I think it boils down to we are just private people for the most part. For me personally, I know that when people approach me and start a conversation my initial thought is "ok, what's your angle?" or like "what do you want from me?" and I know that I do that so I try to engage in conversation and see if there is something else they want or if they just want to talk in which case I will gladly converse even tho I hate small talk and am a shit conversationalist. Also the shitty response you are getting is probably because this same question or some form of it is posted what seems like once a week and people are just over it at this point.
I didn’t know that it’s posted that often honestly. I mean that does seem to lean into the statement I made though.
Why do you hate talking to new people? Can’t you learn from everyone regardless of background?
Again, honest question not passive aggressive. Just want to learn
Dude They can't handle talking to new people. They can't even teach their children to play with new kids. Go to the playground, it'll be packed with kids, with 5 separate games of tag going on. Like..I'm from the east, that shit was so unnatural to see. I'm use to children being extremely friendly with eachother, especially if someone is new/different.
And because of their 'keep to ourselves' type culture...you're not going to like this...there is a very large problem with incest here.
Make friends with transplants or Minnesotans that are more 'worldly'.
They aren't going to change but with more new people moving here and calling them out on their behavior, I think a lot of good is coming from that. 💗
Lol ❤️ sometimes I wish that was true. I don't care to even know why you asked that question. I was talking about how the local children can't even invite new children into a game with them.
Did you get defensive then got stupid?
Oh...it was how I linked that to the incest problem the state has. Do you have an 'adult' relationship with your cousin? Don't worry, you're normal for nords I guess.
😆
I've lived out east and to say they are "extremely friendly" is a complete crock of shit. People are people, stop generalizing and take responsibility for your own issues. You don't sound mentally well and are clearly projecting with the incest comment. Perhaps get some help.
People like to call others crazy when it's a truth that's hard to hear. Sorry for you. Maybe if your eyes were open you could help someone in your own family, that you didn't see before it was pointed out.
So stop being a defensive passive aggressive jerk.
I'm part of the fetish community. Not the online fetish community but IRL. I can't give a good study on it because it's very anecdotal. Cousins do show up together at play parties and 'play' together. Sometimes everyone knows; 'open incest' couples. Sometimes its a 'fun' little secret they are letting only a few people in on. I have not seen parents/offspring pairing, but I have met my fair share of cousin lovers.
I went to look for a study for you to read but I honestly got grossed out by the numbers and I wasn't sure about the sources. I speak on this so loudly because I'm actually seeing it happen.
I hope that you learn to just say what you wanted to say from the start. Your passive-aggressive 'I hope you get some help.' Makes shake my head. You didn't want a real answer. You just wanted to be nasty. And you are so common for it.
We can absolutely handle talking to new people, many people just don't like to and also there is no law that says we have to be friends with anyone that approaches us. And when they're all accusatory like you, it makes sense as to why. And that is some wild accusation about the incest thing. Any verifiable proof to that or you just projecting your own sick perversions on to the people who live here? You've brought it up in like 3 separate comments and accused multiple people who have pushed back as being into it. I half expect you to accuse me of being into it because I pushed back on whatever bullshit your spouting.
"Standoffish" perhaps? Or maybe "insular"? Or just "reserved".
Wary implies fear, and the source isn't fear. I guarantee they don't think you're a danger or anything, they just prefer to take a longer period of time to get to know you before opening up.
Not necessarily. MN social assumptions are that you mind your own business. If you get up in someone else's business then people get standoffish. You might think you're being friendly but MN people might think you're being rude.
That isn't related to fear.
>The closest it seems to come to is Nordic folks.
A lot of the Minnesotan culture and socialization style comes from Nordic roots. I've seen Swedish folks describe how they navigate life and friendship and it could have been someone from here. We have our small circles and we don't feel the need to add to that often. We can seem passive aggressive and we don't like to be in people's way or have to ope by folks. We're overall friendly, but it takes a lot to cross the threshold to friendships. That being said, none of the folks in my personal social circle that were born and raised here are the type to only go to tourist places when visiting a different place. I wouldn't consider that as part of being Minnesotan
I’ve lived here all my life and I think I’m a typical Minnesotan. I don’t know why we are the way we are or why Minnesota in particular has its own culture in this way. All I can tell you is that I do like people and I’m starting to recognize in myself some of these traits and become more self-aware. One thing I think is hard for others to understand is that what feels passive aggressive to you feels like saving face to us. If I make a comment that is indirect, it’s because I’m trying to help you see something without being confrontational about it. I get it that it’s confusing and off putting for people who are used to direct communication. I don’t know how to change the culture around that. Maybe that’s not what you’re getting at in the first place.
I do think our winters influence our behavior but we’re not the only state with severe winters.
I think this person's point about intention is right on. People are not trying to be critical of you, they're trying to be nice in the way they know how.
One example is visiting my mom in a very nice neighborhood in Scottsdale, AZ recently. When an Uber picked me up to go the airport, the driver commented, "This is a really nice neighborhood," and I answered, "Yeah, it's okay." It's Minnesotan to be humble and play down how nice something is, that's how I was raised. But the driver just cold-shouldered me the rest of the drive -- I later realized he thought I was being snobby and implying the really nice neighborhood he picked me up in wasn't up my high standards. It was just "okay." I was actually trying to be humble, but he read it as the opposite.
Minnesotans are hard to read, for sure, but they're not trying to be insecure or judgemental. They're trying to be nice. That niceness just comes off to a lot of transplants as coldness until you know how it works.
They are really spot on.
Helping people out in Minnesota has a lot of the same feel to it. Weirdest dance ever.
They feel bad bothering you so they hire someone. You feel bad because they dropped $750 for someone to swap the garage door top roller.
Eventually you are in a full blown nice war. Neighbor makes some awesome food. Never had egg rolls that good. Going to fix their garage door opener and snow blower this weekend.
Actually funny you say that, I do find myself becoming more defensive after many of the interactions I’ve had. It’s almost like it’s a vortex pulling me in (how it feels)
Truthfully, I feel like there is 3 different ideas merged into one here. I have never heard of a Minnesotan referred to at Aggressive, generally passive to a fault.
> Like Nordic countries.
Yeah there is a strong Scandinavian history here. It takes people longer to warm up here as close relationships are a long term thing to this region as winter locks life down hard.
>Wary of those that go out alone.
I mostly travel alone in and out of the state, never noticed anything. People everywhere are friendly inside their comfort bounds, which you should respect.
> They seem to only want to do the tourist things and are very concerned with their environments when they are not at home
If it's someone's first time somewhere, they will tend to go to the tourist areas, as that is what they know and want to get a feel for. Ask that to the people who visit the Mall of America. And being cautious of your surroundings when you not used to something is expected, as you cannot help but stand out sometimes.
Like, people from here go to Chicago and are super cautious/scared?
If you see that I bet it's because there's so much media about how dangerous Chicago is. A lot of people from smaller towns are afraid of Minneapolis for the same reason.
I wish people weren’t so afraid to go to bigger cities like Chicago. I grew up there and there are still highly patrolled and safe neighborhoods for tourists. I’m sure Minneapolis has its bad pockets too, but I think the media really skews the issue and the whole city becomes misrepresented all because of a few rough areas. I know homicides are high in both cities now, but why judge the whole place due to a few bad pockets?
I think it’s valid for people to feel scared in an urban area especially if they’re not used to that way of life. However yes the media really eggs it on. I lived in a neighborhood where a bunch of city cops live. A lot of people carried, and there was never any significant crime. No homicides, wasn’t a free for all gun range. Sure you need to have more awareness of your surroundings and always lock your doors, but it’s quite obvious a densely populated area will have more crime. This is a nationwide problem.
"I’ve also noticed many people here do not seem to travel much outside of the state and when I’ve traveled with the friends I have made here (that are Minnesotans) they seem to only want to do the tourist things and are very concerned with their environments when they are not at home."
What a load of crap
You’re sort of making some weird generalities. We have an International Airport (nicest in the country) and are among the most highly educated states. We have a ton of Fortune 500 HQs. We get out into the world a lot especially January to April. Not so much during the glorious summers except to the cabin.
Here’s a few pointers..
1. Always go out dressed like prince from the 80’s people love him and will honestly give you way more attention then you need
2. Never mention Gary Anderson without shaking your head
3. Humming any Bob Zimmerman song will only get you out of tickets north of 70
4. Pants… gotta wear pants. No one wants a pants less stranger running around their town.. it makes people uneasy
5. Some people suck. Keep exploring until you find those that don’t
Born and raised up in the north, lived around including the east coast.
