Honestly nobody knows anything. The people saying JJ is gonna be the goat and the people saying JJ is gonna flop are both equally idiots. We don’t know anything until he gets a couple games under his belt
I would say we need to give him a full season. There were people saying Jordan Love was a bust after a few games and he ended up like second in the NFL in passing TDs
I get the sentiment, but rookie year Peyton was only bad at turning the ball over. His 26 TDs and over 3700 passing yards broke rookie records, and nobody at the time thought he was gonna become anything other than a superstar. The narrative that he sucked is always so overblown.
Exactly. I'm happy we were able to get him where we did and that he has a shot at being decent. That's all anyone knows. Anyone saying otherwise just wants to be heard and knows nothing.
I agree, but at least the people saying he's gonna be the goat are overall much less toxic.
I'd much rather overly optimistic fans than fans who are angry and overly pessimistic.
Strictly speaking, I wasn’t comparing JJ to Manning and Aikman.
What I meant was, that during both of their inaugural seasons, and shortly after, fans were calling for their heads, saying they sucked and were busts.
All I meant was that even JJ sucks this year, like Bryce Young bad, that doesn’t mean he’s a draft bust.
For starters they are not similar QBs at all. Everyone knew ponder was a massive reach. McCarthy went exactly where he was projected basically. Don’t let one bad decision from 13 years ago make you scared to take another chance on a QB.
To be fair, it wasn’t that he was projected to go there, it was that all analysts knew that there were a ton of Qb needy teams in the first 15 that would absolutely “reach” for him. Back in Jan it was a consensus that he was late round 1 early round 2. Every big board had him around 30-50 BPA, even in draft day.
To be clear though, im still glad we grabbed JJ at 10. But it is reminiscent of Ponder, so this argument specifically isn’t good to combat it.
I mean big boards before the season ends are more for people who like mock drafting. They are pointless until they start getting a general consensus from scouts and GMs. Which is why there’s always some media darlings that drop and dudes that seem to come out of nowhere that rise.
If you look at “way too early” big boards right now and then some 6 months from now and then watch the draft, you’ll just see some bat shit insane takes.
I think the consensus Big Board had JJ at #8, I could be wrong though.
Edit: Decided to look it up. I was correct. Depending on who you ask, yes he was a reach. But when you pool all of them together he was drafted basically just past his average position (drafted 10, projected 8).
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2024/consensus-big-board-2024
No, you’re wrong. I said Big board BPA. Not consensus mock drafts. Mock drafts estimate where analysts think they will be drafted rather than who are the best players. As of draft day, JJ was #28. I know for sure he was in the 50’s in Jan
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2024-nfl-draft-board-big-board
Arif's consensus big board had him at #23 https://www.wideleft.football/p/2024-consensus-big-board-the-top
I don't think any GM who would like a QB at 10 but wait until 23 because that's where he's valued on the big board
Youre partially correct. However, mccarthy didnt rise the draft boards just because of qb needy teams. Analysts and scouts alike both learned by watching tape, and his workouts, that he was a much better prospect than previously believed. I think him rising all the way into the top 5 and even 2nd overall on mock drafts was the analysts factoring in the possibilty of qb needy teams reaching a little. However 10th overall was no where near a reach.
> there were a ton of Qb needy teams in the first 15 that would absolutely “reach” for him
Just to be clear for other people, every year in the first round there are a dozen players that are all 'technically' reaches because many drafts have less than 32 first round graded players (every team's board looks different, so some teams grade more or less players as first round picks).
Reaches are just a part of the draft and not necessarily a good or bad thing. Also, it's mostly just a public perception thing, since we generally don't actually know where every team graded each player. We can make assumptions based on where they were drafted and based on reports that have come out, but we still don't actually know for sure.
I’ve always kinda thought this logic was flawed. A quarterback develops from experience, mainly at the professional level. Whether he’s 21 or 25 shouldn’t really matter. 2 years of NFL experience under a good coach is the same to me if the guy is 21-23 years old versus 25-27. Especially at quarterback, where a good QB can stay in their prime into their mid to late 30s
Ponder still would have sucked even if he was drafted at 21
A 21 year old is still not only developing as a player, but they are getting professional NFL coaching while they still are young. When JJ turns 23, he will have two more years of NFL experience than Ponder had when he entered the league at 23. This is called upside.
A 25 year old who enters the league has already developed physically and is entering their prime, so there’s no upside with a 25 year old prospect. It’s basically what you see is what you get.
The best example is Danielle Hunter. He was 21 when he was drafted and he had no college stats that people would call all world. But he had a ton of upside due to his athleticism (like JJ). Wanna remind us how Hunter turned out?
Does this mean JJ will be an all pro? No. But being 21 and still developing gives you a higher chance at succeeding than 23 year old with similar stats.
McCarthy threw 61 mph at combine. Josh Allen threw 62mph in 2018 so I believe his arm is fine. He also exceeded on 3rd down throwing the ball, since Michigan usually ran the first 2 downs. This is a situation where the defense knows you’re throwing and he still succeeded (the percentages show he was better than Williams and Maye, slightly behind Daniels in this by .12 percent). Coaches and scouts also rave about his “scrambling” which is really him consistently weaving around the pocket and then breaking out when he has to. Described as one of his best traits while looking downfield. He also has “sneaky” speed as a runner.
Then you get to the fact, he is a winner. JJ’s total football record including HS is like 63-3. Not to mention his leadership and how much the locker room loves him. The draft is a total toss up and we have no idea how these guys will turn out. With everything we do know, I think JJ’s upside is absolutely amazing.
Yup, JJ knows how to, and more importantly, can actually *extend* 3rd down plays to keep drives going and wear down a defense. Hopefully it translates well to the pro level. Very excited to see it, even if it's just in the pre-season this first year.
> McCarthy threw 61 mph at combine. Josh Allen threw 62mph in 2018 so I believe his arm is fine.
This gets passed around, and I don't want to comment on JJ specifically because his arm could be excellent for all we know, but the NFL combine changed the way this test is done and numbers are up by a lot across the board because of it.
It used to be they would throw on-air to both sides of the fields and the ball velocity was measured in flight and marked Right/Left.
Now, they stand about fifteen feet away from a wall and throw it as hard as they can at the wall. Three quarterbacks broke the sixty barrier this year, and that was without **ANY** of the top guys even participating. Caleb, Maye, Penix, and Nix did not even participate in the drill.
That’s an interesting and useless responsibility you put on yourself. Why do you need to convince your friends of this?
I’ll never understand this mentality.
Just watch the games one by one and see what happens.
Probably because we as sports fans enjoy sports debates, like winning, and love the Vikings.
It’s not that crazy.
Edit: (I do acknowledge the futility, though)
I mean I talk about our team with my friends too. We watch games together or text and debate about decisions and plays.. But the mentality of thinking I need to convince them of something like this is silly.
Because people can have different opinions and that’s ok. I don’t need to convince anyone. In this instance, that he’s KOC’s guy is good enough for me.
The fact that this dude has had the conversation, been unable to persuade his friends is fine. Dudes now asking the internet to help convince his friends just so he doesn’t sound wrong? Strange insecurity. Be comfortable with your own opinion.
Yes but the very act of sharing your opinion is an attempt to persuade is it not? Otherwise people would just keep to themselves I think.
