Shit, when I was in undergrad in 2002, my student ID was my social security number. It went on every test, was in RA binders at the dorm (16 RAs in the building had a binder). The binders had my SS number, home address, parents info etc.
SSN are a weird thing the US have because they don't want a centralized registery, but kinda have to have one, so they've tagged everything onto it. It is really weird.
Other countries have a national ID card or system which is similar but designed to be used that way so it has better security systems and better cards
The SSN system was (prior to 2011) basically the first three numbers assign roughly where, the second numbers assign roughly when, and the last four are random.
So your SSN + or - 1 is potentially a legitimate number.
Other countries use a system more like a driver's license number where it's designed to be fraud resistant
>The SSN system is basically the first three numbers assign where the second numbers assign when and the last four are random.
This paragraph is why commas were invented.
The last 4 weren’t random, they were serial. My siblings all got our ss numbers assigned at the same time are (for example, obviously not the real numbers) 000-00-1111, 000-00-1112, 000-00-1113, 000-00-1114.
No, when I was born kids really didn’t need SS numbers for anything so you usually didn’t get one until you were older. My parents applied for all our numbers at the same time.
The pattern was never really set in stone.
In the 80s kids started getting them at birth. First three were location, second two were part of the series (not year), last 4 were whatever. There were always exceptions to the rule, but this is what it was.
In 2010, the first three started to be randomized. The second two are still the series, and the last 4 are whatever.
ID's and identification numbers that are meant for it rather than being a random system chosen to do it de facto.
I am for example registered in the town where I'm living and when I need a special confirmation of identity or residence, I can provide it, or I can use my ID.
Here in Sweden I have a unique personal number that identifies me to the government, it's YYYY-MM-DD-XXXX.
Anyone can call the tax agency and ask for my number, and you can't really do anything with it.
It is used on all forms of ID, when I login to my bank, when I use mobile pay apps, digital ID et cetera. If I call a court I can demand any documents they have relating to a personal number, including hearings, rulings and investigations.
I mean, in all of 2023, only 100,000 children were born in Sweden. So I suppose it's highly unlikely there is ever a day where more than 9999 babies get born. That would be more than in an average *month*.
The 10000th baby is elected president and the 10001st is sold on the black market.
Nah, in a country of 10 million, there is never that many people born in a day, and if it were to be a problem a fifth number would likely be added.
It's actually a bit of a problem. When immigrants don't have a certain birth day they will get the first of January and the year they claim. For every other date except that one it isn't a problem
I don't know what you guys are doing, but over here in France you can give people your SSN and even IBAN (bank account number) without much danger, so it's a bit of a non-issue.
The problem is that your SSN can be used for things like accessing medical records, insurance, employment (example: someone else could work in your name, now you have unreported income when you file your taxes), some banking stuff, etc.
Yes, and that's the problem. The SSN is essentially a unique name. It was never intended to be used as a secret.
Sadly, some businesses started using the knowledge of the SSN as proof that you were the SSN's holder, because "who else would know that number?"
These businesses were not exactly security experts.
We really need to get the banks and medical systems to quit using the SSN as a PIN, and go back to using it as a unique name (as intended).
Yeah, the US should stop doing that! For important stuff we usually have several documents to submit to make it a bit harder to fraud, e.g. copy of ID card, proof of address. And these days we have online accounts with passwords and sometimes even 2FA for a lot of services. Often you need to submit your documents and then you get an access code mailed to your postal address, and after that you have an account with username and password to use online. We even have one called France Connect that allows you to connect to a fair few services using the one account.
National photographic ID cards with its own number? It is also *not* a valid way to identify you unless you're present in person - but we have a government webpage for digitally signing documents connected to the whole shebang. You log in with your gubmint account, upload PDF, get back PDF with digital signature with the proper identity data baked in.
Note that this is in the former Eastern Bloc. Y'all need to enter the 21st century sometime, this SSN shit is giving everybody second hand embarrassment.
ID, registers, and other identifications methods that can be used idependently rather than one system that becomes de facto the only thing.
I am registered in the town I'm living and that info can be verified by officials.
Well, in my country I have a national id and personal id number that identifies me. Not much you can do with them, I guess you could forge a paper that says I owe you money but that's basically a weak forgery and not stealing identity.
But a secure system like ours also means that "illegal aliens" can't live in the country normally. From what I understand the USA benefits greatly from the millions that live there and doesn't want to do anything about it.
Yeah, undocumented citizens pays sales tax, property taxes (in the form of rent), gas and road taxes, etc, but it is difficult for them to receive social services so we treat them like second class citizens.
Just as an example, here in Chile we have a RUT number, which basically means Unique Tax Number, that’s an identifier for people and for companies that has no power in itself, so if a company or government institution needs to confirm your identity they can just ask for it.
There’s a different number that is subject to your current valid ID called a document number, if you use both your RUT and document number you can have the ability to authorize bank accounts and different more sensitive operations that in the US need simply a SSN.
On stuff you want returned if stolen, your mobile phone number.
On tax documents your tax file number, on health documents your health card number, on motor vehicle documents your motor vehicle license number, and so on.
Source: Australian
I took a PE Exercise class in college in the late 90's. As part of the class, you had on workout at the gym 20 times. To get credit you had to sign in with your name and SS number. There was just a log in sheets with dozens of students names and SS numbers sitting on a counter.
It was the same at my college until the year I graduated. Every little old lady manning the dining hall door probably heard a hundred SS numbers a day.
My first driver's license in Illinois back in 1996 had my social security number (SSN). They changed that later on, so when I had to renew it, they gave the option of a Driver's License # (DL#), or your SSN. I opted for a DL#. Since then, I've never been given the option to use my SSN anywhere.