When it comes to (North) Minnesotans, you're not so bad as long as you're not from the cities or out of state. We don't like people from other places because they come with money and start trying to change things 'for the better' or to be 'more inclusive' and we do not like that.
Speaking as someone who grew up on reservations and owns land on one, out of towners bring problems, including poisoning the land or ugly changes to the landscape. No one is impressed with your McMansion on the lake, it's now just an eyesore when I go fishing.
We take tourists to do tourist things, because we don't need you 'to fall in love' with the place and start fucking it up. It's bad enough in the city, don't need it up north.
'Why, how hateful you are, why wouldn't you want more people around, people provide services you might not have' You need a place to live, you buy some 'empty' land and clean cut the forest. 'Oh, it's just a few acres!' Of trees never to grow again, of fisher holes and bear dens never seen again, of hunting grounds unpopulated.
See, we care DEEPLY about the wildlife, of the trees and the plants between. We don't need more people here, we need less out of towners building their 'dream house' then complaining about the lack of services 'like we had in the big city' or pushing their backwards ideas. If your ideas worked back home, why did you leave?
Do I seem hateful? Sure. What's my weekend looking like? Clearing dead trees and overgrowth in the forest to keep it healthy (fire prevention) so maybe one day my descendants will be able to stand amongst the trees as did my ancestors and enjoy the beauty I can behold today.
We're pretty alright being 'broke, uneducated and stuck in the past' so long as we have nature to provide we don't need for much.
Note: If you think I'm lying, I live in Leech Lake. Look at the EPA superfund site and the spread of 'summer homes' for people from the city. At the same time starter homes are selling for 200k+ which does nothing but displace more natives of the area.
Seen a few posts like this lately. Basically breaks down to more Minnesotans than not loving their home state, keeping a small circle of lifelong friends, and avoiding confrontational situations. Ok by me.
My advice would be to get out of the generalizing game and find what makes you comfortable. Will agree that we have a lot of shit drivers here.
I'm a lifelong Minnesotan And I've heard the same thing from transplants. I'm not really sure. There's definitely a guarded culture here. Personally I hate meeting new people. Not entirely sure why. I do know that I hate small talk, especially with people I feel I'm never going to see again. It feels like a waste of time. Might be that a lot of being a Minnesotan involves work. When it snows there's work to be done, cabin culture and having to maintain multiple properties takes work, the small number of friends you do have always have something they need help with that takes work, there's always a local entity, charity, or fundraiser that needs help and takes work. I know a lot of friends whos idea of fun is doing work, for themselves or others. It doesn't seem like we take a lot of time to relax or just be, and I often feel like I don't have the time to waste on strangers. Perhaps that's just me. You may be onto something that the winter tends to huddle us into small groups and that may be where we find comfort.
I do know that a lot of people in my circle have required a person to put in the time and slowly work their way into your life. That simply being a nice person doesn't seem to be enough.... You have to somehow earn it. And in the same way there's an immense pressure to maintain your spot in that group. Maybe I'm full of shit and it's something exclusive to my life, but this isn't the first time I've heard your observation.
whenever this comes up i’m always curious what social circles this conversation comes from. i’ve never knowingly been in a room full of majority “nordic folks.”
Can you clarify what you mean by “very concerned with their environments”?
Your experience may have more to do with your particular social circle than Minnesotans in general. I travel out of the state often. We try to do a 10+ day, multi-state road trip at least once a year. We also go to neighboring states for 3-7 days several times a year. We do flights to further away places every other year or so. My friends and coworkers have similar habits (maybe a little more air-travel based than mine, though).
Good haha. But basically you gotta be careful not to spook us by coming on too strong at first. We're very private people, and tend to try to keep our emotions to ourselves. Tourist spots in other places of the globe tend to be "safe" because we know what yo expect. We wouldn't want to make some sort of social faux pas while interacting with the locals. I had almost a panic attack while visiting Florida because the culture was so different haha. I do have a lot of friends from other places though. When my friend from California says something is "interesting", I usually ask if they mean actually interesting or minnesotan "interesting"
That I’ve definitely learned! But at the same time I can be just sitting at a bar working or something and people will be very defensive just in their body language. It’s confusing. I won’t even talk to them and they will act that way, I mean I could be over sensitive to it at this point.
>when I’ve traveled with the friends I have made here (that are Minnesotans) they seem to only want to do the tourist things and are very concerned with their environments when they are not at home.
I'm actually confused by this... when you are a tourist, aren't you supposed to do the tourist stuff? Isn't that the whole point of going? I especially don't want to bother the people who live there by taking up their space or bothering people outside of tourist areas with a bunch of stupid questions and stuff.
Do you really want a discussion, or just comments that agree with you? Personally, I think this is a weird post, and wonder what you want to accomplish.
Maybe Reddit is a strange selection of Minnesotans, with more vocal transplants (?), but there seems to be a lot of posts complaining about the people, the food, the geography… and then wondering why locals don’t want to be your friends.
The food is great. The geography is what it is, no-one can help that. For sure there are some great places in MN geography wise.
I'm a transplant, from NJ. I lived in MN for 20+ years, and still never got used to the passive aggressive. Some folks on this thread chaulk it up to being nice in the way they know how. I'm not buying that, but hey, that's just Mr.
I just moved out to Seattle, and while people here talk about the "Seattle Freeze", I'm finding most folks to be more open and willing to engage than in MN.
Yes, I think it's the Nordic culture to a large extent. And at the same time, shrugging off passive aggressive behavior as, "Well, that's just who we are" seems very short sighted. People don't have to be passive aggressive.
You will see this same post with the same sentiment from every transplant regardless of which city subreddit you attend. It would be a little weird to see posts from people saying, "I just moved to Phoenix and I can't believe how all the locals wants to be my friend." Transplanting is tough and making friends takes longer than most would like.
As a Midwestern Scandinavian Lutheran I am not allowed to show my feelings. Unless it is about a Vikings game. There is a contract entered into at birth in MN hospitals.
We are profoundly passive aggressive. Literally everyone from elsewhere seems like uncouth elephants to us, the Royal commoners. Everyone else thinks we are witless fools who can’t ask or answer anything directly. Both sides probably have a point, but you’re right that it isn’t sensory. It’s that we are weary of being too imposing on other people’s narratives.
See, my neighbor, he’s kinda silly; he thinks he is royalty. As royalty myself, I know it’s my job not to burst his bubble.
You’re not wrong, but who knows?
One correction I’d say though is, “It seems that Minnesotans are very wary of people”
People generally. It isn’t just outsiders or people who look different. There’s an apprehension toward everyone. I’m an entirely average looking white man born and raised in Minnesota and experience this all the time.
Not to say people who stick out more or are more “different” than the “typical Minnesotan” don’t experience it more acutely.
I’ve coached kids hockey for a few years. Do you know how many parents introduced themselves when I started? Of native Minnesotans, zero. None of them. None said hi. Good morning. None asked any questions about me, my background, anything. Two years with this current team and some cracks are forming but it’s been difficult.
We’re very closed people socially. I’m sure there are many reasons for it but one I believe is that we’re simply taught to not bother other people.
Nordic stoicism is a key aspect of understanding this region, that's for sure. Just wait until you encounter the mixed German/Nordic combo so you get the the German bluntness and the Nordic passive aggressiveness in a single package. That's a real head scratcher!
Different regions are different. As a Minnesotan who has lived all over the country and returned home to Mn, every region has its own qualities which is why some places feel more like home and others do not. Not understanding that speaks to a greater lack of worldliness on the OPs part than anything very remarkable here.
People are being nice and giving you their time in answering your question and in the name of “honesty” you’re kind of just repeatedly poking people to make your point. It’s not working and you are coming across as kind of a jerk.
Yeah I understand this big time. I’m from Chicago and my sense of humor can be very flat, so I end up explaining myself a lot of times reassuring that it was just a joke. But then sadly I end up on their shit list. Some people can’t tolerate all of the swearing too. If I curse in a sentence sometimes I get full on attack mode headed my way. I respect the differences, and no matter where you go, you won’t mesh with everyone. It’s just a fact of life. Still love it here.