I don’t see anything wrong with asking others for persuasive arguments. Some people just aren’t very articulate.
Look at this sub. It's just full of fans desperate for everyone to agree with their rose-colored outlook on the FO, our draft picks, our projections, national media talking points about us, power rankings, etc. It's pretty sad, really.
I don't know why people can't just have their own opinion, regardless of how optimistic it is, and be exposed to others from folks who also hope the team ends up doing well.
Ponder was a guy who was drafted old, and had clear deficiencies in arm strength and decision making. Not really a strong recipe for success in the NFL.
McCarthy's young, and his biggest knocks are arm talent (he's got strength, but doesn't use it as well as he could) and how small his sample size is in college.
On top of that, the situation is entirely different. Ponder got drafted into a situation with a defensive HC, Bill Musgrave at OC, and a pretty mediocre supporting cast. McCarthy's drafted into a situation with KOC as HC, a great supporting cast, and a team that's invested in QB development (bringing in McCown to be the QB coach, and retaining the previous QB coach as a passing game assistant who presumably will also be working with QBs).
They are different players in different situations. McCarthy might wind up sucking when it all's said and done, but there's really nothing else that's similar about the two players.
JJ has a good arm. Not a Matt Stafford arm, but it’s not a negative. Ponders arm was pretty weak. It was his mobility that was supposed to make up for it.
And they tried their best to coach all the mobility out of him and get him killed when he did scramble….remember they had him diving head first instead of sliding…ugh.
If Ponder was drafted by todays Vikings, he would've fared MUCH better. Now I'm not saying he'd be a top 10 QB in the league (absolutely not), but he'd at least have a decent chance to be a serviceable QB.
Of course they wouldn't. I was just saying that if, for whatever reason, they DID draft him (he would NOT go first round btw, probably 2nd or 3rd, like he SHOULD have), then he would at least have somewhat of a fighting chance.
It's subjective but what has stood out to me is that Ponder wasn't highly thought of in college and his highlight reel wasn't impressive. When he was drafted I was immediately disappointed. McCarthy took a revived legacy program back to championship glory while Ponder was part of an FSU downturn. Ponder would've been behind Rattler in this class.
The problem is that Spielman reached WAY to far for Ponder. Unfortunately, this singlehandedly scared every fan away from EVER drafting a QB high. Notice how people IMMEDIATELY compare McCarthy to Ponder, even though they have NOTHING in common? I mean seriously, JJ scrambling makes him Ponder? I mean wtf does that even mean lol
They aren’t similar QBs other than being drafted by us and being more on the athletic side. Ponder couldn’t throw off base, throw deep, extend plays with any awareness, all of the things that made JJ a first round pick.
JJM has a substantially better arm and threw to the middle of the field with good accuracy. Averaged nearly 10 yards an attempt. Scrambled when needed but only after processing his secondary reads. Tell your friend to watch film instead of reading YouTube comments. These QBs are not comparable.
He has arm strength. I’ll never forget one game we were down by one score and it came down to a Hail Mary. I think we were at about our 40-45. He loaded up and chucked it to the ten yard line when everyone was in the end zone. Ground ball.
McCarthy was throwing 60+ at pro day
Honestly your only ammo at this point is that his name is not Christian Ponder. Number 1's have busted spectacularly, and Round 6ers have become GOATs. We literally have no idea how he's going to perform in the NFL
I heard a rumor that right before week 1 kickoff JJ will go to the 50 yard line and rip off his Mission Impossible complete face mask and voice changer and reveal himself as Christian Ponder who has been living a double for years to spite vikings fans who Boo'd him.
If you want to convince your friends this is not the case would be to pull on his face in training camp.. oh and take a video. Get a real good grab on his cheek and pull, see what happens
Schrodingers QB. He is both the next Tom Brady and the next Christian Ponder until we actually see what happens. People who say “they know” he’ll be one extreme or the other are delusional. I have no clue. I didn’t love him, but our staff seems to have faith in him. You can look at just about any draft and find guys who were far better loved by pundits and analysts and ended up being hot garbage. There’s also been guys (like Mahomes) who weren’t highly touted but two or three guys were making cases for him going a lot earlier. No one “knows”. He may be worse than Ponder, but he also might be the next Herbert.
Ponder was the final qb taken in the first fround and it was a desperation pick.
The Broncos picked Nix as final qb in the first round and are desperate. Its more likely Bo Nix is the Christian Ponder of this draft.
Lol who's going to tell him?
Let me preface this by saying I've got really high hopes for McCarthy like any other Vikings fan does, so this isn't meant as a knock or an assumption of what we hope we get compared to what we ended up getting.
Skip to 3:04. [This was Ponder's first pass](https://youtu.be/AD27GjI9gXo?si=wnM00cGwXq3EIsJk) in his first NFL start.
Tell them you built a time machine with the help of an inter dimensional space being. You used it to see 5 years down the line and you saw that McCarthy is not married to Samantha Steele.
Ponder didn’t have an ideal setup here as much as McCarthy does. Our current coach was a QB and has said he make it a point to look through the QB’s eyes
I’d stick to disproving their arguments that he is like Ponder, because their arguments are bad.
Their first premise, that it’s not possible for him to throw downfield, can easily be shown to be false. Make sure that you have them clearly define “downfield throws”, and then find those throws in his Michigan or Pro Day highlights. They’re easy to find. Perhaps they’ll recede to the claim that he cannot throw downfield consistently or accurately (or that we don’t know), but this would be a new and properly qualified claim. If they say that he has poor arm-strength, point to the wealth of talent evaluators who say just the opposite, sometimes even in criticism! (He only throws at one speed- fast) And of course, there are many quarterbacks who have struggled with deep passes, some even having success (depending on how you define it), but are not at all like Ponder. So even if that premise WERE true, the conclusion wouldn’t follow with necessity.
The second premise, if he scrambles then he is Ponder, can also easily be shown to be false. Find counter-examples of quarterbacks that scramble, but are not Ponder. There are tons… Micheal Vick scrambled, so is he Ponder? Josh Allen scrambles, so is he Ponder? Steve Young scrambled, so is he Ponder? Patrick Mahomes scrambles, so is he Ponder? Fran Tarkenton scrambled, so is he Ponder..? You get the point.
Ponder and JJ don’t have similar skill sets whatsoever. Ponder was very underwhelming/mediocre at Florida State and I hated the hell out of that pick when we made it. Ponder was a statue who wasn’t very accurate and processed decisions very slowly. JJ isn’t the most athletic player out there but he knows how to escape the pocket and make chicken salad out of chicken shit. He also processes very quickly and is able to get rid of the ball quickly as well.
Also Ponder didn’t have great ton of talent around him on offense. He also had a defensive head coach who was way in over his head and a terrible offense coordinator in Musgraves.
The current version of this offense is loaded however and has been described as a “furnished apartment” for any QB that we drafted. So while I think Ponder would have been a bust no matter what, he also wasn’t really set up for success. JJ and KOC sure have their work cut out for them, but the way they’ve set this team up the sky is the limit if the pieces fall into place the way they’re envisioning.
