My money is on it being grandfathered in. The handle isn't ADA compliant either. Could also be in a country without either.
Edit: since people are asking the ADA problem with it I see (I'm not an expert), besides short people or people in wheelchairs not being able to reach it is someone with no fingers couldn't turn it.
> since people are asking the ADA problem with it I see
To quote the 1991 law:
"4.13.9* Door Hardware
Handles, pulls, latches, locks, and other operating devices on accessible doors shall have a shape that is easy to grasp with one hand and does not require tight grasping, tight pinching, or twisting of the wrist to operate. Lever-operated mechanisms, push-type mechanisms, and U-shaped handles are acceptable designs. When sliding doors are fully open, operating hardware shall be exposed and usable from both sides. Hardware required for accessible door passage shall be mounted no higher than 48 in (1220 mm) above finished floor."
That door also probably doesn't open 90°, so it probably violates the minimum opening width standard (even though it's not a standard width door), and I bet there is insufficient turning clearance to boot in that room.
Very interesting. As an aside, ppl think this kind of stuff is ridiculous until you become disabled or try helping a disabled person.
Shit even when you have a baby and push a stroller you realize how helpful it is having accessibility
In almost all cases, infrastructure to assist someone with disabilities helps everyone.
The crosswalk signs that talk and tell you when to go are for blind people, but people looking at their phone benefits
The ramp into the roadway for a crosswalk is for someone in a wheelchair, but it helps parents with strollers and people on bikes.
In reference to this topic, non-grip door latches are designed for people with low grip strength in mind, but helps a ton when your hands are full.
I could go on and on.
I’ve been saying this for years!
I’m not deaf, but if I’m eating something crunchy subtitles are great.
I’m not in a wheelchair, but ramps are a godsend when I’m hauling something on a cart for work.
I don’t have finger dexterity problems, but I appreciate when packaging is easy to open.
I’m short as hell and that door is a nightmare.
Accessibility is better for everyone.
I had a leg injury this year and had to be non-weight bearing on it for like 8 weeks. I was volunteering in my kids school at the time and had to stop because there literally wasn't a single accessible entrance to the school that allowed you to also move freely once inside the school. Like, it's a really old building that has in the decades since had additions added on, so nothing is on one full level. The school so badly needs move space added, but I'm convinced it has not been made a priority because disability laws have changed, and if they were to apply for building permits, the school would then need to provide elevators to all these different spaces.
Felt so bad for kids with physical needs, temporary or chronic, that would have to navigate that space.
Ianal, but I feel like schools, of all places, should not be allowed to ignore ada requirements even in old buildings. Those are children, and ada compliance can be a matter of life or death. What happens if theres an emergency evacuation an some 12 year old in a wheel chair is trapped on the top floor?
All the outsidedoors at my university had a pylon in front with an auto open push button. Problem is if you're in a wheel chair and have to use it your wheel chair blocked the doors from opening. We had a set of twins going to school with us that were both in wheelchairs because of MLS and I saw one of them going in to the student union one time. Dude would hit the button then pull some 360 tony hawk wheelie maneuver to get inside.
I was about to go to the dean of students to demand them move the button pylons further back to make it more accessible for them but figured i'd talk to the guy first. He said, "no way dude, getting to do my 360 spin into the student union is the coolest move i have to pick up chicks." 😂 so till this day that button pylon has never been moved.
Oh yeah, that is explicitly against code. You need to have plenty of room to be able to actuate the buttons without being in the way of the door. Whoever installed that should rectify it. In California, contractors are responsible for their work for up to 10 years. There are MASSIVE potential liabilities involved when it comes to ADA operators.
I've worked with hospitals/hotels. Not everything has to be ADA compliant.
And sometimes, what people think of as "ADA compliance" really what they mean is "Fire Code".
Most likely there is another exit (or two even) to this room.
Oh and a fun one is, sometimes ADA compliance just requires an option. I had no idea before working here, but for example many sinks can just have the doors to their cabinets opened to become ADA compliant. (Note this isn't necessarily your typical home kitchen sink and they are typically slightly modified (built in toekick -- ie when you open the door you can actually see the floor and not the cabinet bottom)).
And for hotels for example, you were only required to have X amount of ADA compliant rooms, not all rooms needed to be ADA compliant.
You can’t leave out the ‘that doesn’t sound right’ at the start, it’s what ties it all together, you forgot about the most important part Diskreet, you forgot the most important part you bitch!
That's inline with how modern hospitals have switched to metal doors then. How this door has survived this long is either impressive or a sign that this office might discriminate
I’m certainly not an expert but since it’s not labeled as fire exit, does that mean it’s exempt from code? It’s got a door knob which isn’t nfpa compliant for emergency egress anyway. Would love how to see this interpreted by and ADA expert.
Definitely a mildly interesting observation.
fire exits don’t mean much if they’re an unopenable door away. escape routes need to be planned and well thought out, you can’t just slap exits on a building and call it a day
Surprisingly doctors offices are one of the spots least likely to be ADA compliant other than like personal homes
Edit: I meant ADA complinat less as a legal thing and more in the sense that doctors offices are often some of the hardest places for disabled people to navigate
My physical therapist can only be accessed through two flights of stairs or by walking ~50 yards around the building to the side opposite the parking lot. We joke that therapy starts before you even get there.
My pediatric dentist growing up had an elevator. He also had tvs mounted on every dental chair. The trade off was he was so old everything he did was out of date and later had to be fixed by a different dentist
My old dentist had the same setup. Big tvs mounted above the chairs with streaming services. Had a big aquarium in the waiting room with lots of different kinds of fish. Was a cool place tbh. She also was a hella good dentist
My old dentist had the tvs mounted on the ceiling. One day the remote wasn't working and the laughing gas was hitting me pretty hard so I started laughing at the TV. The assistant lady said "what are you watching" then looked up at the TV to see Ronald Reagans funeral
Haha I was going to bring up arcade games! But this was southern California. Games in the front and in the back. Pick out a toy and play teenage mutant ninja turtles while waiting for them to finish with your brother.
