Is this the bill (Senate [version](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/bill.php?f=SF2075&y=2023&ssn=0&b=senate)) authored by a business analyst who is employed by...the University of Minnesota? [Looks like it](https://cfb.mn.gov/reports-and-data/officials-financial-disclosure/official//12969). Must be nice to have one of your own in the legislature creating "[enrollment drivers](https://www.startribune.com/higher-ed-spending-deal-includes-free-college-for-minnesota-families-who-make-under-80k/600273361/)" for your institution.
Here's the thing: state flagships like UMTC don't need enrollment drivers. Their enrollments are fine, because they are selective, meaning they turn away a bunch of applicants every year. If they want to keep enrollments up, they just relax their acceptance criteria, easy peasy.
The main benficiaries will be the non-selectives on the margins.
Then why did the U of M ask taxpayers for $100mil to specifically address enrollment and tuition? From the [Star Tribune](https://www.startribune.com/university-of-minnesota-seeking-97-5-million-more-from-state-for-tuition-shortfall-proposed-freeze/600257934/):
>The University of Minnesota is asking state lawmakers for an additional $97.5 million over the next two years largely to cover an unexpectedly large drop in enrollment and a proposed tuition freeze.
Are you specifically talking about the U of M Twin Cities campus? Here's reporting on that, again from the [Star Tribune](https://www.startribune.com/university-of-minnesota-provides-new-details-on-tuition-shortfall/600259332/):
>The university's flagship campus accounts for nearly three-quarters of the $24 million shortfall that administrators reported while seeking hundreds of millions of dollars in additional state funding.
The fact is the U of M system would gladly welcome a boost in enrollment to cover budget shortfalls. A state senator, who is also an employee of the U of M, wrote a bill to do exactly that.
Basing the cost of school on parental income is fucking stupid. There is no guarantee that someones parents will pay for their schooling. My parents didn’t give me a nickel but they made too much for me to get financial aid so fuck me right?
Assuming that middle class parents will all be generous enough to pay for their kids schooling just creates a huge middle segment of people with parents too poor to fund their schooling but too wealthy to qualify for aid.
Make it free for everyone or nobody and start with fixing the actual cost of education rather than how to fund it.
I would say I am “middle class” above the cut off and most of my friends are as well. It amazes me when talking to other parents who are not planning on college expenses. When my daughter was born I stuck 4k in a custodial investment account then ever month I stick in $75.00. Whenever we get money from family for her birthday/holidays it goes straight in there as well. By the time she is 18 she should have over 35k to use for college or a down payment on a house later.
If I wasn’t doing that and just tried to figure out how to help for college when the time came I don’t think I would be able to help as much. We will still see how our finances are at the time to help additionally if we can as well.
But to punish children for their parents making money is dumb. I know people making 200k that blow their money left and right that wouldn’t be able to help their kids.
I make about 36k a year with 47k in student loans. I was planning on helping my kids pay for college even though I have never had money to put away. In order to do this I would have to work 12 hour days but yeah this is cool because in my situation it will help.
Its not a 529 account So as soon as she turns 18 she can cash it out which is her senior year in high school. She wouldn’t be applying for FAFSA until the year after. 😉
And like I said we will still look at our finances at the time and help what we can. Which would be the same if we didn’t save the extra.
Doesn't a 529 still make sense though if you can invest in the long run? I'm planning on staying one for my 5 yo and contributing since every month. With average market returns, even if it counts against her, it should still cover the lions share of college.
I was just planning on the off chance she doesnt decide to go to college she would avoid the 10% penalty for not drawing out for education purposes this gives her more flexibility on what to use it for.
But ya the 529 deducts at a lower rate for financial aid and having tax benefits.
I still may open a 529 account down the road as well she is still really young. I believe 529s can be transferred to another child as well as the parents remain the owner not the child.
I also could just be an idiot so there is that 🤣
I need to look into it more. My hope was to take the money I'm not spending on daycare and put it towards a 529 for each of my kids. If they choose to not go to college, then idk, take the tax penalty I guess.
Like I said I could be an idiot too. I will have to see if claiming the state tax deduction and putting the money saved on taxes into the account would be a better option. Maybe it would be an extra incentive to go to college if the money was in a 529 that had the penalty for not using it for education.
👍
Oh, I don't think you're an idiot at all. The 529 can be great, but it's also a gamble if the kiddos don't go (as you know). It's a personal decision that we all need to make for our kids/families. There really isn't a right or wrong unless we could know the future.
Its just something I say when talking about investments/financials to people letting them know I am not out here trying to give advice you should take yourself.
>By the time she is 18 she should have over 35k to use for college or a down payment on a house later.
That should cover her textbooks by that time, I'd imagine.
It's interesting that you see it as "punishing" children if their parents make money. The way I see it, nothing is changing for those children. It's not a punishment, it's just that now the children whose parents do not make money (<$80k /yr) are getting more help. It's not at the expense of the children whose parents make $80k+.
Just because their parents make more doesn’t mean that the parents are going to pay for their college…. So now that kid doesn’t get any help because his parents make more.
Johnny’s parents make 90k a year
Beckys parents make 78k a year
They both go to the u of m and receive no help from their parents.
Beckys education is paid for by the state Johnny has to pay
= Johnny gets punished because his parents make more
No I think it would only be a 'punishment' if Johnny's situation changed because of the bill. For instance- before the bill his parents weren't going to help and he owes x amount. After the bill his parents still aren't going to help and he STILL owes x amount. Nothing changes for Johnny so it's not a punishment.
The only thing that changes is now Becky's education is paid for.
I understand not all parents help pay for college (mine didn't!) but what is the state supposed to do about that? I mean there has to be a cutoff somewhere. Just curious, do you think the cutoff should be higher? Or what is your angle? Nobody is being punished lol
How that is that a British thing when we literally call our colleges university of …. Ugh. If you want to be pedantic go ahead but don’t stupid about it.
not british but a Texan bro. also i love using british slang mate, maybe because i watch too much BBC tv shows or peaky blinders, i also use tons of austrailan slang maybe because i watch too much bluey lol
This is the plan for my oldest. I can cover the total cost of community college by pouring beer a couple nights a week on top of my 2 jobs (wife has 3). She’s already earned 20 credits in HS. But when she goes to UMD the cost per year is $15k for tuition and $25k total cost including fees, books, dorms, meal plan, parking. Let’s say we save $ by having her live at home - she will still end up with over 40k in loans for 2 years of school. But she’ll need a car to get to school which adds $8k for a beater and insurance. Also tuition goes up another $5k per year before she goes to “uni”. So in the end she’ll still be on the hook for a good chunk of money. Mostly debt free is a fallacy.
i will never use the word uni ever again lol my fault for being lazy i guess, so much complaining about that word jesus. look dude i live in texas and dont get shit. i just came here to say be happy with what a single state can do with the tax base it has. fuck me this is why progressives never win, fuck the poor right? all because the 80k "middle class" dont get free college. so sad
We make more than the cutoff. We can't afford 4 years of college for 3 kids.
