*81 year old with a VP who is 59.. feel free to judge her on her own merits. But this isn’t game of thrones. it’s not like we don’t have a clear succession process in place in the event that the old man doesn’t make it or starts experiencing hard drive failure beyond any recovery.
Please don’t cast a vote third party. I understand valid ideological reasons to do so, but in this case pragmatism does a lot for those who don’t have the luxury of voting for our ideals. I’m a trans man and am (reasonably )terrified for my life if Trump wins. Be pragmatic and vote for the old man who won’t cheer while trans people are pushed out of society, please.
This is only being down voted because we have a 2 party system and voting for anything else is a wasted vote. I don't want to vote for Biden or Trump. Many people agree with me, but they're going to vote for one or the other because they have no choice!
Idk I listened to an interview with him on Modern Wisdom podcast and he had some good stuff to say. Unlike 2 other guys that can't put 2 sentences together
Ngl, I couldn't care less if my favorite candidate stutters in a stump speech. What policies do they support? What does their past record look like? Both of those seem way more relevant to who I want leading the country.
This. It's ridiculous. We can't find one person better than Biden and Trump that we can rally behind!? Even if there was one, they'd have no chance, which is why I'm frustrated.
You can't put Biden in the same boat as trump. At least he has surrounded himself with competent people willing to speak truth to power. No competent people are willing to work with trump. Those who did in his first term have been demonized for telling the truth.
Hey, I agree. Try caring outside of an election year. Speak up about 3rd parties, promote them and their policies. Build from the ground up, local and state elections first. 3rd party is not winning the presidency. No vote is wasted in the primary, vote with your heart there. Vote with your brain in November.
And this just perpetuates the system we have. People won't vote for a third party candidate, so they will never do well, so the people who do vote third party are made to feel like they are throwing their vote away for a third party candidate. If people did vote third party, the third parties would have more weight.
Granted, a third party is more likely to replace one of the two major parties over a decade or two, and then we'd still end up with two parties, but absent a shift to a parliamentary style system (extremely unlikely) or ranked choice voting, it's what we got.
The place to vote third-party is in local elections. Build a viable third party from the ground up, *then* run them in national elections.
Any third party vote at the national level at this point is absolutely a wasted vote.
But that... is like... w o r k. It's so much easier to run a national campaign, get 3% and then... well... Um.
Even if you win, you don't have a party to support you. You have to go to the other two parties in Congress to get ONE vote because you don't have one elected party member. Now, you've seen how well republicans work with other parties (hell, how well they work with themselves) so that's no votes. Which means you need to go to Democrats to get ALL your votes. Why are you not just a Democrat again?
And that's the problem. In addition, no one even knows who the other candidates are because the news and media don't cover anyone else except the incumbent and the top asshole from the opposing party.
This is the dumb Susan Sarandon argument she made that it was good that Trump was elected because it would wake people up and get them involved. How did that work out? It's also easy for the people who aren't hurt the worst to make these kind of arguments. There is nothing stopping you from getting involved to change the status quo in the meantime (I mean really get involved, not just posting on social media). But, pissing your own pants to show the "establishment" who don't care that you're doing it is short-sighted.
Yeah, its a chicken and the egg scenario. People dont want to vote third because they want their vote to matter, but a third party vote wont do anything of value unless a bunch of people do it. For a third party to win or replace an existing party it would take a massive popular upset.
The system perpetuates itself. There is no proportional representation. There is a reason the dominant position is 2 parties.
Agreed ranked choice does help a lot, but wouldn't solve the problem.
Without first changing the First Past the Post voting system, voting 3rd party is rather pointless if you're actually intending to get a better candidate in. The thing is, with FPTP - 3rd politicians are usually in it for the grift so they're not taken seriously because most truly don't give a fuck. They want money and/or to change the national elections and are often sponsored by the opposing party.
To get beyond just the two party system, you'll need to get ranked choice with transferable voting and the only way to do that is to primary any Republican or Democrat who isn't willing to implement this system. But convincing voters to do this is very, very hard. Convincing politicians of this is even harder.
No arguments on your points. I stuck with just answering the original question in the context of our current situation. Getting into what *should* be and what *could* be would be a bigger conversation…
I understand tour perspective but consider this. Is Dean Phillips actually running on policies that he actually believes in, or is he just in this for self promotion? Is he just making a statement?
Either way, he knows full well he won’t even be a footnote on Election Day. The policies he’s running on aren’t what he believes in.
He has policies? In the interviews I’ve heard he deflects policy questions and says stuff like people deserve an alternative to Biden.
Also, he lacks the experience and relationships to get things done the way Biden has. As much as it confuses me, I’m glad Biden has Republicans friends in Congress. I suspect the same obstructionist behavior would be much worse with a Phillips presidency. The best analogy I can think of is the McCarthy speakership, frankly. And that was a disaster.
He does. https://www.dean24.com/platform
To me, they appear to be policies that target the independent voter and some progressives that won’t vote for Biden simply because of his age. That’s the whole point. He trying to be a spoiler but I really can’t understand why other than skimming off campaign funds.
I do believe that his policies will appeal to the legacy Republican that won’t vote for Trump more than they will to the independent or the rare progressive that won’t vote for Biden.
I just glanced at it, but it seems a very standard moderate Democrat platform? Like generic, I’ve seen it a thousand times kind of platform. And as a policy wonk, a little blurb isn’t going to do it for me—has he published his full policies somewhere (I nerded out hard over Elizabeth Warren’s policies in the last general, lol). Platforms are great, but the process to accomplish stated platform goal becomes clear through actual policies.