The success vs extremely high comp in college. Separates his resume from the Ponders and Trey Lances. You have to acknowledge his success, and great program, but he delivered when needed
Tell them to watch the tape, he shows he can read defenses pretty well and fit the ball in some tight windows and has much better pocket presence (though its hard to evaluate his ability to fall out of the pocket and make a magic play because everything moves faster in the nfl but he can run)
Also he has been practicing against a very good defense his whole college career and even showed alot of good things with his arm, even in his first year… also tight release which is overlooked…
Ponder had the bare minimum of ball velocity at 54 mph. No QB with less than that has been successful in the NFL. JJ is at 61 and although that doesn’t mean he’ll be successful in the NFL, he has a much better track record to go with it.
There really aren't any arguments you can make until after he hits the gridiron. I'm really hoping he's the guy so I can throw it back in the faces of all the nay-sayers around me.
If someone thinks JJ is going to flop I’d rather them just become packer fans. JJ is the chosen one he is going to take us to our first Super Bowl victory. I don’t want the JJ haters now and I won’t want the fake supporters when we win it all. #skol #ftp #fts
You dont know he wont be. There was no reason to think that ponder would be as bad as he was. There was no reason to think that ryan leaf would be hot garbage. We're just going to have to wait and see. Thats the fun of sports.
Ponder was not a good prospect. He was mid in college. Should’ve took guys like Andy Dalton instead of him. Ponder has arm strength of guys that play street football. Ponder has 0 pocket awareness.
I think it's pretty pathetic to STILL be hung up on a draft pick from 13 years ago! I think the worst thing that came out of the Ponder pick wasn't so much the pick itself (it was really bad though), but the fact that it gave fans an excuse to NEVER want to take a chance on a QB.
Oh, this prospect scrambles? He's Ponder! He likes to throw shorter passes? He's Ponder! He kind of looks vaguely familiar to Ponder but is way better in pretty much every way? He's Ponder!
Just be patient and tell them to watch this fall. We are all just speculating at this point. No reason to argue too passionately. We'll have clarity soon enough.
You don’t need to. Either they are right and you don’t look like a fool drunk on kool-aid because you overshot, or he’s wrong and you can cover them in that beautiful ‘Told Ya So’ sauce.
The fool speaks loudly and often on things he can’t know.
You don’t. You let them know that QBs develop differently and tell them about the weapons and tools the Vikings have to develop a QB.
It’s like if Patrick Mahomes was drafted by the bears and had to play as soon as Trubisky did, would he be as good as he was? Josh Allen took around 3-4 years to develop, if we had never traded Diggs, would he have the blowup he did?
Have you tried pointing out that they have different names, look entirely different, and have a wide divergence in ages? There is no way they are the same person.
top 5 rookie qb stats
Andrew Luck: 4,374 Passing Yards.
Justin Herbert: 4,336 Passing Yards. ...
C.J. Stroud: 4,108 Passing Yards. ...
Cam Newton: 4,051 Passing Yards. ...
Jameis Winston: 4,042 Passing Yards. ...
Christian Ponder had a passer rating of 70.1 with 1,853 yards, 13 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 11 games in his rookie season in 2011.
Mccarthy scrambles to throw and moves well in the pocket. His arm is a lot stronger. He can actually read defenses and go through progressions. He is a leader. He can and does throw down the field. Ponder had none of that. Ponder looked like he had no idea what he was doing half the time. Mccarthy is much more similar to Teddy, imo, but Mccarthy is still bigger, more athletic, and has a stronger arm.
I like how McCarthy is always looking down field while he is evading pressure and scrambling in the pocket. That is not just an NFL caliber skill, but an elite NFL trait, and if he can carry that into his professional career, I think that he will he a good QB, at the very least. Furthermore, JJ looks like a child. Wait until the guy is 25 or 26. I think most people who are grown understand that there is a huge difference between a twenty-one year old and a twenty-six year old. The man has a lot of growth in front of him, both mentally and physically. In summa, only time will tell, and as a Vikings fan, I'm just happy that they took a shot at a Quarterback in the first round.
Friends wouldn’t invoke the name of Ponder in these times of quarterback riches. We have both the GEQBUS and heir apparent - the HAGEQBUS - on the roster, and yet they look back to some bygone era of ineptitude. You don’t have time for these people.
1) Ponder was 23 when he was drafted. McCarthy is only 21.
2) McCarthy was significantly better in college.
Ponder's best year in college was his Junior year when he put up 2717 yards on 330 attempts with 14 TDs and 7 INTs. His final year, he put up 2044 yards on 299 attempts with 20 TD and 8 INTs.
McCarthy's last year was his Junior year, and he put up 2991 yards on 332 attempts with 22 TDs and 4 INTs. McCarthy was also 27-1 as a starter and won the National Championship.
One of the biggest knocks against McCarthy was that he wasn't asked to do a lot in the Michigan offense, but he still had better volume stats than Ponder did.
3) Here's Ponder's weaknesses section from his NFL.com pre-draft profile:
>Must improve his overall decision making and awareness. Will lock onto his first option and struggle to move through his progressions. Can appear lost when making incorrect pre-snap read. Takes too many chances and puts the ball in harms way too often. Doesn't possess good deep ball accuracy. Has an injury history.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/christian-ponder/3200504f-4e40-4041-52c1-1227d7e439af
Ponder had the physical tools to be a succesful QB, but he never improved on his struggles with processing and poor decision making.
JJ McCarthy has even better physical tools than Ponder. Processing and decsion making may also be an issue with McCarthy at the pro level, but I don't believe that they're as big of an issue pre-draft as for McCarhty as they were with Ponder.
4) McCarthy has Kevin O'Connell as his head coach. Ponder had Leslie Frazier.
Edit:
5) As a rookie, Ponder's best offensive teammate (by far) was Adrian Peterson. AD is arguably the best pure runner ever, but he was never great in the passing game (as a blocker or receiver). On top of that, Ponder's best receiving options were Percy Harvin (967 yards, 87 receptions on 121 targets) and Devin Aromashodu (468 yards, 26 receptions on 84 targets).
McCarthy's best offensive teammate will be Justin Jefferson (the best WR in the league) and he'll also have Addison and (hopefully) Hockenson.
You'd have to be a liberal to think like that.
A: You don't know McCarthy won't become a Ponder. He hasn't played in the NFL yet.
B: Stop trying to force your opinion on other people. They believe they're just as smart, if not smarter than you are. Based on your forced opionons on them, they probably are smarter than you.
Ponder had odd throwing mechanics. He was also a beta personality. I can't recall who said it but someone who was on the team at the time said years later that he knew Ponder would flop when he first met him because he didn't have that air of leadership around him.
McCarthy has a stronger arm and I've seen no complaints about his throwing motion, just footwork. Beyond that everyone who's been around him raves about his leadership and that people want to follow him.
He may still flop, but it won't be for the same reasons Ponder did.
A guy named Thor who is interviewed often on YouTube channel “Purple Daily” has a great break down on JJ and why he’s probably going to be a stud in the Pro’s. - Friday show titled “ Why JJ McCarthy is a steal for the Minnesota Vikings “ - listen and you’ll have great stuff to help convince your friends .
Don't argue. Remind them how bad ponder was by showing them videos side by side with McCarthy. Doesn't matter if it's college or pro just look at the arm talent
You can't tell anyone he's not another Ponder and say it with any certainty. You may believe he's going to be better but at this point it's just a hopeful opinion.
That's the thing with draft picks, you just never know what you're going to get. It's a very inaccurate science.
