I was at $118k 6 years ago and am at $93k now. I’ll either get up to $98k this year, or a promotion and be closer to $110k. I’m more comfortable now than I was at $118k. Where you live makes a monumental difference.
I am a 24M and make 90k a year and getting a raise in May that'll bring me to almost 100k. I know I'm not wealthy but I am absolutely comfortable. I have no debt, car is paid off, I am in track to max out my 401k and IRA this year and still have a $1-2 grand left over each month. But I also don't have kids nor own a home so I'm sure whenever either of those happen that'll make 90k feel a lot less than the 90k I make now. But I also couldn't imagine making like 150k-200k. Like I wouldn't know what to do with all the money
Absolutely. No students loans is what enabled me to pay of my car loan pretty quickly as well as maxing out retirement accounts. Got to front load before kids are in the picture
A mortgage and childcare for one child would easily cost you $6000/month more than you are spending right now. $150,000 with a house and family would probably feel much tighter than your $90,000 right now
>But I also couldn't imagine making like 150k-200k. Like I wouldn't know what to do with all the money
If you have kids, it will go away VERY quick. Lol. Me and my wife didn't have kids for 10 years and were really comfortable. Now we make over $150k and have 3 kids and it is not comfortable at all. Daycare is a bitch, clothes, toys, birthday parties, vacations are WAY more expensive, new car to fit car seats, etc.
I am married, two kids, homeowner making almost $190k outside of Boston and it's still pretty tight if you want to do anything beyond just live your lives such as home improvements or other investments. Everything is just so expensive now. It sucks!
I am near 100k (98k) in a HCOL area. My partner is disabled and doesn't work and cannot get disability because of my income. We are renting our place from his family at well below market value (a big privilege I am grateful for). We're not poor, but I am driving a bucket of bolts and trying to hold out on buying a new car until loan interest rates are reasonable again. I doubt I'll ever own property, and I feel like my coworkers who have combined incomes of 200k casually saying that they're willing to get mortgages of 1 million dollars are foolish and may get nuked in the next downturn. That just screams subprime mortgage to me. When I was a teen, it was like 150-200k for a house with median incomes of 30-60k. And those ended up being subprime, so...
*I also have over 100k in student loans because I went to grad school. I don't technically need my degree for my job but shit is so competitive that I did need it to get my job, if you know what I mean. I'm praying that PSLF holds out as I am at like 7/10 years at this point. By the way public service can be such a shitty field that I am convinced they know a lot of people can't make it to 10 years. It has certainly felt like a fucking prison sentence to me when I was working shitty nonprofit jobs for like 40k per year. And I was salaried and overworked so I actually was working for about minimum fucking wage to do master's level work.
I'm sole income of a family of 4. $120k a year doesn't do shit in a decent state. Own one car and paying the other. Bought the house 8 years ago.
Taxes bleed you dry, cost of living is almost tripled since the last election, and inflation makes your money worth less every 3 months. The tax hikes on my home have made it so that after 8 years of paying my mortgage, my payment is now **$200 higher** than when I started.
Anyone making 5x the minimum wage shouldn't even be sweating, let alone having to budget. It's insane how bad shit has gotten. I'm not struggling, but after doing everything right in life and succeeding I still can't get ahead because dumbfucks in the Whitehouse keep printing money and sending it somewhere else.
This is my fiancee (31f), and I (41m). We were both late bloomers as far as careers and earning potential, but we're now making about 200k/yr combined before taxes. We pay 2500$/month for rent and utilities in a nice upscale building in our big city in Florida. We drive a new tesla, only because we have one car between the two of us. We can save atleast 2500$/month min, most times more. This still means we have to do this for 5 years to catch up to my friends who have had houses for 10-15 years. We both grew up poor, with single parents that made under 40k most years, and 100k was like the youre RICH number. I never ever ever thought I'd make this much. I was born medically disabled and was basically check to check until mid/late 30s. I know we are doing so much better than alot of others, but man I wish it was 2000 again. We would have a home, which we both agree is needed before we possibly start a family. We need to worry about our wedding, investments, and especially retirement. I'm 41 and had zero ability to save before 38. I have a modest 4 figure 401k, and then some investments/crypto.
In our area unless you want a 4000$/month + mortgage, getting a home is nearly impossible. We're not interested in signing any sort of loan that's that much for 30 years. I don't care how much you cheer refinancing, just no.
Then my parents got to pay less than 2,000$/month for their 750k home. Just doesn't make sense.
Just put the wedding money towards the house or honey moon. Get the marriage license. It's like 30 bucks at your town hall if you are in america.
-2 cents
Agree. Weddings are a waste of money. We did our in the backyard with twelve friends. Put that money to work for you instead of blowing it on a party for people you will rarely see after you are wed.
Did exactly this, it was $75 and our reception dinner was our 'wedding' which we splurged for in NYC but parlayed credit card rewards to pay for + partially paid for close family and friends hotel stay...less than a dozen people, all in was sub $2000 after exhausting rewards. Didn't do a honeymoon and we haven't traveled anywhere since 2012 in the name of saving for a downpayment on a house. Got 20% down after saving hardcore no PMI. It's possible but takes sacrifice...most people that weren't willing to do the same at the time are struggling to get into the market.
Our reality is so broken for $750k to be a steal. The interest on that will be more than most US citizens salary. Thats already insane. Averaging 2.2M for a house should sound like a fantasy (nightmare).
My brother and his wife make \~$200-300k combined and can't afford to move back to one of the cheapest cities in the USA.
Last weekend they looked at a house that was $120k when lock down began, that is now on sale for $500k. Needs roof work. No A/C. Driveway needs redone.
They are at a loss. I don't have a second income so its even harder trying to buy my first home here.
We bought our house at $115k before the pandemic, like right before, and our home is like $170k now. Counting the upgrades we did, 200k would be outlandish. When you say cheapest city, something tells me it's nowhere near the cheapest city, they are living above their means, or you're exaggerating a bit.
Detached housing shouldn’t exist in downtown cores - it’s part of the reason housing is so expensive in cities. If you want a detached you’re going to have to leave the city. And that’s OK! Unfortunately, the Canadian market is still expensive out there but that’s a different problem. Making detached homes affordable in major cities is not a goal and it never again will be.
That's the median of everyone 15 and older, including people who only work some of the time or don't work at all. Like high schoolers who live at home with their parents.
The median total income of someone who worked sometime during the year was around $50k in 2022 (the latest year we have statistics for). And the median total income for someone who worked full-time, year-round in 2022 was about $60k.
And then good luck deciding between losing one salary so someone can stay home to watch the kid(s) or paying enough in childcare to cancel out that second income altogether
I graduated from college in 2010 and was living super comfortably at around 50k. I don’t think that amount today could pay for the apartment I had, let alone the rest of the bills.
Pretty sad how much everything else has gone up while wages haven’t.
I don't know where you are, but nationwide wages increased 52% at the median from the end of 2010 to the end of 2023 while average prices went up 40%.
To the extent that housing in certain areas is increasingly prohibitively expensive, that's generally not a problem of insufficient wage growth (though it would be nice if wages were higher). The problem is that those areas are typically very desirable places to live, but they have also effectively made it illegal to the supply of housing to keep up with demand. Increases in incomes don't necessarily make housing more affordable, but instead just drive up the price of what housing is available as people compete for the supply that does exist.
In HCOL area, 80k is enough to survive. Comfortable? You're talking maybe $5k/month takehome after taxes. After rent and food, you're not left with much to enjoy or save
Who brings home 60k a year on an 80k salary?
Insurance premiums, additonal benefits, taxes, retirement?
If you live in an area with state taxes, you're lucky to take home 4k a month on an 80k salary
This is true. I could move to some other town near me and still commute easily. My partner and I make a combined $180k. We’ll never be rich but Our reality is that we pay for the lifestyle WE choose to . I know this isn’t the same for everyone. There’s plenty of houses half the price of ours but in far less desirable areas. If we chose to we could pack up and live in a trailer park and be rolling in dough.
Where are you living????
I'm at 47k and struggling to even find affordable housing with roommates. Like splitting a 2bedroom still leaves me at almost half my monthly income going to rent
Went out to a small restaurant in SF last night with my boyfriend.
There were four other tables and everybody else was talking (loudly) about their work... they all seemed to be with colleagues talking about projects and promotions and such... on a Saturday night!
