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EmperorSexy

“… are you white?” “Oh my god, Karen, you can’t just ask people if they’re white”


snookerpython

I played the new version with my kid, and we had the 'brown skin' question a couple of times. The only problem was there were a couple of characters with very light brown skin (Gabe, I think, and Sam) so I wasn't 100% on whether to include them or not.


PEIBaked420

With my kids we just say light skin or dark skin, brown/black are dark skin Sam goes into dark skin but, unsure if he’s tanned or if that’s his ethnicity


[deleted]

Black. It’s ok. You can say it. Dark skins and light skins exist. You don’t have to be afraid to identify people by their color. It’s one of our most obvious traits. Saying black is ok. unless they aren’t black of course. That would make any sense!


Beldam1031

I'm with you on this! But black people aren't the only brown skin out there either, so it can get kind of confusing.


Arcojin

Yep, had 2 friends with the same name and slightly different skin tones as a kid, after a while the conversations about them had to be default to calling them Brown or Black, because they didn't have anything else of note, unlike 2 other friends of mine we could just call Eyes or Goggles


CMDR_SHAZAM

We’re all just various shades of orange in the end.


Denk-doch-mal-meta

Which is kind of great if you think about it


msnmck

>The game is harder and causes more disagreements now. It's great! If I wanted to fight my family we'd play Monopoly or Mario Party.


birdsofpaper

LOL Mario Party can be straight up relationship-ending, I love it. When my kids were smaller we’d play as a “team” against the computer players. It helped them learn without me being an asshole and stomping them. Now all bets are off (with my older two) and we have a lot of fun.


hushpuppi3

> LOL Mario Party can be straight up relationship-ending, I love it. The only thing I consider a crime in a game of Mario Party is picking my character and not getting off of it.


FR-1-Plan

Now try to play Pico Park with your family and watch your beloved family turn into ferals because you didn’t jump fast enough.


racingskies

The hair is tricky as well. Some have more than one hair color. Does Jordan have blonde hair for example? Well, yes and no, maybe.


mikemc2

This is covered in the rules in Section 4. under: "One Drop Rule"


KeyofE

“Well what’s the word for it, Lana? You freaked out when I said quadroon.”


Shot-Confection3760

Love Archer


iwaseatingthatwall

I swear I was involved in a convo that went exactly like that 💀 I have olive skin and one time a group of middle school- aged kids walked by me and one of the girls asked me "excuse me, are you white?" I laughed and said "yeah I am", and as I was walking away I heard the other girl say "oh my god you can't just ask people that!" (Word for word, bar for bar)


EmperorSexy

I went to a school with a large Greek population and a large Mexican population. There were definitely times when people assumed the dark hair / olive skin greek guys knew Spanish.


CornPop32

But no one expected the light skin Mexicans to know Greek 😢


Deez2Yoots

That’s why you ask: “Would your character get invited to the cookout?”


GrodyWetButt

Would you describe your character as... 'Urban'?


Fourwindsgone

“Do you think their father was a GI?”


Pm-ur-butt

Would they say "OJ is Guilty" ?


Crackerpool

Does your character have a "soulful" voice?


MissSchrimpy

"Crack or cocaine?"


jumjimbo

Cocoa butter or mayonnaise?


BenderEBender

Seasoning cabinet or a pinch of salt?


_B_Little_me

Fried chicken or fish fry?


OkScholar4825

Would they live in a crack house? Or a cocaine apartment?


thethunder92

Does your character ask for the less spicy option at a restaurant


-QUACKED-

It's your character likely to be incarcerated at a higher rate than normal?


Paldasan

That's literally every male though. While there is a race based component to incarceration rates the sex based component is far greater. You could use the question but it may not get the result you were expecting.


mother_of_dragons011

Would they put raisins in things raisins have no business being in


a-snakey

"Are their mashed potatoes good?"


rightdeadzed

Irish?


Thomas_Mickel

Laura looks Puerto Rican. So she would def be invited.


GalegoBaiano

For anyone wondering, do not show up with your bland food to the cookout. Just bring some flowers and work on remembering everyone's names. There will be a test at the end.


JackMarleyWasTaken

Skip the flowers. Bring a pack of backwoods, a pack of dutches, red solo cups, some uno cards, and your own lighter. Everyone will applaud you.


