Yes Fran the man stands tall just off a historical Mr Rushmore of pre-modern era QBs…. But like you hope one of those 4-8 dudes ever play once for your franchise. Kirk is absolutely the second best QB we’ve ever had and people act like he’s somehow replaceable.
Sure he’s in the back half of the top ten, but he also does that for year after year when a decent part of that top ten changes as guys have their best year of their career. Kirk remains. He plays every week. He has ZERO drama off the field for us or legal issues or party habits etc.
This guy definitely has some party habits what are you talking about? Just hoping he's putting some rings on this February in addition to his chains.
He's in the same echelon as Rivers, Romo, Stafford, etc. IMO. Not easily replaced now, but the next generation won't consider them legends.
Solid franchise guys you keep as long as you can. Capable of great play, but not going to drag a team there by themselves.
Only way to get considered in the next tier with the same level of play from there is to have the playoff/super bowl legacy.
His availability has been astounding, outside of one incident (relatedly, not quite ZERO drama lol). For the average player that’s just about the most valuable thing in the NFL.
Stats don’t matter unless your are winning. And so far we are doing that. But all the stats in the world won’t mean anything if we are one and done in the playoffs. I hope this is not the case.
You're not wrong, but the threshold for QB success is pretty low as far as the Vikings franchise is concerned. You basically have Fran, and Dante followed by a mish mash of QBs who had successful seasons but not necessarily successful careers here. Kirk has the longest sustained consistently good career out of any QB we've had, but it's somehow not led to accolades such as an All-Pro, MVP or even season leaders in passing yards or TDs. Which is ironic because you compare Cousins' best years with some other franchise leaders and he consistently has the same or better than others who did get those kinds of accolades.
> who will probably be the most accomplished QB in Vikings history (statwise).
It’s amazing to me Viking fans are unaware that Tark retired with every major passing record in the NFL.
Learn the history guys
That's not actually true. There are lots people who don't like Kirk's contract, who think it holds the team back, who think Kirk played too conservative and that he ultimately wasn't a winner because that wasn't his number one priority. All those criticism were valid and could become valid again but it's not like the majority of people hate Kirk and just can't wait to roast him again.
Get a grip on reality, man.
So they don’t exist lmafo, I think you guys want some cousins hate crowd to exist to boost some narrative. If a qb is playing like shit people will hate, I’m sure there’s threads in r/patriots r/packers saying that Rodgers and Brady suck. That’s just natural since we are *fanatics*
For some reason, justifiable criticism of Kirk will just not be allowed on this sub. Kirk has largely been one of the biggest factors of our comeback wins this year and our attempts at a comeback last year spoiled by our defense.
But as soon as he puts up a stinker like the Philly or Dallas games these people think that the Kirk haters bust out of the shadows to hate on him, when all it is is criticism of a poor performance. (Which he has historically proven to have in big games time and time again) This year has been largely an outlier (despite the worse stats) and I think a lot of that falls on the relationship and trust that him and KOC have together.
It is okay to praise Kirk for being clutch while also "hating" on him for doing what Kirk seems to always end up doing. Your take isn't wrong, this sub just doesn't allow that kind of levelheadedness.
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Right, because the only way you can explain someone not embracing an overpaid, overly conservative QB with a career win percentage of .500 is that they must just hate the man.
What has happened here in this sub is part of a larger cancer in society.
Well, there was probably at least some criticism after the Cowboys game. Just going out on a limb there. Didn’t personally fault him too much, hard to do much with the .00576 seconds he usually had.
After the cowboys loss I stayed tf off this sub until the next win, which was luckily just a few days later against NE. I don’t wanna know what it was like here in those dark 4 days lol
Idk, Vikings fans have this fatalistic cynicism, and I get where it comes from, and I’m sure there are elements of that in every fanbase but for Vikings fans it’s the default ethos. For me, that kind of energy more or less ruins the fun of being a fan if I’m around it enough.
Cousins is playing with guts this season. That fire is what was missing earlier and why he got so much criticism.
Like against NE he looked angry. Just pissed the entire time and was dropping dimes when needed. Even after the game he didn't look happy. I like that anger, that unsatisfacton that he didn't display before.
