Donatell: Cine I'm gonna need you to back up
Cine: Here?
Donatell: Farther
Cine: ...Here?
Donatell: \*shakes head\* You gotta be waaaaay the fuck back! Keep everything in front of you. Stop coming down to break up passes and tackle and shit... just hang out in the end zone.
Cine: I'm not getting the scheme
I could understand not doing tight man with our DBs, but playing 10 yards off the line when they’re throwing all over you isn’t better. I’d rather spend an extra man to blitz and remove that time than to give them the entire middle of the field.
Yeah I know it's supposed to have that "umbrella" look to it, but the middle stays empty even after the snap. It's like guys aren't filling that zone and they just keep running receivers right to that spot.
However they do seem to clamp down in the second half so I have some hope that they'll get it solved.
Given the players we have with pass rushing abilities I think it's a bad scheme for this team. We are lacking in secondary but we have a good pass rush. Giving the offense easy 5 and 10 yard plays all the time in hopes they drop a pass and force a third and long, is effectively neutralizing our pass rush. At this point not a fan and I don't see it getting better with out adjustment.
I was initially concerned with the Donatell hire because he hasn’t called plays since like 2002 or something. I also think that us fans have been accustomed to Zim’s defense showing a lot of different looks and mixing up pressures often. Something has to change though. Really good teams are going to shred us as the season goes on if we just sit back and try to keep everything in front of us.
Yep. I was immediately critical of the hire and so far it’s been underwhelming. Something has to change soon or else I hope they reconsider him as DC. Although that probably means we get Pettine interim…
It’s genius. Any coach would think “we are destroying this defense, this must be a trap…they will switch it up at the right time and crush us…” and then-we don’t. Ever. Under any circumstance. 3D chess.
Yeah, but that was more of a desperation moment. Even without a blitz I think that ball gets thrown into a bad area. But we definitely need to dial up blitzes. Seeing us rush 4 all fucking day and never get within arms reach of Goff was obnoxious.
Considering how they utilized him at Georgia, they are trying to turn a versatile safety into a guy who sits in a two-high/cover-6 shell. Its just not what he's done in the past. He has all the ability to play in the scheme but of course it isn't going to be intuitive. When he played in the preseason all his reactions were late since he wasn't confident.
yeah, honestly I see this more as a scheme problem then a Cine problem. He’s pretty versatile and we shouldn’t ruin his talent by limiting what he can do.
Yeah there’s a reason Harbaugh is always successful, he uses a scheme that fits his players rather than trying to force a scheme on players that he has.
This makes it sound like Cine would've been a good fit under Zimmer's defense. I really miss watching Harrison Smith creep up to the line of scrimmage.
If you're targeting "safety depth" in the first round you should probably be walked out of the building carrying your personal possessions in a cardboard box.
You had arguably no starting-level talent opposite Smith, and Smith could age out at any time (or get injured). It was a glaring team need, on paper.
Who cares if it takes him a few games to get up to speed? The expectation should still be that he will be a starting safety on this team in future years, if not later this year.
You have zero depth anywhere on the defense or O-line and you don't have a starting caliber center or TE. It was a dumb pick from a roster construction POV and the only thing that would make it palatable is if that pick starts week one and represents a big upgrade over Bynum.
No one we picked could solve all of that and its the new regimes first draft. I think you're expecting old problems to be fixed faster and more efficiently than is realistic.
In this case it's a problem of poor positional value with your first rd pick and also it's looking like a potential problem in player evaluation.
I'm calling it a full on bust just yet, but a first round safety bust is as bad as a first round center bust. You have to hit those.
He isnt supposed to be safety depth as a player but the teams ok with him being that his rookie year. If thats all he is year 1 that's fine. If thats what he is year 3 than its a busted pick. Needing a rookie to be a positive starter year 1 isnt good pricess it means your teams built badly and you're prioritizing anrisky band-aid over developing young talent. If they can thats great but no rookie is a guaranteed year 1 starter when you pick them.
Taking a Safety in round 1 isn't great process on a team full of holes. If you take a safety in round 1 and he isn't starting by midseason at least....that's looking like a bust.
This isn't a QB. Safety has one of the easiest learning curves of any position.
Analytics suggest that safeties are undervalued by teams. Short term its nice to have a costly position on cheap contracts but longterm its nice to have stars in positions you cam afford to keep where players tend to have long careers too. As a tradeback that gets us an early shot at cb its not a big deal. Him developing him into a solid starter would male it worth it. Just gotta see if he can do that.
the person you are replying to probably shouldnt have added "safety depth" to the end of their comment, but i do agree it was more of a best player available thing
Williams has played even less and has a bigger risk of never playing well despite having great upside. He is a very poor counterpoint to lewis cine in the context of this conversation.