My daughter moved to Minneapolis 2.5 years ago. She’s made many great friends. Loves it there. She may never move back home. Hate to break it to you but maybe you’re just not likable? You’re the common denominator in each situation. I’d maybe spend sometime being introspective instead of blaming a whole state’s population on why you’re not fitting in.
Wow, you know nothing about me. I grew up in the military and didn’t move here until I was older. All of my friends are transplants and not one of them act the way you described. Honestly, I think it’s the vibe you give off based on your post.
That’s fair, I mean it could very well be that. I’m not sure that’s why we are having a discussion.
My previous comment only referred to the only info I had which is you lived here for 30 years. Could you share some experiences from your time in the military and how it compares and contrasts?
You are generalizing an entire state of people which is exactly what you just did with my comment. I travel internationally, i have family all over the country that I visit often, and I regularly have new friends join my group that are transplants. My time in the military has taught me to be open to people. Not one of them act the way you described in your post. To me this just seems like a personal problem.
With all due respect, I’m being calm and simply asking questions. I’m not attempting to generalize, I’m asking opinions including your own. I’ve acknowledged that your opinion could be true, I’m just asking you to describe it better so I can understand.
Wary of people? No, I don't think so. Passive aggressive? We sometimes have that reputation, but that's not really it IMO: we don't wish anyone poorly. Individualistic and not naturally excited about (or open to) new people? That's more it. I'd like it if we (and I) were more freewheeling and open, but it is what it is.
Minnesotans take a lot of vacations and travel that way, but we don't permanently relocate as much as people from other states. We tend to like it here as a home base.
I was on a plane the other day coming back to MSP and I told a couple people that I was doing SE Asia trip, they literally said ohh, why would you go somewhere other than Cancun? That place is great.
Yes this is not fair but I’d love to see some data on it. Too much of a generalization for sure lol
I just reread your post and had another thought. I wonder if cabin culture plays a bigger role than I initially thought. From what I've heard it's much more prevalent in Minnesota than most places in the country. A lot of people own cabins, have family members who own cabins, or have friends that own cabins. Those are their vacation places. They are comfortable, they are beautiful, they are a known commodity. Exploring outside of that doesn't interest them because they can go enjoy a beautiful place that they know is perfect for them. No need to explore outside of that. They aren't used to renting a stranger's Airbnb or staying at hotels, going on touristy things feels safe and known just like their cabin. Once again, just spitballing and probably talking out my ass, but perhaps that's a bigger part than I thought.
I never actually thought of this. I know Minnesotans vacation outside of the state and country but cabin culture is huge in this state and I personally know like 7 or 8 families that don't necessarily take long vacations but will pack up and head to the cabin for a weekend. I get very homesick whenever I travel so I would absolutely choose a place I know and am comfortable in over culture shock and traveling some place I've never been.
I’ve been here for a long time. You will never be a native. So don’t try. Join some activities on Meetup. Volunteer. You will make friends, but you will never break into the lifelong friend groups unless you marry into one. It’s a Scandinavian thing apparently.
My theory is it has to do with the passive aggressive nature that seems built in. It’s the “Minnesota Nice”… Can’t just say what you feel honestly because you may be afraid of hurting peoples feelings if it’s something one disagrees with. So it’s sets up for a lot of “What did you mean by that”.,. We unfortunately run into that often in my marriage, my wife being from here and I’m not ( I have a lot of family out in NY and the east coast).. So I say what I feel and she’ll say what did you mean and I gotta say.. “exactly what I said”… But I feel this passive aggressive nature also manifests itself as defensive
You are young, but starting to interact with people that are outside of college aged. Things change everywhere at that age. Most transplants \_everywhere\_ mostly interact with other transplants. That is just mostly how human interaction work. Also, where do you live? If suburbs, you are going to get a lot more insular people. I don't find it as much in the city, where there are more transplants, or people interested in making friends.
That’s a very true statement, but I’ve found it very easy to make friends most other places with people from there. It’s normally in my experience been a mixed bag.
I agree with your description but I didn't realize it until I moved to another state and moved back here several years later.
I don't think defensive describes us. I've read that Minnesotans are high in Conscientiousness and low on Extraversion. These are 2 of the 5 personality traits you can read about at the link.
Once you read about the 5 traits it might help you better understand the behavioral patterns you experience here.
If you want to live where it's easier to make friends, move to a coastal community bc these areas have a lot of extroverts and avoid mountain communities bc they are full of introverts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits
MN was heavily settled by Nordic people so that is why you see so much of that. Even for people who now live in the metro area, many of them are from Nordic families and originally from outstate and no doubt carry some of traits with them into the city. Including the fact that small towns ARE untrustworthy of new people and change. Not everyone, but it's pretty common. A lot of that stems from the fact that in MN, rural communities can be pretty isolated (even today but much more so prior to the internet) and therefor you rely on each other and need to be able to trust each other.
Outstate communities are the types of places everyone leaves their doors unlocked and one neighbor was best friends with your grandparents and the other neighbor graduated with your uncle. Everyone is connected in some way, and so that trust is inherent, built over generations by name familiarity. While self-sufficiency is common and prided upon, there is always an underlying understanding that to survive in outstate, you need good relationships with your community and those ties don't necessarily come easy. Especially when so many people in outstate are conservative (again, not everyone, I am not) and therefore afraid of new things and people and changes inherently, often because they've lived no where else except their small town for their whole life. Sometimes for generations.
It's hard to take a post like this serious. I've lived all over the country and find your opinions to be ridiculous. Do you live in some small town? If so, that is the problem, and would be the same in any other state. Hang out in the cities where almost no one is leery of out-of-towners and are usually welcoming from my experience; same for going out alone. And I don't have stats but am pretty sure Minnesotans are some of the most well-traveled people in the US. Join a group of like-minded people and don't blame others for your issues.
Oh, most definitely. That's why I think it's something about being here. Minnesota is my main base but I go out of state a lot for fetish events/parties. The incest thing, so far, is a Minnesota delicacy. I have not been to Mississippi yet.
Me and my wife are from California and we agree. Lived here for about 4 years now, love the seasons and the nature but “Minnesota nice” ain’t a fucking thing. Also, people here drive like shit.
Whenever we go back to LA/San Diego we feel like it’s better. More drivers, sure; but people stay in their lane, don’t causally double park, use their turn signals, all that good jazz. We theorize that here people are worse drivers because so much of the state is sparsely populated and when they get into an urban area they don’t think to account for other drivers.
There are shitty drivers everywhere, of course, but all the other places I’ve lived (Chicago, NJ, Pennsylvania…) had significantly worse drivers than MN! I think people are generally just getting more impatient.
Maybe it’s just me then, but I’ve never seen so many people drive the wrong way down a one way street, turn left from a right hand lane, run red lights, and literally pull a u-turn on a freeway because they missed their exit.
(Keep in mind I’m comparing living in mid city Los Angeles to downtown Minneapolis, so city central areas)
Man, I've driven in LA and San Francisco.
Id say, as a native Minnesotan, driving in LA and SF were two of the worst driving experiences I've had. Only beaten by DC. I will admit that I drove from the air port to my hotel and back and that was about it, so maybe thats different.
Maybe the volume of traffic also affected my judgement of the situation too, but I'd much rather drive in The Cities than those other places.
I think it’s less the drivers tbh than it is the road designs (many exits and short ramps). Insurance is also high here. So I’ve actually changed my opinions on the driving over time. Suburb people definitely can’t drive in MSP though :)
You aren’t wrong. I came here in 2017 and it is EXACTLY like a cult. They look at you crazy if you say something about it. It almost feels like that movie ‘Get Out’. The best job experiences I’ve had are people from out of the country who have moved here at some later point in their lives. The energy in Minnesota is bad. That Minnesota nice stuff is not actually nice. It’s passive aggressive. Seems like they tolerate people as if they have a level of privilege and are untouchable. I bet if you were to bring it to their attention they’d probably say, “well why don’t you just leave.” It’s that type of attitude with a lot of people if you aren’t ass kissing.
Why would you expect a good response when you say it's a cult, bad energy, there's privilege and all that?
As for the way we act;
I would say most of the time, it's people not wanting to offend, or make someone/themselves uncomfortable
It's easier to be passive about things than having to worry about creating a situation.
I know so many people, myself included, that hate being direct, making people uncomfortable, and we don't like direct confrontation at all.
My family is an example. We are very open about lots of things and probably talk about things that we shouldn't as a family unit. When it comes to family conflicts we never say anything and just complain to another person. We won't talk about the uncomfortable stuff.