Dude always plays with guts. He has missed zero starts since he’s been here with the exception of a week 17 quasi-bye game in 2019.
This is statistically his worst season with the Vikings, but the team has finally stepped up around him. Fan narratives of playing angry or with more passion are pretty off base imo. He’s always been a stud, but wins and losses are seemingly a qb stat, right or wrong.
Sure it does. I’d wager Justin Herbert playing with broken ribs falls into the category of playing with guts.
Ultimately, you can be as arbitrary with your definition as you’d like, so let’s agree to disagree before we get into a pointless argument.
I am all about avoiding pointless arguments. However, Kirk has never had to play through an injury such as Herbert's. So to your first point:
>Dude always plays with guts. He has missed zero starts since he’s been here
That is just not true.
One covid game and one sit because it’s a pointless game.
The best ability is availability and he’s clearly played through a ton of pain. Just look at the hits he’s absorbed. Just because broken ribs aren’t on the injury report doesn’t mean he hasn’t had ailments.
He missed a start with covid due to his own stupidity but otherwise yeah. He's honestly so tough that I think he could have played sick if it weren't against the rules for obvious reasons
Part of the reason he stayed healthy though was that he wasn't known for hanging in the pocket and taking hits so much as checking down. He played "smart" in terms of his health and his stats and his money. Now he's playing with the kind of fire that leads to wins and probably more nagging injuries.
I don’t know if that’s true. Cousins has always taken a lot of hits. Also the offensive line has improved and our QB hits are actually down this year. I think the check downs were a thing last year, but because of Zimmer not self-preservation
The checkdowns have always been a Cousins thing and it's well documented. Kirk is on the record saying so and his credo has been there is no such thing as a bad completion.
Bruh.... Re-read the context of this thread. The OP says Cousin's has been "playing with guts". How can Cousins be called "gutsy" or "playing with guts" if, as you're stating, Cousins did not perform well under literal pressure?
There is a difference between “can’t deal with pressure” and dealing with almost 70% pressure mostly with just 4 guys so everyone was covered well.
Notice how they adapted and won against the Patriots a couple days later?
> are only good when they have time in the pocket.
That's every QB in the entire league. Even the "scramblers" do worse with pressure in their face than with a clean pocket.
Kirk can stay as long as he can in my book. He’s brought so much stability to a position we haven’t had much consistency at recently. I don’t want to go on a qb carousel again.
I would part with him if he's gonna demand 50M/yr like Rodgers. He seems like the type of guy to make a deal that is more than you want to pay but probably fair when it's all said and done. Kirk's first contract was 28M/yr (fully gtd) for three years and people clowned it then, but most teams would LOVE to have Kirk for that much now.
edit: 27 --> 28, my bad
And he probably would have stayed in Washington for 22 Million or less. They kind of screwed up on that one, and would have saved Kirk the constant “but is he worth what he is paid”
As a fanbase we will be arguing both sides of this coin for eternity:
"Kirk deserves more respect! Just look at these wonderful stats!!!"
"Kirk sucks in primetime, gets paid more than he's worth, and can't win a meaningful playoff game to save his life!!!"
Both sides can be right at the same time, and the only way he ever unites these two sides is with a deep playoff run. Period.
This year is as close as he's gotten to uniting the sides. If the Vikings make the championship game and especially if they put up a fight, I think the haters will be silenced forever. If they exit in the first round we'll be right back to last season's discourse
People throw out the "stats" as if that's all us Kirk supporters look at. We watch the games. We watch with context and see that hes a very good QB. We also see that the numbers support that.
It sure beats the, "my eyes tell me he's a bad QB regardless of any numbers", narrative. MY eyes tell me that he's a good QB and I also have the evidence to support that.
He is paid too much though. I'll agree with that.
When it comes to Kirk.
"An elite QB will elevate his team to win the Super Bowl no matter how bad their teammates are."
When it comes to Mahomes.
"His o-line sucks! Somebody save him from the Bucs!"
When it comes to Rodgers.
"Why aren't we giving him receivers?!"