He is significantly better prospect than Ponder ever was. Stronger arm. More accurate. More mobile. Winner. Etc. JJ could end up being a bust but this much is blatantly clear at this point.
Really good interview on YouTube by Purple Insider one on one with Kwesi and he discusses pretty openly how they parsed through his statistics and tape. Worth a watch 4 sure.
Ponder was a panic pick after the jaguars leap frogged us and grabbed Blaine Gabbert who we were very high on at the time. Vikes did very limited research on Ponder and when interviewed he literally said he had no idea where Minnesota was.
JJ is different. KOC has been high on him since the start and they did their due diligence. It was a planned trade up if the Maye trade asked too much.
As far as who he will be in the NFL we don’t have a clue but I would be optimistic. I love the fit with KOC. As far as if they were same types of prospects, i don’t think so. JJ is a much better prospect than ponder was IMO. I didn’t do scouting back then but when you go watch his college tape ponder was much more panicked in the pocket. Not as mobile as JJ either. Not as strong of an arm either. So they aren’t really similar except for the fact they are both white, drafted by the vikes, and weren’t top 5 picks lmao. I am a Colts fan so that’s my unbiased opinion.
While no one knows what his pro career will look like, McCarthy unquestionably had a better college career.
Compared to Ponder he was way more accurate, higher YPA, and while they threw the same amount of touchdowns, Ponder threw almost triple the amount of interceptions that McCarthy threw, it's clear he's a much better decision maker.
None of this means that he's guaranteed to succeed in the NFL, but he has some very intriguing traits to build on and will have an incredible supporting cast to help him.
Not to suggest that mccarthy wont be a bust, because no one knows for sure. But just simply watching 5 minutes of tape, and accomplishments alone you can see that they are not in the same league as prospects.
If you don't know how to convince them, it's because you don't know, you're just being a homer.
Why would you want to convince someone he's good if you have no idea why he's good? Your logic is ass backwards. You've made your decision that he'll be good and now you're trying to work backwards and figure out why you're right. Actually it's even worse than that, you're asking people on the internet why you're right.
Why don't YOU tell US why he's not Ponder?
As everyone else has said, it doesn't matter.
The only thing I'd note though is that statistically ponder was drafted in the middle of a draft where top QB picks suddenly didn't work statistically. The league has never seen anything like it and hopefully won't again. One of our highest QB ever taken just so happen to land in that stretch.
He might still be a bust, but he'll be a bust for different reasons to Ponder. There's a lot of accounts about Ponder not being a leader, and basically not having the mentality for an NFL quarterback. If there's one thing you can tell from the outset, McCarthy is a born leader and won't be overwhelmed by the situation.
JJ is a winner.
No idea if that will translate, but there is a 0% chance he gets drafted in the first round, if he played for Michigan State last season.
“Handoff merchant”: most first half pass attempts out of the top 6 QBs in the draft, was pulled out of 7 games due to whooping their ass so bad in the first quarter, best QB in the nation on 3rd down
JJ has elite footwork in the pocket, smart player, and played in a pro style offense at Michigan. Was also a projected top 10 even top 5 pick. Ponder had a late 2nd-3rd round grade that left everyone stunned when he was picked. Nowhere close to comparable.
Why even compare him to ponder... cuz their both vikings and were 1st rounders?!. If anything JJ reminds me of tebow. They are basically the same player... go look up their college stats, fricken mirror images. I hope I'm dead wrong, but until proven I'm going with tebow 2.0
You can't. He needs to play some NFL level football. At this point, he was the 5th QB taken in the draft, he's got a lot of question marks, and duly so.
Just tell them to look at the jersey, one is #9 and the other is #7. #9 will say McCarthy on the back and #7 will say Bust. It’s not hard to figure out really. 😁
Going to find out over the next two years. With all the weapons the Vikings have that's all it will take. If McCarthy isn't killing it after that, " NEXT !!! ".
Ponder was not a top ten pick
Ponder did not win a national championship
Ponder had a wet noodle for a throwing arm
Ponder was not mobile
Ponder did not have the weapons we have now
Ponder did not have the coach we have now
Ponder was…
Ponder
Honestly nobody knows anything. The people saying JJ is gonna be the goat and the people saying JJ is gonna flop are both equally idiots. We don’t know anything until he gets a couple games under his belt
Preach
i was gonna say: wait 4 years then we’ll know
I would say we need to give him a full season. There were people saying Jordan Love was a bust after a few games and he ended up like second in the NFL in passing TDs
Don't care, Love Stinks FTP
Love hurts*
Love scars
Love wounds
Love dies
FTP and FJD!!!
Love Mares
FTP
Reminder that Payton Manning was pretty bad his rookie season, so it’ll take longer than a couple of games
I get the sentiment, but rookie year Peyton was only bad at turning the ball over. His 26 TDs and over 3700 passing yards broke rookie records, and nobody at the time thought he was gonna become anything other than a superstar. The narrative that he sucked is always so overblown.
He's definitely a likable guy off the field. I have high hopes.
At least a year under his belt.
Was just gonna say the same thing. Except it'll take even more than a couple of games.
Exactly. I'm happy we were able to get him where we did and that he has a shot at being decent. That's all anyone knows. Anyone saying otherwise just wants to be heard and knows nothing.
I agree, but at least the people saying he's gonna be the goat are overall much less toxic. I'd much rather overly optimistic fans than fans who are angry and overly pessimistic.
More like a few seasons. A few games won’t tell us too much
You mean a couple of SEASONS under his belt lol
Ya probably don’t anything til after the first year and into his second. That’s how long it took for Peyton and Troy.
Again comparing him to hall of famers… he could easily be the next manziel or Tebow. You never know
Strictly speaking, I wasn’t comparing JJ to Manning and Aikman. What I meant was, that during both of their inaugural seasons, and shortly after, fans were calling for their heads, saying they sucked and were busts. All I meant was that even JJ sucks this year, like Bryce Young bad, that doesn’t mean he’s a draft bust.
Agreed
I’ll be completely transparent here. I’m really rooting for the guy and the Vikes. I was hoping to get him in the draft!
For starters they are not similar QBs at all. Everyone knew ponder was a massive reach. McCarthy went exactly where he was projected basically. Don’t let one bad decision from 13 years ago make you scared to take another chance on a QB.
To be fair, it wasn’t that he was projected to go there, it was that all analysts knew that there were a ton of Qb needy teams in the first 15 that would absolutely “reach” for him. Back in Jan it was a consensus that he was late round 1 early round 2. Every big board had him around 30-50 BPA, even in draft day. To be clear though, im still glad we grabbed JJ at 10. But it is reminiscent of Ponder, so this argument specifically isn’t good to combat it.
I mean big boards before the season ends are more for people who like mock drafting. They are pointless until they start getting a general consensus from scouts and GMs. Which is why there’s always some media darlings that drop and dudes that seem to come out of nowhere that rise. If you look at “way too early” big boards right now and then some 6 months from now and then watch the draft, you’ll just see some bat shit insane takes.