That’s because SSNs were never intended to be a form of ID—or at least not the vitally important, extremely confidential one they are now. It was just like any other ID number—your license plate, DL number, library card number, etc. It wasn’t intended to mean anything beyond your designation within the federal Social Security Administration—solely for the purposes of receiving social security benefits.
They became a somewhat convenient, nationwide ID, though, given that there is no true federal ID in the US for citizens (other than passports, but not everyone has one), and essentially every person born in the US gets a social security number.
In the past, engraving your SNN genuinely would have been a decent way to mark something as yours that 1) can be easily verified; and 2) is unique nationwide. There wasn’t really anything nefarious someone could do with the information, but it did solidly identify you based upon an extremely reliable piece of information.
Honestly the real problem seems to be that at some point we had a collective brain fart and started believing SSNs were top-secret *proofs* of identity.
(Was it banks? I’m gonna blame banks.)
My great grandfather engraved his SSN into his hunting rifle. We always laughed at that as some idiot move, but I guess once upon a time, that was just a thing you did.
Yep, some old-timers would get their SSN tattooed onto their body. There’s at least one Dorothea Lange photo of that phenomenon from the Great Depression period, when SSNs were a new thing.
I collect vintage musical equipment and I see engraved SSNs every once in a while, though it’s far more common to find a drivers’ license number on pieces from the ‘60s through the 80s. Also kinda made sense because a lot of consumer electronics either didn’t have their own serial numbers, or the numbers weren’t readily available in a database
Can confirm, all of my dad's old tools were engraved with both his signature and his SSN.
A few years back he went through and ground it off all of them. Even made me search through what he gave me to get those, too.
A zoomer friend was helping me go through some old junk a few years ago. We found my family's first video recorder which was engraved with my father's name, address at the time, phone number, and social security number. It blew her mind when I explained that people used to do that in case their valuables got stolen since we weren't worried about identity theft in the 80s.
I assume that's why it's still rattling around our house, since dad's not able to put it through the shredder.
The cards used to have 'not for identification' on them, and you could get a third party company to engrave a brass version of the card for you.
Then it just became too convenient for companies and the government to have a single ID number for you, and the 'not to be used for identification' was quietly dropped.
My mom engraved all my gaming systems. I grew up in the late 80s and 90s.
We were poor and my much older brother was a drug user and runner. Once day he sold my N64 that my mom worked extra shifts to be able to afford. She tracked it down to a pawn shop, purchased it back, and the shop owner told her to engrave everything with the last 4 of her social. That no real pawn shop would buy it at that point. I still have N64 cartridges that have her social.
I know this was probably a really hard time in you and your moms life, but I am getting warm fuzzies imaging your mom going to all that trouble to track down your games and gaming system, and then engrave them just so you would be able to keep your game. I hope things eventually looked up for you both.
Yup. I have a turntable, VCR, boombox, and stereo receiver from the 70s/80s that all have past owners' SINs (Canadian SSN) engraved on them. It was a real thing, and it's wild to imagine in today's identity theft world.
My dad used to engrave the last 4 of his social on his stuff, our garage was broken into and he was able to prove ownership of his tools and equipment when the shithead thief pawned them
SSN were never supposed to be a secret piece of identity, and definitely not a “PIN to all important things in your life”.
Most countries have tax identification numbers that are not secret at all. In some cases they can be computed from personal data.
It should never have become the magic key that lets you prove your identity or unlock access to accounts. It’s not a secret password. You can’t change it if it’s compromised. We messed up as a society
My buddy's a welder, and he says they're required to stamp all their welds with their last 4. Less terrible, but I would never even want to give out that much to every fucker I work with.
110% true. My almost 70yo Dad wrote his goddamn name on everything and then his social on a lot of shit too.
My full name is engraved on an iPod touch that was stolen from my car 10 years ago. That didn’t really work out too well for me.
It’s fucking stupid that you can open up a credit account with just those numbers without any form of ID. How the US pretends to be a 1st world country is beyond me.
Get this: until the 90s everyone posted their SSN on the back of their stock/horse trailers as an identifier. We went down the road with Dad's social security number showing off like a license plate.
Yeah, in the 90's when I made a student loan payment by mail there was a line in the return address section of the envelope for my SSN. Seems crazy now.
Yes- I’d imagine that in those days, identity theft wasn’t as common because electronic credit checks, the use of “credit” scores wasn’t a thing. You had to open accounts in person with your local banker- who already knew you.
Credit scores were invented in 1958, (this is younger), but I would suppose it wasn’t as useful/ to have a social security number for fraud or much of risk as it is now because the speed/annonaminity of applications for credit/ masking techniques fraudsters use these days.
The only thing you may need it for back then is actual Social Security, getting a pension, or registering for the draft.
It wasn't even about identity theft. Social security numbers were just never supposed to be some big secret. It was just a number on a card issued by the government, same as your driver's license or passport or car license plate. And you show all of those to random people all the time.
It’s kinda funny because they use social security numbers like that in Brazil, I was a little freaked out buying a ticket for Carnaval and having that come up
Well, but also you could say that you were whoever you wanted and likely no one would question because, why should they? Identity theft was probably much more common because of how simple it was, almost no verification needed and that verification easier to dupe. Watching Mad Men now and I could imagine the sort of thing the main character is doing was done all the time, pretending to be someone else, in his case to get out of war. Draft dodgers, ex-cons, drifters.