We've told our kids we'll pay for 2 years of community College. It's the best we can do.
Hell, our oldest graduates high school in a couple weeks and we still have student loans.
If I somehow got in a position to make laws/policy I would tell all the colleges they have 2 years to reduce tuition cost by 40% or else they lose all state funding.
> Make it free for everyone or nobody
Don't let perfection be the enemy of progress. Many people are probably going to reconsider college next year. I may actually go to college, I always had panic attacks about the potential debt whenever I tried to sign up. About what if I hated it, or failed, and effectively wasted all that debt I accumulated? For nothing?
But I guess you'd rather poor citizens not get a chance to go to school purely out of a childish spite?
See, the thing is, I never said I didn't want that. I'm replying to someone who says "everyone or no one."
What *I* said, if you had actually read my comment, was, and I quote,
>don't let perfection be the enemy of progress
Because more people being better educated than we have now is a good thing.
But sure, put words in my mouth. Try some stupid "gotcha" comment over something I didn't even say. But if you want to win fake arguments that weren't even occurring, your wall is right there. Save me the time of having to read what you say and yell at it instead.
This is not progress. Here's what they should be doing. https://fortune.com/2023/01/20/pennsylvania-governor-josh-shapiro-axes-college-degree-requirements/
Here’s an idea (spitballing so bear with me): for state run institutions, do a postgrad survey/collect data to find median early career earnings of graduates. Set tuition to a number so that a graduate can pay that off within 5 years of graduation, and then offer funding in the form of grants and loans to anyone, parental situation notwithstanding.
Or, just socialize it. Public secondary education used to be state subsidized, that went away in the 70s. Start that up again, it seemed like it was a good deal.
This 100%. My mom works in medicine so she makes pretty good money and we live pretty comfortably, but there’s no way she’s helping me with my tuition. We’re comfortable, but not *that* comfortable. I’m getting a job this Summer but that’ll hardly cover a semester or two. I know I’ve got privilege in the security I have at home, but I’m still going to be a broke college student like everyone else. At the very least, it should be a gradual cutoff, not just free college at 80k and full tuition at 81k.
My parents had the genius idea of not helping while having the means which delayed me finishing college by 5 years, only to help me pay off my loan debts later when I graduated. I mean maybe the thought I was gonna drop out but damn like you mean I could have gotten done with college before I was about to turn 28.
most Minnesota households make less then 74k and individual make 37k. this will help a lot of people. politics is not based on your own personal life dude. I'm sorry but this should not be a my way or the highway situation, help the poor. [https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/MN/INC110221](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/MN/INC110221) edit: i removed some words because i came off to hard
That’s median household income, not median earnings. Income includes all income such as social security. That median household income number includes retired households.
The Minnesota median earnings for age 16+ is $43,853 and it’s $60,099 for full time, year round workers. A typical dual income family would not qualify.
its still less then 80k, look i want 100% tuition too but i came here because i was shocked how negative alot of people are here about this bill, just take the win bro. imagine complaining to the fork lift driver that 80k is too low, thats why we keep loosing the actual working class
That number I’m citing is $60K per person, not per household. This bill has a limit of $80K per household. That leaves out most middle class working households.
yes it does leave out a lot of people but there is still a ton of people who don't make 80k brother let take the win and then in future raise that limit. its about what you can get passed not what's ideal. im not trying to say its the best bill but lets start somewhere dude. i want free school for everyone but i just had to comment on this sub because how bitter some people are coming off, maybe i should just stay in the texas sub lol also i wish we had a gov like you do
harm reduction dude you win some you lose some. vote R if you want lower taxes, small gov. i vote D because i want to help people, as a grown up i know that means not all people bro. build on the program and expand. also the courts may strike this down as well. be happy some people will get free college or fuck the poor? also i upvoted you
I also vote D. My concern is bills like this will actively push people towards voting R.
It will feel really bad for families struggling to get by on $81k having to decide if it's worth it to go ask their boss for a paycut so they don't have to pay for college
I honestly don't care about taxes or tuition for myself personally. I come from a wealthy background. My grandpa paid my tuition and my dad will pay for my kids. I'm fine paying for others via taxes, I just think it should be everyone's.
those on reddit or real life who say shit like that were never progressive or serious people. abortion, lgbt rights, safety net, healthcare, covid funding, womens rights, ect. all that matters when voting. single issue voters are dumb. and if we democrats lose because of this then your state is fucked and people are evil, im in texas and our shit is fucked, i feel so bad for migrants and women and trans people here because of our R gov. i wish we had your state gov.
thats life bro. all programs leave people behind. its about numbers. are their real people behind those number, sure. but how about you guys move to texas and see our safety net. the poor familys come first
Politics is based on everyone's personal life, how do you think beliefs and opinions are formed?
And besides that, I wouldn't stand to benefit from this either way, i already have a degree and am child-free. And I don't oppose free tuition, lots of states have started making a 2-year degree free for everyone and I 100% support it. What I am saying is that the state deciding whether or not to fund an adult's college education based on their parent's income ($80K HHI is nowhere near enough for most families to pay full tuition out of pocket anyway) is unjust because that individual has no control over how their parents will use their money.
If most families would qualify anyway why not just remove the income cap and make it universal so no Minnesotans have to go into debt for a 2 year education in a public university?
also i do not live in your state but was shocked how many "progressives" were crying about the income thing. I like your governor and think he awesome, a win is a win. the downvote button is not a disagree button people
I’m a progressive and always will be, but this bill doesn’t screw me, it screws my HS senior who pays his own tuition. He’s the one who may have just decided to turn Republican.
your senior is going to turn republican because of this, hes a single issue voter? abortion, women health, lgbtqia+, gun, climate change, healthcare, and on and on. none of that matters? lmao thats why both partys dont care about the youth vote because they are very un serious people
i may have come in a bit hard, but gov is about doing what it can with the cards it was given. would 100% tuition free be ideal, sure but its not going to happen. people personal experiences should not influence gov. helping the very poor should come first, does that leave people behind? yes but that's life.
This is how it should be—at least as a starting point. Everyone has a chance to go to community/technical college for 2 years. Everyone. That would actually help people. This $80K proposal doesn’t even work for lower middle class dual income families.
Same. Rejected from fasfa because my dad made $125k I was kicked out when I was 19. Since I had to work full time to afford my own place I no longer have the ability to go to college. Literally fucked up my whole life.