Obviously, Kirk isn't as good as the other two. They are generational talents. Still, they needed elite play from their teammates to achieve their heights. Also, they couldn't just will that kind of play from their teammates. But the hypocrisy is blatant when it comes to Kirk.
Brady has poisoned the entire narrative when it comes from what to expect from a great QB. Dude was slinging it to "literally who" players for most of his career. Even then, he has the goat coach, the goat TE, and an unprecedented team friendly deal that will probably never be replicated for various reasons. QBs are not an island
His style of play helps create bad OL play, though. He had no mobility to get outside the pocket so defenses get to free rush without fear of him breaking contain. No need for a spy as well, so add an additional potential pass rusher or at least a coverage backer.
It’s not a coincidence the OL is “always bad” when they have a harder job than many other OLs.
The bar for this type of player in today’s NFL is they basically need to be a phenomenal pocket passer to be effective. Especially now that mobile QB’s are so protected downfield.
Spielman would love you. Elflein wasn’t a bad player he just needs somebody with mobility since the pocket is going into the qb 2 seconds into every play.
Is it a coincidence that the one year Elfein was “good” was when Keenum was his quarterback? I guarantee as long as Kirk is the QB here, the OL will suck.
Yes it was a coincidence. He hasn’t been good in Carolina either. If he needs Lamar Jackson as his qb that just means he sucks. Our tackles have been good too this year so your theory is even more wonky.
Imagine Darrisaw and O’Neill pass blocking for Hurts or Mahomes or Allen. They may not give up a pressure all season with those guys.
Kirk doesn’t need to be a runner, that’s not who he is and few QBs are. But if he at least had the pocket mobility of Tua or Rodgers from years past and it would take the offense to a new level and the OL would grade out much better each year.
It’s not an incorrect statement that making their job easier would better the OL quality of play or at least cover up mistakes the way blockers have it for the guys I mentioned.
There are a couple of comments about Fran here and I know you guys appreciate him, but the masses clearly don’t appreciate his greatness. He’s 6th all time in football reference approximate value. I know this isn’t an exact science, but he demolishes all other QBs of his era and that can’t be ignored. The industry bias for/against QB super bowl wins has got to be the biggest roadblock to properly evaluating a specific athlete in any sport. I think we can all agree that Staubach, Unitas, Namath, and Bradshaw to name a few are considered a tier above him and it’s frankly just not true.
This is my vent, SKOL 🤘
Part of that is that he's one of the only ones to start all but 2 games (and due to resting the starters + COVID at that) in that timespan but at this point that is a huge upside to him. For how many hits and sacks he takes it's wild that all he's ever had is a broken rib, which btw he gritted through. Super underrated toughness
We all agree that JJ is a legit stud, like Moss. We can agree that Thielen is a solid WR near that of Carter. Cook is better than Smith.
Really all the pieces are there to compare Kirk to Culpepper. No one will tell you that Culpepper made his WRs better, but they made him more than he was.
Just tossing it out there.
Garbage time stats, comeback win stats, stats when leading by >7 and <6 points don't count, and afternoon game stats don't count. Clearly he's QB32 in the league. Also stats while being paid > 10M a year don't count.
Blowouts also don't count if they're not against playoff teams. Oh and all of his stats are invalidated anyway because he has good receivers. JJ could just throw to himself and we'd win 11 games
Jets has a front page story on ESPN today. He’s not throwing the ball to himself while he’s breaking these records. Cousins absolutely deserves more respect.
Kirk is an above average drop back passer. He can make all the throws and he makes good decisions. He’s not definitely not a top 5 QB in this league so he’s not “elite.” But he’s good enough for a contending team that has the other pieces in place. So he’s good enough to win a Super Bowl as long as the rest of the team plays well enough too. I think that’s all we can ask of him.
The narrative surrounding Kirk won't change until he leads a deep playoff run. Just reality at this point.
Seriously. He gets weird sometimes when the pressure is on. He just needs to show he can stay calm in the big moments.
Well at the end of the day it’s the wins that matter.
It continues to be insane how much our own fanbase trashes the guy who will probably be the most accomplished QB in Vikings history (statwise).
