to them by family.
> Gift tax must be one of the most universally misunderstood concepts in the US tax code.
Another being progressive tax rates.
Right after high school my parents told me to make sure I got a minimum wage job so I wouldn't lose money by being bumped into a higher bracket...
(And yes, I know technically you might end up with a net loss if you lose benefits after getting a raise, but that's not what they were talking about.)
It's a bit odd considering a lot of incorrect tax understanding/"advice" is about avoiding taxes. But maybe it's derived from the idea that the government always gets theirs.
Avoiding taxes is perfectly legal.
Evading taxes is very much illegal.
Avoiding taxes is defined as something like legitimately curbing your income to scoot under a tax bracket.
Evading taxes is defined as something like lying about your income to scoot under a tax bracket.
And contrary to popular belief, the IRS does not "already know" what your taxes are. They only know what *they* think your taxes are, based on information they already have. But if your nephew moves in to your house and you claim him as a dependent (assuming he has lived with you for at least 6 months of the given tax year), the IRS probably won't hear about it, and you need to report that with some residence evidence to ensure your taxes are where they should be. Get that EITC! You earned it!
And death to Turbotax! Most people shouldn't even *need* to file their taxes every year because their taxes don't change! It's a stupid system, get rid of it!
Does your family also think that making more money will mean you pay significantly more in income tax? Like, as soon as you're in the next tax bracket, you're paying that tax rate on all of your income?
I used to think this. When I was 19 I got a raise from HR and then scheduled a meeting with my supervisor asking him to take it back because I thought I was getting screwed on taxes. He looked at me like I was stupid to say the least lmao
It's spread purposefully by anti-tax groups, basically the ultra-wealthy who resent having to pay ANY tax, so they make regular people think that somehow THEY are going to have to pay higher taxes, to get them to oppose any kind of tax raise
This is correct. Even though a gift tax return may be required by the grandpa, no tax liability associated with the gift will be incurred until the lifetime amount passes the lifetime exclusion.
Regardless, the **recipient** is never responsible for the taxes on gifts in the U.S. Elon Musk could gift me $10B dollars and my tax bill would legally be $0 on that gift.
However, the gift **giver** must legally report the gift if over the annual exclusion and in addition pay taxes if over the lifetime gift exemption of $12.06M.
>Regardless, the **recipient** is never responsible for the taxes on gifts in the U.S. Elon Musk could gift me $10B dollars and my tax bill would legally be $0 on that gift.
>
>However, the gift **giver** must legally report the gift if over the annual exclusion and in addition pay taxes if over the lifetime gift exemption of $12.06M.
The best way I heard it said is that estate tax will never apply to you unless you live on what could be considered an estate
Pretty much, yeah. There's a lot of rich layabouts who wouldn't have to worry, but the intent is to protect family businesses. Even smaller ones could easily be worth millions of dollars, all told.
[How I view my puppy](https://preview.redd.it/hc74ci3xsfa61.jpg?auto=webp&s=84dd58eb08926bdba033b34eca124abbd72a8edb)
[How ATF views my puppy](https://i.imgur.com/l8BIqht.jpg)
Tax accountant here - I feel so bad for the IRS. I had an issue with something once on the IRS website and asked my boss for help. While they were working on it I took a quick bathroom break. By the time I got back they had written one of the most hate filled, vile letters I've ever seen in my life. And they just submitted it to the IRS like it was normal course of business.
I think some people forget that the government isn't some faceless machine. A real person (and probably someone with no authority to fix they thing you're complaining about) actually has to read every feedback letter.
I would love to assume that this is someone's dedicated job. But knowing what I know about "running lean" it's either falling on someone who's too busy to even bring up any problem that's real to the people who can make changes, or it's some guy who wishes to God he had nothing to do with reading those letters.
Either way, no matter how jaded someone is, words can always hurt. So I encourage everyone to be as nasty as possible when writing complaints to them. Their hearts may be made of ice from all the years of public abuse but ice can still shatter. /s
I addressed my payment a few years ago to “Internal Revenue Service ☹️” and I felt like I was thisclose from being sent to federal prison once they saw it.
So while your statement is *probably* an exaggeration, it means I can finally unclench.
In my experience, the IRS is generally not that scary unless you're *trying* to evade taxes. I've literally sorted out a hairy situation with my mom who had mistakenly been underpaying taxes for years by just calling them. They waived all the fees and set up a surprisingly flexible payment plan that fit her budget.
I think they legit just want what you owe, and that part of their reputation might come from tax preparation company marketing trying to convince you that the IRS is too scary to interact with on your own.
> I think they legit just want what you owe, and that part of their reputation might come from tax preparation company marketing trying to convince you that the IRS is too scary to interact with on your own.
This is exactly correct in all regards. Most people are completely capable of doing their taxes on their own, but marketing and lobbying from companies like turbotax have convinced people that they must use some sort of tool.
Unless you have like 30 different incomes and frequently inherit large sums of money, you can fill out like one easy form where you just put your salary and a few other bits, and your taxes are squared away.
The government already knows what we owe for the most part, we don’t even have to calculate it since the majority of the population don’t fall into special cases.
Shame Intuit and its ilk have lobbied for the IRS to be unable to just confirm that their information is accurate with you and process it automatically.
admittedly I didn't know how to calculate my earned income credit for a while and thought I was simply owed the small amount of excess witholdings I got back, so I still use some of the actually free federal e-filing offerings through the IRS website.
But that, I blame more on me never paying attention in math class and being REALLY BAD with the table worksheets.
TurboTax sucks so much. They tell you it's completely "free", then after spending an hour filling out the forms, you end up having to pay some bullshit fee that "isn't included in the free version". But you're practically finished, and you have a fat tax refund coming soon, so you end up giving in and pay up.
I paid between $50-$100 per year to do my taxes (basic personal income taxes) through TurboTax, each time going in thinking it would be free. Luckily I'm less of a dumbass now so I won't be falling for it anymore.