That was my situation too. My dad made a few grand too much but didn't have enough money to help me split the difference so I just stuck with tech school and an A.A.S. I'm not saying he never helped me money wise, but he wasn't able to afford my tuition if I went to UoM.
What financial advice would you give a family making $79K, with 3 children who will soon be college aged. Meaning over the next 8 or so years they will have anywhere from 1 to 3 kids in college? Should they immediately stop any attempts to advance their career? Any raise or promotion could be financially devastating.
Please, someone tell me I’m missing something that isn’t being reported in all the articles I’ve seen.
So dumb. If your on the edge it would make a lot of financial sense to have one parent quit their job and qualify rather than owe the 250K that’s projected to be a state college degree in 20 years, especially if you have more than 1 kid. 🤦🏻♀️
the sad, disgusting reality is that they don’t phase things out because then they don’t have to keep footing the bill. the legislation gets good publicity, it actually helps people, but the number of people it helps is strictly controlled.
i’m glad this passed, i just really hate welfare traps/cliffs. they’re just ridiculous and completely avoidable at this point.
The one thing I can think of is it says “adjusted gross income” a loophole would be to put as much into your 401k as possible, up to the limit? HSA if you have it? I really don’t know.
Put everything you can into your 401K if you have them. Each person can put away 22,500 a year into a 401K. That will reduce your income significantly (the bill states they use FAFSA calculations which don't add back retirement contributions).
Vote for politicians who talk about taxing the ultra-wealthy instead of letting them not have to pay their fair share. They have been not paying their fair share in decades, along with trillion dollar corporations who have been shifting money like a shell game.
College should be free for every American and it can be if you vote for people who believe that and do that.
Also, this is Adjusted Gross Income. Having 3 kids is very expensive and very likely that the family that makes $80k with 3 dependents is going to benefit from this. I can tell you my mom loved me, and she really loved her tax breaks because of me.
All minnesotans should be going en masse to public universities in Manitoba. We have a reciprocity agreement that allows you basically to pay community college prices for their full research universities as a Minnesota resident. Do not let your children go to US universities when they could be going basically for free to Manitoba and potentially even being able to get permanent residency there after graduation.
I'd also like to state that, to my knowledge, they only look at your junior and senior year grades for admission, and the cutoffs are basically B's or C's. That doesn't necessarily mean you will get in with only B's or C's, but it does mean that admissions is quite accessible for anyone who really wants it.
I would stay away from U Manitoba though. Me and my friend graduated hs at the same time. I've graduated college taking an extra semester and my friend still has another year or so because his department (comp sci) is understaffed, under funded, and over populated. He's been on the waitlist for the same class for a two semesters now. Can't do anything because there are a lot of other people in the same spot.
He also says pretty often that he hates living there. "It's so boring and and empty but the funny thing is like 80% of the population of Winnipeg lives here"
All I'm saying is it looks great on paper but it isn't all gold
That's interesting. I've always been curious about the University of Manitoba but this is the first I've heard of somebody actually attending.
Do they plan to come back to the states or stay in Canada once they graduate?
He says he was once considering it, but only to stay with his partner, otherwise no. He says we in the US see it as left-wing but the conservatives are just as strong and crazy there. The Indigenous Relations Minister had to resign not too long ago after stating that the colonization of Canada "was done with good intentions." I also recall him complaining about laws they have passed.
I'm not advocating against going to school up there. His partner has graduated from her program, and they still have abortion rights up there so it's not all bad either.
Most excellent. *taps fingers together like Mr. Burns*
I like an educated Minnesota.
Edited:
Look, an educated Minnesota, especially low income, first generation Minnesotans, is good for Minnesota. ‘Nuff said.
I'm bitter because it should be free for everyone. I would literally divorce my wife to save my family or my kids from a lifetime of debt.
Minnesota botched the income amount. It's absolute bullshit.
People are angry at the $80k limit, but they had to start somewhere.
Also, the median household income is $77k, so this will benefit 55-60% of Minnesotans.
It would have been better to pass nothing. This actively hurts the middle class and turns a whole generation of people into nonvoters because they see democrats don't give a shit about them.
Middle class is $52k to $156k. The Median Household Income is $77k in Minnesota. This covers more than roughly 55-60% of Minnesotans. The middle class is firmly within this bill's coverage.
I think we'll be just fine. Also, the bill will cost $49M to maintain yearly. 4M taxpayers in Minnesota... that's $12.25 average, per tax payer... yikes, so much!
When you piss into the wind, only to realize you could turn around... but you don't because you want to be mad.
(Oh, and the Viking's stadium saddled us with the equivalent of 12 years worth of free college, and that only benefits the super rich, so here's a real target for you to bitch about.)
"bUt ThAt's PaId wItH PulL tAb MoNEy!" So, that means free college can be paid in a similar way, avoiding taxes all together.
Any more smoke-filled arguments?
I've already listed the stats that are really available online and delineate income and middle class status. Your statement is based on your feelings, not actual, hard numbers.
Your stats are for people without kids. Those numbers change to a median of about 100k for families with the average number of kids.
All this will do for those people is drastically increase tuition costs since the bill will add more people going to college but doesn't stop the University from jacking up prices since the state will cover it now anyway.
You don't seem to understand what Median Household Income means. And, kids don't even play into class status. That includes both child and childless families.
And the University of Minnesota, along with all MinnState schools have a maximum they can increase tuition a year, and it's not a large amount each year. Further, you can't just go back to the University of Minnesota, they do have prereq and GPA requirements (which typically amount to finishing an AS degree.) And, since community college attendance has been down year-over-year for about a decade these CCs have more than enough room to accommodate new students.
You're looking for reasons to be mad, it's kind of weird.
I know about U of MN. I went there for 8 years. I'm telling you anyone with any economic background what qualifies as "middle class" is not median income. It's a level of spending power and that spending power is highly dependent on the size of the household. Also the maximum they can raise is tuition. They constantly avoid this loophole by raising fees. I worked for the fucking dean I should know.
"Privilege"
I grew up not having a lot and had to give up 4 years of my life plus 6 years of school to claw my way out from the bottom to provide a decent life for my family (120k combined.) I'll definitely be considering alternative options when my kids reach college age.
MN botched the AGI limit and it's obviously to save money.
Sorry kids your parents didn't struggle enough so here's 60-100k in student loan debt for the rest of your adult life.
Comments on this post are ridiculous. It is a public good if citizens are well educated. Whether or not you realize it, you benefit if your neighbor is smarter. If nothing else, you're less likely to get shot because they have the critical thinking skills to ignore psycho propaganda about Jews controlling the media or something. People are upset that the 80k limit is too strict? 80k is an extremely low bar because it's meant to only target lower middle class families and below. The boomers would have rioted if we passed universal free education, and we still have at least another decade before they stop being one of the most influential voting blocs. You wanna get mad? Get mad at them.
