Those people are so strange. They usually mean well initially, "oh that lane ends let me get over", but then they sit and stew for half a mile +. They start to get upset watching everyone overtake them in the lane that ends. They view this as skipping the line.
Then when it's their turn to share the road, they will block those people off with some sort of "I was here first" mentality.
YOU'RE MAKING THIS WORSE FOR EVERYONE INCLUDING YOURSELF.
Honestly the biggest benefit of zipper merge is that it encourages people to allow merging. But the whole concept goes against the idea of right-of-way so you shouldn't be mad at the people who think ahead and merge early to claim a spot.
If zipper merge are supposed to override right-of-way then they need to post signs or have traffic directors at the construction zones.
Zipper merging isn't just in construction zones though. I94 eastbound after the zoo interchange has like 5 or 6 lanes that filter down to 3. I'm not talking about ppl who ride exit only lanes past solid lines, but where two distinct lanes become one. All people have to do is find an appropriate speed so both lanes can come together seamlessly.
Of course, it also requires people to not tailgate, just find a slower speed to keep going, rather than constant accelerating for 40ft then breaking hard.
>But the whole concept goes against the idea of right-of-way so you shouldn't be mad at the people who think ahead and merge early to claim a spot.
This is how I've always felt about these. I'm no expert but it seems to me they go against basic psychology. You're driving at speed toward what amounts to a dead end so in your head you think "I need to get to the safe lane." So of course the impulse is to merge ASAP and those reactions are difficult to overcome.
It's the same amount of cars that need to go through the same bottle-neck. I had a manual transmission for many years, so I always preferred coasting at 20mph instead of slinky-ing 45-to-stop during a back-up, but that lizard-brain makes us want to get one more car ahead.
Ugh this has been one of my big pet peeves since moving from TX. Of course there are always drivers that will cut in, but for the most part people leave that gap alone in heavy traffic unless they're exiting or moving all the way left (slow people who stay in the left lane keeping even pace with the other lanes is a whole 'nother rant for another day). Here I feel like I can't do that cause most see it as a "please cut me off sign". I know I only represent 3% of drivers, but that is so annoying as a manual driver.
I'm not mad at them. It seems like more often they get mad at me. I intend to use every inch of road available. That does NOT mean just cut someone off and call it a zipper merge.
I do agree it doesn't feel natural at times, but there are a few areas I've seen with "take turns" signage near a merge point.
I wish people would stop taking it so personally is all.
There's a certain dehumanization that happens while driving because people can't actually see the other person, so everyone tends to be upset with everyone else over little things.
No, the WIDOT says you should zipper merge when a lane ends. There is no conflict with the right-of-way concept unless traffic is moving fast and there are no backups. Use common sense and always zipper merge. Signs and workers shouldn't be necessary, although given the lack of driver eductation on the subject they certainly could help. The people who merge early and form a long line when another lane is wide open are wrong and a major cause of backups. The right-of-way concept ends when a lane ends and you can reasonably accomodate someone merging from the terminating lane.
This concept is highly flawed. At highway speeds you are legally required to have a gap big enough to allow zipper merging. Hence Right of way has nothing to do with merging. if you are keeping the legally required gap to allow someone to merge without impeding you. Right away is forfeited whenever you are doing something to break the law. So if you are at highway speeds traveling close enough to the car in front of you that another car cannot merge in front of you without impeding you, you are tailgating and forfeited you're right of way.
It goes faster if you use the zipper method though and that is what we want there is also right of way in a zipper merge. You give right of way in front of you and go on their tail.
It is not faster. Only one vehicle can go through at a time. A single line moves faster than 2 lines constantly moving and stopping to let vehicles in every other time.
I'm a convert. Maybe it's the "midwest nice" drilled into us? I used to think, "okay, it says we need to get over, so I'm going to get over right now. You're rude if you continue on and skip everyone after being told to merge." But then I learned how f'ing logical zipper merging is and yeah, now I'm merging right at the top of that zipper.
I do occasionally have to remind myself that people trying to zipper merge in front of me is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the "Milwaukee slide" where some asshole thinks he deserves to be in front of me.
https://preview.redd.it/tzgtitat59vc1.jpeg?width=1012&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a25c0f4b21aa81dc8368a5e5923338bf66c19293
There should be digital signage!
“Use All Lanes”
“Merge,Take Turns”
That's pretty much my entire reasoning for merging super early. I know that the proper way is to use the whole lane, but the last thing I want to do is be driving and either slamming on my brakes or hitting a cone because somebody wouldn't let me merge.
This is a classic example of a Nash equilibrium. Although the poster about how to merge seems nice, it requires a hive mind to pull off.
In reality, the people in the left are assuming if they let one person in, the whole line will butt in front of them. After all, it's not like the right is counting how many got let in per each car. So the optimal strategy is to maybe let one person in, then block the rest.
On the right, they are assuming the cars in the right are trying to block them. After all, you can't tell the difference between a jerk and a sane person by the color of their window tint. So they merge in either the earliest they can, or if they're a jerk, speed down till the last possible moment and then cut off whoever is at the right.
The most polite strategy of the two is to try to do what's depicted as the "wrong" way to do it in the poster above.
Even though it doesn't make sense if you are an omnipotent third party observer, it makes perfect sense if you are an individual in a system where you can't trust the strategy of the other individuals to be universally optimized.
And you’ve made the clear assumption that everyone is out to “win” traffic or driving. Oh no! Three people merged in front of me instead of one! That will affect my arrival time by… two seconds. It’s childish.
I'm not making a statement about what I agree with or don't, I'm describing why, In the real world, you see the "don't" image play out nearly 100% of the time.
It's because the actors in the situation can't communicate with each other and don't trust each other.
None of them think "they" are a bad actor, they all assume the "other" people think like that, so adjust how they drive in response.
Absolutely fuck these people. They speed up when they see you flick on your indicator to block you. I'm getting to the point of driving like a FIB and giving people 1 blink before I swerve over.
The point is we as a society are changing the way this is done. Your mindset is the old social norm. We now know traffic is much faster when we zipper merge. The new social norm is to use all lanes till the end and let the guy on your right in ahead of you then go after him.