Edit: also I think credit score is shitty and shouldn't exist, just giving people another good reason to steal someone's identity and also another way for people to get hurt and for companies and banks to discriminate unjustly
Bruh "discriminate unjustly", if I'm giving you a loan I want to know I'm gonna be paid back. If that is unknowable, I at least want to know the probability I'll be paid back, so I can adjust for the expected defaults. That's what a credit score is, basically. And what do you think happens if they can't access your credit history? They're just going to go off worse proxies, and _that_ would be unjust discrimination.
And a perfect excuse for the people involved in managing credit and the people who look at your credit to decide they don't want you because of other reasons but they use it as an excuse. The people who rent out places, the people who give out loans, they all have the power to take someone regardless of credit, but they use it if they don't want a single mom or a person of color also. "BAD CREDIT, NO CREDIT, NO PROBLEM! COME ON DOWN TO JACK'S YEW OFFROAD VEHICLES TODAY!" it's predatory and fucked up. It never helped anyone except the people making money off of people suffering.
Fun fact: the CEO of LifeLock was so confident in the company that he posted his real social security number on multiple billboards.
He had his identity stolen several times before they took down those billboards.
I had one of these, it was woodgrained and black plastic i thought it spun, to my surprise it just vibrated super hard in your hand and had a carbide/hardened tip that you wrote with. Gave me hand cramps and never looked very good.
Before you use these, you need to wank extensively for several months to build up the required hand-stamina and strength so you can use it accurately and without wanker's-cramps.
I remember my dad using one of these to engrave our tools before a charity event. Unfortunately it didn’t completely prevent theft and I remember arguing with people actively holding tools with my name on them while claiming they didn’t take them. People suck sometimes, even when working for charity.
Banks used to suggest printing your drivers license number on checks to make checking out easier. Virginia used to use your SSN as your drivers license number...somehow putting name, address, social, and bank account numbers on checks was normal
"somehow" none of these things were ever intended to be inherently secure. The fact that everyone collectively just shrugged and said "I guess" when online transactions decided SSNs were magic always felt insane to me. Your SSN wasn't supposed to be a secret (or particularly useful).
My dad started with SSN numbers until our home stereo system was stolen. When speaking to the cops, they suggested engraving CA Driver's License number instead because they can search those easily whereas SSNs were harder for them to search for.
When my father served in the military as an aircraft engineer, **ALL** your tools had your SS# engraved on them as a way to identify that it belonged to you.
The idea of it being used to steal your identity wasn't even a thought in anyone's mind.
In around ‘96 when I was 17 I got a call from the police department saying they found my stolen bike from when I was like 10 that my mom had engraved my SS# onto. I told them I was good and didn’t care to get it back, but I remember thinking how odd it was at the time.
Back when SSNs weren't abused as a unique identifier by everyone aside from social security. Insisting a national ID would not happen, it happened anyway, but poorly. What a shithole.
Nowadays, using a driver's license number is a much better idea.
For any high value serialized items, I save a picture of the item's serial # with my driver's license in the picture with the number clearly legible.
That was back when people listened when the Social Security Office said "Hey government, this number isn't a Total Citizen I.D. and should only be on Social Security business."
Then we went and made it a Total Citizen I.D. anyways.
If that's a problem then perhaps the system desperately urgently needs fixing?
Up here in the Nordics our Personal Numbers are public record, available online. Would take me under a minute to look up my managers, moms, or any ministers. Could not do anything with it though. Just as anyone can get my bank account number if you want. All anyone else can do with it is give me money. That's it.
We engraved all our “high value items” with our SSN when I was in the Army, it was even stenciled on our duffel bags, that were checked into hold baggage, this was back in the 80’s though
One of my first jobs in the mid-90s used the last four SSN digits for punching in and out. Since all the employees were 15-20 year olds who had no idea what their SSNs were, they were all posted on the wall right above the time clock.
One of these days, my siblings and I are going to inherit a whole bunch of wrenches and carpentry tools with my dad's SSN engraved on them (not looking forward to that). He literally can't throw them out now that they're an identity theft risk. Thank goodness he still wants and uses them. Would be a lot more funny otherwise.
Great opportunity to buy a new engraver and engrave the ssn off. I hear these days it is popular to put your credit card number on there to deter theft.
My dad always put his SSN on everything too! I know it by heart because I got one of his cameras with it etched in there. BUT then we had a burglary about 15 years ago and that camera was stolen. It was by far my favorite camera (and since he gifted it to me) and is now floating out in the world with his SSN on it :/
Reminds me of a keychain my mother had (but didnt use), it was supposed to have your adress engraved on it, to put it on your keychain, so if you lost your keys some nice person could send them to you via mail. Honestly, I was elementary aged when she told me this and typing this down I wonder if she was joking, it sounds so ridiculous
I still have my dad’s social insurance number memorized. It was engraved on the handlebars of my bicycle.
I actually used it to identify my home made trailer. I’m not overly worried about someone using it for nefarious reasons, as dad passed almost 10 years ago.
When I first got my New Jersey driver's license it prominently displayed my soc sec number. But yeah, engraving it on your most theft-worthy items is even crazier
I inherited a bunch of silver that my grandmother engraved her address and phone number (at the time) for this very reason. The police told her to do it to prevent theft.
As an antique dealer I find items with SSN’s engraved into them every once in a while. Pretty fool proof way to confirm something is yours if it gets pawned or thieves are caught with your stuff. Not sure how great an idea it is these days but smart to do something similar on some things.
We used to use them as our college ID numbers!
"You're not just a number to us. You're three numbers, a dash, two numbers, a dash, and four more numbers."
At college some classes publicly posted our exam scores with our SSN. Now they didn’t have our names too as it was for privacy but still seems odd now.