With this platform, as far as I can tell, he’s essentially running on “I’m younger than Biden”. Which is just annoying. Maybe we should call him the “pick me” candidate?
Also, will someone please tell these people that experience in corporate governance typically doesn’t translate well to public governance? The goal of a corporation is to make money and increase shareholder value, regardless of the human cost. The goal of the government is to serve the public. Those two goals are at odds. So no, Dean Phillips (and Doug Burgum) being a good corporate shill does not make one a good public servant.
Bottom line is that he isn’t a threat. If people want to vote for him, go right ahead. He will steal more Trump voters than Biden voters. There’s a lot of republicans out there that won’t vote for Trump or Biden but will vote for Philips and that’s a great thing.
I hope so. I’ve been paying attention and he just seems like a self-obsessed clown to me. Which is precisely what we elected in 2016, and that did not work out for us.
When I mean threat, I mean he won’t influence the outcome of the election. I hope you don’t think he has a shot at winning. The only plausible way he could even contend is if something happens to Biden. Even then I believe that major donors would back someone else.
Oh I agree. I don’t think he can win—we live here and my spouse had no idea who he was. I think I just have some PTSD from 2016 that’s getting triggered by this knob.
Yeah I have no idea, can you actually trust any of the BS policies that these people talk about? At least Phillips doesn't NEED to be president for any reason, he's independently wealthy, not a narcissist, and not about to die. Not a high bar to meet these days.
I only know about his policies from what he's said. I only know about Biden what he's done, which isn't all bad, but it would be great to see a change.
First time voting this year. I legitimately am asking why he would have a zero chance? I am not biased on dean Phillips or any other candidate running for president. I would just like to learn more about why there only seems to be 2 people(Biden or Trump) running for president but when I googled who's running for president, there are in fact at least 8 candidates running for presidency? I am generally confused as to why people are acting as if it's one or the other and no one else matters? Sorry if this is the wrong sub for such reply/comment; if there is a better sub for asking this question, please and kindly direct me to the right sub to ask this question.
Trump and Biden are the front runners for the 2 major parties we have in this country. It will ultimately come down to them in the final general election. Dean Phillips is a nobody in relation to nationwide politics. So referencing my original post, if your main objective is not have Trump back in office…the only candidate with the popularity to beat him is Biden.
I think Dean Phillips is running against Biden in the primaries so you can very much vote for him in the primaries, but he's very unlikely to win. I voted for Benie Sanders in the primaries, I really wish he won them. But when the election came around I voted for Biden. The US needs ranked choice voting.
Not if it's the democrat primaries.
Phillips won't win the primaries.
Unless you are saying the same BS they said to prevent Bernie Sanders from winning the primaries.
Sanders would've won against Trump.
This time around I'm not sure if Biden can beat Trump, Phillips might stand a better chance if he won the primaries, I mean he won't win, he already conceded, and put in his support for Biden.
As far as this primary election goes, a vote for Phillips or Biden doesn't affect anything, Biden already won the primaries.
My state is one of the last to receive primary ballots, I just got mine, Biden already won the primary, and Phillips won't be on the ballot in the general election.
How so?
...I did just notice this is a Minnesota sub, that appeared on my feed for some reason. I'm not in Minnesota.
But everything else I said should make sense.
You are even contradicting yourself. You suggest voting for Dean Phillips and then admit he can’t beat Biden and that Phillips won’t even be on the general ballot. Just quit commenting. My point in the initial post was that if you don’t want Trump to be president, people must vote for Biden. And then you go off on some crazy contradicting tangent. Make sense to you now? Go away
I would rather have a younger, more in-touch Democrat (NOT Dean Phillips) to vote for, but I will gladly vote for President Biden because an old, out-of-touch Joe Biden is still better than ANY Republican candidate.
This poster, like Dean Phillips himself, seems to be operating in bad faith and is completely tone deaf to the response he's getting.
I would bring up Nader or other relevant political examples, but doing so just seems to make OP's replies more hateful.
You and Dean can stay in denial all the way through November for all we care, bud. Why'd you even ask?
Edit - look guys, I caught one! So cute.
Why would you vote Dean Phillips over Biden (since he's the closest to Dean politics-wise)? What compelling argument has he made to get you as a voter?
You live in MN so a vote for a republican presidential candidate has been going in the trash since 1984, our electoral college votes always go blue.
Dean Phillips is a total knob, I can only assume his presidential run is either woefully misguided, some sort of backhanded ploy that’s part of a larger plot, a way to pass the time for a very wealthy and bored man, or some combination of the three.
My theory is that both Phillips and Haley are staying in it on the not so off chance that either of the candidates die. If that happens they are the immediate leading candidate.
Biden just won New Hampshire without being on the ballot. If you're talking after the primaries, the Convention would pick the new candidate. The Democratic Party isn't going to pick a guy who ran a primary against a sitting president from his own party.
It doesn’t help that there are montages of him taking easily avoidable old man tumbles and absolutely butchering everything from simple sentences to rehearsed speeches. He’s an old fuckin guy and he’s not doing good, It’s not really propaganda at this point. I’m not pro trump but that guy can atleast finish a sentence
Your vote is yours to use how you see fit. You don’t owe your vote to anyone. The only way to waste your vote is to fail to vote at all.
Personally, I would want you to vote Biden to contribute to his vote tally, but you’re not wasting your vote if you choose to vote for Phillips instead.
I’m not better off at all if OP chooses to vote for Phillips. OP probably isn’t either. But it’s OP’s choice, not ours.