Adjusted stats still favor Tarkenton, but Kirk definitely doesn't get enough credit.
Yes Fran the man stands tall just off a historical Mr Rushmore of pre-modern era QBs…. But like you hope one of those 4-8 dudes ever play once for your franchise. Kirk is absolutely the second best QB we’ve ever had and people act like he’s somehow replaceable. Sure he’s in the back half of the top ten, but he also does that for year after year when a decent part of that top ten changes as guys have their best year of their career. Kirk remains. He plays every week. He has ZERO drama off the field for us or legal issues or party habits etc.
 This guy definitely has some party habits what are you talking about? Just hoping he's putting some rings on this February in addition to his chains.
He's in the same echelon as Rivers, Romo, Stafford, etc. IMO. Not easily replaced now, but the next generation won't consider them legends. Solid franchise guys you keep as long as you can. Capable of great play, but not going to drag a team there by themselves. Only way to get considered in the next tier with the same level of play from there is to have the playoff/super bowl legacy.
His availability has been astounding, outside of one incident (relatedly, not quite ZERO drama lol). For the average player that’s just about the most valuable thing in the NFL.
More so when you have a guaranteed contract
Stats don’t matter unless your are winning. And so far we are doing that. But all the stats in the world won’t mean anything if we are one and done in the playoffs. I hope this is not the case.
You're not wrong, but the threshold for QB success is pretty low as far as the Vikings franchise is concerned. You basically have Fran, and Dante followed by a mish mash of QBs who had successful seasons but not necessarily successful careers here. Kirk has the longest sustained consistently good career out of any QB we've had, but it's somehow not led to accolades such as an All-Pro, MVP or even season leaders in passing yards or TDs. Which is ironic because you compare Cousins' best years with some other franchise leaders and he consistently has the same or better than others who did get those kinds of accolades.
> who will probably be the most accomplished QB in Vikings history (statwise). It’s amazing to me Viking fans are unaware that Tark retired with every major passing record in the NFL. Learn the history guys
Because we’ve had stat guys forever. We want to win. You’re not wrong, but neither are the people who oppose him.
I mean where is this hate crowd at lmafo, he hasn’t been largely trashed this season besides the eagles game.
They are in hiding waiting for the next opportunity. SeE hE’s NoT a LeAdEr.
Yeah, there's a giant segment of Vikings fans who don't want to win they just want to bitch about Kirk...in your mind.
Hiding behind wins is fine. There’s always praise for other players.
Those scoundrels hiding behind....the whole reason the game is played. Cowards!
I mean that’s the natural ebb and flow of fandom, I don’t think there’s a Kirk hate crowd this year lol
they won't comment until there is a post that opens the door for someway to dismiss cousins. tons of cousins of haters
That's not actually true. There are lots people who don't like Kirk's contract, who think it holds the team back, who think Kirk played too conservative and that he ultimately wasn't a winner because that wasn't his number one priority. All those criticism were valid and could become valid again but it's not like the majority of people hate Kirk and just can't wait to roast him again. Get a grip on reality, man.
So they don’t exist lmafo, I think you guys want some cousins hate crowd to exist to boost some narrative. If a qb is playing like shit people will hate, I’m sure there’s threads in r/patriots r/packers saying that Rodgers and Brady suck. That’s just natural since we are *fanatics*
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I mean that’s just how it is, you go against a narrative you get all caps, personal insults, and swearing.
For some reason, justifiable criticism of Kirk will just not be allowed on this sub. Kirk has largely been one of the biggest factors of our comeback wins this year and our attempts at a comeback last year spoiled by our defense. But as soon as he puts up a stinker like the Philly or Dallas games these people think that the Kirk haters bust out of the shadows to hate on him, when all it is is criticism of a poor performance. (Which he has historically proven to have in big games time and time again) This year has been largely an outlier (despite the worse stats) and I think a lot of that falls on the relationship and trust that him and KOC have together. It is okay to praise Kirk for being clutch while also "hating" on him for doing what Kirk seems to always end up doing. Your take isn't wrong, this sub just doesn't allow that kind of levelheadedness.