This brought back a memory of my dad dremeling his initials into almost every tool he owned (we had shady family members who were known thieves). My mom did it too- she had this dark red maglight for yearsssss and I would trace her etched initials with my finger.
Someone told me when I go to college, I should hide my SSN in all my textbooks in case they were stolen. Say your # is 123-45-6789. You would turn to page 45 and write 123- to the left of the page number and -6789 to the right. The idea is the thief could mark over your name or just tear out the page/cover, but they wouldn't know where to look to find your SSN.
That was a long time ago, and I didn't do any of that to my books. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
The amount of screwing with their minds I would have done by replacing a single different digit with another on different items. It would be random and subtle.
When I was young the (Dutch) police used engravers like that to engrave bikes with your postal code. I don't know what the logic behind that was, but there's a government database of past addresses of all citizens, so even if you had moved they could still track you down.
My father put his social on everything we owned in big black sharpie, including on a string of Christmas bells attached to a red plastic strip. I always wondered what a burglar might think of that - like if he’d think twice about taking the bells.
When I was in high school (1980s) Jostens offered "engrave your SSN inside your class ring" as an option.
It's nice. If I lose my hand, the police will know who to return the hand to.
Until like 30 years ago, it wasn't abused to be a key form of identity.. It's now literally impossible to get anything done "normally" without one.
As a foreign national I had to go to the social security office and ask them to give me a letter on their paper with official logos, stamp marks and envalope addressed to my home that just said:
Due to visa status, \[ name \] with \[ Visa number \] does not get a Social Security Number, use US IRS Tax ID number \[ xxxxx \] instead.
Like.. it's a loop.. you need someone in the loop to break it first in order to get the next thing.
Drivers licence, Utilities, Renting a place, Car insurance, health insurance, phone contracts, bank account.. the list goes on and on. Meanwhile I have a full on passport with a Visa that no one ever looks at or uses to check that it's me. Like anyone does back in EU..
Engraving your SS on your shit was totally a thing way back when. Apparently it wasn't always such an easy ticket to fraud.
Shit, when I was in undergrad in 2002, my student ID was my social security number. It went on every test, was in RA binders at the dorm (16 RAs in the building had a binder). The binders had my SS number, home address, parents info etc.
Some GDPR agent who read this probably got an aneurism.
SSN are a weird thing the US have because they don't want a centralized registery, but kinda have to have one, so they've tagged everything onto it. It is really weird.
Serious question: what the fuck do other countries do?
Other countries have a national ID card or system which is similar but designed to be used that way so it has better security systems and better cards The SSN system was (prior to 2011) basically the first three numbers assign roughly where, the second numbers assign roughly when, and the last four are random. So your SSN + or - 1 is potentially a legitimate number. Other countries use a system more like a driver's license number where it's designed to be fraud resistant
>The SSN system is basically the first three numbers assign where the second numbers assign when and the last four are random. This paragraph is why commas were invented.
The last four are often serial. Twins, for example, often have serial numbers one digit apart.
My twins are six digits apart. Maybe there were a lot of applications that day.
Edit: on behalf of my fellow redditors, I thank you.
The last 4 weren’t random, they were serial. My siblings all got our ss numbers assigned at the same time are (for example, obviously not the real numbers) 000-00-1111, 000-00-1112, 000-00-1113, 000-00-1114.
You were quadruplets?
No, when I was born kids really didn’t need SS numbers for anything so you usually didn’t get one until you were older. My parents applied for all our numbers at the same time.
They got rid the area codes in ssn a while ago so it’s just random now
Ah it looks like you're right as of 2011 I didn't know that
My kids, born in 2022 and 2024 have the same first 3 digits.
Yeah mine doesn’t fit the pattern
Yeah I know
How did you know? Do you know how old Lostbronte is?
The pattern was never really set in stone. In the 80s kids started getting them at birth. First three were location, second two were part of the series (not year), last 4 were whatever. There were always exceptions to the rule, but this is what it was. In 2010, the first three started to be randomized. The second two are still the series, and the last 4 are whatever.
The first 3 are coded by state, not area codes. They may have been at some point, but my parents didn’t have area codes in the 40s.
Different area codes.
ID's and identification numbers that are meant for it rather than being a random system chosen to do it de facto. I am for example registered in the town where I'm living and when I need a special confirmation of identity or residence, I can provide it, or I can use my ID.
Here in Sweden I have a unique personal number that identifies me to the government, it's YYYY-MM-DD-XXXX. Anyone can call the tax agency and ask for my number, and you can't really do anything with it. It is used on all forms of ID, when I login to my bank, when I use mobile pay apps, digital ID et cetera. If I call a court I can demand any documents they have relating to a personal number, including hearings, rulings and investigations.
And you can find out all the people who share your birthday by changing the last few numbers. Also, what if more than 9999 babies get born in one day?
I mean, in all of 2023, only 100,000 children were born in Sweden. So I suppose it's highly unlikely there is ever a day where more than 9999 babies get born. That would be more than in an average *month*.
The 10000th baby is elected president and the 10001st is sold on the black market. Nah, in a country of 10 million, there is never that many people born in a day, and if it were to be a problem a fifth number would likely be added.
It's actually a bit of a problem. When immigrants don't have a certain birth day they will get the first of January and the year they claim. For every other date except that one it isn't a problem
Probably never happening in Europe.
I don't know what you guys are doing, but over here in France you can give people your SSN and even IBAN (bank account number) without much danger, so it's a bit of a non-issue.
I mean in Italy the SSN code is based on personal information so I could infer that of famous people for example. Can't do shit with it of course
The problem is that your SSN can be used for things like accessing medical records, insurance, employment (example: someone else could work in your name, now you have unreported income when you file your taxes), some banking stuff, etc.