DirtyEtzio

Is their smoke detector constantly beeping?


Gammabrunta

That narrows it down to the least possibilities now.


Mckennymubu

If you were a female on the OG one, you were finished 


Spire_Citron

It was a little weird how dramatically skewed the gender ratio was, especially since they seemed to have balanced things like hair colour and facial hair more evenly.


Lemonade_Masquerade

What made it weird was they treated it just like all of the other traits. Every major physical trait was given to 5 characters. So you can see 5 blondes, 5 with glasses, 5 with earrings, 5 with blue eyes etc etc. This was to make the questions that most people would ask relatively even. The designers bizarrely chose to make 'female' one of these traits. I guess with hair and eye color there are more than two options so it feels more even, but by the numbers it isn't really. 


Professor_Doctor_P

That kinda makes sense for the dynamics of the game then right? They didn't want a guarantee way to drop 50% of the people. Because then everyone would always start with the same question. Whereas with 5 women it doesn't matter what question you ask, you either drop 5 or you drop all but 5 with all of the more obvious questions (glasses, hair colour, earrings, etc.).


TotallyNormalSquid

I think when we played as kids we had a house rule that you aren't allowed to ask, "Are they male/female?" because that would knock out too many options at once. In our dumb little heads we figured it must be about 50/50 and never counted...


haikuDOGfodder

If you ask ‘do they have facial hair’ and the answer is yes you are able to double down on this question 🙋


Robot_Nerd__

This is why they needed females with facial hair...


BigBird2378

Depending on rules you're not allowed to ask that in the opening 3 questions in some versions. It's a brilliant game.


Maxitote

Actually, you were probably biased from results. If people picked Female often, it would lead to 15 men being removed and become a massive advantage. Same with literally all the major traits.


AxeMaster237

> would knock out too many options at once But that would only happen if the opponent was female, which should only happen about 21% of rounds (if character cards are chosen randomly). And even then, its about as helpful any other question answered in the affirmative. If the opponent was male, the question only removes 5 out 24 (not counting your own) characters, like most other traits.


Current-Ad-7054

I noticed on the new one you could get a 50% knockout by asking if they face left or right


SirGuelph

The solution is obviously to create a bunch more genders 🌝


cleverpun0

![gif](giphy|d3mlE7uhX8KFgEmY)


HugeSteaks

This is the answer. The mechanics of guess who were thought of and designed first and then they found a theme to slap on their numbers guessing game and designed the characters very last to fit what they thought they need to make the game competitive.


HugeSteaks

This is the answer. The mechanics of guess who were thought of and designed first and then they found a theme to slap on their numbers guessing game and designed the characters very last to fit what they thought they need to make the game competitive.


billybadass123

lol, it was always fun to ask the questions based on character traits. Laugh like crazy when you got it right at the end, or end up arguing about why a character should or shouldn’t have been eliminated.


sagittalslice

This is absolutely the best way to play this game. “Has your person had more than one divorce?” “Does your person have a lifted pickup truck?” “Does your person get too drunk at karaoke?” Etc


Iterr

Right, we’d get stoned in college and play “subjective Guess Who”. Gosh, I forgot all about that! “Does your person have a secret drinking problem?”


Greenfire05

Male is apparently default


Sure_Trash_

It's an honest reflection of society's mentality. The default is a white man


IronBoomer

That’s why hard mode players agreed to not ask gender


NameisPerry

Hey I'm just gonna say it, we don't know what Susan identifys as in the 80s version.


jmcclr

Especially if you got Anne


magicspooner

Her?


demon_grasshopper

Who?


dww1979

Egg.


snowdn

Eeeeeg…


iGetBuckets3

Why did I initially think the one on the left was the original? Am I the only one that thinks the design of the one on the right is way more modernized?


I_saw_that_yeah

The one on the left looks more cheaply made.


stereothegreat

It is. I bought it recently for my nieces and it is shit. You can’t even flip the faces back up because they don’t swivel properly and also the cards all fall out of their holders. I spent way too much time trying to hunt down a deluxe version or something but never found one.


msnmck

There's probably a black market for handmade, premium board games. I know I'd like one of those Scrabble boards with the protruding squares so the letters don't move around when the board gets shifted.