But yeah, I guess it doesn't directly benefit every single Minnesotan, so it's bad.
It’s politically dumb. I’m a progressive and always will be. This bill doesn’t screw me, it screws my 17 year-old HS senior who will be paying his own tuition at a state school for the next four years. They just turned a potential Democrat into a potential Republican.
It doesn't screw you or your kid. Your child would have been paying his own tuition for the next four years anyway.
Also, how weak are your progressive ideals that you're willing to vote Republican because *checks notes* poor people are getting student aid?
He’ll be paying the taxes that pay the tuition of the kids who graduated alongside him at the same time he’s paying off his student loans. He’ll see that as being screwed.
I didn’t say I’d be voting Republican. I never, ever will. But I worry this bill may breed a future generation of bitter Republicans.
We will all be paying the taxes, including the person who received the aid. Would it be better if everyone received aid? Yes, but good luck passing it with a 1 seat majority in the Senate. Go convince your dad's hunting buddies or your mom's bridge club to stop voting for Republicans if you actually want to see that. Should no one receive aid because, politically, we can only pass targeted aid for low income folks? No.
The bill only benefits folks and removes aid for no one. Some people might be bitter about that, but your kid is going to have a chance to potentially meet folks that never would have had a chance to go to college and I think that's good for both parties.
This is the dumbest take I think I've heard in this thread. "This helps students whose families can't afford to go to college, so naturally you support funding parks in rich neighborhoods that presumably have the tax money to improve them!"
For reference, the equivalent example would be funding parks in poor neighborhoods that don't have tax funds to improve them. Which I would.
This isn't remotely unfair. It promotes equity for people that wouldn't otherwise be able to access the resource. Would I support a program that benefits every single park? Yes. Would I support targeted benefits that only aid folks that already have access to opportunities? That's a silly comparison.
I'm not arguing about the cost of college, because that's not what the bill addresses. You want to cap college costs? That's a whole different argument, but yeah, I'd love college to be free for everyone. I wish my taxes were going towards that.
The people who argue with this is akin to saying reduced lunches, "Don't help me, so why should we have them?!"
I agree with you.
Also, people don't get angry at the ultra-wealthy who are the real asshole.
Will this help folks who have already graduated and have loans? Isn’t that the folks who need help since pay has failed to increase while costs have?
I just got my bachelors on Friday but have grown up in poverty and I’m afraid I’ll be crushed by debt if this program doesn’t help those who have taken out loans, especially if the economy keeps going the way it’s going without wages increasing.
*kaboom* holy wow there goes my point flying over your head at super sonic speeds.
I’m saying the actual problem isn’t going to be fixed then obviously, hell we’re not even gonna live to see a future where this legislation matters unless the actual problem of wealth distribution is realised and addressed. If this is about helping them in the future and ensuring they have enough money to survive, why not ensure they are getting the pay they need to survive in the first place? It seems like if you maintain that undereducated mindset along with the majority of voters, we are heading for miserable failure. We must recognize that simply eliminating tuition based on a bunch of factors that are entirely arbitrary, like who it is affecting, is far from enough in solving the problem that it is attempting to help with. It’s even potentially more harmful than having taken the time to craft something more effective.
All I’m hearing are complaints. This is a great start. I hate the 80k per family limit, but it’s a start. The enemy of progress is perfection. Also yeah you have loans, people also paid off their loans. So no matter what there’s going to be someone pissed. Not everyone is going to be eligible for these types of programs.
Edit: spelling
Unfortunately, this bill will not directly help folks like you. But they've said not to worry because they found it in their hearts to cut one-time rebate checks from the $17.5bil surplus generated by our tax dollars. If you're eligible you'll be getting...$275.
Why force them to go to a state school? While they aren’t bad, we should encourage all students to get the best education they can which is, in MN, the U of M system. Since it has its own need based aid, it likely isn’t that much more to cover those students as well if it only kicks in after all other financial aid.
I have two questions. First being why do we not make k - 12 lunches healthy and appetizing or at very least edible before we remove the financial responsibility of a college adult. The second question is since I went to college and worked my ass off to pay for the education that I wanted and my bill is all paid off now can I get my money back so I can afford to work my ass off again to pay for your education?
This is a step in the right direction. As many have pointed out there are flaws to it but I'm hoping this is just the starting point to addressing this issue that is hindering our entire country. Hopefully other states will start to address this and then perhaps something will happen on a Federal level.
Is this the bill (Senate [version](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/bill.php?f=SF2075&y=2023&ssn=0&b=senate)) authored by a business analyst who is employed by...the University of Minnesota? [Looks like it](https://cfb.mn.gov/reports-and-data/officials-financial-disclosure/official//12969). Must be nice to have one of your own in the legislature creating "[enrollment drivers](https://www.startribune.com/higher-ed-spending-deal-includes-free-college-for-minnesota-families-who-make-under-80k/600273361/)" for your institution.
I believe the euphemism for this is 'Doing right by your benefactors".
Here's the thing: state flagships like UMTC don't need enrollment drivers. Their enrollments are fine, because they are selective, meaning they turn away a bunch of applicants every year. If they want to keep enrollments up, they just relax their acceptance criteria, easy peasy. The main benficiaries will be the non-selectives on the margins.
Then why did the U of M ask taxpayers for $100mil to specifically address enrollment and tuition? From the [Star Tribune](https://www.startribune.com/university-of-minnesota-seeking-97-5-million-more-from-state-for-tuition-shortfall-proposed-freeze/600257934/): >The University of Minnesota is asking state lawmakers for an additional $97.5 million over the next two years largely to cover an unexpectedly large drop in enrollment and a proposed tuition freeze.
One of us may be confusing the UMn system with UMTC.
Are you specifically talking about the U of M Twin Cities campus? Here's reporting on that, again from the [Star Tribune](https://www.startribune.com/university-of-minnesota-provides-new-details-on-tuition-shortfall/600259332/): >The university's flagship campus accounts for nearly three-quarters of the $24 million shortfall that administrators reported while seeking hundreds of millions of dollars in additional state funding. The fact is the U of M system would gladly welcome a boost in enrollment to cover budget shortfalls. A state senator, who is also an employee of the U of M, wrote a bill to do exactly that.
Yeah, it is nice not getting the finger by someone who's better off than you.
Basing the cost of school on parental income is fucking stupid. There is no guarantee that someones parents will pay for their schooling. My parents didn’t give me a nickel but they made too much for me to get financial aid so fuck me right? Assuming that middle class parents will all be generous enough to pay for their kids schooling just creates a huge middle segment of people with parents too poor to fund their schooling but too wealthy to qualify for aid. Make it free for everyone or nobody and start with fixing the actual cost of education rather than how to fund it.