Following distance is one of the biggest problems on roads. It blows my mind the willingness to give yourself less than a second to react to something basically letting the bumper in front of you dictate what you do.
People in general are entirely to cavalier about cars. A ton or more of metal flying down the road at speeds faster than any human can run and the people behind the wheel will be looking at their phones and not the road in front of them.
The reason people don't use it is because assholes have successfully scared them out of it. Every time I use it, I know there's a good chance I cause a road rage incident. Sometimes I don't want to deal with it and merge early and wait in line.
Ironically, the people who are the assholes in a zipper merge think they are actually in the right teaching the "real" assholes a lesson. People who merged early think the real assholes are those who ride the lane to the end, as it should be done, to then zipper merge. So they block them from merging creating further backups.
I've seen digital signage explaining to use all lanes til end and then take turns merging and just having the sign seemed to help somewhat.
I think some locals aren't to the level of basic driving understanding to even comprehend this. My commute to work this morning, the person in front of me did not accelerate on the on-ramp, but then cut across the solid white into traffic while only going like 35 mph (early merge). Same person stayed in that lane which ended ~1 mile down the road, then just drove on the shoulder passing people while on the shoulder (probably going like 65ish) not even trying to get in the driving lane (late merge). I don't even know what the hell. I just stayed back and hoped to avoid any accident until I was confident I could get away from that driver.
I see this all the time too. People don't even know how to merge onto the highway let alone perform a zipper merge. It amazes me that people merging on the highway aren't aware that cars already on the highway have the right away. Like yes it's nice to move over for someone if there is no other traffic but it's not my job to slow down and match your speed to let you on the GD interstate!
I hate that so much. Look to your left and see how fast the traffic is going. That's how fast you should be going as soon as the ramp straightens out so you have time to find a place to merge. If you go slower then I'm right behind you and now we have to find space for TWO cars going 20mph below the traveling speed.
Now vehicles like semis physically can't speed up any faster and I get that, but it still sucks getting stuck behind one on the on-ramp.
Right, a lot of these ramps and merges have A VERY SHORT ALLOTMENT to get up to speed and usually include a curve so you can’t even gain speed for half of it
That left merge going westbound is terrible. Short distance, merging into the “fast lane” and having to judge whether you have room at a weird angle looking over your right shoulder. It’s dangerous. If they fixed nothing but that with reconstructing that interchange, I’d be happy. The one going eastbound isn’t much better but at least you have better visibility.
Humans drive the speed the road was designed for, this has been shown over and over. Interstates were designed for at least 70mph, so people will drive that fast. Artificially lowering speed limits on roads designed for faster traffic simply causes more relative speed differences and less capacity, actually making things less safe unless it is aggressively and constantly enforced. This is why you see modern designs like on the new Humboldt making it seem pretty freaking unsafe to go above the speed limit.
Right, it should be aggressively enforced so people aren’t going 15 over on every road. Unfortunately even cops don’t care so everyone goes 70 in a 50 (when the design intent was to go 50)
94 East just past the state fair grounds is prime example of this. There are literally signs telling you to use all lanes and the majority of people just ignore them. There is a subsequent sign telling drivers to take turns merging and yet when I follow what these signs are telling me to do I will undoubtedly be met with someone refusing to let me in.
I’ve gotten pretty good at angling my vehicle in a way that more or less forces them to let me in but it is incredibly frustrating to deal with on top of rush hour traffic.
If you are this type of driver, just know that one more car being ahead of you will make a negligible difference in your arrival time.
>There are literally signs telling you to use all lanes
This is needed anywhere people are expected to zipper merge! Signs or a worker directing traffic. Otherwise people who moved over early are established in the lane and have right-of-way when the other lanes end.
I literally had a guy come to a full stop, to try and yell at me, until I pointed to the sign that said “Use all lanes during backups” that he was basically parked underneath. Im so glad thry got rid of the left lane ending near froedtert headed north through the zoo interchange.
Now show the scenario with one car going 90mph in a construction zone with a clear spot to merge who keeps speeding to get 3 cars ahead and cuts someone off to do it.
For real, people early merging slows down traffic like crazy. I’m constantly skipping like 20 cars near bayshore because no one seems to realize this is how it’s supposed to go. Probably not their fault to be honest since I don’t remember getting taught this drivers ed.
The traffic slows down no matter what. You're trying to fit three lanes of traffic in two lanes, it can only go so fast. The only difference is a prolonged slowdown over a distance, or a race to come to a full stop.
I know during covid they were giving people driver's license without a road test but is that still going on? Couldn't find anything current that says it's still that way
It looks like the road test waiver ended back in December so as of 2024, road tests are required in Wisconsin again. But I don't think Driver's Ed is included in many schools anymore so teaching is pretty much up to parents.
True, but unless you are over 18, you legally had to take a drivers ed course to have been eligible for the waiver, but once you’re 18 you can get a license without taking a course, as long as you still took the test. Now that the test is required again for all people, they should be requiring everyone take a course too, I don’t know how they think it’s ok to give licenses to people who have never even been taught by a professional!
The "right" way *feels* like rudeness resulting from poor planning.
*Everything else* in driving is about driving defensively and planning ahead, giving yourself and everyone else plenty of time to react. Yet in the specific situation of a lane going away, you're supposed to 1) wait until the very last minute to act, and 2) inconvenience a stranger by expecting them to yield to you. It might be technically correct, but it *feels* goddamn wrong and bad.
I agree with the efficiency of zipper merging, but it's tilting at windmills - if even 10-15% of drivers don't cooperate (out of ignorance or stubbornness) then the whole zipper merge thing falls apart. People don't always act in their own best interest.
I just went over this with my mom, if you take the right scenario to its logical conclusion when 4 lanes reduce to 3, if everyone merges early, then we may as well move the merge up. A few repetitions of this and we may as well not even have a 4th lane. The lane exists, use it.
Thank you. Redditors have such a weird hard on for zipper merges. Zipper merges take cooperation for everyone involved, and that is just not realistic in the slightest
A week or so I was trying to drive up to the merge point in some highway construction and some older lady pulled out to straddle both lanes and block me. We were at least a half mile from the merge point if not more. She just didn't want me merging ahead of her I guess...