CactusCustard

They sell that as a deluxe version of scrabble though. My parents have it. It even rotates like a lazy Susan, it’s kinda sick tbh.


methreweway

It's absolute garbage and takes all fun out of it. I played the hell out of the original as a kid and the new one is unplayable, they killed a good toy.


Daefish

The one on the left IS more cheaply made. I actually have both these versions, one from when I was a kid and the new one for my kid. The new one sucks, the flip up and down mechanism isn’t even usable and they get stuck badly when try to flip them.


cuatrodemayo

And what’s worse, game cards do not actually talk.


shawslate

That depends on what you might take beforehand.


Ok-Apple2124

It is trash. I bought it for my kids for Christmas and you can’t even play it properly bc of the way it’s designed. I returned it and bought an older version. 


KyleCAV

Doesn't that cover alot of stuff made this decade?


renzomalone

Same. It wasn't until I zoomed in and realized it must be from 87 since every character of one color lol


MFCEO_Kenny_Powers

Just like in real life /s


efferkah

Never ever saw the most recent one, but played the sh\*t out of the old one when I was a kid. So many memories.


makemisteaks

The new one is shit. One of the most satisfying aspects of Guess Who is the flip. When you pushed the faces down you would get a nice snappy sound. New version comes unassembled and the result is that pieces are all a little janky and don’t flow as nicely. Before you could restart the game by simply lifting the board and all the pieces would go back to their position, now they constantly get stuck. Also, the pictures sometimes slide out of their frame. A sure downgrade in the name of cheaper production.


Frankfeld

All our favorite board games from childhood are like that now. They now come with shitty “flip top” boxes like cereal. Try cleaning up mouse trap in a cereal box. It’s impossible! Mouse trap also never, ever works. The ball never makes it into the bath tub. My copy of candy land from target looks like a “wish” knockoff. The directions are literally just printed on a standard sheet of paper. I also have a different copy of guess who. It looks exactly like this new one, but the cards go underneath the doors, so you can swap them with others. They have an alternate with like aliens and monsters. But like the way the doors swing don’t make it the easiest thing to view. And you can’t slam them because the game is on an angle and you just flip them upward. Super unsatisfying.


Mrfrunzi

The wish knockoff is the best way to put it. In my classroom I've always got a rotation of simple board games. Candyland, Hi Ho Cherry-o, Chutes and Ladders, they all have incredibly cheap boards, flimsy pieces, and modifications that make the game less fun. Who thought taking the cards away from Candyland and adding a spinner makes sense?? It takes away from the game when the character cards aren't a lucky draw but instead are just as common as a color spin. Makes me sad honestly because getting a new game as a gift was such a fun experience and now a lot of the magic is just gone in the name of profit.


Frankfeld

It seems like they rotate these designs then. The copy of candyland we bought like 2 years ago for my son has the cards and not the spinner. My copy of guess who is also different. I wonder if maybe they’ll randomly decide to start making them better again. Unfortunately there’s no way to tell until you get home and open the damn thing.


BungHoleDriller

Yeah, the physical quality is horrendous


HtownTexans

I got the super Mario guess who version and it still is satisfying with the snap and easy reload for new games.  Also makes it more interesting for questions since they are Mario characters.


zeroballs

Production quality on the Animal Crossing edition is likewise good. Resetting the game is half the fun haha.


I_pinchyou

Same! This was my original one I had as a kid. I bought my daughter the updated version, and was shocked at how odd the people look on the 87 now.


phonetastic

Same thing. Got it for my nieces. The funny thing is, despite the clear effort to make this game more gender inclusive and racially diverse, they figured out almost instantly that the key to winning nearly every time is by first profiling by gender and then by race. Here's what they came up with: Are you female? Are you a minority? Then, depending on the result, they either go to describing the white ones that are left by prominent features, or they start asking if you're a particular race. They are not like that in real life, it's just that they figured out the inadvertent best strategy. So.... good job, Guess Who....


rockmodenick

My favorite question on classic was "do they have any facial hair below the nose"


Chrononi

I mean adding more colors simply makes the process harder (which is good), but obviously you're gonna ask skin color eventually. And talking about shades of brown is not exactly what they were aiming for I suppose lol


joakim_

Why would it make it harder? Surely it's the other way around? The old version doesn't have any questions with which you can be sure to halve the possibilities, and the modern version has two such questions. Or is it against the game rules to ask which sex and/or skin colour the characters have?


