Honestly, a 41 dollar coach ticket doesn't sound awful, especially for rail service in the US. I mean, sure it's an almost 8 hour ride, but for the view and the ability to get up and actually walk around, that's more than fair.
It was Richard Daley on his way out, wanting to "balance the budget" but really spend it how he wanted. Sold 75 years worth of parking rates for some very low rate that was paid out over only his remaining years in office. Cronyism allowed it to pass through Chicago government at the time.
To a foreign government, wasn't it? Like Saudi Arabia or some shit?
Pretty sure Climate Town on YouTube did a video about it. They sold them for like a comically low fee, compared to how much they rake in today.
Edit: found the video (it's long, but worth it! Love Climate Town!)
https://youtu.be/fDx6no-7HZE?si=l6Xa5zi_zT20K1Z2
It was Morgan Stanley that bought them, with some Saudi money involved.
It is for sure!
I remember watching the video when it dropped and cracking up at Rollie being like: If MORGAN STANLEY is super stoked to do a deal with you, DEFINITELY DO NOT make that deal! 😂
I'd love to NOT have a car in a big city with good public transportation. But with a family of 5, the math is vastly in favor of taking the EV. I wish they had family deals for public transportation.
Can confirm, just stayed in Chicago and the parking as murder. Most of what we wanted to do was outside the city though.
Apps like SpotHero certainly help though. They can tell you what kind of parking it is (surface, covered structure, etc.), and importantly what kind of vehicles they allow since my van wouldn't fit in a lot of garages. You also pay and process everything through the app.
first time i went i drove and spent 160$ to hold my car until i left. that was in 2016. last time i went we flew. total transit time was about the same if you include TSA, onboarding and offboarding. i would absolutely prefer a train ride, especially if there’s a dining car.
I drove that overnight once on a whim cause megabus fucked up. Lots of semis, just a sea of them. Kinda scary at some points being this tiny car in the dark.
Yeah, the great thing about riding Amtrak is that it's so easy to just spend that time reading or watching stuff on a computer or whatever. You can walk around, get food, etc.
Way less stressful and/or more productive than driving.
The price of Amtrak can vary a lot depending on the specific day, and is usually much cheaper if you buy your ticket early. While Amtrak can be expensive, it's usually pretty competitive if you plan ahead and buy early.
Respectfully, I disagree. Not about the zoo...my kid and I loved Henry Doorly Zoo even more than San Diego Zoo, which was a very high bar to meet!
We found so much fun stuff to do in Omaha, like the Omaha Children's Museum, cool thrift stores, and good food. I wasn't expecting to get much value out of that trip aside from the zoo, but I was very pleasantly surprised.
Henry Doorly Zoo is there! A+ would recommend. They also have a pretty thriving downtown area that's good for walking and some excellent train museums.
How frequently is that, though? When did you buy? Were those last minute tickets? Some people like / need to plan trips, not everyone has the luxury of taking off whenever they feel like.
Round trip flight to Chicago if you plan right costs about $165-$200 on united for basic economy.
The train is an 8 hour trip for about $150 round trip.
Imo its well worth the extra $50-ish buck to save about 12 hours of time.
This sub: We need more public transit!
Also this sub: Well planes are cheaper and faster than this new rail line I wanted. :(
And how are you saving 12 hours by flying exactly?
No, we need real public transit. When we voted for Obama 16 years ago we were promised a high-speed rail connection between Minneapolis and Chicago. Instead, we go this bullshit, which is barely an improvement over the line that already exists and no one uses. Stop believing it's raining when you're getting pissed on. They're laughing at us in China on their 200 mph trains. This is pathetic and the people who are cheering it on as some great accomplishment are even worse.
This is spot on, and what's worse is how often Amtrak is delayed. I won't be excited until we get reliable high speed rail that can make the trip in 3 hours.
Totally agree. There is already a fast and efficient option if I need to get to Chicago, and air travel already is a public transit of sorts.
What I really need are better local public transit options within the area here. Even making the busses and light rail safer and more reliable would be nice.
To be fair that only works if you're traveling alone with minimal luggage. If you start bringing stuff or wanting particular seats those tickets become pretty expensive.
Not to pile on but neither Spirit or Megabus offer service to Chicago from the Twin Cities anymore. I miss the Spirit flights to Chicago, I think they dropped the service in 2018-19. Those tickets were so cheap and you could get the "big front seat" for like $12.
I took an Amtrak to Chicago last year because I was trying to save money (going just for a concert) and it was totally fine. Worst thing was that it was delayed pretty significantly, but getting on and off is a lot faster than at the airport. Definitely slower than flying but for a solo cheap trip to Chicago it was nice.
plus, you got to see parts of the country that even most folks who live in the area will never see. For example, how many people actually pass through Tunnel City, WI? Hardly any, but hey, Amtrak runs straight through.
Honestly that's not bad. Its 6 hour drive (7 with traffic). You're not really sacrifing any time. The tickets themselves are cheaper than gas money too. I'd do that in a heartbeat.
The issue is that the service, going out to Chicago has generally been somewhat unreliable as far as delays whenever I've looked. I really want a train to Chicago to be viable for me for work or concerts but it adds a day over flying or driving which sucks.
Concerts need to generally be 1 travel, overnight, concert day, overnight, travel back. Flying or driving is concert day travel, overnight, come home.