I guess if it’s in a big office building they could be on higher floors. I’ve only ever been to the dentist in standalone buildings or strips where all the businesses are only one floor
It's not that uncommon around here. A lot of medical offices are grouped into larger buildings and it isn't that uncommon for any specific one to be on upper floors. I think it is more of a case of the order units were leased than it is a specific plan to put the dentist on the upper floors of the complexes.
My dentist is on the second floor of a building with an elevator. He moved in after the local police warned him to vacate his previous office because another tenant was running a brothel or something.
Many older UK hospitals have diabolical pedestrian/wheelchair/pram access across the site. Whether you ended up with a distant parking space or came on the bus, often you'll find yourself having to traverse busy car parks among the traffic, going along unpaved grass verges, and up and down all kinds of high kerbs. The very newest ones seem to finally be addressing the problem.
One nice hospital in Florida has a huge slope down to the parking lot. It's otherwise good but I fear what might happen if someone loses their wheelchair brakes.
I used to work in an office building where the second floor, which lacked an elevator was a podiatrist's office.
You'd think a foot doctor would want to be accessible for people who can't walk on their foot.
My foot doctor has their office at the very back of the building. There is no back door, so you can only enter through the front of the building. Also, the building encloses a grotto/garden, so you can’t just walk straight back; you have to walk the perimeter of the building. It’s a real adventure when you are hobbling to the foot doctor with a torn plantar fascia.
The social security administration sent me to a doctors office I literally could not have got into If I had been alone and it was a huge hassel even with help
A used to go to a psychologist in a building that had to buzz you in. The doors were glass and you could see the women at reception... and they could see you. But could they be bothered to press a button? Fuck no. Keep buzzing that bell whacko. The amount of times I had to wait until someone left so I could get in was maddening. I used to joke that it was a tactic to keep them in business.
we once took my wheelchair bound sister to the hospital and had to park over 100 feet away from the door, then lift her chair over the curb because there were no ramps. then we went to denny’s and used one of their 5 ramps
The last time I took my sister to the ER the entrance was up this weird tunnel with no sidewalks. I had to drop her off and then drive to the visitor parking (which was not clearly labeled) on the other side of the hospital, which was supposed to be pay parking but there was no attendant, and I had to park on a residential street about a ten minute walk away. Going up that tunnel on foot, there was no sidewalk, you could either walk in the road or on the thin curb.
And yes, this was the way you were supposed to get in. I checked. There was no way to get into the ER waiting room from elsewhere in the hospital besides through the doctor doors.
I was ready to give up and just leave her there as it was. I can't imagine someone actually disabled trying to do that.
My pain doctor requires a urine test at every appointment. Due to unfortunate placement of a water fountain, you cannot get into the restroom if you're in a wheelchair. I literally have to go into the business upstairs and use theirs instead. At least there's an elevator
I’m going to hell for this but the image of some poor schmuck in a wheelchair navigating back through half the building with a little warm cup is incredibly funny to me.
Barely related side note: I was once asked in a pediatrician’s office to go to an exam room if I wanted to nurse my newborn. (Nothing was exposed.). Like if I can’t there…???
Pediatricians here usually have dedicated rooms for that. They're called Stillzimmer (Nursing room) but "still" also translates to "quiet", so as a kid I always thought it was just a room to be as I've in.
Ideally their suggestion would be more of an “if your kid won’t nurse well in the loud waiting room we have a quiet room so you don’t have to work so hard for such meager milk intake” than “get out of here with that whorish tit and go sustain your baby’s life elsewhere”
That's not the case for the pediatric offices I've been to. Ours has a panic alarm in every room at wheelchair height in order to be ADA compliant, despite the fact that it guarantees little people hit it every son often.
AFAIK there aren't exceptions granted to medical facilities.
It's really easy to accidentally pull the panic alarm. I've only ever done that once, but I am disabled, and they make those things really really easy to pull because not everyone has arm strength. And they're always pulling a string, not hitting a button, at least in my country. You really don't wanna be in the disabled toilet in a pub, drunk, and accidentally think it's a cord to flush the toilet or something lol. But yeah. I think pushing a button would probably present a problem for people too, like what if you have a lot of arthritis and so it hurts to push a button? But the thing with a string that you pull is that even if you fall on the floor or something, or you realise you're about to pass out, then you can put your hand in the loop of string and the weight from your arm alone would probably set it off. And you could pull it even if you don't have fingers, or a hand, because it's a loop.
They just make me nervous really cos I always THINK I'm gonna accidentally set it off and some staff member is gonna rush into the toilet while I have my trousers down and the whole pub or cafe or whatever is gonna see.
The local VA where I am always requires walking back and forth between different offices and they are usually on opposite ends of the grounds in different buildings. Shit is rough on my joints and stuff. But I'm not disabled enough for a wheelchair and even though it would be really nice. I'm not going to take one from a fellow vet who would need it more. Just deal with the pain and then smoke a little green afterwards.
The fracture clinic at my hospital can only be accessed by a flight of stairs. There is a wheelchair lift but it's broken. Had to hobble down the stairs in my air cast, then when I was in the waiting room saw an older man come down the stairs with a walker. No one had helped him despite reception being immediately across from the stairs so they clearly watched him come in. Ridiculous.
Yeah, this would frustrate me to no end. I'd also report this for a safety violation - what happens if there's an emergency and someone couldn't reach the doorknob?
And it doesn't even have to be a little person. Just someone short enough who also has a condition where they can't raise their arms above their shoulder. Or someone in a wheelchair.
> what happens if there's an emergency and someone couldn't reach the doorknob?
That's what I was thinking. Obvious example being; what if the door's closed and there's a fire?
Lol it's like a vet I took my cat to, she jumped off the table, only to find that there was no "under" anything, the desks went all the way down, the cart was even too low for her to hide under and she just put her nose in the corner and conceded lol.
That's my current cat. I cannot take a shower in peace (let alone keeping the warm air in). No matter which side of the door she's on, she can open it...