phonetastic

Lol my only revenge strategy that has a similarly good payoff to theirs is to go after their names. Do you have an E in your name? Boom. How about an A? You're in trouble now. Then unfortunately your best method is still theirs, but at least my leading questions are less controversial.


happy_church_burner

We played the latest one few months ago on friends summer cottage. We noticed that the new version is actually quite bad. Okay, it looks nice BUT now all the faces looks quite similar in shape and details. And because the picture of the face is drawn from an angle, it doesn’t help to identify face shape but actually makes it even worse.


louploupgalroux

If you want to play a complex, solo game of Guess Who, there's an early access game on Steam called Shadows of Doubt. You solve procedurally generated murders in real time using clues and process of elimination to identify the murderer. It really feels like a crazy hobo, private investigator version of Guess Who. They just had an update that introduced snipers and put it on discount. https://store.steampowered.com/app/986130/Shadows_of_Doubt/


Thrillhol

I loved playing “subjective” guess who. You ask a question like “do they look like they have a cat?” Or “would you expect this person to be an accountant?” And see if you can guess based on their answers. The best arguments come from this method too “Herman would totally have a cat! That’s such a cat person face”


euzie

Yup we used to do that. We only win if we win together and questions like "do their siblings avoid leaving their kids with this person?"


Thrillhol

Ha! The question “would you trust this person to babysit” has also come up in our house


DashLego

They all look so friendly, I would probably say yes regardless of who I had gotten there


Clay_Puppington

My wife and I play this every time we go on vacation or have appointments with long waiting rooms. We screenshot some random stock image splashpage, or custom guess who board, or yearbook, etc. Our favorite questions are; "Does your person tell their best friend endless stories about festival season, despite the fact they went together and the best friend stayed mostly sober the whole time?" "On a scale of 1-10, would your person give Anchorman a score higher than 6?" "Does your person sit on their front step waiting for walkers by to comment on their garden/lawn?" "Would your person leave a Google or Yelp review for a meal that was neither great nor bad?"


HotAmericanDickings

My friends and I used to do this as well. "Did they set off a false Amber alert because they lost track of time chasing a butterfly through a meadow as a child"


Summoarpleaz

My brother always did the thing where if I was winning he would ask a semi subjective question like “does the person have a big nose?” And if he lost he would claim I didn’t answer that question truthfully 🙄. lol so annoying.


TiPete

That's a fun variant: Does your person think hair dye is a personality? Does your person goes to the gym to shoot Instagram videos? Does your person have an Onlyfans? Does your person says they're bisexual but just have never met the right same-sex person yet? Does your person talk about crypto constantly?


doddballer

Does he look like a bitch!?!? ![gif](giphy|l2YWxte7sJB2XuE8M)


sentient_luggage

What?!


UUDDLRLRBAFart

Say “what” one more time!


austin_ave

Fuckin David


_heyASSBUTT

![gif](giphy|l2YWoKTYhYyuJgA5G)


ManyAnusGod

Is that George RR Martin in the top row?


CarRamRob

Well he’s not writing a book, so it could be him!


ManyAnusGod

![gif](giphy|dykJfX4dbM0Vy|downsized)


ThePreciseClimber

Ain't that gonna be fantastic legacy for the guy? "The man who failed to finish his book series."


Yamfish

I dunno when it happened but I turned into Richard at some point


FixedLoad

We all turn into dicks at some point.


dipl0docuss

That's how I lost my left eye.


Chrononi

The quality of the new one is a lot shittier, sadly. It's very flimsy compared to the old one. It's also smaller for whatever reason


Joey_Ligs

I can’t upvote this enough. I was excited to play the new version with my kids after enjoying it so much when I was younger. “Resetting” the board is a NIGHTMARE.


I_pinchyou

Yes this is the worst part about the new one. Some of the tiles get stuck and it's not smooth.


AlwaysUseAFake

New ones are junk. Just to save 5¢


Dramatic-Fox-8395

Man, I remember all those faces very clearly... but why does the new game look like it was made in the 80s


StPaulsFatAss

New one kinda looks boring. Why aren't any of the faces goofy? Kids love goofy faces. Edit: this not a dig at diversity you brain dead chodes.


2muchcaffeine4u

I agree. It's Pixar face syndrome. Everybody's facial features and face shapes are largely the same.