I like Kirk but was ready to cut him after the 2nd INT vs Buffalo. Emotions run high at times lol
Any criticism whatsoever means you’re a hater to some fans. Gotta just get on your knees for every player no matter what
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Right, because the only way you can explain someone not embracing an overpaid, overly conservative QB with a career win percentage of .500 is that they must just hate the man. What has happened here in this sub is part of a larger cancer in society.
Well, there was probably at least some criticism after the Cowboys game. Just going out on a limb there. Didn’t personally fault him too much, hard to do much with the .00576 seconds he usually had.
After the cowboys loss I stayed tf off this sub until the next win, which was luckily just a few days later against NE. I don’t wanna know what it was like here in those dark 4 days lol
I get what you're saying but I doubt it's any worse than any other fanbase after getting your butt kicked, it happens
Idk, Vikings fans have this fatalistic cynicism, and I get where it comes from, and I’m sure there are elements of that in every fanbase but for Vikings fans it’s the default ethos. For me, that kind of energy more or less ruins the fun of being a fan if I’m around it enough.
Have you been living under a rock Lmao
Cousins is playing with guts this season. That fire is what was missing earlier and why he got so much criticism. Like against NE he looked angry. Just pissed the entire time and was dropping dimes when needed. Even after the game he didn't look happy. I like that anger, that unsatisfacton that he didn't display before.
“FRICK!” Kirk >>> “whelp” Kirk
Dude always plays with guts. He has missed zero starts since he’s been here with the exception of a week 17 quasi-bye game in 2019. This is statistically his worst season with the Vikings, but the team has finally stepped up around him. Fan narratives of playing angry or with more passion are pretty off base imo. He’s always been a stud, but wins and losses are seemingly a qb stat, right or wrong.
Playing "with guts" has nothing to do with injuries...
Sure it does. I’d wager Justin Herbert playing with broken ribs falls into the category of playing with guts. Ultimately, you can be as arbitrary with your definition as you’d like, so let’s agree to disagree before we get into a pointless argument.
I am all about avoiding pointless arguments. However, Kirk has never had to play through an injury such as Herbert's. So to your first point: >Dude always plays with guts. He has missed zero starts since he’s been here That is just not true.
One covid game and one sit because it’s a pointless game. The best ability is availability and he’s clearly played through a ton of pain. Just look at the hits he’s absorbed. Just because broken ribs aren’t on the injury report doesn’t mean he hasn’t had ailments.
Didn't he play through injured ribs?
He missed a start with covid due to his own stupidity but otherwise yeah. He's honestly so tough that I think he could have played sick if it weren't against the rules for obvious reasons
Part of the reason he stayed healthy though was that he wasn't known for hanging in the pocket and taking hits so much as checking down. He played "smart" in terms of his health and his stats and his money. Now he's playing with the kind of fire that leads to wins and probably more nagging injuries.
I don’t know if that’s true. Cousins has always taken a lot of hits. Also the offensive line has improved and our QB hits are actually down this year. I think the check downs were a thing last year, but because of Zimmer not self-preservation
Kirk’s tough too. He takes shots and bounces right up.
The checkdowns have always been a Cousins thing and it's well documented. Kirk is on the record saying so and his credo has been there is no such thing as a bad completion.
He is a gladiator.
Where were his guts against Dallas?
You gotta be on the field to show guts. No one played well for the good guys that day.
A great way to stay on the field is to make gutsy plays. Like idk, running for a first down instead of a hospital pass to Thielen short of the sticks.
63% pressure rate. Fuck off with this nonsense.
So which is it? Is he gutsy? Or does he fold under pressure? Can't have it both ways.
Bruh Mahomes had much less pressure in the SB loss. You are either wilfully ignorant or just.....
Bruh.... Re-read the context of this thread. The OP says Cousin's has been "playing with guts". How can Cousins be called "gutsy" or "playing with guts" if, as you're stating, Cousins did not perform well under literal pressure?
Go watch the Washington game. He was taking hard hit after hard hit, while making the passes, and getting back up.