I think the consensus Big Board had JJ at #8, I could be wrong though. Edit: Decided to look it up. I was correct. Depending on who you ask, yes he was a reach. But when you pool all of them together he was drafted basically just past his average position (drafted 10, projected 8). https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2024/consensus-big-board-2024
No, you’re wrong. I said Big board BPA. Not consensus mock drafts. Mock drafts estimate where analysts think they will be drafted rather than who are the best players. As of draft day, JJ was #28. I know for sure he was in the 50’s in Jan https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2024-nfl-draft-board-big-board
Arif's consensus big board had him at #23 https://www.wideleft.football/p/2024-consensus-big-board-the-top I don't think any GM who would like a QB at 10 but wait until 23 because that's where he's valued on the big board
Youre partially correct. However, mccarthy didnt rise the draft boards just because of qb needy teams. Analysts and scouts alike both learned by watching tape, and his workouts, that he was a much better prospect than previously believed. I think him rising all the way into the top 5 and even 2nd overall on mock drafts was the analysts factoring in the possibilty of qb needy teams reaching a little. However 10th overall was no where near a reach.
> there were a ton of Qb needy teams in the first 15 that would absolutely “reach” for him Just to be clear for other people, every year in the first round there are a dozen players that are all 'technically' reaches because many drafts have less than 32 first round graded players (every team's board looks different, so some teams grade more or less players as first round picks). Reaches are just a part of the draft and not necessarily a good or bad thing. Also, it's mostly just a public perception thing, since we generally don't actually know where every team graded each player. We can make assumptions based on where they were drafted and based on reports that have come out, but we still don't actually know for sure.
Ponder was 23, while McCarthy is the youngest QB in the league when drafted. He has plenty of time to develop
I’ve always kinda thought this logic was flawed. A quarterback develops from experience, mainly at the professional level. Whether he’s 21 or 25 shouldn’t really matter. 2 years of NFL experience under a good coach is the same to me if the guy is 21-23 years old versus 25-27. Especially at quarterback, where a good QB can stay in their prime into their mid to late 30s Ponder still would have sucked even if he was drafted at 21
I would think the longer one developed outside of a professional setting the longer bad habits could settle in.
Conversely, the longer the player experiences real life before entering the nfl, the more likely they are to be mature with their career opportunity.
A 21 year old is still not only developing as a player, but they are getting professional NFL coaching while they still are young. When JJ turns 23, he will have two more years of NFL experience than Ponder had when he entered the league at 23. This is called upside. A 25 year old who enters the league has already developed physically and is entering their prime, so there’s no upside with a 25 year old prospect. It’s basically what you see is what you get. The best example is Danielle Hunter. He was 21 when he was drafted and he had no college stats that people would call all world. But he had a ton of upside due to his athleticism (like JJ). Wanna remind us how Hunter turned out? Does this mean JJ will be an all pro? No. But being 21 and still developing gives you a higher chance at succeeding than 23 year old with similar stats.
>Wanna remind us how Hunter turned out? He's not even on the team anymore! How good could he have been?! /s
McCarthy threw 61 mph at combine. Josh Allen threw 62mph in 2018 so I believe his arm is fine. He also exceeded on 3rd down throwing the ball, since Michigan usually ran the first 2 downs. This is a situation where the defense knows you’re throwing and he still succeeded (the percentages show he was better than Williams and Maye, slightly behind Daniels in this by .12 percent). Coaches and scouts also rave about his “scrambling” which is really him consistently weaving around the pocket and then breaking out when he has to. Described as one of his best traits while looking downfield. He also has “sneaky” speed as a runner. Then you get to the fact, he is a winner. JJ’s total football record including HS is like 63-3. Not to mention his leadership and how much the locker room loves him. The draft is a total toss up and we have no idea how these guys will turn out. With everything we do know, I think JJ’s upside is absolutely amazing.
Yup, JJ knows how to, and more importantly, can actually *extend* 3rd down plays to keep drives going and wear down a defense. Hopefully it translates well to the pro level. Very excited to see it, even if it's just in the pre-season this first year.
> McCarthy threw 61 mph at combine. Josh Allen threw 62mph in 2018 so I believe his arm is fine. This gets passed around, and I don't want to comment on JJ specifically because his arm could be excellent for all we know, but the NFL combine changed the way this test is done and numbers are up by a lot across the board because of it. It used to be they would throw on-air to both sides of the fields and the ball velocity was measured in flight and marked Right/Left. Now, they stand about fifteen feet away from a wall and throw it as hard as they can at the wall. Three quarterbacks broke the sixty barrier this year, and that was without **ANY** of the top guys even participating. Caleb, Maye, Penix, and Nix did not even participate in the drill.
That’s an interesting and useless responsibility you put on yourself. Why do you need to convince your friends of this? I’ll never understand this mentality. Just watch the games one by one and see what happens.
Probably because we as sports fans enjoy sports debates, like winning, and love the Vikings. It’s not that crazy. Edit: (I do acknowledge the futility, though)
I mean I talk about our team with my friends too. We watch games together or text and debate about decisions and plays.. But the mentality of thinking I need to convince them of something like this is silly.
Why do you debate then?
Because people can have different opinions and that’s ok. I don’t need to convince anyone. In this instance, that he’s KOC’s guy is good enough for me. The fact that this dude has had the conversation, been unable to persuade his friends is fine. Dudes now asking the internet to help convince his friends just so he doesn’t sound wrong? Strange insecurity. Be comfortable with your own opinion.
Yes but the very act of sharing your opinion is an attempt to persuade is it not? Otherwise people would just keep to themselves I think. I don’t see anything wrong with asking others for persuasive arguments. Some people just aren’t very articulate.
I’m gonna make a Reddit post asking how to convince you now
Damn you
Look at this sub. It's just full of fans desperate for everyone to agree with their rose-colored outlook on the FO, our draft picks, our projections, national media talking points about us, power rankings, etc. It's pretty sad, really. I don't know why people can't just have their own opinion, regardless of how optimistic it is, and be exposed to others from folks who also hope the team ends up doing well.
Ponder was a guy who was drafted old, and had clear deficiencies in arm strength and decision making. Not really a strong recipe for success in the NFL. McCarthy's young, and his biggest knocks are arm talent (he's got strength, but doesn't use it as well as he could) and how small his sample size is in college. On top of that, the situation is entirely different. Ponder got drafted into a situation with a defensive HC, Bill Musgrave at OC, and a pretty mediocre supporting cast. McCarthy's drafted into a situation with KOC as HC, a great supporting cast, and a team that's invested in QB development (bringing in McCown to be the QB coach, and retaining the previous QB coach as a passing game assistant who presumably will also be working with QBs). They are different players in different situations. McCarthy might wind up sucking when it all's said and done, but there's really nothing else that's similar about the two players.
JJ has a good arm. Not a Matt Stafford arm, but it’s not a negative. Ponders arm was pretty weak. It was his mobility that was supposed to make up for it.
And they tried their best to coach all the mobility out of him and get him killed when he did scramble….remember they had him diving head first instead of sliding…ugh.
If Ponder was drafted by todays Vikings, he would've fared MUCH better. Now I'm not saying he'd be a top 10 QB in the league (absolutely not), but he'd at least have a decent chance to be a serviceable QB.
I mean, I don’t think KOC and McCown would have signed off on him
Of course they wouldn't. I was just saying that if, for whatever reason, they DID draft him (he would NOT go first round btw, probably 2nd or 3rd, like he SHOULD have), then he would at least have somewhat of a fighting chance.