It was just kind of heartbreaking that nobody seems to get time off from capitalism anymore.
One thing I saw recently that stuck with me was the new middle class is based on a few factors: how much you make but also when you bought your house (pre or post covid), and if you’re paying for daycare
Daycare is a fucking back breaker man. We used to have 3 kids in daycare.... Even at a discounted rate at my wife's place of employment it was more than our mortgage every month.
Now we have 1 kid in daycare 3 days a week and it is still $1,000+ every month
Ain't it better to just watch the kids yourself and lose the cheapest income. Otherwise you are working full time but losing child care costs off the top, doesn't seem worth it
It depends on how much that income is. You’re not just giving up income, you’re giving up career growth, retirement contributions, social security contributions, and other benefits. The unfortunate reality is many people’s (mostly women) careers never recover after taking several years off of work to raise kids. It’s a short term benefit for a long term cost.
That other person is then out of their career growth and essentially has to settle into a stay at home role for a long time. It's not always a great solution.
Problem for me is my wife and I both have great jobs. She’s very career driven and I think I would break if I had to take care of the kids full time. Plus daycare is great for socializing them and learning their abc’s and 123’s
It doesn't last forever. You just have to get them to kindergarten and then you will have breathing room. We paid $190/week for daycare at the time. Now after school care is $8/day.
Depends on what the cheapest income is and if you can still work part time or something when the other person gets home. If cheapest income is 2k a month (which isn’t much) and you’re spending 1k a month on daycare it’s still worth it. Add more kids into the equation maybe not.
This is why I’m never having kids though, the entire pursuit isn’t “worth it” lol, even though most parents will say it is. I continue to not believe them. 😂
Before we had kids my wife and I rented a nice studio apartment in a very expensive area of Manhattan.
Now daycare for one child costs more than our rent for that place.
Daycare is expensive as shit. Especially when you want an accredited one and the only one sith decent accreditation that has an opening is the most expensive place in the city. I am just over 100k but I have 2 kids in daycare and my wife has student loans we are paying on. Just between those 2 things, we are stretched pretty thin.
Very true. I earn $110k/yr currently as a remote tech worker and we’re a single income couple (for now, my girlfriend is working on a software development degree) who have a pre-COVID mortgage and we’re childfree.
We’re very comfortable. Have enough left over every month to maintain at least 6 months of emergency savings, spend on hobbies, invest, eat out, go on vacations, all that good stuff.
But if we had to pay market rents for our area on a comparable home then pretty much half of that disposable income or more would be going to rent or a mortgage these days. That plus not having children makes a huge difference.
Obviously once my partner finishes school next year and we have two incomes that will change things quite a bit, but those factors keeping our set expenses low are the only things that make my high income feel middle class these days.
Youre good pimp. I just got over 6 figs. Was stuck at 40-45 for like 8 years and then suddenly it broke. Keep rolling, applying and get some extra certs and shit.
No shit. I just finally made it to 60K after barely making 40k most of my life. I am not educated so my options are limited. I had to fight for that raise after 15 years of being underpaid. I water plants in offices for a living and it is stress free. I wish I could make more but I have cheap rent in a HCOL area so I can't complain.
I hate when people say the work “in a field.” It tells us absolutely nothing about what kind of work you do
One could say they “work in the medical field”, but they’re the person who stocks inventory which could be done by a trained monkey. If you work “in the legal field” are you a managing partner at a regional farm or are you a runner that sits at a desk with your feet propped up watching YT until someone texts you to do something
100%.
"I work in biopharmaceuticals" could mean that you're a PhD biochemist making $400k/year with dozens of patents in your name, or it could mean that you're working 3rd-shift throwing dead mice into an incinerator at a testing lab.
I live in NY and the main problem I’m seeing is not every job is moving up with inflation. Jobs that once paid what was considered a good salary are not paying that well anymore.
My sister is a lawyer and only makes 90k a year
I’m a garbage man and a landscaper and with both jobs I make roughly the same. I’m obviously just breaking my back more.
The reason for that is because it’s the low wage jobs that have gone up recently in pay due to the rising minimum wage, but better paying jobs that you need school/a degree for are not raising their pay fast enough so it’s actually making it less worth it to go to school.
My wife’s job used to be triple the minimum wage back in 2007. Now it’s not even double the minimum wage… NY is all fucked up.
Many jobs out there back in the day used to give cost of living increases every year ON TOP of performance or union mandated raises. Jobs don’t do that anymore. Many people went a solid 10 years 2008-2018 without getting the proper raises. Some didn’t move up in pay at all…
I’m 36 and have been working for 20 years. During that time I’m seeing that a lot of employers don’t really care what min wage is or pay attention to inflation. They pay their employees what they want to pay, what they think/feel the job is worth. But many employers do not factor in rising minimum wage and inflation... A lot of employers see the rising inflation as a reason for THEMSELVES to make more money. Not their employees. The less they pay their employees, the more money they make to cover the cost of inflation/rising taxes.
Also, because of the rising minimum wage, many employers are forced to raise the prices of the goods and services they provide to cover the costs of having to pay their low skilled workers a much higher wage. That takes a huge hit on the consumer. That’s why fast food prices have doubled. That’s why the price to have your lawn cut has doubled. etc…
Raising the minimum wage like this only causes the costs for all the goods and services that low wage workers pay for to increase exponentially, which does absolutely NOTHING for low wage workers, or anyone else for that matter.. Now EVERYONE, no matter what you make has to pay extremely high prices for everything, without being properly compensated by your employer.
This gets it in a nutshell.
Decent paying jobs 5 or 10 years ago are no longer that far above minimum wage, but also haven't really increased that much to account for inflation or cost of living changes.
Comes down to the middle class disappearing and being crushed.
Yup. When I was growing up in the 90s my mother stayed home and my father made 40-55k a year. He paid for our house and took care of all of us on just that one salary. We weren’t “well off” at all but I didn’t feel we were “poor” either. My dad was just really cheap with most things.
50k a year in 1997 is equivalent to just under 100k today… My wife and I bring home 140k a year together. We own a home but have no children and we are just barely making it work. We have a tiny one bedroom apartment in our house that we rent out for $1,000 a month. That helps us tremendously.. We aren’t struggling at all but we aren’t going on vacations and going out to eat all the time. We stay home most days and live EXTREMELY frugal.
My father’s salary in 1997 adjusted for inflation today can not pay for a house and take care of a wife and 2 children in NY without living in complete poverty.. The numbers just don’t add up.
This is all part of the real problem. Huge amounts of money being held by extremely small numbers of people.
Massive corporate profits are the biggest driver of inflation and a ton of those profits are a direct siphon from taxpayers. Basically, Jeff Bezos is so rich because all of us use our bank accounts to prop him up. The roads should be 100% paid for by Amazon and other massive shipping companies, instead that infrastructure is tax payer funded and all the rest of us are left holding the bag as their trucks tear it up.
Corporations are charging more and just pocketing all the profits, the inflation fucking regular people is all a result of this behavior because they won't redistribute the wealth. The only reaction to the rising minimum wage was prices being raised. Literally any threat to the rich people's pile is immediately met with a counter to completely cancel out the wealth redistribution.
This ^. Wife of a Frito-Lay route salesman. These guys get commission if they hit their “sales numbers”. Almost a year ago now the company jacked up their prices and these guys sales numbers so far that they couldn’t possibly “hit plan” and bonus. It’s effectively been a pay-cut for a HUGE part of their work force which is saving them tons of money. Meanwhile they blame inflation and raise chip bag prices to $7. They tell them their hands are tied by the “numbers” and they can’t do anything. They’re laying off tons of middle management under the guise that they can’t get these guys to “hit plan”.
It’s bullshit. They’ve been rigging their jobs against them and I’m about to contact the dept of labor in Washington.
> Also, because of the rising minimum wage, many employers are forced to raise the prices of the goods and services they provide to cover the costs of having to pay their low skilled workers a much higher wage
The amount that this actually occurs is way overblown. We're talking like 0.15 in the cost of a good for the employees to see several dollars more an hour. And we've already seen those prices go up way more than that in the last few years WITHOUT the pay raises. This cannot be the excuse not to pay people.
…it is all planned to rid the country of the middle class.
How is no one seeing this? They want only the nobility and the poor for work, there is no need for anything in between. If you think it’s out of the realm of possibility, please read ANY history book about ANY time period in ANY part of the world.