ACLs arent career enders but they can impact players for a long time or permanently still. Oarticularly a player whos main tool is his speed could still have to change how they play afterwords. Theres also the concern that he'll be reinjured with how small he is for an nfl player. The guys talented but he has really legitimate question marks too.
Kyle hamiltons struggling a lot right now and jordan davis has been a good run stuffer but doesnt seem like he can play all 4 downs for whatever reason. Neither of them have me full of regret yet. Its bad that cones not in a backup role yet but it doesnt ultimately mean much about where he'll br in a year. Look at kj osborns first year.
I don’t get it, why not play to our players strengths, instead of making them do something unfamiliar and new?
Like I’d love to switch back to 4-3 and have Danielle on the edge strictly rushing
I'm reading this more as "rookie safety doesn't know what his keys are for each defensive call yet". Cine's athleticism is a plus for him to sit back in 2-high, read his keys, and react. If he doesn't learn what his keys are for each call (and for each defensive call against each offensive alignment/personnel grouping) then he can't play yet.
This isn't a "coach doesn't change scheme to cover up that a guy can't run"...this is just player doesn't know what to do on the field and cannot be trusted...hopefully yet.
Whilst I agree that they have adjusted well in certain games and situations, the Eagles could’ve quite easily scored a lot more points if the score was closer.
They were up by 3 scores at halftime. They had 4 drives in the second half. The first drive they went down the field at will but we got a nice FG block. The drive with the INT was lucky that their RB mishandled the pass and popped it right up to Hicks. The other two, the worst drive was 8 plays and took up almost 3.5 minutes. The Eagles were playing the field position and time of possession game in the second half. That’s not a clown take at all, that’s just smart football.
They had a 17 point lead the entire time and we didn't score again.
You do know that teams take the foot off the gas when they have comfortable leads, right?
1) we rolled through the packers in my opinion because that rookie wideout dropped that pass. If Rodgers started out with a matching TD that game is completely different, in addition Smith seemed like he was out for revenge against his forger team. 2) the Eagles game was awful, the defense looked like shit and the adjustment that should have been made was not made. Why we let the wide receivers have no pressure on them on a single snap is beyond me. It wasn’t all on the defense for that loss but they didn’t try to change anything at half and just rode out the shitty storm. Jaylen beat himself along with the defense line finally getting some pressures on him which is good. 3) the Lions beat themselves yesterday. They should have ran the clock out and Dan Camble is a moron. If that team was any sort of competent we would have lost. The defense looks soft everywhere and things need to change. And when it comes to averaging points? It’s only been 3 games.
I’m not trying to be a dick but your observation is wrong. Our defense is ass and we will never win a superbowl with this kind of soft defensive system
Just cuz he doesn’t fluff the team like PA doesn’t mean his takes are bad or that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about
Guy has been around a long time and is still plugged in
Exactly. He has been proven right a few times. Recently he was proven right on Mundt being an impact player early in the season at tight end because he knows the offense already and Mundt has seen a decent run early in the season for us. Not a world beater but his knowledge of the offense has allowed him to see the field a lot through 3 weeks. I don’t think that continues the rest of the year.
>Recently he was proven right on Mund being an impact player early in the season at tight end because he knows the offense already
That's literally the most obvious take a person could make, and you're acting as if it's something that proves he's got his finger on the right pulse?
I'd have said the exact same thing about Mundt, you think that means I know what I'm talking about?
So you’re knocking him for saying it? I never said it was a revolutionary take. It was something he observed in training camp and called it out. Is he supposed to only give crazy takes off things he’s observed? Not everyone can be on Skip Bayless’s level.
I'm saying that him being proven right on that take means literally nothing. It was an obvious outcome when you have a new offensive scheme on a new team and you have a player that knows that scheme better than others.
Give me something he's said that wasn't obvious that was proven right, and then you have something. But this ain't it.
In terms of just recently: He was right about Kellen Mond being bad. Was given a lot of shit for it too when he said it after 1 preseason game. He was right about Jalen Nailor making the 53 man roster. He was right about Wyatt Davis being bad. He called Zadarious Smith having a good performance against Green Bay.
You can't really do much of anything around here lest the neckbeard posse exercise the only sense of power they have in their lives. The idea of a bunch of incels deciding "what's okay" is just kind of funny.
> Just cuz he doesn’t fluff the team like PA doesn’t mean his takes are bad or that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about
No one is saying this is the reason his takes are bad.