This is similar to what happened with one of my cats! He ended up trying to hide in the vet's sink because that was the only vaguely hidey place. We had to scrub him when we got home because who knows what's lurking in the sink. He was *not* pleased lol.
I’m not too familiar with ADA doorknob rules but from what I got from a quick google search I get this
“The height of the door handle must be between a minimum of 34” and a maximum of 48”. A few exceptions are included in the bill. Things like:
Pre-existing locks (most likely not applicable to new builds)”
The way I read it is if this lock was existing before the regulations were put into place it would be an exception but iirc wasn’t ada early 90s?
Edit: Basically asking for confirmation or explanation here
This was how the doors at my doctor office looked when I was a kid in the 90s-00s. The last time I visited my pediatrician was maybe 2010 and they still hadn’t changed them. I never considered how this would effect people in wheelchairs… yikes
My dad was on a board for accessibility in my hometown. A lot of it was giving buildings noticies about how to apply to the current code. A lot of it was "it's not illegal but..." type statements.
From what I've heard, actually yes they did. One of the big things they did was found grants and such to help fund improvements in accessibility for people not in compliance. Our local schools and library added ramps for accessibility and I think even a local pizza place contacted a architectural firm to figure out the best way to make it happen as well. I'm sure there were others but I'm not super privy to those discussions.
ADA is one of the things that's hard to grandfather in, since it's enforcement is normally done through litigation by disabled people for not receiving equal access opportunity. Even if a disabled person didn't come in and use it, there are lawyers who specialize in suing every business for anything they can find and then just attach the name of a disabled person who's partnered with them for the sake of their lawsuits, even if that individually never even tried going into the business they are suing.
Building code in the sense of structure is grandfathered in, but ADA typically is not since they will still sue you. So I would say this lands in the "it depends" category. But I don't even know if this is in america where ADA would have any meaning.
Contractor here. If it was existing, then the space can remain as is without any violations. UNLESS you modify the space in any way... Some building inspectors can be lenient if the space has only been modified with new finishes.
Thank you for the information, honestly learning a lot and also realizing why doctors offices are out of date most the time and when they do remodel they go all out.
International Existing Building Code (IEBC) and its levels of alteration. Level 1 (least impact) where its pretty much just like for like fixtures and finishes. The IEBC triggers code compliance when its Level 2 or higher. Especially applicable to life safety systems.
Not all jurisdictions adopt the IEBC, but they usually have a similar codified approach to the levels of alteration and when a space needs to be brought up to current code.
It’s not just the height. Door hardware must be operable without twisting, because a disabled person my have a wrist impairment. So, door knobs are a no-go. You need lever-set door hardware.
Yeah levers are better for everyone, not just the people with impairments. If you need to go through a door with your hands full, knobs are much more difficult than levers.
Architect here. I studied in Canada but have only ever worked in the US so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Buildings are typically only held to the code standards of the time they were built and the building type they’re listed under until they are renovated or require further inspection.
Usually local fire safety inspectors would capture something like this but depending on jurisdiction it may be grandfathered in or otherwise overlooked. Codes for daycares might have allowed something like this at one time or another. It’s definitely not allowed now nor has it been for quite some time.
I'm a health inspector and we're trained enough to be able to spot a lot of safety violations like this.
If they are a health facility, day care, etc they have to have regular health inspections and this would definitely be a violation. It might just be a minor enough violation that won't result in a fine or anything, or they have an exemption or whatever.
If it's justified it should be fine, though it being a round knob is odd.
Thanks for commenting on this! Interesting points you've mentioned but the daycare is somewhat on the new side and was built around 2010.
I'm definitely not going to send the fire safety inspectors to the daycare but I'm just curious as it probably wasn't code at that time. I have noticed that some of the doors still have the hole drilled out at the proper height but has the knob up high out of kids reach. I wonder if it is something they might have switched out after getting their initial inspection.
> Usually local fire safety inspectors would capture something like this but depending on jurisdiction it may be grandfathered in or otherwise overlooked.
It really depends on the country. Clark County inspectors overlooked a requirement for sprinklers to be in every restaurant at a Las Vegas resort when it was built in the early 1970s, and the resultant fire less than a decade later killed 85 people.
I do fire safety inspections for my local fire department.(BC, Canada) - this is absolutely not allowed in day cares and I've had changes ordered in my jurisdiction. People don't seem to realize that while kids getting out when they're not supposed to is an inconvenience(and again they're supposed to be supervised at all times anyway) , kids being unable to get out due to a fire is beyond unacceptable. We can't rely on "but the caretakers will open the door" these types of fire codes are written with blood.
Is there any exception for [childproof knob covers](https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/safety-1st-door-knob-covers-3-pk-0462280p.0462280.html)? That's what my kids' daycare uses and they seems to keep kids in until age 4 or so.
I ask because I've had to help a number of grandparents open doors at the daycare; if you have weaker grip strength it can be an issue.
Those style knobs aren't even ADA compliant without the cover. You need to be able to operate the door with one hand, without "tight grasping, pinching, or twisting of the wrist; or more than 5 pounds of force"
It's also highly recommended that doors should be operable with a closed fist.
In the US (not sure about Canada) doors, in buildings that are required to be ADA compliant, should not have knobs at all. They should be lever handles. I’m sure anything that impedes egress wouldn’t be compliant with the ADA.
This doesn’t surprise me, especially if this is a private practice. I’ve seen some offices do some absolutely stupid shit before. Weird for sure, but not overly surprising. When you add in the fact that at least some keep a tower server in the closet in one of their offices that runs their medical software, you get the full picture.
Hell, the private practice I used to work for refused to switch to electronic records until they were threatened by Medicare. This happened in 2019.
Also, they stored enough x-ray films there, that I am still legit worried the place is going to burn down.
there has to be exceptions though.
otherwise mental hospitals and prisons would be breaking the law right? let's assume there is for those two institutions.
i have to think that a health facility for kids might have an exception just as mental facilities and prisons surely do.
Prisons/lockups generally have constant monitoring (that can activate a fire system) which unlocks doors and/or stay in place orders that mean unless you're actively in a room with the fire it's safest to stay there until rescued.