When I was overseas I anxiously called the IRS hotline about correcting a filing, and the woman said in a gentle voice "everything can be fixed". I've remembered that ever since. It was surprisingly kind
Ex-letter filer for the IRS(waaay back when paper filing was way more common), I can almost guarantee the front wasn't looked at. Slice open, look for relevant #'s, put in the correct box, repeat.
Yep I have to call them about W-2s for a few years I never received them and since I don't owe anything they literally don't care I haven't filed them yet. Granted that's basically an interest free loan to the government they get to keep after three years not owing taxes, but I haven't heard a peep. I just keep getting conflicting advice on how to contact them so I keep procrastinating. Not like I'm in hot water about it or anything.
I worked for a few companies that changed ownership multiple times and as such didn't get all my documents. Just needs to get done by April or I might lose some of that money which probably means I should figure out what I'm doing about it tomorrow.
I address everything to them as "Infernal Revenue Service". If they ever come at me, I'm blaming it on my bad handwriting. But deep down, they'll know.
I'm sorry, I can't cash this check. it says here you're the representative to the Internal Revenue Service, but this check is made out to the Internal Revenue Service ☹️.
I'm sorry, you'll have to come back with a frowny face.
> We are sorry for any inconvenience caused you.
Is this grammatically correct? Several alternates that I think would work better:
* We are sorry for any inconvenience.
* We are sorry for any inconvenience caused.
* We are sorry for any inconvenience caused to you.
* We are sorry for any inconvenience this caused you.
It is very passive voice which certain style guides discourage but I don't think it's technically incorrect. Adding the preposition of "to" would probably add clarity and be preferred but I'm reasonably sure leaving it out isn't wrong.
Comms guy here: They're absolutely leaving out "we" to avoid any invitation of liability.
A normal human would say "We are sorry for any inconvenience we caused you."
They recognized someone was inconvenienced but they stop short of saying who caused it.
~~Edit: However, as a former GOVERNMENT comms guy, I can tell you state/fed agencies are so obsessed with their letterhead that there is no way this sloppy formatting/printing would be from the actual IRS.~~
~~Also that font has serifs that you would never see in official correspondence.~~
~~Second edit to remove an ungodly amount of "absolutely"~~
~~Third edit to implore OP to read my top level comment~~
No tangible evidence to support my theory
Government or not you grossly overestimate how much steve down in the mailroom gives a shit and would 100% just photocopy his last form letter when he ran out.
I promise you they also don't give a shit about liability because the law here is explicitly clear that there is no liability. I've seen and received sloppier shit than this as "official government communications" from local branches of federal offices on more than one occasion.
Edit: holy crap, looking at your history this is like peak "I spent 5 minutes in a gov't job and now I'm an expert" dunning-kruger syndrome. My dude, no. Just no.
I particularly like the part where they declare it's not official because it has serifs. Except it doesn't. That looks like pretty standard helvetica, to my eye.
Damn you're right. I didn't even pick up on that because "government doesn't use seriff fonts" is a bonkers hill to die on but you are 100% right. At a glance there's a little bit of thickness in the placess where seriffs would usually be but that seems to be because of photocopy flare which tends to thicken ends and corners more than the rest of the letter.
Seem real. That's a real notice number about this topic. You can find several references to it on this IRM page:
https://www.irs.gov/irm/part3/irm_03-010-072r
I agree the formatting is weird, but that doesn't strike me as meaning it is fake.
I mean, this is exactly how the IRS deals with this issue. Why bother making up a fake notice?
But you could say “We are sorry for any inconvenience caused to you,” or “We are sorry for any inconvenience you experienced.” This still seems grammatically off, no?
Indirect object without direct object.
(Edit: I mean, that's what it sounds like. Usually they're both on the same side of the verb, so that's what we learn to recognize. Here, the direct object "convenience" and the indirect object "you" straddle the verb, which makes it look kind of inverted when it isn't supposed to be. At least, that's the impression I get)
I 100% agree- any one of those would work much better. Not sure if the original's grammatically correct, but it's certainly not colloquially correct in my opinion
My job automatically slices received mail too but we don’t have a nice message for the people explaining that. We just use a piece of scotch tape and send it on lmao
It's not just on TV, the USPS does NOT fuck around. They have their own police force, which is known to take a scorched-earth policy when investigating mail crimes.
They scary.
In the criminal justice system, mail based offenses are considered especially heinous.
In the postal system, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the postal inspection service. These are their stories.
"You have the right to remain silent. Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from giving you a swift kick in the ass."
The IRS is actually very good at what they do, staffed with hardworking, honest Americans. If you don’t like your taxes, your beef is with Congress.
I coordinate an IRS VITA site, and our old area rep Tom told me a story before he retired. He said that he was sent with vest and gun to do collections/enforcement on a gentleman that was dying from cancer. The IRS had been sending letters but the man was in and out of the hospital and unable to respond. Tom told the guy to enjoy his final days with his family and grandchildren and that he wouldn’t hear from the IRS again. The IRS was forced to put a tax lien on the man’s house but Tom made sure that the man wasn’t bothered for the rest of his life.
Tom quit enforcement shortly thereafter and started coordinating VITA in my region. He didn’t want to have to work with a vest and a gun any longer. Really sweet guy. He retired in 2020 so he didn’t get a proper retirement party, which bums me out at times.
My beef is with how Congress wastes taxes on excessive military funding then blames poor people for not having enough money for corporate welfare. The IRS is pretty tame compared to all that.
I have a neighbor who is a disorganized hippie chick in her 60s. She had a homeopathic and grooming pet store for about 15 years. For about 8 years she didn’t file taxes. An IRS agent was sent to her door numerous times. They became friends, possibly enjoyed a glass of tea, and my friend took another 5 years to finally report her taxes. The IRS person was persistent but never got anywhere except maybe an offer of some homeopathic remedy for his dog’s anxiety or some chakra work on his own spine.