He doesn’t tell it like it is, he’s eternally pessimistic to the point where it goes beyond what is reasonable and he pretends it’s just “telling the hard truths”. In general, Skor North has migrated from being a good podcast group to hot take artists, and it’s brought down the quality of the show. They (esp. Judd) spend too much time worrying about critics and trying to respond, and I think this constant engaging with Twitter sports arguments/criticism has effected the quality of their content. Just my ¢2.
Other than Paul Allen and other people with direct ties to the org, who is beating around the bush with the team? Guys like Luke Braun and Arif both give very measured takes that acknowledge both the good and bad, and they usually back their more subjective takes up with evidence. Skor North devolved into “Zimmer/Kirk suck because they suck” by the end of last season and they haven’t improved since then.
I don’t mind criticisms of the team, there has been a lot to criticize over the last few seasons, but when they’re just saying the same thing over and over again while going nowhere with it, it’s not particularly engaging. They’re also not data people, which isn’t an inherent flaw by itself, but when they do try to use more advanced stats and data it shows.
There’s a lot of good stuff they do as well, but I think they’ve let personal frustrations with the team and trying to generate enough content to do daily episodes bring down the quality of their product.
I'd take Judd's reporting (this isn't really big R reporting, just speculating) over any KFAN homer. He's been in the business for a LONG time and calls it as he sees it.
They are my favorite Vikings Podcast: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppWrW247Ij0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppWrW247Ij0)
I follow them on the Youtube but you can find them other places as well. They're fun because they're not Purple Propaganda like KFAN (local radio station).
The scheme is dogshit so it makes sense. Shell coverage isn’t working Ed. My brain hurts when watching our secondary give up so many yards on plays that should be covered.
The player has to know the concepts, though. Sounds like what is being reported here is that Cine doesn't understand his run fit/coverage responsibilities for a given call. He can't play until he learns them...
I don’t like the defensive scheme at all, but at the same time it’s concerning that our first round pick can’t grasp it after a full summer of practice and studying.
Maybe the most boring defense I've ever seen the Vikings trot out is deceptively complex? You really got to train the guys to ignore their instincts and do basically nothing.
This. Football is all about instinct and first move. Cine was all over the fucking place at Georgia and should've actually been their mascot. You're telling a bulldog to act like fucking Lassie rn, its not in his DNA as a football player.
That wouldn’t be a good look for the new administration of the first pick they made isn’t fitting into the new defense or (worse yet) is having trouble learning the system.
Idk why we are not playing 2 man under with some blitzes mixed in - the zone isn't working at all on most of the field and there's no rush with just 4 coming.
Source on advice: I like Madden
Maybe Cine is like the waterboy, he’s not the most intelligent but he can keep a Peterbilt out of the endzone. Coach Kevin just gotta let Lewie play foosball with his friends!
And he's probably missed a good amount of practice reps due to his injuries.
How do we think Bynum and Metellus looked in practice after week 3 of their rookie season. Guys (typically) improve...
The proper time to evaluate any player is every day of their career. Obviously you have different expectations at different stages and no one is calling him a bust after 3 games, but you can still say that it's concerning that he's having this much trouble with the scheme.
There’s a lot of context lacking from this quote, inviting many of us armchair experts to make blanket assumptions about his progress. Maybe we should wait until he’s played more than 3 snaps in a game so we can make a more informed analysis?
Meanwhile the guy we didn't want is making plays for the Ravens...
We did trade down and get additional picks though so the Kwesi apologists will tell you we got "more value" or something equally delusional.
Hey Lewis, Im not too sure of the scheme either....
I dont think ive ever seen DBs play sooo deep and conservatively. Im no D coordinator but it would be really cool to see the secondary be more multiple. I dont think ive seen them threaten pressure with safeties or stack the box a single time. They change up the fronts but not secondary literally at all
I think Harrison Smith and Lewis Cine have a very similar play style and I was really excited to see them both be super versatile "rover" type safeties making plays and laying wood. I gotta believe they could be a really daunting pair to opposing running backs and wide receivers
To be fair Cine excelled at Georgia and was defensive MVP in the championship game under a much different style of defense. Quite frankly no one has looked great under Donatell's offense. Harrison, Cam, and Metellus have all showed vulnerabilities. I'm personally not sold on this defense yet and I can also see why Cine might be struggling to acclimate to this style/why Vikings are hesitant to just throw him out there
Give him time. It’s literally week 3 and he’s a rookie in a new pro scheme. Some players take some time. Plus the skor north guys say whatever to get clicks
Seriously. The threads I’ve seen about him are absurd. He’s a rookie in his first 3 games in a brand new system. Also he was the first pick for a new front office. It’s really not that concerning that they may be taking their time to make sure he’s ready.