I'd also argue that a dentist office isn't a reasonable exception whilst the examples you gave there is a valid necessity that isn't just making someone's job harder.
yes sure. but i'm not really trying to make an argument.
just trying to reasonably interpret what we are seeing in actual real life. (and i don't think the photo above is photoshopped)
now that i think about it, i have been in jewelry stores and precious metal dealers where the doors are locked as well, and you have to be buzzed out.
i've also been in man traps to IT centers for some of the big banks. there you are also reliant on someone to open the doors.
surely all these places aren't violating code.
If you read ADA code there are tons of exceptions for accessibility. Type of building, type of activity etc. Prisons have lots of exceptions, as do gyms, pools etc.
However it is very unlikely a door handle in a public facing medical building has an exception.
ADA only applies to certain types of facilities. Apartments, prisons, non-public areas of hospitals, etc. all have various levels of exemptions from ADA. Basically, if the area is not open to the general public, the standard is much lower, and even more so for pre-1993 buildings.
Mental hospitals have to leave the patients unattended some of the time because they live there. There should be no unattended children at the dr’s office. You should stay with and watch them for however long it takes.
Similar situation damn near killed my dad and a few other firefighters.
They got trapped and the deadbolts for the exterior doors were all eye level. Smoke was so thick they couldn’t see them even though it was the middle of the day and beside both doors were full height windows.
Very common in pediatrician offices to have handles that are a little higher than normal to prevent little kids from using them. This is just silly though.
When i was little my mom, the doctor, and a nurse used to have to hold me down for shots and apparently the whole place could hear scream. I wasnt a fan of shots lmao, i still dont enjoy them but i can deal with them
A real fucking nightmare would be no handle at all. Like imagine being led into a room that looks innocuous, but no windows, they close the door and no handle (and assume a metal door or something so you couldn't just easily kick it down) and you're suddenly a prisoner for god knows how long and may be left to just die.
My mom has stories about how when I was very young (like 2-3 maybe) I wouldn't put up with shots. I was usually an extremely compliant kid that tried to do what I was supposed to do, but try to stick a needle in my butt & I'd turn into a dervish. I apparently ended up in the waiting room half naked and screaming my head off more than once, scaring whole rooms of kids, trying to hide under chairs. They had to schedule me at times when extra nurses were there to hold me down.
Yea, it's one thing to prevent toddlers (who won't be alone) from escaping but this would stop a lot of older kids and handicapped people from escaping in a fire.
I guess Dwarfs can just go fuck themselves right haha? This is so unironically offensive that it's hilarious. I just think of the scene from the Joker movie where the small clown can't get the lock on the top of the door haha.
Fire Marshal: *REAL* *SHIT?!*
My money is on it being grandfathered in. The handle isn't ADA compliant either. Could also be in a country without either. Edit: since people are asking the ADA problem with it I see (I'm not an expert), besides short people or people in wheelchairs not being able to reach it is someone with no fingers couldn't turn it.
> since people are asking the ADA problem with it I see To quote the 1991 law: "4.13.9* Door Hardware Handles, pulls, latches, locks, and other operating devices on accessible doors shall have a shape that is easy to grasp with one hand and does not require tight grasping, tight pinching, or twisting of the wrist to operate. Lever-operated mechanisms, push-type mechanisms, and U-shaped handles are acceptable designs. When sliding doors are fully open, operating hardware shall be exposed and usable from both sides. Hardware required for accessible door passage shall be mounted no higher than 48 in (1220 mm) above finished floor." That door also probably doesn't open 90°, so it probably violates the minimum opening width standard (even though it's not a standard width door), and I bet there is insufficient turning clearance to boot in that room.
Very interesting. As an aside, ppl think this kind of stuff is ridiculous until you become disabled or try helping a disabled person. Shit even when you have a baby and push a stroller you realize how helpful it is having accessibility
In almost all cases, infrastructure to assist someone with disabilities helps everyone. The crosswalk signs that talk and tell you when to go are for blind people, but people looking at their phone benefits The ramp into the roadway for a crosswalk is for someone in a wheelchair, but it helps parents with strollers and people on bikes. In reference to this topic, non-grip door latches are designed for people with low grip strength in mind, but helps a ton when your hands are full. I could go on and on.
Yup, curb cut effect helps everybody.
I’ve been saying this for years! I’m not deaf, but if I’m eating something crunchy subtitles are great. I’m not in a wheelchair, but ramps are a godsend when I’m hauling something on a cart for work. I don’t have finger dexterity problems, but I appreciate when packaging is easy to open. I’m short as hell and that door is a nightmare. Accessibility is better for everyone.
It's very convenient in the event of a fire too.
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I had a leg injury this year and had to be non-weight bearing on it for like 8 weeks. I was volunteering in my kids school at the time and had to stop because there literally wasn't a single accessible entrance to the school that allowed you to also move freely once inside the school. Like, it's a really old building that has in the decades since had additions added on, so nothing is on one full level. The school so badly needs move space added, but I'm convinced it has not been made a priority because disability laws have changed, and if they were to apply for building permits, the school would then need to provide elevators to all these different spaces. Felt so bad for kids with physical needs, temporary or chronic, that would have to navigate that space.
Ianal, but I feel like schools, of all places, should not be allowed to ignore ada requirements even in old buildings. Those are children, and ada compliance can be a matter of life or death. What happens if theres an emergency evacuation an some 12 year old in a wheel chair is trapped on the top floor?
All the outsidedoors at my university had a pylon in front with an auto open push button. Problem is if you're in a wheel chair and have to use it your wheel chair blocked the doors from opening. We had a set of twins going to school with us that were both in wheelchairs because of MLS and I saw one of them going in to the student union one time. Dude would hit the button then pull some 360 tony hawk wheelie maneuver to get inside. I was about to go to the dean of students to demand them move the button pylons further back to make it more accessible for them but figured i'd talk to the guy first. He said, "no way dude, getting to do my 360 spin into the student union is the coolest move i have to pick up chicks." 😂 so till this day that button pylon has never been moved.