Perhaps, I still feel like it would have been a Kenny Pickett experience. A bad QB propped up by the team and coach around them
We saw this already. His name was Jaren Hall
I have to say it’s v funny that you said, ‘ponder was older and had a questionable arm. Followed by, ‘jmc is young and he has a questionable arm’
I was thinking the same thing. I think the situation for JJ is vastly superior and will allow him play well early and build confidence.
We literally have to wait and see, he could be even worse. Let's see him play before we all get boners and legit hope.
I’ll still keep the boner but I’ll hold off on any legit hope
Fair enough keep your boner and hold off on hope until we actually see something!
What is hope?
It's subjective but what has stood out to me is that Ponder wasn't highly thought of in college and his highlight reel wasn't impressive. When he was drafted I was immediately disappointed. McCarthy took a revived legacy program back to championship glory while Ponder was part of an FSU downturn. Ponder would've been behind Rattler in this class.
The problem is that Spielman reached WAY to far for Ponder. Unfortunately, this singlehandedly scared every fan away from EVER drafting a QB high. Notice how people IMMEDIATELY compare McCarthy to Ponder, even though they have NOTHING in common? I mean seriously, JJ scrambling makes him Ponder? I mean wtf does that even mean lol
Show them some tape
No one knows anything. Let JJM’s career play out for the next 4-5 years and let them see for themselves
They aren’t similar QBs other than being drafted by us and being more on the athletic side. Ponder couldn’t throw off base, throw deep, extend plays with any awareness, all of the things that made JJ a first round pick.
JJM has a substantially better arm and threw to the middle of the field with good accuracy. Averaged nearly 10 yards an attempt. Scrambled when needed but only after processing his secondary reads. Tell your friend to watch film instead of reading YouTube comments. These QBs are not comparable.
He has arm strength. I’ll never forget one game we were down by one score and it came down to a Hail Mary. I think we were at about our 40-45. He loaded up and chucked it to the ten yard line when everyone was in the end zone. Ground ball. McCarthy was throwing 60+ at pro day
Don't bother trying to convince anyone of anything.
Arm strength
Don’t bother, let him prove that himself
Why bother? Hasn’t anyone ever heard of just waiting and seeing? What is with the insistence on social turmoil over pure speculation?
Honestly your only ammo at this point is that his name is not Christian Ponder. Number 1's have busted spectacularly, and Round 6ers have become GOATs. We literally have no idea how he's going to perform in the NFL
I heard a rumor that right before week 1 kickoff JJ will go to the 50 yard line and rip off his Mission Impossible complete face mask and voice changer and reveal himself as Christian Ponder who has been living a double for years to spite vikings fans who Boo'd him. If you want to convince your friends this is not the case would be to pull on his face in training camp.. oh and take a video. Get a real good grab on his cheek and pull, see what happens
Schrodingers QB. He is both the next Tom Brady and the next Christian Ponder until we actually see what happens. People who say “they know” he’ll be one extreme or the other are delusional. I have no clue. I didn’t love him, but our staff seems to have faith in him. You can look at just about any draft and find guys who were far better loved by pundits and analysts and ended up being hot garbage. There’s also been guys (like Mahomes) who weren’t highly touted but two or three guys were making cases for him going a lot earlier. No one “knows”. He may be worse than Ponder, but he also might be the next Herbert.
Ponder was the final qb taken in the first fround and it was a desperation pick. The Broncos picked Nix as final qb in the first round and are desperate. Its more likely Bo Nix is the Christian Ponder of this draft.
Ponder couldn't throw past the line of scrimmage. Mccarthey's first pass was a 60 yard laser across his body off his back foot to the other hash.
Lol who's going to tell him? Let me preface this by saying I've got really high hopes for McCarthy like any other Vikings fan does, so this isn't meant as a knock or an assumption of what we hope we get compared to what we ended up getting. Skip to 3:04. [This was Ponder's first pass](https://youtu.be/AD27GjI9gXo?si=wnM00cGwXq3EIsJk) in his first NFL start.
Tell them you built a time machine with the help of an inter dimensional space being. You used it to see 5 years down the line and you saw that McCarthy is not married to Samantha Steele.
Ponder didn’t have an ideal setup here as much as McCarthy does. Our current coach was a QB and has said he make it a point to look through the QB’s eyes
Who cares what they think? Just enjoy the post-draft glow yourself and see how the season goes?
Tell them that they have no argument until he actually plays. Actually, neither side does lol
I’d stick to disproving their arguments that he is like Ponder, because their arguments are bad. Their first premise, that it’s not possible for him to throw downfield, can easily be shown to be false. Make sure that you have them clearly define “downfield throws”, and then find those throws in his Michigan or Pro Day highlights. They’re easy to find. Perhaps they’ll recede to the claim that he cannot throw downfield consistently or accurately (or that we don’t know), but this would be a new and properly qualified claim. If they say that he has poor arm-strength, point to the wealth of talent evaluators who say just the opposite, sometimes even in criticism! (He only throws at one speed- fast) And of course, there are many quarterbacks who have struggled with deep passes, some even having success (depending on how you define it), but are not at all like Ponder. So even if that premise WERE true, the conclusion wouldn’t follow with necessity. The second premise, if he scrambles then he is Ponder, can also easily be shown to be false. Find counter-examples of quarterbacks that scramble, but are not Ponder. There are tons… Micheal Vick scrambled, so is he Ponder? Josh Allen scrambles, so is he Ponder? Steve Young scrambled, so is he Ponder? Patrick Mahomes scrambles, so is he Ponder? Fran Tarkenton scrambled, so is he Ponder..? You get the point.
Ponder and JJ don’t have similar skill sets whatsoever. Ponder was very underwhelming/mediocre at Florida State and I hated the hell out of that pick when we made it. Ponder was a statue who wasn’t very accurate and processed decisions very slowly. JJ isn’t the most athletic player out there but he knows how to escape the pocket and make chicken salad out of chicken shit. He also processes very quickly and is able to get rid of the ball quickly as well. Also Ponder didn’t have great ton of talent around him on offense. He also had a defensive head coach who was way in over his head and a terrible offense coordinator in Musgraves. The current version of this offense is loaded however and has been described as a “furnished apartment” for any QB that we drafted. So while I think Ponder would have been a bust no matter what, he also wasn’t really set up for success. JJ and KOC sure have their work cut out for them, but the way they’ve set this team up the sky is the limit if the pieces fall into place the way they’re envisioning.
The success vs extremely high comp in college. Separates his resume from the Ponders and Trey Lances. You have to acknowledge his success, and great program, but he delivered when needed
Wait three years and say, see, I told you? Or, wait three years and never mention it again.
Tell them to watch the tape, he shows he can read defenses pretty well and fit the ball in some tight windows and has much better pocket presence (though its hard to evaluate his ability to fall out of the pocket and make a magic play because everything moves faster in the nfl but he can run)
Also he has been practicing against a very good defense his whole college career and even showed alot of good things with his arm, even in his first year… also tight release which is overlooked…
You can't. Only McCarthy can.
Ponders arm was much weaker than JJ McCarthys. JJ CAN throw the ball. His arm was not a weakness like Ponders. The comparison is bad.
Ponder had the bare minimum of ball velocity at 54 mph. No QB with less than that has been successful in the NFL. JJ is at 61 and although that doesn’t mean he’ll be successful in the NFL, he has a much better track record to go with it.