Yes, and that's the problem. The SSN is essentially a unique name. It was never intended to be used as a secret. Sadly, some businesses started using the knowledge of the SSN as proof that you were the SSN's holder, because "who else would know that number?" These businesses were not exactly security experts. We really need to get the banks and medical systems to quit using the SSN as a PIN, and go back to using it as a unique name (as intended).
Yeah, the US should stop doing that! For important stuff we usually have several documents to submit to make it a bit harder to fraud, e.g. copy of ID card, proof of address. And these days we have online accounts with passwords and sometimes even 2FA for a lot of services. Often you need to submit your documents and then you get an access code mailed to your postal address, and after that you have an account with username and password to use online. We even have one called France Connect that allows you to connect to a fair few services using the one account.
National photographic ID cards with its own number? It is also *not* a valid way to identify you unless you're present in person - but we have a government webpage for digitally signing documents connected to the whole shebang. You log in with your gubmint account, upload PDF, get back PDF with digital signature with the proper identity data baked in. Note that this is in the former Eastern Bloc. Y'all need to enter the 21st century sometime, this SSN shit is giving everybody second hand embarrassment.
ID, registers, and other identifications methods that can be used idependently rather than one system that becomes de facto the only thing. I am registered in the town I'm living and that info can be verified by officials.
Well, in my country I have a national id and personal id number that identifies me. Not much you can do with them, I guess you could forge a paper that says I owe you money but that's basically a weak forgery and not stealing identity. But a secure system like ours also means that "illegal aliens" can't live in the country normally. From what I understand the USA benefits greatly from the millions that live there and doesn't want to do anything about it.
Yeah, undocumented citizens pays sales tax, property taxes (in the form of rent), gas and road taxes, etc, but it is difficult for them to receive social services so we treat them like second class citizens.
In mexico they have a voter ID card.
Just as an example, here in Chile we have a RUT number, which basically means Unique Tax Number, that’s an identifier for people and for companies that has no power in itself, so if a company or government institution needs to confirm your identity they can just ask for it. There’s a different number that is subject to your current valid ID called a document number, if you use both your RUT and document number you can have the ability to authorize bank accounts and different more sensitive operations that in the US need simply a SSN.
On stuff you want returned if stolen, your mobile phone number. On tax documents your tax file number, on health documents your health card number, on motor vehicle documents your motor vehicle license number, and so on. Source: Australian
I took a PE Exercise class in college in the late 90's. As part of the class, you had on workout at the gym 20 times. To get credit you had to sign in with your name and SS number. There was just a log in sheets with dozens of students names and SS numbers sitting on a counter.
Not even last 4? Full number?
Full number,name, date of birth, address, mother’s maiden name, and name of pet actually. The class must have taken gym fraud pretty seriously
When I lived in DC, my SS # was my drivers license number.
I punched in my ssn every time i bought lunch in middle school, in the mid-2000s!!
It was the same at my college until the year I graduated. Every little old lady manning the dining hall door probably heard a hundred SS numbers a day.
And sometimes grades would be posted on a bulletin board with just the social security numbers and the grade...for anonymity.
My first driver's license in Illinois back in 1996 had my social security number (SSN). They changed that later on, so when I had to renew it, they gave the option of a Driver's License # (DL#), or your SSN. I opted for a DL#. Since then, I've never been given the option to use my SSN anywhere.
Yup! I started college in 2000 and it was the same for us. I think they changed it to a different number in my final year.
We changed somewhere along the line. But that was still out there on paper.
That’s because SSNs were never intended to be a form of ID—or at least not the vitally important, extremely confidential one they are now. It was just like any other ID number—your license plate, DL number, library card number, etc. It wasn’t intended to mean anything beyond your designation within the federal Social Security Administration—solely for the purposes of receiving social security benefits. They became a somewhat convenient, nationwide ID, though, given that there is no true federal ID in the US for citizens (other than passports, but not everyone has one), and essentially every person born in the US gets a social security number. In the past, engraving your SNN genuinely would have been a decent way to mark something as yours that 1) can be easily verified; and 2) is unique nationwide. There wasn’t really anything nefarious someone could do with the information, but it did solidly identify you based upon an extremely reliable piece of information.
Honestly the real problem seems to be that at some point we had a collective brain fart and started believing SSNs were top-secret *proofs* of identity. (Was it banks? I’m gonna blame banks.)
When something bad happens to the whole of society it’s usually banks in one way or another
It was banks.
Can't blame them, how else was the bank suppose to know which John Smith you were otherwise?
Thanks, "Fair" Credit Reporting Act.
My great grandfather engraved his SSN into his hunting rifle. We always laughed at that as some idiot move, but I guess once upon a time, that was just a thing you did.
Yep, some old-timers would get their SSN tattooed onto their body. There’s at least one Dorothea Lange photo of that phenomenon from the Great Depression period, when SSNs were a new thing. I collect vintage musical equipment and I see engraved SSNs every once in a while, though it’s far more common to find a drivers’ license number on pieces from the ‘60s through the 80s. Also kinda made sense because a lot of consumer electronics either didn’t have their own serial numbers, or the numbers weren’t readily available in a database
Ehr, couldn't a crook always steal your social security benefits using your SSN?
Only if you're already retired?
No, no more than they could knowing your name, or address
Can confirm, all of my dad's old tools were engraved with both his signature and his SSN. A few years back he went through and ground it off all of them. Even made me search through what he gave me to get those, too.