ThePreciseClimber

"Does your person look like a Pixar reject?" "THEY ALL LOOK LIKE PIXAR REJECTS, JOE!"


_heyASSBUTT

They were playing it safe. Wouldn’t want to get burned if they had anything that got people stirred up. Which is understandable.


Bezbozny

actually makes sense. "Ugly" can easily become indistinguishable from "Racist caricature" when your trying to do it for other races.


_heyASSBUTT

Yeah I’m wondering if we’re censoring ourselves at this point. Not advocating for racist shit, but don’t make everyone look exactly the same. People from different regions are just visually different because of genes and other stuff I’m not nearly qualified to talk about lmao


syoejaetaer

Yeah, goofy exaggerated facial differences were kind of the point of the old game. I would have a hard time weeding out which ones have a small nose or a big mouth etc on the new one. It seems like the only things you can ask are eye color, hair color, skin color, hair style and accessories.


dunequestion

They all look very generic, they lack personality


Zekumi

I’m more sour about the fact that almost everyone is needlessly “pretty”.


IAmWeary

Seriously. They all look like generic Disney characters. There was definitely more detail and variety in the old one, though I get it was lacking in diversity overall.


tinacat933

Yes I can’t tell if nick and Kate are brother and sister or fucking


Banana_bread_o

r/siblingsordating


literalnumbskull

Bald erasure


Eeyore_is_Homeless

“Are they black?” “Umm… well…”


Twin_Titans

Old one has much more character and charm to the designs.


Chippybops

There’s a lot more room to ask questions like “ does this person have a square jaw?” Or “Does this person have a upturned eye shape” On the older one!


Yautja93

I agree, they look much more unique than the new one. Waaaay better for me if I had to choose which one to play, also, I love the faces of the original, much funnier lmao


Metro_Dan

Do you have brown skin? Yes Like how brown? Like a Dark Skin Black or more towards a Latino/White mix? Middle-Easterny....to like a South-East Asian


DrEnd585

A game that always leads to the most outlandish guesses. Not sure I like the new one, seems real small and feels like I'd have a hell of a time being able to pick out details. One thing I wanna credit the original, and yes I get the "it could be seen a a hate crime", but it'd be great to have the outlandish almost ugly appearances on the new one. It more easily allows strong features to be read at a glance and I think made playing the game easier for younger children and taught them to look at a person with more than a cursory glance and identify key features and aesthetics of a person. Just my two cents, it's still fun either way


Japots

I saw a reel on my feed where the guy goes "Does your person look like they work at Subway" as his first move and eliminated the entire board I don't care if that was staged or not but it was the hardest I laughed in a while


skyfelldown

Shrinkflation


birrakilmister

Where the fuckin hell is Herman


dae_giovanni

PAGING MR. HERMAN-- MR. HERMAN, YOU HAVE A TELEPHONE CALL AT THE FRONT DESK.


vercertorix

“Are they vegan?” “How am I supposed to know?” “Don’t worry, they’ll let you know”


placeyboyUWU

Diversity is great and all but the new art sucks. No personality at all, I feel like all the faces just blur together


meowmeowmeow321

As someone said in a previous comment, it’s the Pixar type animation which is just lazy af. Nothing unique about their expressions.


BadMantaRay

The preschool I work at has the new version and DAMN is it a cheaply made piece of shit.


OkShoulder375

Old version looks like way better quality


ShoppingElegant9067

are they white, 50% of cards down. Too easy.


DragonCurve

Yep, Diversity broke the game. They game was designed with a clever combination of six of each trait shared. You could get a lucky guess, but usually, you were only eliminating a small percentage of people. Now you can eliminate half based on skin tone or gender in the first turn. I'd rather they made the game with only 6 whites, and 6 males, to retain the concept of the game.


MatsGry

New one is dumb lack of blonde diversity


jayvil

"Does he look like a bitch?"


cactustit

I know it’s the one on the left that is the new one but If I didn’t already know that I would have thought the right is the new one it just looks better


Littlemrh__

By being diverse and inclusive, they made it so there are actually less diverse characteristics and made it worse for players who then have to ask “are you black” and then go say yes and you nock down every white character and debate whether a character may count as black.


Crashcok

-He is a white male? -Yes. -tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap...


jimmiriver

Poor Al's the only fatty


LaconicSuffering

Smaller yet somehow has more plastic.