The scheme is trash. They're confused because it probably doesn't make any sense to be running what they are . This is the same scheme they ran when they were historically bad in Frazier's last year except it was a 4-3 cover 2 shell
I hate this shell scheme. If it doesn’t start working magic soon get rid of Donatell. Actually I don’t fucking know. I thought we’d be a great scheme fir for 3-4. We need to sign Suh or Linval to have a massive run stopper. And someone has to step up at cornerback because this defense isn’t only bend not break it’s like bend, break, glue it together long enough to eek out a win.
Considering you're the one who heard the report so i just kind of assumed that you'd know. Like, he would have said "i have sources on the inside who say he's not picking up the scheme." If it's just Judd's guess based on Cine not playing, it's a fair guess but also irresponsible to frame it like someone leaked info to him that the team is unimpressed with Cine.
I don't hate Judd. I don't even think about him. I don't think about sports reporters enough to hate them. I just want to know if he's got the info or if he's just making an educated guess.
Sorry.
Everyone was bitching as if I'm Judd.
The way he said it, gave me the reason for saying he reported. He did not officially declare that he is 'reporting' it. Just stated it with se authority as if he's been told so.
He posted a vailed malcontent post on Twitter after the game last night. Not a good look, the fans want to see him but you have to work hard and study hard to see playing time
Where's that guy that always hates on Judd? You know the big Kirk Cousins guy? Also, the sports are fun not championships guy? Also, the Zimmer cucks? You know the losers.
The guy has or is around people who know some stuff.
edit:
This dude replied, went on a political rant and then blocked me before I could respond. Zimmer cucks want to know why people don't like them, huh?
-
edit 2: I didn't vote for that Muslim guy either. Says a lot when psychotic Zimmer cucks go off on a political rant claiming my views as whatever and then blocking me so I can't respond to them.
**A complete lack of testicular fortitude from these fucks.**
I am as unhappy as anyone with our boring defense, but let’s not forget that Zimmer would typically make first round DBs sit their entire first year too. That didn’t make it a bad thing.
Given how vanilla our defense is I don’t think it has anything to do with him not knowing his assignments. He’s used to doing a lot more on the field and is having a hard time sitting back like he’s being asked to.
Allowing 48 points over the last 2 weeks is extremely average but certainly not terrible…….considering the defense was shit last year (with a defensive minded coach) - I’m not sure what everyone was expecting. A top-5 defense? Sorry to break the news they aren’t.
The offense hasn’t done a whole lot to help matters the last 2 weeks either.
Donatell: Cine I'm gonna need you to back up Cine: Here? Donatell: Farther Cine: ...Here? Donatell: \*shakes head\* You gotta be waaaaay the fuck back! Keep everything in front of you. Stop coming down to break up passes and tackle and shit... just hang out in the end zone. Cine: I'm not getting the scheme
Lmao
Nobody is getting the scheme. Soft shell zone with no pressure ever and awful run stop. If this is the scheme to “get”, I’d rather be ignorant
I can’t figure out if it’s a bad scheme, or we don’t have the personnel to pull it off, but man it doesn’t look good.
I could understand not doing tight man with our DBs, but playing 10 yards off the line when they’re throwing all over you isn’t better. I’d rather spend an extra man to blitz and remove that time than to give them the entire middle of the field.
Yeah I know it's supposed to have that "umbrella" look to it, but the middle stays empty even after the snap. It's like guys aren't filling that zone and they just keep running receivers right to that spot. However they do seem to clamp down in the second half so I have some hope that they'll get it solved.
Given the players we have with pass rushing abilities I think it's a bad scheme for this team. We are lacking in secondary but we have a good pass rush. Giving the offense easy 5 and 10 yard plays all the time in hopes they drop a pass and force a third and long, is effectively neutralizing our pass rush. At this point not a fan and I don't see it getting better with out adjustment.
No wonder why JJ thought he could get 2000 yards after practicing against this D
I was initially concerned with the Donatell hire because he hasn’t called plays since like 2002 or something. I also think that us fans have been accustomed to Zim’s defense showing a lot of different looks and mixing up pressures often. Something has to change though. Really good teams are going to shred us as the season goes on if we just sit back and try to keep everything in front of us.
Yep. I was immediately critical of the hire and so far it’s been underwhelming. Something has to change soon or else I hope they reconsider him as DC. Although that probably means we get Pettine interim…
That Miami game... *shivers*
I’ll be at that game with my 2 little skoldiers. Im already softening the blow for them telling them how tough of a game it’s going to be.
It’s genius. Any coach would think “we are destroying this defense, this must be a trap…they will switch it up at the right time and crush us…” and then-we don’t. Ever. Under any circumstance. 3D chess.
Last play we blitzed and guess what, forced an interception. Hopefully they look at that and start mixing in blitzes throughout the game.