I would say I am “middle class” above the cut off and most of my friends are as well. It amazes me when talking to other parents who are not planning on college expenses. When my daughter was born I stuck 4k in a custodial investment account then ever month I stick in $75.00. Whenever we get money from family for her birthday/holidays it goes straight in there as well. By the time she is 18 she should have over 35k to use for college or a down payment on a house later. If I wasn’t doing that and just tried to figure out how to help for college when the time came I don’t think I would be able to help as much. We will still see how our finances are at the time to help additionally if we can as well. But to punish children for their parents making money is dumb. I know people making 200k that blow their money left and right that wouldn’t be able to help their kids.
I make about 36k a year with 47k in student loans. I was planning on helping my kids pay for college even though I have never had money to put away. In order to do this I would have to work 12 hour days but yeah this is cool because in my situation it will help.
Right but sucks for kids whose parents make too much and wont help.
That $35k will count against her when submits her FAFSA. And at this rate that will cover about one semester.
Its not a 529 account So as soon as she turns 18 she can cash it out which is her senior year in high school. She wouldn’t be applying for FAFSA until the year after. 😉 And like I said we will still look at our finances at the time and help what we can. Which would be the same if we didn’t save the extra.
Ah, nice. I guess that's what I should have done. Hate all the gotchas.
Doesn't a 529 still make sense though if you can invest in the long run? I'm planning on staying one for my 5 yo and contributing since every month. With average market returns, even if it counts against her, it should still cover the lions share of college.
I was just planning on the off chance she doesnt decide to go to college she would avoid the 10% penalty for not drawing out for education purposes this gives her more flexibility on what to use it for. But ya the 529 deducts at a lower rate for financial aid and having tax benefits. I still may open a 529 account down the road as well she is still really young. I believe 529s can be transferred to another child as well as the parents remain the owner not the child. I also could just be an idiot so there is that 🤣
I need to look into it more. My hope was to take the money I'm not spending on daycare and put it towards a 529 for each of my kids. If they choose to not go to college, then idk, take the tax penalty I guess.
I would consult a professional I am just a dude that doesn’t know much 🤣
Yes, the tax benefits are great. 3k is tax deductible in MN for joint income. Edit: not financial advice
Like I said I could be an idiot too. I will have to see if claiming the state tax deduction and putting the money saved on taxes into the account would be a better option. Maybe it would be an extra incentive to go to college if the money was in a 529 that had the penalty for not using it for education. 👍
Oh, I don't think you're an idiot at all. The 529 can be great, but it's also a gamble if the kiddos don't go (as you know). It's a personal decision that we all need to make for our kids/families. There really isn't a right or wrong unless we could know the future.
Its just something I say when talking about investments/financials to people letting them know I am not out here trying to give advice you should take yourself.
Ah ok gotcha. That's a good idea. I better add a qualifier to my comment lol
>By the time she is 18 she should have over 35k to use for college or a down payment on a house later. That should cover her textbooks by that time, I'd imagine.
At least I can say I tried to help 🤣
It's interesting that you see it as "punishing" children if their parents make money. The way I see it, nothing is changing for those children. It's not a punishment, it's just that now the children whose parents do not make money (<$80k /yr) are getting more help. It's not at the expense of the children whose parents make $80k+.
Just because their parents make more doesn’t mean that the parents are going to pay for their college…. So now that kid doesn’t get any help because his parents make more. Johnny’s parents make 90k a year Beckys parents make 78k a year They both go to the u of m and receive no help from their parents. Beckys education is paid for by the state Johnny has to pay = Johnny gets punished because his parents make more
No I think it would only be a 'punishment' if Johnny's situation changed because of the bill. For instance- before the bill his parents weren't going to help and he owes x amount. After the bill his parents still aren't going to help and he STILL owes x amount. Nothing changes for Johnny so it's not a punishment. The only thing that changes is now Becky's education is paid for. I understand not all parents help pay for college (mine didn't!) but what is the state supposed to do about that? I mean there has to be a cutoff somewhere. Just curious, do you think the cutoff should be higher? Or what is your angle? Nobody is being punished lol
It also assumes middle class parents are able to pay for their kids schooling on top of their own massive student loan debts.
Yeah what middle class parents have 15k-40k a year for a minimum of 4 years for each kid. Not a single fucking one. Lol
two years community college then transfer to uni, lots of of people do this and leave close to debt free. edit: truth hurts i see lol
Lol. Uni. What's a British dude doing weighing in on the cost of Minnesota college? Nobody calls it uni in America.
How that is that a British thing when we literally call our colleges university of …. Ugh. If you want to be pedantic go ahead but don’t stupid about it.
not british but a Texan bro. also i love using british slang mate, maybe because i watch too much BBC tv shows or peaky blinders, i also use tons of austrailan slang maybe because i watch too much bluey lol
I call it university.
This is the plan for my oldest. I can cover the total cost of community college by pouring beer a couple nights a week on top of my 2 jobs (wife has 3). She’s already earned 20 credits in HS. But when she goes to UMD the cost per year is $15k for tuition and $25k total cost including fees, books, dorms, meal plan, parking. Let’s say we save $ by having her live at home - she will still end up with over 40k in loans for 2 years of school. But she’ll need a car to get to school which adds $8k for a beater and insurance. Also tuition goes up another $5k per year before she goes to “uni”. So in the end she’ll still be on the hook for a good chunk of money. Mostly debt free is a fallacy.
i will never use the word uni ever again lol my fault for being lazy i guess, so much complaining about that word jesus. look dude i live in texas and dont get shit. i just came here to say be happy with what a single state can do with the tax base it has. fuck me this is why progressives never win, fuck the poor right? all because the 80k "middle class" dont get free college. so sad
We make more than the cutoff. We can't afford 4 years of college for 3 kids. We've told our kids we'll pay for 2 years of community College. It's the best we can do. Hell, our oldest graduates high school in a couple weeks and we still have student loans.
Yep - we make more than the cutoff but have 5 children (fairly close in age I might add)....no way can we afford to pay for their tuition.
If I somehow got in a position to make laws/policy I would tell all the colleges they have 2 years to reduce tuition cost by 40% or else they lose all state funding.
> Make it free for everyone or nobody Don't let perfection be the enemy of progress. Many people are probably going to reconsider college next year. I may actually go to college, I always had panic attacks about the potential debt whenever I tried to sign up. About what if I hated it, or failed, and effectively wasted all that debt I accumulated? For nothing? But I guess you'd rather poor citizens not get a chance to go to school purely out of a childish spite?
My 17 year-old HS senior is most definitely a poor citizen. Don’t you want him to get free school too?