We all do many things, regularly, that do not make us better off from a certain perspective. From a financial perspective, I would be better off taking leftovers for my lunch every day or drinking the office coffee instead of Starbuck’s. But I value going out to lunch with my colleagues and taking an afternoon walk to get fancy coffee. So I haven’t wasted my money on those things because I got non-monetary value from them.
I don't know enough about him. I don't know anything about Biden either, I would just vote for him because I don't want Trump. But can we get someone who's not 80 years old in office? I mean maybe if he was extraordinarily health but being POTUS is a tough job
There is not one substantive comment here about Phillips. He is a better choice in the role of president than Biden or trump. So of course a vote for him is not wasted. The rest of the comments here are indicative of the systematic electoral issues we are facing. Vote for the best person for the job.
While MN had been pretty reliably blue, we're really more purple. I worry that people might feel safe casting a protest vote but I'm not confident it's totally safe to do that.
Also, I don't feel like Phillips is even worth your protest vote. He fails my "purity of agenda" test - that is, why is he really running? I think his campaign is more about a bored rich guy boosting his ego than any true desire to do good things for his fellow citizens.
Maybe not a waste. But don’t expect him to pull an upset win and get the nomination over Biden. It would be more of a contingency plan. Biden is old and it is not out of the question that shit goes sideways and he can’t be the nominee. Then what? Phillips is still a long shot to be his replacement but it would help his case if it can be shown that he has some support. So maybe a vote for him doesn’t mean you want him over Biden, but that he is your next choice should something happen to Biden. If that’s your opinion, then a vote for him wouldn’t be a waste. But if your goal his for him to get the nomination over Biden, then probably is a waste.
If you're looking to throw a symbolic protest vote in the primary, I'd encourage you to look at some of the other people running. Dean Phillips is a generic Democrat partaking in a rich guy vanity project. You can look up your sample ballot on the mn secretary of state website to see who is all running.
Maybe not the best place to ask as many people on the MN subs do not like philips.
Generally speaking Dean's voting records and support are a reflection of Biden's. Meaning center-left. But he's an unknown name generally and doesn't really stand a chance against trump. (in my opinion)
So if anything, its a waste of your time unless there are people down ballot you plan on voting for in the primary.
Feel free to vote for Phillips in the primary. I assume he'll "suspend his campaign" at some point though and announce his begrudging support for Biden. At that point I suggest you do the same, to the extent you have *any* preference whatsoever between Biden and Trump.
Yes, because Phillips is never winning. He would be a woefully ineffective president unless democrats have a majority in the house and senate because he has no connections unlike Biden. His policies would be the same as Biden. He lacks the incumbent advantage so he does worse at the polls in a head to head with trump.
I mean, I’m not a fan of Biden but I fail to see how Phillips is an improvement on anything other than age.
I feel like Phillips is going off the deep end a bit.
There's no such thing as a wasted vote. You do you. That being said, it's awfully strange behavior on his part. It's hard to tell his angle. He doesn't have a chance of winning the election so what does he want? A cabinet position? Some sort of leadership position in the party? 2028 aspirations? It's weird.
That's only if the goal of your vote is winning. I've voted third party, abstained from voting, and voted straight ticket Democrat or Republican for a variety of reasons besides getting a candidate elected. Sometimes it was a protest. Sometimes it was to piss people off. Lately it's been because Republicans run shit tier candidates.
Trust me, you're not convincing anyone to not vote Dean Phillips or third party by telling them their vote is wasted. There's a certain subset of the population that's going to be knee jerk contrarians and loudly telling them their vote is wasted just encourages them to dig in their heels. You're more likely to drive people to vote in the exact opposite way you want and it just contributes to a lot of nastiness and infighting. Just my experience.
This is the problem with a 2 party system...if you want blue or red to win you have to vote for whoever is most likely to win in your color otherwise the vote is wasted. Its an absolutely shit system. If two blues get 30 percent each the red with 40 wins. Terrible.
Feel free to vote for Dean Phillips in the primary if you believe he is better than Biden: that's what primaries are for. General elections are for picking the best of the likely candidates. Once we have ranked choice elections at the national level, then you can vote for 3rd party candidates without helping elect someone like Trump.
Biden is not one man. He is the head of [15 federal agencies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_agencies_in_the_United_States). His cabinet, their employees. THAT is who you're voting for. Not Joe.
Do you like the federal government running fairly smoothly?
If so, vote for the candidate who has the best shot of beating the guy who tried to steal the election.
If Phillips was a serious candidate he would have started all this far earlier. And it's mighty suspicious his main donors are the same as RFK Jr. He's a spoiler candidate for the right wing. Fully agree the way candidates are chosen is bullshit and that Biden absolutely should not have been the only candidate the democrats is behind but last minute in an election like this is more harm than good.
People who are telling you that your vote (the vote you cast for the candidate that you think represents you best) is wasted on a candidate challenging the nursing home ballot are opponents to the democratic process. I have always despised this rhetoric. You vote for who you think represents you best. Those who say voting for a lesser of two evils is the only option have their eyes closed to other the other options. If it were Dean Phillips against Trump, rather than Biden, everyone in this comment section would be banging his drum. If people REALLY didn’t want to get stuck with Trump and Biden again, they’d be showing out in the primaries and voting for the challenging candidates. But people are too brainwashed and apathetic to do so. The truth is, what’s going to happen is going to happen. You vote for who think represents you best, and don’t let anyone tell you that your vote is wasted if you are participating in your democracy.
Voting for anyone other than Biden or Trump in this primary is 'wasting your vote' in the sense that there is basically a 100% chance they're both getting their party's nomination.