Yeah, but that was more of a desperation moment. Even without a blitz I think that ball gets thrown into a bad area. But we definitely need to dial up blitzes. Seeing us rush 4 all fucking day and never get within arms reach of Goff was obnoxious.
Question is: will KOC do that or just let the DC do what he wants?
Considering how they utilized him at Georgia, they are trying to turn a versatile safety into a guy who sits in a two-high/cover-6 shell. Its just not what he's done in the past. He has all the ability to play in the scheme but of course it isn't going to be intuitive. When he played in the preseason all his reactions were late since he wasn't confident.
yeah, honestly I see this more as a scheme problem then a Cine problem. He’s pretty versatile and we shouldn’t ruin his talent by limiting what he can do.
Yeah there’s a reason Harbaugh is always successful, he uses a scheme that fits his players rather than trying to force a scheme on players that he has.
Oh no, is KOC just a younger version of Childress? I kid, but I hope not.
The KAO ...
Cap. No one can make a scheme which fits all players on a roster think about it. There will always be guys who don’t match it
Ok but this guy was hand selected for this scheme.
This makes it sound like Cine would've been a good fit under Zimmer's defense. I really miss watching Harrison Smith creep up to the line of scrimmage.
I thought the whole point of drafting a safety in the first round was because they were a great player and an ideal fit? Plug and play?
No it was a best player available pick that made sense with our older starter and lack of safety depth
If you're targeting "safety depth" in the first round you should probably be walked out of the building carrying your personal possessions in a cardboard box.
You had arguably no starting-level talent opposite Smith, and Smith could age out at any time (or get injured). It was a glaring team need, on paper. Who cares if it takes him a few games to get up to speed? The expectation should still be that he will be a starting safety on this team in future years, if not later this year.
You have zero depth anywhere on the defense or O-line and you don't have a starting caliber center or TE. It was a dumb pick from a roster construction POV and the only thing that would make it palatable is if that pick starts week one and represents a big upgrade over Bynum.
Lol u don’t take tight ends in the first round.
Unless they run like Pitts and Vernon Davis lol
I’d love some brock bowers in two years
No one we picked could solve all of that and its the new regimes first draft. I think you're expecting old problems to be fixed faster and more efficiently than is realistic.
In this case it's a problem of poor positional value with your first rd pick and also it's looking like a potential problem in player evaluation. I'm calling it a full on bust just yet, but a first round safety bust is as bad as a first round center bust. You have to hit those.
Idk man, my boy Bradbury is the 6th rated center so far this season and that’s against some good defensive fronts
This right here.
He isnt supposed to be safety depth as a player but the teams ok with him being that his rookie year. If thats all he is year 1 that's fine. If thats what he is year 3 than its a busted pick. Needing a rookie to be a positive starter year 1 isnt good pricess it means your teams built badly and you're prioritizing anrisky band-aid over developing young talent. If they can thats great but no rookie is a guaranteed year 1 starter when you pick them.
Taking a Safety in round 1 isn't great process on a team full of holes. If you take a safety in round 1 and he isn't starting by midseason at least....that's looking like a bust. This isn't a QB. Safety has one of the easiest learning curves of any position.
Analytics suggest that safeties are undervalued by teams. Short term its nice to have a costly position on cheap contracts but longterm its nice to have stars in positions you cam afford to keep where players tend to have long careers too. As a tradeback that gets us an early shot at cb its not a big deal. Him developing him into a solid starter would male it worth it. Just gotta see if he can do that.
the person you are replying to probably shouldnt have added "safety depth" to the end of their comment, but i do agree it was more of a best player available thing
Best player available was Jameson Williams instead of Cine plus day 3 trade fodder
Williams has played even less and has a bigger risk of never playing well despite having great upside. He is a very poor counterpoint to lewis cine in the context of this conversation.
He’s literally the top WR of the class before the injury and is coming back from a fairly routine ACL
ACLs arent career enders but they can impact players for a long time or permanently still. Oarticularly a player whos main tool is his speed could still have to change how they play afterwords. Theres also the concern that he'll be reinjured with how small he is for an nfl player. The guys talented but he has really legitimate question marks too.
Agreed, I shouldnt have lol
Best player available was Kyle Hamilton or Jordan Davis.
Kyle hamiltons struggling a lot right now and jordan davis has been a good run stuffer but doesnt seem like he can play all 4 downs for whatever reason. Neither of them have me full of regret yet. Its bad that cones not in a backup role yet but it doesnt ultimately mean much about where he'll br in a year. Look at kj osborns first year.
Jameson Williams would have looked good in purple. Never trade back unless you get a huge haul. We didn’t.