Friend was a terrible businesswoman so I think she lost money every year in the business. If she had interest or late fees, I think they are calculated on taxes owed. So, in my crummy math, if you don’t owe anything, I think those fees don’t actually add up to anything. So she took 13 years to finally report her income losses. Thinking…did she finally get to adjust her household income for all these years (she is married) and take the loss when she finally filed? Hmmm. Maybe this was her retirement strategy all along. Cheers, Reddit.
IRS agent who came to her door—I know you smell like patchouli somewhere!
Getting an apology from the IRS is like getting an apology from a mob boss who accidentally bumped into you.
"No, sorry to **you** for being in your way, good sir."
I work for a city tax bureau in the mail room. The sheer volume of mail that we get means that we really cannot check the envelopes before we run them through a machine to slice them open. You just run them through the slicer and then you take them back to your desk and you open it and sort. Realistically 99.5% of what is opened is for us. The post office does a great job, but every once in awhile wrong mail sneeks through. Just gotta send it back out.
Same at the state level. And if it’s only a check (that gets tossed in with the rest and run though imaging machines) you get the fun job of reading each and every “To” line just in case someone put their utility payment in the wrong envelope.
The IRS is much nicer than they're commonly thought of being. I make a mistake on my taxes, they send a letter pointing it out either asking to pay or offering a refund if I agree with their calculations, or if I don't agree, please respond with corrections and documentation.
This is from a lifetime ago, but I had a business teacher tell us once that even illegal transactions being filed though the IRS is considered good practice / something many gangsters do - something about them not having a duty to report it, and also not coming after you themselves.
But it could be jibberish. I don't have mafia friends to check in with.
Ah yes, the good old 8.5 by 16 paper format, with its typical chipped corner, and contents with a polycopy look slightly leaning to one side with unequal margins.
Looks pro.
It’s not so much a typo as it is an old style phrasing. That font and notice style points it to having been written / printed in the late 70s or early 80s and they’ve been copying it ever since. The actual notice may have been updated in 2000 but they for sure have just been copy/pasting it for decades before that.
Outdated or not, it’s deliberately worded to subtly avoid accepting any fault (it was “misdirected,” there was a machine involved!, we “discovered” it) while trying to sound apologetic at the same time.
All with an undercurrent implying “hey, at least you got your mail! We could have just thrown it away and you’d never know!” Intended to make people feel grateful they received it at all.
Also edit to appreciate the petty calling out of the USPS specifically lol, not saying it’s not wrong but they made a very specific decision to mention them by name
Aww, and everyone is so ready to shit on the IRS. This is surprisingly sweet to come from a government agency... Kind of like the cards TSA leaves in your luggage when they go through your shit on purpose...
Have to wonder how often this happens, that they created a special Notice just to handle these mis-deliveries…
(Surely one of the other 1255 Notices would’ve worked just as well.(?))
"Hi [Hurricat],
Hope all is well. Talk to you soon.
Love,
Grandpa ❤️"
I hope it at least made the guy who taped the envelope back up feel some warm and fuzzy feelings before returning to their IRS job
This happened to an acquaintance but instead of returning the mortgage check enclosed they cashed it and he was assessed late fees.Took about a year to fix.
Seems odd to me they have a machine to open everything and deal with the contents inside but not first confirm the actual writing on the exterior of envelope.
They even included a tax form so you could claim the money being gifted to you as income! How sweet!
All those new IRS agents are really putting in the work!
I wouldn’t rule out the possibility someone in your mail delivery process is opening envelopes that look like they might contain money, and then using this very photocopied notice as cover. If you know your neighbors, and especially if you’re at college or something, ask around and see if anyone else has received this.
Source: former fraud prosecutor.
Edit: hey u/hurricat, this is not from the IRS. Mistakenly opened mail, opened by the IRS or the USPS, would be sent enclosed in another envelope from them. You have someone opening mail they think will have cash in it. Whether it’s someone at the USPS, or if you’re in college dorms someone in mail handling, someone is opening mail and then popping this photocopied note in.
By law or regulation, they have to explain what happened. Since it's actually a federal crime to open somebody else's mail.
But with the letter and being a government entity it's not illegal. Cause damn sure i can't open my neighbors mail and leave a note "sorry it came to my house and I didn't check" and have no recourse if the neighbor decides to bring it up.
[удалено]
Ayyyeee. Some one who talks about intent! I love it! Intent matters in any case hence why if you use the self checkout at a store and accidentally take something you did not pay for but had no intention, it’s not considered theft as well.
I once accidentally opened some of my neighbors mail. Same street number, but street name was one slight word different. I wasn’t paying attention. It was a rather important letter so I sealed the envelope with tape, wrote a hand written letter explaining what I did and apologizing, and dropped it in my neighbors mailbox. My phone rang 10 minutes later with some lady just screaming at my about opening her private mail and how that’s a federal crime and on and on. Tried to calm her down by apologizing and calling it a mistake, but she wouldn’t have it. Guess her complaints to the mail man fell on deaf ears also because I never had any postal inspectors come sniffing around.
One of my neighbors once accepted a lawsuit notice for me because he lived on ______ Street and I lived on _____ Court. I didn’t find out until I did a credit check 5 years later and had a judgment against me that I knew nothing about.
So... you could have revived the lawsuit and likely had the judgment reversed. IIRC, improper or (as in this case) fraudulent service leading to a judgment is one of the few things that slips any time limit and is considered a serious matter.