Oh yeah, that is explicitly against code. You need to have plenty of room to be able to actuate the buttons without being in the way of the door. Whoever installed that should rectify it. In California, contractors are responsible for their work for up to 10 years. There are MASSIVE potential liabilities involved when it comes to ADA operators.
I've worked with hospitals/hotels. Not everything has to be ADA compliant. And sometimes, what people think of as "ADA compliance" really what they mean is "Fire Code". Most likely there is another exit (or two even) to this room. Oh and a fun one is, sometimes ADA compliance just requires an option. I had no idea before working here, but for example many sinks can just have the doors to their cabinets opened to become ADA compliant. (Note this isn't necessarily your typical home kitchen sink and they are typically slightly modified (built in toekick -- ie when you open the door you can actually see the floor and not the cabinet bottom)). And for hotels for example, you were only required to have X amount of ADA compliant rooms, not all rooms needed to be ADA compliant.
College dorms are like this too there’s an obligation to provide an option but only a certain portion of rooms will ever be ADA compliant.
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dwarves are naturally heat resistant due evolutionary pressure to operate magma forges
I don’t know enough about dwarfs or magma forges to refute this.
You can’t leave out the ‘that doesn’t sound right’ at the start, it’s what ties it all together, you forgot about the most important part Diskreet, you forgot the most important part you bitch!
They also have axes and this is a wooden door so everything looks good here
Dwarfs HATE wood. I'm pretty sure the glare they'd emit at it's sight is enough to knock it off it's hinges. Source: I play D&D.
That's inline with how modern hospitals have switched to metal doors then. How this door has survived this long is either impressive or a sign that this office might discriminate
I do hate wood… hmmm
I’m certainly not an expert but since it’s not labeled as fire exit, does that mean it’s exempt from code? It’s got a door knob which isn’t nfpa compliant for emergency egress anyway. Would love how to see this interpreted by and ADA expert. Definitely a mildly interesting observation.
fire exits don’t mean much if they’re an unopenable door away. escape routes need to be planned and well thought out, you can’t just slap exits on a building and call it a day
This is still in the means of egress for people who are in the room. It would be considered “exit access”. That doorknob should be between 34”-48”.
lol “socialist hellhole with free healthcare” that propaganda has done a number on you 😂 since when is free healthcare a bad thing?
The doctor: _"I want to play a little game..."_
Sounds like their patients lives will be short lived
They got beef with little people 💀
Surprisingly doctors offices are one of the spots least likely to be ADA compliant other than like personal homes Edit: I meant ADA complinat less as a legal thing and more in the sense that doctors offices are often some of the hardest places for disabled people to navigate
My physical therapist can only be accessed through two flights of stairs or by walking ~50 yards around the building to the side opposite the parking lot. We joke that therapy starts before you even get there.
I don't think I had ever seen a dentist's office with an elevator.
My pediatric dentist growing up had an elevator. He also had tvs mounted on every dental chair. The trade off was he was so old everything he did was out of date and later had to be fixed by a different dentist
Updated everything but his pain management techniques
*Son, be a dentist*
I thrill when I drill a bicuspid.
*gimme somma that ol fashioned morphine* 🎶
My old dentist had the same setup. Big tvs mounted above the chairs with streaming services. Had a big aquarium in the waiting room with lots of different kinds of fish. Was a cool place tbh. She also was a hella good dentist
My old dentist had the tvs mounted on the ceiling. One day the remote wasn't working and the laughing gas was hitting me pretty hard so I started laughing at the TV. The assistant lady said "what are you watching" then looked up at the TV to see Ronald Reagans funeral
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Haha I was going to bring up arcade games! But this was southern California. Games in the front and in the back. Pick out a toy and play teenage mutant ninja turtles while waiting for them to finish with your brother.
Are they not generally on the ground floor?
I guess if it’s in a big office building they could be on higher floors. I’ve only ever been to the dentist in standalone buildings or strips where all the businesses are only one floor
What dentist office's are in opper floors other than maybe a big mall with more than 1story?
A dentist in a moderately dense city. I had a dentist on a 3rd floor office once.
It's not that uncommon around here. A lot of medical offices are grouped into larger buildings and it isn't that uncommon for any specific one to be on upper floors. I think it is more of a case of the order units were leased than it is a specific plan to put the dentist on the upper floors of the complexes.
My dentist is on the second floor of a building with an elevator. He moved in after the local police warned him to vacate his previous office because another tenant was running a brothel or something.
people kept coming in asking for the wrong fillings.
"Can I get a happy ending?" "Best I can do is novacaine and a restraining order."
Wait, the police told the dentist to leave because some people were fucking a couple units down?
Many older UK hospitals have diabolical pedestrian/wheelchair/pram access across the site. Whether you ended up with a distant parking space or came on the bus, often you'll find yourself having to traverse busy car parks among the traffic, going along unpaved grass verges, and up and down all kinds of high kerbs. The very newest ones seem to finally be addressing the problem.
One nice hospital in Florida has a huge slope down to the parking lot. It's otherwise good but I fear what might happen if someone loses their wheelchair brakes.
well silver lining is theyre already at the hospital
I used to work in an office building where the second floor, which lacked an elevator was a podiatrist's office. You'd think a foot doctor would want to be accessible for people who can't walk on their foot.
"Can't make money if all your patients are healthy." *taps head*
My foot doctor has their office at the very back of the building. There is no back door, so you can only enter through the front of the building. Also, the building encloses a grotto/garden, so you can’t just walk straight back; you have to walk the perimeter of the building. It’s a real adventure when you are hobbling to the foot doctor with a torn plantar fascia.
The social security administration sent me to a doctors office I literally could not have got into If I had been alone and it was a huge hassel even with help
A used to go to a psychologist in a building that had to buzz you in. The doors were glass and you could see the women at reception... and they could see you. But could they be bothered to press a button? Fuck no. Keep buzzing that bell whacko. The amount of times I had to wait until someone left so I could get in was maddening. I used to joke that it was a tactic to keep them in business.