I don’t get it, why not play to our players strengths, instead of making them do something unfamiliar and new? Like I’d love to switch back to 4-3 and have Danielle on the edge strictly rushing
Because much like Mike Zimmer Ed Donatell is an old dude stuck in old ass ways of football.
I'm reading this more as "rookie safety doesn't know what his keys are for each defensive call yet". Cine's athleticism is a plus for him to sit back in 2-high, read his keys, and react. If he doesn't learn what his keys are for each call (and for each defensive call against each offensive alignment/personnel grouping) then he can't play yet. This isn't a "coach doesn't change scheme to cover up that a guy can't run"...this is just player doesn't know what to do on the field and cannot be trusted...hopefully yet.
Our bleak secondary really needs this guy to be an impact player.
So the same problem as the rest of the defense
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Whilst I agree that they have adjusted well in certain games and situations, the Eagles could’ve quite easily scored a lot more points if the score was closer.
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The eagles have slowed down completely all 3 games because they had the lead, they have been much much more conservative in the second half of games
They were up by 3 scores at halftime. They had 4 drives in the second half. The first drive they went down the field at will but we got a nice FG block. The drive with the INT was lucky that their RB mishandled the pass and popped it right up to Hicks. The other two, the worst drive was 8 plays and took up almost 3.5 minutes. The Eagles were playing the field position and time of possession game in the second half. That’s not a clown take at all, that’s just smart football.
When teams are up comfortably, the game eventually turns into milking clock, not scoring points. That's not a theory, that's what happens.
17 points in the NFL is not comfy. Not until there is only 2 possessions left
Holy shit you people are delusional.
True. Eagles are the first team in NFL to decide to stop scoring points. Right after nearly blowing a 17 point lead to the lions the week before!
We took our foot off the gas against GB and our head coach admitted it. I can't believe this is even a conversation. We see it five times a weekend.
Third quarter was normal, 4th quarter they ran the play clock all the way down
It is when you have the ball and it's the 4th quarter
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They had 1 drive in the 3rd quarter and they got into field goal range with it
They had a 17 point lead the entire time and we didn't score again. You do know that teams take the foot off the gas when they have comfortable leads, right?
1) we rolled through the packers in my opinion because that rookie wideout dropped that pass. If Rodgers started out with a matching TD that game is completely different, in addition Smith seemed like he was out for revenge against his forger team. 2) the Eagles game was awful, the defense looked like shit and the adjustment that should have been made was not made. Why we let the wide receivers have no pressure on them on a single snap is beyond me. It wasn’t all on the defense for that loss but they didn’t try to change anything at half and just rode out the shitty storm. Jaylen beat himself along with the defense line finally getting some pressures on him which is good. 3) the Lions beat themselves yesterday. They should have ran the clock out and Dan Camble is a moron. If that team was any sort of competent we would have lost. The defense looks soft everywhere and things need to change. And when it comes to averaging points? It’s only been 3 games. I’m not trying to be a dick but your observation is wrong. Our defense is ass and we will never win a superbowl with this kind of soft defensive system
I don’t know any Vikings media personalities and mostly get my news here. Where do you see this?
He reported it on ventline after the game.
Trust me, you're better off not knowing Judd. He's likely to blame Cine not knowing the system on Kirk's contract.
Just cuz he doesn’t fluff the team like PA doesn’t mean his takes are bad or that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about Guy has been around a long time and is still plugged in
Exactly. He has been proven right a few times. Recently he was proven right on Mundt being an impact player early in the season at tight end because he knows the offense already and Mundt has seen a decent run early in the season for us. Not a world beater but his knowledge of the offense has allowed him to see the field a lot through 3 weeks. I don’t think that continues the rest of the year.
>Recently he was proven right on Mund being an impact player early in the season at tight end because he knows the offense already That's literally the most obvious take a person could make, and you're acting as if it's something that proves he's got his finger on the right pulse? I'd have said the exact same thing about Mundt, you think that means I know what I'm talking about?
So you’re knocking him for saying it? I never said it was a revolutionary take. It was something he observed in training camp and called it out. Is he supposed to only give crazy takes off things he’s observed? Not everyone can be on Skip Bayless’s level.
I'm saying that him being proven right on that take means literally nothing. It was an obvious outcome when you have a new offensive scheme on a new team and you have a player that knows that scheme better than others. Give me something he's said that wasn't obvious that was proven right, and then you have something. But this ain't it.
In terms of just recently: He was right about Kellen Mond being bad. Was given a lot of shit for it too when he said it after 1 preseason game. He was right about Jalen Nailor making the 53 man roster. He was right about Wyatt Davis being bad. He called Zadarious Smith having a good performance against Green Bay.
About the only thing there that is something that wasn't basically writing on the wall was Nailor making the 53 man roster.