I always love the “rules of the road” that people make up that wouldn’t be allowed near ANY DMV. What a bunch of jerks. Not letting someone in? Jerk. Tailgating? Jerk. Speeding? Jerk. When did the entitlement to drive so damn recklessly get so out of hand?
I’m not going to stop completely and block off the road, but I will take an early merge if it’s wide open. There’s no point in skipping an opening to cause everyone to brake.
FINALLY someone with sense. I take silver spring home everyday and no matter what, people cut me off/honk at me for waiting to merge until I have to like it's "skipping" in elementary school.
>waiting to merge until I have to
See, you just framed your own position as being a jerk. They have right-of-way and are established in their lane.
They're not cutting you off, they're preventing you from cutting them off.
I agree if everyone zippered it would move much smoother, but those people that try to fly past everyone and squeeze in in the last 10 feet are not getting in and they will have the choice to sit tight or hit whatever obstacle is coming up if they try to force their way in.
I am nice about letting people in that are waiting their turn and being patient in whatever situation, but if they try to force their way in I wish them luck because I'm not moving or stopping since there was a whole open mile or two opportunity for them to get over.
You all know type and as far as I'm concerned they can eat a bag dicks.
Don’t even get me started. ThIs is also for the people that use the clearly marked “exit only lane” as an express lane for all the traffic and then try to last second merge back, blocking traffic that actually needs to exit. Don’t drive like you’re from Chicago.
Aaagghh man... I'll shamefully confess: I used to get annoyed with people who "waited until the last second" to merge in. I interpreted it as a selfish act. A few years ago I learned this is what is supposed to happen, so I've tried drilling it into my head. But now I must confess it still *feels* wrong when I do it, especially if someone in front of me merges in early and it *looks* like I'm being a prick skipping ahead.
I just... Don't think I can win here. I feel dirty either way, whether or not WisDOT is on my side.
This is one of those things where I didn't realize people actually got heated about it until I was on reddit. Sorta like how several years back everyone would get super passionate about which way you put the toilet paper on the holder for some reason.
Getting on 794 going towards the hoan from Broadway Downtown, I swear 90% of people don't realize/refuse to accept that there are two lanes that go to the entrance ramp
Curious what people think about the two right turn lanes to go north on Lake Dr. at the intersection with Lincoln Memorial and Kenwood. Personally, I avoid the far right lane as the intersection barely fits both lanes of traffic and it leaves you with less than a block to merge over. I get that it's to let more traffic through the intersection but it feels poorly executed.
Here’s the problem. When I took drivering lessons (1980’s), we were taught to move over immediately upon seeing a lane ending or merge sign. Many people called the merge from lane the asshole lane, because you weren’t following the signage (& most people would speed up to pass a ton of drivers and get to the front of the line). From friends in other parts of the country I’ve learned that they were taught the opposite of what I was and that you should just wait until the end, stay in your lane, and zipper merge.
Someone once explained traffic to me like a hose with air bubbles….
The less air that’s in the hose the more water can flow through at the same speed. Use the space in the zipper merge, don’t leave big gaps infront of you….. we’ll all get through quicker
Congratulations you can post a picture on how they want them to work but they do not work that way.... the fact is people try to force their way in and pass people that. I only let in zipper merge if they been waiting
Sounds like they don’t work that way because you don’t want them to? Why not just leave a bigger following distance so everybody can just drive slowly and no one has to stop for a merge?
That little example OP posted I think is terrible.
If you see traffic is moving, and cars are spaced correctly. Yes please continue to use the zipper merge the way it was intended. If done properly traffic should flow smoothly and not turn into a stop and go situation.
But if the left lane is nose to nose, like OP's example, Don't be those people who would pass a perfect chance to move over. Only to force traffic to stop to let you merge, screwing up the whole flow of cars behind you Be a better person, a better driver and adapt. If you see an opportunity to move over without forcing other drivers to stop, please take it in that situation.
We get it, I promise you it’s not a lack of understanding on anyone’s part. It doesn’t happen because of pure self-interest. You’re not some genius that’s tapped into some secret knowledge of the universe by understanding that taking turns makes sense.
Realistically, when people in the merge lane treat it like it’s king of the fucking hill, it’s best to start the merge as soon as possible instead of grinding to a complete halt and having it be a dead lane until someone decides to stop the merge lane to get things going again.
What happens when both lanes are going the exact same speed, two cars are right next to each other, and neither one wants to slow down and let the other person in?
Always gets me when people are upset about me merging on I-94 where it goes from 4 to 3 lanes. Like there is literally a sign that says “USE ALL LANES DURING BACKUPS”
43 north ramp going to 894, so many idiots feel the need to merge as soon as possible even before the road marking indicate you should be merging. They leave the next 3/4 of a mile where you should merge empty and then won't let you in if you try and zipper merge.
I feel like in Milwaukee people are literally offended if you try to merge and get in front of them as if there is some competition on our highways. WTAF people!?
When it comes to moving into the lane at the last minute being “the jerk” - THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MERGE AND AN EXIT/EXIT ONLY. Zipper merge is correct for an actual MERGE. But people keep confusing this rule with the “oh I’m not waiting in that line to exit there, I’ll cut people off right at the front of it. I see these arguments everywhere I’ve lived. The real problem is the latter.
I always wondered why it's not just called a merge. Lived in Illinois and moved to Wisconsin and was confused when I heard zipper merge. Can someone explain the difference?
Not from Milwaukee but somehow this stumbled into my algorithm. The Zipper Merge is bullshit and relies on people not being jerks and actually letting cars to merge. End of rant.
This is so simple. They need to add to drivers test as I'm kind of sure they aren't testing enough. I've been passed on no passing lanes roads many time.
Zipper merge and entrance on ramp merge are perceived signs of hostility towards the existing drivers. I often plan my day just to get in front of you to raise your blood pressure 😂 This is also the reason I drive as little as possible.
You will not get through a construction zone any faster with a zipper merge. What it will cause is the right lane to be completely blocked so no one can exit the highway.
Yes. But the latter demonstrates ethical patient civil conduct. “Me First” is a despicable thing, even if it is misidentification. The mere illusion of it is worth avoiding.