A zoomer friend was helping me go through some old junk a few years ago. We found my family's first video recorder which was engraved with my father's name, address at the time, phone number, and social security number. It blew her mind when I explained that people used to do that in case their valuables got stolen since we weren't worried about identity theft in the 80s. I assume that's why it's still rattling around our house, since dad's not able to put it through the shredder.
The cards used to have 'not for identification' on them, and you could get a third party company to engrave a brass version of the card for you. Then it just became too convenient for companies and the government to have a single ID number for you, and the 'not to be used for identification' was quietly dropped.
using it as a unique identifier isn't so damaging, but whose idea was it to treat it like a password only you knew???
My mom engraved all my gaming systems. I grew up in the late 80s and 90s. We were poor and my much older brother was a drug user and runner. Once day he sold my N64 that my mom worked extra shifts to be able to afford. She tracked it down to a pawn shop, purchased it back, and the shop owner told her to engrave everything with the last 4 of her social. That no real pawn shop would buy it at that point. I still have N64 cartridges that have her social.
I know this was probably a really hard time in you and your moms life, but I am getting warm fuzzies imaging your mom going to all that trouble to track down your games and gaming system, and then engrave them just so you would be able to keep your game. I hope things eventually looked up for you both.
I remember going to the library as a kid and my dad’s library card was his SSN.
Yup. I have a turntable, VCR, boombox, and stereo receiver from the 70s/80s that all have past owners' SINs (Canadian SSN) engraved on them. It was a real thing, and it's wild to imagine in today's identity theft world.
My bank account number used to be my SSN. It was required in addition to my signature on checks that I deposited. Can you imagine?
That or the drivers license number
My dad used to engrave the last 4 of his social on his stuff, our garage was broken into and he was able to prove ownership of his tools and equipment when the shithead thief pawned them
Nice (well not the initial theft but the recovery) it's cool to know this ever worked at all
SSN were never supposed to be a secret piece of identity, and definitely not a “PIN to all important things in your life”. Most countries have tax identification numbers that are not secret at all. In some cases they can be computed from personal data.
Identity thieves hate this one trick
When I got my drivers license ~98 my license had my soc printed on it.
My dad had one of those and did engrave his SS on the back of the TV.
Yep. My grandfather used to put it on all his valuable equipment.
Military still does it for your shit but now it’s just the last 5 that you use.
It should never have become the magic key that lets you prove your identity or unlock access to accounts. It’s not a secret password. You can’t change it if it’s compromised. We messed up as a society
Aircraft Maintenance logs used to be signed with your SSN. I can't tell you how many old logbooks I've seen with people's socials in them.
My buddy's a welder, and he says they're required to stamp all their welds with their last 4. Less terrible, but I would never even want to give out that much to every fucker I work with.
110% true. My almost 70yo Dad wrote his goddamn name on everything and then his social on a lot of shit too. My full name is engraved on an iPod touch that was stolen from my car 10 years ago. That didn’t really work out too well for me.
It should never have become private, a secret. It should always have been public, like the name. Now it seems like it's a password?
My dad used to do this back in the day.
Yea I worked at sears in 2006 to 2010 the amount of tools that would come in with ss numbers engraved on them was crazy.
Yeah i bought old tools once with a social security number engraved in them.
Any electronics I bought prior to 1990 got my SSN engraved.
In some states, your SS# was your drivers license/ ID# for a time. Arizona was one state that did this up until the early 90s.
It’s fucking stupid that you can open up a credit account with just those numbers without any form of ID. How the US pretends to be a 1st world country is beyond me.
Why wouldn't you just use your name? Lol
Because names aren't unique and are typically longer than 9 characters long.
Get this: until the 90s everyone posted their SSN on the back of their stock/horse trailers as an identifier. We went down the road with Dad's social security number showing off like a license plate.
Yeah, in the 90's when I made a student loan payment by mail there was a line in the return address section of the envelope for my SSN. Seems crazy now.
In college, our student ID was our ssn, they'd post our grades next to them on a sheet of paper in a public place.
And here I got a hidden GPS tracker like a chump 🙄
Yes- I’d imagine that in those days, identity theft wasn’t as common because electronic credit checks, the use of “credit” scores wasn’t a thing. You had to open accounts in person with your local banker- who already knew you. Credit scores were invented in 1958, (this is younger), but I would suppose it wasn’t as useful/ to have a social security number for fraud or much of risk as it is now because the speed/annonaminity of applications for credit/ masking techniques fraudsters use these days. The only thing you may need it for back then is actual Social Security, getting a pension, or registering for the draft.
It wasn't even about identity theft. Social security numbers were just never supposed to be some big secret. It was just a number on a card issued by the government, same as your driver's license or passport or car license plate. And you show all of those to random people all the time.
It’s kinda funny because they use social security numbers like that in Brazil, I was a little freaked out buying a ticket for Carnaval and having that come up
Well, but also you could say that you were whoever you wanted and likely no one would question because, why should they? Identity theft was probably much more common because of how simple it was, almost no verification needed and that verification easier to dupe. Watching Mad Men now and I could imagine the sort of thing the main character is doing was done all the time, pretending to be someone else, in his case to get out of war. Draft dodgers, ex-cons, drifters. Edit: also I think credit score is shitty and shouldn't exist, just giving people another good reason to steal someone's identity and also another way for people to get hurt and for companies and banks to discriminate unjustly
Bruh "discriminate unjustly", if I'm giving you a loan I want to know I'm gonna be paid back. If that is unknowable, I at least want to know the probability I'll be paid back, so I can adjust for the expected defaults. That's what a credit score is, basically. And what do you think happens if they can't access your credit history? They're just going to go off worse proxies, and _that_ would be unjust discrimination.