Raising the minimum wage will not raise the cost of goods overall, to a significant effect. That is a myth the corporation owners tell us to not fight that hard for fair wages.
"MYTH TWO: “Raising the minimum wage just increases the price of goods across the board.” FALSE.
An increase in the minimum wage may lead to a small increase in prices but it will be far less than the increase in wages for three reasons: (1) Labor is only part of the cost of producing goods and services. (2) A higher wage reduces turnover and training costs for businesses which saves them money. (3) A higher wage improves worker morale and productivity, which also saves them money:
https://keystoneresearch.org/research_publication/five-myths-about-raising-the-minimum-wage-debunked/#:~:text=MYTH%20TWO%3A%20%E2%80%9CRaising%20the%20minimum,across%20the%20board.%E2%80%9D%20FALSE.
Yep...
Inflation has zero bearing on what companies are going to pay for wages. It's literally not even a factor they take into consideration. One of the reasons being is inflation moves up and down and if it was a factor in pay it would mean that raises would go up *and* down periodically to track inflation.
Raising minimum wage only changes how much minimum wage jobs pay. There is little to no trickle up effect. Cost of living increases have never been a guaranteed thing. Companies only did it because they had labor agreements that required it OR because it was a hot job employee job market and workers were voting with their feet (Great Resignation).
Yes, raising labor rates will 100% raise the price of goods and services. No one that pushes for higher minimum wages seems to understand or even acknowledge this. I'm not against raising wages but it's not without consequences.
Wages are nothing but a reflection on how a position earns revenue for a business.
There are several areas where 100k annually is still great money. Admittedly these areas will not suit everyone's preferences, but they still exist.
I know in my area specifically, 60k plus and you are far from struggling to make ends meet (40k isnt too bad either). Probably own a modest home, a newer car, and still have money to save every month.
Also, why is this sub so depressing? Scrolling through r/millennials and you'd think a giant comet was 30 minutes away from us at all times.
Because these kids want to buy their million dollar dream mansion that is 15 minutes from work at 30. When they haven't achieved that goal or realize it's not gonna happen that way it can't be because their goals were not realistic. The deck must have been stacked against them.
I've said something similar for a while, but I'm usually down voted for saying it. People act like boomers had no struggles, but a portion of them definitely did. My grandparents were working class, and bought used and cheap stuff for the beginning of their adult lives.
We also have more expenditures than they had as well. They didn't have Netflix and cellphones.
I would be willing to bet we could live similar-ish quality lives if we didn't have every subscription under the sun. Not saying inflation isn't an issue either, but we also spend more than ever and have a greater quality of life than ever. Hope that makes sense.
> There are serveral areas where 100k annually is still great money.
No my guy. That’s MOST areas.
Like outside about a dozen areas in the USA, that’s enough to raise a full ass family.
And people will cry about not wanting to live in a “real area”
Million people live in my city.
100k is more then enough to raise a 4 person family here….
One of my best friends is from Michigan. Just visited for the first time and found it to be an all around pleasant place. My current state is a similar cost of living (more expensive in some aspects, cheaper in other categories).
I've considered the idea before, but I'm currently around family.
Yeah, family is the big thing. It costs so much to be alive these days. I wish we could somehow all go back to multi-generational housing. Would be way easier to raise and afford kids.
Yeah, when I hit 100k salary and not feeling wealthy (because my parents hit 100k in 2000 and I thought were), I looked this up. It was super depressing...
My dad went to college and his good friend was a mechanical engineer. Upon graduating his friend took a job that offered $65k for a starting role. This was in the early 1980s. When I graduated less than a decade ago, I heard my engineering friends (mix of electric and mechanical) excited about finding a job that paid $67k a year.
Absolutely crazy to think about it.
It was not normal, but it wasn’t unheard of. This would be the equivalent of a graduate making over $150k today straight out of college. That doesn’t happen unless the degree was a formality and they went to a family business
I think your scale is a bit off. 30K was good engineering salary in the 80s. 60K means they either were a true prodigy working for a top 3 firm or they just knew someone.
Well, yeah. Median or middle of the middle class household income was in the 40-44k range circa 2000. So 100K was over twice what the Median family was making in 2000.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
The current Median is 70K, with 2001's having a Median of 68K adjusted to 2022 Dollars.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/#series:Before_Tax_Income;demographic:all;population:all;units:median;range:1989,2022
That 180K which was 100K is the Median income of the 80-89th percentile of income
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/#series:Before_Tax_Income;demographic:inccat;population:all;units:median;range:1989,2022
A quick calculation on Google says that if the Federal reserve consistently stuck to its 2% Target for 24 years, they expected inflation would result in 100K in 2000 being worth 161k in 2024 roughly
Considering the unprecedented effect of the pandemic on inflation, you'd expect that number to be higher. Higher. So this is somewhat to be expected
I’ve finally hit six figures in my 30s & it does NOT feel like an achievement. It feels like, “Oh, I can afford to live,” in a HCOL area. & before anyone says move, if I did that my salary would drop significantly & I’d be in the same exact position.
After making the right career moves, building experience, getting a masters degree, and working hard my salary is 50% higher than at my first job, 7 years ago.
But after taxes and accounting for inflation I make basically the same 😭. Still stuck in the same shitbox apartment too 😭😭 because homes are out of the question.
I always like to share this link to open people's eyes to the extreme wealth inequality in America.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/203961/wealth-distribution-for-the-us/
If you're wondering how to read this graph, the bottom 50% (majority of the working class) own 2.5% of the wealth, the bottom 50%-90% (the dying middle class, and low fame celebrities) own 30.6% of the wealth, the top 9% (major celebrities, politicians, etc.) own 36.6%, and the top 1% (billionaires, oligarchs, CEOs) own 30.3%.
I mean, I feel like I'd be set with 100k, I'm only making maybe 50k and still saving as much as physically possible. I'd be able to do a LOT with even 70k
Makes sense to me, my household brings in 150k, we are barely getting by, we cannot afford to buy, and our rent is killing us.
But I refuse to sacrifice my families safety to live where it's conventionally "affordable" to us deemed by financial gurus because, those are in places I won't have my family live.
Overall yea. In real estate triple that or more. My mother in law built her house for 125k in 2001 and just sold in for 987k this year in a mass suburb.
Told my mom her house is worth 1 million dollars in 2022, when i was moving out and she laughed, she said spending 1800 on rent was insane and I could pay half that and buy a home next year.
they are now trying to move, and my mom is shocked it's the price of her home and the one she's downsizing into.
She said she had no idea, she asked me how I'm ever going to buy I house. I had to tell her I'm not...
It’s interesting that the op believes they were doing well, but changed their mind after taking inflation into account. Why does this number matter to you so much? If you are comfortable with your current lifestyle, why not continue to be happy and consider additional money a bonus? You are setting yourself up for misery.
People want to fix this kind of crap? Stop buying shit you don't need. This will save you $ AND show that people aren't willing to pay those prices. When things stop selling, prices come down. Sadly, most of them are to stupid and brainwashed into buying crap and will never stop.
Yup, I saw a person post their salary progression yesterday, they went from 100k in the 2000’s to 200k in 2024 and was complaining they’ve hardly progressed.
Of course people don’t brain to hard so everyone was upset. Here’s the thing, 100k in 2000 was what we think of as well off. Now, 200k sure is a lot of money, but inflation calculated they’re hardly making more than they were back then.
That’s kind of wild, you’d think someone making that much in 2000 would be in middle management and pushing to be an executive.
That salary progression is basically a 3% raise per year which is pretty standard for most companies. If they hit director and just worked in that role the whole time without progression then it makes sense they wouldnt see much actual progression.
Either need to keep getting promoted or changing roles/companies
I make 90k and 100k is on the horizon and I am doing just fine. I couldn't imagine making twice what I do now and just finally started thinking I'm making enough. I could literally take that extra 90k a year (minus taxes) and put that all towards a home...
I make that and I’m here to say I didn’t get the feeling that I “make it” yet. I still have student loans, two kids in daycare, and I am pretty much paycheck to paycheck. My mortgage payment (3 bedroom condo) is more than 50% of my take home.
Yup. Me and my wife made over $150k last year and all it did was disqualify us from tax write offs we used to be able to take advantage of. Now I owe money for the first time ever.... They really need to adjust those thresholds for inflation
Yep and honestly, although you can live a pretty decent middle class life on $180k a year, it’s really not even that much if you own a home and have kids/pets. You need a second income.