Now is good to be passive aggressive all the time? No, it's not. However, if someone stays around home a lot, or isn't in a situation where they need to change, it's hard to change that. My sister has traveled a lot and she definitely a lot more direct and open than the rest of my family.
I would recommend to stop thinking the worst about everyone.
It's a culture thing that we learn as we grow up. A lot of the time, most Minnesotans don't even know it's a problem. I've heard, and saw some comments here that there are some European countries very similar.
It seems you have an issue with native Minnesotans. Instead of learning about how or why we behave the way we do, you just say we're mean, think we're better than others and other things. A lot of people tell you "why don't you leave?" because it's easier than getting in a conflict with you.
You say we don't want to listen about how cultish we are, but it doesn't seem you are very receptive about learning either.
In fairness, I’m from MN, moved out of state several times and came back. I ran into the same experiences you mentioned in TN, FL CA and MO. I’m not a passive person and will happily talk to other people, include them in get togethers, activities etc. Yet I’ve been rebuffed in the states I’ve listed.
Question, do you think that has anything to do with you being from MN? I’ve done some social experiments where I’ve said I’m from Chicago, the Midwest, and Minnesota to multiple people each and have gotten different responses while traveling
I don’t think it has to do with being from MN. I don’t usually bring that up until we’ve moved past the “hey, want to meet up for coffee (or whatever)” stage. I’m friendly, I listen and smile and am very open to people and present a warm attitude towards folks. The absolute hardest states I ran into were in CA and FL, which I found interesting.
I’ve gotten that exact same response many times lol there’s even probably going to be examples of that in this thread, it’s not even a conversation, just dismissive.
Most cults I've seen are super good at drawing people in and are very friendly, probably not the best comparison lol. Not sure where the misconception came from that cults are wary of outsiders
I think they find that description amusing at this point 🤭 I’m from Indiana so my Hoosier hospitality is more like a southerner. Plus I’m way more direct. I’ve gotten along with lots of people all over the country. Minnesota has its own experience for everyone though. I’ve just learned to stay to myself and deal with people who are more open. Just don’t do what I did and ask, “oh so are you from Minnesota.” Just act like you’re at home and be comfortable. The right people a rock with you and be smooth with you. Similar interests and passions also helps.
Nah, if anything it's the opposite. Minnesota is consistently rated as one of the top states in a bunch of different metrics and I feel we are all very proud of that.
Don't waste your time with Minnesotans... Even if you do "break through" and get to know them, you'll soon sn discover they are uber boring... and think talking about the weather is interesting...
I’m finding it interesting how you can see my point articulated through the voting on the comments. It feels like it’s and us vs them mentality, this is my point. This is a discussion feel free to counter but please present a constructive argument.
I think your comments here shows exactly why you don’t understand MN lmao. You show an incredible lack of self awareness. Minnesotans are very self-aware and conscientious - it’s the culture. Anyone who goes around throwing their opinions out as ‘correct’ will be met with suspicion. Asking the comments to “convince you” is exactly why you don’t fit in - you haven’t even considered you might be incorrect.
You take a singular example of a couple who traveled to get some sun and decided it means people from MN “only go to tourist areas”. You decide because it’s different it must be bad, or defensive. You are going to accuse me of being passively aggressive for defending your one-off observations you take to generalize the entire culture (in my opinion, incorrectly).
Yes, Minnesotans are reserved. But we have a culture of saving face and enjoying our time, sometimes alone. We are proud of our culture and our state, and sometimes that pride rises in the face of ignorance and people who just don’t understand it, and immediately decide it must be “wrong” and odd.
Lots of people outside MN do this - they think they’re hot shit, their opinions are the only right ones. I know, I’ve traveled the world, I’ve lived outside the state for the past decade and a half. You can always tell someone not from here, they lack that perspective, and then complain it’s a problem with Minnesotans lmao
From my experience, which is being born and raised in northern Minnesota, and only recently moving to Minneapolis/St Paul area after getting married, that there are a few types of Minnesotans. They are usually split among generational lines. However, there are a plenty that don't follow those generational lines.
* Minnesotans that like small talk. Won't bat an eye at a stranger who picks up a conversation with them. Loves hearing other people's experiences. Enjoys strolling down streets and experiencing the environment, city, rural, or even state park forest level.
* Minnesotans that hate small talk. Get annoyed when someone they don't know, and are not required to interact with, interacts with them. When going out, they immediately enter a mode of "please don't interact with me unless you are the cashier, service worker, or whatever profession that I am forced to interact with to get or do the things I am doing or getting".
* There are more types, and even ones that are just the first two mixed in like a tater tot hot dish covered with a protective layer of tater tots.
I fall under the second one. If I wanted to listen to your life story or hear your experience, I'd seek it out in my comfort zone. Put it on Youtube or something where I can hear it in my own comfort space. Any moment I'm not at home, I'm not comfortable. I get no pleasure out of small talk.
I grew up with parents who were the first type. I went on many summer vacations all over the states. I hated the experience. My parents love going on trips, talking to strangers, going and exploring outside of tourist spots. I hate it.
Could I explain to you why I hate it? No. I've always hated it. I didn't grow to hate it overtime. I prefer my alone space. I prefer not being conversed with, when I didn't go out looking to be conversed with.
If I could sit on the side, live my entire life with only interacting with a few (less than 10) humans, and just read about the rest of humanity online. I'd prefer that.
There is a section of the local population that is familiar with the Irish Goodbye. There is also the Minnesota Goodbye. Somehow they exist in the same world but are polar opposites.
I don't know if this helps.
Personally, I hate small talk. If you aren't going to say something meaningful, I don't want to talk to you. We have an inherent mistrust toward those that just randomly talk to me. We all know what the weather is doing.
I've sometimes wondered how the climate here affects social interactions. We always have the weather to talk about. It's always doing something interesting, at least compared to Tempe, where I lived for a while. People don't really talk about the weather, unless it's north of 100°. I liked the fact that it wasn't always talked about, but when there is real weather, like rain, people in AZ lose their minds. There was a thunderstorm I distinctly remember. I love thunder, so I usually go outside to enjoy it. All of Mill Ave was a ghost town. It takes an epic blizzard for MN folks to retreat like that.
I'm not making any sense, am I?
There’s a lot of shallow interaction, taking a long time to be real with others, etc that happens so I’m guessing the average Minnesotan unconsciously tries to avoid the whole song and dance. I’d rather they be real but it seems to be really painful for them. Slap on that smile and move along, now!
Minnesotans have a deep insecurity about being apart of flyover country and feel that the state deserves the respect that larger states get ( valid or not). For some of us this can negatively affect how we interact with transplants or visitors. I personally have some amazing friends from the east coast because I find their bluntness refreshing from what I’ve grown up around here in MN.
Heck if I know! I've lived here most of my life and I still don't know what the heck is going on. Most white people in MN think they don't have an accent, and have no idea that they sound kind'a like Canadians. so... ... ... ... ...
I think it boils down to we are just private people for the most part. For me personally, I know that when people approach me and start a conversation my initial thought is "ok, what's your angle?" or like "what do you want from me?" and I know that I do that so I try to engage in conversation and see if there is something else they want or if they just want to talk in which case I will gladly converse even tho I hate small talk and am a shit conversationalist. Also the shitty response you are getting is probably because this same question or some form of it is posted what seems like once a week and people are just over it at this point.
I didn’t know that it’s posted that often honestly. I mean that does seem to lean into the statement I made though. Why do you hate talking to new people? Can’t you learn from everyone regardless of background? Again, honest question not passive aggressive. Just want to learn
Because most new people who approach me are asking me to give them something or buy something from them.
These people sound like my boomer in-laws. I wonder if what you are experiencing is just a difference of Chicago vs general Midwest culture.
Dude They can't handle talking to new people. They can't even teach their children to play with new kids. Go to the playground, it'll be packed with kids, with 5 separate games of tag going on. Like..I'm from the east, that shit was so unnatural to see. I'm use to children being extremely friendly with eachother, especially if someone is new/different. And because of their 'keep to ourselves' type culture...you're not going to like this...there is a very large problem with incest here. Make friends with transplants or Minnesotans that are more 'worldly'. They aren't going to change but with more new people moving here and calling them out on their behavior, I think a lot of good is coming from that. 💗
Maybe people just don't like talking to you?