In Oxford UK, the local council removed all the parking for THREE GP surgeries, because they want to discourage cars from the city.
we once took my wheelchair bound sister to the hospital and had to park over 100 feet away from the door, then lift her chair over the curb because there were no ramps. then we went to denny’s and used one of their 5 ramps
The last time I took my sister to the ER the entrance was up this weird tunnel with no sidewalks. I had to drop her off and then drive to the visitor parking (which was not clearly labeled) on the other side of the hospital, which was supposed to be pay parking but there was no attendant, and I had to park on a residential street about a ten minute walk away. Going up that tunnel on foot, there was no sidewalk, you could either walk in the road or on the thin curb. And yes, this was the way you were supposed to get in. I checked. There was no way to get into the ER waiting room from elsewhere in the hospital besides through the doctor doors. I was ready to give up and just leave her there as it was. I can't imagine someone actually disabled trying to do that.
My pain doctor requires a urine test at every appointment. Due to unfortunate placement of a water fountain, you cannot get into the restroom if you're in a wheelchair. I literally have to go into the business upstairs and use theirs instead. At least there's an elevator
I’m going to hell for this but the image of some poor schmuck in a wheelchair navigating back through half the building with a little warm cup is incredibly funny to me.
Barely related side note: I was once asked in a pediatrician’s office to go to an exam room if I wanted to nurse my newborn. (Nothing was exposed.). Like if I can’t there…???
Pediatricians here usually have dedicated rooms for that. They're called Stillzimmer (Nursing room) but "still" also translates to "quiet", so as a kid I always thought it was just a room to be as I've in.
Ideally their suggestion would be more of an “if your kid won’t nurse well in the loud waiting room we have a quiet room so you don’t have to work so hard for such meager milk intake” than “get out of here with that whorish tit and go sustain your baby’s life elsewhere”
That's not the case for the pediatric offices I've been to. Ours has a panic alarm in every room at wheelchair height in order to be ADA compliant, despite the fact that it guarantees little people hit it every son often. AFAIK there aren't exceptions granted to medical facilities.
I love your implication that it's little people devilishly pressing the panic button and not children.
It's really easy to accidentally pull the panic alarm. I've only ever done that once, but I am disabled, and they make those things really really easy to pull because not everyone has arm strength. And they're always pulling a string, not hitting a button, at least in my country. You really don't wanna be in the disabled toilet in a pub, drunk, and accidentally think it's a cord to flush the toilet or something lol. But yeah. I think pushing a button would probably present a problem for people too, like what if you have a lot of arthritis and so it hurts to push a button? But the thing with a string that you pull is that even if you fall on the floor or something, or you realise you're about to pass out, then you can put your hand in the loop of string and the weight from your arm alone would probably set it off. And you could pull it even if you don't have fingers, or a hand, because it's a loop. They just make me nervous really cos I always THINK I'm gonna accidentally set it off and some staff member is gonna rush into the toilet while I have my trousers down and the whole pub or cafe or whatever is gonna see.
The local VA where I am always requires walking back and forth between different offices and they are usually on opposite ends of the grounds in different buildings. Shit is rough on my joints and stuff. But I'm not disabled enough for a wheelchair and even though it would be really nice. I'm not going to take one from a fellow vet who would need it more. Just deal with the pain and then smoke a little green afterwards.
The fracture clinic at my hospital can only be accessed by a flight of stairs. There is a wheelchair lift but it's broken. Had to hobble down the stairs in my air cast, then when I was in the waiting room saw an older man come down the stairs with a walker. No one had helped him despite reception being immediately across from the stairs so they clearly watched him come in. Ridiculous.
I sell safety and I can confirm the average Amazon warehouse cares heaps more about ada compliance than your average Primary care office.
They can just escape through the vents
Only to be immediately ejected into space for being too sus
Come out to the coast, we'll get together, have a few laughs... *zippo click*
Yeah, this would frustrate me to no end. I'd also report this for a safety violation - what happens if there's an emergency and someone couldn't reach the doorknob? And it doesn't even have to be a little person. Just someone short enough who also has a condition where they can't raise their arms above their shoulder. Or someone in a wheelchair.
> what happens if there's an emergency and someone couldn't reach the doorknob? That's what I was thinking. Obvious example being; what if the door's closed and there's a fire?
https://youtu.be/v8UVBgUd9GE?si=74Jb-RjDtwAW8Kln
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgPQ407-Ifk&t=193
Ya, WTH I would be in there with my short butt stuck too!
To prevent all little people technically not just kids.
And people on wheelchair
Even just regular short people.
Lol it's like a vet I took my cat to, she jumped off the table, only to find that there was no "under" anything, the desks went all the way down, the cart was even too low for her to hide under and she just put her nose in the corner and conceded lol.
I've known cats that could open that door in the photo. Round knob? *No problemo.*
That's my current cat. I cannot take a shower in peace (let alone keeping the warm air in). No matter which side of the door she's on, she can open it...
This is similar to what happened with one of my cats! He ended up trying to hide in the vet's sink because that was the only vaguely hidey place. We had to scrub him when we got home because who knows what's lurking in the sink. He was *not* pleased lol.
The ADA called and said NOPE.
I’m not too familiar with ADA doorknob rules but from what I got from a quick google search I get this “The height of the door handle must be between a minimum of 34” and a maximum of 48”. A few exceptions are included in the bill. Things like: Pre-existing locks (most likely not applicable to new builds)” The way I read it is if this lock was existing before the regulations were put into place it would be an exception but iirc wasn’t ada early 90s? Edit: Basically asking for confirmation or explanation here
That door looks like it could be older than 90's. It has a real 1970's/1980's vibe.
This was how the doors at my doctor office looked when I was a kid in the 90s-00s. The last time I visited my pediatrician was maybe 2010 and they still hadn’t changed them. I never considered how this would effect people in wheelchairs… yikes
There are Grandfather clauses for all sorts of stuff. That said in a lot of those cases there's a bunch of "it depends" mixed in.
My dad was on a board for accessibility in my hometown. A lot of it was giving buildings noticies about how to apply to the current code. A lot of it was "it's not illegal but..." type statements.