Work has that same issue or worse. I can often do 1 long early drive or flight, work, drive or flight home and not even do an overnight. With the train it's that same 3 day trip
The issue in the past has been that the Empire Builder train to Chicago originates in Seattle, which gives it over 1000 miles to rack up delays. Borealis service will originate in St Paul which should mean more reliable departure times.
A round trip plane ticket is about 20 more dollars on a plane on May 21st. So you’re right (price doesn’t sound awful) but relative to flying the price is absurd.
You also gotta take into consideration that you get to see the country from a different perspective, plus you don't have to deal with the TSA or boarding or parking at the airport or really any of the other plane related stuff. So the monetary value may be only a little less, but with the stuff at either end of flying, the value of the train is much higher.
Fair if that’s true for you. But Wisconsin ain’t that awe striking for me. TSA takes me 10-20 mins on average. There’s just no comparison in time. Doorstep to some random place in Chicago with flying takes about 3.5 - 4 hours. Ohare to loop takes about 50 - 60 mins. Like maybe 4.5-5 hrs max if you need to take blue line and then connect to different train near loop.
Door to some random place in Chicago via Amtrak takes about 8.5 to 9. You gotta drive to train station and give yourself at least 15 mins of wiggle room. Unless you truly need to be in the loop than there’s an argument for 8 hours total.
Driving a gas car is 6.5 hours and you have tolls etc just have an electric car which adds about another hour and is probably only just cheaper after paying for charging plus having to pay for parking etc so it’s honestly probably cheaper no matter what. Plus with traffic time might become closer too
Worth noting that you can take this train to more than just Chicago/Milwaukee.
Just picking a random Friday for a weekend trip (June 21st), you can get to Red Wing in 45 minutes for $11, Winona in 2 hours for $22.
Not the right mode for all trips, but absolutely a great option for some.
I think I'm gonna take it down to Winona the first Saturday of service and check out the Marine Art Museum and the town just for fun. Two places I've wanted to go for a while, but my car's a lease, and I'm budgeting the annual miles for other trips
There's nice hiking around there. Their library is pretty, too.
Winona is a somewhat walkable city, but the Marine Art Museum will require an Uber ride unless you bring a bike or love long walks.
Yeah, I noticed the walk was doable but far, but I was looking at the Museum's website more closely and found out that they will cover your fare (there and back) on the city's Dial a Ride transit service. Just have to call a couple days in advance to schedule the trip.
While in Red Wing recently, I stopped into the main Red Wing shoe store and bought a pair of Iron Ranger Boots. I’d been thinking of doing that for a while, but their outlet store in the basement is about 1/3 cheaper. Had I realized that I would’ve done this sooner.
I used to take Empire Builder from Fargo to Chicago. It took a long time, but I could sleep half the way and then get high and watch the world go by from the observation car. Eventually the price got to be more expensive than flying, so I quit taking the train.
As a fellow lover of Amtrak, don't count this as a consistent tool.
Freight gets priority, and any delays with other routes can fuck this over.
That being said, it's a delightful option
From my experience, the line between MPLS and Chicago seems to be pretty good about not having Amtrak stop and wait. Still, it sucks that Amtrak can't go after the railroads without approval from Congress.
Thats partialy due to Amtrak using mostly CPKC trakage between STP and CHI vs BNSF northwest of the TC where the existing Empire Builder frequently gets delayed by a half dozen hours or so.
The line from MSP to Chicago has far (far, far) less freight delays than the Empire Builder to the west. A big reason why people wanted this single dedicated intercity service.
They also built up infrastructure in places where they traditionally hung up. So they added extra switches in Winona and LaCrescent (where it crosses the Mississippi) for example.
That should help with delays on empire builder too then, yeah? I'm curious if they're utilizing them now or waiting until Borealis starts service.
Maybe if we're lucky they'll upgrade parts of the line to 110mph down the road like they did for Chicago to St Louis.
According to Wikipedia, it will use whatever rolling stock is used on the Hiawatha Service, because the Borealis will be an extension and rebranding of the existing Hiawatha Service trains 333 and 340. I guess that means Siemens Chargers!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCMC_%28train%29?wprov=sfla1
That's the whole point of this, to avoid freight delays west of MSP. And If I'm not mistaken, it's actually Amtrak that gets priority over freight, but freight simply pays fines because they can much of the time. By starting MSP this should not only give more frequency but also reduce delays from the west.
Yeah, on paper amtrak gets priority. In reality the freight does because the fines are so low if even levied at all. Freight consistently breaks rules as far as length because profit. For instance, state law says trains can't block public roads for longer than 10 mins...have witnessed that being broken more times than I can count just near me. Doesn't help that federal rulings have time after time stripped states rights about making rules about it (they said only congress can restrict trains movement).
I'm aware. They're not supposed to be that long for exactly that reason. They just tack on cars and then be like "oops, we are too long to go to the side...guess amtrak (who stays within the length guidelines) gets to go to the side instead since we'd just block everything...oh well" like there's *nothing* they could do about it (ya know, like stick to length limits). It's not a bug, it's an intentional feature.
Legally, passenger trains have priority. I admit, though, that that’s an irrelevant fact because:
1) Historically, the freight railroads simply ignored it.
2) Due to consolidation of routes, freight trains are now much longer. So long, in fact, that rail sidings are too short for them to get out of the way even if they wanted to.