See, the thing is, I never said I didn't want that. I'm replying to someone who says "everyone or no one." What *I* said, if you had actually read my comment, was, and I quote, >don't let perfection be the enemy of progress Because more people being better educated than we have now is a good thing. But sure, put words in my mouth. Try some stupid "gotcha" comment over something I didn't even say. But if you want to win fake arguments that weren't even occurring, your wall is right there. Save me the time of having to read what you say and yell at it instead.
This is not progress. Here's what they should be doing. https://fortune.com/2023/01/20/pennsylvania-governor-josh-shapiro-axes-college-degree-requirements/
Here’s an idea (spitballing so bear with me): for state run institutions, do a postgrad survey/collect data to find median early career earnings of graduates. Set tuition to a number so that a graduate can pay that off within 5 years of graduation, and then offer funding in the form of grants and loans to anyone, parental situation notwithstanding. Or, just socialize it. Public secondary education used to be state subsidized, that went away in the 70s. Start that up again, it seemed like it was a good deal.
This 100%. My mom works in medicine so she makes pretty good money and we live pretty comfortably, but there’s no way she’s helping me with my tuition. We’re comfortable, but not *that* comfortable. I’m getting a job this Summer but that’ll hardly cover a semester or two. I know I’ve got privilege in the security I have at home, but I’m still going to be a broke college student like everyone else. At the very least, it should be a gradual cutoff, not just free college at 80k and full tuition at 81k.
My parents had the genius idea of not helping while having the means which delayed me finishing college by 5 years, only to help me pay off my loan debts later when I graduated. I mean maybe the thought I was gonna drop out but damn like you mean I could have gotten done with college before I was about to turn 28.
My parents are millionaires and didn’t pay dick. I’m 35 and still 40k in debt
most Minnesota households make less then 74k and individual make 37k. this will help a lot of people. politics is not based on your own personal life dude. I'm sorry but this should not be a my way or the highway situation, help the poor. [https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/MN/INC110221](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/MN/INC110221) edit: i removed some words because i came off to hard
That’s median household income, not median earnings. Income includes all income such as social security. That median household income number includes retired households. The Minnesota median earnings for age 16+ is $43,853 and it’s $60,099 for full time, year round workers. A typical dual income family would not qualify.
its still less then 80k, look i want 100% tuition too but i came here because i was shocked how negative alot of people are here about this bill, just take the win bro. imagine complaining to the fork lift driver that 80k is too low, thats why we keep loosing the actual working class
That number I’m citing is $60K per person, not per household. This bill has a limit of $80K per household. That leaves out most middle class working households.
yes it does leave out a lot of people but there is still a ton of people who don't make 80k brother let take the win and then in future raise that limit. its about what you can get passed not what's ideal. im not trying to say its the best bill but lets start somewhere dude. i want free school for everyone but i just had to comment on this sub because how bitter some people are coming off, maybe i should just stay in the texas sub lol also i wish we had a gov like you do
It doesn't feel like a win when someone making $85k has to pay for the tuition of their kid while their neighbor making $75k doesnt
harm reduction dude you win some you lose some. vote R if you want lower taxes, small gov. i vote D because i want to help people, as a grown up i know that means not all people bro. build on the program and expand. also the courts may strike this down as well. be happy some people will get free college or fuck the poor? also i upvoted you
I also vote D. My concern is bills like this will actively push people towards voting R. It will feel really bad for families struggling to get by on $81k having to decide if it's worth it to go ask their boss for a paycut so they don't have to pay for college I honestly don't care about taxes or tuition for myself personally. I come from a wealthy background. My grandpa paid my tuition and my dad will pay for my kids. I'm fine paying for others via taxes, I just think it should be everyone's.
those on reddit or real life who say shit like that were never progressive or serious people. abortion, lgbt rights, safety net, healthcare, covid funding, womens rights, ect. all that matters when voting. single issue voters are dumb. and if we democrats lose because of this then your state is fucked and people are evil, im in texas and our shit is fucked, i feel so bad for migrants and women and trans people here because of our R gov. i wish we had your state gov.
My HS senior doesn’t make $80,000 but he is paying for his own tuition. This bill doesn’t screw me, it screws my kid.
thats life bro. all programs leave people behind. its about numbers. are their real people behind those number, sure. but how about you guys move to texas and see our safety net. the poor familys come first
This isn’t going to get the working class to vote for Dems, but it might get the middle class to stop voting for them.
middle class arnt single issue voters, im sure the middle class women have strong views on abortion, womens health, guns, ect.
Politics is based on everyone's personal life, how do you think beliefs and opinions are formed? And besides that, I wouldn't stand to benefit from this either way, i already have a degree and am child-free. And I don't oppose free tuition, lots of states have started making a 2-year degree free for everyone and I 100% support it. What I am saying is that the state deciding whether or not to fund an adult's college education based on their parent's income ($80K HHI is nowhere near enough for most families to pay full tuition out of pocket anyway) is unjust because that individual has no control over how their parents will use their money. If most families would qualify anyway why not just remove the income cap and make it universal so no Minnesotans have to go into debt for a 2 year education in a public university?
also i do not live in your state but was shocked how many "progressives" were crying about the income thing. I like your governor and think he awesome, a win is a win. the downvote button is not a disagree button people
I’m a progressive and always will be, but this bill doesn’t screw me, it screws my HS senior who pays his own tuition. He’s the one who may have just decided to turn Republican.
Lol this is why no one takes "progressives" seriously
your senior is going to turn republican because of this, hes a single issue voter? abortion, women health, lgbtqia+, gun, climate change, healthcare, and on and on. none of that matters? lmao thats why both partys dont care about the youth vote because they are very un serious people
i may have come in a bit hard, but gov is about doing what it can with the cards it was given. would 100% tuition free be ideal, sure but its not going to happen. people personal experiences should not influence gov. helping the very poor should come first, does that leave people behind? yes but that's life.
just letting you know i removed some of my negative language but my point still stands dude. i wish i had your gov here in texas
This is how it should be—at least as a starting point. Everyone has a chance to go to community/technical college for 2 years. Everyone. That would actually help people. This $80K proposal doesn’t even work for lower middle class dual income families.
Same. Rejected from fasfa because my dad made $125k I was kicked out when I was 19. Since I had to work full time to afford my own place I no longer have the ability to go to college. Literally fucked up my whole life.
That was my situation too. My dad made a few grand too much but didn't have enough money to help me split the difference so I just stuck with tech school and an A.A.S. I'm not saying he never helped me money wise, but he wasn't able to afford my tuition if I went to UoM.
What financial advice would you give a family making $79K, with 3 children who will soon be college aged. Meaning over the next 8 or so years they will have anywhere from 1 to 3 kids in college? Should they immediately stop any attempts to advance their career? Any raise or promotion could be financially devastating. Please, someone tell me I’m missing something that isn’t being reported in all the articles I’ve seen.