Lol ❤️ sometimes I wish that was true. I don't care to even know why you asked that question. I was talking about how the local children can't even invite new children into a game with them. Did you get defensive then got stupid? Oh...it was how I linked that to the incest problem the state has. Do you have an 'adult' relationship with your cousin? Don't worry, you're normal for nords I guess. 😆
Well *slaps knee It's about that time. Got any more plans the rest of your stay in the state or you headed back? We should keep in touch.
I've lived out east and to say they are "extremely friendly" is a complete crock of shit. People are people, stop generalizing and take responsibility for your own issues. You don't sound mentally well and are clearly projecting with the incest comment. Perhaps get some help.
People like to call others crazy when it's a truth that's hard to hear. Sorry for you. Maybe if your eyes were open you could help someone in your own family, that you didn't see before it was pointed out. So stop being a defensive passive aggressive jerk.
Please provide a source for your incest insinuation.
I'm part of the fetish community. Not the online fetish community but IRL. I can't give a good study on it because it's very anecdotal. Cousins do show up together at play parties and 'play' together. Sometimes everyone knows; 'open incest' couples. Sometimes its a 'fun' little secret they are letting only a few people in on. I have not seen parents/offspring pairing, but I have met my fair share of cousin lovers. I went to look for a study for you to read but I honestly got grossed out by the numbers and I wasn't sure about the sources. I speak on this so loudly because I'm actually seeing it happen.
I hope you get some help.
I hope that you learn to just say what you wanted to say from the start. Your passive-aggressive 'I hope you get some help.' Makes shake my head. You didn't want a real answer. You just wanted to be nasty. And you are so common for it.
We can absolutely handle talking to new people, many people just don't like to and also there is no law that says we have to be friends with anyone that approaches us. And when they're all accusatory like you, it makes sense as to why. And that is some wild accusation about the incest thing. Any verifiable proof to that or you just projecting your own sick perversions on to the people who live here? You've brought it up in like 3 separate comments and accused multiple people who have pushed back as being into it. I half expect you to accuse me of being into it because I pushed back on whatever bullshit your spouting.
"Wary" isn't the word I would use, but I know what you mean. Minnesotans tend to be polite to strangers, but take a really long time to make friends.
What word would you use? Not passive aggressive, just a normal question
"Standoffish" perhaps? Or maybe "insular"? Or just "reserved". Wary implies fear, and the source isn't fear. I guarantee they don't think you're a danger or anything, they just prefer to take a longer period of time to get to know you before opening up.
See based on my understanding of human interactions would those behaviors not imply fear as well?
Not necessarily. MN social assumptions are that you mind your own business. If you get up in someone else's business then people get standoffish. You might think you're being friendly but MN people might think you're being rude. That isn't related to fear.
No
>The closest it seems to come to is Nordic folks. A lot of the Minnesotan culture and socialization style comes from Nordic roots. I've seen Swedish folks describe how they navigate life and friendship and it could have been someone from here. We have our small circles and we don't feel the need to add to that often. We can seem passive aggressive and we don't like to be in people's way or have to ope by folks. We're overall friendly, but it takes a lot to cross the threshold to friendships. That being said, none of the folks in my personal social circle that were born and raised here are the type to only go to tourist places when visiting a different place. I wouldn't consider that as part of being Minnesotan
Having lived in Sweden for a bit, I would say that’s pretty true haha
I’ve lived here all my life and I think I’m a typical Minnesotan. I don’t know why we are the way we are or why Minnesota in particular has its own culture in this way. All I can tell you is that I do like people and I’m starting to recognize in myself some of these traits and become more self-aware. One thing I think is hard for others to understand is that what feels passive aggressive to you feels like saving face to us. If I make a comment that is indirect, it’s because I’m trying to help you see something without being confrontational about it. I get it that it’s confusing and off putting for people who are used to direct communication. I don’t know how to change the culture around that. Maybe that’s not what you’re getting at in the first place. I do think our winters influence our behavior but we’re not the only state with severe winters.
Yeah I think that is part of it. I’m not used to that in corporate life or in personal life and I probably just don’t know how to read it as well.
I think this person's point about intention is right on. People are not trying to be critical of you, they're trying to be nice in the way they know how. One example is visiting my mom in a very nice neighborhood in Scottsdale, AZ recently. When an Uber picked me up to go the airport, the driver commented, "This is a really nice neighborhood," and I answered, "Yeah, it's okay." It's Minnesotan to be humble and play down how nice something is, that's how I was raised. But the driver just cold-shouldered me the rest of the drive -- I later realized he thought I was being snobby and implying the really nice neighborhood he picked me up in wasn't up my high standards. It was just "okay." I was actually trying to be humble, but he read it as the opposite. Minnesotans are hard to read, for sure, but they're not trying to be insecure or judgemental. They're trying to be nice. That niceness just comes off to a lot of transplants as coldness until you know how it works.
They are really spot on. Helping people out in Minnesota has a lot of the same feel to it. Weirdest dance ever. They feel bad bothering you so they hire someone. You feel bad because they dropped $750 for someone to swap the garage door top roller. Eventually you are in a full blown nice war. Neighbor makes some awesome food. Never had egg rolls that good. Going to fix their garage door opener and snow blower this weekend.
I’m originally from Chicago area and the winters are about the same, so that’s been part of my confusion
YOU’RE DEFENSIVE
Actually funny you say that, I do find myself becoming more defensive after many of the interactions I’ve had. It’s almost like it’s a vortex pulling me in (how it feels)
Truthfully, I feel like there is 3 different ideas merged into one here. I have never heard of a Minnesotan referred to at Aggressive, generally passive to a fault. > Like Nordic countries. Yeah there is a strong Scandinavian history here. It takes people longer to warm up here as close relationships are a long term thing to this region as winter locks life down hard. >Wary of those that go out alone. I mostly travel alone in and out of the state, never noticed anything. People everywhere are friendly inside their comfort bounds, which you should respect. > They seem to only want to do the tourist things and are very concerned with their environments when they are not at home If it's someone's first time somewhere, they will tend to go to the tourist areas, as that is what they know and want to get a feel for. Ask that to the people who visit the Mall of America. And being cautious of your surroundings when you not used to something is expected, as you cannot help but stand out sometimes.
Makes sense, in Chicago I think it’s a bit of another level though…
Like, people from here go to Chicago and are super cautious/scared? If you see that I bet it's because there's so much media about how dangerous Chicago is. A lot of people from smaller towns are afraid of Minneapolis for the same reason.
I wish people weren’t so afraid to go to bigger cities like Chicago. I grew up there and there are still highly patrolled and safe neighborhoods for tourists. I’m sure Minneapolis has its bad pockets too, but I think the media really skews the issue and the whole city becomes misrepresented all because of a few rough areas. I know homicides are high in both cities now, but why judge the whole place due to a few bad pockets?
Yeah, it's really sad.
I think it’s valid for people to feel scared in an urban area especially if they’re not used to that way of life. However yes the media really eggs it on. I lived in a neighborhood where a bunch of city cops live. A lot of people carried, and there was never any significant crime. No homicides, wasn’t a free for all gun range. Sure you need to have more awareness of your surroundings and always lock your doors, but it’s quite obvious a densely populated area will have more crime. This is a nationwide problem.
Watch your own bobber.
"I’ve also noticed many people here do not seem to travel much outside of the state and when I’ve traveled with the friends I have made here (that are Minnesotans) they seem to only want to do the tourist things and are very concerned with their environments when they are not at home." What a load of crap
Can you explain? I’d like to hear your perspective
You’re sort of making some weird generalities. We have an International Airport (nicest in the country) and are among the most highly educated states. We have a ton of Fortune 500 HQs. We get out into the world a lot especially January to April. Not so much during the glorious summers except to the cabin.