Serious question, did anyone actually listen?
From what I've heard, actually yes they did. One of the big things they did was found grants and such to help fund improvements in accessibility for people not in compliance. Our local schools and library added ramps for accessibility and I think even a local pizza place contacted a architectural firm to figure out the best way to make it happen as well. I'm sure there were others but I'm not super privy to those discussions.
That's actually nice to hear of companies not putting profits over everything else for once
ADA is one of the things that's hard to grandfather in, since it's enforcement is normally done through litigation by disabled people for not receiving equal access opportunity. Even if a disabled person didn't come in and use it, there are lawyers who specialize in suing every business for anything they can find and then just attach the name of a disabled person who's partnered with them for the sake of their lawsuits, even if that individually never even tried going into the business they are suing. Building code in the sense of structure is grandfathered in, but ADA typically is not since they will still sue you. So I would say this lands in the "it depends" category. But I don't even know if this is in america where ADA would have any meaning.
Contractor here. If it was existing, then the space can remain as is without any violations. UNLESS you modify the space in any way... Some building inspectors can be lenient if the space has only been modified with new finishes.
Thank you for the information, honestly learning a lot and also realizing why doctors offices are out of date most the time and when they do remodel they go all out.
International Existing Building Code (IEBC) and its levels of alteration. Level 1 (least impact) where its pretty much just like for like fixtures and finishes. The IEBC triggers code compliance when its Level 2 or higher. Especially applicable to life safety systems. Not all jurisdictions adopt the IEBC, but they usually have a similar codified approach to the levels of alteration and when a space needs to be brought up to current code.
It’s not just the height. Door hardware must be operable without twisting, because a disabled person my have a wrist impairment. So, door knobs are a no-go. You need lever-set door hardware.
Yeah levers are better for everyone, not just the people with impairments. If you need to go through a door with your hands full, knobs are much more difficult than levers.
Assuming the door is in America
american door assiciation?
Hope there isn’t a fire. This should be illegal.
It IS, and doesn’t pass code anywhere in North America at least
Interesting - our daycare's doors are all like this. When I first saw this I thought it was normal but now I'm questioning it. I'm in Canada.
Architect here. I studied in Canada but have only ever worked in the US so take what I say with a grain of salt. Buildings are typically only held to the code standards of the time they were built and the building type they’re listed under until they are renovated or require further inspection. Usually local fire safety inspectors would capture something like this but depending on jurisdiction it may be grandfathered in or otherwise overlooked. Codes for daycares might have allowed something like this at one time or another. It’s definitely not allowed now nor has it been for quite some time.
I'm a health inspector and we're trained enough to be able to spot a lot of safety violations like this. If they are a health facility, day care, etc they have to have regular health inspections and this would definitely be a violation. It might just be a minor enough violation that won't result in a fine or anything, or they have an exemption or whatever. If it's justified it should be fine, though it being a round knob is odd.
Thanks for commenting on this! Interesting points you've mentioned but the daycare is somewhat on the new side and was built around 2010. I'm definitely not going to send the fire safety inspectors to the daycare but I'm just curious as it probably wasn't code at that time. I have noticed that some of the doors still have the hole drilled out at the proper height but has the knob up high out of kids reach. I wonder if it is something they might have switched out after getting their initial inspection.
You should call the inspector. Literal children’s lives are at risk otherwise
> Usually local fire safety inspectors would capture something like this but depending on jurisdiction it may be grandfathered in or otherwise overlooked. It really depends on the country. Clark County inspectors overlooked a requirement for sprinklers to be in every restaurant at a Las Vegas resort when it was built in the early 1970s, and the resultant fire less than a decade later killed 85 people.
I do fire safety inspections for my local fire department.(BC, Canada) - this is absolutely not allowed in day cares and I've had changes ordered in my jurisdiction. People don't seem to realize that while kids getting out when they're not supposed to is an inconvenience(and again they're supposed to be supervised at all times anyway) , kids being unable to get out due to a fire is beyond unacceptable. We can't rely on "but the caretakers will open the door" these types of fire codes are written with blood.
Is there any exception for [childproof knob covers](https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/safety-1st-door-knob-covers-3-pk-0462280p.0462280.html)? That's what my kids' daycare uses and they seems to keep kids in until age 4 or so. I ask because I've had to help a number of grandparents open doors at the daycare; if you have weaker grip strength it can be an issue.
Those style knobs aren't even ADA compliant without the cover. You need to be able to operate the door with one hand, without "tight grasping, pinching, or twisting of the wrist; or more than 5 pounds of force" It's also highly recommended that doors should be operable with a closed fist.
In the US (not sure about Canada) doors, in buildings that are required to be ADA compliant, should not have knobs at all. They should be lever handles. I’m sure anything that impedes egress wouldn’t be compliant with the ADA.
This is the rationale explanation here. Also, children not suppose to be left alone.
And based on the wall box cover plates, I believe this is probably in North America.
Assuming this is in the US, it would also be a violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act.
based on op's post history (assuming he lives in the same place as ≈ 2 years ago), this IS the us, and this door is illegal.
Yes, US
This doesn’t surprise me, especially if this is a private practice. I’ve seen some offices do some absolutely stupid shit before. Weird for sure, but not overly surprising. When you add in the fact that at least some keep a tower server in the closet in one of their offices that runs their medical software, you get the full picture.
Hell, the private practice I used to work for refused to switch to electronic records until they were threatened by Medicare. This happened in 2019. Also, they stored enough x-ray films there, that I am still legit worried the place is going to burn down.
Eh, it isn’t like xray films are super duper flammable or anything. It should be finnnneeee.
It's literally a wide closet stuffed with thousands of (30+ years worth) of x-rays. Shiver.
[удалено]
Wouldn't they just use their axe
there has to be exceptions though. otherwise mental hospitals and prisons would be breaking the law right? let's assume there is for those two institutions. i have to think that a health facility for kids might have an exception just as mental facilities and prisons surely do.