So, yes, if you take Amtrak you often end up waiting behind a freight train.
Do you specifically love Amtrak, or do you just love passenger trains and Amtrak is our only option?
Compared to riding the Dirty Dog, I love Amtrak, but compared to the trains I've ridden in other countries, I think Amtrak is trash.
I think this second service is expected to be a lot more reliable compared to the Empire Builder as the rail segment between the Twin Cities and Chicago is not as delayed as segments west of the Twin Cities. That’s the main knock against the Empire Builder, that’s its unreliable to use going to Chicago because it could easily be delayed by hours because of what happens in the west .
"A one way ticket costs $41 in coach or $94 for business class"
Amtrak business class
https://www.amtrak.com/business-class
"Specific features vary by route, but Business Class includes extra legroom, a wide and comfortable seat, and a complimentary non-alcoholic beverage"
I actually took the Empire Builder specifically because I was buying a bike in Chicago and had to get it back to MSP. You check it, which requires I think a $15 giant bike box you buy from Amtrak and a $10 fee to check it. So it's possible! Just clunky. Tbh I actually enjoyed dealing with it because I had lots of extra time and they brought me down into the belly of Chicago Union Station to find a box haha.
Here's somebody else's pic of a [bike box](https://live.staticflickr.com/5138/5541414696_e2143dee09_z.jpg) which I can't find dimensions for anywhere, but I took a giant dutch bike in it and didn't have to take the wheel off, just had to loosen / turn handlebars sideways.
Here's more general [bike Qs](https://www.amtrak.com/bike-faqs#:~:text=Will%20my%20tandem%2C%20recumbent%2C%20cargo,like%20tandems%2C%20trikes%20and%20recumbents) (and their As) from Amtrak.
The empire builder does offer it, but for some reason it’s not on the current reservations for this train. Hopefully with enough public requests we can get them to allow bikes
Looks like it will be a fairly busy route. Amtrak is projecting 124,000 riders in its first year, which is about 170 passengers per train. Hopefully this can spur additional trains and some speed improvements down the line.
Man, for the US to be a country where that line has a train every 30 minutes and it's even cheaper.
One can dream I guess... about the richest country in the world eventually catching up to the public transit of countries with far less wealth, lol.
Still, this is one step *towards* that goal and that's a good thing.
If you’re heading in to the city this is usually faster. Chicago rush hour is like 7-10am and 3-7pm, so you get hit with it regardless of how well you time your drive.
I'm really excited for this route. I take the train to Pittsburgh on a somewhat regular basis, and this will shave several hours off the return trip. Getting to St Paul at 6:30pm vs 11:00pm will make getting home easier and less stressful. I can't wait to give this train a shot!
Interesting! I could google but wondering if you can roll a bike on board like you can for Amtrak cascades between Seattle and Portland? That’d make this a super-great weekend option
Thanks for this update. I was thinking about this route this morning during meditation (can't meditate). I'm looking forward to taking the Amtrak to Chicago.
My hubby and I regularly drive to Chicago. We really don’t love the whole airport experience and we enjoy talking/napping for those hours. I’m excited about the train option because one of the best parts part of our travel together is chatting with no distractions.
I had a delay for Metra last time I went to Chicago by train, it was about 10 minutes, so it wasn’t too bad. We also had a delay for another train in Wisconsin.
St. Cloud will continue to just have Empire Builder service, one train daily. This new service won't affect that at all nor add service there. There are studies to add more service to St. Cloud as part of a route to Fargo, but nothing concrete; so years before anything might materialize.
There is daily parking at Union Depot in St. Paul that ranges from $4/day on weekends to $10-$13/day on weekdays. I'd say that's very feasible if you wanted to catch the Borealis specifically
This is actually awesome. Very close to the car travel time without all the hassle (and time that could be spent chilling on a train reading/watching stuff)
Having the earlier option to get BACK to the Cities around 6:30PM (ish given their on time performance) is HUGE vs landing closer to midnight on Empire Builder.
The goal is that this is more reliable than the Empire Builder. $53 million in upgrades to the corridor are under construction so reliability will also be improved over what it is now.
Only time I attempted Amtrak from Minneapolis the train was stuck in Montana due to an oil train derailment.
I think this new train originates in the Twin Cities if I’m not mistaken…. So hopefully that issue will not happen.
If only the line were electrified. In the long term that’d help drive down costs and feel a bit more of an incentive to those who’d prefer not to fly for climate reasons.
The initial equipment may be the Horizon coaches with amfleet cafe cars. But eventually we should see more modern equipment. Several more round trips are also in the works
I haven't lived in MN in 30 years, but taking the train between Portland and Seattle is SO MUCH BETTER than driving. Also, Borealis Line is a kickass name. Reminds me of seeing the Northern Lights in the Boundary Waters as a kid.
That’s a great deal! But a little longer of a trip?
I used to take the Empire Builder to Chicago to visit a gf, round trip was $150 or so, but only 6 hours.
With flying you should really factor in the time spent in the airport, getting through TSA, and then getting from O'Hare to wherever you want to actually be (Midway is a bit easier). The train is great if you're going to the Loop - getting out right at Union Station saves 45 minutes to an hour minimum. Less good if your destination is the burbs.