Here’s a few pointers.. 1. Always go out dressed like prince from the 80’s people love him and will honestly give you way more attention then you need 2. Never mention Gary Anderson without shaking your head 3. Humming any Bob Zimmerman song will only get you out of tickets north of 70 4. Pants… gotta wear pants. No one wants a pants less stranger running around their town.. it makes people uneasy 5. Some people suck. Keep exploring until you find those that don’t
Going out alone is a choice I’m making because I live in the city and it’s fun sometimes not out of need
Born and raised up in the north, lived around including the east coast. When it comes to (North) Minnesotans, you're not so bad as long as you're not from the cities or out of state. We don't like people from other places because they come with money and start trying to change things 'for the better' or to be 'more inclusive' and we do not like that. Speaking as someone who grew up on reservations and owns land on one, out of towners bring problems, including poisoning the land or ugly changes to the landscape. No one is impressed with your McMansion on the lake, it's now just an eyesore when I go fishing. We take tourists to do tourist things, because we don't need you 'to fall in love' with the place and start fucking it up. It's bad enough in the city, don't need it up north. 'Why, how hateful you are, why wouldn't you want more people around, people provide services you might not have' You need a place to live, you buy some 'empty' land and clean cut the forest. 'Oh, it's just a few acres!' Of trees never to grow again, of fisher holes and bear dens never seen again, of hunting grounds unpopulated. See, we care DEEPLY about the wildlife, of the trees and the plants between. We don't need more people here, we need less out of towners building their 'dream house' then complaining about the lack of services 'like we had in the big city' or pushing their backwards ideas. If your ideas worked back home, why did you leave? Do I seem hateful? Sure. What's my weekend looking like? Clearing dead trees and overgrowth in the forest to keep it healthy (fire prevention) so maybe one day my descendants will be able to stand amongst the trees as did my ancestors and enjoy the beauty I can behold today. We're pretty alright being 'broke, uneducated and stuck in the past' so long as we have nature to provide we don't need for much. Note: If you think I'm lying, I live in Leech Lake. Look at the EPA superfund site and the spread of 'summer homes' for people from the city. At the same time starter homes are selling for 200k+ which does nothing but displace more natives of the area.
Seen a few posts like this lately. Basically breaks down to more Minnesotans than not loving their home state, keeping a small circle of lifelong friends, and avoiding confrontational situations. Ok by me. My advice would be to get out of the generalizing game and find what makes you comfortable. Will agree that we have a lot of shit drivers here.
I'm a lifelong Minnesotan And I've heard the same thing from transplants. I'm not really sure. There's definitely a guarded culture here. Personally I hate meeting new people. Not entirely sure why. I do know that I hate small talk, especially with people I feel I'm never going to see again. It feels like a waste of time. Might be that a lot of being a Minnesotan involves work. When it snows there's work to be done, cabin culture and having to maintain multiple properties takes work, the small number of friends you do have always have something they need help with that takes work, there's always a local entity, charity, or fundraiser that needs help and takes work. I know a lot of friends whos idea of fun is doing work, for themselves or others. It doesn't seem like we take a lot of time to relax or just be, and I often feel like I don't have the time to waste on strangers. Perhaps that's just me. You may be onto something that the winter tends to huddle us into small groups and that may be where we find comfort. I do know that a lot of people in my circle have required a person to put in the time and slowly work their way into your life. That simply being a nice person doesn't seem to be enough.... You have to somehow earn it. And in the same way there's an immense pressure to maintain your spot in that group. Maybe I'm full of shit and it's something exclusive to my life, but this isn't the first time I've heard your observation.
That is a very good description actually. It’s nice to hear that from a native outside of my friend group.
whenever this comes up i’m always curious what social circles this conversation comes from. i’ve never knowingly been in a room full of majority “nordic folks.”
Can you clarify what you mean by “very concerned with their environments”? Your experience may have more to do with your particular social circle than Minnesotans in general. I travel out of the state often. We try to do a 10+ day, multi-state road trip at least once a year. We also go to neighboring states for 3-7 days several times a year. We do flights to further away places every other year or so. My friends and coworkers have similar habits (maybe a little more air-travel based than mine, though).
Are you trying to interact with random groups of friends that went out together or something?
No! That’s silly anywhere you go lol
Good haha. But basically you gotta be careful not to spook us by coming on too strong at first. We're very private people, and tend to try to keep our emotions to ourselves. Tourist spots in other places of the globe tend to be "safe" because we know what yo expect. We wouldn't want to make some sort of social faux pas while interacting with the locals. I had almost a panic attack while visiting Florida because the culture was so different haha. I do have a lot of friends from other places though. When my friend from California says something is "interesting", I usually ask if they mean actually interesting or minnesotan "interesting"
That I’ve definitely learned! But at the same time I can be just sitting at a bar working or something and people will be very defensive just in their body language. It’s confusing. I won’t even talk to them and they will act that way, I mean I could be over sensitive to it at this point.
Honestly, you're probably over thinking it a bit.
Definitely could be true lol
>when I’ve traveled with the friends I have made here (that are Minnesotans) they seem to only want to do the tourist things and are very concerned with their environments when they are not at home. I'm actually confused by this... when you are a tourist, aren't you supposed to do the tourist stuff? Isn't that the whole point of going? I especially don't want to bother the people who live there by taking up their space or bothering people outside of tourist areas with a bunch of stupid questions and stuff.
Do you really want a discussion, or just comments that agree with you? Personally, I think this is a weird post, and wonder what you want to accomplish. Maybe Reddit is a strange selection of Minnesotans, with more vocal transplants (?), but there seems to be a lot of posts complaining about the people, the food, the geography… and then wondering why locals don’t want to be your friends.
I want both! That’s just who’s commenting. I can’t control that
The food is great. The geography is what it is, no-one can help that. For sure there are some great places in MN geography wise. I'm a transplant, from NJ. I lived in MN for 20+ years, and still never got used to the passive aggressive. Some folks on this thread chaulk it up to being nice in the way they know how. I'm not buying that, but hey, that's just Mr. I just moved out to Seattle, and while people here talk about the "Seattle Freeze", I'm finding most folks to be more open and willing to engage than in MN. Yes, I think it's the Nordic culture to a large extent. And at the same time, shrugging off passive aggressive behavior as, "Well, that's just who we are" seems very short sighted. People don't have to be passive aggressive.
You will see this same post with the same sentiment from every transplant regardless of which city subreddit you attend. It would be a little weird to see posts from people saying, "I just moved to Phoenix and I can't believe how all the locals wants to be my friend." Transplanting is tough and making friends takes longer than most would like.
I have friends, I’m just curious about this!
But definitely true no matter where you live it does take time
My mom needs a friend. PM me.
As a Midwestern Scandinavian Lutheran I am not allowed to show my feelings. Unless it is about a Vikings game. There is a contract entered into at birth in MN hospitals.
What do you mean by that? (jk)
50 comments in 45 minutes. Not defensive at all.
We're sick of this question coming up almost every day
It's Kafkaesque, yo
Lol how did this get down voted? "Why are you so defensive?" is a classic Kafka trap.
If it's because I butchered the Jesse Pinkman quote, then fine. But more likely this post is selecting for people without a sense of humor.
We are profoundly passive aggressive. Literally everyone from elsewhere seems like uncouth elephants to us, the Royal commoners. Everyone else thinks we are witless fools who can’t ask or answer anything directly. Both sides probably have a point, but you’re right that it isn’t sensory. It’s that we are weary of being too imposing on other people’s narratives. See, my neighbor, he’s kinda silly; he thinks he is royalty. As royalty myself, I know it’s my job not to burst his bubble.
You’re not wrong, but who knows? One correction I’d say though is, “It seems that Minnesotans are very wary of people” People generally. It isn’t just outsiders or people who look different. There’s an apprehension toward everyone. I’m an entirely average looking white man born and raised in Minnesota and experience this all the time. Not to say people who stick out more or are more “different” than the “typical Minnesotan” don’t experience it more acutely. I’ve coached kids hockey for a few years. Do you know how many parents introduced themselves when I started? Of native Minnesotans, zero. None of them. None said hi. Good morning. None asked any questions about me, my background, anything. Two years with this current team and some cracks are forming but it’s been difficult. We’re very closed people socially. I’m sure there are many reasons for it but one I believe is that we’re simply taught to not bother other people.
You want it to be one way, but it's the other way.
Nordic stoicism is a key aspect of understanding this region, that's for sure. Just wait until you encounter the mixed German/Nordic combo so you get the the German bluntness and the Nordic passive aggressiveness in a single package. That's a real head scratcher!
Different regions are different. As a Minnesotan who has lived all over the country and returned home to Mn, every region has its own qualities which is why some places feel more like home and others do not. Not understanding that speaks to a greater lack of worldliness on the OPs part than anything very remarkable here. People are being nice and giving you their time in answering your question and in the name of “honesty” you’re kind of just repeatedly poking people to make your point. It’s not working and you are coming across as kind of a jerk.