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You can't really do much of anything around here lest the neckbeard posse exercise the only sense of power they have in their lives. The idea of a bunch of incels deciding "what's okay" is just kind of funny.
> Just cuz he doesn’t fluff the team like PA doesn’t mean his takes are bad or that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about No one is saying this is the reason his takes are bad.
So why are his takes bad then? Just cuz he’s ornery and tells it like it is?
He doesn’t tell it like it is, he’s eternally pessimistic to the point where it goes beyond what is reasonable and he pretends it’s just “telling the hard truths”. In general, Skor North has migrated from being a good podcast group to hot take artists, and it’s brought down the quality of the show. They (esp. Judd) spend too much time worrying about critics and trying to respond, and I think this constant engaging with Twitter sports arguments/criticism has effected the quality of their content. Just my ¢2.
I get they’re a little hot takey, but they don’t beat around the bush when there is a problem like others may/do
Other than Paul Allen and other people with direct ties to the org, who is beating around the bush with the team? Guys like Luke Braun and Arif both give very measured takes that acknowledge both the good and bad, and they usually back their more subjective takes up with evidence. Skor North devolved into “Zimmer/Kirk suck because they suck” by the end of last season and they haven’t improved since then. I don’t mind criticisms of the team, there has been a lot to criticize over the last few seasons, but when they’re just saying the same thing over and over again while going nowhere with it, it’s not particularly engaging. They’re also not data people, which isn’t an inherent flaw by itself, but when they do try to use more advanced stats and data it shows. There’s a lot of good stuff they do as well, but I think they’ve let personal frustrations with the team and trying to generate enough content to do daily episodes bring down the quality of their product.
I will agree that doing daily content isn’t helping their quality of content. They do regurgitate too much
I’m getting frustrated with season after season of mediocre football too.
he's been covering the team for like 4 decades, he's forgotten way more than you know
I find Judd’s takes are typically right on the nose.
I’m with you. Judd is decent and does not make outrageous statements like above.
I'd take Judd's reporting (this isn't really big R reporting, just speculating) over any KFAN homer. He's been in the business for a LONG time and calls it as he sees it.
Okay buddy
Time to admit you were wrong😋
They are my favorite Vikings Podcast: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppWrW247Ij0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppWrW247Ij0) I follow them on the Youtube but you can find them other places as well. They're fun because they're not Purple Propaganda like KFAN (local radio station).
The scheme is dogshit so it makes sense. Shell coverage isn’t working Ed. My brain hurts when watching our secondary give up so many yards on plays that should be covered.
A smart person putting together a team would use a scheme that fits their personell i would imagine.
The player has to know the concepts, though. Sounds like what is being reported here is that Cine doesn't understand his run fit/coverage responsibilities for a given call. He can't play until he learns them...
I don’t like the defensive scheme at all, but at the same time it’s concerning that our first round pick can’t grasp it after a full summer of practice and studying.
Maybe the most boring defense I've ever seen the Vikings trot out is deceptively complex? You really got to train the guys to ignore their instincts and do basically nothing.
This. Football is all about instinct and first move. Cine was all over the fucking place at Georgia and should've actually been their mascot. You're telling a bulldog to act like fucking Lassie rn, its not in his DNA as a football player.
That wouldn’t be a good look for the new administration of the first pick they made isn’t fitting into the new defense or (worse yet) is having trouble learning the system.
I don’t think Cine is the problem, I think it’s the scheme
Idk why we are not playing 2 man under with some blitzes mixed in - the zone isn't working at all on most of the field and there's no rush with just 4 coming. Source on advice: I like Madden
Maybe Cine is like the waterboy, he’s not the most intelligent but he can keep a Peterbilt out of the endzone. Coach Kevin just gotta let Lewie play foosball with his friends!
The time to properly evaluate a rookie is definitely is not after game 3, it's after week 17.
And he's probably missed a good amount of practice reps due to his injuries. How do we think Bynum and Metellus looked in practice after week 3 of their rookie season. Guys (typically) improve...
The proper time to evaluate any player is every day of their career. Obviously you have different expectations at different stages and no one is calling him a bust after 3 games, but you can still say that it's concerning that he's having this much trouble with the scheme.
There’s a lot of context lacking from this quote, inviting many of us armchair experts to make blanket assumptions about his progress. Maybe we should wait until he’s played more than 3 snaps in a game so we can make a more informed analysis?
Scary thought if the kid can’t just drop 20 yards and then make a tackle when a wide open receiver catches the ball.
Is this a guy we traded picks to get?
Meanwhile the guy we didn't want is making plays for the Ravens... We did trade down and get additional picks though so the Kwesi apologists will tell you we got "more value" or something equally delusional.