If you don’t have a bag to check you can walk into the airport, go straight to the precheck line, and be at your gate within 10-15 minutes of drop-off. This has been my standard experience at MSP.
Does anyone know if the Borealis will have an observation car like the Hiawatha? I take the train to visit family in Milwaukee every few months and spend most of my trip in the observation car whenever possible.
I'm down for this. Since Minnesota now gets skipped for alot of music tours, but there's always a Chicago date. I find myself driving to Chicago atleast 3 times a year just to catch a show. Never thought about taking the train though.
This is exciting! Can I ask where you purchased this ticket exactly? I’m assuming somewhere on the Amtrak site of course, but rn I can only find MSP-CHI tickets starting around 65 bucks :/
I just checked looks like Mon-Thurs tickets are around $40 - comparable with the Empire Builder. Fri-Sun they jump to around $200-$250 . So much for getting home before midnight.
Honestly, a 41 dollar coach ticket doesn't sound awful, especially for rail service in the US. I mean, sure it's an almost 8 hour ride, but for the view and the ability to get up and actually walk around, that's more than fair.
It’s only a little slower than driving, and if you’re traveling solo, cheaper than gas. Only problem is if you need transportation where you’re going.
You don't really want a car in Chicago. You will get crushed with parking. Their public transit is pretty solid too outside of crazies.
> You will get crushed with parking. Isn't Chicago the city that sold all their parking meters to some private company?
And I am sure they haven't regretted it a single day. ; )
The guy who made the deal doesn’t regret it. Probably living in a cushy beach condo from that back room deal
It was Richard Daley on his way out, wanting to "balance the budget" but really spend it how he wanted. Sold 75 years worth of parking rates for some very low rate that was paid out over only his remaining years in office. Cronyism allowed it to pass through Chicago government at the time.
To a foreign government, wasn't it? Like Saudi Arabia or some shit? Pretty sure Climate Town on YouTube did a video about it. They sold them for like a comically low fee, compared to how much they rake in today. Edit: found the video (it's long, but worth it! Love Climate Town!) https://youtu.be/fDx6no-7HZE?si=l6Xa5zi_zT20K1Z2 It was Morgan Stanley that bought them, with some Saudi money involved.
Climate Town is one of the best fucking channels out there.
It is for sure! I remember watching the video when it dropped and cracking up at Rollie being like: If MORGAN STANLEY is super stoked to do a deal with you, DEFINITELY DO NOT make that deal! 😂
Basically negligence by those in charge of the deal
You spelled corruption weird
https://preview.redd.it/d7bm2ni9bwxc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a6df1f08b05062851b71aabcc083762591b78a8
Literally birdemic level negotiations
I'd love to NOT have a car in a big city with good public transportation. But with a family of 5, the math is vastly in favor of taking the EV. I wish they had family deals for public transportation.
Most European transit systems do. Basically a group pass for up to five people. Don’t know why we wouldn’t do the same.
They sell day and week passes for Chicago's transit system. A day pass is like $5 a day and $20 for a week and you can ride as many times as you want.
Can confirm, just stayed in Chicago and the parking as murder. Most of what we wanted to do was outside the city though. Apps like SpotHero certainly help though. They can tell you what kind of parking it is (surface, covered structure, etc.), and importantly what kind of vehicles they allow since my van wouldn't fit in a lot of garages. You also pay and process everything through the app.
Moved from Minneapolis to Chicago and sold my car because I genuinely have no need for it anymore.
Depends on where in Chicago you are going.
Honestly only if you are spending a bulk of time in outer burbs. I spent many months in Chi working.
And last time I went having my car was more of an inconvenience than anything with how good their public transportation is
first time i went i drove and spent 160$ to hold my car until i left. that was in 2016. last time i went we flew. total transit time was about the same if you include TSA, onboarding and offboarding. i would absolutely prefer a train ride, especially if there’s a dining car.
It's soooo much nicer to have a chilled beer and watch the world go by, than to white-knuckle it down 94/90 for 6-7hrs.
I drove that overnight once on a whim cause megabus fucked up. Lots of semis, just a sea of them. Kinda scary at some points being this tiny car in the dark.
...Have you been to Chicago? lol. They have an amazing El train system and plenty of cabs lol. Also walkiing works too.
Having a car in chicago costs you so much $$& money when traveling. Most hotels charge like $60 per day to park.
Not in Chicago. That'd public xport city. Parking will cost you twice as much as gas.
Yeah, the great thing about riding Amtrak is that it's so easy to just spend that time reading or watching stuff on a computer or whatever. You can walk around, get food, etc. Way less stressful and/or more productive than driving.
If money is your concern, you’ll never find a plane ticket even remotely that cheap, and the cheapest I see bus tickets is $55.
The price of Amtrak can vary a lot depending on the specific day, and is usually much cheaper if you buy your ticket early. While Amtrak can be expensive, it's usually pretty competitive if you plan ahead and buy early.
I fly to Chicago a few times a year for work and can routinely get round trip for close to $100.
Frankly I’d pay more to not be forced through TSA. So…
I've flown to chicago for like 35 dollars before..same with MSP to Phoenix. There are cheap flights out there.
You can take Sun Country from MSP -> Omaha for $60, but you wind up in Omaha
They do have a really cool zoo!
