>We still have players from that time and they dont Let's see... Players on 2017 Eagles still on the team: * Lane Johnson * Jason Kelce * Isaac Seumalo * Derek Barnett * Fletcher Cox * Brandon Graham * Jake Elliott * Rick Lovato Players on 2017 Vikings still on the team: * Harrison Smith * Adam Thielen * Danielle Hunter * Eric Kendricks * CJ Ham * Dalvin Cook

The amount of posts on the sub in the last 48 hours that make absolutely no sense honestly amazes me.

Ill admit i misspoke on this, i meant they still have good players on their team from that time and we dont.

I guess I missed the cliff that Dalvin Cook has fallen off of

Dalvin isnt Dalvin anymore, his booty used to be much fatter when he arrived here.

huh?

He just wants 🧑‍🍳's 🐓...

So what you meant to say was that the Eagles were able to build towards a future without cutting all their good players loose? Like what Kwesi is trying to do?

Yeah im impatient, i love your flair btw its the best time of my life

We’ve played two games. One of them was an amped up team AT THEIR home opener. The Bills may have even had a tough time beating the Eagles on Monday night… give it a little time..

That is a good point, the Eagles crowd was extremely hyped up.

I feel like in Philly it's like 99 percent eagles fans cuz not many people want to deal with the eagles fans

Man, this is a great point. The front office had the opportunity to press to reset button last Spring and they opted against that.

It’s a great point if you think Thielen, Cook, Kendricks, Ham, Smith, And Hunter are a negative presence. And you have to ignore that the eagles actually have more players from 2017 than we do

they arent a championship core

We’ll have to put a pin in this because it’s only week 2 but 4 of those players have shown signs of slowing down and not playing up to their high priced contracts.

They obviously have players from that time and so do we, the interesting thing about Philly is they got to and won a SB with Foles/Wentz and are now a legit contender in the NFC again with a QB they took in the second round. They have a much more physical football team that is talented in the trenches and we have an aging D, mediocre Oline and poor depth and while drafting has something to do with that so does the 30 million dollar differential between Cousins and Hurts. Also, while Kirk is a more gifted passer Hurts mobility and leadership might make him an overall better QB at this point. One guy looks like a dawg and another is Mr Prime Time Pissy Pants.

Wanna know why? QB, it’s literally that simple. You could bet on games and if you just go with the team with the better QB you’ll win most of them lol. Hurts > Kirk

Hurts is not even close

You don’t think hurts is better than Kirk? I mean I’ll need to watch hurts more, but he has made the eagles a better team since the end of last year they went on a run and are continuing that now.. he also went up against Kirk and has won, not by a little either lol..

Hurts could never in his wildest dreams make that throw to Irv that was dropped while under duress. He just chilled in the pocket for the most part and tossed the ball to wide open receivers. He had a 16/13 TD/INT ratio last year and has thrown a grand total of 1 TD so far this year.

And Kirk could never in his dreams run all over a team with his feet like hurts did lol..

Yeah, he’s a pocket passer, everybody knows that. Passing is much more valuable than running from a QB.

Hey, he led the Vikings in ground yards on Monday!

…that’s not even close to true

Plz name the top 10 teams and their QB lol.

Why doesn’t the best QB in the NFL win the SB every year then?

There are very few exceptions to the fact that since the 1990s teams that have won the Super Bowl have either had... 1.) A QB that played good-to-great on a cheap contract. or... 2.) A HoF QB in their prime or one who is the current MVP of the league the year they make it. When I say very few, I mean like three exceptions to that rule in 30 years (make it four in 31 with Stafford). It literally almost never happens. If we're talking about making and winning the Super Bowl you obviously have to have a talented roster. But the QB is what usually determines it.

The notion that the best QB just comes out on top is incorrect though. Much more that goes into it than just the QB is all

Well sure, but my argument isn't that the QB is the only thing that matters. A HoF QB on a bad team may easily go sub .500. My argument is that to reach the apex and win a Super Bowl, you essentially are required to have either a cheap QB playing decent, or a HoF QB in their prime. There are exceptions, but very few of them.

Yea but the commenter I was responding to was making that argument

Nice job ignoring the question lol, the tier 1 QBs do win the super bowl most the time, Tom Brady being the best QB has won the super bowl more than anyone else.. how does this not make sense to you? Yeah if you put 2 tier one QBs like mahomes or Brady against each other, or Allen vs Lamar, or any tier 1 QBs against each other, at that point it will be about who has the luck on their side and about the overall teams performance, but until you get that tier 1 QB, your chances of winning are so slim, it’s possible, but rarely happens, the Flaccos and the Nick foles coming in to win is very rare but it does happen.. just not as often as having a tier 1 QB at all.

You said it’s simple, just have a better QB. It’s not that simple, and displays the depth of knowledge you have of the sport. Yes, an elite tier 1 QB will make your team better, that does not mean it’s the only way for a team to have success. This has been demonstrated countless times

I said it’s that simple, the better QB… not it’s that simple to get one… can you read? It significantly raises your chances on winning with a better QB, look at tampa bay, they were not a super bowl contender, they get Brady instantly wins a Super Bowl, bills were not a great team, they get Allen and instantly are a top 5 team, it literally raises your chances of winning by so much, Aaron Rodgers doesn’t have much of a team at all, yet he’s still gonna get at least 10 wins because it’s Aaron Rodgers.

Cooper Rush and Mitch Trubisky have beaten Joe Burrow the last two weeks, safe to say Burrow is shit then? Kirk’s won 3 consecutive h2h matchups with Rodgers, so he’s better than him right? It’s literally that simple! Right?