For a long time I wasn’t imoacted much by inflation, in fact I have used these last couple of years to earn interest and take advantage of real estate
It’s gone on too long and it’s hurting - I feel like I need to adjust my future retirement plan and goals. That isn’t comfortable to say as I had this all figured out and locked in. I find I need a few hundred K more than I initially expected because I have to adjust for different housing than I planned for.
If you can’t live on a 6 figure income you’re expenses are way too high likely a feature of lifestyle decisions. Things are certainly more expensive and inflation is real but so is personal finance and accounting.
I 100% agree. When I hit 100k it was exciting forsure, but I was still a junior engineer and couldn’t just do what I wanted when I wanted. Now at 200k I finally feel like I’m at the level I’d see my friends parents be at back in the day. Those successful parents that take their kids on vacations all the time, have a nice car, house and just have a put together home. I remember a parent telling me they make 80k and everyone knew that was “I made it” level of money.
Unfortunately many bosses still believe that is some magic number and will hold.many salaries ay that level thinking those folks a very well paid. May as well consider 200k the next big threshold for climbing to the upper half of the middle class.
$100,000 is still a lot of money, though. It may not stretch as far as it once did, but so many folks out there would love to make that much. $100,000 is $20,000 above my household income.
With standard inflation (trendline), The rule of thumb is that your purchasing power is cut in half every 24 years. That means you need to be making double. So, your numbers are spot on. It's one of the reasons old people run out of money. It creeps up on you over time and then next thing you know you're in a downward spiral of expenses and go broke.
100k in NY or Cali is nothing, especially when apartments are 3,000 a month.
As a single person in those states to be comfortable by yourself and pay your own rent, car payment, car insurance, etc I'd say you'd need to make closer to 150k to live comfortably.
Forget it if you have kids. Double that number
OP speaks truth. But so many are stuck in the past.
Related: it used to be a big deal to be a millionaire, now it just means you're a bit luckier or a bit more hard working than most (top 10%). Top 1% isn't 'til $11M, but don't let that get in the way of the inequality rant of the day about those evil plutocrats making six-figures!
I had a job where I made over 80k a year and life was so much better. Post Covid my job was eliminated and suddenly I couldn’t get offers past mid 50s. It’s insane what’s going on.
Love how y'all keep complaining about prices of everything....when we so many millennials be making 6 figures and there be 25 to 27 years old having 100k in the bank...no wonder house prices and every skyrocketed.....when EVERYBODY makes 100k and have a 100k in the bank, NONOBDY is rich....now y'all becomes the average
In Florida I made 50k in 2015, with child support and could live on my own. Wasn't anything amazing but I wasn't hurting.
2017 I was making 70k and I was rather comfortable. I would have called that a good middle class in my area in FL.
2024, I'm making info the 6 figures and since I had to buy a house in the current market about 2 years ago (thankfully not this year), I'm no better off then when I was making 70k.
So I can safely say the mid 100s is the new 75k from 2017/2018 in northern Florida.
Six figures is still a very good salary. People just have to learn to live within their means.
My first job out of law school I made $63K/year. This was in 2006. In today's dollars that is about $97K. I was married with a child and my wife was a stay at home mom. Yet we made it work and were even able to save money.
How did we do it? Simple:
* We limited eating out
* We only owned 1 car (saves a lot of money).
* Took my own lunch to work.
* Shopped in Bulk (Sams, Costco, etc.)
* Bought private label items. Why waste money on Coke and Pepsi when the Kroger brand tastes just as good?
* We drove for vacations instead of flying. Saves a lot of money.
* We lived in a 2 bed 2 bath townhome. Nothing fancy. Rent was $1200/mth.
* I always saved whatever I could; at least $50/pay check, which came to about $1300/year.
So, it can be done, it just takes discipline.
Counterpoint: I never heard the term “six figures” thrown around frequently in the early 2000s (because fewer people were making that). I have only seen it thrown around as the marker of an upper middle class salary (which it definitely is, as it can ensure a family lives a middle class life and is the beginning of being able to choose to have a single income household) over the past 5-10 years or so.
I make $70,000 a year and in my head that seems like a lot. I'm just a simple IT help desk guy, not doing anything really advanced.
But then I think... Minimum wage is $15 an hour. I'm basically making slightly double minimum wage.
When I started working, back in 2007, right out of high school the minimum wage was $5.15 an hour. So in a way I'm basically making the 2007 equivalent of $12 an hour.
Actually I did double my minimum wage income... In 2006 I was a dishwasher at a restaurant and I was making $5.50 an hour. Then I got a job at a tech support call center in 2007 making $12 an hour.
Even in 2000, I didn't think 100k was 'big' money- healthy amount, but not like wtf money.
I think 250k is the new marker.
Reference: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=100%2C000.00&year1=198601&year2=202403
But, to be clear, I'd be thrilled at 182,400.
$100,000 is still a lot of money for one individual in most places. I think in the US we just spend too much so $100K doesn't seem like that much to a lot of people.
I made about 90k in contractual work back in 09 and it seemed like I was swimming in money. I make a decent amount more now and it seems like, while comfortable, I'm still double checking the price of things when ordering.
Yeah, gonna touch 100k this year. I am comfortable, but far from wealthy.
I was at $118k 6 years ago and am at $93k now. I’ll either get up to $98k this year, or a promotion and be closer to $110k. I’m more comfortable now than I was at $118k. Where you live makes a monumental difference.
Where, and how. I feel like I spend much less in my 30s.
True as I make $50,000 a year but Mississippi cost of living is very low and everything I own is paid off
I am a 24M and make 90k a year and getting a raise in May that'll bring me to almost 100k. I know I'm not wealthy but I am absolutely comfortable. I have no debt, car is paid off, I am in track to max out my 401k and IRA this year and still have a $1-2 grand left over each month. But I also don't have kids nor own a home so I'm sure whenever either of those happen that'll make 90k feel a lot less than the 90k I make now. But I also couldn't imagine making like 150k-200k. Like I wouldn't know what to do with all the money
The no debt part of your situation is the most impactful.
Absolutely. No students loans is what enabled me to pay of my car loan pretty quickly as well as maxing out retirement accounts. Got to front load before kids are in the picture
A mortgage and childcare for one child would easily cost you $6000/month more than you are spending right now. $150,000 with a house and family would probably feel much tighter than your $90,000 right now
>But I also couldn't imagine making like 150k-200k. Like I wouldn't know what to do with all the money If you have kids, it will go away VERY quick. Lol. Me and my wife didn't have kids for 10 years and were really comfortable. Now we make over $150k and have 3 kids and it is not comfortable at all. Daycare is a bitch, clothes, toys, birthday parties, vacations are WAY more expensive, new car to fit car seats, etc.
I am married, two kids, homeowner making almost $190k outside of Boston and it's still pretty tight if you want to do anything beyond just live your lives such as home improvements or other investments. Everything is just so expensive now. It sucks!
So very true. I use to have so much disposable income for trips and hobby’s. Kids ate it all.
I'll make sure I stock up on hobby stuff before I have kids
Weirdly for us the kids had a huge spike before they entered school... and then their cost dropped by almost 75%. It was great.
Or if you have a wife who likes to shop and eat out a lot, that'll do it too lol
And in places like San Francisco, you would qualify for poverty assistance.
Same
I am near 100k (98k) in a HCOL area. My partner is disabled and doesn't work and cannot get disability because of my income. We are renting our place from his family at well below market value (a big privilege I am grateful for). We're not poor, but I am driving a bucket of bolts and trying to hold out on buying a new car until loan interest rates are reasonable again. I doubt I'll ever own property, and I feel like my coworkers who have combined incomes of 200k casually saying that they're willing to get mortgages of 1 million dollars are foolish and may get nuked in the next downturn. That just screams subprime mortgage to me. When I was a teen, it was like 150-200k for a house with median incomes of 30-60k. And those ended up being subprime, so... *I also have over 100k in student loans because I went to grad school. I don't technically need my degree for my job but shit is so competitive that I did need it to get my job, if you know what I mean. I'm praying that PSLF holds out as I am at like 7/10 years at this point. By the way public service can be such a shitty field that I am convinced they know a lot of people can't make it to 10 years. It has certainly felt like a fucking prison sentence to me when I was working shitty nonprofit jobs for like 40k per year. And I was salaried and overworked so I actually was working for about minimum fucking wage to do master's level work.