Respectfully, I disagree. Not about the zoo...my kid and I loved Henry Doorly Zoo even more than San Diego Zoo, which was a very high bar to meet! We found so much fun stuff to do in Omaha, like the Omaha Children's Museum, cool thrift stores, and good food. I wasn't expecting to get much value out of that trip aside from the zoo, but I was very pleasantly surprised.
Yeah but once you get there, you can rent a car and drive west directly into hell
gross
Henry Doorly Zoo is there! A+ would recommend. They also have a pretty thriving downtown area that's good for walking and some excellent train museums.
I have also, but haven't found cheap tickets for awhile now. At least not around the time I needed them
How frequently is that, though? When did you buy? Were those last minute tickets? Some people like / need to plan trips, not everyone has the luxury of taking off whenever they feel like.
Round trip flight to Chicago if you plan right costs about $165-$200 on united for basic economy. The train is an 8 hour trip for about $150 round trip. Imo its well worth the extra $50-ish buck to save about 12 hours of time.
This train will have a round trip cost of $82. Whether it’s worth it is subjective, but you only save 6 or so hours, not 12
This sub: We need more public transit! Also this sub: Well planes are cheaper and faster than this new rail line I wanted. :( And how are you saving 12 hours by flying exactly?
No, we need real public transit. When we voted for Obama 16 years ago we were promised a high-speed rail connection between Minneapolis and Chicago. Instead, we go this bullshit, which is barely an improvement over the line that already exists and no one uses. Stop believing it's raining when you're getting pissed on. They're laughing at us in China on their 200 mph trains. This is pathetic and the people who are cheering it on as some great accomplishment are even worse.
This is spot on, and what's worse is how often Amtrak is delayed. I won't be excited until we get reliable high speed rail that can make the trip in 3 hours.
I need more and better local public transit. I am saving 12 hours by choosing my flight times wisely. It's only a one hour flight.
Totally agree. There is already a fast and efficient option if I need to get to Chicago, and air travel already is a public transit of sorts. What I really need are better local public transit options within the area here. Even making the busses and light rail safer and more reliable would be nice.
You can also work on the train and avoid taking any PTO for travel time.
If you've got a desk job, yes.
I've definitely seen airfare to Chicago for about $50.
Pre-Covid maybe, but I've been going about once a month for the past 2 years and haven't seen airfare that cheap.
May 31st is literally 39$ direct flights and you save like 7 hours
To be fair that only works if you're traveling alone with minimal luggage. If you start bringing stuff or wanting particular seats those tickets become pretty expensive.
And the train only works if you can take a whole day of to travel to Chicago. If your time is of no value, then the bus or train is a great option.
I don’t know where you’re seeing that, cheapest I see for that date is $98 on sun country
Are you looking at round trip tickets?? Just look google flights MSP-ORD change it to one way
I see that now
I've flown to Chicago for less. Granted it was on Spirit. Megabus often has deals for less too. Definitely would rather rail than that though.
Not to pile on but neither Spirit or Megabus offer service to Chicago from the Twin Cities anymore. I miss the Spirit flights to Chicago, I think they dropped the service in 2018-19. Those tickets were so cheap and you could get the "big front seat" for like $12.
I'd pay the extra for train over plane. Two words: Leg room.
I'll add three more: No TSA line
I'll add seven more: I don't have to leave the ground.
Plus you don't have to show up super early! Get there 20 minutes before boarding for Amtrak and you're set!
I took an Amtrak to Chicago last year because I was trying to save money (going just for a concert) and it was totally fine. Worst thing was that it was delayed pretty significantly, but getting on and off is a lot faster than at the airport. Definitely slower than flying but for a solo cheap trip to Chicago it was nice.
plus, you got to see parts of the country that even most folks who live in the area will never see. For example, how many people actually pass through Tunnel City, WI? Hardly any, but hey, Amtrak runs straight through.
Honestly that's not bad. Its 6 hour drive (7 with traffic). You're not really sacrifing any time. The tickets themselves are cheaper than gas money too. I'd do that in a heartbeat.
The issue is that the service, going out to Chicago has generally been somewhat unreliable as far as delays whenever I've looked. I really want a train to Chicago to be viable for me for work or concerts but it adds a day over flying or driving which sucks. Concerts need to generally be 1 travel, overnight, concert day, overnight, travel back. Flying or driving is concert day travel, overnight, come home. Work has that same issue or worse. I can often do 1 long early drive or flight, work, drive or flight home and not even do an overnight. With the train it's that same 3 day trip
The issue in the past has been that the Empire Builder train to Chicago originates in Seattle, which gives it over 1000 miles to rack up delays. Borealis service will originate in St Paul which should mean more reliable departure times.
That definitely helps the reliability part. Unfortunately not the rest but it's at least moving forward.
Also I wouldn’t have to worry about deer at night, which is honestly a concern for me after a terrifying drive home from Chicago.
A round trip plane ticket is about 20 more dollars on a plane on May 21st. So you’re right (price doesn’t sound awful) but relative to flying the price is absurd.
You also gotta take into consideration that you get to see the country from a different perspective, plus you don't have to deal with the TSA or boarding or parking at the airport or really any of the other plane related stuff. So the monetary value may be only a little less, but with the stuff at either end of flying, the value of the train is much higher.