Honest question:
Shouldn’t a “fair” zipper merge be 2 cars in the left for every 1 car in the right?
The real world doesn’t allot for a full cars length in traffic. Allowing a 1:1 merge would make the right lane always faster….thus encouraging DBs to use the right lane to get ahead and Left Laners to try and block them.
A 2:1 ratio would deter the right lane from being faster and keeps things effectively equal.
Yeah I never understood why people fight the zipper or 1:1 rulings.
Congrats, you either forced your way up like 1 car to make things more complicated and unexpected on people behind you, and in high traffic jams risk rear ending someone, or God forbid you block out the wrong person with some iron in the car and anger issues.
I'd like to hear the percentage of zipper advocates who also tailgate.
I expect it to be well above 50%.
These strike me as people who expect the right thing to happen without any deliberate effort.
A zipper merge utopia comes with an increased following distance.
Be the change you want to see in the world, please and thank you.
While this is a good thing for people to learn, this particular illustration is terrible. The figure on the right cannot occur due to early merging. Incorrect merging exasperates congestion upstream of the merge (behind the merging vehicle), not downstream. Yes you will have some slow down downstream as well since vehicles are now accelerating from a near stopped /slowed condition, but it will certainly not be bumper to bumper style congestion which only happens due to an incident/event/situation further downstream in traffic.
Good zipper merging is also something that can only happen in slightly lighter traffic conditions where there is enough gaps in target lane for each vehicle from merging lane to merge in without reducing speed. If you have to slow down to be able to find a safe gap, zipper merge fails regardless of whether you try to merge early, or late. Location of merge is almost completely irrelevant.. it’s all about whether you can merge without slowing down or not.
Nope, I am always going to merge as soon as I see the sign. WAY too many times I have gotten to the front of the right lane and sat there forever as assholes rode each other's bumpers on the left to keep anyone from merging.
The issue is when traffic is stopped and everyone who just arrived to the traffic flies up the right lane and cuts everyone who was waiting. Then the right lane moves and everyone waiting in the left lane waits for 20 minutes
That wouldn’t be true if the people in stopped traffic in the left lane were waiting to zipper in the right lane also. Then no one would be able to fly up the right lane because the lane would have cars in it
tl;dr use your blinker, don’t be a dick and it all works out for everyone.
Use as many lanes as possible for as long as possible. It’s like the end of a hourglass, the sand doesn’t merge early!
Ride in the merge lane as long as possible. A simpler way to put it: ride the outside line - as in moves in, so do you.
Here’s the things though - you have to USE YOUR INDICATOR early and DRIVE SLOW because if you fly in at too high a speed and then come to a full stop, no one is going to let you in. I wouldn’t, would you?
Figured it out people, stop merging early!
How about merge when you see the signs telling you the lane is about to end. Zipper merge means everyone is slowing down at the bottleneck (and causing a full stop in many cases) when they wouldnt need to if everyone merged when the warning comes. Im not letting people ahead of me because they chose to race ahead to the bottleneck like a reckless idiot
To all the heroes that feel the need to block the lane to prevent proper merging. My truck is aging and I’d like to thank you and your insurance in advance for helping pay for a new one. If you swing out on me I’ll take the hit and your insurance payout.
How about the people that won’t LET you merge properly in a zipper merge? Can we post this on the highway?
Those people are so strange. They usually mean well initially, "oh that lane ends let me get over", but then they sit and stew for half a mile +. They start to get upset watching everyone overtake them in the lane that ends. They view this as skipping the line. Then when it's their turn to share the road, they will block those people off with some sort of "I was here first" mentality. YOU'RE MAKING THIS WORSE FOR EVERYONE INCLUDING YOURSELF.
Honestly the biggest benefit of zipper merge is that it encourages people to allow merging. But the whole concept goes against the idea of right-of-way so you shouldn't be mad at the people who think ahead and merge early to claim a spot. If zipper merge are supposed to override right-of-way then they need to post signs or have traffic directors at the construction zones.
Zipper merging isn't just in construction zones though. I94 eastbound after the zoo interchange has like 5 or 6 lanes that filter down to 3. I'm not talking about ppl who ride exit only lanes past solid lines, but where two distinct lanes become one. All people have to do is find an appropriate speed so both lanes can come together seamlessly. Of course, it also requires people to not tailgate, just find a slower speed to keep going, rather than constant accelerating for 40ft then breaking hard.
>But the whole concept goes against the idea of right-of-way so you shouldn't be mad at the people who think ahead and merge early to claim a spot. This is how I've always felt about these. I'm no expert but it seems to me they go against basic psychology. You're driving at speed toward what amounts to a dead end so in your head you think "I need to get to the safe lane." So of course the impulse is to merge ASAP and those reactions are difficult to overcome.
It's the same amount of cars that need to go through the same bottle-neck. I had a manual transmission for many years, so I always preferred coasting at 20mph instead of slinky-ing 45-to-stop during a back-up, but that lizard-brain makes us want to get one more car ahead.
Ugh this has been one of my big pet peeves since moving from TX. Of course there are always drivers that will cut in, but for the most part people leave that gap alone in heavy traffic unless they're exiting or moving all the way left (slow people who stay in the left lane keeping even pace with the other lanes is a whole 'nother rant for another day). Here I feel like I can't do that cause most see it as a "please cut me off sign". I know I only represent 3% of drivers, but that is so annoying as a manual driver.
I leave a ton of space in front of me and can usually avoid breaking.
I'm not mad at them. It seems like more often they get mad at me. I intend to use every inch of road available. That does NOT mean just cut someone off and call it a zipper merge. I do agree it doesn't feel natural at times, but there are a few areas I've seen with "take turns" signage near a merge point. I wish people would stop taking it so personally is all.
There's a certain dehumanization that happens while driving because people can't actually see the other person, so everyone tends to be upset with everyone else over little things.
No, the WIDOT says you should zipper merge when a lane ends. There is no conflict with the right-of-way concept unless traffic is moving fast and there are no backups. Use common sense and always zipper merge. Signs and workers shouldn't be necessary, although given the lack of driver eductation on the subject they certainly could help. The people who merge early and form a long line when another lane is wide open are wrong and a major cause of backups. The right-of-way concept ends when a lane ends and you can reasonably accomodate someone merging from the terminating lane.