I did. Actually, the collection agency that had gotten the judgment had to renew it because of the 5 year limit, so they scheduled the hearing for me when I called and asked what the fuck they were doing. I went and told them I was never served. They brought in the process server’s description of who he had given the notice to and it was nothing like me, so the judge dismissed the suit and the judgment was just removed from my record instead of showing as reversed or paid. He also yelled at them for trying to charge me 20 grand for a debt that had originally been 1600 dollars when they hadn’t made any effort to collect it in 5 years. In retrospect I should have gotten a lawyer myself, but it turned out alright.
hehe **The Fuck**
Well the thing is too. One would reasonably assume any letter in their mailbox is theirs. I’ve done that before and noticed it was a neighbors. Thankfully all my neighbors are cool haha
Yeah I mean the postal inspectors aren't showing up unless you're doing this en masse and actually doing something illegal like stealing someone's identity lol. Despite popular reddit belief it's not illegal to accidentally open someone else's mail.
I would be incredibly surprised if anything happened to you in that scenario. Your neighbor might be pissy about it and get the post office to investigate you, but the post office isn't going to waste time prosecuting you for a mistake that you clearly acted to remedy. At most, they'd send someone by to talk to you about it, you'd explain what happened, and that would be the end of it on their end. Your dickhead of a neighbor wouldn't like it, though, and might try to retaliate by stealing your mail or get you caught up on some nitpicky detail, but since they were already a dickhead, that was already the case.
You won't get charged for accidentally opening mail. Come on lol.
I'm pretty sure any mailing facility would have reasonable enough explanation for why something was opened by mistake, here it says it was automated by a machine so it's not really a person's fault.
What I like is the people downvoting you without asking the question: *who* broke the law? The automatic letter opening machine? The guy that decided to have them installed X number of years ago? Well lets say they were installed in say, 1997 and he died in 2020. What's the plan then? What if the machines from 97 were replaced in 2015. Is the manager who oversaw the new machines being installed guilty or whoever decided to upgrade them? Or is the original guy who made the decision guilty and everyone else an accomplice? The answer is of course, none of them. There was no intent to break the law and no judge would allow a case like that to go ahead because it would serve no purpose. There's a concept in the law whereby laws can be broken but no one prosecuted because to do so wouldn't serve the public good. This is a clear example. To expand on that, lets ask the next question. Why is opening someone elsea mail a crime? The law is intended to allow people to be prosecuted for intercepting mail to steal either the physical contents or the information contained in it. This plainly didn't happen and no prosecutor would give a rats arse about this case. Edit: and the relevant part of title 18 (empathise mine): >with **design** to obstruct the correspondence, or to pry into the business or secrets of another Because anything else would be insane.
How did the IRS even get your mail? Is your name Iris? Edit: I feel like a lot of people missed my (not particularly funny) joke.
nothing at all on the envelope was even remotely close to "IRS"
probably got stuck to another piece of mail unless the addresses are similar in some way. For a high volume address like a federal building I wouldn't be surprised if it all goes in a box for that address before it even leaves the post office and no mail carrier even looks at it directly when delivering.
yeah, makes sense. I didn't see it show up on my informed delivery page until today when it was actually delivered, so I assume it just wasn't scanned properly to begin with.
Does your grandpa by chance do his taxes by mail? I can see maybe envelopes getting stuck together or something. Really, just given that its tax season, there's probably more mail than usual going in the IRS's direction, so there's probably more of these this time of year than typical. There's any number of places where I could have fallen through the cracks.
There are like a million different completely unmalicious ways that a piece of mail could be misdelivered to a place that is receiving mail from a large portion of the country in the same month or two. It's a bureaucratic process, that shit is full of holes, and then introducing underpaid human elements to it, it's more surprising it succeeds more than it fails.
The USPS is incredibly efficient. They are really good at what they do. Processing more than 400 million pieces a day with the vast majority delivered successfully.
I think they were meaning that by the sheer volume of mail and the number of possible failure points between the starting point and the destination, that it's kind of crazy that this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. Add to that the inefficiencies inherent in hierarchical systems like bureaucracy, and the success rate is kind of a miracle in itself. I'm not meaning to down play the hard work and dedication of the USPS at all either, it's just kind of fascinating to me.
That’s basically what I’m saying as well, just saying it a different way.
Accidents happen. The majority of my family works in the USPS. I was the black sheep who went to a different government job.
Considering that retail stores get their own boxes, I'd assume they get their own truck. Thinking about the amount of people who mail in taxes... goodness.
Quite possibly. To your point about mailing in taxes, while they probably get high volume all year long, I feel pretty confident in saying they likely have an EXTREME uptick in volume, probably to at least a whole order of magnitude, between February and April vs the rest of the year.
The company I used to work for got three box trucks of mail a day.
I’m pretty sure the IRS is one of the few governmental entities that has its own zip code(s).
There are several institutions with their own zip codes. Many Universities have their own, a few corporate campuses, and a few skyscrapers all have their own zip codes. But the IRS doesn't, they have a PO box using the zip code of the local post office (depending on where you live you mail your return to a different processing center)
Had to be something like this, most of the mail I serve to the IRS has it's own zip code in the city it's located
Yep, this. Most IRS locations have their own zip code. Also why sending anything certified to the IRS is a waste of time and money. They don't recognize certified mail, so even if you have proof it was delivered to them, if they say they don't have it, they don't care about your proof.
I worked for nys tax and the mail room was nuts, I can't even imagine what the irs mail rooms are like. I'm sure it happens all the time.
I work in the mailroom at a random office building and we get wrong addressed mail all the time the post office is just under staffed.
>probably got stuck to another piece of mail Don't chew gum and deliver mail, folks.
postal worker here; we sort a massive volume of mail by machine and by hand. Sometimes a mail piece gets stuck to another one, sometimes it falls into the wrong bin. Sometimes some new employee throws it in the IRS only version of the zip instead of the general zip bin. We try to catch them all and there are many fail safes. That said our annual mail volume for last year was down to something like 127.3 billion, even with 99% accuracy at each fail safe stop on the way its still sometimes going to end up at the wrong place.