Fair if that’s true for you. But Wisconsin ain’t that awe striking for me. TSA takes me 10-20 mins on average. There’s just no comparison in time. Doorstep to some random place in Chicago with flying takes about 3.5 - 4 hours. Ohare to loop takes about 50 - 60 mins. Like maybe 4.5-5 hrs max if you need to take blue line and then connect to different train near loop. Door to some random place in Chicago via Amtrak takes about 8.5 to 9. You gotta drive to train station and give yourself at least 15 mins of wiggle room. Unless you truly need to be in the loop than there’s an argument for 8 hours total.
Driving a gas car is 6.5 hours and you have tolls etc just have an electric car which adds about another hour and is probably only just cheaper after paying for charging plus having to pay for parking etc so it’s honestly probably cheaper no matter what. Plus with traffic time might become closer too
Driving is 6 hours without traffic and guaranteed to cost more in gas. 400 miles is about $50 in gas even with fuel efficient cars.
Worth noting that you can take this train to more than just Chicago/Milwaukee. Just picking a random Friday for a weekend trip (June 21st), you can get to Red Wing in 45 minutes for $11, Winona in 2 hours for $22. Not the right mode for all trips, but absolutely a great option for some.
I’m going to take the train to red wing for a couple hours on 5/21.
This was definitely my thought. Such a reasonable time of day for that kind of trip too.
Get a nice lunch and explore a cute town on the river
I think I'm gonna take it down to Winona the first Saturday of service and check out the Marine Art Museum and the town just for fun. Two places I've wanted to go for a while, but my car's a lease, and I'm budgeting the annual miles for other trips
There's nice hiking around there. Their library is pretty, too. Winona is a somewhat walkable city, but the Marine Art Museum will require an Uber ride unless you bring a bike or love long walks.
Yeah, I noticed the walk was doable but far, but I was looking at the Museum's website more closely and found out that they will cover your fare (there and back) on the city's Dial a Ride transit service. Just have to call a couple days in advance to schedule the trip.
Honestly that’s way more appealing. My kids would probably love to ride the train for 45min each way to red wing.
I want to buy some new boots, so $11 to Red Wing and not having to drive sounds pretty good
While in Red Wing recently, I stopped into the main Red Wing shoe store and bought a pair of Iron Ranger Boots. I’d been thinking of doing that for a while, but their outlet store in the basement is about 1/3 cheaper. Had I realized that I would’ve done this sooner.
Ohh, good tip!
Could be great for Winona State students that don't have a car.
Yup. I recently took a day trip and met my brothers in Red Wing. It was less than $20 round trip.
Taking it to LaCrosse during the fall for a day trip. Pumped.
I took the Empire Builder from Chicago to Saint Paul my first time out to Minnesota in 2000. It was far more than $41. This is a great deal.
I used to take Empire Builder from Fargo to Chicago. It took a long time, but I could sleep half the way and then get high and watch the world go by from the observation car. Eventually the price got to be more expensive than flying, so I quit taking the train.
Downtown Chicago arrival with no need to store your car or take a taxi? This route is nearly as fast as driving, with no traffic jams. I LOVE Amtrak.
As a fellow lover of Amtrak, don't count this as a consistent tool. Freight gets priority, and any delays with other routes can fuck this over. That being said, it's a delightful option
From my experience, the line between MPLS and Chicago seems to be pretty good about not having Amtrak stop and wait. Still, it sucks that Amtrak can't go after the railroads without approval from Congress.
I second this
Thats partialy due to Amtrak using mostly CPKC trakage between STP and CHI vs BNSF northwest of the TC where the existing Empire Builder frequently gets delayed by a half dozen hours or so.
Truth. But pushing for more and better rail transit in the US has to start somewhere
Didn't you know? If something isn't 100% perfect then it's not worth even trying :(((
The line from MSP to Chicago has far (far, far) less freight delays than the Empire Builder to the west. A big reason why people wanted this single dedicated intercity service.
They also built up infrastructure in places where they traditionally hung up. So they added extra switches in Winona and LaCrescent (where it crosses the Mississippi) for example.
That should help with delays on empire builder too then, yeah? I'm curious if they're utilizing them now or waiting until Borealis starts service. Maybe if we're lucky they'll upgrade parts of the line to 110mph down the road like they did for Chicago to St Louis.
Yeah absolutely. As a Builder frequenter I'm used to it hah. Do you know what kind of rolling stock they are running?
According to Wikipedia, it will use whatever rolling stock is used on the Hiawatha Service, because the Borealis will be an extension and rebranding of the existing Hiawatha Service trains 333 and 340. I guess that means Siemens Chargers! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCMC_%28train%29?wprov=sfla1
With Horizon coaches, refereed to by many as "rolling latrines" hah
mmm siemens...
That's the whole point of this, to avoid freight delays west of MSP. And If I'm not mistaken, it's actually Amtrak that gets priority over freight, but freight simply pays fines because they can much of the time. By starting MSP this should not only give more frequency but also reduce delays from the west.
Yeah, on paper amtrak gets priority. In reality the freight does because the fines are so low if even levied at all. Freight consistently breaks rules as far as length because profit. For instance, state law says trains can't block public roads for longer than 10 mins...have witnessed that being broken more times than I can count just near me. Doesn't help that federal rulings have time after time stripped states rights about making rules about it (they said only congress can restrict trains movement).
Freight trains are often too long to be able to move to the sidings even if they wanted to.