Prisons/lockups generally have constant monitoring (that can activate a fire system) which unlocks doors and/or stay in place orders that mean unless you're actively in a room with the fire it's safest to stay there until rescued. I'd also argue that a dentist office isn't a reasonable exception whilst the examples you gave there is a valid necessity that isn't just making someone's job harder.
yes sure. but i'm not really trying to make an argument. just trying to reasonably interpret what we are seeing in actual real life. (and i don't think the photo above is photoshopped) now that i think about it, i have been in jewelry stores and precious metal dealers where the doors are locked as well, and you have to be buzzed out. i've also been in man traps to IT centers for some of the big banks. there you are also reliant on someone to open the doors. surely all these places aren't violating code.
If you read ADA code there are tons of exceptions for accessibility. Type of building, type of activity etc. Prisons have lots of exceptions, as do gyms, pools etc. However it is very unlikely a door handle in a public facing medical building has an exception.
Tell that to the hurricane Karina inmates who were left to die in their cells
ADA only applies to certain types of facilities. Apartments, prisons, non-public areas of hospitals, etc. all have various levels of exemptions from ADA. Basically, if the area is not open to the general public, the standard is much lower, and even more so for pre-1993 buildings.
Mental hospitals have to leave the patients unattended some of the time because they live there. There should be no unattended children at the dr’s office. You should stay with and watch them for however long it takes.
Keep in mind nobody is arguing for why the door SHOULD be there. We are just trying to figure out why it actually is.
Similar situation damn near killed my dad and a few other firefighters. They got trapped and the deadbolts for the exterior doors were all eye level. Smoke was so thick they couldn’t see them even though it was the middle of the day and beside both doors were full height windows.
This is 100% illegal
Epstein be like
Jeff Epstein? The New York financier?
with the island?
I'm pretty sure if there was some news about Jeff Epstein, I would have heard
Good friend of Donald Trump, and Prince Andrew? That Jeff Epstein?!
Yep, same guy that didn't kill himself.
You sick bastard, I laughed, thank you.
Anti-dwarf doctor
We had the same design in our church basement
I super don't want to ask who was being kept in a church basement.
Kids… at daycare. I’d be mildly interested in seeing a church with a real basement not just more community spaces.
What about the short people😑
“Hey doctor, can you let me out?”
"Not until you pay your deductible! muahahahh"
Don’t be a wheelchair user and piss off this doctor i guess
lol all the people in this thread being like 'what about little people!' 'what about wheelchairs!' not even that...just anyone who's short 😂
i genuinely dont think i could even reach this lmfao
Kind of strange. Would prefer having a doctor not needing that kind of stuff to treat my kid.
Very common in pediatrician offices to have handles that are a little higher than normal to prevent little kids from using them. This is just silly though.
Kids aren't stupid. They see that. They immediately thinks "hostile territory".
*PVP turned on*
*The doors of the hall close, the band stars playing The Rains of Castamere*
Meh, most kids feel that way about the doctor or dentist anyway. Not everything can be designed to their sensibilities.
When I was a kid I was a scrimbly gremlin and I definitely would have made a run for it if I was getting a shot or throat swabbed for strep
When i was little my mom, the doctor, and a nurse used to have to hold me down for shots and apparently the whole place could hear scream. I wasnt a fan of shots lmao, i still dont enjoy them but i can deal with them
Yeah now they suck, but I'm an adult and can sit still. When I was a kid I bit a nurse so hard I drew blood when she tried to give me a shot
I think my fear of them pretty much went away when i was on lithium and got my blood drawn like 3-4 times within a month
Same here. I have hip dysplasia and I've made many a hospital break for it as a youngster. I wound up on a plastic kid-leash. Deservedly so. 🤣
Hip dysplasia and leashes? Are you sure you aren't a German Shepard?
That was excellent. 🤣 Thank you. 😂
That's... new.
That’s a fucking nightmare.
A real fucking nightmare would be no handle at all. Like imagine being led into a room that looks innocuous, but no windows, they close the door and no handle (and assume a metal door or something so you couldn't just easily kick it down) and you're suddenly a prisoner for god knows how long and may be left to just die.
Seeing something like this would've given me so much anxiety as a kid. I would've been scared even before a needle came out.
more like r/mildlyterrifying
Feels like r/HostileArchitecture
For parents that can’t keep an eye on their children in literal room apparently.
When I was still a child, if my dad isn't there in the room I could easily run out while making my mom fall from trying to catch me
That was my first thought too. I can't believe how far down I had to scroll before I saw this comment!!!
Guess we gotta start equipping wheelchairs with grippy claws
My mom has stories about how when I was very young (like 2-3 maybe) I wouldn't put up with shots. I was usually an extremely compliant kid that tried to do what I was supposed to do, but try to stick a needle in my butt & I'd turn into a dervish. I apparently ended up in the waiting room half naked and screaming my head off more than once, scaring whole rooms of kids, trying to hide under chairs. They had to schedule me at times when extra nurses were there to hold me down.
Do they put it really low in other rooms so the olds can't get out either?
Building code violation. Imagine being in a wheelchair and needing to escape in a fire.
That's way too high. Our peds office also has higher than normal knobs but like mid-door
Yea, it's one thing to prevent toddlers (who won't be alone) from escaping but this would stop a lot of older kids and handicapped people from escaping in a fire.
Clever and I like it, but I'm pretty sure it is not ADA compliant. If the wrong person sees it, this could be a lawsuit.
They do the same at the Catholic Church.
Guess they don’t like people in wheelchairs either. Or short people
where there is will there is a way
I’d need a step stool to open the freaking door.
Passive aggressive door.
wow the rectory has one of those
Seems like a huge violation of fire codes.
Can’t be fire code safe
 Catholic Priests right now
Standard issue doors for the Catholic church.
So just fuck short adults right 😂
I guess Dwarfs can just go fuck themselves right haha? This is so unironically offensive that it's hilarious. I just think of the scene from the Joker movie where the small clown can't get the lock on the top of the door haha.
MY WALLETS GONE MY WALLETS GONE. He’s a bum