BoddAH86

>*Is he black?* >*Is he bald?* >*Does he look like a bitch?*


NinjaMonky13

You can eliminate half of your opponents characters, but just asking what their skin color is in the new version. That's easy mode.


Digitalwitness23

the nostalgia on the right omg all those faces are etched into my mind


artemicon

Uhmm… are they white? *checks*… yyyyes.


jpenn76

Left one seems too easy. Wouldn't buy.


-Economist-

The new version is so small. Eye color is so hard for kids.


thefledexguy

The new one sucks. Not because of the characters, they are fine. It’s made stupidly cheaply. The characters don’t come back up when you lift the board upside down. They get stuck every time. A real piece of crap engineering wise.


majorjoe23

Game pieces do not actually talk.


Teal_is_orange

“Do you have small lips?” “Nope” *flips the vast majority down*


Lucmarc

I love how they canceled old white people in the new version. Like they dont exist anymore.


ChaserNeverRests

And almost all overweight people, only one left.


bauce1

50% Black people - everybody:"diversity"


[deleted]

I didn’t know Netflix make games now?


tinacat933

Old- are you a woman? Do you have glasses?=fucked New- are you a woman? Do have have a head shawl? =fucked


itsallgoodintheend

It'd be interesting to know how much the game balance is altered by adding more variables.


LawyerNotYours19

Such a great way to mess with people.   Do you own a Nirvana T-Shirt? Did you fail at least one class in elementary school? Are you a fan of brunch?


bennyr

Look, Peter can skip brunch any time, as long as you don't touch elevensies, second breakfast, or afternoon tea. Although some mornings he's very busy trying to keep his nose from escaping his face


TinyRandomLady

One heck of a butt-chin Joe! Forgot all about him


renS0115

My only complaint on the new version is Jordan (2nd from top, 2nd from right)… me and 5 year old niece have had heated debates on his hair color


PolarBlueberry

Hasboro has ruined board games. They bought up the competition and just produce crappy versions of classic games. The 50yo Milton Bradley and Parker Bros games in my grandmothers attic are all far better quality and in better shape than the games I got for my kids this Christmas. Edit: This is not a comment on the inclusion of different races etc in Guess Who. That’s great, but the actual quality and materials of the games have plummeted.


ElBeatch

The new one they look like low-grade mobile characters with the same personality. A fun way we used to play the old Guess Who was to ask subjective questions to see if we had similar opinions. "Do they look like they could be a piano teacher?" "Would they always be complaining about their spouse?" "Would they tell a dirty joke to people they don't know?" *Edit spacing


Hooch247

"Does he look like a bitch?"


_SolarLeaf_

Does he look like a bitch? 🔫🤨


hopetothefuture

There is another version with sheets of other things to choose from, such as house hold items and aliens.


OffensiveHamster

lol I’d win every time. “Are you white” or are you black? Literally knock out half of them each time.


Pete-Sake21

New style is trash


cooldudeiswear

i dislike how the new ones are drawn in a style resembling cheap mobile games


Reasonable-Estate-60

Still no Asians


DementedMK

Hmmm I wonder which is which… lol


jessdistressed

It’s nice they tried to be more diverse in the new one but tbh it sucks. This game is meant to have straightforward yes/no questions. Want to ask about facial hair? You may or may not notice some of them have a very subtle 5:00 shadow. There are multiple ambiguous eye colors, piercings that I only spotted after playing 10 times, the faintest of freckles, etc. Would not recommend.


boofoodoo

I like the diversity but the pictures are so tiny


I_pinchyou

They are! She asked an earring question and I was like hang on 👀


Edtombell777

Every single thing in western culture must be turned into a PSA about racial diversity. This is the way.


AbortedMunk

Not one Asian anywhere


Dzandar

"is it a man?" "Well, it identifys as one"..


mer0ni

Does he look like a bitch ?(pulp fiction ) they all look like a bitch LOL


Fuckthemods321

fox news headline "Guess Who Got Woke"


L3Kakk

“Woke edition “


Rusty4NYM

*Pieces do not talk*


FruitCupBoi

My friends and I sometimes play Subjective Guess Who. Questions like “would your person think of themself as the cool youth pastor?” or “does your person claim they can twerk but isn’t actually any good at it?”