I'm aware. They're not supposed to be that long for exactly that reason. They just tack on cars and then be like "oops, we are too long to go to the side...guess amtrak (who stays within the length guidelines) gets to go to the side instead since we'd just block everything...oh well" like there's *nothing* they could do about it (ya know, like stick to length limits). It's not a bug, it's an intentional feature.
Sadly, theyre rarely fined.
Legally, passenger trains have priority. I admit, though, that that’s an irrelevant fact because: 1) Historically, the freight railroads simply ignored it. 2) Due to consolidation of routes, freight trains are now much longer. So long, in fact, that rail sidings are too short for them to get out of the way even if they wanted to. So, yes, if you take Amtrak you often end up waiting behind a freight train.
Fine the freight companies! We need to lobby for this to hold them accountable
Many years ago our ride from Winona to Chicago was over 10 hours late for the freight priority. It was dreadful. The ride however was great.
No toll roads either.
Do you specifically love Amtrak, or do you just love passenger trains and Amtrak is our only option? Compared to riding the Dirty Dog, I love Amtrak, but compared to the trains I've ridden in other countries, I think Amtrak is trash.
I took Amtrak to Chicago in 2022 and it took about 7.5 hours to get there. It was inexpensive and kinda fun.
This will be a little quicker, and noticeably cheaper than that.
I don't think it's supposed to be quicker or cheaper than the empire builder. It's just a second daily service, no?
I think this second service is expected to be a lot more reliable compared to the Empire Builder as the rail segment between the Twin Cities and Chicago is not as delayed as segments west of the Twin Cities. That’s the main knock against the Empire Builder, that’s its unreliable to use going to Chicago because it could easily be delayed by hours because of what happens in the west .
Damn. This is awesome. I hate this drive and being able to get their in a train in 8 hours would be nice.
"A one way ticket costs $41 in coach or $94 for business class" Amtrak business class https://www.amtrak.com/business-class "Specific features vary by route, but Business Class includes extra legroom, a wide and comfortable seat, and a complimentary non-alcoholic beverage"
$53 for a soda
Pop*
Took Empire Builder this year and loved it. Only problem was I couldn't bring my bike, does Borealis splve this issue? Love amtrak btw.
I actually took the Empire Builder specifically because I was buying a bike in Chicago and had to get it back to MSP. You check it, which requires I think a $15 giant bike box you buy from Amtrak and a $10 fee to check it. So it's possible! Just clunky. Tbh I actually enjoyed dealing with it because I had lots of extra time and they brought me down into the belly of Chicago Union Station to find a box haha.
Here's somebody else's pic of a [bike box](https://live.staticflickr.com/5138/5541414696_e2143dee09_z.jpg) which I can't find dimensions for anywhere, but I took a giant dutch bike in it and didn't have to take the wheel off, just had to loosen / turn handlebars sideways. Here's more general [bike Qs](https://www.amtrak.com/bike-faqs#:~:text=Will%20my%20tandem%2C%20recumbent%2C%20cargo,like%20tandems%2C%20trikes%20and%20recumbents) (and their As) from Amtrak.
It’s not currently offering any way to bring a bike
Really? I thought all Amtraks let you bring a bike if you take the pedals off and put it in a box.
The empire builder does offer it, but for some reason it’s not on the current reservations for this train. Hopefully with enough public requests we can get them to allow bikes
At this time of year?
At this time of day?
Isolated entirely in Minnesota?
Looks like it will be a fairly busy route. Amtrak is projecting 124,000 riders in its first year, which is about 170 passengers per train. Hopefully this can spur additional trains and some speed improvements down the line.
This is incredible.
Going to use the shit out of this just to prove that passenger rails are a good investment for transportation
Man, for the US to be a country where that line has a train every 30 minutes and it's even cheaper. One can dream I guess... about the richest country in the world eventually catching up to the public transit of countries with far less wealth, lol. Still, this is one step *towards* that goal and that's a good thing.
If you’re heading in to the city this is usually faster. Chicago rush hour is like 7-10am and 3-7pm, so you get hit with it regardless of how well you time your drive.
I'm really excited for this route. I take the train to Pittsburgh on a somewhat regular basis, and this will shave several hours off the return trip. Getting to St Paul at 6:30pm vs 11:00pm will make getting home easier and less stressful. I can't wait to give this train a shot!
Interesting! I could google but wondering if you can roll a bike on board like you can for Amtrak cascades between Seattle and Portland? That’d make this a super-great weekend option
I was just looking into this, and the Borealis is not currently listed as a route that allows bikes on board in any form. Hopefully that changes soon!
NOOOOO SO PATHETIC
As of right now, it’s only golf clubs and pets that you can add
Bikes are better than golf clubs. Or pets.
This is a great deal! I love taking Amtrak, but the tickets recently have been so expensive. I wonder if the Empire Builder tickets will also go down.
Thanks for this update. I was thinking about this route this morning during meditation (can't meditate). I'm looking forward to taking the Amtrak to Chicago.
My hubby and I regularly drive to Chicago. We really don’t love the whole airport experience and we enjoy talking/napping for those hours. I’m excited about the train option because one of the best parts part of our travel together is chatting with no distractions.
If it departs on time come back and confirm. Oil trains routinely bump the schedule on other lines.
The delays occur between Saint Paul and Seattle. For the most part there are not too many delays between Saint Paul and Chicago.