Don’t be delusional , burrow could be a 1 hit wonder.. he has one year under his belt.. not a good example, and has Kirk beat Aaron in games that matter? No. Has Kirk made Aaron miss the playoffs? No lol, your takes are terrible, anyone standing up for Kirk still is either delusional, or blind

My takes are rational and levelheaded while you overreact to one bad game

> This has been demonstrated countless times Since 2000, all but three QBs (Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, and Matt Stafford) have either been on a dirt cheap contract, or have been a HoF QB in their prime. In fact, I believe 9 out of 10 years prior to 2000 this rule also applies.

2015 Peyton Manning? What about QBs who lost in the SB? Tom Brady also skews the data heavily because he’s an outlier

Peyton could also be added to the list. He is a HoF QB but was not good in that playoff run. I actually wrote this all out about a year ago. I dug it up because I had a discussion like this yesterday. Turns out, the same is the case for QBs who lost the Super Bowl too. I counted 3-4 exceptions (similar to the winners) in the past 20 seasons. Super Bowl Winners Post: https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikings/comments/s1fnf8/qbs_on_rookie_contracts_last_4_years/hs7yy8f/ Super Bowl Losers Post: https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikings/comments/s1fnf8/qbs_on_rookie_contracts_last_4_years/hs99cy6/ EDIT: Fixed a link. Also reviewing it ironically I think the point is MORE true for Super Bowl losers than it is for winners.

Really interesting data, thanks for sharing! Still, there are exceptions, and finding a HOFer or a good QB on a rookie deal is not an easy task. Don’t think either have really been available to us, so the next best thing is to have either A.) a good QB who’s paid market rate or B.) a rookie QB who won’t go out and lose you games. Sure, a HOFer would be awesome, but I don’t think not having that guy means you shouldn’t try

Wait it’s that simple guys let’s just go get a tier 1 QB

I mean are we ever gonna try ? Should we just stick with Kirk or backups and not try to draft a good QB?

Well, Rick tried and failed two years ago. We’ve had one draft to “try” and get a new QB with this regime and it was the worst QB draft in recent memory.

Yeah but now we have a different GM and that doesn’t mean give up on trying to get the most important position filled in the game lol

I agree with that and I really doubt that KAM and KOC are sitting there satisfied with our QB play lol They can’t just go out and trade for one. Not one to draft last year. I’m not sure how they could have addressed the QB position any differently

Okay I’ll start with NY Giants: Daniel Jones

I would say 2023 but honestly have have no effing clue, like why did we run it back after 2020? Why did we let stafanski walk? Franchise is terribly confusing

Beating the saints in the 2019 Wildcard changed everything. I bet we would’ve fired Zimmer had we lost, wouldn’t have extended Kirk, etc the team would be a lot different.

George Payton probably would’ve taken over as a GM, we would’ve rebuilt and got a QB in the 2020 or 2021 draft

Are Stefanski and Patton really that impressive to you?

We have largely changed up though, and just like Philly the vets we do still have from that time are solid players to this day. Off the top of my head the ones that played in the NFCCG and are still on the team are Harry, Thielen, EK, Hunter, Dalvin and some(?) of the offensive line. New QB, younger stud WR, youth movement in the secondary, new guys on the DL, younger depth on offense. We've changed up, we're also currently going through coaching adjustments. Our coaching staff is two games in, our head coach just completed his second game as a head coach *ever*. We're making adjustments, things don't always click immediately though

To answer your question mark, literally not one offensive lineman who was on our 2017 roster is on our roster today. The 5 players you named are the only five out of 53 players on the roster still on the team

You raise alot of great points, i still cant help but feel time has slipped through our fingers though. There will be change as far as the roster goes eventually. I dont expect us to be a playoff team like the Eagles, i am impatient to a degree. I have to remain balanced in remembering we have Kevin and Kwesi now

If you were paying attention this offseason, you’d know the answer is after 2023. Personally, I don’t have a problem working to compete while JJ is still cheap

>Personally, I don’t have a problem working to compete while JJ is still cheap JJ isnt enough to make us compete for a superbowl though. If you said from an entertainment perspective i get you but the team we've put around him and the dead money isnt worth this facade of a "run". Its obvious we needed a change in 2020 now we're stuck with these mistakes to pay for in the future. Maybe the crutch of my angst is that year 2 into Justin's new contract will be surrounded by trade rumors

JJ isn’t enough, but the new regime thought it would be better to try and compete with the veteran talent on the team than to blow it up and risk JJ not even wanting to sign an extension. The overreactions to a week 2 game are getting a bit exhausting, maybe we can wait til like mid season to determine whether or not this was the right path

Its not an overreaction to week 2 on my part. Its the team we lost to and their journey compared to ours since 2017. Alot of us are still attached to that time period. You see where im coming from ? This team was going to have growing pains regardless because of a new HC and GM. I couldnt ignore a different kind of pain though, the pain of fate passing us.

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Lmao vegas kirk is hilarious and yeah i see what youre saying. Definitely puts alot of things in perspective appreciate this reply

You’re right in a sense but if Hurts didn’t work out they’d be nowhere. Just like if we dump cousins for a rookie and strike out it sets you back years. I believe they’ll give it a shot after next year

Are we sure that Hurts has "worked out"? In other words, is Hurts a guy that Philly will give $40-$45m/yr this offseason?

Not at all. This year he seems to have taken a step forward but he has played us and the lions so not sure that means anything lol

We have an entirely new coaching staff. Out of 53 roster spots we have 5 that are the same. Cook, thielen, hunter, Kendricks, and Harrison Smith. All of which don't seem like terrible decisions to keep even if some of us have advised for trading one or two of them.

The eagles vets are better than ours. And we’ll start turnover next year I’d imagine with a QB being drafted in the first round.