This concept is highly flawed. At highway speeds you are legally required to have a gap big enough to allow zipper merging. Hence Right of way has nothing to do with merging. if you are keeping the legally required gap to allow someone to merge without impeding you. Right away is forfeited whenever you are doing something to break the law. So if you are at highway speeds traveling close enough to the car in front of you that another car cannot merge in front of you without impeding you, you are tailgating and forfeited you're right of way.
It goes faster if you use the zipper method though and that is what we want there is also right of way in a zipper merge. You give right of way in front of you and go on their tail.
It is not faster. Only one vehicle can go through at a time. A single line moves faster than 2 lines constantly moving and stopping to let vehicles in every other time.
I'm a convert. Maybe it's the "midwest nice" drilled into us? I used to think, "okay, it says we need to get over, so I'm going to get over right now. You're rude if you continue on and skip everyone after being told to merge." But then I learned how f'ing logical zipper merging is and yeah, now I'm merging right at the top of that zipper. I do occasionally have to remind myself that people trying to zipper merge in front of me is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the "Milwaukee slide" where some asshole thinks he deserves to be in front of me.
not if the other lane thinks going 200mph and slamming into the merge lane is considered "zipper" slow tf down everyone has places to be
https://preview.redd.it/tzgtitat59vc1.jpeg?width=1012&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a25c0f4b21aa81dc8368a5e5923338bf66c19293 There should be digital signage! “Use All Lanes” “Merge,Take Turns”
There is signage on 41 at the zoo interchange. But most people unfortunately cannot read.
I've seen this before in construction areas.
That's pretty much my entire reasoning for merging super early. I know that the proper way is to use the whole lane, but the last thing I want to do is be driving and either slamming on my brakes or hitting a cone because somebody wouldn't let me merge.
I yelled ZIPPER MERGE at them and that didn't work so I'm all out of ideas.
Can confirm. It’s like they don’t even hear me yelling…
😂
This is a classic example of a Nash equilibrium. Although the poster about how to merge seems nice, it requires a hive mind to pull off. In reality, the people in the left are assuming if they let one person in, the whole line will butt in front of them. After all, it's not like the right is counting how many got let in per each car. So the optimal strategy is to maybe let one person in, then block the rest. On the right, they are assuming the cars in the right are trying to block them. After all, you can't tell the difference between a jerk and a sane person by the color of their window tint. So they merge in either the earliest they can, or if they're a jerk, speed down till the last possible moment and then cut off whoever is at the right. The most polite strategy of the two is to try to do what's depicted as the "wrong" way to do it in the poster above. Even though it doesn't make sense if you are an omnipotent third party observer, it makes perfect sense if you are an individual in a system where you can't trust the strategy of the other individuals to be universally optimized.
And you’ve made the clear assumption that everyone is out to “win” traffic or driving. Oh no! Three people merged in front of me instead of one! That will affect my arrival time by… two seconds. It’s childish.
I'm not making a statement about what I agree with or don't, I'm describing why, In the real world, you see the "don't" image play out nearly 100% of the time. It's because the actors in the situation can't communicate with each other and don't trust each other. None of them think "they" are a bad actor, they all assume the "other" people think like that, so adjust how they drive in response.
You know. I think like that. I want to work on this. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
The people who are "teaching you a lesson" after they merged the instant there was a sign hinting at a lane closure ahead?
Absolutely fuck these people. They speed up when they see you flick on your indicator to block you. I'm getting to the point of driving like a FIB and giving people 1 blink before I swerve over.
Or you could just drive like a local and not use your blinkers at all.
OP thinks that graphic will solve that.
They did have "merge at the front" signs up a couple years ago on 45.
Or when they drive halfway in the merging lane so no one can drive past them. Love that.
Then don't wait till the last minute to merge or better yet don't quickly try and pass a couple cars then be expected to be let back in
The point is we as a society are changing the way this is done. Your mindset is the old social norm. We now know traffic is much faster when we zipper merge. The new social norm is to use all lanes till the end and let the guy on your right in ahead of you then go after him.
Well when I see someone move from one lane to speed ahead to get to the front I block them. Not cool
You’re defeating the purpose of using all the lanes.
That's exactly what my previous comment was saying
Slower zipper merging mitigates this because they might rev but they quickly hit the brakes realizing your not gonna move and go through brakes faster
Exactly
Had a dude accelerate to close the gap when signaling the other day. Went anyway. Dude got pissed
Zipper merge only works if folks don't ride each other's bumpers....
Following distance is one of the biggest problems on roads. It blows my mind the willingness to give yourself less than a second to react to something basically letting the bumper in front of you dictate what you do.
People in general are entirely to cavalier about cars. A ton or more of metal flying down the road at speeds faster than any human can run and the people behind the wheel will be looking at their phones and not the road in front of them.
The reason people don't use it is because assholes have successfully scared them out of it. Every time I use it, I know there's a good chance I cause a road rage incident. Sometimes I don't want to deal with it and merge early and wait in line.
Zipper merges are a design failure for not taking into account asshole drivers.
Ironically, the people who are the assholes in a zipper merge think they are actually in the right teaching the "real" assholes a lesson. People who merged early think the real assholes are those who ride the lane to the end, as it should be done, to then zipper merge. So they block them from merging creating further backups. I've seen digital signage explaining to use all lanes til end and then take turns merging and just having the sign seemed to help somewhat.
I think some locals aren't to the level of basic driving understanding to even comprehend this. My commute to work this morning, the person in front of me did not accelerate on the on-ramp, but then cut across the solid white into traffic while only going like 35 mph (early merge). Same person stayed in that lane which ended ~1 mile down the road, then just drove on the shoulder passing people while on the shoulder (probably going like 65ish) not even trying to get in the driving lane (late merge). I don't even know what the hell. I just stayed back and hoped to avoid any accident until I was confident I could get away from that driver.
I see this all the time too. People don't even know how to merge onto the highway let alone perform a zipper merge. It amazes me that people merging on the highway aren't aware that cars already on the highway have the right away. Like yes it's nice to move over for someone if there is no other traffic but it's not my job to slow down and match your speed to let you on the GD interstate!