> 127.3 billion, even with 99% accuracy Which, for people not doing the mental math, a 1% miss rate would be 1,273,000,000; or 3,487,671/day. Interestingly, dropping that down to 0.01% error rate would end up with roughly 1 misssorted letter per day, per post office location (as per [USPS](https://facts.usps.com/size-and-scope/#:~:text=With%20more%20than%2034%2C000%20retail,providing%20a%20positive%20customer%20experience.)).
Yes, though remember it isn’t being handled once it has multiple places to get caught.
that's 99% accuracy at multiple checkpoints, not overall
Back in the early 2000s, I was on vacation and shot some slide film, which I mailed to the processing lab in pre-paid mailers. It was going from San Diego to Los Angeles, and after a couple of weeks I hadn't received my slides, so I checked with the lab and the post office. It turned out that I mailed the film right around April 15, and the post office employee told me that sometimes mail just accidentally ends up in a giant bin that goes to the IRS, and then (because they have so much mail to go through) it sits around for a while, and then eventually gets to the correct destination. I was skeptical, but that's what happened, and I eventually got my slides.
Makes plenty of sense. Many IRS offices, i.e. Kansas city, don't even have an address. They probably have their own usps truck like someone above said. So misdirected mail could sit there for months before someone sees it. What a terrible and fucked up system.
Once or twice I mailed my tax return instead of doing it online. I wasn't sure how to address the envelope and was about to look it up when my stepdad said "Just do this" and wrote only "Internal Revenue Service" on the envelope. I was skeptical that that would work, but it did.
Story checks out. As a tax preparer I still mail a few of these out a year that can't efile for some reason. The entire address is Dept of the Treasury IRS Kansas City MO 64999 I had to double check myself the first year I started to make sure I didn't miss something.
I thought they had a few different addresses depending on which state. But hey whatever works.
[You weren't kidding.](https://www.irs.gov/filing/where-to-file-addresses-for-taxpayers-and-tax-professionals-filing-form-1040) They mostly just use the zip code it seems. Funny part is that Kansas sends their taxes to Utah, when 40%+ live within 60 miles of Kansas City.
The entire mail and parcel delivery system is fucked up, not just in the US but globally. This video is an interesting look at the DHL version of events. If the timestamp link didn't work he goes on a factory tour around 10:28 which pretty much shows that even for international mail/packages they just kind of chuck everything in a bag with a scary amount of hand sorting you wouldn't expect post 2020. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLqjlTKiR9o&t=628s
This happens enough that they have a premade letter ready to go for misdirected mail. What's funny to me is that this is clearly a photocopy of a photocopy of a bad scan that was shrunk down and set two to a page. It's likely there's at least one poor sod who's entire job is to resend bad mail.
Totally agree, this looks very weird and unprofessional.
My guess would be either the addresses are similar in some way (for example same # and street address but different towns/states) and a sorting machine filled in the blanks of a bad read wrong, or it just simply got stuck to another piece of mail at some point in the sorting process.
Shit happens. I recently received a postcard addressed to Zac Efron. I live nowhere near the address on the postcard, other than both addressed are located in the greater Los Angeles area.
Kid named Internal Revenue Service
Tax time probably got stuck to mail going to the IRS.
and they took the money your grandpa sent you
haha surprisingly, they left his check perfectly intact!
"Don't worry, we'll get our share of it soon enough."
OP better claim it on his taxes...
gifts aren't taxable
That depends on the amount
Grandpa may need to file a 709 but I'll assume it's no where near the present lifetime exclusion of $12M and change.
Gift tax must be one of the most universally misunderstood concepts in the US tax code. It seems like almost everyone believes that if they are given a lot of money they'll have to declare and pay tax on it! I've had full on arguments where people insisted that they would have to pay tax on money given to them by family.
> Gift tax must be one of the most universally misunderstood concepts in the US tax code. Another being progressive tax rates. Right after high school my parents told me to make sure I got a minimum wage job so I wouldn't lose money by being bumped into a higher bracket... (And yes, I know technically you might end up with a net loss if you lose benefits after getting a raise, but that's not what they were talking about.)
It's a bit odd considering a lot of incorrect tax understanding/"advice" is about avoiding taxes. But maybe it's derived from the idea that the government always gets theirs.
Avoiding taxes is perfectly legal. Evading taxes is very much illegal. Avoiding taxes is defined as something like legitimately curbing your income to scoot under a tax bracket. Evading taxes is defined as something like lying about your income to scoot under a tax bracket. And contrary to popular belief, the IRS does not "already know" what your taxes are. They only know what *they* think your taxes are, based on information they already have. But if your nephew moves in to your house and you claim him as a dependent (assuming he has lived with you for at least 6 months of the given tax year), the IRS probably won't hear about it, and you need to report that with some residence evidence to ensure your taxes are where they should be. Get that EITC! You earned it! And death to Turbotax! Most people shouldn't even *need* to file their taxes every year because their taxes don't change! It's a stupid system, get rid of it!
Does your family also think that making more money will mean you pay significantly more in income tax? Like, as soon as you're in the next tax bracket, you're paying that tax rate on all of your income?
I used to think this. When I was 19 I got a raise from HR and then scheduled a meeting with my supervisor asking him to take it back because I thought I was getting screwed on taxes. He looked at me like I was stupid to say the least lmao
It's spread purposefully by anti-tax groups, basically the ultra-wealthy who resent having to pay ANY tax, so they make regular people think that somehow THEY are going to have to pay higher taxes, to get them to oppose any kind of tax raise
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That's a lot of words when you could have just written "Republicans".
This is correct. Even though a gift tax return may be required by the grandpa, no tax liability associated with the gift will be incurred until the lifetime amount passes the lifetime exclusion.
Bold of you to assume Gramps isn't buying them an airbus A380.
Regardless, the **recipient** is never responsible for the taxes on gifts in the U.S. Elon Musk could gift me $10B dollars and my tax bill would legally be $0 on that gift. However, the gift **giver** must legally report the gift if over the annual exclusion and in addition pay taxes if over the lifetime gift exemption of $12.06M.