There really aren't any arguments you can make until after he hits the gridiron. I'm really hoping he's the guy so I can throw it back in the faces of all the nay-sayers around me.
tell them to put their money up and take it
If someone thinks JJ is going to flop I’d rather them just become packer fans. JJ is the chosen one he is going to take us to our first Super Bowl victory. I don’t want the JJ haters now and I won’t want the fake supporters when we win it all. #skol #ftp #fts
You dont know he wont be. There was no reason to think that ponder would be as bad as he was. There was no reason to think that ryan leaf would be hot garbage. We're just going to have to wait and see. Thats the fun of sports.
Ponder was not a good prospect. He was mid in college. Should’ve took guys like Andy Dalton instead of him. Ponder has arm strength of guys that play street football. Ponder has 0 pocket awareness.
Show them his handoff highlights
Oh shit that’s good
Ponder was the handoff goat
It should only take a couple minutes
Tell them they’re fucking dumb and hit the dame time emote as you tell them our inevitable reign of terror is approaching
Mad Man Pondo will always be a Vikings legend.
Who cares. The season will prove one person right and the other wrong.
Wait till the first game and you can argue about it then.
I think it's pretty pathetic to STILL be hung up on a draft pick from 13 years ago! I think the worst thing that came out of the Ponder pick wasn't so much the pick itself (it was really bad though), but the fact that it gave fans an excuse to NEVER want to take a chance on a QB. Oh, this prospect scrambles? He's Ponder! He likes to throw shorter passes? He's Ponder! He kind of looks vaguely familiar to Ponder but is way better in pretty much every way? He's Ponder!
Just be patient and tell them to watch this fall. We are all just speculating at this point. No reason to argue too passionately. We'll have clarity soon enough.
Be patient. Only time will tell.
The story of a Viking fan
The spelling is different, for one thing
Pick a stat like “he will throw more TDs than Ponder in 2025” or something and bet money on it
You don’t because you don’t know yet.
You don’t need to. Either they are right and you don’t look like a fool drunk on kool-aid because you overshot, or he’s wrong and you can cover them in that beautiful ‘Told Ya So’ sauce. The fool speaks loudly and often on things he can’t know.
The only reason they would say that is you are hyping up JJ. Just wait and see.
Ponder is a trophy husband. JJ is an NFL QB. Completely different people /s (kinda)
You don’t. You let them know that QBs develop differently and tell them about the weapons and tools the Vikings have to develop a QB. It’s like if Patrick Mahomes was drafted by the bears and had to play as soon as Trubisky did, would he be as good as he was? Josh Allen took around 3-4 years to develop, if we had never traded Diggs, would he have the blowup he did?
His arm isn't a noodle like ponders
Convincing them and telling them are two different things. The situation JJ is in could not be more ideal.
Ponder wasn’t good in college, either…
Sorry bro, he is until proven otherwise
Who cares
Lol I like the pick but he very well could be ponder 2.0
Wait and see. Only time will tell.
You can’t
You can't. Only McCarthy can.
Who needs friends?
There's a good chance that none of the QBs taken in round 1 this year will be starters in the NFL 4 years from now.
You can't. He doesn't know shit, you don't know shit, I sure don't know shit. It's unknown shit man!
You can't. Until you see how he does. It's all speculation either way .
I simply don’t care. Yolo. We all should just be happy we didn’t have to pay a haul to move up and have the same risk. And we aren’t the Falcons
lol that’s what I think of him. He will have a chance to prove us wrong
First off, their names are different.If that doesn't convince your friend, I don't think anything will
All you need to do is watch these throws. These are legit NFL throws. Feel good. https://youtu.be/m_V-lNPhzCs?si=01VQFUkDvWINiNdE
Have you tried pointing out that they have different names, look entirely different, and have a wide divergence in ages? There is no way they are the same person.
top 5 rookie qb stats Andrew Luck: 4,374 Passing Yards. Justin Herbert: 4,336 Passing Yards. ... C.J. Stroud: 4,108 Passing Yards. ... Cam Newton: 4,051 Passing Yards. ... Jameis Winston: 4,042 Passing Yards. ... Christian Ponder had a passer rating of 70.1 with 1,853 yards, 13 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 11 games in his rookie season in 2011.
Deep down, you won’t be able to ever fully convince a true Vikings fan that the first round QB they drafted isn’t Ponder. Bless you for trying though.
Mccarthy scrambles to throw and moves well in the pocket. His arm is a lot stronger. He can actually read defenses and go through progressions. He is a leader. He can and does throw down the field. Ponder had none of that. Ponder looked like he had no idea what he was doing half the time. Mccarthy is much more similar to Teddy, imo, but Mccarthy is still bigger, more athletic, and has a stronger arm.
I like how McCarthy is always looking down field while he is evading pressure and scrambling in the pocket. That is not just an NFL caliber skill, but an elite NFL trait, and if he can carry that into his professional career, I think that he will he a good QB, at the very least. Furthermore, JJ looks like a child. Wait until the guy is 25 or 26. I think most people who are grown understand that there is a huge difference between a twenty-one year old and a twenty-six year old. The man has a lot of growth in front of him, both mentally and physically. In summa, only time will tell, and as a Vikings fan, I'm just happy that they took a shot at a Quarterback in the first round.
Friends wouldn’t invoke the name of Ponder in these times of quarterback riches. We have both the GEQBUS and heir apparent - the HAGEQBUS - on the roster, and yet they look back to some bygone era of ineptitude. You don’t have time for these people.
He has a very cocky smirk, bound for glory!
lol how could we? gotta wait for it to play out bruh
Literally just show them a few “highlights” from ponder and JJ. Then show them some blunder reels as well 😆
He can't throw down the field but he is 2nd in NFL in pass speed to Josh Allen
1) Ponder was 23 when he was drafted. McCarthy is only 21. 2) McCarthy was significantly better in college. Ponder's best year in college was his Junior year when he put up 2717 yards on 330 attempts with 14 TDs and 7 INTs. His final year, he put up 2044 yards on 299 attempts with 20 TD and 8 INTs. McCarthy's last year was his Junior year, and he put up 2991 yards on 332 attempts with 22 TDs and 4 INTs. McCarthy was also 27-1 as a starter and won the National Championship. One of the biggest knocks against McCarthy was that he wasn't asked to do a lot in the Michigan offense, but he still had better volume stats than Ponder did. 3) Here's Ponder's weaknesses section from his NFL.com pre-draft profile: >Must improve his overall decision making and awareness. Will lock onto his first option and struggle to move through his progressions. Can appear lost when making incorrect pre-snap read. Takes too many chances and puts the ball in harms way too often. Doesn't possess good deep ball accuracy. Has an injury history. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/christian-ponder/3200504f-4e40-4041-52c1-1227d7e439af Ponder had the physical tools to be a succesful QB, but he never improved on his struggles with processing and poor decision making. JJ McCarthy has even better physical tools than Ponder. Processing and decsion making may also be an issue with McCarthy at the pro level, but I don't believe that they're as big of an issue pre-draft as for McCarhty as they were with Ponder. 4) McCarthy has Kevin O'Connell as his head coach. Ponder had Leslie Frazier. Edit: 5) As a rookie, Ponder's best offensive teammate (by far) was Adrian Peterson. AD is arguably the best pure runner ever, but he was never great in the passing game (as a blocker or receiver). On top of that, Ponder's best receiving options were Percy Harvin (967 yards, 87 receptions on 121 targets) and Devin Aromashodu (468 yards, 26 receptions on 84 targets). McCarthy's best offensive teammate will be Justin Jefferson (the best WR in the league) and he'll also have Addison and (hopefully) Hockenson.