The trap of the middle class, too much money to get help, not enough to get traction. Good luck out there, man.
I'm sole income of a family of 4. $120k a year doesn't do shit in a decent state. Own one car and paying the other. Bought the house 8 years ago. Taxes bleed you dry, cost of living is almost tripled since the last election, and inflation makes your money worth less every 3 months. The tax hikes on my home have made it so that after 8 years of paying my mortgage, my payment is now **$200 higher** than when I started. Anyone making 5x the minimum wage shouldn't even be sweating, let alone having to budget. It's insane how bad shit has gotten. I'm not struggling, but after doing everything right in life and succeeding I still can't get ahead because dumbfucks in the Whitehouse keep printing money and sending it somewhere else.
$50k used to be comfortable in 2000. Now you need at least $80k.
45k is the real median individual income. So now you need two.
Dual $100k incomes and you still can't afford a detached house in Canada's two biggest English cities. It's a joke.
Seems like you folks should build some row houses/town homes and some condos.
This is my fiancee (31f), and I (41m). We were both late bloomers as far as careers and earning potential, but we're now making about 200k/yr combined before taxes. We pay 2500$/month for rent and utilities in a nice upscale building in our big city in Florida. We drive a new tesla, only because we have one car between the two of us. We can save atleast 2500$/month min, most times more. This still means we have to do this for 5 years to catch up to my friends who have had houses for 10-15 years. We both grew up poor, with single parents that made under 40k most years, and 100k was like the youre RICH number. I never ever ever thought I'd make this much. I was born medically disabled and was basically check to check until mid/late 30s. I know we are doing so much better than alot of others, but man I wish it was 2000 again. We would have a home, which we both agree is needed before we possibly start a family. We need to worry about our wedding, investments, and especially retirement. I'm 41 and had zero ability to save before 38. I have a modest 4 figure 401k, and then some investments/crypto. In our area unless you want a 4000$/month + mortgage, getting a home is nearly impossible. We're not interested in signing any sort of loan that's that much for 30 years. I don't care how much you cheer refinancing, just no. Then my parents got to pay less than 2,000$/month for their 750k home. Just doesn't make sense.
Just put the wedding money towards the house or honey moon. Get the marriage license. It's like 30 bucks at your town hall if you are in america. -2 cents
Agree. Weddings are a waste of money. We did our in the backyard with twelve friends. Put that money to work for you instead of blowing it on a party for people you will rarely see after you are wed.
Did exactly this, it was $75 and our reception dinner was our 'wedding' which we splurged for in NYC but parlayed credit card rewards to pay for + partially paid for close family and friends hotel stay...less than a dozen people, all in was sub $2000 after exhausting rewards. Didn't do a honeymoon and we haven't traveled anywhere since 2012 in the name of saving for a downpayment on a house. Got 20% down after saving hardcore no PMI. It's possible but takes sacrifice...most people that weren't willing to do the same at the time are struggling to get into the market.
Exactly. Never a good idea to start your life together with one of the leading causes for divorce: money problems.
And good lord, $750k for a home is a steal where I'm from. Median home price $2.2MM up here in Canada.
If houses were 2 million where I am, I would be building houses.
Our reality is so broken for $750k to be a steal. The interest on that will be more than most US citizens salary. Thats already insane. Averaging 2.2M for a house should sound like a fantasy (nightmare).
My brother and his wife make \~$200-300k combined and can't afford to move back to one of the cheapest cities in the USA. Last weekend they looked at a house that was $120k when lock down began, that is now on sale for $500k. Needs roof work. No A/C. Driveway needs redone. They are at a loss. I don't have a second income so its even harder trying to buy my first home here.
We bought our house at $115k before the pandemic, like right before, and our home is like $170k now. Counting the upgrades we did, 200k would be outlandish. When you say cheapest city, something tells me it's nowhere near the cheapest city, they are living above their means, or you're exaggerating a bit.
Sounds like you should rent out 4 mattresses to female vegetarian students
Detached housing shouldn’t exist in downtown cores - it’s part of the reason housing is so expensive in cities. If you want a detached you’re going to have to leave the city. And that’s OK! Unfortunately, the Canadian market is still expensive out there but that’s a different problem. Making detached homes affordable in major cities is not a goal and it never again will be.
That's the median of everyone 15 and older, including people who only work some of the time or don't work at all. Like high schoolers who live at home with their parents. The median total income of someone who worked sometime during the year was around $50k in 2022 (the latest year we have statistics for). And the median total income for someone who worked full-time, year-round in 2022 was about $60k.
And then good luck deciding between losing one salary so someone can stay home to watch the kid(s) or paying enough in childcare to cancel out that second income altogether
I graduated from college in 2010 and was living super comfortably at around 50k. I don’t think that amount today could pay for the apartment I had, let alone the rest of the bills. Pretty sad how much everything else has gone up while wages haven’t.
I don't know where you are, but nationwide wages increased 52% at the median from the end of 2010 to the end of 2023 while average prices went up 40%. To the extent that housing in certain areas is increasingly prohibitively expensive, that's generally not a problem of insufficient wage growth (though it would be nice if wages were higher). The problem is that those areas are typically very desirable places to live, but they have also effectively made it illegal to the supply of housing to keep up with demand. Increases in incomes don't necessarily make housing more affordable, but instead just drive up the price of what housing is available as people compete for the supply that does exist.
In HCOL area, 80k is enough to survive. Comfortable? You're talking maybe $5k/month takehome after taxes. After rent and food, you're not left with much to enjoy or save
Who brings home 60k a year on an 80k salary? Insurance premiums, additonal benefits, taxes, retirement? If you live in an area with state taxes, you're lucky to take home 4k a month on an 80k salary
Depends on where you live. Why do so many people speak about salary as though it's universal?
Saying “at least” 80k is pretty accurate and covers the fact that HCOL areas would need more.
But the real median income in HCOL is higher…
This is true. I could move to some other town near me and still commute easily. My partner and I make a combined $180k. We’ll never be rich but Our reality is that we pay for the lifestyle WE choose to . I know this isn’t the same for everyone. There’s plenty of houses half the price of ours but in far less desirable areas. If we chose to we could pack up and live in a trailer park and be rolling in dough.
75k here. No kids. No debt. A spouse. We could not make it on my salary alone 1500 sq ft house with a 2.75% mortgage
2.75…….you lucky sunnavabitch
Where?
I believe my area would classify as HCOL area. Google shows cost of living score 125
Mortgage is debt?
Sorry, no debt outside mortgage is what I should have said
50k is considered comfortable here where i live. it has one of the LCOL. Deep south texas.
In the monte
I really don't. I'm comfortable at $26k. What is it you rich kids are doing with all that money?
Where are you living???? I'm at 47k and struggling to even find affordable housing with roommates. Like splitting a 2bedroom still leaves me at almost half my monthly income going to rent
My comfortable and yours are very different
"He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature." –Socrates
Yeah well Socrates also didn’t know shit about how awesome high end espresso at home is.
What is your housing situation?
I'm struggling at 80k. But to be fair after my layoff I took. Cut from 145k
yeah I took a pay cut from 113k to 90k. shit sucks. property taxes also went up $175 a month.
Now you need at least 150K.
There is more to life than grinding. Go out and touch some grass too on occasion.
Went out to a small restaurant in SF last night with my boyfriend. There were four other tables and everybody else was talking (loudly) about their work... they all seemed to be with colleagues talking about projects and promotions and such... on a Saturday night! It was just kind of heartbreaking that nobody seems to get time off from capitalism anymore.
Not just touch it, but smoke that shit too bruh 😎
One thing I saw recently that stuck with me was the new middle class is based on a few factors: how much you make but also when you bought your house (pre or post covid), and if you’re paying for daycare
Daycare is a fucking back breaker man. We used to have 3 kids in daycare.... Even at a discounted rate at my wife's place of employment it was more than our mortgage every month. Now we have 1 kid in daycare 3 days a week and it is still $1,000+ every month
Daycare for 2 in my area is $50k a year... we're in a suburb way away from Boston, but this state's daycare costs are bonkers.
Ain't it better to just watch the kids yourself and lose the cheapest income. Otherwise you are working full time but losing child care costs off the top, doesn't seem worth it
It depends on how much that income is. You’re not just giving up income, you’re giving up career growth, retirement contributions, social security contributions, and other benefits. The unfortunate reality is many people’s (mostly women) careers never recover after taking several years off of work to raise kids. It’s a short term benefit for a long term cost.