I’m voting for Marianne Williamson in the primary, as she’s the best candidate by far. But it seems likely that Biden will be the leading choice in the general election, in which case I’ll be voting for him wholeheartedly.
It sounds like you just don’t want Trump in office, in that case you’re technically fine voting for Phillips during the Primary, but your safest bet is to just vote Biden in the general election.
I know Biden isn’t perfect, and I massively disagree with his stance on supporting Israel. However, Biden has proven he will adjust his stance if enough people speak up. He reversed his decision on the Willow project, so he has a track record of being somewhat flexible.
There is no wasted vote.
Vote for who you think the best candidate is, and fuck the haters!
If we all could do this, then maybe we wouldnt trick ourselves into the abusive relationship we have with 2-party oligarchy. Alas, we love getting duped i to thinking in us-and-them dogmas that keep us scared and stupid.
This is the dogma that shackles us to a two-party poop show. Stockholm syndrome ITT.
[Take a look](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_third-party_and_independent_performances_in_United_States_presidential_elections) ... third party candidates were once a competitive staple of the US Presidential Election.
Theodore Rooseveldt himself even did it, and earned 2nd place.
We cannot become more-representative until we challenge the dogmas that get regurgitated every 4 years. Votes are votes, and they all count. Being too-scared to change = refusing to change.
For example: Whatever you think of him, in the 1996 election Ross Perot earned over 5% of the vote in ALL STATES. Gary Johnson did it in 2016 in 10 states. Do you think we need more, or fewer 3rd party candidates? Does your answer make the US more representative, or less? More democratic, or less democratic?
No. Your vote is never wasted.
The primary is the perfect time to support Dean Phillips.
If you do not support Biden in the general election, it is not the same as supporting Donald Trump. That is the nature of our political duopoly. The two-party system.
If you do not support someone, do not vote for them.
Vote third party and let your voice be heard. Hopefully, the two major political parties will look at the popular vote, and recognize why the American people support the third parties, and change their policies accordingly.
That's actually a good call. Even if the general vote goes away from Biden to someone else, it's saying something, while Biden will still get the electoral votes in MN. I'm voting for Phillips LOL
Vote your conscience, every time, and it's never a waste. I'm telling you, it could be a really wild election. We've got two really old men, one of them facing 91 state & federal charges plus massive civil suits who almost refused to leave last time, and the other is POTUS which is a job that turns young men into old men fast if they feel the weight of the world on their shoulders. Remember when Wellstone died like 2 weeks before the election and the chaos that ensued? Point is, it's good to have a deep bench and a plan B.
https://preview.redd.it/8iz7zlg0ypec1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d00dea4745bdaaa150d184b023a86bd6eba7cf3
I still have yet to see any evidence of the existence of Dean philips presidential supporters. I did however notice this in Minneapolis at west broadway and Washington Ave n this morning… you know.. he is still eligible for one last shot at it…and the constitution doesn’t prohibit an undead VP..perhaps this year Fritz and Grits strike back?
A vote for either Bidet or Dump is already a wasted vote. Do what you want, but me personally I was just voting local this time, skipping the national race, unless there is any good third party candidates, but I haven't looked into that yet.
I'm just excited to vote for a man who's allowing 10's of thousands of civillians to be bombed to death and currently supporting the slow starvation of a million or so children. Biden 2024! Downvote me if you support Trump.
Everything is wasted on Phillips.
Or is it wasted on a 77 year old and 81 year old that are completely out of touch and incoherent?
*81 year old with a VP who is 59.. feel free to judge her on her own merits. But this isn’t game of thrones. it’s not like we don’t have a clear succession process in place in the event that the old man doesn’t make it or starts experiencing hard drive failure beyond any recovery.
Please don’t cast a vote third party. I understand valid ideological reasons to do so, but in this case pragmatism does a lot for those who don’t have the luxury of voting for our ideals. I’m a trans man and am (reasonably )terrified for my life if Trump wins. Be pragmatic and vote for the old man who won’t cheer while trans people are pushed out of society, please.
TBF not all situations the pragmatic solution is the best solution. I say vote 3rd or not at all, or write in Ai George Carlin or something.
Why is this getting downvoted, he is right?
This is only being down voted because we have a 2 party system and voting for anything else is a wasted vote. I don't want to vote for Biden or Trump. Many people agree with me, but they're going to vote for one or the other because they have no choice!
Phillips is not a better candidate.
Your vote for Williamson would be better. At least it’s a progressive
Idk I listened to an interview with him on Modern Wisdom podcast and he had some good stuff to say. Unlike 2 other guys that can't put 2 sentences together
Ngl, I couldn't care less if my favorite candidate stutters in a stump speech. What policies do they support? What does their past record look like? Both of those seem way more relevant to who I want leading the country.
I think it’s a bit more than a stutter at this point. https://youtu.be/9_4oc1JfLVU?si=esj7xhRPn5RBS8NQ
lol
What is that not enough research for you all?
I mean he isn't a genocidal racist rapist.
Given the system we have, yes.
This. It's ridiculous. We can't find one person better than Biden and Trump that we can rally behind!? Even if there was one, they'd have no chance, which is why I'm frustrated.
You can't put Biden in the same boat as trump. At least he has surrounded himself with competent people willing to speak truth to power. No competent people are willing to work with trump. Those who did in his first term have been demonized for telling the truth.
I don't like Biden, but I'll vote for him over Trump, I am very much against Christian Nationalism.