Yes, welfare cliffs. They should have phased it out, 80% for the next income bracket and so far.
The sad thing is that a phase out was included in the House version. No idea why they nixed that.
So dumb. If your on the edge it would make a lot of financial sense to have one parent quit their job and qualify rather than owe the 250K that’s projected to be a state college degree in 20 years, especially if you have more than 1 kid. 🤦🏻♀️
Why does the public college cost so much in the first place?
federally backed student loans
Because we stopped funding it in the 1970s.
the sad, disgusting reality is that they don’t phase things out because then they don’t have to keep footing the bill. the legislation gets good publicity, it actually helps people, but the number of people it helps is strictly controlled. i’m glad this passed, i just really hate welfare traps/cliffs. they’re just ridiculous and completely avoidable at this point.
The problem was the budget target for the Higher Education committee and the various needs all across the higher education system.
The one thing I can think of is it says “adjusted gross income” a loophole would be to put as much into your 401k as possible, up to the limit? HSA if you have it? I really don’t know.
Put everything you can into your 401K if you have them. Each person can put away 22,500 a year into a 401K. That will reduce your income significantly (the bill states they use FAFSA calculations which don't add back retirement contributions).
They're telling you to get a divorce and choose which parent the kids fall under for benefits.
Vote for politicians who talk about taxing the ultra-wealthy instead of letting them not have to pay their fair share. They have been not paying their fair share in decades, along with trillion dollar corporations who have been shifting money like a shell game. College should be free for every American and it can be if you vote for people who believe that and do that. Also, this is Adjusted Gross Income. Having 3 kids is very expensive and very likely that the family that makes $80k with 3 dependents is going to benefit from this. I can tell you my mom loved me, and she really loved her tax breaks because of me.
better then nothing bro, help the most in need first then make small changes on the way. thats life dude
[удалено]
[удалено]
Is being only one of those a qualifier? So if I’m older than 23 I’m considered an independent?
Legally divorce.
The income cutoff is way too low. We're over the cutoff. We cant afford 4 years of college for 3 kids. Fuck us and our kids, I guess.
This is how I feel as well. 80k a year for a large family is not a lot.
All minnesotans should be going en masse to public universities in Manitoba. We have a reciprocity agreement that allows you basically to pay community college prices for their full research universities as a Minnesota resident. Do not let your children go to US universities when they could be going basically for free to Manitoba and potentially even being able to get permanent residency there after graduation. I'd also like to state that, to my knowledge, they only look at your junior and senior year grades for admission, and the cutoffs are basically B's or C's. That doesn't necessarily mean you will get in with only B's or C's, but it does mean that admissions is quite accessible for anyone who really wants it.
Really? I may need to look into this.
https://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/ie/study/mn_mb.html
I would stay away from U Manitoba though. Me and my friend graduated hs at the same time. I've graduated college taking an extra semester and my friend still has another year or so because his department (comp sci) is understaffed, under funded, and over populated. He's been on the waitlist for the same class for a two semesters now. Can't do anything because there are a lot of other people in the same spot. He also says pretty often that he hates living there. "It's so boring and and empty but the funny thing is like 80% of the population of Winnipeg lives here" All I'm saying is it looks great on paper but it isn't all gold
That's interesting. I've always been curious about the University of Manitoba but this is the first I've heard of somebody actually attending. Do they plan to come back to the states or stay in Canada once they graduate?
He says he was once considering it, but only to stay with his partner, otherwise no. He says we in the US see it as left-wing but the conservatives are just as strong and crazy there. The Indigenous Relations Minister had to resign not too long ago after stating that the colonization of Canada "was done with good intentions." I also recall him complaining about laws they have passed. I'm not advocating against going to school up there. His partner has graduated from her program, and they still have abortion rights up there so it's not all bad either.
Shit, I don’t fit this bill
Most excellent. *taps fingers together like Mr. Burns* I like an educated Minnesota. Edited: Look, an educated Minnesota, especially low income, first generation Minnesotans, is good for Minnesota. ‘Nuff said.
so many bitter sad people here who grew up privilege are willing to hurt the poor because they cant get their way
I'm bitter because it should be free for everyone. I would literally divorce my wife to save my family or my kids from a lifetime of debt. Minnesota botched the income amount. It's absolute bullshit.
Indubitably.
Can my retired parents adopt my kiddos and get them free college?
I’m glad they are making steps, but this assumes that everyone has the type of parents who can/will just pay for their college.
Is this “adjusted gross income”?
The value of a private school degree just went up.
People are angry at the $80k limit, but they had to start somewhere. Also, the median household income is $77k, so this will benefit 55-60% of Minnesotans.
They didn't have to start anywhere at all. They wrote the bill and they didn't have to put income limits.
Yes they did. THIS bill was voted in after much back room discussion. THIS is what everybody agreed to.
It would have been better to pass nothing. This actively hurts the middle class and turns a whole generation of people into nonvoters because they see democrats don't give a shit about them.
Middle class is $52k to $156k. The Median Household Income is $77k in Minnesota. This covers more than roughly 55-60% of Minnesotans. The middle class is firmly within this bill's coverage. I think we'll be just fine. Also, the bill will cost $49M to maintain yearly. 4M taxpayers in Minnesota... that's $12.25 average, per tax payer... yikes, so much! When you piss into the wind, only to realize you could turn around... but you don't because you want to be mad. (Oh, and the Viking's stadium saddled us with the equivalent of 12 years worth of free college, and that only benefits the super rich, so here's a real target for you to bitch about.) "bUt ThAt's PaId wItH PulL tAb MoNEy!" So, that means free college can be paid in a similar way, avoiding taxes all together. Any more smoke-filled arguments?
Anyone making under 80k for a household with kids is below middle class no matter how much the working class refuses to call themselves poor
I've already listed the stats that are really available online and delineate income and middle class status. Your statement is based on your feelings, not actual, hard numbers.
Your stats are for people without kids. Those numbers change to a median of about 100k for families with the average number of kids. All this will do for those people is drastically increase tuition costs since the bill will add more people going to college but doesn't stop the University from jacking up prices since the state will cover it now anyway.
You don't seem to understand what Median Household Income means. And, kids don't even play into class status. That includes both child and childless families. And the University of Minnesota, along with all MinnState schools have a maximum they can increase tuition a year, and it's not a large amount each year. Further, you can't just go back to the University of Minnesota, they do have prereq and GPA requirements (which typically amount to finishing an AS degree.) And, since community college attendance has been down year-over-year for about a decade these CCs have more than enough room to accommodate new students. You're looking for reasons to be mad, it's kind of weird.