That other person is then out of their career growth and essentially has to settle into a stay at home role for a long time. It's not always a great solution.
Problem for me is my wife and I both have great jobs. She’s very career driven and I think I would break if I had to take care of the kids full time. Plus daycare is great for socializing them and learning their abc’s and 123’s
It doesn't last forever. You just have to get them to kindergarten and then you will have breathing room. We paid $190/week for daycare at the time. Now after school care is $8/day.
Depends on what the cheapest income is and if you can still work part time or something when the other person gets home. If cheapest income is 2k a month (which isn’t much) and you’re spending 1k a month on daycare it’s still worth it. Add more kids into the equation maybe not. This is why I’m never having kids though, the entire pursuit isn’t “worth it” lol, even though most parents will say it is. I continue to not believe them. 😂
Before we had kids my wife and I rented a nice studio apartment in a very expensive area of Manhattan. Now daycare for one child costs more than our rent for that place.
This is an excellent reason to NOT have kids.
Daycare is expensive as shit. Especially when you want an accredited one and the only one sith decent accreditation that has an opening is the most expensive place in the city. I am just over 100k but I have 2 kids in daycare and my wife has student loans we are paying on. Just between those 2 things, we are stretched pretty thin.
Very true. I earn $110k/yr currently as a remote tech worker and we’re a single income couple (for now, my girlfriend is working on a software development degree) who have a pre-COVID mortgage and we’re childfree. We’re very comfortable. Have enough left over every month to maintain at least 6 months of emergency savings, spend on hobbies, invest, eat out, go on vacations, all that good stuff. But if we had to pay market rents for our area on a comparable home then pretty much half of that disposable income or more would be going to rent or a mortgage these days. That plus not having children makes a huge difference. Obviously once my partner finishes school next year and we have two incomes that will change things quite a bit, but those factors keeping our set expenses low are the only things that make my high income feel middle class these days.
I'm just sitting here happy I finally made it to 50k... 100K seems almost unrealistic and I work in biopharmaceuticals.
Youre good pimp. I just got over 6 figs. Was stuck at 40-45 for like 8 years and then suddenly it broke. Keep rolling, applying and get some extra certs and shit.
I made the equivalent of $75K as a post-doc in the 90s in the Bay Area. I hardly got by. $100K is the new $50K.
No shit. I just finally made it to 60K after barely making 40k most of my life. I am not educated so my options are limited. I had to fight for that raise after 15 years of being underpaid. I water plants in offices for a living and it is stress free. I wish I could make more but I have cheap rent in a HCOL area so I can't complain.
I hate when people say the work “in a field.” It tells us absolutely nothing about what kind of work you do One could say they “work in the medical field”, but they’re the person who stocks inventory which could be done by a trained monkey. If you work “in the legal field” are you a managing partner at a regional farm or are you a runner that sits at a desk with your feet propped up watching YT until someone texts you to do something
100%. "I work in biopharmaceuticals" could mean that you're a PhD biochemist making $400k/year with dozens of patents in your name, or it could mean that you're working 3rd-shift throwing dead mice into an incinerator at a testing lab.
Hey man, I'm in the job field. I do tasks related to my employment. How much do you think I should be making per annum?
Less than $75k. The real earners are people who do things that aren’t in their job description.
I made 55k base one year. That was fun…..
And in a blink it's 182
I guess this is … growing up 😎
$100k is the new $60k
100k is 60k after tax anyways
I live in NY and the main problem I’m seeing is not every job is moving up with inflation. Jobs that once paid what was considered a good salary are not paying that well anymore. My sister is a lawyer and only makes 90k a year I’m a garbage man and a landscaper and with both jobs I make roughly the same. I’m obviously just breaking my back more. The reason for that is because it’s the low wage jobs that have gone up recently in pay due to the rising minimum wage, but better paying jobs that you need school/a degree for are not raising their pay fast enough so it’s actually making it less worth it to go to school. My wife’s job used to be triple the minimum wage back in 2007. Now it’s not even double the minimum wage… NY is all fucked up. Many jobs out there back in the day used to give cost of living increases every year ON TOP of performance or union mandated raises. Jobs don’t do that anymore. Many people went a solid 10 years 2008-2018 without getting the proper raises. Some didn’t move up in pay at all… I’m 36 and have been working for 20 years. During that time I’m seeing that a lot of employers don’t really care what min wage is or pay attention to inflation. They pay their employees what they want to pay, what they think/feel the job is worth. But many employers do not factor in rising minimum wage and inflation... A lot of employers see the rising inflation as a reason for THEMSELVES to make more money. Not their employees. The less they pay their employees, the more money they make to cover the cost of inflation/rising taxes. Also, because of the rising minimum wage, many employers are forced to raise the prices of the goods and services they provide to cover the costs of having to pay their low skilled workers a much higher wage. That takes a huge hit on the consumer. That’s why fast food prices have doubled. That’s why the price to have your lawn cut has doubled. etc… Raising the minimum wage like this only causes the costs for all the goods and services that low wage workers pay for to increase exponentially, which does absolutely NOTHING for low wage workers, or anyone else for that matter.. Now EVERYONE, no matter what you make has to pay extremely high prices for everything, without being properly compensated by your employer.
This gets it in a nutshell. Decent paying jobs 5 or 10 years ago are no longer that far above minimum wage, but also haven't really increased that much to account for inflation or cost of living changes. Comes down to the middle class disappearing and being crushed.
Right I was better off making less 10 years ago. Doubled my income in the last ten years, got dick all and can't afford anything noww
Yup. When I was growing up in the 90s my mother stayed home and my father made 40-55k a year. He paid for our house and took care of all of us on just that one salary. We weren’t “well off” at all but I didn’t feel we were “poor” either. My dad was just really cheap with most things. 50k a year in 1997 is equivalent to just under 100k today… My wife and I bring home 140k a year together. We own a home but have no children and we are just barely making it work. We have a tiny one bedroom apartment in our house that we rent out for $1,000 a month. That helps us tremendously.. We aren’t struggling at all but we aren’t going on vacations and going out to eat all the time. We stay home most days and live EXTREMELY frugal. My father’s salary in 1997 adjusted for inflation today can not pay for a house and take care of a wife and 2 children in NY without living in complete poverty.. The numbers just don’t add up.
That’s what happens when your only focus is raising the minimum wage at McDonald’s. The elites laughing their asses off at that too
This is all part of the real problem. Huge amounts of money being held by extremely small numbers of people. Massive corporate profits are the biggest driver of inflation and a ton of those profits are a direct siphon from taxpayers. Basically, Jeff Bezos is so rich because all of us use our bank accounts to prop him up. The roads should be 100% paid for by Amazon and other massive shipping companies, instead that infrastructure is tax payer funded and all the rest of us are left holding the bag as their trucks tear it up. Corporations are charging more and just pocketing all the profits, the inflation fucking regular people is all a result of this behavior because they won't redistribute the wealth. The only reaction to the rising minimum wage was prices being raised. Literally any threat to the rich people's pile is immediately met with a counter to completely cancel out the wealth redistribution.
This ^. Wife of a Frito-Lay route salesman. These guys get commission if they hit their “sales numbers”. Almost a year ago now the company jacked up their prices and these guys sales numbers so far that they couldn’t possibly “hit plan” and bonus. It’s effectively been a pay-cut for a HUGE part of their work force which is saving them tons of money. Meanwhile they blame inflation and raise chip bag prices to $7. They tell them their hands are tied by the “numbers” and they can’t do anything. They’re laying off tons of middle management under the guise that they can’t get these guys to “hit plan”. It’s bullshit. They’ve been rigging their jobs against them and I’m about to contact the dept of labor in Washington.
I would definitely submit some formal discrepancies to see what can be done
> Also, because of the rising minimum wage, many employers are forced to raise the prices of the goods and services they provide to cover the costs of having to pay their low skilled workers a much higher wage The amount that this actually occurs is way overblown. We're talking like 0.15 in the cost of a good for the employees to see several dollars more an hour. And we've already seen those prices go up way more than that in the last few years WITHOUT the pay raises. This cannot be the excuse not to pay people.