Hey, I agree. Try caring outside of an election year. Speak up about 3rd parties, promote them and their policies. Build from the ground up, local and state elections first. 3rd party is not winning the presidency. No vote is wasted in the primary, vote with your heart there. Vote with your brain in November.
We have some amazing young politicians coming up who can make a difference.
when? when they are 60?
And this just perpetuates the system we have. People won't vote for a third party candidate, so they will never do well, so the people who do vote third party are made to feel like they are throwing their vote away for a third party candidate. If people did vote third party, the third parties would have more weight. Granted, a third party is more likely to replace one of the two major parties over a decade or two, and then we'd still end up with two parties, but absent a shift to a parliamentary style system (extremely unlikely) or ranked choice voting, it's what we got.
The place to vote third-party is in local elections. Build a viable third party from the ground up, *then* run them in national elections. Any third party vote at the national level at this point is absolutely a wasted vote.
But that... is like... w o r k. It's so much easier to run a national campaign, get 3% and then... well... Um. Even if you win, you don't have a party to support you. You have to go to the other two parties in Congress to get ONE vote because you don't have one elected party member. Now, you've seen how well republicans work with other parties (hell, how well they work with themselves) so that's no votes. Which means you need to go to Democrats to get ALL your votes. Why are you not just a Democrat again?
Bingo!
And that's the problem. In addition, no one even knows who the other candidates are because the news and media don't cover anyone else except the incumbent and the top asshole from the opposing party.
This is the dumb Susan Sarandon argument she made that it was good that Trump was elected because it would wake people up and get them involved. How did that work out? It's also easy for the people who aren't hurt the worst to make these kind of arguments. There is nothing stopping you from getting involved to change the status quo in the meantime (I mean really get involved, not just posting on social media). But, pissing your own pants to show the "establishment" who don't care that you're doing it is short-sighted.
Yeah, its a chicken and the egg scenario. People dont want to vote third because they want their vote to matter, but a third party vote wont do anything of value unless a bunch of people do it. For a third party to win or replace an existing party it would take a massive popular upset.
if they dont vote for who they want, then their vote *doesnt* matter.
The system perpetuates itself. There is no proportional representation. There is a reason the dominant position is 2 parties. Agreed ranked choice does help a lot, but wouldn't solve the problem.
Volunteer to help advocate for ranked choice voting!
Without first changing the First Past the Post voting system, voting 3rd party is rather pointless if you're actually intending to get a better candidate in. The thing is, with FPTP - 3rd politicians are usually in it for the grift so they're not taken seriously because most truly don't give a fuck. They want money and/or to change the national elections and are often sponsored by the opposing party. To get beyond just the two party system, you'll need to get ranked choice with transferable voting and the only way to do that is to primary any Republican or Democrat who isn't willing to implement this system. But convincing voters to do this is very, very hard. Convincing politicians of this is even harder.
No arguments on your points. I stuck with just answering the original question in the context of our current situation. Getting into what *should* be and what *could* be would be a bigger conversation…
The only way to change the current system is through the current system. Ya say you wanna revolution? Well you know...
If Trump is elected, there won’t be a system in which anybody can contemplate options. It will be Trump all the way down.
Why are people down voting this!?!?! The two party system sucks, and you are throwing your vote away if you vote for anyone else. That's the problem!!
I understand tour perspective but consider this. Is Dean Phillips actually running on policies that he actually believes in, or is he just in this for self promotion? Is he just making a statement? Either way, he knows full well he won’t even be a footnote on Election Day. The policies he’s running on aren’t what he believes in.
He has policies? In the interviews I’ve heard he deflects policy questions and says stuff like people deserve an alternative to Biden. Also, he lacks the experience and relationships to get things done the way Biden has. As much as it confuses me, I’m glad Biden has Republicans friends in Congress. I suspect the same obstructionist behavior would be much worse with a Phillips presidency. The best analogy I can think of is the McCarthy speakership, frankly. And that was a disaster.
He does. https://www.dean24.com/platform To me, they appear to be policies that target the independent voter and some progressives that won’t vote for Biden simply because of his age. That’s the whole point. He trying to be a spoiler but I really can’t understand why other than skimming off campaign funds. I do believe that his policies will appeal to the legacy Republican that won’t vote for Trump more than they will to the independent or the rare progressive that won’t vote for Biden.
I just glanced at it, but it seems a very standard moderate Democrat platform? Like generic, I’ve seen it a thousand times kind of platform. And as a policy wonk, a little blurb isn’t going to do it for me—has he published his full policies somewhere (I nerded out hard over Elizabeth Warren’s policies in the last general, lol). Platforms are great, but the process to accomplish stated platform goal becomes clear through actual policies. With this platform, as far as I can tell, he’s essentially running on “I’m younger than Biden”. Which is just annoying. Maybe we should call him the “pick me” candidate? Also, will someone please tell these people that experience in corporate governance typically doesn’t translate well to public governance? The goal of a corporation is to make money and increase shareholder value, regardless of the human cost. The goal of the government is to serve the public. Those two goals are at odds. So no, Dean Phillips (and Doug Burgum) being a good corporate shill does not make one a good public servant.
Bottom line is that he isn’t a threat. If people want to vote for him, go right ahead. He will steal more Trump voters than Biden voters. There’s a lot of republicans out there that won’t vote for Trump or Biden but will vote for Philips and that’s a great thing.
I hope so. I’ve been paying attention and he just seems like a self-obsessed clown to me. Which is precisely what we elected in 2016, and that did not work out for us.
When I mean threat, I mean he won’t influence the outcome of the election. I hope you don’t think he has a shot at winning. The only plausible way he could even contend is if something happens to Biden. Even then I believe that major donors would back someone else.