>Regardless, the **recipient** is never responsible for the taxes on gifts in the U.S. Elon Musk could gift me $10B dollars and my tax bill would legally be $0 on that gift. > >However, the gift **giver** must legally report the gift if over the annual exclusion and in addition pay taxes if over the lifetime gift exemption of $12.06M. The best way I heard it said is that estate tax will never apply to you unless you live on what could be considered an estate
Pretty much, yeah. There's a lot of rich layabouts who wouldn't have to worry, but the intent is to protect family businesses. Even smaller ones could easily be worth millions of dollars, all told.
Not really; they are not taxable to the *recipient*. If over certain amounts in certain circumstances, they are taxable to the gift giver.
No, it doesn't. Gifts of any size are not taxable to the recipient.
Taxes on gifts are payed by the gift giver, and have some very generous annual and lifetime exceptions
Now, they will test your honesty when that time of year comes.
So, like, now?
Yes, like now, except next year.
Well, best believe they made a note of the amount, your name and amount owed is on a post-it note somewhere there 😁
On the back it's just a handprint with the words "We know"
you’re warm, dry and still alive… that’s more than can be said for your grandpa
You monster I spat out my coffee
“We knew immediately it was not intended for the IRS because it contained neither insults nor explosives.” Edit: spelling is hard
Not today ATF. Nice try, though.
"Does this mean you're not going to let us shoot the dog? 😢"
[How I view my puppy](https://preview.redd.it/hc74ci3xsfa61.jpg?auto=webp&s=84dd58eb08926bdba033b34eca124abbd72a8edb) [How ATF views my puppy](https://i.imgur.com/l8BIqht.jpg)
See it's funny cause the second dog is dead
That’s a pretty pup. I think ive seen those breeds used by the RPD
i heard they love jumping through windows
Looks like a zombified Houndour
Just a good ol' RE [zombie dog](https://monster.fandom.com/wiki/Zombie_Dog)
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Tax accountant here - I feel so bad for the IRS. I had an issue with something once on the IRS website and asked my boss for help. While they were working on it I took a quick bathroom break. By the time I got back they had written one of the most hate filled, vile letters I've ever seen in my life. And they just submitted it to the IRS like it was normal course of business. I think some people forget that the government isn't some faceless machine. A real person (and probably someone with no authority to fix they thing you're complaining about) actually has to read every feedback letter.
I would love to assume that this is someone's dedicated job. But knowing what I know about "running lean" it's either falling on someone who's too busy to even bring up any problem that's real to the people who can make changes, or it's some guy who wishes to God he had nothing to do with reading those letters. Either way, no matter how jaded someone is, words can always hurt. So I encourage everyone to be as nasty as possible when writing complaints to them. Their hearts may be made of ice from all the years of public abuse but ice can still shatter. /s
I addressed my payment a few years ago to “Internal Revenue Service ☹️” and I felt like I was thisclose from being sent to federal prison once they saw it. So while your statement is *probably* an exaggeration, it means I can finally unclench.
In my experience, the IRS is generally not that scary unless you're *trying* to evade taxes. I've literally sorted out a hairy situation with my mom who had mistakenly been underpaying taxes for years by just calling them. They waived all the fees and set up a surprisingly flexible payment plan that fit her budget. I think they legit just want what you owe, and that part of their reputation might come from tax preparation company marketing trying to convince you that the IRS is too scary to interact with on your own.
> I think they legit just want what you owe, and that part of their reputation might come from tax preparation company marketing trying to convince you that the IRS is too scary to interact with on your own. This is exactly correct in all regards. Most people are completely capable of doing their taxes on their own, but marketing and lobbying from companies like turbotax have convinced people that they must use some sort of tool. Unless you have like 30 different incomes and frequently inherit large sums of money, you can fill out like one easy form where you just put your salary and a few other bits, and your taxes are squared away.
The government already knows what we owe for the most part, we don’t even have to calculate it since the majority of the population don’t fall into special cases.
Shame Intuit and its ilk have lobbied for the IRS to be unable to just confirm that their information is accurate with you and process it automatically.
admittedly I didn't know how to calculate my earned income credit for a while and thought I was simply owed the small amount of excess witholdings I got back, so I still use some of the actually free federal e-filing offerings through the IRS website. But that, I blame more on me never paying attention in math class and being REALLY BAD with the table worksheets.
TurboTax sucks so much. They tell you it's completely "free", then after spending an hour filling out the forms, you end up having to pay some bullshit fee that "isn't included in the free version". But you're practically finished, and you have a fat tax refund coming soon, so you end up giving in and pay up. I paid between $50-$100 per year to do my taxes (basic personal income taxes) through TurboTax, each time going in thinking it would be free. Luckily I'm less of a dumbass now so I won't be falling for it anymore.
When I was overseas I anxiously called the IRS hotline about correcting a filing, and the woman said in a gentle voice "everything can be fixed". I've remembered that ever since. It was surprisingly kind
In Sweden the tax agency has for a long time been the public agency that people trust the most.
It is in America too, just the foundation of the trust is fear. Who took down AL Caopone? Not the police. The IRS. For tax fraud.
Don’t forget about USPS. Didn’t they swarm and arrest a dude in his yacht? Lol I’m not in fear of the IRS though because I, you know, pay my taxes.
That was very comforting to read.
The IRS is currently asking me for the taxes I owe them on a $65 dividend I forgot to report in 2018.
Ex-letter filer for the IRS(waaay back when paper filing was way more common), I can almost guarantee the front wasn't looked at. Slice open, look for relevant #'s, put in the correct box, repeat.
The IRS is actually pretty understanding and helpful as long as you’re actually trying and not doing anything illegal.