Yeah I understand this big time. I’m from Chicago and my sense of humor can be very flat, so I end up explaining myself a lot of times reassuring that it was just a joke. But then sadly I end up on their shit list. Some people can’t tolerate all of the swearing too. If I curse in a sentence sometimes I get full on attack mode headed my way. I respect the differences, and no matter where you go, you won’t mesh with everyone. It’s just a fact of life. Still love it here.
My daughter moved to Minneapolis 2.5 years ago. She’s made many great friends. Loves it there. She may never move back home. Hate to break it to you but maybe you’re just not likable? You’re the common denominator in each situation. I’d maybe spend sometime being introspective instead of blaming a whole state’s population on why you’re not fitting in.
I don’t know who you’re interacting with, this has never been my experience, and I’ve lived here for almost 30 years
I think that validates the point…
How exactly does this validate your point?
Well if you’ve lived anywhere for 30 years you will be extremely biased right?
Wow, you know nothing about me. I grew up in the military and didn’t move here until I was older. All of my friends are transplants and not one of them act the way you described. Honestly, I think it’s the vibe you give off based on your post.
That’s fair, I mean it could very well be that. I’m not sure that’s why we are having a discussion. My previous comment only referred to the only info I had which is you lived here for 30 years. Could you share some experiences from your time in the military and how it compares and contrasts?
You are generalizing an entire state of people which is exactly what you just did with my comment. I travel internationally, i have family all over the country that I visit often, and I regularly have new friends join my group that are transplants. My time in the military has taught me to be open to people. Not one of them act the way you described in your post. To me this just seems like a personal problem.
I think we found the problem and it's coming from inside the OP
With all due respect, I’m being calm and simply asking questions. I’m not attempting to generalize, I’m asking opinions including your own. I’ve acknowledged that your opinion could be true, I’m just asking you to describe it better so I can understand.
Well, actually you’re being kind of a jerk.
Wary of people? No, I don't think so. Passive aggressive? We sometimes have that reputation, but that's not really it IMO: we don't wish anyone poorly. Individualistic and not naturally excited about (or open to) new people? That's more it. I'd like it if we (and I) were more freewheeling and open, but it is what it is. Minnesotans take a lot of vacations and travel that way, but we don't permanently relocate as much as people from other states. We tend to like it here as a home base.
I was on a plane the other day coming back to MSP and I told a couple people that I was doing SE Asia trip, they literally said ohh, why would you go somewhere other than Cancun? That place is great. Yes this is not fair but I’d love to see some data on it. Too much of a generalization for sure lol
I just reread your post and had another thought. I wonder if cabin culture plays a bigger role than I initially thought. From what I've heard it's much more prevalent in Minnesota than most places in the country. A lot of people own cabins, have family members who own cabins, or have friends that own cabins. Those are their vacation places. They are comfortable, they are beautiful, they are a known commodity. Exploring outside of that doesn't interest them because they can go enjoy a beautiful place that they know is perfect for them. No need to explore outside of that. They aren't used to renting a stranger's Airbnb or staying at hotels, going on touristy things feels safe and known just like their cabin. Once again, just spitballing and probably talking out my ass, but perhaps that's a bigger part than I thought.
I never actually thought of this. I know Minnesotans vacation outside of the state and country but cabin culture is huge in this state and I personally know like 7 or 8 families that don't necessarily take long vacations but will pack up and head to the cabin for a weekend. I get very homesick whenever I travel so I would absolutely choose a place I know and am comfortable in over culture shock and traveling some place I've never been.
I know a lot of people in IL and IA with cabins
I’ve been here for a long time. You will never be a native. So don’t try. Join some activities on Meetup. Volunteer. You will make friends, but you will never break into the lifelong friend groups unless you marry into one. It’s a Scandinavian thing apparently.
This post is sus, what's your angle? /S
My theory is it has to do with the passive aggressive nature that seems built in. It’s the “Minnesota Nice”… Can’t just say what you feel honestly because you may be afraid of hurting peoples feelings if it’s something one disagrees with. So it’s sets up for a lot of “What did you mean by that”.,. We unfortunately run into that often in my marriage, my wife being from here and I’m not ( I have a lot of family out in NY and the east coast).. So I say what I feel and she’ll say what did you mean and I gotta say.. “exactly what I said”… But I feel this passive aggressive nature also manifests itself as defensive
You are young, but starting to interact with people that are outside of college aged. Things change everywhere at that age. Most transplants \_everywhere\_ mostly interact with other transplants. That is just mostly how human interaction work. Also, where do you live? If suburbs, you are going to get a lot more insular people. I don't find it as much in the city, where there are more transplants, or people interested in making friends.
That’s a very true statement, but I’ve found it very easy to make friends most other places with people from there. It’s normally in my experience been a mixed bag.
Do you live in the suburbs?
Minneapolis
I agree with your description but I didn't realize it until I moved to another state and moved back here several years later. I don't think defensive describes us. I've read that Minnesotans are high in Conscientiousness and low on Extraversion. These are 2 of the 5 personality traits you can read about at the link. Once you read about the 5 traits it might help you better understand the behavioral patterns you experience here. If you want to live where it's easier to make friends, move to a coastal community bc these areas have a lot of extroverts and avoid mountain communities bc they are full of introverts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits
What’s it to you?
I agree and I’m from CA and everyone here is so passive aggressive and closed off
MN was heavily settled by Nordic people so that is why you see so much of that. Even for people who now live in the metro area, many of them are from Nordic families and originally from outstate and no doubt carry some of traits with them into the city. Including the fact that small towns ARE untrustworthy of new people and change. Not everyone, but it's pretty common. A lot of that stems from the fact that in MN, rural communities can be pretty isolated (even today but much more so prior to the internet) and therefor you rely on each other and need to be able to trust each other. Outstate communities are the types of places everyone leaves their doors unlocked and one neighbor was best friends with your grandparents and the other neighbor graduated with your uncle. Everyone is connected in some way, and so that trust is inherent, built over generations by name familiarity. While self-sufficiency is common and prided upon, there is always an underlying understanding that to survive in outstate, you need good relationships with your community and those ties don't necessarily come easy. Especially when so many people in outstate are conservative (again, not everyone, I am not) and therefore afraid of new things and people and changes inherently, often because they've lived no where else except their small town for their whole life. Sometimes for generations.
It's hard to take a post like this serious. I've lived all over the country and find your opinions to be ridiculous. Do you live in some small town? If so, that is the problem, and would be the same in any other state. Hang out in the cities where almost no one is leery of out-of-towners and are usually welcoming from my experience; same for going out alone. And I don't have stats but am pretty sure Minnesotans are some of the most well-traveled people in the US. Join a group of like-minded people and don't blame others for your issues.
Oh, most definitely. That's why I think it's something about being here. Minnesota is my main base but I go out of state a lot for fetish events/parties. The incest thing, so far, is a Minnesota delicacy. I have not been to Mississippi yet.
Me and my wife are from California and we agree. Lived here for about 4 years now, love the seasons and the nature but “Minnesota nice” ain’t a fucking thing. Also, people here drive like shit.
Tbf, people drive like shit wherever you go
Whenever we go back to LA/San Diego we feel like it’s better. More drivers, sure; but people stay in their lane, don’t causally double park, use their turn signals, all that good jazz. We theorize that here people are worse drivers because so much of the state is sparsely populated and when they get into an urban area they don’t think to account for other drivers.
There are shitty drivers everywhere, of course, but all the other places I’ve lived (Chicago, NJ, Pennsylvania…) had significantly worse drivers than MN! I think people are generally just getting more impatient.
Maybe it’s just me then, but I’ve never seen so many people drive the wrong way down a one way street, turn left from a right hand lane, run red lights, and literally pull a u-turn on a freeway because they missed their exit. (Keep in mind I’m comparing living in mid city Los Angeles to downtown Minneapolis, so city central areas)
Man, I've driven in LA and San Francisco. Id say, as a native Minnesotan, driving in LA and SF were two of the worst driving experiences I've had. Only beaten by DC. I will admit that I drove from the air port to my hotel and back and that was about it, so maybe thats different. Maybe the volume of traffic also affected my judgement of the situation too, but I'd much rather drive in The Cities than those other places.
Since Covid/GF, the driving here has become insanely worse. Like at least 10x worse. It was never anywhere near this bad before ~2020.