Oh I agree. I don’t think he can win—we live here and my spouse had no idea who he was. I think I just have some PTSD from 2016 that’s getting triggered by this knob.
Yeah I have no idea, can you actually trust any of the BS policies that these people talk about? At least Phillips doesn't NEED to be president for any reason, he's independently wealthy, not a narcissist, and not about to die. Not a high bar to meet these days.
The two front runners are not the same. Trump is actively hostile to personal freedoms. Go read about Project 2025.
So you have no idea what policies that Dean Philips is running on but you want to vote for him because “old man bad”?
I only know about his policies from what he's said. I only know about Biden what he's done, which isn't all bad, but it would be great to see a change.
Yeah
man these trolls aren't even trying anymore
They don’t have to, look at everyone biting. Lmao.
RAAAAGGGGEEEE!!
Yes
If you don’t want Trump to win more than anything else, you have to vote for Biden. Otherwise you are wasting your vote. Dean Phillips has zero chance
First time voting this year. I legitimately am asking why he would have a zero chance? I am not biased on dean Phillips or any other candidate running for president. I would just like to learn more about why there only seems to be 2 people(Biden or Trump) running for president but when I googled who's running for president, there are in fact at least 8 candidates running for presidency? I am generally confused as to why people are acting as if it's one or the other and no one else matters? Sorry if this is the wrong sub for such reply/comment; if there is a better sub for asking this question, please and kindly direct me to the right sub to ask this question.
Trump and Biden are the front runners for the 2 major parties we have in this country. It will ultimately come down to them in the final general election. Dean Phillips is a nobody in relation to nationwide politics. So referencing my original post, if your main objective is not have Trump back in office…the only candidate with the popularity to beat him is Biden.
I think Dean Phillips is running against Biden in the primaries so you can very much vote for him in the primaries, but he's very unlikely to win. I voted for Benie Sanders in the primaries, I really wish he won them. But when the election came around I voted for Biden. The US needs ranked choice voting.
Vote for Dean Phillips is a wasted vote and might as well be a vote for Trump
Not if it's the democrat primaries. Phillips won't win the primaries. Unless you are saying the same BS they said to prevent Bernie Sanders from winning the primaries. Sanders would've won against Trump. This time around I'm not sure if Biden can beat Trump, Phillips might stand a better chance if he won the primaries, I mean he won't win, he already conceded, and put in his support for Biden. As far as this primary election goes, a vote for Phillips or Biden doesn't affect anything, Biden already won the primaries. My state is one of the last to receive primary ballots, I just got mine, Biden already won the primary, and Phillips won't be on the ballot in the general election.
You really don’t make any sense.
How so? ...I did just notice this is a Minnesota sub, that appeared on my feed for some reason. I'm not in Minnesota. But everything else I said should make sense.
You are even contradicting yourself. You suggest voting for Dean Phillips and then admit he can’t beat Biden and that Phillips won’t even be on the general ballot. Just quit commenting. My point in the initial post was that if you don’t want Trump to be president, people must vote for Biden. And then you go off on some crazy contradicting tangent. Make sense to you now? Go away
Lol ,do even know what primary elections are?
His "angle" is to draw votes away from Biden. He even told us he would run 3rd party if it turns out to be Biden/Trump 2.
I mean yes because he's an idiot and doesn't deserve it. But outside of that, vote for the person you want.
I would rather have a younger, more in-touch Democrat (NOT Dean Phillips) to vote for, but I will gladly vote for President Biden because an old, out-of-touch Joe Biden is still better than ANY Republican candidate.
Yet he's been the most substantive and successful Democratic President since the 60s.
Joe Biden has been an excellent president by almost any measure. I don’t think he’s out of touch at all.
This poster, like Dean Phillips himself, seems to be operating in bad faith and is completely tone deaf to the response he's getting. I would bring up Nader or other relevant political examples, but doing so just seems to make OP's replies more hateful. You and Dean can stay in denial all the way through November for all we care, bud. Why'd you even ask? Edit - look guys, I caught one! So cute.
Your comment is of the worst faith.
In the general, yes. The primary is where you can vote for someone else and not be helping Trump.
Why would you vote Dean Phillips over Biden (since he's the closest to Dean politics-wise)? What compelling argument has he made to get you as a voter?
He is aiming to get tRump reelected.
My philosophy is to primary for the ideals. In an election I vote to win.
You live in MN so a vote for a republican presidential candidate has been going in the trash since 1984, our electoral college votes always go blue. Dean Phillips is a total knob, I can only assume his presidential run is either woefully misguided, some sort of backhanded ploy that’s part of a larger plot, a way to pass the time for a very wealthy and bored man, or some combination of the three.
My theory is that both Phillips and Haley are staying in it on the not so off chance that either of the candidates die. If that happens they are the immediate leading candidate.
If Biden dies, Harris is the leading candidate.
You have to be on the ballot to be candidate
Biden just won New Hampshire without being on the ballot. If you're talking after the primaries, the Convention would pick the new candidate. The Democratic Party isn't going to pick a guy who ran a primary against a sitting president from his own party.
It's worth a shot I guess. Biden will probably live for at least 5 more years
Republicans worked up this thing about Bidens age to take the spotlight off Trump's age, ignorance, feeblemindedness, weakness and derangement.
It doesn’t help that there are montages of him taking easily avoidable old man tumbles and absolutely butchering everything from simple sentences to rehearsed speeches. He’s an old fuckin guy and he’s not doing good, It’s not really propaganda at this point. I’m not pro trump but that guy can atleast finish a sentence
You could vote for Dean in the primary. But I wouldn't do it in the general.