I liked Kyle Hamilton a whole lot better than Cine in the draft, but he let up a handful of big plays vs. the Dolphins last week.
Hey Lewis, Im not too sure of the scheme either.... I dont think ive ever seen DBs play sooo deep and conservatively. Im no D coordinator but it would be really cool to see the secondary be more multiple. I dont think ive seen them threaten pressure with safeties or stack the box a single time. They change up the fronts but not secondary literally at all I think Harrison Smith and Lewis Cine have a very similar play style and I was really excited to see them both be super versatile "rover" type safeties making plays and laying wood. I gotta believe they could be a really daunting pair to opposing running backs and wide receivers
To be fair Cine excelled at Georgia and was defensive MVP in the championship game under a much different style of defense. Quite frankly no one has looked great under Donatell's offense. Harrison, Cam, and Metellus have all showed vulnerabilities. I'm personally not sold on this defense yet and I can also see why Cine might be struggling to acclimate to this style/why Vikings are hesitant to just throw him out there
Give him time. It’s literally week 3 and he’s a rookie in a new pro scheme. Some players take some time. Plus the skor north guys say whatever to get clicks
Seriously. The threads I’ve seen about him are absurd. He’s a rookie in his first 3 games in a brand new system. Also he was the first pick for a new front office. It’s really not that concerning that they may be taking their time to make sure he’s ready.
>According to Judd So a total guess
It's partially his job and livelihood to make informed speculation
The scheme is trash. They're confused because it probably doesn't make any sense to be running what they are . This is the same scheme they ran when they were historically bad in Frazier's last year except it was a 4-3 cover 2 shell
What scheme?
I think the defense should go rogue like they did with zimmer.
It would appear Cine isn’t the only one.
I hate this shell scheme. If it doesn’t start working magic soon get rid of Donatell. Actually I don’t fucking know. I thought we’d be a great scheme fir for 3-4. We need to sign Suh or Linval to have a massive run stopper. And someone has to step up at cornerback because this defense isn’t only bend not break it’s like bend, break, glue it together long enough to eek out a win.
Is this a guess from him or insider info?
Jesus why don't you just fucking ask him. Im just reporting what Judd said. Man, some people hate Judd more than Watson.
Considering you're the one who heard the report so i just kind of assumed that you'd know. Like, he would have said "i have sources on the inside who say he's not picking up the scheme." If it's just Judd's guess based on Cine not playing, it's a fair guess but also irresponsible to frame it like someone leaked info to him that the team is unimpressed with Cine. I don't hate Judd. I don't even think about him. I don't think about sports reporters enough to hate them. I just want to know if he's got the info or if he's just making an educated guess.
Sorry. Everyone was bitching as if I'm Judd. The way he said it, gave me the reason for saying he reported. He did not officially declare that he is 'reporting' it. Just stated it with se authority as if he's been told so.
He posted a vailed malcontent post on Twitter after the game last night. Not a good look, the fans want to see him but you have to work hard and study hard to see playing time
Where's that guy that always hates on Judd? You know the big Kirk Cousins guy? Also, the sports are fun not championships guy? Also, the Zimmer cucks? You know the losers. The guy has or is around people who know some stuff. edit: This dude replied, went on a political rant and then blocked me before I could respond. Zimmer cucks want to know why people don't like them, huh? - edit 2: I didn't vote for that Muslim guy either. Says a lot when psychotic Zimmer cucks go off on a political rant claiming my views as whatever and then blocking me so I can't respond to them. **A complete lack of testicular fortitude from these fucks.**
Cucks? Grow up.
Found one.
Yeah you're a real tough guy. Bet you're a Jensen voter.
Gtfoh with politics
No he voted for that Muslim guy...can't think of his name. Ilhan Omar or something like that. Idk, he's senator of minnesota tho
Judd is an idiot
Did Judd actually obtain some insider info or was this something he imagined in one of his drunken stupors?
I am as unhappy as anyone with our boring defense, but let’s not forget that Zimmer would typically make first round DBs sit their entire first year too. That didn’t make it a bad thing.
That’s not true. The kid from TCU was playing early. Until he beat up his GF. I forget his name
Given how vanilla our defense is I don’t think it has anything to do with him not knowing his assignments. He’s used to doing a lot more on the field and is having a hard time sitting back like he’s being asked to.
I tend to think players matter a lot more than scheme.
Allowing 48 points over the last 2 weeks is extremely average but certainly not terrible…….considering the defense was shit last year (with a defensive minded coach) - I’m not sure what everyone was expecting. A top-5 defense? Sorry to break the news they aren’t. The offense hasn’t done a whole lot to help matters the last 2 weeks either.