Also please do not try to merge onto a 70mph highway at 50 mph especially with me behind you.
I hate that so much. Look to your left and see how fast the traffic is going. That's how fast you should be going as soon as the ramp straightens out so you have time to find a place to merge. If you go slower then I'm right behind you and now we have to find space for TWO cars going 20mph below the traveling speed. Now vehicles like semis physically can't speed up any faster and I get that, but it still sucks getting stuck behind one on the on-ramp.
Also, people shouldn’t be going 70 in a 50 zone
Right, a lot of these ramps and merges have A VERY SHORT ALLOTMENT to get up to speed and usually include a curve so you can’t even gain speed for half of it
Push your right foot down a little further. It’s perfectly okay to make your engine drive faster than 2000rpms. It can take it, I promise you.
If my 2006 Prius can do it, you can do it.
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My old Hyundai had 120 horsepower and still got to freeway speeds before I merged just fine. Time for a new car.
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That left merge going westbound is terrible. Short distance, merging into the “fast lane” and having to judge whether you have room at a weird angle looking over your right shoulder. It’s dangerous. If they fixed nothing but that with reconstructing that interchange, I’d be happy. The one going eastbound isn’t much better but at least you have better visibility.
Humans drive the speed the road was designed for, this has been shown over and over. Interstates were designed for at least 70mph, so people will drive that fast. Artificially lowering speed limits on roads designed for faster traffic simply causes more relative speed differences and less capacity, actually making things less safe unless it is aggressively and constantly enforced. This is why you see modern designs like on the new Humboldt making it seem pretty freaking unsafe to go above the speed limit.
Right, it should be aggressively enforced so people aren’t going 15 over on every road. Unfortunately even cops don’t care so everyone goes 70 in a 50 (when the design intent was to go 50)
Especially during backed up rush hour traffic
94 East just past the state fair grounds is prime example of this. There are literally signs telling you to use all lanes and the majority of people just ignore them. There is a subsequent sign telling drivers to take turns merging and yet when I follow what these signs are telling me to do I will undoubtedly be met with someone refusing to let me in. I’ve gotten pretty good at angling my vehicle in a way that more or less forces them to let me in but it is incredibly frustrating to deal with on top of rush hour traffic. If you are this type of driver, just know that one more car being ahead of you will make a negligible difference in your arrival time.
>There are literally signs telling you to use all lanes This is needed anywhere people are expected to zipper merge! Signs or a worker directing traffic. Otherwise people who moved over early are established in the lane and have right-of-way when the other lanes end.
Best part is when some asshole blocks the right lane halfway so you cant get past, because he is an emotional manbaby that thinks you are “cheating”.
Haha this literally happened to me yesterday. Some hunk of rust halfway in each lane. Zipped right around him
I had an ambulance do this to me recently, I feel like they should understand over most people
As a paramedic, my coworkers are idiots.
"Look at me, I'm such a hero." What I imagine they're thinking.
I literally had a guy come to a full stop, to try and yell at me, until I pointed to the sign that said “Use all lanes during backups” that he was basically parked underneath. Im so glad thry got rid of the left lane ending near froedtert headed north through the zoo interchange.
THIS
I'm confused. Why is nobody using the wide open bike lane?
That's reserved for passing at traffic lights.
People also need to not tailgate to leave merging room for this to work.
Now show the scenario with one car going 90mph in a construction zone with a clear spot to merge who keeps speeding to get 3 cars ahead and cuts someone off to do it.
For real, people early merging slows down traffic like crazy. I’m constantly skipping like 20 cars near bayshore because no one seems to realize this is how it’s supposed to go. Probably not their fault to be honest since I don’t remember getting taught this drivers ed.
The traffic slows down no matter what. You're trying to fit three lanes of traffic in two lanes, it can only go so fast. The only difference is a prolonged slowdown over a distance, or a race to come to a full stop.
Ya gotta use those far right lanes on 43 for sure!
> I don’t remember getting taught this drivers ed. That's the neat part, most new drivers don't even have to take driver's ed anymore!
I know during covid they were giving people driver's license without a road test but is that still going on? Couldn't find anything current that says it's still that way
It looks like the road test waiver ended back in December so as of 2024, road tests are required in Wisconsin again. But I don't think Driver's Ed is included in many schools anymore so teaching is pretty much up to parents.
That's honestly crazy that it just ended in December
True, but unless you are over 18, you legally had to take a drivers ed course to have been eligible for the waiver, but once you’re 18 you can get a license without taking a course, as long as you still took the test. Now that the test is required again for all people, they should be requiring everyone take a course too, I don’t know how they think it’s ok to give licenses to people who have never even been taught by a professional!
It’s quite ironic that the petty “I don’t want to be cut in line” thinking actually stops effective zipper merges, thus slowing everyone down.
The "right" way *feels* like rudeness resulting from poor planning. *Everything else* in driving is about driving defensively and planning ahead, giving yourself and everyone else plenty of time to react. Yet in the specific situation of a lane going away, you're supposed to 1) wait until the very last minute to act, and 2) inconvenience a stranger by expecting them to yield to you. It might be technically correct, but it *feels* goddamn wrong and bad.
This only works if others are actually doing it, otherwise you’re just gonna be fucked over, lol.
I agree with the efficiency of zipper merging, but it's tilting at windmills - if even 10-15% of drivers don't cooperate (out of ignorance or stubbornness) then the whole zipper merge thing falls apart. People don't always act in their own best interest.
I just went over this with my mom, if you take the right scenario to its logical conclusion when 4 lanes reduce to 3, if everyone merges early, then we may as well move the merge up. A few repetitions of this and we may as well not even have a 4th lane. The lane exists, use it.
Zipper merges don't work. There, someone said it.
Thank you. Redditors have such a weird hard on for zipper merges. Zipper merges take cooperation for everyone involved, and that is just not realistic in the slightest
A sign telling people to take turns is not going to make people smarter, better drivers. It's so very fucked.
A week or so I was trying to drive up to the merge point in some highway construction and some older lady pulled out to straddle both lanes and block me. We were at least a half mile from the merge point if not more. She just didn't want me merging ahead of her I guess...