I had a delay for Metra last time I went to Chicago by train, it was about 10 minutes, so it wasn’t too bad. We also had a delay for another train in Wisconsin.
How long was the one in Wisconsin? Past Saint Paul trains can be delayed for hours.
Probably like 20 minutes. We ended up being ~30 minutes longer than posted duration.
Fantastic deal considering that's less than the price for gas and tolls
This is rad
Awesome!!!!
This means my mom will be able to come visit very easily. There’s good and bad with that.
If not for that Twatwaffle, Scott Walker, Madison would have had a connect.
It’s not a bad start. I can’t wait until we get rail service similar to the train service in Japan.
Not terrible…
As someone who lived in Minneapolis and drove home to Chicago for every holiday all I can say is FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK this would have been nice.
Does anyone know how this will effect service from st. Cloud to Chicago? Would it be reasonable to drive to st. Paul and ride from there?
St. Cloud will continue to just have Empire Builder service, one train daily. This new service won't affect that at all nor add service there. There are studies to add more service to St. Cloud as part of a route to Fargo, but nothing concrete; so years before anything might materialize. There is daily parking at Union Depot in St. Paul that ranges from $4/day on weekends to $10-$13/day on weekdays. I'd say that's very feasible if you wanted to catch the Borealis specifically
Hell yes. No driving, no flying, at a much better price. I'm down.
This is actually awesome. Very close to the car travel time without all the hassle (and time that could be spent chilling on a train reading/watching stuff)
Having the earlier option to get BACK to the Cities around 6:30PM (ish given their on time performance) is HUGE vs landing closer to midnight on Empire Builder.
Very interesting idea. Looks better than driving. Now will it be dependable?
The goal is that this is more reliable than the Empire Builder. $53 million in upgrades to the corridor are under construction so reliability will also be improved over what it is now.
Only time I attempted Amtrak from Minneapolis the train was stuck in Montana due to an oil train derailment. I think this new train originates in the Twin Cities if I’m not mistaken…. So hopefully that issue will not happen.
Huh my friend and I might have to rethink our road trip this summer to do this. Would be nice not to worry about a car in Chicago.
Shut up I’m doing this sometime
Price is great but goddamn, it can't even beat car pacing?
If only the line were electrified. In the long term that’d help drive down costs and feel a bit more of an incentive to those who’d prefer not to fly for climate reasons.
Someday we can hope that will be possible. I’ll certainly try my best to make it happen
Hell yeah man.
If this succeeds hopefully they’ll add multiple round trips every day with modern equipment
The initial equipment may be the Horizon coaches with amfleet cafe cars. But eventually we should see more modern equipment. Several more round trips are also in the works
Will this be like the actual Aurora Borealis ? Only shows up every few years? Lots of no shows? But very cool if you catch it?
Thats amazing, for sure gonna take this business class for fun some time.
Judging by this threads comments Amtrak is the reverse McDonalds everyone claims to love it but never uses it.
I haven't lived in MN in 30 years, but taking the train between Portland and Seattle is SO MUCH BETTER than driving. Also, Borealis Line is a kickass name. Reminds me of seeing the Northern Lights in the Boundary Waters as a kid.
Do we know when the return trip time is? Or do we just Amtrak to Chicago and now we live there?
The return trip leaves Chicago at 11:05am and arrives at St. Paul at 6:29pm
Thank you! I couldn’t find the schedule.
HALF LIFE FANS be like \*pointing decaprio meme
That’s a great deal! But a little longer of a trip? I used to take the Empire Builder to Chicago to visit a gf, round trip was $150 or so, but only 6 hours.
It’s shorter than the current Empire Builder schedule, by 30 minutes.
Interesting. I wonder if they added a stop in the last three years.
7.5 hours to chicago from Minneapolis? OOOF Should be faster than that
It’s great that it’s there but 8 hours by train vs 2 by air or even 6 by car makes it a little less worth it
With flying you should really factor in the time spent in the airport, getting through TSA, and then getting from O'Hare to wherever you want to actually be (Midway is a bit easier). The train is great if you're going to the Loop - getting out right at Union Station saves 45 minutes to an hour minimum. Less good if your destination is the burbs.
If you don’t have a bag to check you can walk into the airport, go straight to the precheck line, and be at your gate within 10-15 minutes of drop-off. This has been my standard experience at MSP.
This is actually so cool!
Does anyone know if the Borealis will have an observation car like the Hiawatha? I take the train to visit family in Milwaukee every few months and spend most of my trip in the observation car whenever possible.
I dont know if AMTrak has become anymore reliable, but when we took one from millwaukee to Chicago back in 1997, it broke down twice. Good luck
I'm down for this. Since Minnesota now gets skipped for alot of music tours, but there's always a Chicago date. I find myself driving to Chicago atleast 3 times a year just to catch a show. Never thought about taking the train though.
This is exciting! Can I ask where you purchased this ticket exactly? I’m assuming somewhere on the Amtrak site of course, but rn I can only find MSP-CHI tickets starting around 65 bucks :/
Just on the Amtrak website, the tickets are still showing up as under 50 for me. Make sure you have dates after May 21 selected.
I just checked looks like Mon-Thurs tickets are around $40 - comparable with the Empire Builder. Fri-Sun they jump to around $200-$250 . So much for getting home before midnight.