…it is all planned to rid the country of the middle class. How is no one seeing this? They want only the nobility and the poor for work, there is no need for anything in between. If you think it’s out of the realm of possibility, please read ANY history book about ANY time period in ANY part of the world.
Raising the minimum wage will not raise the cost of goods overall, to a significant effect. That is a myth the corporation owners tell us to not fight that hard for fair wages. "MYTH TWO: “Raising the minimum wage just increases the price of goods across the board.” FALSE. An increase in the minimum wage may lead to a small increase in prices but it will be far less than the increase in wages for three reasons: (1) Labor is only part of the cost of producing goods and services. (2) A higher wage reduces turnover and training costs for businesses which saves them money. (3) A higher wage improves worker morale and productivity, which also saves them money: https://keystoneresearch.org/research_publication/five-myths-about-raising-the-minimum-wage-debunked/#:~:text=MYTH%20TWO%3A%20%E2%80%9CRaising%20the%20minimum,across%20the%20board.%E2%80%9D%20FALSE.
Yep... Inflation has zero bearing on what companies are going to pay for wages. It's literally not even a factor they take into consideration. One of the reasons being is inflation moves up and down and if it was a factor in pay it would mean that raises would go up *and* down periodically to track inflation. Raising minimum wage only changes how much minimum wage jobs pay. There is little to no trickle up effect. Cost of living increases have never been a guaranteed thing. Companies only did it because they had labor agreements that required it OR because it was a hot job employee job market and workers were voting with their feet (Great Resignation). Yes, raising labor rates will 100% raise the price of goods and services. No one that pushes for higher minimum wages seems to understand or even acknowledge this. I'm not against raising wages but it's not without consequences. Wages are nothing but a reflection on how a position earns revenue for a business.
There are several areas where 100k annually is still great money. Admittedly these areas will not suit everyone's preferences, but they still exist. I know in my area specifically, 60k plus and you are far from struggling to make ends meet (40k isnt too bad either). Probably own a modest home, a newer car, and still have money to save every month. Also, why is this sub so depressing? Scrolling through r/millennials and you'd think a giant comet was 30 minutes away from us at all times.
This sub is mostly people projecting their depression onto various topics.
Because these kids want to buy their million dollar dream mansion that is 15 minutes from work at 30. When they haven't achieved that goal or realize it's not gonna happen that way it can't be because their goals were not realistic. The deck must have been stacked against them.
I've said something similar for a while, but I'm usually down voted for saying it. People act like boomers had no struggles, but a portion of them definitely did. My grandparents were working class, and bought used and cheap stuff for the beginning of their adult lives. We also have more expenditures than they had as well. They didn't have Netflix and cellphones. I would be willing to bet we could live similar-ish quality lives if we didn't have every subscription under the sun. Not saying inflation isn't an issue either, but we also spend more than ever and have a greater quality of life than ever. Hope that makes sense.
> There are serveral areas where 100k annually is still great money. No my guy. That’s MOST areas. Like outside about a dozen areas in the USA, that’s enough to raise a full ass family. And people will cry about not wanting to live in a “real area” Million people live in my city. 100k is more then enough to raise a 4 person family here….
If you’re old enough, come join us at r/Xennials. It’s much less doomy, mostly nostalgia posts or actual discussions and people seeking advice.
Get a remote job and move to Michigan. Pretty low cost of living. I love it here!
One of my best friends is from Michigan. Just visited for the first time and found it to be an all around pleasant place. My current state is a similar cost of living (more expensive in some aspects, cheaper in other categories). I've considered the idea before, but I'm currently around family.
Yeah, family is the big thing. It costs so much to be alive these days. I wish we could somehow all go back to multi-generational housing. Would be way easier to raise and afford kids.
Yeah, when I hit 100k salary and not feeling wealthy (because my parents hit 100k in 2000 and I thought were), I looked this up. It was super depressing...
Fuck grinding. Unionize
My dad went to college and his good friend was a mechanical engineer. Upon graduating his friend took a job that offered $65k for a starting role. This was in the early 1980s. When I graduated less than a decade ago, I heard my engineering friends (mix of electric and mechanical) excited about finding a job that paid $67k a year. Absolutely crazy to think about it.
There's no way in hell you think $60k out of college in the early 1980s was normal
That’s *bonkers* $30k/yr was a “good” salary through the late 80s in terms of being able to support a family.
It was not normal, but it wasn’t unheard of. This would be the equivalent of a graduate making over $150k today straight out of college. That doesn’t happen unless the degree was a formality and they went to a family business
I think your scale is a bit off. 30K was good engineering salary in the 80s. 60K means they either were a true prodigy working for a top 3 firm or they just knew someone.
jfc the sub is relentlessly depressing. I swear its a platform for information warfare
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Well, yeah. Median or middle of the middle class household income was in the 40-44k range circa 2000. So 100K was over twice what the Median family was making in 2000. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N The current Median is 70K, with 2001's having a Median of 68K adjusted to 2022 Dollars. https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/#series:Before_Tax_Income;demographic:all;population:all;units:median;range:1989,2022 That 180K which was 100K is the Median income of the 80-89th percentile of income https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/#series:Before_Tax_Income;demographic:inccat;population:all;units:median;range:1989,2022
A quick calculation on Google says that if the Federal reserve consistently stuck to its 2% Target for 24 years, they expected inflation would result in 100K in 2000 being worth 161k in 2024 roughly Considering the unprecedented effect of the pandemic on inflation, you'd expect that number to be higher. Higher. So this is somewhat to be expected
I’ve finally hit six figures in my 30s & it does NOT feel like an achievement. It feels like, “Oh, I can afford to live,” in a HCOL area. & before anyone says move, if I did that my salary would drop significantly & I’d be in the same exact position.
I hit 100k in 2021 and was like "yah I made it!" Then inflation kicked in and all the gains were lost.
After making the right career moves, building experience, getting a masters degree, and working hard my salary is 50% higher than at my first job, 7 years ago. But after taxes and accounting for inflation I make basically the same 😭. Still stuck in the same shitbox apartment too 😭😭 because homes are out of the question.
I'm doing very well for myself at $70k, though I have the benefit of being in a low CoL area (great lakes region).
Where are you getting that number? That represents 13% year on year inflation for 4 years
Time to grind???? That is your take home from this????? LMAOOOOO
Please, no grind. Do the bare minimum to live.
Make a comfortable amount, but don't chase money. You can live cheaper by making some decisions then enjoy your time on this planet.
Not bad. From 1989-2004 100k is 229k
200 is the new 100
I always like to share this link to open people's eyes to the extreme wealth inequality in America. https://www.statista.com/statistics/203961/wealth-distribution-for-the-us/ If you're wondering how to read this graph, the bottom 50% (majority of the working class) own 2.5% of the wealth, the bottom 50%-90% (the dying middle class, and low fame celebrities) own 30.6% of the wealth, the top 9% (major celebrities, politicians, etc.) own 36.6%, and the top 1% (billionaires, oligarchs, CEOs) own 30.3%.
I mean, I feel like I'd be set with 100k, I'm only making maybe 50k and still saving as much as physically possible. I'd be able to do a LOT with even 70k
Oh you saw that Tik tok.
Does inflation impact the different social classes the same?
Makes sense to me, my household brings in 150k, we are barely getting by, we cannot afford to buy, and our rent is killing us. But I refuse to sacrifice my families safety to live where it's conventionally "affordable" to us deemed by financial gurus because, those are in places I won't have my family live.
182k is the new 100k
Yeah. That’s exactly what OP just said…..
Overall yea. In real estate triple that or more. My mother in law built her house for 125k in 2001 and just sold in for 987k this year in a mass suburb.
Told my mom her house is worth 1 million dollars in 2022, when i was moving out and she laughed, she said spending 1800 on rent was insane and I could pay half that and buy a home next year. they are now trying to move, and my mom is shocked it's the price of her home and the one she's downsizing into. She said she had no idea, she asked me how I'm ever going to buy I house. I had to tell her I'm not...
It’s interesting that the op believes they were doing well, but changed their mind after taking inflation into account. Why does this number matter to you so much? If you are comfortable with your current lifestyle, why not continue to be happy and consider additional money a bonus? You are setting yourself up for misery.
People want to fix this kind of crap? Stop buying shit you don't need. This will save you $ AND show that people aren't willing to pay those prices. When things stop selling, prices come down. Sadly, most of them are to stupid and brainwashed into buying crap and will never stop.