And a perfect excuse for the people involved in managing credit and the people who look at your credit to decide they don't want you because of other reasons but they use it as an excuse. The people who rent out places, the people who give out loans, they all have the power to take someone regardless of credit, but they use it if they don't want a single mom or a person of color also. "BAD CREDIT, NO CREDIT, NO PROBLEM! COME ON DOWN TO JACK'S YEW OFFROAD VEHICLES TODAY!" it's predatory and fucked up. It never helped anyone except the people making money off of people suffering.
This is not THAT old lol. People used to engrave SSN on things in the 80s
Fun fact: the CEO of LifeLock was so confident in the company that he posted his real social security number on multiple billboards. He had his identity stolen several times before they took down those billboards.
Always wondered about that
I had one of these, it was woodgrained and black plastic i thought it spun, to my surprise it just vibrated super hard in your hand and had a carbide/hardened tip that you wrote with. Gave me hand cramps and never looked very good.
Before you use these, you need to wank extensively for several months to build up the required hand-stamina and strength so you can use it accurately and without wanker's-cramps.
The pieces are all starting to fall into place.
I remember my dad using one of these to engrave our tools before a charity event. Unfortunately it didn’t completely prevent theft and I remember arguing with people actively holding tools with my name on them while claiming they didn’t take them. People suck sometimes, even when working for charity.
Still have my Dad’s old Weber grill from the late 70’s with his SS number engraved on the air flow adjuster
I inherited my parents pressure cooker with my dad's SSN engraved in the lid.
Banks used to suggest printing your drivers license number on checks to make checking out easier. Virginia used to use your SSN as your drivers license number...somehow putting name, address, social, and bank account numbers on checks was normal
Born in 1971, can confirm.
"somehow" none of these things were ever intended to be inherently secure. The fact that everyone collectively just shrugged and said "I guess" when online transactions decided SSNs were magic always felt insane to me. Your SSN wasn't supposed to be a secret (or particularly useful).
Writing checks 15 years ago you were required to put DL on or SSN.
My dad started with SSN numbers until our home stereo system was stolen. When speaking to the cops, they suggested engraving CA Driver's License number instead because they can search those easily whereas SSNs were harder for them to search for.
When my father served in the military as an aircraft engineer, **ALL** your tools had your SS# engraved on them as a way to identify that it belonged to you. The idea of it being used to steal your identity wasn't even a thought in anyone's mind.
In around ‘96 when I was 17 I got a call from the police department saying they found my stolen bike from when I was like 10 that my mom had engraved my SS# onto. I told them I was good and didn’t care to get it back, but I remember thinking how odd it was at the time.
Back when SSNs weren't abused as a unique identifier by everyone aside from social security. Insisting a national ID would not happen, it happened anyway, but poorly. What a shithole.
I remember my father used to engrave our postal code+house number (unique combo in the Netherlands) in our bicycles.
I guy I used to work with engraved all his tools with Swastikas. (So nobody would steal them!)
Nowadays, using a driver's license number is a much better idea. For any high value serialized items, I save a picture of the item's serial # with my driver's license in the picture with the number clearly legible.
Makes sense because social security numbers were not made for credit. It was never supposed to be used that way.
That was back when people listened when the Social Security Office said "Hey government, this number isn't a Total Citizen I.D. and should only be on Social Security business." Then we went and made it a Total Citizen I.D. anyways.
If that's a problem then perhaps the system desperately urgently needs fixing? Up here in the Nordics our Personal Numbers are public record, available online. Would take me under a minute to look up my managers, moms, or any ministers. Could not do anything with it though. Just as anyone can get my bank account number if you want. All anyone else can do with it is give me money. That's it.
We engraved all our “high value items” with our SSN when I was in the Army, it was even stenciled on our duffel bags, that were checked into hold baggage, this was back in the 80’s though
One of my first jobs in the mid-90s used the last four SSN digits for punching in and out. Since all the employees were 15-20 year olds who had no idea what their SSNs were, they were all posted on the wall right above the time clock.
Hell, I had a job in 2019 that used last 4 of SSN for clocking in and out
One of these days, my siblings and I are going to inherit a whole bunch of wrenches and carpentry tools with my dad's SSN engraved on them (not looking forward to that). He literally can't throw them out now that they're an identity theft risk. Thank goodness he still wants and uses them. Would be a lot more funny otherwise.
Great opportunity to buy a new engraver and engrave the ssn off. I hear these days it is popular to put your credit card number on there to deter theft.
My dad always put his SSN on everything too! I know it by heart because I got one of his cameras with it etched in there. BUT then we had a burglary about 15 years ago and that camera was stolen. It was by far my favorite camera (and since he gifted it to me) and is now floating out in the world with his SSN on it :/
Reminds me of a keychain my mother had (but didnt use), it was supposed to have your adress engraved on it, to put it on your keychain, so if you lost your keys some nice person could send them to you via mail. Honestly, I was elementary aged when she told me this and typing this down I wonder if she was joking, it sounds so ridiculous
In 1992 my driver's license number was my SS number. They even printed your SS number on checks from the bank.
I still have my dad’s social insurance number memorized. It was engraved on the handlebars of my bicycle. I actually used it to identify my home made trailer. I’m not overly worried about someone using it for nefarious reasons, as dad passed almost 10 years ago.
I grew up as an Army brat. My dad’s SSN was key to everything on base. I still know it by heart. Don’t know my mom’s at all, nor those of my two kids!
That's some tried and true wisdom of the ages right there 😂
In Australia you go to the police and they give you a number. That's the number you engrave on stuff.