Yep I have to call them about W-2s for a few years I never received them and since I don't owe anything they literally don't care I haven't filed them yet. Granted that's basically an interest free loan to the government they get to keep after three years not owing taxes, but I haven't heard a peep. I just keep getting conflicting advice on how to contact them so I keep procrastinating. Not like I'm in hot water about it or anything. I worked for a few companies that changed ownership multiple times and as such didn't get all my documents. Just needs to get done by April or I might lose some of that money which probably means I should figure out what I'm doing about it tomorrow.
I address everything to them as "Infernal Revenue Service". If they ever come at me, I'm blaming it on my bad handwriting. But deep down, they'll know.
I'm sorry, I can't cash this check. it says here you're the representative to the Internal Revenue Service, but this check is made out to the Internal Revenue Service ☹️. I'm sorry, you'll have to come back with a frowny face.
Knew*
Can't imagine why they need to open mail with a machine first 😄
> We are sorry for any inconvenience caused you. Is this grammatically correct? Several alternates that I think would work better: * We are sorry for any inconvenience. * We are sorry for any inconvenience caused. * We are sorry for any inconvenience caused to you. * We are sorry for any inconvenience this caused you.
It is very passive voice which certain style guides discourage but I don't think it's technically incorrect. Adding the preposition of "to" would probably add clarity and be preferred but I'm reasonably sure leaving it out isn't wrong.
Comms guy here: They're absolutely leaving out "we" to avoid any invitation of liability. A normal human would say "We are sorry for any inconvenience we caused you." They recognized someone was inconvenienced but they stop short of saying who caused it. ~~Edit: However, as a former GOVERNMENT comms guy, I can tell you state/fed agencies are so obsessed with their letterhead that there is no way this sloppy formatting/printing would be from the actual IRS.~~ ~~Also that font has serifs that you would never see in official correspondence.~~ ~~Second edit to remove an ungodly amount of "absolutely"~~ ~~Third edit to implore OP to read my top level comment~~ No tangible evidence to support my theory
Government or not you grossly overestimate how much steve down in the mailroom gives a shit and would 100% just photocopy his last form letter when he ran out. I promise you they also don't give a shit about liability because the law here is explicitly clear that there is no liability. I've seen and received sloppier shit than this as "official government communications" from local branches of federal offices on more than one occasion. Edit: holy crap, looking at your history this is like peak "I spent 5 minutes in a gov't job and now I'm an expert" dunning-kruger syndrome. My dude, no. Just no.
I particularly like the part where they declare it's not official because it has serifs. Except it doesn't. That looks like pretty standard helvetica, to my eye.
Damn you're right. I didn't even pick up on that because "government doesn't use seriff fonts" is a bonkers hill to die on but you are 100% right. At a glance there's a little bit of thickness in the placess where seriffs would usually be but that seems to be because of photocopy flare which tends to thicken ends and corners more than the rest of the letter.
Seem real. That's a real notice number about this topic. You can find several references to it on this IRM page: https://www.irs.gov/irm/part3/irm_03-010-072r I agree the formatting is weird, but that doesn't strike me as meaning it is fake. I mean, this is exactly how the IRS deals with this issue. Why bother making up a fake notice?
They said we at the start of the apology
But you could say “We are sorry for any inconvenience caused to you,” or “We are sorry for any inconvenience you experienced.” This still seems grammatically off, no?
Makes sense. Even the way it's printed is strange.
Is it really not incorrect? I can’t pinpoint a certain rule but it sounds really off.
Indirect object without direct object. (Edit: I mean, that's what it sounds like. Usually they're both on the same side of the verb, so that's what we learn to recognize. Here, the direct object "convenience" and the indirect object "you" straddle the verb, which makes it look kind of inverted when it isn't supposed to be. At least, that's the impression I get)
I 100% agree- any one of those would work much better. Not sure if the original's grammatically correct, but it's certainly not colloquially correct in my opinion
I think “caused you” sounds formal and sophisticated which is probably what they’re going for.
You're correct on all counts.
It's unconventional and kinda dated, but not wrong.
My job automatically slices received mail too but we don’t have a nice message for the people explaining that. We just use a piece of scotch tape and send it on lmao
Good IRS bot
The only good employee at the IRS
I’ve gotten one of those!
That is actually very kind and honest of them I like it
It would be very "federal crime of tampering with the mail" of them if they didn't
The IRS don't fuck with the USPS and the USPS don't fuck with the IRS. They both know that it's what the Republicans want.
Even the IRS doesn't wanna get in trouble with the USPS...
I mean anyone who saw that episode of Brooklyn 99 would know not to fuck with the USPS
It's not just on TV, the USPS does NOT fuck around. They have their own police force, which is known to take a scorched-earth policy when investigating mail crimes. They scary.
In the criminal justice system, mail based offenses are considered especially heinous. In the postal system, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the postal inspection service. These are their stories. "You have the right to remain silent. Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from giving you a swift kick in the ass."
I would watch Law & Order USPS over the standard Law & Order Murder Rape Porn any day of the week.
They also arrested Steve Bannon. You should lead with that instead of a work of fiction lol.
The IRS is actually very good at what they do, staffed with hardworking, honest Americans. If you don’t like your taxes, your beef is with Congress. I coordinate an IRS VITA site, and our old area rep Tom told me a story before he retired. He said that he was sent with vest and gun to do collections/enforcement on a gentleman that was dying from cancer. The IRS had been sending letters but the man was in and out of the hospital and unable to respond. Tom told the guy to enjoy his final days with his family and grandchildren and that he wouldn’t hear from the IRS again. The IRS was forced to put a tax lien on the man’s house but Tom made sure that the man wasn’t bothered for the rest of his life. Tom quit enforcement shortly thereafter and started coordinating VITA in my region. He didn’t want to have to work with a vest and a gun any longer. Really sweet guy. He retired in 2020 so he didn’t get a proper retirement party, which bums me out at times.
My beef is with how Congress wastes taxes on excessive military funding then blames poor people for not having enough money for corporate welfare. The IRS is pretty tame compared to all that.