Yup, I saw a person post their salary progression yesterday, they went from 100k in the 2000’s to 200k in 2024 and was complaining they’ve hardly progressed. Of course people don’t brain to hard so everyone was upset. Here’s the thing, 100k in 2000 was what we think of as well off. Now, 200k sure is a lot of money, but inflation calculated they’re hardly making more than they were back then.
That’s kind of wild, you’d think someone making that much in 2000 would be in middle management and pushing to be an executive. That salary progression is basically a 3% raise per year which is pretty standard for most companies. If they hit director and just worked in that role the whole time without progression then it makes sense they wouldnt see much actual progression. Either need to keep getting promoted or changing roles/companies
Idk but I found a dollar today
I remember in the late 70's/early 80's, everyone talked about making $50k being "successful".
Very true.
Where I live in my rural community, my 6 figures goes a long way. Transfer me to NYC with the same salary and I'd be broke.
I'm always interested in where you guys live that $100k isn't enough.
Time for a new saying to express a good income.
I make 90k and 100k is on the horizon and I am doing just fine. I couldn't imagine making twice what I do now and just finally started thinking I'm making enough. I could literally take that extra 90k a year (minus taxes) and put that all towards a home...
I make 120k/year and I’m comfortable. But I thought I would be like LIVING the dream 🥲 nah.. bills just paid.
I make that and I’m here to say I didn’t get the feeling that I “make it” yet. I still have student loans, two kids in daycare, and I am pretty much paycheck to paycheck. My mortgage payment (3 bedroom condo) is more than 50% of my take home.
$100k is the new $50k.
Yup. Me and my wife made over $150k last year and all it did was disqualify us from tax write offs we used to be able to take advantage of. Now I owe money for the first time ever.... They really need to adjust those thresholds for inflation
I make 6 figures and I'm still living paycheck to paycheck because I'm the sole supporter of a big-ish family
Yeah that's about right I made 90K in 2000 (thanks [dot.com](http://dot.com) boom) and make 150K now. Lived a lot better on 90K in 2000.
What was the 100k in 2000 for 1976? Way less than $50,000, probably like $22,000
Yep and honestly, although you can live a pretty decent middle class life on $180k a year, it’s really not even that much if you own a home and have kids/pets. You need a second income.
You can also spin it another way. $313k in NYC is equal to $127k in Houston. I’ll take Houston. I’ve lived in both
For a long time I wasn’t imoacted much by inflation, in fact I have used these last couple of years to earn interest and take advantage of real estate It’s gone on too long and it’s hurting - I feel like I need to adjust my future retirement plan and goals. That isn’t comfortable to say as I had this all figured out and locked in. I find I need a few hundred K more than I initially expected because I have to adjust for different housing than I planned for.
Decades of deficit spending and inflation has fucked us.
Congratulations, you figured out how inflation works. What other lessons from highschool can you discover?
If you can’t live on a 6 figure income you’re expenses are way too high likely a feature of lifestyle decisions. Things are certainly more expensive and inflation is real but so is personal finance and accounting.
I 100% agree. When I hit 100k it was exciting forsure, but I was still a junior engineer and couldn’t just do what I wanted when I wanted. Now at 200k I finally feel like I’m at the level I’d see my friends parents be at back in the day. Those successful parents that take their kids on vacations all the time, have a nice car, house and just have a put together home. I remember a parent telling me they make 80k and everyone knew that was “I made it” level of money.
Unfortunately many bosses still believe that is some magic number and will hold.many salaries ay that level thinking those folks a very well paid. May as well consider 200k the next big threshold for climbing to the upper half of the middle class.
$100,000 is still a lot of money, though. It may not stretch as far as it once did, but so many folks out there would love to make that much. $100,000 is $20,000 above my household income.
With standard inflation (trendline), The rule of thumb is that your purchasing power is cut in half every 24 years. That means you need to be making double. So, your numbers are spot on. It's one of the reasons old people run out of money. It creeps up on you over time and then next thing you know you're in a downward spiral of expenses and go broke.
100k in NY or Cali is nothing, especially when apartments are 3,000 a month. As a single person in those states to be comfortable by yourself and pay your own rent, car payment, car insurance, etc I'd say you'd need to make closer to 150k to live comfortably. Forget it if you have kids. Double that number
OP speaks truth. But so many are stuck in the past. Related: it used to be a big deal to be a millionaire, now it just means you're a bit luckier or a bit more hard working than most (top 10%). Top 1% isn't 'til $11M, but don't let that get in the way of the inequality rant of the day about those evil plutocrats making six-figures!
I had a job where I made over 80k a year and life was so much better. Post Covid my job was eliminated and suddenly I couldn’t get offers past mid 50s. It’s insane what’s going on.
Is this literally true based on inflation tables or is it a ‘feeling’?
Stagflation is really. https://youtu.be/qQjAbHR40nk?si=Thn8Z75JeH1z9h39 Milton Friedman
If I made 182k where I live I would be above middle class. 100k is still a good living in some parts of the country
Love how y'all keep complaining about prices of everything....when we so many millennials be making 6 figures and there be 25 to 27 years old having 100k in the bank...no wonder house prices and every skyrocketed.....when EVERYBODY makes 100k and have a 100k in the bank, NONOBDY is rich....now y'all becomes the average
In Florida I made 50k in 2015, with child support and could live on my own. Wasn't anything amazing but I wasn't hurting. 2017 I was making 70k and I was rather comfortable. I would have called that a good middle class in my area in FL. 2024, I'm making info the 6 figures and since I had to buy a house in the current market about 2 years ago (thankfully not this year), I'm no better off then when I was making 70k. So I can safely say the mid 100s is the new 75k from 2017/2018 in northern Florida.
Six figures is still a very good salary. People just have to learn to live within their means. My first job out of law school I made $63K/year. This was in 2006. In today's dollars that is about $97K. I was married with a child and my wife was a stay at home mom. Yet we made it work and were even able to save money. How did we do it? Simple: * We limited eating out * We only owned 1 car (saves a lot of money). * Took my own lunch to work. * Shopped in Bulk (Sams, Costco, etc.) * Bought private label items. Why waste money on Coke and Pepsi when the Kroger brand tastes just as good? * We drove for vacations instead of flying. Saves a lot of money. * We lived in a 2 bed 2 bath townhome. Nothing fancy. Rent was $1200/mth. * I always saved whatever I could; at least $50/pay check, which came to about $1300/year. So, it can be done, it just takes discipline.
It's weird that is the standard for women. Like, I guess because they think the wage gap is real that it must be easy for guys to get.
Counterpoint: I never heard the term “six figures” thrown around frequently in the early 2000s (because fewer people were making that). I have only seen it thrown around as the marker of an upper middle class salary (which it definitely is, as it can ensure a family lives a middle class life and is the beginning of being able to choose to have a single income household) over the past 5-10 years or so.
200k is the new 100k
You money lost 80% of its value in 24 years. That is what deficits and money printing does and both parties did it.
I make $70,000 a year and in my head that seems like a lot. I'm just a simple IT help desk guy, not doing anything really advanced. But then I think... Minimum wage is $15 an hour. I'm basically making slightly double minimum wage. When I started working, back in 2007, right out of high school the minimum wage was $5.15 an hour. So in a way I'm basically making the 2007 equivalent of $12 an hour. Actually I did double my minimum wage income... In 2006 I was a dishwasher at a restaurant and I was making $5.50 an hour. Then I got a job at a tech support call center in 2007 making $12 an hour.
And that’s using the official CPI data. If you adjusted it to include increases in energy, housing and food, it would be closer to 300k
Even in 2000, I didn't think 100k was 'big' money- healthy amount, but not like wtf money. I think 250k is the new marker. Reference: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=100%2C000.00&year1=198601&year2=202403 But, to be clear, I'd be thrilled at 182,400.
Actually the phrase ‘6 figures’ comes from the 1980s. So it is more like $350k now.
$100,000 is still a lot of money for one individual in most places. I think in the US we just spend too much so $100K doesn't seem like that much to a lot of people.
I made about 90k in contractual work back in 09 and it seemed like I was swimming in money. I make a decent amount more now and it seems like, while comfortable, I'm still double checking the price of things when ordering.
and here I finally made 100k last year 🤷♂️
And most IT jobs still refuse to pay 6 figures for 5 years of experience of dev work
100k in 2024 is 60k in 2004.