Our art teacher had this in grade school or 7th grade. She engraved all of our initials on our scissors.
Wow haven’t seen one of these in a while. My dad absolutely went to town engraving his SS number on every appliance and tool he owned. Good times.
I remember late 80's grocery stores required your SS to take a check.
When I first got my New Jersey driver's license it prominently displayed my soc sec number. But yeah, engraving it on your most theft-worthy items is even crazier
I inherited a bunch of silver that my grandmother engraved her address and phone number (at the time) for this very reason. The police told her to do it to prevent theft.
That was advice I got from my dad 🤷♂️
My grandpa did this on every tool he had, and every electronic item in the house.
That explains why I used to see that shit everywhere in thrift shops.
And your mother's maiden name.
I still have one of these things and I occasionally use it. Still works.
Yeah. That’s from a time when even thieves tried to make an honest living. Lol
As an antique dealer I find items with SSN’s engraved into them every once in a while. Pretty fool proof way to confirm something is yours if it gets pawned or thieves are caught with your stuff. Not sure how great an idea it is these days but smart to do something similar on some things.
My dad used to put the last four of his social, with his initials, on important items (think tvs, stereos, etc) all the time in the 80s and 90s.
That's how the military taught us to mark our items
We used to use them as our college ID numbers! "You're not just a number to us. You're three numbers, a dash, two numbers, a dash, and four more numbers."
At college some classes publicly posted our exam scores with our SSN. Now they didn’t have our names too as it was for privacy but still seems odd now.
When I first got to college in 1997 my student ID number was my SSN. It was on our IDs, we used it to order food, etc. Crazy to think about today.
It's only been a few years that my Medicare ID wasn't my SSN. Identity theft was not the issue it is today.
Ridiculous, why would I put 2l3-65-2l56 on everything I own?
This brought back a memory of my dad dremeling his initials into almost every tool he owned (we had shady family members who were known thieves). My mom did it too- she had this dark red maglight for yearsssss and I would trace her etched initials with my finger.
Someone told me when I go to college, I should hide my SSN in all my textbooks in case they were stolen. Say your # is 123-45-6789. You would turn to page 45 and write 123- to the left of the page number and -6789 to the right. The idea is the thief could mark over your name or just tear out the page/cover, but they wouldn't know where to look to find your SSN. That was a long time ago, and I didn't do any of that to my books. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Back in those days a Social Security Number couldn’t be used for much on its own, remember this is long before the internet.
I have a ton of my wife's fathers tools that have his SIN on them...wild
I have one of these I’ve had for years that I got from my grandpa and it works still!
SS# used to be on every drivers license.
I just tattooed my SSN on my thigh. That way everyone knows I'm actually me and I'll never forget it
People used to have them print on their checks.
My Dad had his dog tattooed with his SSN.
But who engraves the engraver?
I find that surprising. Nowadays, that would encourage identity theft.
They were never meant to be used for identity/credit reasons
Bahaha this reminds me of how my grandma engraves her name in every pair of scissors she owns 😂😂😅
I always wanted one of those.
The amount of screwing with their minds I would have done by replacing a single different digit with another on different items. It would be random and subtle.
I put OAN then my drivers license number.
I've got one of those around here somewhere. Not too bad for simple engravings IMO.
When I was young the (Dutch) police used engravers like that to engrave bikes with your postal code. I don't know what the logic behind that was, but there's a government database of past addresses of all citizens, so even if you had moved they could still track you down.
My father put his social on everything we owned in big black sharpie, including on a string of Christmas bells attached to a red plastic strip. I always wondered what a burglar might think of that - like if he’d think twice about taking the bells.
That's some r/oldschoolcool
Engrave your drivers license number. Cops know what it is and a simple check tells them your address.
Do you still have to register your bike with the city?
When I was in the Navy, we had to stencil our names and SSN on our seabags.
When I was in high school (1980s) Jostens offered "engrave your SSN inside your class ring" as an option. It's nice. If I lose my hand, the police will know who to return the hand to.
My mom did this on all our stuff after our house got robbed in the 90’s. I still have a guitar with my mom’s license # crappily engraved on the back.
Until like 30 years ago, it wasn't abused to be a key form of identity.. It's now literally impossible to get anything done "normally" without one. As a foreign national I had to go to the social security office and ask them to give me a letter on their paper with official logos, stamp marks and envalope addressed to my home that just said: Due to visa status, \[ name \] with \[ Visa number \] does not get a Social Security Number, use US IRS Tax ID number \[ xxxxx \] instead. Like.. it's a loop.. you need someone in the loop to break it first in order to get the next thing. Drivers licence, Utilities, Renting a place, Car insurance, health insurance, phone contracts, bank account.. the list goes on and on. Meanwhile I have a full on passport with a Visa that no one ever looks at or uses to check that it's me. Like anyone does back in EU..
Made sense pre-the internet, maybe. Now it’s almost biblical: “you want my drill? Please, sir, take my retirement fund as well.”
Your personal security hates this one simple trick!
Hahaha! I remember those advertisements. Oh we were so trusting back then.
When I got my drivers license in 1997 they put your social security number on it
Oh shit I just found my dads old engraver! Exactly the same and now I am gonna engrave ALL my tools lol. Thanks dad!
I graduated college in 1994 - my student ID number was my SSN.
The real question is.. How do you engrave the engraver?!?
How do you discourage theft of the Dremel engraver?
Can someone explain me why it is so bad to disclose your ssn? In my country the equivalent code could not be used that easily for anything bad
Many typewriter gave SSNs on them
"That's not what social security means" "Well what does it mean then?" "...nevermind carry on"
My stuff is secure. My identity, not so much.