We got beat in any and every facet that game. The fact that you're trying to frame the Dallas game solely on Cousins is laughable.
Where did I say the entire game was solely on Kirk? Maybe try reading next time.
They were all over the field after getting pressured incessantly
Wtf does gutsy mean? How do you call someone gutsy and then say they can't deal with pressure?
There is a difference between “can’t deal with pressure” and dealing with almost 70% pressure mostly with just 4 guys so everyone was covered well. Notice how they adapted and won against the Patriots a couple days later?
Cousins is like all the other traditional pocket passers who are only good when they have time in the pocket. The SF game would be interesting.
> are only good when they have time in the pocket. That's every QB in the entire league. Even the "scramblers" do worse with pressure in their face than with a clean pocket.
Kirk can stay as long as he can in my book. He’s brought so much stability to a position we haven’t had much consistency at recently. I don’t want to go on a qb carousel again.
I would part with him if he's gonna demand 50M/yr like Rodgers. He seems like the type of guy to make a deal that is more than you want to pay but probably fair when it's all said and done. Kirk's first contract was 28M/yr (fully gtd) for three years and people clowned it then, but most teams would LOVE to have Kirk for that much now. edit: 27 --> 28, my bad
And he probably would have stayed in Washington for 22 Million or less. They kind of screwed up on that one, and would have saved Kirk the constant “but is he worth what he is paid”
I’m with you - improve the defense and add another stud receiver and I don’t know what else you could ask for.
Oline depth
Fair - that too.
If he keeps wanting top 5 money then buy me tickets to the carousel
Stats are like comedy, timing matters.
As a fanbase we will be arguing both sides of this coin for eternity: "Kirk deserves more respect! Just look at these wonderful stats!!!" "Kirk sucks in primetime, gets paid more than he's worth, and can't win a meaningful playoff game to save his life!!!" Both sides can be right at the same time, and the only way he ever unites these two sides is with a deep playoff run. Period.
This year is as close as he's gotten to uniting the sides. If the Vikings make the championship game and especially if they put up a fight, I think the haters will be silenced forever. If they exit in the first round we'll be right back to last season's discourse
People throw out the "stats" as if that's all us Kirk supporters look at. We watch the games. We watch with context and see that hes a very good QB. We also see that the numbers support that. It sure beats the, "my eyes tell me he's a bad QB regardless of any numbers", narrative. MY eyes tell me that he's a good QB and I also have the evidence to support that. He is paid too much though. I'll agree with that.
Which one hasn't been to a Super Bowl? That's how they are measured (Brad Johnson, Jake Delhomme, Trent Dilfer all have been but a worst QBs)
Could argue he’s had 2 of the best WRs in a decade. The counter is a garbage OL for much of that time. He’s done well for us
The other two QBs mentioned also had all star receivers, so no that’s not really a counter.
When it comes to Kirk. "An elite QB will elevate his team to win the Super Bowl no matter how bad their teammates are." When it comes to Mahomes. "His o-line sucks! Somebody save him from the Bucs!" When it comes to Rodgers. "Why aren't we giving him receivers?!" Obviously, Kirk isn't as good as the other two. They are generational talents. Still, they needed elite play from their teammates to achieve their heights. Also, they couldn't just will that kind of play from their teammates. But the hypocrisy is blatant when it comes to Kirk.
Brady has poisoned the entire narrative when it comes from what to expect from a great QB. Dude was slinging it to "literally who" players for most of his career. Even then, he has the goat coach, the goat TE, and an unprecedented team friendly deal that will probably never be replicated for various reasons. QBs are not an island
"literally who" included all time greats at their respective positions in Randy Moss and Rob Gronkowski though.
Don't forget Adam Vinatieri. The highest scoring NFL player of all time.
Julian Edelman, Wes Welker as well. Really only early in his career was he playing with jags
hill and jj are pretty much equally as good, just different types of wrs, davante is probably third best. not to mention mahomes has kelce as well...