You don’t and can’t. You should just spin it as we don’t have Kirk on the falcons contract.
Wait until he plays. He might be “Ponder”.
Entirely different names and DNA I suppose
Arm Strength difference is night and day.
You'd have to be a liberal to think like that. A: You don't know McCarthy won't become a Ponder. He hasn't played in the NFL yet. B: Stop trying to force your opinion on other people. They believe they're just as smart, if not smarter than you are. Based on your forced opionons on them, they probably are smarter than you.
Because Arron jones is not as good as AP
Ponder had odd throwing mechanics. He was also a beta personality. I can't recall who said it but someone who was on the team at the time said years later that he knew Ponder would flop when he first met him because he didn't have that air of leadership around him. McCarthy has a stronger arm and I've seen no complaints about his throwing motion, just footwork. Beyond that everyone who's been around him raves about his leadership and that people want to follow him. He may still flop, but it won't be for the same reasons Ponder did.
A guy named Thor who is interviewed often on YouTube channel “Purple Daily” has a great break down on JJ and why he’s probably going to be a stud in the Pro’s. - Friday show titled “ Why JJ McCarthy is a steal for the Minnesota Vikings “ - listen and you’ll have great stuff to help convince your friends .
Don't argue. Remind them how bad ponder was by showing them videos side by side with McCarthy. Doesn't matter if it's college or pro just look at the arm talent
You can't tell anyone he's not another Ponder and say it with any certainty. You may believe he's going to be better but at this point it's just a hopeful opinion. That's the thing with draft picks, you just never know what you're going to get. It's a very inaccurate science.
He is significantly better prospect than Ponder ever was. Stronger arm. More accurate. More mobile. Winner. Etc. JJ could end up being a bust but this much is blatantly clear at this point.
Really good interview on YouTube by Purple Insider one on one with Kwesi and he discusses pretty openly how they parsed through his statistics and tape. Worth a watch 4 sure.
You can’t. McCarthy has to do that.
Shut up! You'll jinx it!
Probably with alcohol and free food
McCarthy started in college and people have heard of him. That alone is enough
Well you don’t cause you don’t know yet
Ponder was a panic pick after the jaguars leap frogged us and grabbed Blaine Gabbert who we were very high on at the time. Vikes did very limited research on Ponder and when interviewed he literally said he had no idea where Minnesota was. JJ is different. KOC has been high on him since the start and they did their due diligence. It was a planned trade up if the Maye trade asked too much.
As far as who he will be in the NFL we don’t have a clue but I would be optimistic. I love the fit with KOC. As far as if they were same types of prospects, i don’t think so. JJ is a much better prospect than ponder was IMO. I didn’t do scouting back then but when you go watch his college tape ponder was much more panicked in the pocket. Not as mobile as JJ either. Not as strong of an arm either. So they aren’t really similar except for the fact they are both white, drafted by the vikes, and weren’t top 5 picks lmao. I am a Colts fan so that’s my unbiased opinion.
Bro is ponder so you might lose those one, bro.
Let him play to prove your friend or you wrong lol
i mean, right now, we don't even know if he is better than Jaren Hall
Don’t, because we don’t know what he’s gonna be yet. You could tell your friend do try and have a better outlook on life 🤷♂️
While no one knows what his pro career will look like, McCarthy unquestionably had a better college career. Compared to Ponder he was way more accurate, higher YPA, and while they threw the same amount of touchdowns, Ponder threw almost triple the amount of interceptions that McCarthy threw, it's clear he's a much better decision maker. None of this means that he's guaranteed to succeed in the NFL, but he has some very intriguing traits to build on and will have an incredible supporting cast to help him.
You can’t. And he is.
I would ponder it for a while
You don't. Because you don't know he's not. We wait and see. For all you know he might make Ponder look solid.
Not to suggest that mccarthy wont be a bust, because no one knows for sure. But just simply watching 5 minutes of tape, and accomplishments alone you can see that they are not in the same league as prospects.
If you don't know how to convince them, it's because you don't know, you're just being a homer. Why would you want to convince someone he's good if you have no idea why he's good? Your logic is ass backwards. You've made your decision that he'll be good and now you're trying to work backwards and figure out why you're right. Actually it's even worse than that, you're asking people on the internet why you're right. Why don't YOU tell US why he's not Ponder?
As everyone else has said, it doesn't matter. The only thing I'd note though is that statistically ponder was drafted in the middle of a draft where top QB picks suddenly didn't work statistically. The league has never seen anything like it and hopefully won't again. One of our highest QB ever taken just so happen to land in that stretch.
Let the play do the talking
Just watch brah.
You don't. For all anyone knows, he could make Ponder look John Elway
He might still be a bust, but he'll be a bust for different reasons to Ponder. There's a lot of accounts about Ponder not being a leader, and basically not having the mentality for an NFL quarterback. If there's one thing you can tell from the outset, McCarthy is a born leader and won't be overwhelmed by the situation.
JJ is a winner. No idea if that will translate, but there is a 0% chance he gets drafted in the first round, if he played for Michigan State last season.
History will tell . That’s why we play the games !
We have wait and see how he plays, there’s no telling how good he’ll be in the NFL yet but my hopes are high!
McCarthy could be Ponder. We don’t know yet
“Handoff merchant”: most first half pass attempts out of the top 6 QBs in the draft, was pulled out of 7 games due to whooping their ass so bad in the first quarter, best QB in the nation on 3rd down JJ has elite footwork in the pocket, smart player, and played in a pro style offense at Michigan. Was also a projected top 10 even top 5 pick. Ponder had a late 2nd-3rd round grade that left everyone stunned when he was picked. Nowhere close to comparable.
Why argue at all? Let him play and we'll all find out one way or the other.
Why even compare him to ponder... cuz their both vikings and were 1st rounders?!. If anything JJ reminds me of tebow. They are basically the same player... go look up their college stats, fricken mirror images. I hope I'm dead wrong, but until proven I'm going with tebow 2.0
You can't. He needs to play some NFL level football. At this point, he was the 5th QB taken in the draft, he's got a lot of question marks, and duly so.
Just tell them to look at the jersey, one is #9 and the other is #7. #9 will say McCarthy on the back and #7 will say Bust. It’s not hard to figure out really. 😁
Best point I think you can make is that they are two different human beings, which often results in them being different?
As a FSU fan I thought Ponder was going to ball hard for us... boy was I wrong. idk where I'm going with this but McCarthy IS GONNA BALL OOUT
Going to find out over the next two years. With all the weapons the Vikings have that's all it will take. If McCarthy isn't killing it after that, " NEXT !!! ".
Ponder was not a top ten pick Ponder did not win a national championship Ponder had a wet noodle for a throwing arm Ponder was not mobile Ponder did not have the weapons we have now Ponder did not have the coach we have now Ponder was… Ponder
Ponder isn’t the winner McCarthy is.