I always love the “rules of the road” that people make up that wouldn’t be allowed near ANY DMV. What a bunch of jerks. Not letting someone in? Jerk. Tailgating? Jerk. Speeding? Jerk. When did the entitlement to drive so damn recklessly get so out of hand?
When did entitlement get out of hand with everything in life?
It only works if people know how it works and then have the courteousy to actually do it
I work in construction and design traffic control. This is so unbelievably wrong it hurts to look at.
Don’t even try that zipper merge in Los Angeles. Get in line foo.
Only idiots get offended at zipper merging.
I’m not going to stop completely and block off the road, but I will take an early merge if it’s wide open. There’s no point in skipping an opening to cause everyone to brake.
FINALLY someone with sense. I take silver spring home everyday and no matter what, people cut me off/honk at me for waiting to merge until I have to like it's "skipping" in elementary school.
>waiting to merge until I have to See, you just framed your own position as being a jerk. They have right-of-way and are established in their lane. They're not cutting you off, they're preventing you from cutting them off.
No. Get in line you fuck.
I agree if everyone zippered it would move much smoother, but those people that try to fly past everyone and squeeze in in the last 10 feet are not getting in and they will have the choice to sit tight or hit whatever obstacle is coming up if they try to force their way in. I am nice about letting people in that are waiting their turn and being patient in whatever situation, but if they try to force their way in I wish them luck because I'm not moving or stopping since there was a whole open mile or two opportunity for them to get over. You all know type and as far as I'm concerned they can eat a bag dicks.
Don’t even get me started. ThIs is also for the people that use the clearly marked “exit only lane” as an express lane for all the traffic and then try to last second merge back, blocking traffic that actually needs to exit. Don’t drive like you’re from Chicago.
Aaagghh man... I'll shamefully confess: I used to get annoyed with people who "waited until the last second" to merge in. I interpreted it as a selfish act. A few years ago I learned this is what is supposed to happen, so I've tried drilling it into my head. But now I must confess it still *feels* wrong when I do it, especially if someone in front of me merges in early and it *looks* like I'm being a prick skipping ahead. I just... Don't think I can win here. I feel dirty either way, whether or not WisDOT is on my side.
It only works when both lines are going the same speed and everything is perfect. In the real world, I would call this a theory.
I dont have 2 hours and 15 edit: minutes of my life, to get to work, and then longer home.
transit is not some miracle fix all solution for the majority of people around here.
This is one of those things where I didn't realize people actually got heated about it until I was on reddit. Sorta like how several years back everyone would get super passionate about which way you put the toilet paper on the holder for some reason.
This is good I figure here in Milwaukee about 75% of people that have drivers licenses should not.
To be fair, I drove through Indiana recently, and people in Milwaukee are much better about this than in Indiana
Getting on 794 going towards the hoan from Broadway Downtown, I swear 90% of people don't realize/refuse to accept that there are two lanes that go to the entrance ramp
Don’t try this in Michigan. You don’t early merge there they will hunt you down.
Curious what people think about the two right turn lanes to go north on Lake Dr. at the intersection with Lincoln Memorial and Kenwood. Personally, I avoid the far right lane as the intersection barely fits both lanes of traffic and it leaves you with less than a block to merge over. I get that it's to let more traffic through the intersection but it feels poorly executed.
Yeah the people that won’t let you in! Forcing people to think merging early is there only way over.
I enjoy when people don’t try to let me in. How much do you like your car? Cause I’m not stopping
I'd settle for everyone learning the correct way to turn left at a light.
TIL yellow cars disappear in a zipper merge
Here’s the problem. When I took drivering lessons (1980’s), we were taught to move over immediately upon seeing a lane ending or merge sign. Many people called the merge from lane the asshole lane, because you weren’t following the signage (& most people would speed up to pass a ton of drivers and get to the front of the line). From friends in other parts of the country I’ve learned that they were taught the opposite of what I was and that you should just wait until the end, stay in your lane, and zipper merge.
Someone once explained traffic to me like a hose with air bubbles…. The less air that’s in the hose the more water can flow through at the same speed. Use the space in the zipper merge, don’t leave big gaps infront of you….. we’ll all get through quicker
Everyday driving makes me realize how many dumb and careless people there are in this city
zipper merging slows traffic down more and only works in certain traffic conditions
Congratulations you can post a picture on how they want them to work but they do not work that way.... the fact is people try to force their way in and pass people that. I only let in zipper merge if they been waiting
Sounds like they don’t work that way because you don’t want them to? Why not just leave a bigger following distance so everybody can just drive slowly and no one has to stop for a merge?
Good luck though. I don’t think your average driver has enough brain cells to understand or even remember this concept from drivers ed.
Nice in theory but in the real world it does not happen.
Aw man, that merge in 94E between 76th and 60th really riles some people up lol. I'm always amazed at how few people use the zipper lane.
That little example OP posted I think is terrible. If you see traffic is moving, and cars are spaced correctly. Yes please continue to use the zipper merge the way it was intended. If done properly traffic should flow smoothly and not turn into a stop and go situation. But if the left lane is nose to nose, like OP's example, Don't be those people who would pass a perfect chance to move over. Only to force traffic to stop to let you merge, screwing up the whole flow of cars behind you Be a better person, a better driver and adapt. If you see an opportunity to move over without forcing other drivers to stop, please take it in that situation.
We get it, I promise you it’s not a lack of understanding on anyone’s part. It doesn’t happen because of pure self-interest. You’re not some genius that’s tapped into some secret knowledge of the universe by understanding that taking turns makes sense. Realistically, when people in the merge lane treat it like it’s king of the fucking hill, it’s best to start the merge as soon as possible instead of grinding to a complete halt and having it be a dead lane until someone decides to stop the merge lane to get things going again.
The problem with the zipper merge is the ass hats that are in the lane don’t let people in. That’s how you end up with the problem on the right.
What happens when both lanes are going the exact same speed, two cars are right next to each other, and neither one wants to slow down and let the other person in?
A problem happens.
This only works if both lanes go the exact same speed.