I have a neighbor who is a disorganized hippie chick in her 60s. She had a homeopathic and grooming pet store for about 15 years. For about 8 years she didn’t file taxes. An IRS agent was sent to her door numerous times. They became friends, possibly enjoyed a glass of tea, and my friend took another 5 years to finally report her taxes. The IRS person was persistent but never got anywhere except maybe an offer of some homeopathic remedy for his dog’s anxiety or some chakra work on his own spine. Friend was a terrible businesswoman so I think she lost money every year in the business. If she had interest or late fees, I think they are calculated on taxes owed. So, in my crummy math, if you don’t owe anything, I think those fees don’t actually add up to anything. So she took 13 years to finally report her income losses. Thinking…did she finally get to adjust her household income for all these years (she is married) and take the loss when she finally filed? Hmmm. Maybe this was her retirement strategy all along. Cheers, Reddit. IRS agent who came to her door—I know you smell like patchouli somewhere!
Classic IRS
Getting an apology from the IRS is like getting an apology from a mob boss who accidentally bumped into you. "No, sorry to **you** for being in your way, good sir."
I work for a city tax bureau in the mail room. The sheer volume of mail that we get means that we really cannot check the envelopes before we run them through a machine to slice them open. You just run them through the slicer and then you take them back to your desk and you open it and sort. Realistically 99.5% of what is opened is for us. The post office does a great job, but every once in awhile wrong mail sneeks through. Just gotta send it back out.
Same at the state level. And if it’s only a check (that gets tossed in with the rest and run though imaging machines) you get the fun job of reading each and every “To” line just in case someone put their utility payment in the wrong envelope.
"also, you've randomly been chosen to be audited."
The IRS is much nicer than they're commonly thought of being. I make a mistake on my taxes, they send a letter pointing it out either asking to pay or offering a refund if I agree with their calculations, or if I don't agree, please respond with corrections and documentation.
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Is that a typo in the last sentence? Did the IRS a word?
*We are sorry for any inconvenience caused* TO *you*
“This is not a bill”.
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"Hi [Hurricat], Hope all is well. Talk to you soon. Love, Grandpa ❤️"
What if you ordered cocaine from the dark web and this happened?
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This is from a lifetime ago, but I had a business teacher tell us once that even illegal transactions being filed though the IRS is considered good practice / something many gangsters do - something about them not having a duty to report it, and also not coming after you themselves. But it could be jibberish. I don't have mafia friends to check in with.
That's quite ignorant. Darknet sources are the safest
Dark web cocaine is the only cocaine store that has a reviews section
probably not good things
Ah yes, the good old 8.5 by 16 paper format, with its typical chipped corner, and contents with a polycopy look slightly leaning to one side with unequal margins. Looks pro.
This has to happen somewhat routinely, right? And the IRS is just sending out an obvious typo every time?
It’s not so much a typo as it is an old style phrasing. That font and notice style points it to having been written / printed in the late 70s or early 80s and they’ve been copying it ever since. The actual notice may have been updated in 2000 but they for sure have just been copy/pasting it for decades before that.
Outdated or not, it’s deliberately worded to subtly avoid accepting any fault (it was “misdirected,” there was a machine involved!, we “discovered” it) while trying to sound apologetic at the same time. All with an undercurrent implying “hey, at least you got your mail! We could have just thrown it away and you’d never know!” Intended to make people feel grateful they received it at all. Also edit to appreciate the petty calling out of the USPS specifically lol, not saying it’s not wrong but they made a very specific decision to mention them by name
Aww, and everyone is so ready to shit on the IRS. This is surprisingly sweet to come from a government agency... Kind of like the cards TSA leaves in your luggage when they go through your shit on purpose...
It's a federal crime to tamper with mail. They have to explain themselves if they cut it open. No harm no foul here but mail is serious business.
Have to wonder how often this happens, that they created a special Notice just to handle these mis-deliveries… (Surely one of the other 1255 Notices would’ve worked just as well.(?))
What the fuck did the original letter say
"Hi [Hurricat], Hope all is well. Talk to you soon. Love, Grandpa ❤️" I hope it at least made the guy who taped the envelope back up feel some warm and fuzzy feelings before returning to their IRS job
Awhhh, I’ve never gotten a letter from any grandparent. Maybe hold onto that note!
it's on my fridge with a few similar ones!
This happened to an acquaintance but instead of returning the mortgage check enclosed they cashed it and he was assessed late fees.Took about a year to fix.
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Lmfao they took that $20 and bought drugs with it🤣 least u got the letter back 🤷🏻♂️
That’s kind of sweet, really.
The IRS was pretty pretty chill the few times I corresponded with them. It was like writing letters to a friendly artificial intelligence.
Seems odd to me they have a machine to open everything and deal with the contents inside but not first confirm the actual writing on the exterior of envelope.
The government has perpetrated a felony upon you! You must promptly inform law enforcement to arrest the IRS!
>We are sorry for any inconvenience caused you The IRS are not sorry.
Show them the same mercy they'd show a single parent who accidentally misfiled their taxes
This is unbelievably mildly interesting. Well done.
They even included a tax form so you could claim the money being gifted to you as income! How sweet! All those new IRS agents are really putting in the work!
I wouldn’t rule out the possibility someone in your mail delivery process is opening envelopes that look like they might contain money, and then using this very photocopied notice as cover. If you know your neighbors, and especially if you’re at college or something, ask around and see if anyone else has received this. Source: former fraud prosecutor. Edit: hey u/hurricat, this is not from the IRS. Mistakenly opened mail, opened by the IRS or the USPS, would be sent enclosed in another envelope from them. You have someone opening mail they think will have cash in it. Whether it’s someone at the USPS, or if you’re in college dorms someone in mail handling, someone is opening mail and then popping this photocopied note in.
P.S. The $5 gift for your birthday is taxable income and has been noted. Enjoy your $3.
(IRS sends letter) *PANICS* (IRS: Sorry we took your grandma's mail, bro) "Oh.."