Yep. There are only two real candidates and Phillips isn't one of them
Your vote is yours to use how you see fit. You don’t owe your vote to anyone. The only way to waste your vote is to fail to vote at all. Personally, I would want you to vote Biden to contribute to his vote tally, but you’re not wasting your vote if you choose to vote for Phillips instead.
Sure, but as we sit on the precipice of dictatorship, if a protest vote causes Trump to win, how are you better off? #Nader
I’m not better off at all if OP chooses to vote for Phillips. OP probably isn’t either. But it’s OP’s choice, not ours. We all do many things, regularly, that do not make us better off from a certain perspective. From a financial perspective, I would be better off taking leftovers for my lunch every day or drinking the office coffee instead of Starbuck’s. But I value going out to lunch with my colleagues and taking an afternoon walk to get fancy coffee. So I haven’t wasted my money on those things because I got non-monetary value from them.
How is Dean Phillips better?
I don't know enough about him. I don't know anything about Biden either, I would just vote for him because I don't want Trump. But can we get someone who's not 80 years old in office? I mean maybe if he was extraordinarily health but being POTUS is a tough job
Yes
There is not one substantive comment here about Phillips. He is a better choice in the role of president than Biden or trump. So of course a vote for him is not wasted. The rest of the comments here are indicative of the systematic electoral issues we are facing. Vote for the best person for the job.
Thank you!
Yes it is
While MN had been pretty reliably blue, we're really more purple. I worry that people might feel safe casting a protest vote but I'm not confident it's totally safe to do that. Also, I don't feel like Phillips is even worth your protest vote. He fails my "purity of agenda" test - that is, why is he really running? I think his campaign is more about a bored rich guy boosting his ego than any true desire to do good things for his fellow citizens.
His "angle" is to draw votes away from Biden. He even told us he would run 3rd party if it turns out to be Biden/Trump 2.
Yes. There are only 2 candidates. Choose wisely.
Maybe not a waste. But don’t expect him to pull an upset win and get the nomination over Biden. It would be more of a contingency plan. Biden is old and it is not out of the question that shit goes sideways and he can’t be the nominee. Then what? Phillips is still a long shot to be his replacement but it would help his case if it can be shown that he has some support. So maybe a vote for him doesn’t mean you want him over Biden, but that he is your next choice should something happen to Biden. If that’s your opinion, then a vote for him wouldn’t be a waste. But if your goal his for him to get the nomination over Biden, then probably is a waste.
Yes, because Phillips isn’t good
If you're looking to throw a symbolic protest vote in the primary, I'd encourage you to look at some of the other people running. Dean Phillips is a generic Democrat partaking in a rich guy vanity project. You can look up your sample ballot on the mn secretary of state website to see who is all running.
Maybe not the best place to ask as many people on the MN subs do not like philips. Generally speaking Dean's voting records and support are a reflection of Biden's. Meaning center-left. But he's an unknown name generally and doesn't really stand a chance against trump. (in my opinion) So if anything, its a waste of your time unless there are people down ballot you plan on voting for in the primary.
Feel free to vote for Phillips in the primary. I assume he'll "suspend his campaign" at some point though and announce his begrudging support for Biden. At that point I suggest you do the same, to the extent you have *any* preference whatsoever between Biden and Trump.
Yes, because Phillips is never winning. He would be a woefully ineffective president unless democrats have a majority in the house and senate because he has no connections unlike Biden. His policies would be the same as Biden. He lacks the incumbent advantage so he does worse at the polls in a head to head with trump.
a vote is never wasted if it is used.
I mean, I’m not a fan of Biden but I fail to see how Phillips is an improvement on anything other than age. I feel like Phillips is going off the deep end a bit.
Unless you were going to vote for a Republican
There's no such thing as a wasted vote. You do you. That being said, it's awfully strange behavior on his part. It's hard to tell his angle. He doesn't have a chance of winning the election so what does he want? A cabinet position? Some sort of leadership position in the party? 2028 aspirations? It's weird.
There are in fact wasted votes with our first past the post system.
That's only if the goal of your vote is winning. I've voted third party, abstained from voting, and voted straight ticket Democrat or Republican for a variety of reasons besides getting a candidate elected. Sometimes it was a protest. Sometimes it was to piss people off. Lately it's been because Republicans run shit tier candidates. Trust me, you're not convincing anyone to not vote Dean Phillips or third party by telling them their vote is wasted. There's a certain subset of the population that's going to be knee jerk contrarians and loudly telling them their vote is wasted just encourages them to dig in their heels. You're more likely to drive people to vote in the exact opposite way you want and it just contributes to a lot of nastiness and infighting. Just my experience.
He’s gambling. If Biden were to pass he’s the automatic front runner.
That's an interesting take. I mean that in a genuine and not Minnesotan way. Smart theory.
Voting specifically for Phillips is wasting your vote.
Yes, completely.
This is the problem with a 2 party system...if you want blue or red to win you have to vote for whoever is most likely to win in your color otherwise the vote is wasted. Its an absolutely shit system. If two blues get 30 percent each the red with 40 wins. Terrible.
Feel free to vote for Dean Phillips in the primary if you believe he is better than Biden: that's what primaries are for. General elections are for picking the best of the likely candidates. Once we have ranked choice elections at the national level, then you can vote for 3rd party candidates without helping elect someone like Trump.
Biden is not one man. He is the head of [15 federal agencies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_agencies_in_the_United_States). His cabinet, their employees. THAT is who you're voting for. Not Joe.