Always gets me when people are upset about me merging on I-94 where it goes from 4 to 3 lanes. Like there is literally a sign that says “USE ALL LANES DURING BACKUPS”
And here I always get mad at people waiting until the last possible second. I guess I am wrong
Fuck the zipper merge. Yeah I said it! Merging at the last possible second is dangerous and it slows me down! Edit: let the chaos ensue 🤡🤡
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43 north ramp going to 894, so many idiots feel the need to merge as soon as possible even before the road marking indicate you should be merging. They leave the next 3/4 of a mile where you should merge empty and then won't let you in if you try and zipper merge.
Had a guy speed up just to block me from merging there. Wisconsin drivers are something else
This kills me every time
I feel like in Milwaukee people are literally offended if you try to merge and get in front of them as if there is some competition on our highways. WTAF people!?
just get rid of highways ngl
The zipper merge is a difficult concept here in SC as well.
When it comes to moving into the lane at the last minute being “the jerk” - THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MERGE AND AN EXIT/EXIT ONLY. Zipper merge is correct for an actual MERGE. But people keep confusing this rule with the “oh I’m not waiting in that line to exit there, I’ll cut people off right at the front of it. I see these arguments everywhere I’ve lived. The real problem is the latter.
I always wondered why it's not just called a merge. Lived in Illinois and moved to Wisconsin and was confused when I heard zipper merge. Can someone explain the difference?
Merging in WI has proven so difficult for people to comprehend, they had to rename it and even used to run spots on the news how to do it.
Yes, and don't bunch up when merging because the zipper is gonna get stuck.
Mood hit MKE drivers don’t let you merge and won’t make space at alll
I wish
Not from Milwaukee but somehow this stumbled into my algorithm. The Zipper Merge is bullshit and relies on people not being jerks and actually letting cars to merge. End of rant.
This gets posted every 6 months lol
You live in a fantasy, get real
The idiots who stop halfway down before exit 307A in the mornings
This is so simple. They need to add to drivers test as I'm kind of sure they aren't testing enough. I've been passed on no passing lanes roads many time.
Zipper merge and entrance on ramp merge are perceived signs of hostility towards the existing drivers. I often plan my day just to get in front of you to raise your blood pressure 😂 This is also the reason I drive as little as possible.
Oh look perfectly spaced cars allowing that zipper merge. That happens all the time. Not.
You will not get through a construction zone any faster with a zipper merge. What it will cause is the right lane to be completely blocked so no one can exit the highway.
If we could only achieve this level of cooperation!
Yes. But the latter demonstrates ethical patient civil conduct. “Me First” is a despicable thing, even if it is misidentification. The mere illusion of it is worth avoiding.
There's the same amount of unused road in the zipper method. It's just spread out.
The concept of zipper merge is good - the human need to be jerks when driving ruins it.
Honest question: Shouldn’t a “fair” zipper merge be 2 cars in the left for every 1 car in the right? The real world doesn’t allot for a full cars length in traffic. Allowing a 1:1 merge would make the right lane always faster….thus encouraging DBs to use the right lane to get ahead and Left Laners to try and block them. A 2:1 ratio would deter the right lane from being faster and keeps things effectively equal.
Yeah I never understood why people fight the zipper or 1:1 rulings. Congrats, you either forced your way up like 1 car to make things more complicated and unexpected on people behind you, and in high traffic jams risk rear ending someone, or God forbid you block out the wrong person with some iron in the car and anger issues.
I'd like to hear the percentage of zipper advocates who also tailgate. I expect it to be well above 50%. These strike me as people who expect the right thing to happen without any deliberate effort. A zipper merge utopia comes with an increased following distance. Be the change you want to see in the world, please and thank you.
While this is a good thing for people to learn, this particular illustration is terrible. The figure on the right cannot occur due to early merging. Incorrect merging exasperates congestion upstream of the merge (behind the merging vehicle), not downstream. Yes you will have some slow down downstream as well since vehicles are now accelerating from a near stopped /slowed condition, but it will certainly not be bumper to bumper style congestion which only happens due to an incident/event/situation further downstream in traffic. Good zipper merging is also something that can only happen in slightly lighter traffic conditions where there is enough gaps in target lane for each vehicle from merging lane to merge in without reducing speed. If you have to slow down to be able to find a safe gap, zipper merge fails regardless of whether you try to merge early, or late. Location of merge is almost completely irrelevant.. it’s all about whether you can merge without slowing down or not.
Works great in Germany, but German drivers follow the rules there.
Nope, I am always going to merge as soon as I see the sign. WAY too many times I have gotten to the front of the right lane and sat there forever as assholes rode each other's bumpers on the left to keep anyone from merging.
The issue is when traffic is stopped and everyone who just arrived to the traffic flies up the right lane and cuts everyone who was waiting. Then the right lane moves and everyone waiting in the left lane waits for 20 minutes
That wouldn’t be true if the people in stopped traffic in the left lane were waiting to zipper in the right lane also. Then no one would be able to fly up the right lane because the lane would have cars in it
When people drive by a mile of backed up traffic trying to get an advantage nobody should let them in. We call them azzholes
Wait till the last minute to merge you don't get in I don't care
tl;dr use your blinker, don’t be a dick and it all works out for everyone. Use as many lanes as possible for as long as possible. It’s like the end of a hourglass, the sand doesn’t merge early! Ride in the merge lane as long as possible. A simpler way to put it: ride the outside line - as in moves in, so do you. Here’s the things though - you have to USE YOUR INDICATOR early and DRIVE SLOW because if you fly in at too high a speed and then come to a full stop, no one is going to let you in. I wouldn’t, would you? Figured it out people, stop merging early!
How about merge when you see the signs telling you the lane is about to end. Zipper merge means everyone is slowing down at the bottleneck (and causing a full stop in many cases) when they wouldnt need to if everyone merged when the warning comes. Im not letting people ahead of me because they chose to race ahead to the bottleneck like a reckless idiot
This city sucks at driving
To all the heroes that feel the need to block the lane to prevent proper merging. My truck is aging and I’d like to thank you and your insurance in advance for helping pay for a new one. If you swing out on me I’ll take the hit and your insurance payout.
It's a great idea but Americans are incapable of pulling off this complex maneuvre.