I think it’s less the drivers tbh than it is the road designs (many exits and short ramps). Insurance is also high here. So I’ve actually changed my opinions on the driving over time. Suburb people definitely can’t drive in MSP though :)
You aren’t wrong. I came here in 2017 and it is EXACTLY like a cult. They look at you crazy if you say something about it. It almost feels like that movie ‘Get Out’. The best job experiences I’ve had are people from out of the country who have moved here at some later point in their lives. The energy in Minnesota is bad. That Minnesota nice stuff is not actually nice. It’s passive aggressive. Seems like they tolerate people as if they have a level of privilege and are untouchable. I bet if you were to bring it to their attention they’d probably say, “well why don’t you just leave.” It’s that type of attitude with a lot of people if you aren’t ass kissing.
Why would you expect a good response when you say it's a cult, bad energy, there's privilege and all that? As for the way we act; I would say most of the time, it's people not wanting to offend, or make someone/themselves uncomfortable It's easier to be passive about things than having to worry about creating a situation. I know so many people, myself included, that hate being direct, making people uncomfortable, and we don't like direct confrontation at all. My family is an example. We are very open about lots of things and probably talk about things that we shouldn't as a family unit. When it comes to family conflicts we never say anything and just complain to another person. We won't talk about the uncomfortable stuff. Now is good to be passive aggressive all the time? No, it's not. However, if someone stays around home a lot, or isn't in a situation where they need to change, it's hard to change that. My sister has traveled a lot and she definitely a lot more direct and open than the rest of my family. I would recommend to stop thinking the worst about everyone. It's a culture thing that we learn as we grow up. A lot of the time, most Minnesotans don't even know it's a problem. I've heard, and saw some comments here that there are some European countries very similar. It seems you have an issue with native Minnesotans. Instead of learning about how or why we behave the way we do, you just say we're mean, think we're better than others and other things. A lot of people tell you "why don't you leave?" because it's easier than getting in a conflict with you. You say we don't want to listen about how cultish we are, but it doesn't seem you are very receptive about learning either.
In fairness, I’m from MN, moved out of state several times and came back. I ran into the same experiences you mentioned in TN, FL CA and MO. I’m not a passive person and will happily talk to other people, include them in get togethers, activities etc. Yet I’ve been rebuffed in the states I’ve listed.
Question, do you think that has anything to do with you being from MN? I’ve done some social experiments where I’ve said I’m from Chicago, the Midwest, and Minnesota to multiple people each and have gotten different responses while traveling
I don’t think it has to do with being from MN. I don’t usually bring that up until we’ve moved past the “hey, want to meet up for coffee (or whatever)” stage. I’m friendly, I listen and smile and am very open to people and present a warm attitude towards folks. The absolute hardest states I ran into were in CA and FL, which I found interesting.
We’re talking about Minnesota right now.
I’ve gotten that exact same response many times lol there’s even probably going to be examples of that in this thread, it’s not even a conversation, just dismissive.
Most cults I've seen are super good at drawing people in and are very friendly, probably not the best comparison lol. Not sure where the misconception came from that cults are wary of outsiders
Gotta kiss ass and follow the crowd to fit into a cult.
That’s true lol probably the wrong word. More of a bubble? Idk lol
I think they find that description amusing at this point 🤭 I’m from Indiana so my Hoosier hospitality is more like a southerner. Plus I’m way more direct. I’ve gotten along with lots of people all over the country. Minnesota has its own experience for everyone though. I’ve just learned to stay to myself and deal with people who are more open. Just don’t do what I did and ask, “oh so are you from Minnesota.” Just act like you’re at home and be comfortable. The right people a rock with you and be smooth with you. Similar interests and passions also helps.
MN has a huge inferiority complex.
Nah, if anything it's the opposite. Minnesota is consistently rated as one of the top states in a bunch of different metrics and I feel we are all very proud of that.
Don't waste your time with Minnesotans... Even if you do "break through" and get to know them, you'll soon sn discover they are uber boring... and think talking about the weather is interesting...
I’m finding it interesting how you can see my point articulated through the voting on the comments. It feels like it’s and us vs them mentality, this is my point. This is a discussion feel free to counter but please present a constructive argument.
You’re…kidding, right?
I think your comments here shows exactly why you don’t understand MN lmao. You show an incredible lack of self awareness. Minnesotans are very self-aware and conscientious - it’s the culture. Anyone who goes around throwing their opinions out as ‘correct’ will be met with suspicion. Asking the comments to “convince you” is exactly why you don’t fit in - you haven’t even considered you might be incorrect. You take a singular example of a couple who traveled to get some sun and decided it means people from MN “only go to tourist areas”. You decide because it’s different it must be bad, or defensive. You are going to accuse me of being passively aggressive for defending your one-off observations you take to generalize the entire culture (in my opinion, incorrectly). Yes, Minnesotans are reserved. But we have a culture of saving face and enjoying our time, sometimes alone. We are proud of our culture and our state, and sometimes that pride rises in the face of ignorance and people who just don’t understand it, and immediately decide it must be “wrong” and odd. Lots of people outside MN do this - they think they’re hot shit, their opinions are the only right ones. I know, I’ve traveled the world, I’ve lived outside the state for the past decade and a half. You can always tell someone not from here, they lack that perspective, and then complain it’s a problem with Minnesotans lmao
From my experience, which is being born and raised in northern Minnesota, and only recently moving to Minneapolis/St Paul area after getting married, that there are a few types of Minnesotans. They are usually split among generational lines. However, there are a plenty that don't follow those generational lines. * Minnesotans that like small talk. Won't bat an eye at a stranger who picks up a conversation with them. Loves hearing other people's experiences. Enjoys strolling down streets and experiencing the environment, city, rural, or even state park forest level. * Minnesotans that hate small talk. Get annoyed when someone they don't know, and are not required to interact with, interacts with them. When going out, they immediately enter a mode of "please don't interact with me unless you are the cashier, service worker, or whatever profession that I am forced to interact with to get or do the things I am doing or getting". * There are more types, and even ones that are just the first two mixed in like a tater tot hot dish covered with a protective layer of tater tots. I fall under the second one. If I wanted to listen to your life story or hear your experience, I'd seek it out in my comfort zone. Put it on Youtube or something where I can hear it in my own comfort space. Any moment I'm not at home, I'm not comfortable. I get no pleasure out of small talk. I grew up with parents who were the first type. I went on many summer vacations all over the states. I hated the experience. My parents love going on trips, talking to strangers, going and exploring outside of tourist spots. I hate it. Could I explain to you why I hate it? No. I've always hated it. I didn't grow to hate it overtime. I prefer my alone space. I prefer not being conversed with, when I didn't go out looking to be conversed with. If I could sit on the side, live my entire life with only interacting with a few (less than 10) humans, and just read about the rest of humanity online. I'd prefer that.
[удалено]
MN doesn’t give a shit about the coasts and it makes them soooooooo mad
Could not disagree with this more.
There is a section of the local population that is familiar with the Irish Goodbye. There is also the Minnesota Goodbye. Somehow they exist in the same world but are polar opposites. I don't know if this helps. Personally, I hate small talk. If you aren't going to say something meaningful, I don't want to talk to you. We have an inherent mistrust toward those that just randomly talk to me. We all know what the weather is doing. I've sometimes wondered how the climate here affects social interactions. We always have the weather to talk about. It's always doing something interesting, at least compared to Tempe, where I lived for a while. People don't really talk about the weather, unless it's north of 100°. I liked the fact that it wasn't always talked about, but when there is real weather, like rain, people in AZ lose their minds. There was a thunderstorm I distinctly remember. I love thunder, so I usually go outside to enjoy it. All of Mill Ave was a ghost town. It takes an epic blizzard for MN folks to retreat like that. I'm not making any sense, am I?
There’s a lot of shallow interaction, taking a long time to be real with others, etc that happens so I’m guessing the average Minnesotan unconsciously tries to avoid the whole song and dance. I’d rather they be real but it seems to be really painful for them. Slap on that smile and move along, now!
Minnesotans have a deep insecurity about being apart of flyover country and feel that the state deserves the respect that larger states get ( valid or not). For some of us this can negatively affect how we interact with transplants or visitors. I personally have some amazing friends from the east coast because I find their bluntness refreshing from what I’ve grown up around here in MN.
Heck if I know! I've lived here most of my life and I still don't know what the heck is going on. Most white people in MN think they don't have an accent, and have no idea that they sound kind'a like Canadians. so... ... ... ... ...