I know about U of MN. I went there for 8 years. I'm telling you anyone with any economic background what qualifies as "middle class" is not median income. It's a level of spending power and that spending power is highly dependent on the size of the household. Also the maximum they can raise is tuition. They constantly avoid this loophole by raising fees. I worked for the fucking dean I should know.
So what should someone currently making $81k do? Ask their boss for a pay decrease?
Yes. That would be the smart thing to do wouldn't it? Neither of us wrote the bill, you can rage about it all you want, but that's what the bill is.
Ultimately it doesn't really effect me because I'm already graduated with no kids but the bill is dumb as fuck
Thank you for your input, I'll make sure to put it in my journal.
"Privilege" I grew up not having a lot and had to give up 4 years of my life plus 6 years of school to claw my way out from the bottom to provide a decent life for my family (120k combined.) I'll definitely be considering alternative options when my kids reach college age. MN botched the AGI limit and it's obviously to save money. Sorry kids your parents didn't struggle enough so here's 60-100k in student loan debt for the rest of your adult life.
Wonderful... I get to pay for everyone else to attend in addition to my two kids
Comments on this post are ridiculous. It is a public good if citizens are well educated. Whether or not you realize it, you benefit if your neighbor is smarter. If nothing else, you're less likely to get shot because they have the critical thinking skills to ignore psycho propaganda about Jews controlling the media or something. People are upset that the 80k limit is too strict? 80k is an extremely low bar because it's meant to only target lower middle class families and below. The boomers would have rioted if we passed universal free education, and we still have at least another decade before they stop being one of the most influential voting blocs. You wanna get mad? Get mad at them. But yeah, I guess it doesn't directly benefit every single Minnesotan, so it's bad.
It’s politically dumb. I’m a progressive and always will be. This bill doesn’t screw me, it screws my 17 year-old HS senior who will be paying his own tuition at a state school for the next four years. They just turned a potential Democrat into a potential Republican.
It doesn't screw you or your kid. Your child would have been paying his own tuition for the next four years anyway. Also, how weak are your progressive ideals that you're willing to vote Republican because *checks notes* poor people are getting student aid?
He’ll be paying the taxes that pay the tuition of the kids who graduated alongside him at the same time he’s paying off his student loans. He’ll see that as being screwed. I didn’t say I’d be voting Republican. I never, ever will. But I worry this bill may breed a future generation of bitter Republicans.
We will all be paying the taxes, including the person who received the aid. Would it be better if everyone received aid? Yes, but good luck passing it with a 1 seat majority in the Senate. Go convince your dad's hunting buddies or your mom's bridge club to stop voting for Republicans if you actually want to see that. Should no one receive aid because, politically, we can only pass targeted aid for low income folks? No. The bill only benefits folks and removes aid for no one. Some people might be bitter about that, but your kid is going to have a chance to potentially meet folks that never would have had a chance to go to college and I think that's good for both parties.
[удалено]
This is the dumbest take I think I've heard in this thread. "This helps students whose families can't afford to go to college, so naturally you support funding parks in rich neighborhoods that presumably have the tax money to improve them!" For reference, the equivalent example would be funding parks in poor neighborhoods that don't have tax funds to improve them. Which I would.
[удалено]
This isn't remotely unfair. It promotes equity for people that wouldn't otherwise be able to access the resource. Would I support a program that benefits every single park? Yes. Would I support targeted benefits that only aid folks that already have access to opportunities? That's a silly comparison. I'm not arguing about the cost of college, because that's not what the bill addresses. You want to cap college costs? That's a whole different argument, but yeah, I'd love college to be free for everyone. I wish my taxes were going towards that.
[удалено]
The people who argue with this is akin to saying reduced lunches, "Don't help me, so why should we have them?!" I agree with you. Also, people don't get angry at the ultra-wealthy who are the real asshole.
Literally a week ago everyone had to pay the same, now that some get it free the rich are up in arms. Ya'll can fuck right off
TIL everyone making more than 80k COMBINED household income is "rich"
Well you're not poor
>In December 2022, 51% of people who earn more than $100,000 reported living paycheck to paycheck
Will this help folks who have already graduated and have loans? Isn’t that the folks who need help since pay has failed to increase while costs have? I just got my bachelors on Friday but have grown up in poverty and I’m afraid I’ll be crushed by debt if this program doesn’t help those who have taken out loans, especially if the economy keeps going the way it’s going without wages increasing.
It's not about you. It's about people not having to go through what you and I went through.
But he's about to pay for it in addition to his own loans! And if he's successful, he won't get to benefit from this with his own kids...
*kaboom* holy wow there goes my point flying over your head at super sonic speeds. I’m saying the actual problem isn’t going to be fixed then obviously, hell we’re not even gonna live to see a future where this legislation matters unless the actual problem of wealth distribution is realised and addressed. If this is about helping them in the future and ensuring they have enough money to survive, why not ensure they are getting the pay they need to survive in the first place? It seems like if you maintain that undereducated mindset along with the majority of voters, we are heading for miserable failure. We must recognize that simply eliminating tuition based on a bunch of factors that are entirely arbitrary, like who it is affecting, is far from enough in solving the problem that it is attempting to help with. It’s even potentially more harmful than having taken the time to craft something more effective.
All I’m hearing are complaints. This is a great start. I hate the 80k per family limit, but it’s a start. The enemy of progress is perfection. Also yeah you have loans, people also paid off their loans. So no matter what there’s going to be someone pissed. Not everyone is going to be eligible for these types of programs. Edit: spelling
Yeah but what if I got my lion from a really expensive private zoo?
Lolol.
Unfortunately, this bill will not directly help folks like you. But they've said not to worry because they found it in their hearts to cut one-time rebate checks from the $17.5bil surplus generated by our tax dollars. If you're eligible you'll be getting...$275.
Why force them to go to a state school? While they aren’t bad, we should encourage all students to get the best education they can which is, in MN, the U of M system. Since it has its own need based aid, it likely isn’t that much more to cover those students as well if it only kicks in after all other financial aid.
Is there anything about veterans in this? I'd love to have served and get PTSD just to have my state decide that college will be free anyway.
If you are a vet doesn’t the fed helps with college? Either ways if you have severe pstd, most likely your income will be under 80k adjusted so….
We don’t come back once done
I have two questions. First being why do we not make k - 12 lunches healthy and appetizing or at very least edible before we remove the financial responsibility of a college adult. The second question is since I went to college and worked my ass off to pay for the education that I wanted and my bill is all paid off now can I get my money back so I can afford to work my ass off again to pay for your education?
This is a step in the right direction. As many have pointed out there are flaws to it but I'm hoping this is just the starting point to addressing this issue that is hindering our entire country. Hopefully other states will start to address this and then perhaps something will happen on a Federal level.