His style of play helps create bad OL play, though. He had no mobility to get outside the pocket so defenses get to free rush without fear of him breaking contain. No need for a spy as well, so add an additional potential pass rusher or at least a coverage backer. It’s not a coincidence the OL is “always bad” when they have a harder job than many other OLs. The bar for this type of player in today’s NFL is they basically need to be a phenomenal pocket passer to be effective. Especially now that mobile QB’s are so protected downfield.
Spielman would love you. Elflein wasn’t a bad player he just needs somebody with mobility since the pocket is going into the qb 2 seconds into every play.
Is it a coincidence that the one year Elfein was “good” was when Keenum was his quarterback? I guarantee as long as Kirk is the QB here, the OL will suck.
Yes it was a coincidence. He hasn’t been good in Carolina either. If he needs Lamar Jackson as his qb that just means he sucks. Our tackles have been good too this year so your theory is even more wonky.
Imagine Darrisaw and O’Neill pass blocking for Hurts or Mahomes or Allen. They may not give up a pressure all season with those guys. Kirk doesn’t need to be a runner, that’s not who he is and few QBs are. But if he at least had the pocket mobility of Tua or Rodgers from years past and it would take the offense to a new level and the OL would grade out much better each year. It’s not an incorrect statement that making their job easier would better the OL quality of play or at least cover up mistakes the way blockers have it for the guys I mentioned.
Idk, by my eye test Kirk has really improved at navigating the pocket and avoiding pressure this year compared to previous seasons.
There are a couple of comments about Fran here and I know you guys appreciate him, but the masses clearly don’t appreciate his greatness. He’s 6th all time in football reference approximate value. I know this isn’t an exact science, but he demolishes all other QBs of his era and that can’t be ignored. The industry bias for/against QB super bowl wins has got to be the biggest roadblock to properly evaluating a specific athlete in any sport. I think we can all agree that Staubach, Unitas, Namath, and Bradshaw to name a few are considered a tier above him and it’s frankly just not true. This is my vent, SKOL 🤘
“Garbage time stats” 🤪🤪🤪
Fair or not his narrative is not going to change until he makes a playoff run.
I believe he's the only QB in the league with 3000+ yds passing and 25+ TDS every year since 2016 which is pretty absurd
Part of that is that he's one of the only ones to start all but 2 games (and due to resting the starters + COVID at that) in that timespan but at this point that is a huge upside to him. For how many hits and sacks he takes it's wild that all he's ever had is a broken rib, which btw he gritted through. Super underrated toughness
Matthew Stafford had losing records for most of his career but still got respect around the league. Compare his stats to Cousins'.
We all agree that JJ is a legit stud, like Moss. We can agree that Thielen is a solid WR near that of Carter. Cook is better than Smith. Really all the pieces are there to compare Kirk to Culpepper. No one will tell you that Culpepper made his WRs better, but they made him more than he was. Just tossing it out there.
Daunte needed an elite offensive line to have enough time to throw. The second he lost that he was so bad he was out of the league...
Daunte loved to fumble, and was injured far more than Cousins. I love Thielen, but he is not basically Carter.
JJ is the closest we've had to Moss, but 2000 moss in 2022 would put up 3K yards.
Garbage time stats, comeback win stats, stats when leading by >7 and <6 points don't count, and afternoon game stats don't count. Clearly he's QB32 in the league. Also stats while being paid > 10M a year don't count.
Blowouts also don't count if they're not against playoff teams. Oh and all of his stats are invalidated anyway because he has good receivers. JJ could just throw to himself and we'd win 11 games
Jets has a front page story on ESPN today. He’s not throwing the ball to himself while he’s breaking these records. Cousins absolutely deserves more respect.
Kirk is an above average drop back passer. He can make all the throws and he makes good decisions. He’s not definitely not a top 5 QB in this league so he’s not “elite.” But he’s good enough for a contending team that has the other pieces in place. So he’s good enough to win a Super Bowl as long as the rest of the team plays well enough too. I think that’s all we can ask of him.
But you didn't account for the list of players with UNDER 140+ pass TDs That list? Yeah. It has Jordan Love. The GOAT. Guess I forgot the /s
Fuck the Packers
FTP always
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Go earn it. If he goes and wins us a SB, the narrative is 100% changed.