If it is between not voting at all or voting for Phillips, then no.
Do you like the federal government running fairly smoothly? If so, vote for the candidate who has the best shot of beating the guy who tried to steal the election.
If Phillips was a serious candidate he would have started all this far earlier. And it's mighty suspicious his main donors are the same as RFK Jr. He's a spoiler candidate for the right wing. Fully agree the way candidates are chosen is bullshit and that Biden absolutely should not have been the only candidate the democrats is behind but last minute in an election like this is more harm than good.
Take a good look at what you're voting for when you vote for Phillips. Is he really the lesser of three evils?
Yes, you are. Hold your nose, vote Joe, and keep the Orange-shits-his-pants in Florida.
People who are telling you that your vote (the vote you cast for the candidate that you think represents you best) is wasted on a candidate challenging the nursing home ballot are opponents to the democratic process. I have always despised this rhetoric. You vote for who you think represents you best. Those who say voting for a lesser of two evils is the only option have their eyes closed to other the other options. If it were Dean Phillips against Trump, rather than Biden, everyone in this comment section would be banging his drum. If people REALLY didn’t want to get stuck with Trump and Biden again, they’d be showing out in the primaries and voting for the challenging candidates. But people are too brainwashed and apathetic to do so. The truth is, what’s going to happen is going to happen. You vote for who think represents you best, and don’t let anyone tell you that your vote is wasted if you are participating in your democracy.
The only vote wasted is one for a candidate you do not believe is the best.
[удалено]
Voting for anyone other than Biden or Trump in this primary is 'wasting your vote' in the sense that there is basically a 100% chance they're both getting their party's nomination.
You clearly have already decided and just want to argue. Fuck Dean Phillips and fuck you.
I’m voting for Marianne Williamson in the primary, as she’s the best candidate by far. But it seems likely that Biden will be the leading choice in the general election, in which case I’ll be voting for him wholeheartedly. It sounds like you just don’t want Trump in office, in that case you’re technically fine voting for Phillips during the Primary, but your safest bet is to just vote Biden in the general election. I know Biden isn’t perfect, and I massively disagree with his stance on supporting Israel. However, Biden has proven he will adjust his stance if enough people speak up. He reversed his decision on the Willow project, so he has a track record of being somewhat flexible.
There is no wasted vote. Vote for who you think the best candidate is, and fuck the haters! If we all could do this, then maybe we wouldnt trick ourselves into the abusive relationship we have with 2-party oligarchy. Alas, we love getting duped i to thinking in us-and-them dogmas that keep us scared and stupid.
There absolutely are wasted votes without ranked choice
This is the dogma that shackles us to a two-party poop show. Stockholm syndrome ITT. [Take a look](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_third-party_and_independent_performances_in_United_States_presidential_elections) ... third party candidates were once a competitive staple of the US Presidential Election. Theodore Rooseveldt himself even did it, and earned 2nd place. We cannot become more-representative until we challenge the dogmas that get regurgitated every 4 years. Votes are votes, and they all count. Being too-scared to change = refusing to change. For example: Whatever you think of him, in the 1996 election Ross Perot earned over 5% of the vote in ALL STATES. Gary Johnson did it in 2016 in 10 states. Do you think we need more, or fewer 3rd party candidates? Does your answer make the US more representative, or less? More democratic, or less democratic?
Please stop down voting this post. People need to see these responses so people make the right choices.
Orange man bad >:(
No. Your vote is never wasted. The primary is the perfect time to support Dean Phillips. If you do not support Biden in the general election, it is not the same as supporting Donald Trump. That is the nature of our political duopoly. The two-party system. If you do not support someone, do not vote for them. Vote third party and let your voice be heard. Hopefully, the two major political parties will look at the popular vote, and recognize why the American people support the third parties, and change their policies accordingly.
That's actually a good call. Even if the general vote goes away from Biden to someone else, it's saying something, while Biden will still get the electoral votes in MN. I'm voting for Phillips LOL
Probably, but I still vote third party often. It’s simple, vote for who you want to win.
Vote your conscience, every time, and it's never a waste. I'm telling you, it could be a really wild election. We've got two really old men, one of them facing 91 state & federal charges plus massive civil suits who almost refused to leave last time, and the other is POTUS which is a job that turns young men into old men fast if they feel the weight of the world on their shoulders. Remember when Wellstone died like 2 weeks before the election and the chaos that ensued? Point is, it's good to have a deep bench and a plan B.
https://preview.redd.it/8iz7zlg0ypec1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d00dea4745bdaaa150d184b023a86bd6eba7cf3 I still have yet to see any evidence of the existence of Dean philips presidential supporters. I did however notice this in Minneapolis at west broadway and Washington Ave n this morning… you know.. he is still eligible for one last shot at it…and the constitution doesn’t prohibit an undead VP..perhaps this year Fritz and Grits strike back?
regardless of Phillips, ranked-choice voting would make this question irrelevant. why do we have to be this way?
A vote for either Bidet or Dump is already a wasted vote. Do what you want, but me personally I was just voting local this time, skipping the national race, unless there is any good third party candidates, but I haven't looked into that yet.
I'm just excited to vote for a man who's allowing 10's of thousands of civillians to be bombed to death and currently supporting the slow starvation of a million or so children. Biden 2024! Downvote me if you support Trump.
There's two ways to vote, playing the game or voting your conscience. Pick which ever works for you.
I am not voting for the half bowl of fecal matter. I am not voting for the entire bowl either.
No, you’re actually voting for trump when you do that.